ICF True Cost Winter 2024!!!

[@Squireboy]

We completed our ICF house in the fall of 2019. Best decision we made when it came to building our house. Our average monthly utility cost on a 3,800 sq ft house is about $150. If I ever build again I will absolutely use ICF and recommend it to everyone. I’ve even kept a piece of the form for “show and tell”. Can’t recommend it enough.

[@FJB2020]

I finished our 3700 sqft air-tight monopoly framed home in July and our average is $125 a month based on $0.13 a kWh.. I would have thought ICF would be much lower. What are your energy costs per kWh?

[@Squireboy]

@ our average would be around $.08/kWh I believe. I keep my house pretty cool, so I use a lot of power. I have a coworker whose house is about 2200 sq ft typical wood framed and their monthly electric bill is over $350 on level billing. Another coworkers home is 2600 sq ft 2x6 framed with spray foam and their bill is over $250 with level billing.

[@idanko731]

ICF is a great product and totally worth it. The only alternative is using forms or cement blocks and closed cell foam on the outside to waterproof and insulate. They do this with industrial-type buildings (ex: Schools, Grocery Stores, etc). If you are building a century home, I would go with either ICF or Forms/Block with Spray foam. If you want to really go full out, use open cell foam (1/2lb) on your inside walls, and then when drywalling, use 2 layers of 1/4 inch drywall. I've seen a house like this and it was like a bunker. You could heat it with a candle and cool it with an ice cube and a bomb could go off outside and you would never hear it. I tell folks, you'll spend 10's of thousands on cabinets and countertops that can be changed out relatively easily, but you typically have one chance to invest in the mechanical and structure of your house and that is where every dollar can make a huge difference. How many million-dollar homes I've been in that are insulated like crap and uncomfortable, but wow did they have nice kitchens and bathrooms..... 😆

[@gemhomebuys]

I can personally testify that ICF is the best quality and most cost effective over time. Sound blocking is also phenomenal and often overlooked. Built some ICF homes back in 2007/08 in Corpus Christi. First ever icf in Port Aransas tx. Market crash and divorce killed construction biz in 08 went into real estate since then to this date. Still did some major remodels for clients through the years and if ever get back in the construction biz ICF would be it. It’s so far superior and labor friendly. Want to do a ICF pool on our place in the woods north of Houston. Maybe by the end of 2025 if I do I will go to one of your classes. I want to make the pool solar powered which I should be able to do hear with a ICF pool I believe. Carry on and keep forging ahead!

[@Krazie-Ivan]

this is really well done, Aaron, & a step above the previous cost comp vids. for closer apples in efficiency, probably need offset framing on a 2x8 plate to get rid of most thermal bridging ...even with the 2" closed-cell, zip, etc on a stick build. complexity & difficulty increase, esp for corners, which also means hiring framers experienced with those techniques. *TIME* itself is another factor, as juggling schedules for all the different trades & how much longer it takes them (drilling holes, etc) impacts a construction loan you're likely paying for before ever living in it. lumping footer, framing, sheathing, insulation, etc all in one saves quite a bit of time.

[@all3pools]

I agree and hopefully can figure out a way to articulate it in a vid, I’m helping a guy in orange co California who was quoted a mint and 6 months to install icf and decking, working with him to build his own crew and use elements I tho he can shave 3-4 months easily!

[@-ixNay-]

Great breakdown! For years I had plans on building a log home, but the prices now are outrageous! I am convinced that ICF is the way to go, the only issue I am having is finding someone in my area that builds them as I do not have the time or means to do so. We are looking to build within the next year.

[@all3pools]

Find a builder who is eager to learn and buys into the method, if he’s unsure pay for him to come to our training as part of his compensation with the knowledge that we then support his journey into excelling in the field in his or her market! We do it all the time:)

[@-ixNay-]

@@all3pools In theory that sounds good, but in this area the complexity to make that attainable are highly unlikely. I have requested quotes just to get a gravel driveway put in to the build area for over 3 weeks now and have heard nothing. Also, I do not want to spend the money to train someone to build something that to me is going to be expensive. I would much prefer someone who is an experienced builder.

[@badawesome]

I have had a house with double 2x4 exterior walls for 30 years. Anyone can build them and you will have the same r- value as ICF or go as high as you want with a wider wall and insulation. I live in Montana 60 miles from the Canadian border. Building cost is obviously significantly lower than ICF.

[@MrBmoore06]

What size core were you using for the ICF blocks in this comparison/calculation? If you said, I apologize I must’ve missed it. Also very interested in building my own ICF home in northern MO. Are your trainings available to the general public or are they more geared towards contractors?

[@all3pools]

6” core, training is open to public for now, at least through this summer, next one is in February, email [e-mail] for info

[@rockys7726]

The side benefits such as lower insurance is a struggle. It's something out of the ordinary so insurers are not used to evaluating it. So there's always resistance for them to do something new and different. I've had so many instances where I have to explain what an ICF house is and what the benefits are so I can get a more advantageous rate. And if you don't fight for it they just evaluate it as a traditional house and don't give you any discount. Even after you've explain it they can always just say we're not familiar with that type of construction and can't give you any discount.

[@all3pools]

That’s when you shop for someone who isn’t complacent, I understand completely but they’re out there and several of us are getting calls to come speak to big insurance conventions now all the time to educate the industry, so don’t reward those who resist!

[@rockys7726]

@@all3pools I hope the industries catch on sooner than later. It's so annoying to talk to people who aren''t aware of advantages and won't listen to new ideas.

[@badawesome]

I don't understand why insurance should be less for ICF. Replacement costs are higher and isn't that what insurance is supposed to do? Foam does burn. It would be advantageous in areas with drive-by-shootings.

[@bill2292]

Thank you! I know you're a busy man, I apreciate it.

[@DavidJones-pn6jm]

Love your videos! I appreciate the honesty!!!

[@all3pools]

You’re welcome

[@traviscoleman8861]

Thanks! I always look forward to these videos.

[@ericp888]

how can labor for the ICF be so much more expensive than for stick built? The ICF blocks are easier to put up. Buy prefab joists and roof trusses for the ICF. Should be less labor not more. With stick built your custom building every wall. It doesn't make sense.

[@JesseWarren2579]

Yeah man I’m thinking the same thing. Labor is where you make your money so shouldn’t be priced equally or am I missing something?

[@pintopilot]

Love your videos. This one is no exception. And thank you for introducing me to Element ICF (although you call them Elements).

[@mcchupka9718]

Thank you. Super helpful but don’t agree with how expensive a styrofoam block is. Seems like the supply easily outpaces the demand. What is the profit margin on the blocks alone? 90%?

[@all3pools]

I’m not sure what you are saying?

[@mcchupka9718]

@ I guess I was just typing what came to mind… thinking that styrofoam (styrene/polystyrene) comes from petroleum so it is an abundantly available natural resource. I will be curious to see if lowering petroleum costs has any effect on ICF manufacturing and pricing, and how much cheaper fuel, less regulation, and less tax on fuel reduces the price of concrete. Basically, just saying that I am optimistic that if manufacturers lower the MARKUP of ICF blocks… I might be able to afford to build in 2025.

[@patrickgilmore9125]

i like the breakdown. havent dove into your content full on yet, so maybe this next question is in another vid: what about the trades and how they install what they need? also, roofs; are they easier to put on (most likely are IF the crew knows what to do) ?? p.s definitely want my next house to be icf. all around makes sense. again, great work team.

[@willagoateatit3298]

Thank you for these videos! I show these to the wife so she can see the benefits along with a realistic cost associated with ICF construction. I want to build a generational house designed with future additions in mind that could support older relatives, kids, grandkids, etc. ICF seems to be the best way to build a lasting home for our future family. Merry Christmas!

[@Ifishmo]

no water proofing of the ICF walls? Given this scenario, 40'X60', 200 linear feet, there is 1400' of unprotected/non-sealed styrofoam seams. If you have to waterpoof it below grade....you should have to waterproof it above grade too. ICF concrete is by no means 'water proof' and nor is an ICF block wall UNLESS it's been waterproofed (ie. peel/stick/ or spray/roll-on sealants). Water proofing ICF is NOT cheap, i think you should include some waterproofing expense for this example. All that being said, what are your thoughts about waterproofing above grade (on ICF builds)? Rain/water shield? Rain/water gapping? (1/2" air barrier for water shed and evap)? I'm building an ICF home/garage/shop this spring and these are the things I'm torn on, you never really see any 'pro ICF' builders/sellers discuss this with any intelligent arguments for/against etc. One more question, how do you design ICF walls (great walls or 'window walls') that have many windows in them where the window spacing is "close" together? ie. windows are 6" apart (typical large window wall spacing). Do you wood frame that section? What is the minimum window/window spacing that you recommend for ICF construction? Thanks for all the ICF info/videos and your passion to share with us.

[@cymerus2]

I would go with water proof peel and stick + dimple mat below grade and water repellent peel and stick above grade on the seams, because ICF is using a closed cell foam. In terms of design of openings you probably need to follow the same guidelines as for concrete / CMU blocks, in terms of additional rebar / angled iron placement above the openings and next to it or the minimal size of support for the reinforced sections (I think for CMU blocks it's 6 or 8 inches). Two things to keep in mind is that more rebar doesn't mean stronger structure and to not get close with rebar to the edge of your opening or you will have a weak spot there. Best thing to do is to have a chat with a structural engineer. It will be money well spent.

[@Christ_is_King951]

i’m sold on ICF, just need to find a good architect in so cal for my build. Any ideas?

[@all3pools]

Architect of engineer?

[@Christ_is_King951]

@@all3poolswhoever can design my house. What do you recommend?

[@holleratoller1750]

With the diy component of ICF, pulling most of the labor out makes it even more attractive. Making plans to build my next one this way right now!! Thanks for the time to put this together!

[@all3pools]

Sure thing! When u get plans send them to [e-mail] and we can help you with elements icf, fab form bracing and tons of other ancillary products!

[@RyanDorough]

Great content as usual! Are you doing any Education classes at WOC?

[@all3pools]

Don’t think I’m doing any education there, I’ll be hanging out with fab form and the guys from element so we’ll see!

[@bwillan]

I think you should up the amount of spray foam you are using to 4" thick to even out the actual R-Value of the ICF block and thermal mass of the concrete. I know you are also doing a basic calculation for comparison. From the ICF builders I've talked to the cost difference between stick frame and ICF is stated at 5-10% more.

[@spendous]

can you also compare pole barn metal wall and 2" of foam?

[@rinkevichjm]

Wouldn’t using helix micro rebar reduce the rebar cost?

[@all3pools]

No

[@rinkevichjm]

@ really no having to spend on rebar placement isn’t costly?

[@sebastiansawyer9566]

wrap the outside with r5 1" rigid foam board and it eliminates thermal bridging and meets the same total r value

[@all3pools]

Doing a lot of costly mental gymnastics to avoid using a superior product eh? Is that 1” foam going to give you 250-300 mph wind protection too?

[@sebastiansawyer9566]

@@all3pools no mental gymnastics just modern high high-efficiency building practices these days. Can't comment on wind protection, but it would be the same as a normal 2x6 wall with zip for sheathing as this is what the wall comprises. Same or better R-value than ICF and is much much cheaper. The wall is rated as 'structural 1'.

[@rogerbourbon4737]

I’m from Mo STL area. Interested in being a distributor. Got any helpful information?

[@all3pools]

Distributing what?

[@hootis8]

$205 a yard here. Generally low cost area except for concrete.

[@rinkevichjm]

Wait until they do steel framing for the non supporting wall inside

[@FJB2020]

I think I am going to switch to this product and stop using the more expensive and no longer dominant Nudura (lost patents so no longer worth the higher cost in my opinion). Now if only lite deck would come down in price...

[@Room1sixtyfive]

Imagine a Police officer is outside of your home and he/ she start shooting through the walls, would you rather be behind a concrete or a lumber wall?...

[@all3pools]

Why would said police officer be shooting thru your walls?🤔

[@ShadyD365]

Can you do 9 and 10 foot ceilings?

[@all3pools]

You can do any ceiling height

[@ShadyD365]

@@all3pools I am coming back to the states soon and want to have a shell of a house built starting in April and am trying to finalize the basic plans. I have had 4 houses built in the past and get better at it every time but would really like to have an ICF home this time. I have lived in Thailand the last 3 years when I come back I am looking for land in Arkansas and Tennessee and Missouri. What I would like to see is just some normal sized 1600-2000 square foot house build. ICF foundation, ICF walls, windows and roof with typical labor costs. I am retired and just want a basic shell and finish the interior/exterior on my own. I don't have enough experience dealing with concrete or ICF to do any of it on my own.

[@2point..0]

@All3 Powered by ICF Guru!, Aaron could you tell me more about the FORTIFIED Program, we will be building in the state of Maine and would love to find out more...Liked#62 N Subbed... P.s. I like those ICF's what an upgrade over others!!!

[@all3pools]

fortifiedhome.org

[@2point..0]

@@all3pools Thank you, Sir!!!

[@2point..0]

@@all3pools My Wife and I are going to be building our Home