Ibn Baz's takfir upon the one who excuses major shirk with ignorance

t.me/nasralislam

[@mihammedsohail5458]

Allahu Akbar.... Please upload some more , May Allah reward you

[@foufoua]

Just to give more light to it: Ibn baz is saying that what he intended by establishing the proof for the one who does not make takfir of a grave-worshipper because of a shubha, he meant explaining the deed/action of that grave-worshipper and not the ruling in quran of shirk. So when someone came to me and said so and so is a mushrik because i saw him doing istighatha to the dead. I can say, i will not takfir him untill i establish and i am sure that what he did is actually true and some rumors. So untill then i will consider him still a muslim. This does not mean that u call me a kafir because i am not takfiring a kafir. But if i say, even if he dead made istighatha to dead, i will not takfir him because he is jahil and i still see him a muslim then only then i fall under the 3rth nullifier: من لم يكفر المشركين أو شك في كفره The one who does not make takfir of the polytheists

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

If jahl isn't a hijab to takfr then why many sahabas fell near or into shirk & weren't asked to repeat their shahada? Belief : Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (ﷺ peace & blessings be on him) said, "A man did sins, when passing away came to him, he said to his sons, 'After my passing scatter my ashes, **if Allah has control over me,** He will give me a punishment He has never given to any.' His sons did so. Allah ordered the earth saying, 'Collect what you hold of his particles.' It did so, He was standing. **Allah asked, 'What made you do what you did?' He replied, 'O my Lord! I was afraid of You.' So Allah forgave him.**" - Bukhari 3481, Prophets. Etc. (In Musnad Ahmad he or one with similar background was in Nar temporarily it seems) Statement : Ibn 'Abbas said, "A man said, to the Prophet, 'Whatever Allah wills and you will.' He said, ' **(Do) You put an equal with Allah. It is what Allah alone wills.'" (or say "What Allah wills & then what you will")** - Musnad Aḥmad 1839 - Adab Mufrad 783 (Sahih Albani), Sayings. Zainab, wife of ‘Ebn Mas'ud told he saw a thread on her neck and asked what it was. When she told him ts a thread over which a spell was recited for her he took it, cut it up & said, “You, family of ‘Abdallah, are independent of polytheism. I have heard **Allah’s messenger, peace & blessings be upon him say spells, charms & love-spells are polytheism.”** She replied, “Why say this? My eye's were discharging *& I kept going to so, the Jew, when he applied a spell it calmed down.” ‘Abdallah said, “That's a deviI hand poking it, when a spell uttered he desisted. All you need to do is to say as Allah’s messenger said : ‘Remove the harm, O Lord of men, & heal. Thou art the Healer. There is no remedy but Thine which leaves no disease behind.” - Sunan Abī Dāwūd 3883 (Sahih Albani), Med & mishkat 4552 What seems is a pattern in hadith of Muslims who error, even if it's shirk or disbelief, we ask them a question to see if they understand or not and educate him, not immediately pass a ruling. --- Rulings on individuals are for Mujtahids. Narrated Hakim bin Hizam: I said to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ peace and blessings be upon him), "Before embracing Islam I used to do good deeds like giving in charity, Abd-manumitting, and the keeping of good relations with Kith and kin. Shall I be rewarded for those deeds?" The Prophet (ﷺ peace and blessings be upon him) replied, **"You became Muslim with all those good deeds."** - Bukhari 1436, Zakat Question, If one keeps their good deeds before Islam, how is the Muslim who errors, doesn't do shirk with Iklas as in has excuse of jahl per hadith lose his deeds & a non Muslim? Iklas is what is important.

[@adorablecheetah2930]

​@@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543 What you are saying is irrelevant because here we are talking about someone who openly prays to another God

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

@@adorablecheetah2930 god* small g unless you speak of Allah. Du'a isn't the only form of shirk. How about the hadith make for us that anwat like they have and Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him said this is like the statement make for us gods like they have gods.

[@adorablecheetah2930]

@@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543 Ok look I'm not here to pick a fight but just to make it clear. The hadith you quoted is very famous and scholars have explained it, they said that had they insisted on their offer they would have committed kufr but their mere ask was not kufr. This is the dominant opinion of the ulema, a small minority said that even their ask was kufr. So this can never be a proof to excuse grave worshippers. Also to make my stance clear I'm not saying we should make takfeer on anything suspicious. I'm saying takfeer is mandatory on the person who prays to a false god like takfeer is mandatory on each and every single qadiani, if no excuse to them then grave worshippers are even more undeserving of excuse. also not sure what you mean by small g big g

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

​@@adorablecheetah2930 Jazak Allahu khayr brother or sister. I understand your view. I just wish you could of told me who reported those views on hadith that anwat or who summarized them brother. However 3 points. 1. To enter Islam one affirms the shahada in general like the boy who asked his father can I be Muslim right before passing away. While learning the details of Islam is after like Abu Dawud 495, kitab salat - teach your kids to pray at 7 and be firm at 10. 2. As for qiyas with saying it's like the Qadiyani, they reject Quran 33.40 which is a clear verse and even mix up the term Messenger and Prophet ( Messenger is a Prophet with scripture acc. To Quran 19. 51-53 & Quran 25.35). 3. I think there is a qiyas you missed. What the Sahabas request was or could be shirk in Tawhid Rubb and what Qom Musa asked for was shirk in Tawhid Ilah and they were directlty compared to each other. Those Sahabas didn't go through with the request of that anwat similar to makes us gods like they have ok, but Zainab used an amulet from ahl Kitab and from the wordings seems clearly can be major shirk in Tawhid Rubb, no? So if this was excused and she didn't repeat the shahada when her scholar husband ebn Masud corrected her, so can the request of graves or shirk in Tawhid Ilah due to jahl be to or no? I think this proves the point ... --- An excuse scholars make is ahl bida do incorrect tawil, like above Muadh made Sujud to other then Allah, it's apparently shirk but excuse can be made as in Quran Yusef's family made sujud to him similarly even though it's wrong in this ummah it was ok in a past ummah, many grave worshipers make tawil of Quran 2.154 and 4.64 saying the Prophetis alive in his qubur so ask him for forgiveness - this is wrong if you look at Quran 35.22 that the one in qubur can't hear and Quran 3.169 that they are alive with Allah. Its shirk as dua is ibada in Quran 40.60, but if they misunderstood, maybe they are sincere. Again I am just saying the other side has proof to, and they seem to have more.

[@Qawl-al-Haqq]

You totally mistranslated what he said and wrote the opposite of what he actually said at 2:10 which is: المقصود هو أن الذين توقفوا في عباد القبور لا يُكفَّرون حتى تقام الحجة على أولئك الذين استمروا في عبادة الأموات والاستغاثة بالاموات (Al-maqsūd huwa anna alladhīna tawaqqafū fī 'ubbād al-qubūr...lā yukaffarūn hattā tuqām al-hujjah 'ala ulāika alladhīna istamarrū fī 'ibādat al amwāt wal-istigātha bil-amwāt...) Translation: "the intention was that those who refrain from takfir of the grave worshippers are not made takfir of (i.e. we dont takfir them) until the hujjah is established upon the ones who persists in worshipping the dead and invoking the dead..." (meaning the excuser still refrains after he knows the hujjah reached the mushrik). As for the one who excuses the mushrik upon whom the hujjah hasn't been established, he says it must be clarified to the excuser until the shubhah has been removed. This is something more than just hujjah alone. Even some of bin baz's students have clarified what he meant by hujjah here which is hujjah upon the grave worshiper, not hujjah upon the excuser.

[@raihanshahid8251]

Really akhi? So he only makes takfir on the adhir if proof is established against the individual who committed shirk and the adhir still doesn't takfir?

[@Qawl-al-Haqq]

​@raihanshahid8251 yes exactly akhi.

[@lllkhu]

am i wrong when i say many "salafis" are khawarij, just look! they make mass takfir and then after that say whoever does not agree with them even though the topic is not a qati'i matter at all, IS A KAFFIR?!? And if you dont takfir who they consider as kuffar, you are kaffir?!?!! what a silly thing to say. they are doing chain takfir and are nothing but khawarij, alhamdulillah shaykh bin baz is free from this

[@ياسين-ب5ح]

which students clarified and where?

[@Qawl-al-Haqq]

@user-xj7mk3ql3z sH. khalid al fulayj is one, he's asked specifically about bin baz's view and answers here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5iWZXSJjtV8aNUfeature=shared . Also Sh. Abdullah as-Sa'd is another student of bin baz and explains the matter the same way in his sharh of 3rd nullifier.

[@Anti-Cult]

ضرب المرجئة إخوان عباد القبور