Affirmative Action for College? | Regents of the University of California v. Bakke

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In episode 45 of Supreme Court Briefs, a man claims to be reverse discriminated against when he applies for UC Davis Medical School. Does affirmative action go against the Constitution? #supremecourtbriefs #apgov #affirmativeaction
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Allan Bakke , a 33-year old man of European origin, wants to be a doctor, and applies to various medical schools. Bakke was an accomplished NASA engineer and Marine Corps veteran who served in Vietnam. He had always done well in school and scored well on the Medical College Admissions Test, or MCAT. Despite all this, all 12 medical schools he applied to rejected him.
One of those schools that rejected his admission was the University of California at Davis. Bakke applied there in 1973, and the university committee gave him 468 points out of 500 on their rating scale. A 470 automatically got you in, by the way. Dr. Theodore West, who interviewed Bakke, said he was “a well-qualified candidate for admission whose main hardship is the unavoidable fact that he is now 33.” Dr. West recommended him.
Yeah, despite that, Bakke was rejected. He complained to Dr. George Lowrey, the chairman of the admissions committee at the medical school. Lowrey directed him to Assistant Dean Peter Storandt, who probably made the mistake of telling Bakke essentially “yeah, buddy, you were close. You should apply again, and if you don’t get in after the second time, maybe consider suing the college.” Yeah later Storandt likely was fired due to that.
So Bakke applied again. And UC Davis rejected him again. In addition, at the time Bakke was rejected, the school had a special admission program, which was basically an affirmative action quota system. Affirmative action, aka positive discrimination, means favoring folks belonging to groups previously discriminated against. And of course the United States had a long history of discriminating against ethnic minorities. The UC Davis med school automatically held 16 spots for each new class of 100 for “qualified” minorities. This meant that several students with considerably lower academic scores than Bakke were admitted due to being a minority.
On June 20, 1974, Bakke sued the Regents of the University of California, which was the group that supervised UC Davis. It went through the Superior Court of California in Yolo County. Bakke argued that the special admission program for minorities at UC Davis went against the Civil Rights Act. Specifically, Title 6, which said there should not be discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin in any program or activity that gets money from the federal government. UC Davis’s legal team argued that Bakke wouldn’t have been admitted to the medical school even if the special admission program for minorities didn’t exist.

[@iammrbeat]

Update: This case has been overturned by Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard My book about everything you need to know about the Supreme Court is now available! Amazon: amzn.to/3Jj3ZnS Bookshop (a collection of indie publishers): bookshop.org/books/the-power-of-and-frustration-with-our-supreme-court-100-supreme-court-cases-you-should-know-about-with-mr-beat/9781684810680 Barnes and Noble: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-power-of-our-supreme-court-matt-beat/1142323504?ean=9781684810680 Amazon UK: www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=the+power+of+our+supreme+court&crid=3R59T7TQ6WKI3&sprefix=the+power+of+our+supreme+courth%2Caps%2C381&ref=nb_sb_noss Mango: mango.bz/books/the-power-of-our-supreme-court-by-matt-beat-2523-b Target: www.target.com/p/the-power-of-our-supreme-court-by-matt-beat-paperback/-/A-86273023 Walmart: www.walmart.com/ip/The-Power-of-Our-Supreme-Court-How-the-Supreme-Court-Cases-Shape-Democracy-Paperback-9781684810680/688487495 Chapters Indigo: www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/the-power-of-our-supreme/9781684810680-item.html?ikwid=The+Power+of+Our+Supreme+Court&ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=0#algoliaQueryId=eab3e89ad34051a62471614d72966b7e

[@NewDealChief]

Was it really overturned? The Bakke case is so confusing that idk if it was overturned or affirmed.

[@UnitedStatesExplained]

@@NewDealChief TECHNICALLY it has been abrogated not overturned, but yes.

[@raymondluxuryacht86]

I wonder if anyone on the UC Davis side at any point said "Guys, this isn't worth all the hassle, let's just let the guy in."

[@iammrbeat]

Surely they did. I thought the exact same thing. Other organizations did join the fight on their side, though.

[@lightingbolt85]

That could establish a precedent of applicants suing the school to get in, however.

[@mrrogersrabbit]

Capable of repetitive yet evading review?

[@-haclong2366]

@@lightingbolt85 If you're qualified you should, at least by a government backed school.

[@missylks1239]

@@-haclong2366 No. Not when everyone else who applies is “qualified”.

[@tellthemborissentyou]

Mr Beat you should sell headphones in your merch shop. You could call them "Dre's by Mr Beat"

[@iammrbeat]

Holy crap. That's a genius idea.

[@helcurt2509]

Not possible, he can be sued under trademarks law.

[@samaustin8690]

@@ruttedpanda7884 Perhaps

[@pillmuncher67]

Affirmative Action is unjust! College admission should solely be determined by merit! Like by the skill of the applicant's parents at writing checks, no?

[@iammrbeat]

Oh snap

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

👏

[@pillmuncher67]

@@aintnoslice3422 You obviously didn't get the joke, so let me explain it to you: First, I pretended to take a position that I, in fact, do not really take, then I closed sarcastically with a reference to the scandal where celebrities Felicity Huffman, the Aunt Becky actress and others bribed their stupid kids way into elite colleges, thereby inverting the narrative to a place the reader didn't expect. Comedians call this technique The Old Switcheroo. Gee, when one has to explain a joke, it's not even funny anymore.

[@aintnoslice3422]

@@pillmuncher67 tbh, i stopped reading after the first 2 sentences and just assumed how it ended. my bad.

[@ryanjapan3113]

pillmuncher67 but due to white peoples discrimination of minorities means that white propel are generally richer and therefore can afford better education making it more likely they get into good collages if African Americans fad this too they world get in more

[@hanseinarfuglum8858]

I could never have taken the burden of attending school after having the supreme court let me in. God I would have flunked out just from pressure of public awareness.

[@ECKohns]

If that happened. They would have then used it as proof that the verdict of the lawsuit was wrong.

[@XchampionXFTW]

@ECKohns this comment's complete lack of engagement and thumbs up is weird to me. You're correct, and that's immensely unfortunate. It's a very disheartening reality

[@BlueDragon257257]

I’m a minority and in my opinion we should get the same rights everyone else. We shouldn’t be able to get jobs, universities, etc just for our race. However that being said, a study in the US showed that people with more European surnames, especially of German or English origin, seem to be more likely to be accepted universities (without affirmative action). But I’m not sure about how good the study is or the situation in America as I don’t live there.

[@iammrbeat]

I have heard of that study. Yeah, I wish there was a better way to eliminate bias altogether when looking at college admissions.

[@TTCanadaJapan]

Applications should be anonymous

[@spideraxis]

That's all a myth. White privilege is a fairy tale, and being non-White gives an applicant a political advantage. The leftist media doesn't tell you that.

[@krystalmadness5675]

PLEASE DO MORE SUPREME COURT BRIEFS PLEASE & THANK YOU

[@iammrbeat]

Right on. I shall try. :)

I like how simple the editing is.

[@iammrbeat]

Compliment or passive aggressive criticism? lol

[@iammrbeat]

Awesome :)

[@infamousking5568]

So glad I found this channel. If there is anything I miss from being in school, it's history class. I have binged all your supreme court briefs and presidential election videoes over the last week or so and even now I feel like I'm learning stuff I didn't get to learn in school.

[@iammrbeat]

Well welcome aboard. I'm glad you found me! :)

[@ricky99la]

As a minority, I have never been a fan of affirmative action. I want to believe I got into the school of my choice, not because the color of my skin, but because I worked hard and even my spot fairly.

[@iammrbeat]

I totally understand that sentiment

[@aintnoslice3422]

Do you think the vast majority of minorities start off on the same economic footing and with the same opportunities as white students? Do you not think 400+ years of racism and discrimination hasn't had an enormous structural impact on inequality between the races in this country? Neither the current system, nor the one in the 70s, favoured minority students even with affirmative action (especially when at least a significant minority of spaces where filled y [white] alumni descendents and the children of rich [white] parents who could get in, no merit required.

[@p07a]

Ain't no Slice That's what I thought as well. Certainly there's the feeling of "this feels wrong because a person with lesser merit is accepted" but then there's also the question of why this "lesser merit" comes to be. And that latter discourse quickly gets into the discovery of economic disparity. I thought a further counterpoint might be: what about white people with economic disadvantages? I thought that might be served as a question to how these colleges define "minorities". I don't think I'd want to see two equally economically disadvantaged white and colored people being treated unequally. But that's not the case here... If Bakke applied for those schools many times, he surely had some economical advantage.

[@s.n.9485]

White women are the #1 recipient of affirmative action. Not just in college, but in public and private employment as well.

[@collinyan7467]

thank you

[@benjaminglazer7217]

I swear you release these videos as I’m going into the units for AP gov. Perfect timing.

[@iammrbeat]

Well glad that works out. :) I don't even teach AP Gov, surprisingly.

[@iammrbeat]

"First" Edutuber collaboration: kzbin.info/aero/PLlt1h57yoMAFO4xgAMh-_t6OW_fV8L-MD

[@teddyboragina6437]

"I'm not going to go through each decision". why the heck not tbh!? like, thats what I come to you for!

[@iammrbeat]

@@teddyboragina6437 But if I was getting bored with it, surely you would, too. :)

[@michealjacksonsinnocent2488]

Buffalo and rockchester compared?

[@iammrbeat]

Are you from New York?

[@michealjacksonsinnocent2488]

Mr. Beat, no just a bills fan

[@miz_logo_lee]

Thanks for posting this. My parents worked for the UC system and this was heavily reported back in the day but I had forgotten the details.

[@abhisheksamanta1]

Yay!! Another brief video. Thanks Mr. Beat. Okay, now let me watch it.

[@abhisheksamanta1]

Oh boy!! What a relevant video. This topic will never die, and will always remain relevant..good one Mr. Beat.

[@iammrbeat]

@@abhisheksamanta1 Thanks so much. Yeah affirmative action has fascinated me for a long time.

[@ruelez]

Mr Beat ready to do the Fair Admission vs Harvard followup case?

[@connor981]

Grutter vs bollinger might be a good choice for next time

[@JawadPullin]

2 years later, I think it’s about time we get that Grutter video wouldn’t ya say?

[@borgcube8349]

YOLO COUNTY!!!!

[@iammrbeat]

You Only Live Once County.

[@MrUltrapresident]

YOLOOOOOO

[@tyhatch3771]

The argument that I keep hearing for affirmative action is that "some racial groups are more economically disadvantaged." Then why don't we make quotas based on household income instead of race???????

[@LOLquendoTV]

Hmm, I dont know many comment sections on youtube that could have a sober and rational discussion on the issue, but this one might just be it

[@saskcom2400]

Nope Edit: got a heart from Mr. Beat. Thank you man.

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

This is one of the best rational channels there is. If you want to find rational, non-personal discussion and debate, this would be it.

[@iammrbeat]

My regular viewers are undoubtedly informed and rational thinkers. However, over time I get some pretty ignorant comments from non-subscribers..

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

@@iammrbeat I think the reason we get rational people is this channel isn't really political, just about politics.

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

Ha! I had an arguement with a guy that was kinda mad at me, then said I was triggered. Guess no comment section can have only civil discussions.

[@siamiam]

ive never been a supporter for affirmative action, i prefer to have the the right person for the position based on qualification. coming from a asian mixed back ground working harder towards one goal was something taught by family and the community . i have had and known family and friends who have had issues getting in to schools and jobs even though they were more the qualified i do not have much of a chance getting hired by google even if i had the qualifications O_O i was going to shorten affirmative action to AA but that sounds like alcoholics anonymous :P great video as always

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. BUT WHERE ARE THE PUNS? Just kidding. :) But yeah, have you been following this current Harvard case at all?

[@kristianperez4108]

I also disagree, businesses shouldn't be forced to hire someone over somebody more qualified,

[@strider04]

@@kristianperez4108 I get forced but businesses shouldn't be forced to hire the under qualified as that is just stupid businesses should always want to hire the most qualified so I dont know why they need to be forced to do that

[@elvispelvis1752]

A company like Google would see value in more than simple merit. Sure, if you can do X, Y, and Z, is important, but there's value in having a plural community that has a more diverse module of thinking. Google is a company that wants to propagate across the world with a community that understands the nuances of the world.

[@1funnygame]

@@elvispelvis1752 that's totally false, race does not affect how somebody thinks, if Google wanted people who think a certain way or understand a certain culture for specific business reasons i could understand those criteria, but they use race, which doesn't indicate anything other than the skin of the person applying

[@MrVedude]

Please do Timbs v. Indiana.

[@iammrbeat]

Talk about recent history lol. Yeah, that's a great case and certainly a future video.

[@HorrorMetalDnD]

Someone should cover it. Most media sources seem to have ignored the case, despite how important it is. Then again, civil asset forfeiture seldom gets reported on anyway.

[@JKB-qp6sf]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/maubi2l3rLChh9E

[@iammrbeat]

Holy crap, I didn't know about that channel

[@maqclark]

Why did Bakke only sue Davis when none of the other 12 schools admitted him either? Was Davis the only with a quota program?

[@chaimmarks2663]

I don't have a definitive answer, I assume it is because of age restrictions "Bakke had applied first to the University of Southern California and Northwestern University, in 1972, and both rejected him, making a point of his age, with Northwestern writing that it was above their limit.[20] Medical schools at the time openly practiced age discrimination." taken from Wikipedia. while I believe he only reapplied to one medical school in 1974, which was UC Davis and during that application cycle he sued the school

[@jamessheerin121]

The way mister beat pronounces origin kills me inside

[@iammrbeat]

lol my wife said the same thing. Please join me on a movement to pronounce origin in a different way. Tell all your friends.

[@shannonbeat]

James Sheerin Me too! I was trying to get him to say it the right way but I didn’t win.

[@MasterWooten]

Racial quotas is a lazy way of doing it anyways. They may consider race but definitely not simply put a quota in or allow less qualified minorities to go. That is crazy!

[@marioluigijam3612]

Thanks For Making This Video Mr.Beat. This helps a ton for an assignment I am working on.

[@kale8133]

I'm learning this is school and I think it's such an interesting debate. However, I think that the debate should be reworded. As of now, there's either pro-affirmative action and anti-affirmative action people. The argument is whether race should be considered or not be considered. I think that rather, the debate should be how affirmative action is implemented. In order to make a more meritocratic society, we have to acknowledge that some people have advantages over others. Some kids in low income neighborhoods have to work full time jobs to support their family while other kids' parents have enough money to hire private tutors and whatnot. Some kids have to spend four hours on a day bussing to school while others have parent's that can drive them to school in 10 minutes. To say that both of these kids are equal and should be judged as such is a complete atrocity and completely unfair. So affirmative action has to be considered (in my opinion) and the real question is, how should affirmative action be implemented. Quota based affirmative action (as seen in the video) is outlawed, but goal based affirmative action is still legal. Goals should be set so all people have a more equal chance to go to a good college. The problem that I find so troubling when it comes to this debate is that privilege is such a subjective thing that's so hard to quantify. I'm curious to hear anyone's opinion on how affirmative action should be implemented (or change my mind and show me it shouldn't be implemented).

[@yuiop6611]

THIS!!!

[@JR-kw3be]

I agree we need to have programs to help the poor out of poverty. But try telling someone who was rejected for college that the reason she’s not getting in is because their spot was taken by someone who scored lower on tests.

[@kale8133]

@@JR-kw3be This is another big issue. Tests are not completely fair and meritocratic in the first place because everyone isn't given the same resources needed to succeed on tests. If one student has access to a private tutor, is in a safe neighborhood near their school, has the financial capability to focus solely on school (and not have to work a job on the side to support a family), etc. while another person doesn't, there's no doubt they'd likely get a higher score. In addition, sat tests have been shown to be problematic at actually assessing intelligence, since a lot of the sat tests proper test taking technique and semantics and not the subjects themselves. While it can be frustrating for those that score high on tests and still get rejected by top schools in favor of lower scoring students, many factors should be considered besides test scores. Test scores should certainly be considered, but it's only one part of the picture.

[@JR-kw3be]

@@kale8133 if all schools were completely private they should be allowed to do whatever they want. The problem is that we want the government to be involved in everything and they nearly always screw it up. If it were up to me there wouldn’t be any public schools.

[@kale8133]

@@JR-kw3be If all schools were private, the vast majority of Americans would not be able to afford higher education, which would only further wealth inequality.

[@williamhild1793]

The next time there is a vacancy on the U S Supreme Court, I hope that Mr. Beat is nominated and confirmed. At least we know we would have one level-headed, fact-based, pragmatic mind on the court without a hidden agenda. How about it, Mr. Beat? Or should I say Future-Justice Beat?

[@iammrbeat]

LOL that'll be the day. But those are mighty kind words. :)

[@alexkrakowski8597]

This would probably happen if Mr.Beat started complimenting Trump on Twitter.

[@friendlyman_]

Got some bad news.

[@StefanMilo]

Controversial topic but great video as always! I'm not sure about having a quota but I do believe that it's important to have some form of affirmative action, not everyone has rich parents who can bribe the admissions board. For example, a child who got a "B" grade but is from a poor or troubled background should be given a leg up. If they can get that grade with all the difficulties in their life, they'd probably excel given a fair opportunity. After all colleges are supposed to look at the big picture and the character of the candidate right? That's why they care so much about extra curricular activities.

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

Yes! Backround is what AA should be for! I agree that AA for economic reasons is good, just not race.

[@iammrbeat]

You make an excellent point. It's quite amazing how some of my students in real life have been able to achieve greatness at school despite having a really rough home life. Socioeconomic AA makes the most sense to me, as long as it is carefully applied and enforced.

[@StefanMilo]

@@iammrbeat Yeah I'd agree, and that's not to say that race can't be considered within that, or that it wouldn't help minorities.

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

@@StefanMilo For me, it would half to be for specific reasons that race had to do with their circumstance, such as a kid lived in an african american area of a city, which had worse schooling, or that a white kid lived in a school distict with many rich white kids that caused the school to be better funded or equipped with technology or resources. If two kids, an african american and a white kid, bith had extremely similar socioeconomic statuses, school funding and equipment, and home life, then I don't see why race would even be a factor.

[@hedgehogcuber6848]

Also, if an african american kid lived in a rich community with good schooling, and a white kid lived in a poor community with less funding and resources, then the white kid I think should be chosen due to background.

[@aryotec]

How can you say these long sentences without gasping for air Mr.Beast?

[@iammrbeat]

The magic of audio editing.

[@siamiam]

@@iammrbeat or secretly a deep sea diving treasure hunter :O

[@leebarnathan4728]

Time for an update, given the Supreme Court decision on June 29, 2023.

[@moonman239]

Why not just offer assistance to those who are less qualified, so that they can become qualified?

[@tombrown1898]

Man, do I remember this one! I worked for an old-line insurance company that had been sued for racial discrimination. My boss, a lawyer, was satisfied with the outcome. I remember him sitting in his office reading all the Supreme Court opinions. Took him a while to get them; no Internet then!

[@ScienceIRL]

Woah great video! Tricky topic but super thorough and objective explanation, I learned a lot!

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks so much. I like what you are doing with your channel. This collab finally gave me an excuse to check it out!

[@aaronbradley3232]

I agree that informative action is b******* and this is the first video that I enjoyed in a while I mean you were sleeping man you were like my favorite Channel on KZbin and your presidential election series is still one of the greatest pieces on KZbin I don't care what anyone says about you

[@iammrbeat]

Well glad you liked the video :)

[@snowvixen1000]

Love your videos, I am currently taking a constitutional law clas that is going very good so far.

[@iammrbeat]

That was obviously one of my favorite classes I took as an undergrad. Thanks for the kind words. :)

[@sylvio1687]

i completely agree . the fact that Bakke would've been rejected just because of his skin color is truly wrong

[@yuiop6611]

Or maybe he wasn’t as qualified as his white, black, asian, male, female, gay, straight, etc. peers.

[@sidi8985]

@@yuiop6611 he was more qualified than some black peers that were accepted despite having lower scores, go do your research first.

[@UndertakerU2ber]

@@yuiop6611 Which surgeon would you prefer? One that shows that they’re amongst the best by their results, or one that was scooted on through school based on their self-reported ethnicity and barely graduated with a 2.5 GPA? Let’s make it more interesting. What if the surgeon that proved themselves to be amongst the best was Ben Carson (a black man) while the surgeon with half-*ssed scores was Elizabeth Warren that got free passes after claiming she had Native American ancestry without any proof?

[@nathancowie2251]

@@sidi8985 do you have ears? Even if the affirmative action program was not in place, Bakke's score would have been too low to enter. Man was just bitter.

[@sidi8985]

@@nathancowie2251 the problem was that his black peers got in because of the program despite having scores significantly lower than him

[@KrazeElk]

Tell this to Harvard.

[@DSMWannabeLinguist]

(quietly visits California solely for a selfie with multiple Yolo County signs)

[@x_8643]

"Positive discrimination" is an oxymoron

[@smartyyoung7319]

Discrimination just means treating people different based on some sort of criteria.

[@Pure_Havoc]

discrimination doesnt mean racism. we're also talking about an institutions that positively favor people with higher socioeconomic standing versus those of lower standing who were never given the same opportunity.

[@kelvindoang1228]

@@smartyyoung7319 discrimination mean treating people different in NEGATIVE way. there is no positif discrimination. therefore there is "affermative action"

[@anonymoususer638]

Whatever one person gains through discrimination, someone else must lose. Therefore it still discriminates against people.

[@Gallalad1]

Mr Beat could you possibly one day explain the process of "petitioning the supreme court". Like I doubt some lawyer just walks in and says "my client has been wronged, take the case please". Does a given case have to go through a number of courts? Etc etc

[@iammrbeat]

I have a video planned where I explain the court system, and that's certainly something I can address in it.

[@Gallalad1]

@@iammrbeat thank you! It's something that often gets mentioned but the actual process seems .. odd, like in some trials it seems like they're barely out of the local court before they're in the supreme court yet others it seems to go to every court it possibly can first

[@alexkrakowski8597]

I’m just glad Bakke got to go to Med school.

[@ThamizhanDaa1]

I'm Asian American and although I don't like affirmative action, I think it should be based on background rather than slim I color. I know a lot of white people that have gone through tough childhoods and families and tried to succeed despite that; and I know many black people that didn't have much obstacles to succeed. It can definitely change a person's life if they can get a huge opportunity when they are disadvantaged, whereas for already privileged people, they wouldn't have a problem finding another opportunity. For example, most Asian Americans I know would have numerous other good colleges they could choose from if they don't get into Harvard, but for many disadvantaged kids, they only had enough money to apply to one good school... It's very complicated

[@Youneedalex]

Book of Stories Asians always preferred white people than blacks, they discriminated black people in their countries than whites, and they prefer white asian mixed babies that white black mixed ones

[@antargaming1619]

Affirmative action should be based on your background(like if you were raised in a poorer area with worse schools) instead of skin color, race, or sex. There are plenty of rich minorities and rich women who benefit from affirmative action when they need it the least.

[@unnamed4063]

no. there should be absolutely none of it. you can't take away opportunities from someone who is more qualified unjustly. it should just be about who is more qualified.

[@sawderf741]

@@unnamed4063 I think it's better to have it based on real life circumstances instead of immutable traits.

[@Compucles]

@@sawderf741 Real life circumstances don't matter if you can't actually do the job as well as someone else. If you can't go to college just because you can't afford it even with a student loan and aren't brilliant enough to get a full-ride scholarship, that sucks, but it's just the way it is. I still don't want you doing a job for me that really needs someone with a college education no matter how smart or hard working you are just because you happen to be a minority.

[@HistoryNerd808]

I disagree with the case and not just because it's racist against whites. AA basically says to minorities, "we don't think you're good enough to get in on your own merits so you need help from the government." "The soft bigotry of low expectations" as it's been called, don't know who coined that though.

[@jarodh-m6099]

Measures of merit, as we have seen from the current admissions scandal, can be influenced by financial and social advantages, positive discrimination acknowledges that student will equal ability to achieve in rigorous programs may not have the standard documented credentials as more privileged candidates.

[@iammrbeat]

Interesting. I think the way AA is applied is the most important part. It can easily be a slippery slope that's open to interpretation. As Jaron mentioned, I do believe there is more socioeconomic systematic discrimination as opposed to strictly discrimination based on ethnic background these days. It's also worth noting that AA, most would argue, was meant to be a temporary fix for equal opportunity, or at least should constantly evolve based on how society changes.

[@HistoryNerd808]

@@jarodh-m6099 Then the merit-based system needs to be reformed. It does not mean that race should play a role. Race-based admissions did not stop the recent events either. There needs to be an equal playing field and AA does not give that, it's letting things outside of people's control affect who gets in which is the very problem that AA was intended to address. And as I mentioned, it's racist all-around not just against whites but even still, why should I as a white man be punished because my ancestors were assholes and oppressed an entire race of people? I'm 23 so not much older than the people getting hurt by this and regardless, it's hurting anybody who succeeds. For example, the Asian population on college campuses has been wrecked by this.

[@HistoryNerd808]

@@iammrbeat Yeah, if it was based on economic standing, I would not have an issue with it but using race as an element of admissions is blatantly unconstitutional, imo.

[@quin598]

What a coincidence, I visit UC Davis for something called "Aggie day" about a week ago then I see this

[@legionoffollowers6843]

I prefer a system that ensures anybody gets a fair chance for greater success in life, rather than a one that enforces everyone to be equal.

[@Compucles]

Sure, but in the absence of the first system (which is practically impossible), the second system is still very important.

[@cerebros3671]

I personally am not a fan of Affirmative Action, but I can see why people are.

[@AdamSmith-gs2dv]

By people you mean socialists because that's who's in favor of affirmative action

[@ThatGamingCh4nnel]

@@AdamSmith-gs2dv do you know what a socialist ideology even is ?

[@vaughnmiller185]

Once saw a documentary about Bekke V. Regents, in which a Black female M.D. who had higher MCAT scores than Bakke was turned down for admission along with several other minorities who had scored better than he had. She wondered why he couldn't have simply sought admission and internships/residencies further afield from where he lived as she had to do. Many U.S. medical school students over the last several decades attend universities outside of America because of program impaction and cost. I also knew students who attended Cal (before Affirmative action was ended in '96) that claimed white male students who did not know them, would approach them and state that they were only admitted because they were minorities. They never demanded to know from these men, how many of them were admitted because their fathers were investment bakers or corporate lawyers, or their families had benefited from generations of decently funded public or private school systems that minority students who had tested well and performed well in secondary and tertiary education never had access to?

[@whyme943]

Wonder why UC Davis didn’t bring this up in their defence.

[@Whatever-u5w]

Whats the name of this documentary?

[@GynxShinx]

I have no problem with defering to the person that worked harder from being oppressed in cases where the candidates are otherwise identical. Anything more would need quite the good argument to convince me.

[@JKB-qp6sf]

Great Video ( Always) Please do "Castle Rock v. Gonzales"

[@iammrbeat]

Right on and thank you

[@JKB-qp6sf]

Mr. Beat You're Welcome 😊

[@havehope646]

Who is after after the Supreme Court is arguing affirmative action

[@brianjonker510]

HAHA California on Election day 2020 specifically passed a proposition to do away with all affirmative action.

[@benjijacobs2049]

The way I personally see it, is that a numerical quota is a problem, it allows for reverse discrimination of race, but simply having race as ONE factor of others like GPA and SAT scores and those sorts of things having more weight in the process than extra curriculars and race, though this is at least my opinion

[@MitzvosGolem1]

People criticize affirmative action yet we recently see rich people can biy their way in regardless of their scores.

[@geophph4324]

And then we criticize both

[@yuiop6611]

@@geophph4324. Lol. All I see is hateful entitled racist white folk targeting blacks for getting into elite schools when they aren’t even the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action.

[@thndr_5468]

Aa of any kind is gross to me. Race doesn't matter you just need to be qualified.

[@Ember-Rodriguez]

I think in general affirmative action and in general how college/universities are setup is quite poorly. We have a lot of programs whose principle is to help underprivileged groups get into higher education but the problem is that they are easy to abuse. In my class alone I can give two good examples: One person got a scholarship for being trans and writing a good essay on how its made their life harder (came out and realized they weren't actually trans within 2 years), a classmate found out their step dad was born on a reservation and so they were able to take a native american scholarship despite being 100% white and never having set foot in a reservation themselves. Meanwhile those who deserved it demographically and by educational merit were cheated out of financial support. Honestly even as someone who could of benefited greatly from affirmative action (I got a good job right out of high school so didn't go to college) I would rather just have it all be merit based and focus on college cheaper for everyone.

[@Kenny-hr5wl]

Race and gender should not be a consideration for college admission or employment.

[@ohlael]

okay I knew better than to go through the comments. clearly people don’t understand AA and comment before bothering to do any research 😭

[@playbeatcompletecompete9849]

Affirmative Action, aka legal racism.

[@ryanjapan3113]

There’s been talk about compensation for slavery and personality affirmative action seems like a good compensation to me because money can’t buy you a higher job or the skills to get to the collage needed for it

[@franz-georgleopold-pagel3018]

Can you tell a bit more about the way the SCOTUS cames to its decisions? How it decides which cases to look into? How it comes to decisions? And how to work with plurality opinions (as you mentioned)? Might become more important do to the partisianship right now?!

[@alonkatz4633]

Well R.I.P.

[@MasterWooten]

At 4:53 YES on both counts irrespective of the intention of what UC Davis wanted to do, discrimination as we know today does not require intention to be equally effective and harmful.

[@wildfire9280]

McClesky v. Kemp ruled that it does, though Powell later reneged his verdict there.

[@SciencewithSteph]

good video!

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks :D

[@behrensf84]

Would have been better to put every qualified candidate in a lottery...

[@iammrbeat]

Or accept them all?

[@behrensf84]

Assuming there is not spots for everyone.... it should be a system where everyone that clears a threshold gets put in a lottery.... that would be fair...

[@naintaradevraj7875]

Calvin Coolidge looks like every substitute teacher ever

[@TBONESIDEOFLIFE]

This defiantly piqued my interest here. thank you, sir!

[@iammrbeat]

Glad you got into it. :)

[@deshawnjackson7794]

Bro I love your videos I wish you were my teacher back in high school

[@lexscarlet]

YOLO county I can't handle that

[@lucascramer8264]

Ayyeee I live in Rochester where mayo is

[@HistoryNerd808]

Are you planning on doing the Youngstown Steel Seizure case? It would be perfect, considering that the wall emergency declaration will be going to the courts pretty soon. I also know that you're a big Truman fan

[@iammrbeat]

I have Patreon requested suggestions to get to first, but that's a dang good suggestion.

[@HistoryNerd808]

@@iammrbeat Gotcha. I know I had suggested it before and you had mentioned that you had put it on your list but I don't know how long that list is lol and I don't have a Patreon so I know that you needed to get to theirs first

[@davestrasburg408]

l am fanatically opposed to any discrimination on basis of skin color, ethnic group, geographic origin, or religion. This very much includes the today much too popular "affirmative action," which is, simply put, horrific racism against white folks, and Jews. The only qualifications needed must be academic; the previous racist treatment of a group does not - l repeat, not - constitute an excuse for "positive discrimination" in favor of that group. The admissions policy must be entirely "colorblind."

[@danrichards9516]

4:10 - SCOTUS sounds like Butthead

[@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty]

Frankly there's an even better, more refined version of Affirmative Action that exists without taking ethnicity into account. It's called the Adversity Index, measuring how much adversity & difficulty a person has had in achieving their education. It looks at their finances, poverty level, local crime rate, quality of schools, and other challenges a student has had to face into to achieve their academic goals. Many ethnic minorities face greater challenges than whites when achieving their academic goals due to these reasons and more. Many black students tend to be poorer than white students, thus the Adversity Index would take that into account when admitting those students.

[@lStranger]

Ironic how the only Justice to vote against Bakke was named White.

[@rachelthompson8760]

Hmmm. This is a tough one.

[@sagesheahan6732]

I got a Supreme Court case for you that you could do a few videos on. Clinton vs The City of New York, and line-item vetos.

[@x-90]

I hate the ruling of affirmative action I think sex race and whatever should be removed when accepting students. They should go in blind so that the people they accept all had a fair chance

[@PunmasterSTP]

Just imagine what cases are going to show up in the future based on how things in California and the rest of the country are going.

[@Phlegethon]

There’s no more debate

[@ashtoncollins868]

President During this time: Jimmy Carter Chief Justice: Warren E. Burger Argued October 12, 1977 Decided June 28, 1978 Cases Durations: 259 Days Decision: 8-1 in favor of Bakke (White for regents.) Decision 2: 5-4 in favor of Bakke

[@harrychristofi6725]

Mr. Beat, I do think we should have affirmative action considering the fact that minorities have an institutional disadvantage sometimes and because our country has a history of racism. Don’t get me wrong I don’t hate white people obviously (I’m half Greek and half Latino Which makes me half white) but you gotta admit, white people did give minorities, women and LGBT people a lot of shit for who they are historically, That’s why I support affirmative action.

[@iammrbeat]

That makes sense

[@harrychristofi6725]

+Mr. Beat Thanks MB you’re the man lol

[@Capslacka]

Many were prejudiced against Italian immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s, albeit more likely due to their religion rather than skin color. In fact, there used to be a specifically anti-italian branch of the KKK close to where I live. Do italian descendants deserve the same treatment by affirmative action as other minority groups today? The fact is that many many groups have been discriminated against during US History for many reasons. My opinion based on that fact is that race is generally a poor way to decide on who should receive benefit with affirmative action. If anything, I think affirmative action should be decided upon by each specific person's specific situation or nothing at all

[@creativename7230]

Given this might be overturned soon this video might need to be updated

[@gFamWeb]

I know this is an older video, but I think affirmative action is interesting when viewed through a societal lens than an individual lens. Those who are part of minorities groups are often less able to access high-quality education and resources to make themselves more qualified candidates. From a mathematical perspective, if one group is behind, they'll need to go faster than the group ahead in order to catch up. Now is affirmative action the best way to help them go faster? Maybe, maybe not.

[@defaultusername1145]

Why should 2 people in the same economic standing be prioritized separately

[@ehanoldaccount5893]

Couldn’t he claim affirmative action for his age or veteran status?

[@Floof_Factory]

I see what affirmative action is trying to do. It's nice but it isnt right to me. I think it's a perversion of what civil rights stood for. We need to make the systems as fair as possible

[@yuiop6611]

Yes. Continue to let disadvantaged people suffer and let the ones that were able to build generational wealth take all the spots their parents bought.

[@Floof_Factory]

@@yuiop6611 as an asian immigrant, there are plenty of asians who come over from poverty stricen countries and they have points reduced on their college applications just for being Asian. Its as if their hard work meant nothing. I think in California asian is no longer considered a minority group now. If you study harder than everyone else, you should be rewarded for it. And we shouldnt be giving high credentials to people who aren't qualified to be there. We need doctors who are the best trained, A students, maybe B students, but not C students who were given the position over a B student just for the color of their skin. Thats racist. Even if they have the same grade, race should not be the deciding factor, it should be like best written common app essay or best experiences like relevant internships. And if its neck and neck, flip a coin or something.. Its not about what doesn't hurt your feelings, its about whats fair. Martin luther King said it best. Like people should not be treated by the color of their skin but by their character

[@josephfogarty6902]

@@yuiop6611 here’s a better idea. Wanna hear it? *hire/accept people to jobs/universities according to their merit, skill and character and look at NOTHING else*

[@yuiop6611]

@@josephfogarty6902. An that’s what affirmative action does. Contrary to your ignorance, no one is selected into a school solely based on the color of their skin, gender, sexuality, disability, etc. Those applying to elite universities still have to meet the minimal requirements. I know these facts do not fit your racist preconceived notions that affirmative action only benefits ignorant black people who are under qualified yet still get accepted into these schools. And if you only looked at the qualities you just mentioned then your student body would essentially be homogeneous since white and asian applicants were able to have access to the wealth and resources that would make them a stronger applicant. That would be unappealing to outsiders and future applicants, especially to POC. Sorry not sorry you must have gotten rejected from a school or job because you are a mediocre, hateful, rude, boring ignoramus and attempt to blame your failure on minority groups, specifically black people :)

[@yuiop6611]

@@Floof_Factory. Majority of Asians that immigrate to the US already have degrees and are financially stable enough to make such a move. How and why would you move across half the earth with no money??? Try again.

[@justjon_6844]

Fisher v Texas maybe? 🤔

[@havehope646]

Jesus loves you ❤️

[@moddrrrusky2910]

I don’t really understand affirmative action based on race, isn’t that racist to say a minority will have a harder time getting into a school and give them preferential treatment?

[@moddrrrusky2910]

I mean, I get allowing less privileged people to get a good education but the color of your skin doesn’t have anything to do with that. Isn’t this like preschool stuff?

[@internetmemeplace6886]

Time to kick this garbage precedent in the trash along with roe vs wade even with the affirmative action hire to the highest court this year, who won't even remove herself from the case

[@freddytang2128]

As an east Asian, it boggles my mind that after centuries of racism and disadvantages, now my race puts me in same category as white people when it comes to affirmative action. now "diversity and inclusion" works against me in many situations, as if having too many Asians in Silicon Valley or Ivy League is a bad thing

[@UndertakerU2ber]

I always heard that Asian applicants are actually treated a bit worse than white ones. It’s like the schools say “Oh, there are already too many Asian-looking people coming into our school, so let’s select enough so that Asians only make up 10% of the student body then throw the rest of the Asian applications in the trash.” And the thing is, Japanese Americans did experience life altering discrimination in the US historically speaking, and frankly, they suffered even after being given $20K checks since hiring discrimination based on race was still permitted. Even under their logic of “helping the historically disenfranchised”, Japanese Americans should receive preferential treatment under affirmative action, but they don’t, and it’s because what they mean by “minority” can be more accurately described as “people you feel sorry for.” People don’t feel sorry for Asians, even when they’re being disenfranchised today in our schools and job markets. They’re seen as smart, financially stable, accomplished, etc. A person who is black or Native American is viewed as victims of enslavement, kidnapping, theft, etc. due to how HARD our education system pushed to drill kids’ heads with only those narratives in a severely one sided manner. For the record, I’m white and I’m disgusted at how Asians are treated like crap by being held to a higher standard, and basically get told by college admissions “Wow, you’re Asian and you’re only above average in math compared to the total population? I thought you Asians were usually geniuses at math like Einstein’s was. You must be one of the stupid ones then, hyuk hyuk hyuk!”

[@alexdostaler]

I feel like the Supreme Court got this one right, but it's not right not to give people of minority status a shot, either. It's not a cut and dry issue

[@lukedetering4490]

Ya. But there are other ways around it. For example, in Texas we have a law called the "top 10% rule" where basically if you make the top 10% GPA in your school or make a high enough SAT score in your quartile you get automatcially admitted into any public texas college besides UT. It definitely isn't perfect, but I do think it's a fair system where if you work hard enough no one can discriminate you due to your automatic admission status

[@alexdostaler]

Luke Detering I appreciate your perspective!!

[@NicklasZandeVGCP2001]

Will you ever talk about George Drouillard?

[@mathieuleader8601]

did this video come about because of the NY university cheating scandal

[@fanyfan7466]

Affirmative Action is interesting and I’m still not sure where I stand on the issue. On one hand, minorities have faced some pretty bad stuff in the us to this day but on the other there are probably better ways than specifically choosing applicants partially based on race. Idk I’m divided on this issue.

[@iammrbeat]

Me too. I think it's necessary, but it has to be carefully applied.

[@SiVlog1989]

There's bound to be quite a few people who, in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, formerly of Top Gear UK, "how hard can it be to accept students purely on merit?" I remember when I was applying for university two years ago, I applied for Brunel University in Uxbridge, West London, which is by status the highest standard of university for engineering in the UK, but was rejected. It was academic, not a pun, as I already had an offer from the university I am attending at the moment :)

[@iammrbeat]

Well sorry they rejected you. They done messed up and missed out. :(

[@SiVlog1989]

@@iammrbeat that's alright Matt, I'm not worried. The course I'm taking (Bachelor of Science (BSc) in Motorsport Technology) is based in the only national centre dedicated to Motorsport Engineering (National Centre of Motorsport Engineering, NCME) in the whole of the UK. Brunel University doesn't have anything like it, besides, one of the aspects of life I wanted from studying at university is my first taste of real independence. By being over 200 miles away from home, (in Bolton, just 10 miles north west of Manchester, compared to my home town which is 10 miles south west of London), I can establish myself as myself and get a better idea of the local area around the university. The best thing is that prices for pretty much everything is cheaper than the equivalent back home for me (an example is train tickets, it costs ~£4 for a return train ticket to Manchester from Bolton, as opposed to ~£6 for the same type of journey from my home town to London). Although my accent is noticeable to the locals, I have learned to embrace the lifestyle here. Like you said in an older video, we can all learn something new by seeing different surroundings. It is absolutely true. If I had the money, I would travel round the world and see what different people view aspects of life. Even though my family are a long way from home, it's not like they are completely out of contact as they are contactable by various means. Although it is not easy, in the words of the late JFK, I am doing this, "not because it is easy, but because it is hard," people learn more about making mistakes, than breezing through lessons. All things considered, I couldn't be happier at the moment :)

[@iammrbeat]

Well glad things worked out for you!

[@SiVlog1989]

This is one of the activities I have been involved with facebook.com/AlbatecRacing/videos/1691043777682675/ and best of all, by the end of the season, we won the British Rallycross Championship :)

[@walnuttv1999]

featured in top 10 videos of the day on walnut.tv/curious

[@GameplayBRSP]

BAKKE IS A HERO

[@unoriginalclips9923]

You can’t solve racism with more racism