Is ZIP System Really Worth It?

[@BenBrand]

Really great to see pictures of zip sheathing with issues. As you mentioned, it's hard to see that since there are so many sponsored videos going over all of the benefits of zip sheathing. This gives people a lot better understanding of what to look out for because that's always glossed over.

[@collin9085]

Like any system, failures almost always come down to improper installation such as not taping the seams well, crapy sill pan flashing, etc. Zip system is not a cure all for house wrap by any means. I still think there are plenty of times a house wrap is a better solution. Especially a high quality one. Taping all the seams and penetrations is super tedious and can easily be shrugged off. Especially when you have to hand roll them.

[@TheJeof1000]

Really house wrap is better? Hmmmp

[@phamlam3720]

@@TheJeof1000Adhero 3000, delta vent SA, hydrogap, majvest are all great house wrap.

[@bobwhite9670]

Cdx and 30lb and good install practice wins the race Everytime. Osb in any form is CRAP. Vent properly and flash properly and limited caulk done properly as a method will outperform gimmick products.

[@phamlam3720]

@ Maybe in climate zone one. Air tight house needs fluid applied or self adhered membranes. I don’t want to breathe in dirty air or have unwanted creatures in my house. This ain’t a shed. It’s a home

[@ironnwizzard]

As a structural engineer, Zip-R is a nightmare to deal with. The rigid insulation between the OSB and the studs means all that strength goes right out the window and it performs closer to a gypsum shear wall than a proper plywood/OSB wall. Add to that an insane amount of windows and doors, a dash of bump-ins and bump-outs, and a pathological aversion to anything that's not cheap wood and you have a real challenge developing any kind of lateral system that actually works.

[@Richard-Burdett-Bow]

Zip r makes you lose all shear strength. Most places you don't even need to worry about shear strength houses for conventional designs (some houses need moment frames) It's interesting to see how much engineering requirements for lateral loads have been ratcheted up in the last decade and the wide variances of adherence to this code amongst engineers. It's getting harder to be a framer. Calgary Alberta 4 to 6 story condos and 3 storey towns

[@coasttal123]

@@Richard-Burdett-Bow Hmmm, which ZIP R are you talking about? Huber warrants it as a shear item up through R6. They don't warrant for the roof, but do have a recommend use for the roof, where OSB/Ply is installed and nailed for your roof and then the R6 placed over it. I am also a MS PE ME/Structural, and I go by manufactures data and not a personal view of something. That is why I also use a manufactured rain screen and not 1X's on a wall.

[@Edward-tp5nc]

My concern immediately was the foam board against the studs and that gap. No way you can tell me that is as solid as for example 1/2” plywood nailed against the studs.

[@treepop1550]

All of these new products seem hard to understand and add complexity and confusion as all of the experts seem to have their own competing ideas about how things should be done. It seems to me alot of these products are good for profit and the eternal debates among building scientists as to what is the latest and greatest must have building product ?? Alot of these products are wonderful in theory but to expect their installation to not cause other issues is unrealistic in my opinion.

[@PK75J]

This is so helpful, thank you! I am building my new home in the Pacific NW Lower Columbia River area (high moisture generally). I plan to pay extra to use good grade plywood versus any type of chip board sheathing due to moisture. But your videos about how to properly detail many aspects of the whole building structure will add great value to me when I am specifying what I want and making sure I get what I pay for. Thanks again!!!

[@PK75J]

I agree with you that somebody in the room is indeed blissfully stupid. If you actually read my comment with comprehension, I am saying that I will pay extra to use good grade plywood for my exterior sheathing versus any type of chip board product. Plywood is not chipboard, this is elementary, like 3rd grade elementary. Zip and chip board are pretty much the same chip board thing with Zip having a green coating and paying out lots of market development dollars for wankers to promote it; neither will be on my home.

[@MichaelJ674]

I have no doubt that Huber uses better than commodity grade OSB (not “chipboard”) in their Zip sheathing and having the WRB attached is a potential time saver. My issue-especially in an environment like where you will be building-is that the OSB in Zip is nearly impermeable whereas plywood is semi-permeable, thus increasing the drying potential of the wall assembly, especially when paired with a permeable or semi-permeable peel-and-stick WRB. I plan to do this plus add a couple of inches of Rockwool exterior rigid insulation under a rainscreen assembly on my new home on the central Oregon coast.

[@minedustry]

As a carpenter who worked in the PNW for most of my career. What worked in California prematurely failed up here. I could just write a book about all the bad systems that have been tried and swept on the rug by the same salesmen pushing the next new thing. I highly recommend that you stick with known best practices in your area and not be a beta tester for the newest thing.

[@scotteric8711]

I watched the video of insulating old homes in warm weather climates, and naturally this one came next. I was considering updating with the Zip system, and I had the exact thoughts on its implementation.

[@petrawagner4946]

Awesome. I have been wondering about this myself. I am a huge fan of rockwool. LOVE your incrdible videos!

[@JTDesign1]

Thanks for your video. I love your full color 3" = 1' details. Do you put those on Construction documents? I do have a question about this air barrier in Climate Zone 4, where we commonly vent our crawl spaces. All your details show a sealed crawl space.

[@machickman4041]

Great video. I didn’t know about the zip r causing issues with in the cavity in colder climates. I would rather use rockwool on exterior and in the cavity.

[@collin9085]

Cold climates always have issues with vapor retarders/barriers on the outside.

[@jeffhogueison1656]

@@collin9085 I put foam board on the inside of room to stop moisture going out to the cold exterior cinder block here in the north midwest. Works great.

[@PatrickKniesler]

This is an amazingly valuable video, especially in terms of information density.

[@ASIRIDesigns]

Glad it was helpful!

[@esewed1980]

I love having access to unbiased info. It seems that all my favorite youtube builders are being sponsored these days and it makes it very hard to know if I'm learning anything or falling for marketing. It really sucks having to be on guard all the time.

[@jackspencer8290]

There is a very interesting video from NDSU Extension on basement foundation insulation effectiveness. In it, Pat Huelman talks about how the foundation should be insulated from the outside, and that the TOP of the foundation (where the sill plate sits) should NOT be covered with spray foam, because the foundation needs to be able to release moisture. Yet I often see diagrams where the top of the foundation (on the inside) is covered with insulation - often spray foam. This is depicted in this video in a diagram at 5:03. As Huelman says, energy efficiency should never come first.

[@thepenguinpopper2509]

fantastic observations! In rural Texas where I live if you leave the poly-iso exposed mice will burrow into it and it has a fire risk. solid wood at the bottom makes for the best job. we don't use zip, but we absolutely liquid apply the weather barrier including dense mesh at seams and anywhere movement or separations can occur.

[@chadspurling7411]

Personally, I would set the wall back so the ZIP doesn't overhang the foundation, and then caulk it to the concrete with a good grade of polyurethane caulk like Dymonic 100. It's a good detail for air sealing anyway.

[@thepenguinpopper2509]

@@chadspurling7411 A great idea, would have to convince the Architect/customer to plan for moving the wall in the extra two inches, or change the foundation dimensions. something that is out of my control

[@chadspurling7411]

@@thepenguinpopper2509 It's just so easy to account for at the design stage, especially with slab on grade. Much better there than trying to use a flashing or a piece of tape.

[@MichaelJ674]

A double sill plate with 2x6 over a 2x8 on the bottom (or 2x4 over 2x6 depending on codes and energy efficiency goals) is a really easy way to accomplish the 2” stagger and protect the bottom edge of the exterior insulation. You would use 1 1/2” of rigid insulation over 1/2 plywood sheathing with semi-permeable peel and stick WRB (or fluid applied) in between. Gives you a well insulated, watertight wall that can breathe enough to allow water vapor to escape without transferring heat through the assembly.

[@MichaelJ674]

Great video! Thanks for the balanced perspective as usual. That’s why I’m a subscriber 😊. I’ll be contacting you in a few months for some consulting work on my new house build on the central Oregon coast, but wanted to run something by you as a starting point that is relevant to this video. Because it’s in the relatively mild climate zone 4C, I’m thinking of going with Zip R3 (or possibly R6) over 2x6 framing-primarily to create a thermal break between the studs and sheathing-with mineral wool insulation in the wall cavity and a rainscreen siding system on the exterior. Interior to be 5/8” gyp board with latex paint as the primary vapor barrier with sealed openings and then use AeroBarrier to seal any remaining leaks and get the air infiltration rate below 1.0 ACH. This seems like a cost-effective way to achieve good performance goals and IAQ (in conjunction with whole-house ERV and dehumidification) at a reasonable cost. Seems to me exterior insulation would be overkill here both in terms of energy efficiency and durability of the wall assembly. Am I missing something? Thanks.

[@kalapis123]

top notch evaluation ... thanks for the advice & education. Respectfully, cj

[@OWC2000]

I installed zip R-6 panels on my addition. I installed 'Z" clips that extended down 2" from the top of the foundation, under the sill plate. I secured a band of treated lumber (1 1/2 x 1 1/4) on top of the lower part of the clips with screws. Then installed the R-6 panels on top of the PT band. Taping the panel to the PT and caulking between the foundation and the PT band. Very airtight and covers the gap under the sill plate and the bottom edge of the zip panel.. Hope this helps.

[@AAA_Ranch]

Excellent explanation of zip r and potential drawbacks in colder climates. in Canada we do typically insulate from the wrb barrier outwards as detailed in your sketches

[@jacobecorder]

No one ever comments on the vast number of nails used in zip r due to shear requirements. Each nail conducts a little but a lot of nails conduct a lot. Every 4 inches on the perimeter adds up to a lot of thermal loss. This is why exterior is also far superior as battens can hold the insulation to the framing with limited thermal bridging. Fiberglas offsets are better and stainless .188 flat head lags are even better but too expensive. Zip r has it backwards based on science. The foam should be outside but not really practical to install that way. Zip plywood would be better than osb for sure due to perms. Great video as always!

[@coasttal123]

Where is that mech engr. degree you have from? Ohhhh, not an engineer. Don't comment on heat transfer until you know the science.

[@politics4816]

@@coasttal123 I am an Engineer (MS) and I agree with Jacobecorder. The insulation is best externally with reduced thermal bridging. I have been in Engineering for 40 years now and over my career I have met many smart and knowledgeable people who are not Engineers.

[@mestiza1776]

Would using the flashing on those penetrations prevent issues? I’ve seen that done in order to correct the amount of nails used.

[@MurDocInc]

Would be interesting to see that on thermal camera.

[@jacobecorder]

​@@MurDocIncask @coasttal123 I'm sure he knows ...... .. . ..

[@IndyPhil]

A lot of good information here! So glad you didn’t say ZipR is Exterior Insulation. It’s technically not. I’m hearing people say ZipR is exterior insulation all the time, which is wrong.

[@coasttal123]

Hmmm, where is your engineering degree from??

[@IndyPhil]

@ can you provide a definition of exterior insulation?

[@r.j.bedore9884]

Technically ZIP-R is not exterior insulation since the insulation part of the product is inboard of the WRB, but it will satisfy the code requirement for continuous "exterior" insulation. If you really want to use ZIP-R instead of actual exterior insulation, I would recommend using some canned spray foam between the joints before applying the seam tape to reduce the chance of air leakage and the moisture issues he mentioned in the video.

[@johnwhite2576]

@@r.j.bedore9884or better yet just liquid flash

[@Rainbirdddd]

Now do a video breaking down the alternative and better performing options out there like Adhero 😊

[@kenfischer3134]

Just completing a build with ZipR6. Very positive experience. One benefit and cost driver that I think is missed is that the quality of the OSB in Zip is way higher than the crap that was used on my shear walls. So, when people compare the price and say it's expensive, well, sometimes you get what you pay for. Same experience with the AdvanTech flooring. Yes, it's more. It's also a higher quality product. My framer was skeptical of the whole product line, but came away particularly impressed with both the Advantech and the ZipStretch tape.

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

In a high wildfire risk area. So mineral wool and heavy timbers appeal to me. I am also trying to make sure moisture is allowed to flow outward. As I burn wood in masonry appliances. Lots of wood brings snow with it. Plus passive solar so have many plants too.Also bugs and mice don't like mineral wool. I don't like the basalt rebar either.

[@SchondorfEnt]

As a builder that's used traditional OSB, Plywood and Zip, we love Zip. One really great reason why Zip is a great choice is it will save your ass if you're in an area prone to rain. All that savings you made go down the drain when you have to hire a crew to come out for a day and use plastic to button up the roof and walls. Saves your project. (clearly this outside of the already great benefits)

[@collin9085]

Yeah, but normal house wrap also covers all the window and door openings blocking all the wind driven rain. You can call a crew back out later to cut out the window openings, but then it's the same issue as you mentioned. Framers can install house wrap themselves too.

[@richdobbs6595]

@@collin9085 If there is any delay between framing and sheathing, that house wrap seems to always be torn and blowing in the in wind and should probably be replaced, but won't and will be permanent defect in the building. Not being in construction, I have no idea how often that happens.

[@DavidMarosow-mm6jy]

@@richdobbs6595peel and stick is never blowing around, you are talking about cheap tyvek junk

[@richdobbs6595]

@@DavidMarosow-mm6jy Yeah, I'm talking about cheap Tyvek junk, because that is what people are talking about when they refer to "normal" house wrap. Peel and Stick is an expensive premium product, that AFAIK drives the cost of OSB higher than ZIP sheathing if it is applied to all surfaces.

[@DavidMarosow-mm6jy]

@@richdobbs6595 I just saw a guy build his dream million dollar house, and he used tyvek I was floored… Tyvek VS peel and stick on a 3000 sqft house is so minimal it’s a joke…

[@jason.martin]

Great info, this answered my other quesiton

[@brianpimental2948]

Have you ever considered Green Stone Building Products wall systems? If so, what are your thoughts?

[@2point..0]

We plan on building in Zone 6 and the Sill plate (1) 2 x 8 pt bottom and (2) 2 x 6 pt top to allow the Zip system R-6 to have a shelf effect to catch it, and seal with Zip tape to wrap over and under, and metal flashing and below and liquid applied sealer as the foundation will be I.C.F... Liked and Subscribed!!!

[@RobertMartin-s2v]

Zone 6 why not continual insulation to below grade? Code in my state is insulate exterior of the foundation or your basement ceiling, which is usually what builders choose as it’s cheaper and easier…. But your mechanical is then in unheated space, less conditioned space that can be used or converted to living space, and when power goes out you don’t have the benefit of dozens of tons of concrete, buried in a geothermal battery, to help cool or heat your home.

[@2point..0]

@@RobertMartin-s2v Hi Robert, I am insulating below grade as my Foundation will be I.C.F.'s = Insulated Concrete Forms and my subfloor will be hung from a ledgerboard attached flush on the inside of the ICF basement wall...

[@MichaelJ674]

I like it! Makes sense to me.

[@2point..0]

@@MichaelJ674 I hope it works as I see it, ha ha ha!!!

[@PDSalling]

Good points.

[@theangrypainter826]

We use it on all new cons on the mainland.No major issues yet. We do not use it on coastal projects . There we use plywood and one of the wraps. And ice and water shield.

[@bradmitchell4936]

I’ve got to think that liquid applied seam sealer although costlier is definitely the best practice for seams with zip

[@MichaelJ674]

Not necessarily as Liquid Flash requires more skill and care to install than Zip Tape and is a lot messier. A brand new apprentice that is reasonably detail oriented can install and roll the tape with a couple hours of training (and periodic spot checking by the foreman). One advantage of using Liquid Flash is that you can hit any overdriven nails and any other nicks in the WRB surface as you work your way around the perimeter. You can carry some Liquid Flash to use for this purpose as you tape (or go back and hit those spots later), but it’s easier and usually more successful to focus on one task at a time. From what I’ve seen, it comes down to personal preference and cost. I don’t think there are any advantages from a building science perspective with either method if done correctly.

[@phamlam3720]

I applied liquid flash over horizontal zip taped seam. Minimize use of liquid flash but add extra protection to reverse lap joint

[@MichaelJ674]

@phamlam3720 Nice! Sounds like a solid approach for a little extra protection.

[@DerekBMoore]

I like your architectural ideas, isn't the obvious question are they going to do zip on plywood instead of osb?

[@MurDocInc]

Huber mill doesn`t make plywood, only OSB products. They would need to partner/buy/build a new mill.

[@artiebrown6353]

A good home builder should make any installed exterior OSB/plywood (roof or walls) dry by the end of the work day. #15 roofing felt is cheap and can be installed quickly with a staple gun. There's no excuse for wet exterior OSB or plywood in my opinion. Also, 2 layers of continuous exterior insulation (polyiso is cheap and a good rigid insulation) outboard of taped seams OSB sheathing with an air barrier (btw 2 plies of #30 roofing felt over taped OSB sheathing IS an air barrier) with 2 layers of low-density mineral wool insulation between 2x6 studs is the way to go if you want good value walls and roofs. Too many manufacturers are adding bells and whistles to their products so they can jack up the price. Sometimes it's worth the price, most of the time it isn't. Also, use a cheap spray adhesive/primer (compatible with your tape) makes tape stick much better.

[@phamlam3720]

@@artiebrown6353 good is the key word. All the major home builders don’t care.

[@MichaelJ674]

Totally agree with you. That said, finding a good home builder who is not backed up with other work for months or even years is increasingly difficult for a variety of reasons that have been well documented elsewhere. Systems like Zip sheathing that are relatively easy to install and verify proper installation for (look for the Z imprinted into the tape from the roller for example) can reduce the complexity of building a good envelope because good building science is already baked in. As this channel consistently emphasizes, however, there is no one right way to do things, and the right way to do things in one place is often wrong for another place. That’s why I enjoy hearing what others have to say in the comments based on their experience in different locations.

[@10tenman10]

I'm pretty sure that every video done by Matt Risinger is sponsored by Zip

[@Ponchodvr4lfe]

Builders FirstSource, Polyguard, Huber, Rockwool & Viewrail are all title sponsors. He doesn't hide it.

[@djsparkyy]

For the zip R, isn't there some sort of sealant that you could put on the joints during the initial construction so the the joint is completely sealed? Perhaps that liquid joint compound?

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

With an unlimited budget i would use plywood and a fluid applied WRB. But unfortunately that gets crazy expensive so my new house (2025) will have ZIP plus a few inches of exterior insulation and a rainscreen. Hoping that setup keeps the structure happy for many decades.

[@collin9085]

Exterior insulation seems like it would be just as expensive as fluid applied. Really depends on your climate on which approach would be better to spend the money on given these two options.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

@collin9085 Exterior insulation is necessary no matter what WRB is being used.

[@paybax]

No way to fluid applied, peel and stick is more consistent.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

@paybax Also great. They both have their pros and cons.

[@DitDitDitDahDahDahDitDitDit]

With all those fluid applied materials you have some kind of solvent that will off-gas VOCs, and that could be a huge problems with a fully encompassing, somewhat thick, layer of applied material, especially on an already tight house. Look carefully at the formulation of these fluid materials before you buy them. Getting to the point where you don’t smell the solvent any more doesn’t mean that the off-gassing levels have become “safe.” Low level exposures over a long time can cause cancer, developmental disorders, allergies, and God-only knows what else. There are easy ways to test buildings for all kinds of chemicals and one hopes that work will be required of the manufacturer by government regulations intended to protect our health. (Love the regulations I want!) I’ll have a chat with Bobby Kennedy and see what he thinks…

[@ardentenquirer8573]

excellent info

[@Luis-l6y4k]

I was just on a building site & I noticed that the framers were driving the nails & breaking the green vapor/weather barrier & not taping all the nails. My question was, if they don't tape off the nail heads that broke through the green barrier, does this compromise the air barrier & envelope?

[@tpatton7898]

…very surprised that he missed that the Huber installation sheet requires the tape cannot be installed if its raining or has rained and made the substrate wet 😳 “..Install only in dry conditions and on dry surfaces..”…the photos that showed what happens if the tape is not immediately applied are concerning….what happens if we have a week of intermittent rain? does the framing crew take an unpaid vacation? doubt it…they will tape it anyway (and possibly void the Huber warranty). Risinger says…oh..well if its wet…then just break out the sausage tubes of Huber liquid flash since it can be applied on wet surfaces…💵💵💵…I love Matt…but cost plus custom builders have very poor cost control incentives. Surprised he did not mention the over-driven nail problem and what they need to do when that happens…and who is going up the ladder later to QC check for them?

[@chadspurling7411]

FWIW, Dymonic 100 Polyester caulk is rated for ZIP, is pretty much the same as the ZIP liquid flash, and is waaaayyyy Cheaper.

[@steveperreira5850]

@@chadspurling7411: Do whatever you want with those joints it is not going to pass the test of time on large scale layout like this, with 4 x 8‘ plywood. Zip and others test all of this stuff under ideal conditions and get it qualified and approved. Meanwhile, good old tarpaper, goes on under any conditions and it overlaps. Any system that does not overlap is doomed!! Dooooooooomed!!

[@antoniiocaluso1071]

heck...its kinda FUN to hand-wrap a structure with a big roll ! Seriously, and AFTER the fasteners have all been placed, its easy to staple it OVER all that. Some Design, some Build,...some of us do BOTH 🙂 more FUN that way!! keeps ya young, kids ))) [ ol' dude from SW FL, USA, with my 1st ECOhome here in '82. waay-back :-) ]

[@Ariccio123]

Interesting. I've been seeing a lot of it going up around the east end of long island - sure seems better than the cruddy housewraps that they penetrate with a trillion staples and nails! I want to hear if rockwool comfort board would be good in this climate too.

[@MichaelJ674]

Comfortboard as exterior insulation is great in any climate! I like it in combination with a semi-permeable WRB so the walls can breathe a little for good drying potential without transferring much heat. Combine with Comfortbatt between the studs and a smart vapor barrier such as Siga Majrex (or even just two coats of latex paint if humidity control isn’t an issue) and you have just about a perfect wall (with thanks to Joe Lstiburek at Building Science Corporation).

[@donready119]

Zip should upgrade to plywood here in Canada. I do not use OSB.

[@Drimirin]

Dumb.

[@ggc7318]

Great lessons 👍

[@sumerfun01]

Forty years on job site, seen all the ,latest greatest newest products come and go...when I demo shit the best, least rotten system and moldy system is still fiberglass, plywood and black paper, big overhangs and properly installed and insulated windows and doors...in northern Vermont...

[@WayneMarion]

Same experience for me in northern New Jersey.

[@kelvinharkins9005]

Thank you 😊

[@coreyfro]

Commenting to float this video in the algorithm

[@DitDitDitDahDahDahDitDitDit]

Great video. New information! Why not make Zip with insulation on both sides? (Possibly using different insulating materials on the interior and exterior faces.) They could put wells or plastic nailing strips on the exterior face so the nailer could nail effectively. Fewer, but larger, nails would reduce the number of penetrations. Larger nails may even be structurally superior. A question then might be whether the sheathing needs an integrated water repellant surface at all. It may be possible to tape or otherwise seal the exterior insulated surface. I imaging Huber and other companies are looking at alternative fabrications of all the insulating materials that exist. If we can go to the moon, we should be able to create products, possibly out of wood, maybe out of all the waste plastic we generate, that are better than those we have now. One could envision glues and gluing processes that would render the sheathing itself water impermeable. And 100% pest resistant.

[@coasttal123]

Every place you have a hard break in materials, such as foam to rockwool, you create a potential condensation surface. Moisture will not condense within a solid homogenous material. This is why so many problems are encountered with flash and batt installs. Regarding larger nails. Senco only makes a gun that will shoot up to 16d. Sometimes screws are the answer but the price goes up significantly for the screw and labor. Additionally, never design something so difficult a framer cannot do it consistently.

[@MurDocInc]

Steve Baczek has nice detail of extending sill plate to go under the zip-r. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWTCdWuLaKahrNEsi=JV7H29tGB1_5c4XZ&t=189 An air tight vapor retarder on interior should lower the risk of condensation on sheathing in cold climate, in Canada it`s required by code. I like zip system but in Canada it`s hard to get, it`s not like US where you can drive to big box store, has to be special order.

[@nextjin]

Does normal vinyl siding need a rain screen?

[@brandonbeaty6617]

Any form of siding will benefit from a rain screen. No siding is 100% impenetrable; if water gets behind it, you want a way for the water to quickly escape. For vinyl siding specifically, if you pressure wash it annually, you run a very high chance of water getting behind the siding in the process. A rain screen allows it to quickly dry and not be trapped inside your wall.

[@Mostviews111]

So wouldn't plywood with fluid sealant be a better solution if it has the same perms?

[@ASIRIDesigns]

Bingo!

[@PatrickKniesler]

3:14 What in the OSHA is that?

[@machinesandthings7121]

Great vid.

[@Leonidimus59]

Can I use Rockwool Comfortboard outside of ZIP, instead of rigid insulation? Is it an issue that Rockwool is water-permeable?

[@jkleem4234]

@ 5:13 how are furring strips fastened to the wall assembly? 4 inch nails/ screws into studs?

[@ForrestGums]

Do you know of specific studies completed evaluating acrylic self-adhered membranes' (SAM) performance over the long-term when subjected to heating and cooling? I'm attempting to visualize the condition of the tapes after twenthy or thirty summers and winters. If you do, care to provide a link? A concern I have with this product is if the SAM fails, it will direct water into your wall assembly at the horizontal joints. Similar problem if the membrane is poorly installed (lack of rolling, fishmouths, etc.) as you mentioned. Specifying the liquid-applied product for all horizontal joints and the tape on the vertical joints (cost and time savings, potentially) may be a reasonable solution. Most manufacturer's I'm familiar with who produce SAMs require all negative laps to be sealed with a tooled bead of compatible sealant, but that doesn't appear to be the case with Huber. I wouldn't be upset if the negative laps were also reinforced with staples prior to the application of the tooled sealant bead to help further reduce risk.

[@steveperreira5850]

At face value is stupid to build some thing like zip system. As you say, any failure at all and water is coming in at the horizontal Joints. My house is stucco, I did it myself. I put the highest quality double layer tarpaper over OSB sheathing. It will be at least 50 years before there is a problem even though I live in severe climate. I’m talking about a problem with the Tarpaper. With roof overhang and the excellent stucco job that I did, way better than professionals, even if I had no tarpaper at all, I would never have any leaks. I don’t have cracks in my stucco because I followed instructions, not just shoveled this and shovel that, actually measured things

[@gregcharland]

Who are these videos meant for, a "perspective home buyer" or a "production builder"? Please and thank you.

[@chadspurling7411]

FWIW, when we did our house, we even threw a piece of duct tape over the zip at the upper edge of the wallplate because we knew it was going to be a while before we got the roof on and I didn't want to deal with that edge swelling, either. Also, quite frankly, I would never put foam insulation outside of any wood based product. Yeah, the Zip barrier is good, but I've seen some disasters with water intrusion into foam and OSB and in my opinion putting foam over Zip is just asking for it unless your water management is perfect.

[@ASIRIDesigns]

@@chadspurling7411 Yep, that's why we actually drain the space between the rigid insulation and the surface of the WRB, either by using a drainable WRB, a textured drainable rigid insulation product, vertical beads of construction adhesive or sealant applied to the backside of the insulation, etc. It's certainly an important consideration.

[@chadspurling7411]

@@ASIRIDesigns I get it. It's just such a difficult detail to get right and so important. I've fixed a lot of water damage around windows and doors over the years, and it makes me really skeptical of any system that could potentially trap moisture between foam and sheeting of any kind.

[@FrederVision]

I used zip on my 2000sq ft. I would skip the roof next time and just do a peel and stick. Zip is very easy to mess up.

[@steveperreira5850]

And just think how much the weather cycles and seasonal expansion and contraction is going to mess with that thin thin tape lapping!! Down the road, zip is doomed

[@FreekHoekstra]

I honestly wish there was a zip variant that uses actual plywood. Would happily pay the extra couple dollars

[@juzoli]

If I’m building my own house where I plan to live for a long time, ZIP is the best, and not that much more expensive. But if I plan to move on in a few years, or building for someone else to begin with, this is an additional cost you cannot transfer to the buyer. It worths it, but it is hard to explain to most people that it worths the investment.

[@rafflesmaos]

If people are making all these upgrades to their wood framing, they should just spend a tiny bit more and go with something properly sturdy like ICF.

[@multipotentialite]

What's the best class of products to use with plywood? Fluid applied? Peel and stick? House wrap?

[@MurDocInc]

Self adhered for cost and performance.

[@steven7650]

It cost me an extra trip around the house. I ran 1.5" of xps first taped with the corning tape, THEN i ran zip 5/5" on the walls and taped that plus closed cell spray foam in the walls. Shit will outlast me.

[@histershellac2842]

in my coastal marine zone 4 there are means and methods with more time tested performance that i have trusted for over a decade. lets just say its sticky stuff from Europe. and occasionally Sausage tubes of Henry's blue goo.

[@lightning9279]

Nice video. 👍 Will that "tape" last for over a hundred plus years. No. Sometimes it better not being the cool kids on the block doing what others are do.

[@steveperreira5850]

Exactly my sentiments. I’ve been in building a long time and this is ZIP system will be avoided by me like the plague. Look at all the stupid things you have to do just to protect a thin layer of tape that is obviously the weakest link and is 100% guaranteed to fail quickly!! Best house I ever did was when I was commissioned to design a log cabin built from 6 x 8 soft wood logs, sugar pine and cedar mix. I designed a simple way to seal the joints without any caulking, and also to assemble the corners without overlapping. I’m an engineer so that’s my job. When the house went together, what a thing of beauty, and only one layer of wall material, the logs!! Who would have thunk? As for my own house, OSB sheathing on stick frame, stucco exterior, and behind that are two layers of the highest quality tarpaper. Even though I’m in a harsh environment it will last 100 years. Especially since I did all the work myself and it’s the best stucco I’ve ever seen, Only the tiniest of hairline cracks here and there, no major separation. It’s because I followed the instructions from the Portland cement association, something that con-qwackters pretty much never do

[@steveperreira5850]

You have the best comment I’ve seen. I’m so sick and tired of this trendy stuff that doesn’t even make sense at first glance!!

[@christopherholloway8192]

What are your thoughts on reducing condensation risk on the back of zip sheathing during heating seasons in cold climates by using a smart vapor retarder just inside the drywall on exterior walls to reduce the movement of vapor into the wall assembly. Is this worth the cost if you dont use exterior insulation for whatever reason?

[@ASIRIDesigns]

We use smart vapor retarders all the time, we're big fans of Intello from Pro Clima. It's a great option if rigid insulation isn't in the budget or if it's logistically difficult, as long as the seams in the membrane are taped to be airtight.

[@johnhaller5851]

You have to be careful about every penetration, like electrical boxes full of holes, and water piping in exterior walls, and window/doors. Water is good at finding its way, and water vapor is better. The partial pressure of water vapor can push a lot of water vapor into an area with a lower partial pressure of water vapor. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot of attention to detail required, like with any system. I wouldn't expect to see it done right in a volume builder home.

[@rangelinehomes]

@@ASIRIDesignscan you use smart vapor retarders WITHOUT installing a utility cavity?? Meaning, directly onto the studs and directly behind the drywall…??

[@YIQUANONE]

I priced the ZIP sheets and they went from under $30 a sheet to $50 a sheet for an OSB product which you can buy for around $20 a sheet. The perm rating for these is considerably lower than plywood, so problems could occur down the road.

[@jlpaints]

I just built a high end house, and the price was just too high even for that type of build.

[@truthteller50]

It’s good to point out limitations and the fact that joints need to be taped properly. But compare that to the crappy install of most tyvek-like wraps this is mostly a joke.

[@troycarpenter3675]

Osb w/ green primer

[@keithwingo514]

Wouldn't spacer boards on the backside of the siding create a gap for pests?

[@ASIRIDesigns]

Short answer is not really (you'd have to have a pretty substantial gap), but we always call for a bugscreen at the top and bottom for redundancy, especially if we have rigid foam being installed on the outside.

[@WayneMarion]

You are correct. This gap and rainscreen is just the latest thing. It's pure nonsense. What next? A rainscreen over the rainscreen, and then maybe another rainscreen for good measure. Just frame sheath and side with proper flashing and caulk correctly installed the first time, like was done successfully for decades in the past. Anyone seeing videos for these products would think that ALL OLD houses are full of mold and water and ready to fall down. Couldn't be farther from the truth. The mold, water intrusion and decay is in these newer man-made products. I'm looking at you OSB. And I'm old enough to remember when that crap came out and it was called Aspenite.

[@PNdebt-hc2tg]

I see inexperienced builders using Zip and then not flashing in the windows and doors. They think that because it is water resistant flashing tape is not needed or something? Maybe they never learned properly? I drive by these jobs and see the siding going up w/ no tape installed properly. And we have a mold and rot epidemic in the USA right now.. Pretty sad.

[@Tratios]

I mean are there issues, always but its light years better then old school house wrap. Both Zip or Advantech etc are hands down better. Plus house wrap became a thing because OSB and water do not get along and OSB was cheaper then plywood.

[@ASIRIDesigns]

@@Tratios Yep we would certainly agree, our preference these days is either a self adhered or fluid applied membrane on plywood. If we can't get that, ZIP works with adult supervision 😜

[@ricecrash5225]

I prefer a wrap

[@jackjmaheriii]

Exterior insulation plus rain screen is expensive. Zip-R 9 and 1 (or 1.5”) of closed cell, and filling the cavity with cellulose is cheaper and more robust. Sequencing matters though, so insulation absolutely positively needs to be the last step before rock.

[@collin9085]

People already complain that houses cost $300/sq foot to build. Obviously if money is no object, go ahead and build a super expensive house. I have seen builders who charge 500-800 per square foot. But at some point you are essentially paying for 2 homes. It's just like standing seam aluminum roofs. I tell clients that they are nice, but they will take 60 years to pay themselves off vs. shingles. Are you going to even live another 60 years?

[@jackjmaheriii]

@@collin9085 You’re not wrong. But part of the problem with the housing crisis is that American homes are pretty worn out after 50 years.

[@Nilezy]

@@collin9085 Sure, they complain about the cost if you live within 6000 kms of the equator. But if you want to complain about the cost /sq foot In a region north of that because you cheaped out on what I consider a must spend in a house build, I guarantee they will be complaining in the winter how cold the house is or how much the bill is to heat it regardless of the fuel source. I know, my house in Canada was built with 2x4 stud walls and crappy pink bat insulation and is swiss cheese and the bill to heat it when its not even that cold outside is stupid. I compared my house to the neighbours who, admittedly was built 20 years later, but doesn't have the heat on and the difference is remarkable. I would take any metal roofing product over shingles. Shingles are cheaper because they are crap! Stupidly short service life (Ask the insurance companies that require you to re-shingle well before the quote manufacturer's lifespan else you won't get insurance!) and don't get me started on the environmental impacts of the waste when shingles are disposed. Just because you won't live past the metal roof's lifespan, the house should for the next owner so they don't have to fork out to replace the roof every 10 years

[@collin9085]

@@jackjmaheriii My home is 63 years old. It's in great shape. I think exterior insulation or zip wall wont even make a negligible difference for housing supply in the future. If you house was going to get moisture and mold issues, it would have done so in the first few years (let alone first decade). But I also highly disagree about the cause of the "housing crisis" (and I don't even believe there is one). Raw land values have shot through the roof. So it's not about houses. It's about asset prices. I could go on and one, but I don't want to get off in the weeds. But I will add that making houses more expensive to build with more expensive techniques really needs to be evaluated, or it will be impossible to build starter homes. It's already very difficult to make a profit on starter homes due to land prices.

[@MichaelJ674]

@collin9085 Really enjoying your comments today! I would imagine your 63 year-old home is in great shape because it’s relatively leaky allowing it to dry out easily when water vapor gets into the walls and ceilings/roofs. Building codes in most of the country simply don’t allow building leaky homes anymore plus most of the people frequenting this channel want a high-performance, energy-efficient home with good IAQ. So you have to dive pretty deep into the building science to achieve a house that checks all those boxes and is both durable and resilient. And yes, that house is going to be a lot more expensive than one built to mid-20th century standards.

[@deerhunter7482]

It is if you install the zip r with 2” insulation,the thermal barrier will be broken !

[@LuminairPrime]

Waterproof sheathing that just needs tape is a brilliant invention that I hope will become ubiquitous. On the other hand, sheathing with spray foam pre-applied is asking for vapor barrier problems (condensation) and so that tech should only be specified by an engineer in the proper situation and climate. No matter what people say about Zip failures, it's not failing as bad as Tyvek. And Tyvek is great; but we can do better now.

[@collin9085]

Zip is already ubiquitous. I see more zip than anything here in the southeast. But "just needs tape" is naive sentiment since taping all of the seams and penetrations is far more work than rolling out house wrap. You can house wrap an entire 2 story house in like 3 hours with 2 guys. Also, I don't recommend Tyvek unless in a cold climate, I would use typar, hydro-gap, etc. Much better products.

[@MichaelJ674]

Totally agree with you, @collin9085. There are so many different ways to accomplish your performance goals these days, and it really comes down to thinking of the building envelope as a system and then selecting the best approach for your specific climate, performance goals, and budget. That’s why I love this channel so much-it gives lots of options and approaches but always from the perspective of sound building science without being influenced by sponsorships.

[@MrSteeDoo]

I can't easily tell "if it's worth it" because it's a secret as to how much it costs. At least with regular plywood or OSB I can check the price online at a big box.

[@scott31577]

$40 a sheet at Lowes

[@MrSteeDoo]

@@scott31577 Thank you.

[@MrSteeDoo]

@@scott31577 Even cheaper ($34) for 1/2" apparently

[@radiationroom]

Zip is still OSB.

[@headcas620]

"Is it it worth it if you're not a building products shill with a name that rhymes with fatt fisinger"

[@h2s-i9o]

Plywood + blueskin

[@coasttal123]

Let's see, I put plywood on for drying potential, then put a non permeable coating on it. Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it.

[@piginapancake]

@@coasttal123 Blueskin vp100 has a perm rating of 33

[@ajfreeze215]

@@piginapancakeI guess he’s not an engineer either??

[@MurDocInc]

@@ajfreeze215 to be fair, there`s impermeable blueskin too

[@ModernCowboy78]

Zip is worth it full stop!

[@johnwhite2576]

I have NEVER seen interior corners adequately flashed /rolled on zip system. At a minimum, use zip liquid flash on INSIDE exterior corners. A strong case can also be made for liquid on horizontal seams as well. Finally, ZIP for roofing will ALWASY leak a small amount for same reason- I don’t care HOW carefully you roll the tape , or even the temperature. Unless your are wiping the seams down with mineral spirits to clean surface shaded of time rain WILL get through at a spot or two. It’s NOT worth not he money . Roll put two- layers of jumbo tech and use the money you save for using a rain screen , another layer of jumbo tech, or ice/water shield adherent. Frankly I would just skip sob altogether on any roof. This si snOT where clients should be looking to save money.

[@EdensRemorse]

way too much influence from sponsors these days... thank you for trying to be a voice of reason

[@guitarplayer1434]

zip and house wrap was lobbied into place , if you maintain the siding , there is know difference. I say this as one that fixes both every day

[@davidbruce5377]

Just to prove the ubiquitous nature of this product - my You tube feed is full of Zip videos.

[@PacoOtis]

Infomercial!

[@anthonyjeromejr.6808]

This application isn’t worth it in my option, there is to much that can go wrong with the installment process if not done 100 % correctly. Its no better then just regular plywood, all these special taping, and rubber this and that, is just a way to make money for Big corporations. The bottom line is, if your exterior application of whatever your final siding is isn’t installed correctly your going to get rot or mold period. And this includes all these shower waterproof applications as well

[@superamazingexpertfantasti6593]

Come on. Please just finish the thought with the obvious comparison - plywood and R-Guard, perhaps? Plywood and Blueskin? OSB and Majvest? There are only so many combinations of type of flat engineered wood + wrap, the topic seems ripe for 1 final video describing the possibilities within the framework. Zip is just prefab fluid applied, right? Explain these choices in dimensions - cost, permeability, reliability (sunlight seems to wipe out R-Guard?) assuming the customer is already sold on the concept - that is, they already find the idea 'worth it' to some degree, and they are looking for a comprehensive explanation of the choices and tradeoffs instead of a siloed review of 1 buildout. Then another video can get into how hard each is to actually get the detailing right within each choice, and yet another video can explain systems are departures from the wood + wrap paradigm (like DensGlass, perhaps?)

[@stevenleiler9034]

I don't see how you can say, " you save on labor" and then list 8 things that you should do wile using this system. we just roll out the house wrap wile the wall is down lap and tape the corners after its up. The last house we did here in zone 5 we passed the blower door test by so much they did it twice just to be sure. and don't get me started on the cost difference.

[@ChrisMaveric]

Air flow is your friend, when managed properly.

[@franklempka2159]

Osb junk, 7/16th is terrible!

[@KylesRV]

Basically building a house worth several hundred thousand dollars and using crappy OSB with a 30 year limited warranty. No thanks.

[@Drimirin]

All the OSB haters are cracking me up. Thanks for the laugh you clowns.

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

Zip system is evil. It may be great for insulation but is flammable and highly toxic when that polyiso insulation and OSB burn. I question the longevity of this product especially in humid and high precipitation environments if installed incorrectly even slightly.

[@randyscrafts8575]

I think it's a good idea but not worth the price. I'll never use it.

[@berrypainter]

A totally bad product and the recommended sidewalls are a joke. The underlying problem is that the folks who build houses do not repair houses so they do not know how detrimental modern products are to a building. All the chipboard products are not a long lasting alternative to actual solid WOOD.

[@FEV369]

At some point you wonder why they don't just do ICF and solve most the problems caused by an endless stacking of fixes over weaker systems.

[@coasttal123]

Termites is why. Could not find a single exterminator company that would warrant termite protection if I built with ICF.

[@joehuinker7009]

Zipping dollars from your wallet!!

[@johnhoyle6390]

"water can cause the ends of the board to swell and shrink"

[@christophertaylor3001]

Painted OSB complete rip off

[@DeadStump1]

The more I learn about building science the more I seem to be leaning towards double stud walls. Zip and foam insulation are overpriced anyways. I'll take my CDX and 'smart' WRB.

[@MurDocInc]

Yep for a cost of

[@HomesteadingAlaskatoMaine]

FOR the cost, HELL NO!!

[@MobtacticsBruh]

No it is not. End video.