Iconoclasm is a youth movement | Rosie Kay | Battle of Ideas 2024

[@foreignparticle1320]

YES. Thank you. I really wish I could've been in this room. It gets pretty lonely working in the arts industry these days when you're not prepared to kowtow to the prevailing anti-liberal political dogma.

[@McNoiseboy]

Oh man, I so agree with you. I'm a technician in the arts - quite often in the dance world - and although I occasionally detect some of my co-workers starting to wake up to the nonsense it is like working in a parallel universe. I'm desperate to work with companies, venues and/or organisations like Freedom in the Arts that are aware of the ideologies and are resolutely NOT kowtowing to them. I have so much respect for Rosie Kay. She's an inspiration!

[@Nah_Bohdi]

Haha, yeah, the "anti-liberals" are festering in every corner of art academia, television, government progroms, even STEM... 😂😂😂 Delusional, youre tasting the burn you delivered for 60 years, youre feeling "equality" for the first time and confuse it with persecution; youre anti-Equal; tyrant minded drone. Arts are polluted and trash, go sell a banana tapes to the wall for €1.3 million and call it "exptessionist".

[@benstanbridge763]

Absolutely. I am a film composer and work a lot in the independent film scene. The festivals and events I go to have almost no feelings of English culture. They are just a strange mash of international films that all lean very strongly in the liberal ideology. Last festival I went to I decided to take time out to go to a Catholic service as I felt so uncomfortable and out of touch. I can only discribe the feeling as suppressed grief.

[@designedforlifecoaching4007]

Look at the lack of depth in new TV series, Netflix, Disney. The only freedom of expression I see most often is woke DEI box ticking, poor stories, poor acting, just lack of imagination

[@hariseldon3786]

I find it as simple as the very Marxist idea of The "Four Olds" (四旧, Sì jiù) were a set of cultural targets aimed at being eliminated during the Cultural Revolution in China, which was initiated by Mao Zedong in 1966. The Four Olds were: Old Customs (旧风俗): This referred to traditional Chinese customs and practices, such as cultural norms, ceremonies, and festivals that were seen as outdated or feudal by the Communist Party. These were viewed as hindrances to the development of a socialist society. Old Culture (旧文化): This encompassed the traditional cultural heritage of China, including classical literature, art, philosophy, and historical artifacts, which were considered to perpetuate conservative, reactionary ideologies. Old Habits (旧习惯): This referred to old ways of thinking, behaviors, and social practices, such as class distinctions, deference to authority, and hierarchical relationships, which were deemed obstacles to the creation of a more egalitarian society. Old Ideas (旧思想): This focused on eliminating traditional and conservative beliefs, ideologies, and philosophical teachings that were seen as incompatible with Communist ideology. These included Confucianism, Buddhism, and other schools of thought that were considered counter-revolutionary. During the Cultural Revolution, the Red Guards (a youth militia supporting Mao's movement) were mobilized to attack and destroy these "Olds" through violent actions, including public denunciations, book burnings, the destruction of cultural relics, and persecution of intellectuals. The aim was to break away from China's feudal past and create a more radical, socialist future under Mao's leadership. APPLY THIS TO THE WEST.

[@kenjohnson6326]

There was nothing Marxist about the very Chinese political idea of the Four Olds and the present cultural iconoclasm and woke ideology has nothing to do with communism or Marxism and everything to do with capitalism.

[@hariseldon3786]

@@kenjohnson6326 You are incorrect. I don't have room here to elaborate fully but research the relationship between DEI and "WOKE" with particular emphasis on "Equity" and also the relationship between "Equity" and Marxism and you have your answer. If in some way you think that Chairman Mao's "Cultural Revolution" and the associated actions against the '4 Olds' and the 'struggle sessionc' that people endured are in any way associated with Capitalism then you are massively off-target.

[@kenjohnson6326]

@@hariseldon3786 I said the cultural revolution was same-old same-old ancient Chinese politics (read some of their history) and I said that today's DEI and Woke are aspects of corporate capitalism, aspects which have nothing to do with Marxism and everything to do with global capitalism.

[@hariseldon3786]

@@kenjohnson6326 ... and you are wrong on all accounts. And, having lived in China for 20 years and speaking both Mandarin and Cantonese and travel the whole country widely (doing factory inspections so we are talking 'not just the tourist spots') I am extremely well versed in Chinese history where I get it wrong my wife corrects me - and DEI and WOKE have a whole lot to do with Marxism - have a look at ESG objectives and "stakeholder capitalism" as proposed by the WEF and many universities - which isn't capitalism at all but rather a form of Communism - which is Marxist in origin. How about we leave it there so you can get on with your reading and research.

[@jeperstone]

Of course it does! 😂 Tell me you're a Marxist/Communist without telling me you're a Marxist/ Communist ​@kenjohnson6326

[@tompommerel2136]

BRILLIANT & TO THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@ing-mariekoppel1637]

An army of exclamation marks marching on.😊

[@immaterialimmaterial5195]

Hear hear. Bring back creativity, comedy and genuine diversity! 'Wokeism' is the fascism of today!

[@historymythology9778]

No,its marxism.

[@Phoenix-rising]

Wokeism is just an epitome of 68 and feminist culture. They are narcissistic sociopaths and we can't discuss or vote our way out of their rule.

[@OgamiItto432]

Interesting, she does not discuss the power of algorithms flattening creativity, pushing everything to a gray palatable gruel instead of allowing artwork to challenge us.

[@EliahHoliday]

I grew up amongst numerous subcultures, mostly centered around music; punk, post-punk, New Wave, Heavy Metal, Goth, Hip-Hop, Grunge, House music and Techno. Along with that we had our own dress codse and slang. We'd meet up at clubs and bars, it was very social and interactive. We weren't trying to make our scene part of the mainstream, we had our own subculture that we expressed ourselves apart from the status quo. I don't see that phenomenon so much any more, subcultures have dried up and the youth have been manipulated and incolcated into a mainstream politically correct cult like existance. Perhaps it's cliche but I do blame technology, primarily the internet and social media, as well as globalist who have been building an army of useful idiots to implement their agendas via fantasy-utopian ideologies. Like Rosie Kay said, people go to dance clubs and they don't even dance, instead they stand around staring at their smartphones. I'm glad to have been Gen X. We enjoyed so much of life that is no longer available today.

[@davidmiller4078]

Eloquently put lady very sad but true

[@Imperceptible_parachute]

THANK YOU.

[@paulpenfold2352]

It's what comes with free admission into art galleries. Charge people to enter and the balance of power shifts overnight. The argument about free admission meaning people from different groups are able to access great art is easily remedied by the funding of those huge coffee table art books you find in gallery gift shops for sending out to schools.

[@mileschurch67]

The smart phone and social media are very pernicious.

[@gearoiddom]

I don’t NEED them to have any culture at all. They can do what they want in that regard. I only need them to pay my pension.😂

[@Hindenzog]

I think it's easy to make wide, sweeping judgements about this sort of things, when the evidence might very well be different. I agree to an extent that things are not what they were, but feel it is just far more atomised in terms of culture than it was.

[@EugeneMurray-z1b]

While it is a concern... Iconoclasim is part of individuation The new generation must define themselves... And the 1st way of doing this is to challenge the icons of the previous... Otherwise they would never fly the nest voluntarily

[@tulyar57]

I beg to disagree. From what I see these are examples of attention seeking behaviours caused through low esteem and indicating pschological instability and/or personality disorders.

[@kenjohnson6326]

Yes, there's a lot of truth to that, but now each new generation is being deliberately and intensively manipulated and brainwashed, puppets surfing the next consumer wave (if that's not too soggy a metaphor).

[@FSR431]

Somewhat overstated here. I believe this generation is more neurotic than previous ones and that is its crisis. Nonetheless they do have culture though it seems to live largely in a digital world and in that tends to be incoherent.

[@latedinn]

yes i agree and i think the neuroticism comes from a life lived online. the neuroticism is then compounded upon re entry back into a real life social world that is at the mercy of culture and social cues that continue to move to the digital realm

[@mikehunt.1609]

Youth culture, which started with Rock and Roll in the 1950s was only ever a working class movement. Middle Class teenagers have always had a completely different motivation, which is to square the circle of their parents very conditional love or total lack of through some sort of achievement. So what do you do with all the failures? This is why young people are so dissalusioned, they have come out of University less capable than when they went in and so feel no hope of gaining their parents approval.

[@Fazzieman]

It is the Lisa Simpson form of Iconoclasm

[@Fazzieman]

The iconiclasm practised today is....well it is iconiclasm as practised by Lisa Simpson.

[@johnchristopher1463]

100%

[@cehu22]

Imagine starting a talk by stating that an entire generation neither has nor cares for culture. I can't take generalisations of this type seriously.

[@ing-mariekoppel1637]

Aren't algorithms the new gods?

[@alisdairmccabe7497]

Enshrining mediocrity

[@newpilgrim]

Why aren't young people interested in things like religion or spirituality, do you suppose? I discovered Buddhism at 25 and it rocked my world. Lack of exposure? It's all online.

[@kenjohnson6326]

Religion and spirituality are not compatible with corporate capitalism, that's why.

[@IK_1980]

Because this generation is trained to be malleable by marketing and dopamine. It lives content-free in absolute moralism about the world they feel is unfair to them. The path you propose is too long and too introspective. Their identity isnt personal.

[@gcndc]

Maybe because religion is made up stories that cause more harm than good?

[@petergurney4714]

I support you wholeheartedly in your nightmare with the deluded people who treated you so awfully, and yours and others stance on the whole issue, but - I grew up in the 60's and 70's - and an essential part of the creativity going on and the opportunities for expression back then was the freedom to Protest! Why have a go at people actually standing up and taking action - doing something? And the 1990's? that is exactly where the rot continued to set in - from mid to late 80's onwards.. characterised by dumbing-down and commercialising any hard-won political freedom movements, and any youth culture, and by daft post-modernist approaches to the Arts and Culture... disappointed by your confused outlook...

[@BernieTheBoxer]

Protest is not creative it is by absolute definition destructive, creativity is doing something new, not complaining about the old things and old ways. Disappointed by your confused understanding of the English language.

[@petergurney4714]

@@BernieTheBoxer Disappointed by your naive, underdeveloped, myopic misunderstanding of the nature of 'creativity'; but also your patronising as to another's use of the English Language! Life itself is a process of creativity - this involves the initial inspiration and impulse, informed by existing norms and valued conventions, with a thorough study and critical appraisal of same, involving thinking and yes, even the voicing and expressive on-the-edge acting-out through the 'protest' of expressing one's ideas, then a period of frustration, anxiety, involving chaos, some more likely intellectual and emotional 'protest', 'destruction' even, and reconstruction of the initial attempts, followed by a final eureka period, again informed not only by already valued and cultured norms and conventions, but also by considered thought and appraisal. Get back in the Ring lad, or perhaps should that be: 'heel, boy!'

[@gcndc]

Most of the students protesting today don't have a clue as to what they are protesting about. Like this speaker says, it is all about performance. At least in the 60s they were trying to stop a war that the US was in. Now they are trying to destroy artworks. How is that a good thing?

[@williambranch4283]

Every generation is like this now. Cope?

[@jamesgill6213]

yes...attention seeking.......mostly politicised young women

[@wiltonhudgens221]

I wonder how much art Israel's government and military are destroying? Has anyone considered sending them this video?

[@no-body-22]

Shove off. Israel is defending itself against Islamic terrorists who hate art and liberty. Don't like war? Don't be a terrorist and don't take hostages.

[@gcndc]

I wonder how much art was destroyed on Oct 7.

[@wiltonhudgens221]

@@gcndc Not nearly enough.