IBM 5153 CGA Monitor. Teardown and restoration. Why is it making such a loud high pitch noise?

[@Epictronics1]

5160 Restoration and repair video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmKYmX99p913ZtU Suport me on patreon.com/Epictronics

[@mademedothis424]

Man, I feel like that exact list of games was installed on every single crappy office and school CGA PC in the 80s and early 90s. The nostalgia blast is strong in this one.

[@T3hBeowulf]

I first heard about the baking soda and super glue trick from Shelby at Tech Tangents. I have used it many times since then. Neat restoration video!

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you :) yeah, that is a very useful trick indeed. It has saved quite a few computers and displays for me too

[@massmike11]

As a scale modeler this trick has been around for a good twenty years.

[@fritmoule]

The "I'll figure this out later" channel...

[@nononymous]

damn, i had that "Space Commader" when i was a kid, feel weird to see it again xD

[@nicomputerservices2669]

I just had a VGA monitor from 1999 do something very similar. It hadn't been turned on in who knows how long and was concerningly noisy and I did the same thing you did, turned it off immediately, dismantled it and looked the whole thing over, I re-flowed some of the solder joints that looked a little suspect and checked some caps and then I was out of ideas. Put it all back together, turned it on and let it run, after about 2-5 minutes of running the sound was gone and it was fine. I suspected the caps needed to reform themselves.

[@Epictronics1]

yeah, I think reformed caps is the most likely reason too

[@tony359]

if I can suggest about the bracket - I'm assuming it's plastic - I'd tape some 120 grit sandpaper on a desk and then you can rub the edges on it (back and forth) while keeping the frame parallel to the desk. It should give you a straight "cut". Once it fits, you can finish the edges with whatever works, more sand paper or a knife etc.

[@kittyztigerz]

19:45 grab a thin sandpaper and ducktape it to table and put little water on it and slide it side way 5 time and flip to next side it should help narrow down 2mm i think it 800grip

[@fnjesusfreak]

I once used a 1.44 MB drive in an XT with a more modern controller card. Couldn't read as such until I used a driver, 2M-XBIOS.SYS, to override BIOS - but it did work.

[@SidneyCritic]

If you have a sanding belt/disk it would be faster, but you could just sand one side at a time with course sandpaper over a block, and then reference the other side by measuring it with a Vernier calliper to keep it straight/parallel - I've done gearbox selector forks this way -.

[@zero0ryn]

Just sand the edges of your drive bracket, use a sanding block of a but of wood with the sand paper wrapped around it. Use finer grit to get a nice edge.

[@georgemaragos2378]

Hi, progressing well It is time like this you think of what is in the cupboard / garage See it you have 3-way Y molex adapters, also later Pc's had a little chain with the large molex and the smaller 3.5 floppy power molex For the side of the drive many have suggested dremzel, but i find that is hard to cut a straight line, a sanding belt will be better, however if the plastic is soft you can use a sharp knife, just do some 20 or 30 degree cuts on the back, then the same up front , then "flat top the centre", then the same on the other side

[@IcySon55]

I've previously made very clean cuts/holes in plastic shells using a woodworking file. Not sure which grit it was but the results are very clean.

[@darthtripedacus1]

Belt sander is the way to go bro.

[@Epictronics1]

I wish I had a belt sander

[@massmike11]

I remember my IBM CGA display being a very good display despite its lack of colors it was very bright and vibrant.

[@Epictronics1]

Yes, I'm very impressed with the image quality compared to other CGA displays I have used

[@MrKrezol]

I think the high voltage caps in the monitor got reformed when you turned the monitor on and that was the whine noise

[@into-db3oe]

Thank You.

[@bobweiram6321]

For gluing same materials, the best adhesive is the material itself, or welding. For ABS plastic, just use acetone as an adhesive.

[@nickwallette6201]

That's a handsome setup there, in the opening shot! Very similar to my own collection, which is what I consider the ideal pairing: - A PC with MDA (and secondary CGA -- because I had it, so why not) with a 5151 - A PC-XT with CGA (and secondary MDA, because I had that too) and a 5153 - A PC-AT with EGA and a 5154 - A PC-XT 286 with Hercules and no bespoke monitor. :-( Need to grab one of those Amdek amber displays... Gotta love that 80s IBM style. So ugly it's kinda cute. :-)

[@Epictronics1]

Now, If I only could find a 5161 with two working full-size MFM drives :)

[@profdc9501]

Often the device producing the high pitch in a CRT is the flyback transformer because there is magnetostriction of the coils in the transformer. So if you dare operate the monitor with the cover off, and use some kind of insulated stethoscope (maybe a PVC plastic stethoscope on the end of a plastic rod) or something like that, you might be able to identify the component that is producing the high pitched noise.

[@tony359]

That's the method I used to diagnose an Apple //c. I just called it "plastic pipe" though. Stethoscope sounds much cooler :)

[@Ghozer]

Sand it down, you can do it gradually, also carefully 'shape' the edge so it's not sharp, and get the look you want from it... you could even touch it up and paint it after if it's off at all!

[@fnjesusfreak]

I used to play Hard Hat Mack a lot on the Apple //c. For level 1 you set down the girders, then use the jackhammer to fasten them.

[@Epictronics1]

Thanks, that game seems fun : )

[@kittyztigerz]

can you put microphone up closer to rear of screen next videos so that way we can hear it i cant tell what was noise i have earbud on and still not hear it at max volume i know can hear it from Adrian videos but not your i dunno if it was cut out of what? you did awesome jobs bring it back to alive last video you say it was making whining noise it sounded like flyback is trying to charge up and make sure add fresh soliding to pin to reduce it from burn out just tips to help you out and save a headache

[@Epictronics1]

Thanks

[@awilliams1701]

I've seen Jan Beta do the baking soda trick a few times.

[@cbmeeks]

I wouldn't cut those edges. I would sand them. Maybe tape some sandpaper to a bench and run the sides along it. I would file down a couple mm on each side.

[@Epictronics1]

Yeah, that sounds like a good method.I'll probably file them down first and then sand them smooth

[@danmenes3143]

@@Epictronics1 You should get good results with a fine single-cut mill file. It probably won't be necessary, but if you find you have to polish further, start with 400 grit wet-or-dry taped to a flat surface. Move progressively finer until you have results you like.

[@Vermilicious]

Some seem to like 3D-printed brackets. Maybe that's an option to consider. You won't get the right finish I guess, but you likely won't with the most common ones either.

[@Epictronics1]

That would work for sure. I'll try to file the bracket I have first

[@bikkiikun]

Concerning the brittle plastic, you might want to try heating it, so it'll soften a little before plying. The problem with old plastics is, that the plasticiser is too volatile and thus evaporates over time. I'm personally not sure how you're get plasticisers back in, but there are resources on "preservation of plastics" by getty.

[@Marco.Teixeira]

Hello mate. I’m trying to get hold of those adapters to stack the 2 drives, as seen at minute 17:00. You have a metal plate on the table between the two screwdrivers… is that part of the 2 drive assembly? Do you know where I can get more info on measurements for those plates?

[@Epictronics1]

I'll try to remember to measure it when the IBM is out next time. It may be easy to make one. Perhaps even 3d print

[@andrasszabo7386]

The capacitors can get dried out very fast, that could produce a high pitch high voltage noise inside the CRT. I had to replace the caps in my hungarian 286 laptop's power supply. It needs a lot of current for that mediocre monochrome CGA screen panel, and the 8 and 16 bit PC ISA cards under the keyboard. The whole laptop is using 16 bit PC ISA cards for everything, by the way.

[@spoonybardtoma]

Using a belt sander on each edge of that bracket should give pretty clean results

[@nickwallette6201]

I've always heard that a belt sander is the perfect tool for removing too much material. :-D

[@LotoTheHero]

In regards to the bracket, (I've never done this) I think you could use a dremel or something similar and then sandpaper to smooth it out. It probably won't be 100% perfect, but it should be good enough.

[@Epictronics1]

yeah, that's probably the way to go, thanks

[@GoldenDragoon]

@@Epictronics1 With it only being a small amount that you need to remove, I would probably just sand it down with a bit of wet and dry paper on a glass surface to ensure it is flat rather than try to cut it with a dremel or other power tools.

[@Epictronics1]

@@GoldenDragoon I think I'm gonna try this method

[@nickwallette6201]

I had to trim a bit off the edge of an old SCSI Toshiba CD-ROM to fit in a normal tower case, and widen the inside bezel of one of those 3.5 to 5.25 adapters to fit a ZIP drive. I just used 220 grit sandpaper, then some 400. Might've gone down to 1000. Once it's in the case, you don't see the edge anyway, but it turned out nice enough that you would have to really be paying attention to notice the difference in texture.

[@bblevins]

I love your video, even though I'm not much of a PC guy. BTW: For the bracket, use some sandpaper to trim off the sides until it fits nice.

[@Epictronics1]

Thanks

[@MonochromeWench]

The drive bracket being too large for the drive bay reminded me of my family's AT clone from the late 80s, the face plate for the Hard drive bracket that came with the computer was too big to fit into the 5.25 bay the drive was installed into. The face plate was just forced into the drive bay (made getting the case on and off almost impossible). Have to wonder if this was a problem of Metric vs imperial sizing. I'm going to guess the larger face plates and brackets come from some cloners making things to a Metric size while the Original IBM standard was probably Imperial. If the plastic has enough give you can force it but that is obviously not recommended for vintage computer plastic but it didn't seem to be much of a concern for the cloners who made my family's computer.

[@Epictronics1]

I actually had a look through my stash of 5,25 FDD drives. They all differ slightly +/-3mm

[@JARVIS1187]

Are you sure it’s the bracket of the 3.5“ floppy drive which did not fit? It looked as if it was the back screw on the left side which wasn’t properly screwed in. And: great video as usual! I love to see good old hardware get treated well :)

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you :) The assembly wouldn't go in past the metal bracket unfortunately. I had a closer look and the hole is about 3mm smaller than any of my CD-ROM drives or face plates. It seems to me the standard was changes slightly at some point. I think I'm gonna try to file the new face plate. Btw. I had a look through my collection of spare 5.25" FDDs and they all have a slight variation in with. I'll have a closer look at this in the follow up vid. It looks like some 360/1.2 drives wouldn't fit either.

[@cooperschwartz318]

I’d recommend getting a mold of the unbroken tab and post it to thingiverse to help other unfortunate 5153 monitor owners

[@shmehfleh3115]

I've personally noticed that a lot of EGA, CGA, and other 15kHz monitors make a more noticeable high=pitched whine when they're not receiving a signal from the computer. AFAIK, that's normal.

[@eDoc2020]

Not just PC displays, my family's Sony TV was the same.

[@QuantumParadox]

Hey Epictronics or who ever can help me, I'm also restoring vintage computers. Right now, I'm restoring an IBM PC-350. It has a Pentium 200 MMX, 160 MB RAM, and a Voodoo 3 3500 PCI (very rare card(I did not buy the card. It came in a computer from my old cleanroom at RIT)), Sound Blaster CT-4500, PCI SCISI card, 3Com ISA 10/100 NIC anyways, the system works very well and runs Windows 95C. I have an old 2COM NIC in to and it sees the network. The issue I am having is, sometimes I can get my Windows 11 computers to see it to share files and folders and sometimes it will not. I do have SMB 1.0 enabled in both Windows 11 computers, and it's on the same network switch as the IBM, and I've disabled firewalls and enabled network discovery. IBM can see the computers if I just type in their local IP, but when I type in the local IP for the IBM sometimes it shows up and sometimes it won't. I also did the Win 95 SP1 and the sock 2.0 update for the network stack. I did share out the drives, and I did enable everything in network settings. I did replace the HHDs with a SCISI to SD card reader and IDE to CF card. Both are 8GB Scandisk cards. And I have one where it's removable from the back to do software upgrades, but I prefer going over the network. I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong here. The home network is ISP Fiber --> PFsense--> switch --> IBM, Main Computer, Secondary. Thank you for reading this.

[@SianaGearz]

I don't remember who was the first person to showcase the soda+CA glue technique in the retro computer space, but i'm sure several people have used it. Probably Adrian, for sure AkBKukU. I'm certain i knew it first from something else, likely one of the diecast restoration channels like baremetalHW.

[@Epictronics1]

It's a great trick!

[@MulticulturalRadio]

EGA on a cga monitor? PLEASE tell me HOW!

[@Epictronics1]

Many EGA cards support CGA monitors. You need to check the manual for your card and adjust the switches/jumpers accordingly. Have fun

[@SmoggyLambGG]

Don't be fooled. Even though it can do 16 colors, it's still in its own class of "Super CGA cards" (Plentronics ColorPlus, Tandy 1000 or PC Jr.)

[@mattruddick8919]

Only played hard hat mac on c64 ❤ me some ally cat

[@bikkiikun]

As for the noise, my (largely uneducated) guess would be, that something is vibrating... (big whoop... what a revelation) As for suspects: Capacitors and/or Inductor... (again, no surprise) So, in my twisted mind, part of the solution would be replacement (inclding ceramics, they can be audibly noisy). Another part would be, using something to dampen the noise... e.g. by inundating them with hot-snot.

[@Epictronics1]

cool, I wasn't aware of vibrating caps!

[@bikkiikun]

@@Epictronics1 : I'm not sure about CRTs... (hence uneducated guess) But as an example, when you use a capacitor in parallel with a neon lamp, it will flash or flicker (like a candle). If you use certain types of capacitor (e.g. ceramics), it can emit noise. Actually it works both ways, those caps can also pick up noise from the outside and put it on the wire (that's how condenser microphones work). Long story short... I would put a tiny mic on an isolated stick and check the innards of the monitor, while it's running. Or go for the safe(r) option, replacing all the capacitors (not just the polarised ones, but also the ceramics).

[@2dfx]

I wouldn't suggest using a 1.44MB drive to read and write to 720k diskettes. The read/write heads in high density floppy disk drives has a much narrower pitch and not all drives have the same head step geometry. It may work on that drive alone, but moving to another machine with a proper 720k diskette drive may be unreadable. Food for thought.

[@Epictronics1]

Interesting, I'm aware of this issue with 5,25" 360k/1.2Mb drives but I didn't think that it would apply for 3.5" drives. I'll do some reading

[@JimLeonard]

You are wrong. The head size and number of tracks in 3.5" dsdd and dshd drives is the same. You are confusing them with 5.25" drives, which do have a head size difference.

[@2dfx]

@@JimLeonard that was probably it, thanks for the reminder!

[@letthetunesflow]

Awe yeah! Another Epictronics video! 🧐Time to learn, 🫡Reporting for class sir!

[@Epictronics1]

haha, hope you enjoyed it : )