Gretta Vosper - Faith Without God

Gretta Vosper proposes that we do away with the notion of God as source, agent and promise, and replace that with the idea of bringing our own human wisdom to life’s challenges. She shares her experience of having established a religious community built on love, compassion, beauty and truth.
Gretta Vosper has been in the spotlight since founding the Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity in 2004. Her first book, With or Without God: Why the Way We Live is More Important Than What We Believe, quickly became a national bestseller and attracted media attention and debate across the country.

[@Eliusalmo1]

Faith without God is faith in the human being as a god..

[@edwardgrabczewski]

No. Think of it like this: Love is a concept created by humans; it's not a human being but it is a human concept. God is a concept created by humans; it too is not a human being but it is a human concept. If you can believe in love then you can believe in God. Like love, God helps to guide our lives. Some people even equate Love with God ("God is love") but the two are different but related concepts. We've been using the concept of God for millenia to represent all that is good and virtuous and to help us to live better lives. Greta appears to have gone beyond God in order to focus on the community or "church".

[@SteliosMusic]

​@@edwardgrabczewskiGod created humans; humans did not create God. What you are saying is backwards, illogical and blasphemous.

[@edwardgrabczewski]

@@SteliosMusic I was focussing on the concept of God. Some people think of God as a concept, without needing to think of God as the creator of the Universe. That's the way religious thinking has matured mainly in America, Britain and New Zealand over the past 50 years. "Backwards" from your perspective is forwards from a modern perspective. Logic can lead to disasterous conclusions. Blashpemy is relative to what you believe.

[@SteliosMusic]

@@edwardgrabczewski "Logic can lead to disastrous conclusions." Did you seriously just make this claim? Did you use logic to reach your "disastrous conclusion"? Discussion can not be had with a relativist/post-modernist. If you do not believe in absolute, objective truth, then anything you say is self-refuting. Some people believe ridiculous things and "concepts", I agree with you. But these are not true, and there is no proof or evidence to their opinions, so what does that have to do with anything?

[@edwardgrabczewski]

​@@SteliosMusic No, I used my brain! Here's an example of logical reasoning that could lead to a disastrous conclusion: Argument: "If it's medicine then it's beneficial; Morphine is a medicine; therefore, Morphine is beneficial" The previous paragraph follows the "modus ponens" form of logical argument, however the conclusion can be disastrous because the initial premise is false; many medicines taken in the wrong dose at the wrong time can be fatal. Morphine in particular can be addictive with potentially fatal consequences. Logical reasoning is always very limited in it's scope, unlike the human brain which can balance many thoughts and make complex decisions in a fraction of a second; how the brain works is still a mystery. Logic and mathematics are essential tools in science but it's still up to us humans to use our brains to judge the truth of a proposition using our understanding of the real world in its full complexity. Since no single human understands everything then we need communities of knowledgeable and wise people to help reach viable conclusions. But often these communities clash with one another as a consequence of their conclusions. Many religious organisations use logic, as well as wisdom, however the premises from which they deduce their logical arguments are often seen as flawed in the opinion of other communities. In the secular world we are told that we're free to believe what we choose, but by the same token we should tolerate the beliefs of others - provided those beliefs do no harm. Secular views have progressed to the stage where it is no longer acceptable to mandate a set of religious beliefs on those who do not choose to believe them. Few religious organisations subscribe to this principle. However, I must also add that I feel it is equally unacceptable for scientists to demean or denounce the religious beliefs of others. That is not SCIENCE. It's important to distinguish between SCIENCE and a scientists personal opinion. Today's scientific "facts" are tomorrow's scientific fallacies, meaning that scientific "facts" are themselves tentative BELIEFS. No scientist can foretell the next paradigm shift and they should acknowledge as much when some of them - quite arrogantly - profess that SCIENCE knows the truth about the Universe. I certainly respect their efforts, as long as they don't overplay their hand and show some intellectual honesty and humility about the nature of scientific knowledge. The scientific method is not equipped to deal with history. You cannot perform an experiment on an historical event, let alone repeat it. Therefore SCIENCE can neither prove nor disprove an historical event. SCIENCE can only stay silent on such matters; and that includes the creation of the Universe by God. Scientists who comment on religion do SCIENCE a disservice. Many scientists are mature when discussing SCIENCE but immature when discussing religion. The usual mistake they make is to assume that religion is all about believing in a supernatural God who created the Universe; this is a rather conservative and outdated viewpoint. People like Richard Dawkins are fighting a straw man in books like "The God Delusion". They often toss out the baby (religion) with the bathwater (God). Religion is actually about much more than just God and the afterlife. In this video, Greta Vosper touches on what religion is truly about. Is there an absolute or universal truth? It would have to be something that could be found in any part of the Universe at any time. What could that be? If it were something outside the Universe and timeless then how would we know?

[@kittienegro2339]

The fool says in his hearth there is no God they are corrupt they do abominable deeds there is none who does good psalm 14,1

[@davidb.4623]

She notes that the writers of the Bible were real people, but neglects that they all died for the Truth. I'm not sure that I would be martyred for a cause that I made up.

[@teelee7048]

so true!

[@teelee7048]

that won't help her sell HER stories ...... ; )

[@melissamybubbles6139]

People make the same argument about Joseph Smith. Did he really believe what he taught? Would he die for a religion he made up? Did make stuff up? Why, to make money? To help people? Does any of his teachings, ecclesiastical decisions, or personal life indicate whether anything he taught were literally or metaphorically true or false? Controversies over these issues is just as big a deal in mormonism as in Christianity.

[@dougroberts8723]

The authors of the Bible were obviously real people. Not "God". They were virtually all anonymous, so how they died, and why , is unknown. So your implication that the authors of the Bible were "martyred for a cause" they made up is pure fantasy.

[@olumideopatunmbi2877]

Boko haram are dying for islamic cause in Nigeria. People can be matyred for a lie

[@XXXFirebird76XXX]

Geez. Right off the bat she starts off with really weak theological beliefs. She commented about seeing all your loved ones in heaven, and then what would happen with her 3 husbands. It doesn't take much research to get answers to those questions. That's theology 101.

[@alphacause]

I have always believed that "progressive" Christianity or "liberal" Christianity, which seeks to demythologize Christian theology, is just a step towards atheism. Once you refashion Jesus into a metaphor, strip God of any interventionist power, and deny the existence of miracles, you might as well take the next logical leap. Why retain any of the Christian language, and all the baggage that comes with it? Just adopt a secular outlook and find meaning and purpose from serving your fellow man, and gaining a better understanding of the world. To me, trying to do what secular humanists do, but do it through the prism of Christian concepts, needlessly muddies the waters.

[@dougroberts8723]

I think you're missing the point. Gretta has found a way to drain the insanity out of a revealed religion., She is amazing!

[@jennywa3046]

This is a very disturbing presentation. What you have now is just a club, by the sound of it. Hopefully people in the congregation will find the truth somewhere. Hopefully this "church" makes it very clear that it is nothing to do with the true Christian church.

[@Metatron141]

A church interested only in programs and personality is dead in its sins and has no power.

[@dougroberts8723]

Some of the most meaningful and beautiful words. so poignant in today's World, when people still create war arguing about the insanity of Abrahamic religion. Thank you, Gretta Vosper, not just for your wisdom and honesty, but for your love for Humanity, and empathy for the indoctrinated fools, despite everything. You are leading the World in spiritual understanding.

[@9avedon]

Progressives have contaminated our schools, our churches and our legal system (SJW,s) There new God is the feminist State.

[@dougroberts8723]

@@9avedon Traditional religion has contaminated the entire planet, caused war, slavery, discrimination, hatred, and shackled the minds of billions and prevented spiritual awareness. Time to put the wickedness of theism to rest once and for all.

[@9avedon]

@@dougroberts8723 Progressives ,ah yes the ideology that killed a 100 million people in order to attain utopia. Western Christianity is the foundation of the Magna carta and the Declaration of Independence. Slavery was ended due to these ideals. Show me a country that has abandoned Christ and I can show that same country over run with Muslim extremists. The most murderous religion today sure as hell aint Christianity. How intellectually dishonest of you to blame Christians.

[@dougroberts8723]

@@9avedon Are you denying the murderous history of Christianity? Are you trying to claim that Christianity was responsible for the abolition of slavery? If so, perhaps you need to study your history and the Bible. Slavery is condoned in the Bible, indeed God declares that it's OK to beat your slaves to death, as long as they take more than two or three days to die. (Exodus 21:20-21)

[@dougroberts8723]

@@9avedon Of course I criticise the Qur'an. It teaches all the same violence, discrimination, homophobia, misogyny, slavery, warmongering and hatred that the Bible does. They are simply two versions of the same fabricated stories. Christians are still burning witches alive, so sorry, I refuse to "show respect" to such vile ideologies. But I do respect Gretta Vosper for finding a solution for the future. Continuing to parrot the egregious fairy tales of the Abrahamic religions can only end in tears and destruction

[@dhch40]

The UCC started on a very slippery theological slope many years ago, and she is wanting to take them where this slope should logically go. Kudos to UCC for finally putting the brakes on.

[@pbilk]

Kudos to them but something in the leadership must have changed because now they are allowing her to continue preaching.

[@bradenevans514]

Matthew 24 says everything I need to know about these days and times. She is right about the left side of her brain. Left- Liberalism

[@ceciliavaldevenito3933]

TREMENDO SE CUMPLE LA PALABRA. APOSTATAS DE LA FE.. UNA VIDA VACÍA, SIN NADA DE DIOS EN SU CORAZÓN, SERÁ TREMENDO PARA ELLA EL DÍA QUE ESTE PARADA DELANTE DEL SEÑOR DIOS TODO PODEROSO... EN LO PERSONAL CREÓ QUE DIOS TENDRÁ MAS MISERICORDIA DE SUS TRES ESPOSOS QUE DE ELLA MISMA, JAMASSSSS A CONOCIDO EL AMOR DE CRISTO...

[@santi2738]

Pues no hay que juzgarla, cada quien a tenido un recorrido en su vida, lo importante esque inxite a la gente a ser el bien. Conozco Cristianos que creen en Cristo pero hacen mal al prójimo, conoci a uno que le monto los cachos a la esposa y ella se suicidó por que le dio muy duro.

[@mikew9537]

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB) 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

[@Quack_Shot]

This verse is so ironic, Paul didn’t write it and the author is deceiving the readers into thinking Paul wrote it.

[@janellehoffman9733]

She opens by stating she studied so long ago, she forgot. Clearly.

[@scmanska7258]

On the contrary. She learned... more.

[@ferrosjewellers4558]

@@scmanska7258 all she learned was to be rebellious again the Living God of the Bible. She has the spirit of antichrist. She hates God.

[@ferrosjewellers4558]

@@scmanska7258 all I see is a woman on stage who is going to burn in hell fire. She will be tormented for eternity.

[@teelee7048]

let's see, I can live by the words of Jesus Christ, which man would NEVER come up with or, follow the same old world view, that we are our own god. I think I will follow the TRUTH!

[@Ckphoto80]

I'll add to the intro. "And she is a heretic."

[@luisramirez8127]

Esta mujer necesita liberación

[@daveytube]

lol, oh my! The One enthroned in the heavens laughs; the Lord taunts them. Then He rebukes them in His anger, and terrifies them in His fury...

[@nappyscribe1987]

Scold!

[@hyunbeenjo]

Gretta Vosper is a pastor who denied the existence of God but was allowed to continue her pastoral ministry. For a great number of reasons, she should be criticized and vilified. So should the United denomination who reached a settlement with her which allowed her pastoral leadership. However, I think what she says in the video is exactly what the vast majority of contemporary churchgoers are like today. In short, her belief is that God is a human construct. Yet, she thinks the action of forming a community to worship God (as a concept) can impact the community so positively that she has been fighting to maintain her pastorship. Today, the vast majority of Christians will not publicly say that they are atheists of course, but they go to church only to enjoy the activities of gathering or to meet friends. Never do they try to seek the moment to personally encounter God or go through an inner transformation to invite God to reveal himself in their life. (That was me only until a few years ago!) In a way, Vosper has been successful in making it a special kind of belief or religion. If that vast majority of Christians choose to follow Vosper, they will far outnumber the Christians who believe the living God. In my opinion, Vosper’s belief is a labor of very-hard theological studies devoid of encountering the living God in her daily life. (Plus, she emphasized that her theological studies reinforced her non-theistic view in the video.) The book called “A little book for new theologians” said that such a view is the great danger which theologians may confront, and theology should be there only to enrich one’s spiritual life continuing to communicate with the living Jesus Christ. It is so tragic that she has lived all those years of being raised in a Christian family, spending time with the fellowship in her childhood, studying theology, and ministering her own congregation as a pastor… all without meeting the God who is alive and at work. God has always been there, desperately seeking a moment to meet her or you. And as we speak, he is. Though we have done so little for him, he continues to give us more blessings and love us abundantly. By nature, we are simply full of human desires which make us forget we are image bearers of God. Therefore, we have to continue to read the Word and enjoy the graceful life. I think this can be a good mirror of what our churches are like. And I hope it can change.

[@anrose8335]

He, the god you believe in is male. No doubt about that!!! Now don't you deny it! (When I confront Christians about it, they always deny the gender of their god.) I'm sure glad I wasn't a wife of one of those old testament guys. I surely would not have let my husband take a little lamb - that was the children's dearest pet - in for slaughter upon the altar which was dedicated to "Him." To eat the lamb for one's own sustenance is one thing and bad enough, but to be made under moral compunction to offer up the innocent animal merely as a sacrifice to a god is barbaric. And now (for the last 2000 years), with the acceptance of Jesus's bloody sacrifice we are forced to remain barbarian. And not only that, we women have to believe in not only one but THREE male gods all rolled into one! Unbearable. UN-CHRISTIAN WOMEN UNITE!!!

[@hyunbeenjo]

@@anrose8335 Yes, the Scriptures repeatedly refer to God using male metaphors, which is not the same as ‘God is a male human being.’ The Old Testament avoids attributing sexual functions to God and refuses to endorse the idea that the gender and sexuality of God is a significant matter. In Genesis 1:27, God created humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and FEMALE he created them. Plus, in Isaiah 66:13, as a MOTHER comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem. Furthermore, by addressing God as FATHER, Jesus is indicating his own unique relationship to the Father as the Son, not because God is a male human being. Therefore, we can call God our FATHER as we have been joined to Christ and now stand in the Son’s intimate relation to the Father. A little lamb being killed as a sacrifice can be deemed barbaric from the perspective of human; however, from the viewpoint of God, a little lamb, a symbol of innocence or valuable possession for Israelites at that time, was a ‘religious’ method of people’s sins to be atoned. Of course, when Jesus was crucified, He replaced that ‘religious’ method. Jesus plays 3 key roles: (1) the lamb being sacrificed (2) the priest offering the sacrifice; and (3) the temple where the sacrifices happen. Because of Christ, people do not need that ‘religious’ method anymore, but instead, we do enjoy the relationship with God. The idea of humans being forced to remain barbarian or women being unbearable due to the perception of three ‘male gods(?) all rolled into one’ cannot be justifiable. That idea is bondage or slavery. Galatians 4:4-7, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir… Because of Jesus, we broke free from slavery, and we became heirs of God. That’s what we call, GRACE.

[@josephjohnson8212]

God hasn’t been there for me when I earnestly sought him. But I suppose that’s my fault, somehow? I can’t worship a God who remains hidden.

[@AnhTuPhucDerrickHoangCanada]

She started this over 10 years ago and over that time, when the cemetary was decommissioned all souls went to Hell. Your witness.

[@mikew9537]

Wolf in sheep's clothing

[@kitchipitchi]

I see the way she thinks, but she only asks questions from her religions perspective. Because she was raised in the united church, she would be raised differently than say a Catholic. As a Catholic myself, I can answer a few things she mentioned weren't answered. Yes, they may have not been answered in your church, but some other religions can answer that for you. Lets say the part where she says, "that Jesus died for our sins (though no one can be quite specific to what that actually means)" I learned how, that Jesus descended into hell to save the souls worthy of heaven, and he then ascended into heaven, and on the third day he rose again. This is in the Our Father too! So, instead of saying Christianity takes the bible too literally, she might want to check up what other religions believe (Whether they be Christian or not). Though, she has a good point that the bible writers were people just like us, who have struggles and problems as well. (Though in many religions it says the bible writers were inspired by the holy spirit as they wrote, but we won't get into that)

[@lizquiles5854]

Una mujer elocuente en su falta total de revelación de quien es Dios ella es solo una hablantina con un propósito muy claro que no tiene nada que ver con las cosas de Dios sino del enemigo, cuando tenga su revelación de quien es Dios y eso sí el tiene misericordia de ella todo lo que dice y sabe será basura como decía pablo

[@pbilk]

I support many of her ideas that she shares of community, creativity inside the church and more but not without God because those things are what the church, the body of Christ, the community in Christ is and should be. Now, I don't want to say many or some of those good things can't exist with communities that don't believe in God because I have seen that is not the case. I don't want to assume that this is fact but if this is the case it seems that as growing up she didn't experience and wasn't taught that or very little of that. That saddens me because that is damaging not just to her but to others. Some probably left the church completely, others held on maybe for religious reasons only (depending good works), others held on but aren't flourishing in their faith in God, others are flourishing in their faith in God and others stayed like Gretta but changed or lost the faith aspect, a bit like the religious only people (depending on good works).

[@jacobbrooks4947]

So if all the good parts are intact, doesn't that mean the role fearing punishment from God plays is kind of moot?

[@MxGardiner]

Did Jesus Really Exist? HE WAS neither rich nor powerful. He did not even have a home that he could call his own. Yet his teachings have influenced millions. Did Jesus Christ really exist? What do both modern and ancient authorities say? Michael Grant, a historian and an expert on ancient classical civilization, noted: “If we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned.” Rudolf Bultmann, a professor of New Testament studies, stated: “The doubt as to whether Jesus really existed is unfounded and not worth refutation. No sane person can doubt that Jesus stands as founder behind the historical movement whose first distinct stage is represented by the oldest Palestinian community [of Christians].” Will Durant, a historian, writer, and philosopher, wrote: “That a few simple men [the Gospel writers] should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels.” Albert Einstein, a German-born Jewish physicist, asserted: “I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.” When asked if he viewed Jesus as a historical person, he responded: “Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.” “No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus.”-Albert Einstein WHAT DOES HISTORY REVEAL? The most detailed record of Jesus’ life and ministry is recorded in the Bible accounts known as the Gospels-Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John-named after the men who wrote them. In addition, a number of early non-Christian sources name him. Tacitus TACITUS (c. 56-120 C.E., or Common Era) Tacitus is considered to be one of the greatest of the ancient Roman historians. His Annals deal with the Roman Empire from 14 C.E. to 68 C.E. (Jesus died in 33 C.E.) Tacitus wrote that when a great fire devastated Rome in 64 C.E., Emperor Nero was considered responsible. But Tacitus wrote that Nero accused the Christians in order to “scotch the rumour.” Then Tacitus said: “Christus, the founder of the name [Christian], had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus.”-Annals, XV, 44. Suetonius SUETONIUS (c. 69-a. 122 C.E.) In his Lives of the Caesars, this Roman historian recorded events during the reigns of the first 11 Roman emperors. The section on Claudius refers to turmoil among the Jews in Rome that was likely caused by disputes over Jesus. (Acts 18:2) Suetonius wrote: “Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christus], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.” (The Deified Claudius, XXV, 4) Although wrongly accusing Jesus of creating disturbances, Suetonius did not doubt his existence. Pliny the Younger PLINY THE YOUNGER (c. 61-113 C.E.) This Roman author and administrator in Bithynia (modern Turkey) wrote to Roman Emperor Trajan about how to deal with the Christians in that province. Pliny said that he tried to force Christians to recant, executing any who refused to do so. He explained: “Those who . . . repeated after me an invocation to the [pagan] Gods, and offered adoration, with wine and frankincense, to your image . . . and who finally cursed Christ . . . , I thought it proper to discharge.”-Pliny-Letters, Book X, XCVI. Flavius Josephus FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS (c. 37-100 C.E.) This Jewish priest and historian states that Annas, a Jewish high priest who continued to wield political influence, “convened the judges of the Sanhedrin [the Jewish high court] and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ.”-Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200. The Talmud THE TALMUD This collection of Jewish rabbinic writings, dating from the third to the sixth centuries C.E., shows that even Jesus’ enemies affirmed his existence. One passage says that on “the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] the Nazarean was hanged,” which is historically correct. (Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a, Munich Codex; see John 19:14-16.) Another states: “May we produce no son or pupil who disgraces himself in public like the Nazarene”-a title often applied to Jesus.-Babylonian Talmud, Berakoth 17b, footnote, Munich Codex; see Luke 18:37. EVIDENCE FROM THE BIBLE The Gospels give us a comprehensive account of Jesus’ life and ministry, including specific details about people, places, and times-the hallmarks of authentic history. An example is found at Luke 3:1, 2, which helps us to establish the exact date when a man named John the Baptist, a forerunner of Jesus, commenced his work. The Bible “All Scripture is inspired of God.”-2 Timothy 3:16 Luke wrote: “In the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod was district ruler of Galilee, Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was district ruler of Abilene, in the days of chief priest Annas and of Caiaphas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness.” This detailed, precise list enables us to establish that “God’s declaration came to John” in the year 29 C.E. The seven public figures Luke names are well-known to historians. That said, for a time certain critics did question the existence of Pontius Pilate and Lysanias. But the critics spoke too soon. Ancient inscriptions bearing the names of those two officials have been discovered, confirming Luke’s accuracy. * WHY DOES IT MATTER? The earth Jesus taught people about the Kingdom of God, a world government The question of Jesus’ existence matters because his teachings matter. For example, Jesus taught people how to live happy, fulfilling lives. * He also promised a time when mankind will live in true peace and security, united under a single world government called “the Kingdom of God.”-Luke 4:43. The designation “the Kingdom of God” is appropriate because this world government will express God’s sovereignty over the earth. (Revelation 11:15) Jesus made that fact clear when he said in his model prayer: “Our Father in the heavens, . . . let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place . . . on earth.” (Matthew 6:9, 10) What will Kingdom rule mean for mankind? Consider the following: Warfare and civil strife will cease.-Psalm 46:8-11. Wickedness, including greed and corruption, will be gone forever, along with ungodly people.-Psalm 37:10, 11. The Kingdom’s subjects will enjoy meaningful, productive work.-Isaiah 65:21, 22. The earth will fully recover from its present sick state and produce bountiful crops.-Psalm 72:16; Isaiah 11:9. Some people may consider those promises wishful thinking. But is it not wishful thinking to trust in human efforts? Consider: Even in spite of spectacular advances in education, science, and technology, millions today feel deeply insecure and uncertain about tomorrow. And daily we see evidence of economic, political, and religious oppression, as well as greed and corruption. Yes, the reality is that human rule is a failure!-Ecclesiastes 8:9. At the very least, the question of Jesus’ existence merits our consideration. * As 2 Corinthians 1:19, 20 states: “No matter how many the promises of God are, they have become ‘yes’ by means of [Christ].”

[@YoungVeteran2023]

If you don't believe, you condemn yourself. A false follower of THE WAY. If you say Yahweh does not exist, you don't know love. Don't you know we live in a fallen world? Have you not heard of Adam and Eve? How can you lead a "church", followers of THE WAY if you are an enemy of God? This is an abomination. If you don't believe, why do you call out to God when you have no other way? What is good, Plato and Socrates don't have the answer for what good is. Good is what Jesus is, only HE is good. Your impact is not legitimate, if the soul is lost what have you gained? You should not play with God, step down.

[@catherinemartina6469]

Amazing insight. You are exceptionally in-tuned with what the world needs...Honesty. Not stories and fantasies. We can have love, understanding, kindness, world peace all of these wonderful things. We must have depth and communication, openness and love. GOD if you need to use that word...can be Good Orderly Direction.

[@betchan8937]

A truly daring soul.

[@dougroberts8723]

A beautiful soul, who here shares her testimony of how she found herself revealing her honesty. Spirituality is first and foremost about honesty...and that starts with oneself. Religion is in the business of self-delusion. As soon as that first act of lying to oneself is committed, the rest follows. Morality, spirituality, honesty, empathy...all is lost when one embraces the illogical and wicked lies of theism. The comments from theits above prove this beyond any doubt.

[@Metatron141]

I disagree. Nothing beautiful about being a false preacher in a so called church. The only way for the United Church is a downward spiral of ignominity. I hate to be this woman when she goes before God once she dies. This is her Heaven now, cancerous cysts and all. Scripture reminds us that those who turn away from God He shall turn away from them, as they have their own free will. There is no Heaven in the afterlife for this heretic.

[@anrose8335]

@@dougroberts8723 I said above that the comments seemed all of the theistic type. You and Bet Chan are the refreshing exceptions.

[@phyllislowe3942]

A truly daring lost soul.

[@AGodForTheAtheist]

Faith without God is like the faith of the pharaohs magicians and gives you power to enslave and harm others. Faith in the teachings of Jesus to Love truth and right and express it by loving your neighbour is the faith of the God I believe in. There IS A God. And if you do not obey Truth and Right then you will indeed suffer the punishment that comes with consequences of thought and actions. Run from the Truth and you will become neurotic.

[@dougroberts8723]

Revealed religion is the enslavement of the mind. First act: deny your own God-given reason. Once you have submitted your mind to the shackles of dogmatic lies invented by evil men, your spirit can no longer advance, and will forever remain trapped in the dusty pages of a book of hate. There is but one means of escape: to read the book....but you will never do that.

[@9avedon]

@@dougroberts8723 "book of Hate" WTF ! Shove off , your sick and unfaithful ideology has no place in the House of god.

[@dougroberts8723]

@@9avedon I see you're a good Christian, you certainly appear to have all the hatred in your heart that the men who invented it hoped to instil. One day, when you finally read the Bible, you might realise why there are so many people like myself, who diligently and patiently explain and reveal the truth about theism.

[@jkimmerly7373]

She said one thing that I agree with - she should have left the Sunday she confessed her non belief in God.

[@janmgauss]

I disagree. I think she can offer a ministry that isn't very common at that moment. There are lots of people who do not believe in a supernatural god, but still want to be in a church community; and need the nurture that her ministry can provide. She has the talents and education, and - due to not quitting at that time - is gaining the experience, to provide that ministry. I believe the United Church is a good denomination through which to do it.

[@dougroberts8723]

Gretta is actually offering a real spiritual path to people. The Abrahamic religions were all invented by a bunch of sexually-obsessed misogynists. It's impossible to read the Bible, Qur'an or Torah and take it seriously unless you're unhinged.

[@dougroberts8723]

@ It does, of course. But that's because Christianity is designed to shackle the mind, to prevent spiritual awareness, and to be persuaded by immoral tales.

[@kirkjohnson2924]

@@dougroberts8723 I think you do not understand the Bible. But to be fair most Christians dont either.

[@dougroberts8723]

@@kirkjohnson2924 I understand it very well. I've been reading and studying it, along with the history of Christianity and other faiths for nearly 50 years.

[@josejrababat6427]

Her followers will chew her when Jesus comes back and they are left behind.

[@cheriyanalexander3867]

Blame Jesus. If he had come SOON as he said he would - and soon meaning soon as the dictionary defines it, soon on a human, everyday scale - he should have kept his word and come long, long ago. Now the fact that he hasn't showed up two thousand years after he said 'soon', empties the word of all meaning and tells me I am looking at the biggest con in history

[@kim09031957]

Time is irrelevant to God. Soon is in Gods timing. He made a promise and it is going to happen. So I would suggest to read the bible because your life depends on it.

[@torothebeast1112]

Youse your head brother question stydy research from all point of views you will find only 1 way is true thats Jesus

[@Ranger4402]

I am totally with you. I am a very live and let live level headed adult. The preacher woman and his followers are committing the worst heresy I have ever seen. They know they are doing the wrong thing and they keep doing it.

[@heads_together_crypto2422]

Would make a good Ted-talk.

[@kim09031957]

Her problem is that she has never been born again of Gods Spirit. When you repent, believe that Jesus died for your sins. That you are sinner, who is greatly loved because of what Jesus has done for you. This has never happened to her and this is why she is where she is now.

[@rebbeshort]

Jesus died for his own sins.

[@kim09031957]

@@rebbeshort Im sorry thats rubbish

[@rebbeshort]

@@kim09031957 I'm sorry, it's not. The only part of it that is rubbish is that there is no actual evidence of Jesus having existed, and therefore he most likely didn't live or die. If we're just talking belief systems here, I believe that if you are promulgating this dangerous myth ("Our God says, there is no other. Our God says kill your brother" - FZ) you are committing a serious sin. Please, beware of the man with one book, Kim.

[@kim09031957]

@@rebbeshort First of all you mock by saying Jesus died for his own sins then you say there is no proof of Jesus even existing. There is heaps of evidence, carried down through the centuries however this is another subject. I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to ("Our God says, there is no other. Our God says kill your brother" - FZ). There is nothing dangerous about me proclaiming the God I know, he is a God of righteousness, love, forgiveness, justice. I show love to everyone I meet. So tell me what is dangerous about that

[@teelee7048]

4:20 "I was telling people what I knew"..... too funny!.....a better choice of words would have been "I was telling people what I thought" ....and that's just the beginning!...smh

[@catherinemartina6469]

I like her no bs...style...

[@Metatron141]

She is full of bs...she's a false teacher. Read 2Peter she's the one Peter was warning the church about. The kingdom of God isn't Mr. Roger's neighbourhood. You'll see for yourself when you go before God to give an account for the life you've live. I pray you get your theology in order.

[@anrose8335]

@@Metatron141 o god please let her get her theology in order so you don't throw her in the hell you made especially for unbelievers to be continually burned up forever and I will be granted the right to laugh at her screaming in terror and watch the skin peeling off her body only to be reinstated again and again forever and ever. I will not cry in heaven just laugh along with you, god, amen. Nice prayer, Christian! Talk about bs!!

[@Metatron141]

@@anrose8335 why does vosper want to be a pastor? She's an atheist. Think about it. If heaven is a Christian construct then she would have to possess a belief in and relationship with God in order to be compatible with Heaven's operating system. If a person doesn't believe in God then they naturally aren't compatible with Heaven at a very basic level. It's like saying, "I don't believe in gasoline but I believe in water so I'm going put it in my gas tank." Incompatible belief creates compatible rebuke and consequence. Plus, you should never laugh at the thought of any soul burning in hell. I pray that this woman find the Lord in truth and spirit before her time is up.

[@thehonesttruth415]

@@Metatron141 shes just there to confuse people more and lead more people into atheism. imagine a church willingly allow a satanist to be a leader, regardless of whatever the person teach they would add stuffs that is geared to convincing the people to leave christianity. this is a wolf not in sheep clothing but an open wolf, being given the authority to lead sheeps.

[@Brother_Nazarite]

She's all bs

[@DIEFISIS]

Interesante experiencia, falta de Fe y Nietzsche, Unas lindas palabras claro, pero no es la primera que dice algo así, deposita demasiada fe en la humanidad y esa será la frustración. Quita el mito de Dios y propone el mito de Comunidad, ahora la comunidad vendría a ser Dios, o simplemente supo comprender a Paul Tillich lo cual en el fondo la convierte en una líder religiosa como todos los demás que lleva una agenda espiritual vacía.

[@juless3568]

Delighted to listen to a minister of religion who chose atheism. I feel enlightened by her choices.

[@ernestopineda1431]

Too rational that has become irrational: pure absence of FAITH. “The Lord is especially hard on people who disobey him and don't think of anything except their own filthy desires. They are reckless and proud and are not afraid of cursing the glorious beings in heaven. Although angels are more powerful than these evil beings, even the angels don't dare to accuse them to the Lord. These people are no better than senseless animals that live by their feelings and are born to be caught and killed. They speak evil of things they don't know anything about. But their own corrupt deeds will destroy them.” ‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭CEV‬‬ There can’t be more evil than deny the existence of YAHWEH

[@Ranger4402]

Wow. Does she administer the Sacraments of her church? How can she when she does not believe? Sounds to me like she is being a nice person (not a difficult task by any means) and collecting a paycheck. I don't get paid to be a nice person. But she does.

[@lexx.wangmusic]

Simple. The sacraments are human constructs. Doesn't mean anything other than a metaphor. I personally am agnostic ex-evangelical so she confused me, but I kinda see where she is coming from. Church fundementally is a community that gathers and spends time with one in other in love

[@middlemarie7033]

Nothing she is saying is new. Yawn.

[@dougroberts8723]

Really? It's new to me, and I've been studying this stuff for 50 years. Please, can you point me to some earlier exponents of Gretta's philosophy? I genuinely would like to know, because this philosophy is a game-changer for theism. I honestly thought there was no future for the Abrahamic religions but ridicule.

[@billygundum]

To everyone: All you "know" about & of god is man made... One way or another. Only god directly can controvert that.

[@sarmientosarmiento8132]

Que loca mujer ya de dara cuenta cuando este ante el trono blanco y no tendra mucho que decir

[@victorceciliano2082]

Si no se arrepiente desearía no haber nacido.

[@ceciliavaldevenito3933]

Una apostata de la fe.. Estamos en tiempos finales... Jamás conoció a Dios... Solo misericordia.. Y nosotros seguir adelante amando al Dios del Cielo con todo nuestro corazón...

[@teelee7048]

sad you think 3 FAILED marriages is funny. smh…………and now, we are supposed to listen to your advice, on how to be good and nice to others! that’s rich!

[@captainbligh3013]

Sounds like you should listen. Now fuck off

[@JohnGreenEyez]

SO AN ATHEIST BECAME THE HEAD OF......The United Church of Canada, mainline Protestant denomination that is the largest Protestant Christian denomination in CANADA!!!!! SMH

[@julianmeek2156]

She is asking questions that need to be asked and making explorations that need to be made. One of the biggest gaps in faith is that between theology and the basically fundamentalist approach many clergy take in the pulpit for a quiet life. To perpetuate such a gap is dishonest.

[@anrose8335]

Where in the general comments below is there a humanist or atheist or even agnostic? Why do you guys need to take pot shots at this speaker? I'll tell you why. Because she is a woman and you are simply jealous of her talent. :)

[@thehonesttruth415]

whats her talent?

[@carlosc.templar3788]

This woman should listen to John Lennox and William Laje Craig. She was never a true Christian

[@felixjuarez5118]

"My people are lost because of lack of knowledge.." Hope this person doesnt receive donation from people believing she is a lady of God..

[@Eliusalmo1]

Atheism in church, is a derision to the Christ work in the cross..

[@Mr05241948]

At Last a person who brings sanity to the pulpit. No SKY GODS for me either.

[@kim09031957]

You cannot have Christianity and church buildings and pulpits without God. The real God. So she is deceiving people.

[@Rolando_Cueva]

​@@kim09031957 welcome to the 21th century, your religion is in decline.

[@nappyscribe1987]

She IsThe BOMB!!!!!

[@elizabetllanes7370]

No hay por q preocuparse...ya se va a encontar con Dios y se le Va a trminar el ATEISMO.

[@compilationchannel1772]

How sad that this woman allowed satan to corrupt her mind and loose her faith. And how tremendously sad will be when the rapture takes place and she as well as her church be left behind for rejecting the only and true son of God. Our Lord Jesus Christ

[@maurituomisto8007]

Great speech! 👍

[@ferrosjewellers4558]

What was so great about this false teaching?

[@maurituomisto8007]

@@ferrosjewellers4558 Lack of belief in fairy tales.

[@felixjuarez5118]

Repent my friend.. here is the perfect example of great apostasy.. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul makes it clear that the day of the Lord, a time of worldwide judgment (Isaiah 13:6; Obadiah 1:15), will not transpire until two things happen. First, the falling away, or great apostasy, must occur.

[@maurituomisto8007]

@@felixjuarez5118 You should repent your stupidity my friend.

[@felixjuarez5118]

@@maurituomisto8007 is this lady your moma?

[@teelee7048]

she does not see God rightly, so everything after that is just words. so sad.

[@dougroberts8723]

Who are you to claim that "she does not see God rightly"?

[@kim09031957]

No she doesnt. I dont thing she ever has. I would say she has had some form of doctrine teaching and it in her head however the truth never moved to her heart. Otherwise she would not be doing what she is doing now.

[@dougroberts8723]

@@kim09031957 Those of us that have diligently studied the Bible and the history of Christianity know that it is all an invention of ancient, misogynistic men with political motives. The only people that can claim any kind of reasoned God-belief are Deists. Being "moved to your heart" does not in any way validate ancient fairy tales.

[@kim09031957]

Those of us? You can only speak on your own behalf and it is your opinion. It doesnt make any sense what you say. Deism believes in a God however that he doesnt interfere with his creation? Is that right? Well the God I know is a loving God, good and holy and is personable. No one on this earth, family friends can love me the way he does. I have hope, a future and loved more than I know. Do you have this?

[@kim09031957]

Doug you say it is fairy tales to what end then? What have these people have to gain by spreading fairy tales? Jesus Christ did live on this earth. The modern calendar is based around him for starters. If I wanted to believe a fairy tale?, how long would I be able to keep up the facade? I wouldnt be able to because it would be a weak fairy tale. God is real, Jesus is real, the bible is his word and it has changed me from the inside out. You can have doctrine in your head however its just doctrine, when your eyes are opened by the truth which God reveals to you, it moves to your heart and changes you forever.

[@JohnGreenEyez]

bill gates has the same vision

[@yek636]

I wish humans were strong enough to embrace good teachings without the need of a fear of a non-existing god. But no, we need to be so important that an almighty-eternal-holy being cares for us. And for the most part *he* must be a male. Good morning people, the real sun shines in your own hearts, your - our - salvation or damnation is at our hands - not in the god's or one of his creation's. Amen.

[@backtoheave]

Lo increoble es que haya gente que le interese escuchar sus predicas,,,,, un ciego conduciendo a muchos ciegos.......

[@guynica4791]

Heresy.

[@freddygutierrez3057]

she is lost

[@kalimanbuda6501]

Una mujer sensata..( an intelligent woman )

[@cristianclaudiaguerrero3022]

Kind of sad for you, I hope that you repent. God is the God of second chances.