IBM XT 5160 Multiple faults repair and restoration

IBM 5150 Restoration here: • The very first IBM PC....
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New on patreon.com/Epictronics
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Tools I regularly use
DeoxIT D5 Contact Cleaner
Hanstar 861DW Rework Station
Pro'sKit SS-331 Desoldering Station
UNI-T UT61E Auto Ranging Multimeter
UNI-T UT890D Manual Ranging Multimeter
MESR-100 mk2 ESR meeter
PINECIL Soldering Iron
PinePowerPSU
TS-100 Soldering Iron
AMTECH NC-559-ASM Flux
MaAnt Grinding Pen
Multicore 60/40. 0.38mm and 0.5mm solder
TL866 II Plus Programmer
Tektronix 2246A 100 MHz four-channel analog scope
PCBs from PCBWay.com :)
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patreon.com/Epictronics
Join me on Twitter: / epictronics1
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio

[@Epictronics1]

Support me on patreon.com/Epictronics IBM 5150 Restoration here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHXIqIaBYt11nKc

[@Epictronics1]

@@Okurka. Thank you : )

[@stpworld]

@@Epictronics1i just sent u a twitter dm.

[@MonochromeWench]

Leisure Suit Larry Installed on a business computer. Yeah that checks out, was probably installed on more work computers than home computers

[@hgbugalou]

Spider bro was installing the web on the computer.

[@50shadesofbeige88]

If the tantalum caps blow in 30 years.. I'll be the only one with a soldiering iron at the old folks home.

[@Epictronics1]

haha, I'll join you there!

[@jwhite5008]

Again, you don't need to have exact value for filter caps like tantalum and electrolytic. If you see capacitors in parallel, they are filter caps. You need to replace them with same or higher voltage and same or higher capacitance. You can safely replace tantalums with low-ESR electrolitics and vice versa. You can replace tantalums / elcaps with ceramics if you can find a value that is enough. Adding more capacitors is fine. Especially adding >0.5uF ceramic in parallel can "help" some older capacitors with increased ESR without recapping the whole board. You can generally snip all of the tantalums and replace them all with one or two modern Low-ESR electrolytic if the sum of capacitance at least matches, and ESR (aka impedance) does not exceed original (non-aged) ESR. Divide ESR of one capacitor by the number of capacitors to get resulting ESR (I know this is not the right way to count it but gives a good enough estimate for this task). You can decrease ESR by sticking more capacitors in parallel. Although in this case I'd recommend new total capacitance to exceed the original capacitance at least 1.5 times. If you are worried of radio frequency noise over long traces - although this is very rarely a real issue before VRMs in early 200X - add a couple of ceramic capacitors valued 0.5uF or more in different spots where tantalums used to be, you can solder them to the bottom of the board. On those older boards with enough clearance you can usually snip the legs of some component at the components itself, take needle-nose pliers, and pull on the remaining leg with force while heating the board from the other side. Patience is key, you need to wait more than you would think should be enough.

[@briangoldberg4439]

the dirty little secret of EGA is that almost all games are basically CGA with 16 colors. there were only a handful of games that actually had 350 line modes (sim city being the only really significant title). EGA monitors are pretty much useless expensive doorstops unless you're interested in specific productivity software or the few games that could do 350 lines. certainly game companies could have made 350 line modes, but they didn't because most people would be reusing their CGA monitors and they didn't see the point in dedicating resources to another 16 color version

[@JenniferinIllinois]

That original hard drive/SSD size comparison. EPIC! Hey, guys in the office gotta play some Leisure Suit Larry. 🤣 80s computer reassembly montage!!!!!!

[@Epictronics1]

Yeah, it was all very neatly arranged with a custom menu system. Larry was just an option among loads of boring corporate stuff : )

[@zaanpenguin]

A working 5160 with HDD, AST 3G video card and FDD? And they even threw in a free spider? Outstanding!

[@Epictronics1]

Excellent find. The spider is now living happily ever after in my garden

[@gremfive4246]

Few years ago I picked up two 5160s, an older model and a newer revision, both completely full of cards and they ran... no bad tantalum caps on the motherboards or cards. Now that I have said that out loud I suppose next time I power them on all of those caps release their magic smoke. Great video as always.

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you

[@hardlyworgen71]

Thank you for letting Leisure Suit Larry theme play.

[@Epictronics1]

a true classic : )

[@Epictronics1]

For some children lol

[@djkokki]

No web-browsing for you on that machine now, since you threw out that spider .. 😄

[@Epictronics1]

:)

[@jaybird57]

Wait, was that leisure suit larry? Hahahah. Awesome!

[@FrankConforti]

Quick follow up… Recently I had a paint project that required sandable primer. I remember thinking the text of the primer felt exactly like the IBM PC case. If the color match values for auto paint can be found, the combination of the primer and the paint could be the solution. When it comes time to paint it, unless you are good with an airbrush it may be better to strip all of the paint off the case and repaint the whole thing.

[@eDoc2020]

I think that floppy drive is the same model I've had lying in a box for 12 years (before that it was a family's friend's box of old parts). I plugged mine in for the first time earlier this week and unfortunately it does not pass a seek test. One of the head guides is broken but I don't know if that is the cause. You're certainly lucky that your entire XT pretty much just worked.

[@Epictronics1]

Yes, very lucky. I'm playing some games on it right now :)

[@nickwallette6201]

My 5150 had an AC fan, but XT and XT-286 had 12V fans. My XT had a full-height 5.25" and full-height HDD, but the XT-286 had half-height floppy drives exactly like this. Wouldn't surprise me if they started using those on the XT as well, particularly if you could buy a fully-loaded 2x 5.25" floppy + HDD model. It looks genuine to me.

[@Epictronics1]

Yeah, it seems IBM switched to half hight late in the production. This is great, I may add a 3,5" in that empty spot

[@nickwallette6201]

@@Epictronics1 A 3.5" drive?? In an early Computer Chronicles episode, George Morrow assured us that those are never going to take off. The 5.25" is just too well established, and the user would never consider purchasing all new software just to use the new, smaller disks. :-D

[@Epictronics1]

@@nickwallette6201 Haha, that is hilarious

[@TravellingVikings]

The emulator board is to emulate a 5250 Terminal. They were used by IBM's midrange systems, not the big mainframes. The midrange systems were for small to medium size businesses. The connector at the back was converted to a twinax coax cable and then connected to one of the midrange systems like System 34, System 36, System 38 up to the AS400 range of systems. The metal cover of the PC has a hammered surface, so it's not enough to sand and re-spray. Some have had them powder coated to get a similar finish. I've seen floating around statements that IBM used Pantone 413 as the colour of the case, but have been unable to find any authoritive source for that assumption.

[@Epictronics1]

yeah, they were probably powder coated originally. I found an image of a 5150 resprayed in Pantone 413 online. It's nice but I'm hoping to find a closer match. Thanks

[@technostalgiaguycanada]

Later model 5160’s shipped with 1 or 2 half height floppy drives. Yours is identical to what I have, it’s an original part :)

[@Epictronics1]

great, thanks

[@tony359]

I was surprised as well about those tantalums. I thought they would either work or BANG. Interesting! Nice restoration! Can I have more details on how you clean those chromed parts? What wire brush did you use? My PS/2 needs a similar treatment but I thought that using an abrasive method would remove the chrome coating, leaving it susceptible to rust? Or maybe it's not chrome plated. I was going to paint those parts but then you lose conductivity.

[@Epictronics1]

Thanks Tony. I don't know if it's chrome or nickel but you are right about that it will rust again. Although, I have not had any issues with similar projects as long as they stay in the studio/home. I have also resprayed some similar projects and masked off where cards/screws are suppose to ground. I use something similar to this: www.amazon.com/Brush-Carbon-Cleaning-Stripping-Attachment/dp/B0BNPFLK11/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=wire+wheel&qid=1686514823&sr=8-3

[@tony359]

@@Epictronics1 Well I'll give that a go. I've got some spray paint but I think I'll make a mess (what to do with the stickers for example etc). It actually rings a bell to use kitchen scourers to remove rust from chromed plated surfaces. I'll try! Thank you!

[@jasmijndekkers]

Nice 5150. Steven now work on a 5170. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands

[@Epictronics1]

I'm still looking for a 5170. Very cool machine

[@georgemaragos2378]

Hi, with the paint. I used a local panel / smash repairs shop, they have a book of paint chip codes from the past before all paint information was on the net. It is sorted by car manufacturer year etc, they find the colour and underneath is the paint mix formula. Unfortunately with todays pigments and non use of lead paint the colour is not quite correct They also have a hand scanner that reads the sample and gives the RGB codes, the pc then gives them modern days substitute I used this method to have the dashboard repainted for my 1966 chrysler, the interior of the glove was panel was immaculate dark silver , a prior owner used black enamel or back shoe paint Anyway, they have in the past matched my IBM AT, Del 2400 , Amiga 500, c64 9 i never new C64 had about 4 different beige / brown biscuit colours in the first bread box ) for the small job price is normally pizza and coke or kebab and coke You can discuss the shine as well as it can be flat , matt goss semi gloss - that is a extra process , then amiga when done was a modern mazda or toyota colour but full reflective shine which is not quite correct, but i kept it as i was to embarrassed to ask to be redone without the reflective shine

[@Epictronics1]

I'd be more than happy to swap a pizza for that color code lol. I'll check with my local Auto body shop

[@tonybardalen]

I always "thumbing up" your videos! You always seem to do stuff that's right up my alley❤

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you

[@FrankConforti]

Colorimeters don’t do well on textured surfaces. You have to use a part of the case and front bezel where the texture wasn’t applied. From memory, I think the back of the plastic bezel is smooth as is the case. It would be the overspray. I no longer have any IBM computers but in the early part of my career I had the PC, PCxt, and a couple of PS-2s. And yes, the paint scheme was the same on all including the monitors. The inside of the F1 keyboard would be ideal as well.

[@RudysRetroIntel]

Very nicely done. Now your computer will be like new. Thanks for sharing

[@Epictronics1]

Thanks

[@fortmax05]

If by "EGA-like graphics on a CGA display", you mean 320x200 and 640x200 with all 16 CGA colors, those will work on CGA displays, provided the jumpers on the card are set for a CGA monitor. It's just like how PCjr/Tandy graphics work on a CGA display. As far as the monitor cares, CGA, PCjr, Tandy, and those two EGA modes are identical.

[@saleendriver]

Way back when in the mid 80s when I was at the University of Florida the newly built and equiped computer science building has a room full of IBM PC-XTs for student use. All were duel full height 5.25" drives with no hard drives. Never saw an XT with half-height drives but I guess the ones I saw were older.

[@EgoShredder]

Excellent video again, love content like this.

[@Epictronics1]

Thank you

[@smallmoneysalvia]

I like to clip the caps with a flush cutter and desolder them from the top side due to the bent legs

[@davefarquhar8230]

One of my friends growing up had a PC/XT with that exact half height drive in it and the filler plate. It was a late production XT they bought at a discount after IBM released the PS/2 line. The asterisk indicates it's a 360K drive. They had a matching 1.2MB drive, with no asterisk, that they used in the 5162.

[@Epictronics1]

5162! One of my favorite vintage IBMs

[@someone7648]

Wow that working HD !, can't be many of them still working now

[@Epictronics1]

yeah, that was an awesome find. Very lucky score!

[@BigBadBench]

I would take a case filled with spiders over what my 5150 and 5170 were filled with 😂 I really hope someone sees this and gets you the IBM color code for the cases. Great video as always!

[@Epictronics1]

haha, thanks John, you really are good at finding extreme projects for your channel : ) Good luck at the swap meet

[@kratafila]

asterisk means 360k drive, original IBM

[@williefleete]

The FDC may have used a negative voltage rail somewhere that may not shut down the supply or is current limited or was part of an RC timing circuit

[@Drucklufttroete]

According to minuszerodegrees, you're supposed to set the DIP switches on the motherboard for EGA if you're using an EGA card with a CGA or MDA monitor - the monitor type is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether there is a video BIOS. I don't know if setting the switches for MDA/CGA causes any problems, though.

[@Epictronics1]

Hmm... I don't remember if I have ever tried a 51xx with the dip switches incorrectly set

[@Morinaka25]

It could be useful to keep some removal alloy solder for the tricky desoldering jobs, as it lowers the melting point of the existing solder to avoid overheating the pads.

[@Epictronics1]

That's an interesting idea, I never thought to try that on a through hole component

[@Epictronics1]

@@TheDimsml Hmm.. are we saying that the cadmium in low melting point solder is risky?

[@Epictronics1]

@@TheDimsml hmm.. my iron could easily do 450. I'll make sure to have good ventilation when I use it next time. It's very useful for removing large chips

[@SockyNoob]

Spider saved! :)

[@EgoShredder]

Amazing to think that this old PC was connected to the web, years before any others were.... 😉 🕷🕸

[@Epictronics1]

lol

[@mashrien]

Got an old 5150/5170 case if you, or anyone else, needs one

[@Epictronics1]

I Sure do. Send me an email [e-mail]

[@tschak909]

(*) indicates a 360K drive, and this is specifically an IBM thing.

[@Epictronics1]

Thanks

[@Okurka.]

8:27

[@awilliams1701]

I know that MDA isn't compatible with CGA, but isn't EGA compatible. I was wondering why you'd switch it to CGA (or even why the option is even available) since you can just use the CGA modes anyway.

[@Epictronics1]

Good question. I wasn't thinking much while I was recording :) Maybe the board should be set to EGA for all modes with a card such as the AST

[@awilliams1701]

@@Epictronics1 Yeah I'd leave it in EGA mode personally. It is backwards compatible. If I recall hercules was the only mode that wasn't backwards compatible with newer cards. That might have been proprietary though.

[@lloyddavies5587]

Could have been used for IBM System 360 or AS/400 systems back in the day, hence the emulation card perhaps?

[@Epictronics1]

I wouldn't know, but the machine was used by a relatively large corporation and it has a custom menu with the option "5250 emulation"

[@mashrien]

I have SEVERAL of those old 8bit ISA video-cards that are monstrously huge, I know one's a monochrome+cga as it's got a manual toggle switch on the back to swap between color and mono.. I'd LOVE to sell these things, I have zero use for them as everything I screw with is all (EGA+) VGA and 486/586. Have a mountain of other hardware I wanna get gone too, have to move soonerisly

[@lilbill6089]

I hope you saved the software for that emulator card, unless it's already archived somewhere. I have some similar rare cards but can't find any software.

[@mlmmt]

What does that thing even do? I cant seem to find any references to it after about 10 min of looking around...

[@lilbill6089]

@@mlmmt It emulates a 5250 Terminal, turning the PC into a terminal to connect to mainframes. These cards are for sale, but nobody seems to have any software for them, making this quite a find.

[@Epictronics1]

@@lilbill6089 Thanks for letting me know. I have sent an email to the "Ardent" guys. If they don't have it archived, I'll make sure they get the files on this HDD

[@UpLateGeek]

Yeah, definitely the original floppy, otherwise you'd have a weird looking blanking plate, whereas that one looks original (as you confirmed later anyway). I also believe they were offering the option of a hard drive plus two floppies, which would necessitate half height drives. In terms of the AST graphics card, it was definitely cheaper to go with a third-party display and graphics card, so I'm a little surprised to see the genuine IBM CGA monitor and more capable AST card. It's possible the dealer thought they could save a few dollars without the customer noticing by buying the machine from IBM with the standard CGA monitor but without the card and installing the AST one instead. Even though you could get a third-party EGA monitor and graphics card for less than a genuine IBM CGA card and monitor (possibly even the MDA option!). What's with that trace zigzagging through the legs of that capacitor? Pretty sure they used an autorouter for their PCB designs, but apparently it wasn't a very good one. For the spray painting, I would call around to automotive spray painting shops and asking them if they do colour matching. You'd probably need them to paint a few different samples on swatches to get the perfect match once it dries. Also it might not be easy to replicate the texture. You can ask the automotive spray shop if they can match the texture, but if not you might need to buy the paint from them then go to a professional coating company to spray and bake the lid like they would've done at the factory. Yes, it's not going to be cheap, but it's also going to take a lot of practice and equipment to replicate the same setup at home, especially if you want to replicate the original texture rather than the usual flat finish of a normal spray paint.

[@Epictronics1]

Yes, If I'm not mistaken, the paint on the lid is powder coated. That requires special equipment and paint. However, I don't feel I need to go quite that far. I'd be more than happy with just a nice regular coat of a very similar color. Let's see if someone will help us out with the color code. Otherwise I'll try with the local Auto body shop

[@nickwallette6201]

Yeah, that trace that wrapped around the positive pin for seemingly no reason is pretty odd. But, I also noticed a lot of those traces looked like they might be corroding under the solder mask. They had dark spots that look like the ones that show up when you have battery leakage damage. :-(

[@Epictronics1]

@@nickwallette6201 I'll have do check when the board is out next time

[@borlibaer]

How can I figure out the values of the tantal electrolyt capacitors on the motherboard and add on cards as well, if the values are unreadable? Are there standard values to just guess?

[@Epictronics1]

Almost. Most of them are 47uF 16v. Which of your cards has unreadable caps?

[@borlibaer]

@@Epictronics1 basically my 486 MB blew up. There are also few multi i/o & scsi cards. Just had a look, but there must be other cards as well where I wondered; possibly few old GAs as well. I got several items (as well audio components) to repair but due to lac of money its quite hard, especially some additional tools are needed. I also got a failing sun LC box behaving like your IBM XT/AT. Looks like I also got floppy diskette drives having trouble (alignement?) afair they also got tantal electrolyt capacitors sometimes. There is also a pending 'project' of an early intel 386dx 20 MHz MB, but this hasn't got tantalums afair. I havn't found any website or vidéo so far, discussing that problem "guessing" capacity values. Would be interesting. I also learned from you that some MBs seem to have such a potential layer sucking the hear away. I already wondered why is that. I also wonder if it could be better to clip off the capacitor and connect the new to the remaining pins ? Thank You very much for your help and interesting Videos. I myself intend to do some videos (Not on Börli Bär) about revival of old gears and software But here as well, some additional stuff is needed.

[@Epictronics1]

@@borlibaer I just assumed you meant caps for an XT. For lesser-known systems, you need a component tester or a good multimeter to check the capacitance. If the voltage information is missing too, check what voltage the cap is connected to and double that value. It's quite rare that the values are completely unreadable on caps. What happened to those boards?

[@borlibaer]

@@Epictronics1 okay. It Is one of my 'holy' CAD Tower PC I took from the 'dry' cellar upstairs after it was slightly flooded by water. But the computers stayed 'dry'. I removed the SPEA TIGA GA, disconnected the HDDs and powered on. Boom! A flash at the 220V power switch. A bulgy Capacitor on the secondary in the power supply and one blown away tantalum close to the board edge near the first EISA / ISA VL slot and power connector I found. This board (4DBS-1.1) SIS 85C406, VTQ 85C411, ATQ 85C431 is packed with tantalums really everywhere. It got a DALLAS clock on socket. DX2 66MHz, 8 SIMM sockets, AMI BIOS.

[@rottmanthan]

i have a 5150 that came from a collage, but of course with no HD there is no info on it.

[@akkudakkupl]

Cut the legs of those caps, then desolder just the legs.

[@ChrisJackson-js8rd]

papst brand fans aren't cheap. if someone's using one in manufacturing they care about quality.

[@Epictronics1]

I noticed! This machine is very quiet compared to my other 51xx. That is a nice fan indeed

[@estalinayala7]

looking fowards to the bloddy expressions you may use, hehe I need to sharpen my English skills and some computer staff.

[@Epictronics1]

haha, yeah, this 5160 had some bloody faults to fix

[@danielhellriegel5730]

Color, Pantone 413???

[@Epictronics1]

Looks similar, but I have no way of checking

[@OscarSommerbo]

According to ChatGPT IBM did have configurations with half height drives. It Also meshes well with the later date of this XT. As the full height drives became quite uncommon rather quickly.

[@Epictronics1]

cool, thanks

[@jwhite5008]

Always ask AI chatbots for reference links AND check them, they are very fond of lying on obscure stuff.