IEMs are getting... strange

[@dhruvmeena96]

As someone who makes iem for some brands, that is bone conductor playing in mids

[@TheHEADPHONEShow]

That's indeed what I suspected.

[@Shyvorix]

Oh nice! Is it possible to say who you work/worked for or projects you were in? Was always curious as to how IEMs are made. I even considered custom making my own shell with a resin 3D printer I intended to buy in the future for arts and crafts projects and transplanting from a pair I currently have.

[@JuanAuribus]

Real

[@theodorezurla496]

What Andrew, is complaining about with the mids some might prefer. That bone conductor could give a cool effect surrounding vocals and mids I remember it going on a little bit with the Mest/mentor

[@hengli7372]

@@theodorezurla496 The UM's bone conductors are different from these. UM used the piezoelectric multi-layer bone conductor, that is their patented driver. EE uses coil bone conductors, which are the same drivers that most manufacturers (EE, Kinera, Noble...) are using.

[@minhquannguyenthe7258]

petition to make more mugs that have not-so-genuine-smile from Resolve :>

[@michaelp.3485]

I am SO glad I disregarded this review and bought the Ravens. As somebody who owns a U12t, and even an Annihilator 2023 as part of my collection, I can say the Raven is truly above both and is the best I have heard to date. It is truly an unforgettable experience. Edit: The more I listen to the Raven, the more I really don't understand what the hell Andrew is complaining about here. This is a truly terrible review.

[@ezrabrownstein3237]

That midrange weirdness looks like something to do with the crossover network implementation for the drivers. I'd imagine there is a massive phase shift right at that point. Iirc there was a small artifact in around the same place with the Legend Evo so it's probably the interaction between the BC driver and the DDs/lower BAs causing it.

[@TheStarfreak911]

Bone Conduction@@TheWorldTeacher

[@JLa748]

Loved the pic of the video, it makes more sense to call that one the Raven.

[@Mr1stcat]

What happened to Precog isn't he the iem expert

[@ROCKSTAR3291]

hes on vacation

[@AverieS820]

Heard it briefly at Canjam SG and I really like it actually! Probably my 3rd or 4th fav. set of the show. But I can see how it could be too much for extended listening. I love the sense of body it brings to music, very lush sounding. Not something I'd ever buy though because it's simply too expensive (although, I am saving up for an Elysian Annihaliator, which is equally as overpriced), but it's probably something I would like to listen to again when I get the chance.

[@alinpricop8439]

Sounds really good on my measured Fh3 with AutoEQ applied and some smoothning in the upper treble.

[@GadZookz]

Thanks Resolve! Sounds like it is a bit Tri-polar in nature. Think I’ll just stick to the Odin and the U12T for now.

[@mintgaming9198]

Gotta love seeing a genuine and honest review. I found a similar effect with the Odyssey. The bass doesn't sound bloated but it does definitely dominate the sound profile. ..However the more I listened to them, the more that resonance and deep, deep constant bass actually started fading into the backdrop of everything I listen to. Sometimes I can still remark on the bass on certain tracks, like "I Remember" by deadmau5, i still feels a bit in your face. But I'm so used to it that in most music I listen to I can appreciate it and still hear what the rest of it is trying to do with the mids and treble ranges as well. They're Definitely not for everyone but it's be a basshead's dream.

[@H0NSE]

So Empire made an reverse Etymotic? An expensive iem which expects a shallow fit.

[@777zekepitargue3]

I don't understand what Andrew is complaining about here, It is the best IEM for Rock/Heavy Metal and Pop. It is better than the both the original Annihilator and 2023 models. My only issue with this IEM is the Price. I agree that the price to sound ratio is not good. It has high diminishing returns. It is just at best, 10% to 15% better than the Thieaudio Mk3, MK2 or my favorite IEM UM Mest MKII.

[@strangelyrepulsive77]

significant deal breakers as opposed to minor deal breakers?

[@strangelyrepulsive77]

@@fisherman9435how can it be a deal breaker if it's minor?

[@strangelyrepulsive77]

@@fisherman9435but to those to which it is minor it's not a deal breaker

[@NamsStreams]

"I agree, nothing over a $1000 is worth it" as I listen to this on my Elysian Gaea.

[@kalonzo8042]

Well even though you bought it, is it worth 1000$

[@vavent_]

Haven't you found treble on Gaea too spicy? What eartips you are using with them, because to my ears, using W1 SpinFit eartips or Audiosense S400 don't save my ears from some sort of harshness in the sound from Gaea

[@townofdudleysixth]

@@vavent_ I don't know why people find the Gaea treble spicy - I found it quite less sparkly than the UE11 which I upgraded from. Then again I'm a treble head 😆.

[@vavent_]

@@townofdudleysixth undertandable😃 I believe i'm complete opposite and I'm more of a treble-phobic type of person, I also remember finding Timeless original also too bright and harsh. On the other hand treble levels of Variations is perfect for me, smooth, soft, never offensive, I had a big hopes for Gaea, very beautiful, but my ear canals and treble sensitivity can't stand them on most of the songs Enjoy your Gaea, Elysian guy do some great stuff, I hope one day will hear Diva and Annihilator

[@NamsStreams]

@@vavent_ Since most people who know what Gaea is have tried an S12, I'll use it as a point of comparison, although the graph shows that it's bright, to my ears, it's no where near as sharp sounding as the S12 at same gain level, now everyone's ears are built different, but imagine like the treble being loud without sounding sharp or annoying, it's extremely trippy, string instruments are a joy!

[@juanblanco7898]

You did your best to tiptoe around your ultimately unfavorable verdict for sure. It srems to have a little bit too much "special flavour" for a product at price point to me as well. What's your opinion on the Crinacle's new reference IEM target for B&K 5128/4620 (Tilted DF with a 10 dB bass shelf)? Maybe you've already spoken on this matter somewhere but I've missed that?

[@TheHEADPHONEShow]

Tilted DF was a concept we proposed last year when reviewers moved to the 5128. We've got a number of videos on it, including a live stream with Crin, but essentially we both use the same concept.

[@ucsdgemini]

I preordered these without listening. I hope I like them. I already have Odyssey and Evo as well.

[@resottolamontagna904]

What a genius, lol.

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

@@resottolamontagna904 What a useless comment, lol.

[@rafael6693]

how do you like them? is the bass / subwoofer any good?

[@yogiwp_]

Out-of-phase BC driver? The fact that it's gone on shallow insert means the BC was not in effect at that point.

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

I find myself disagreeing with you on nearly every review you do of IEMs that I have either owned or auditioned. I think the only IEM we seem to agree on is the 64 Audio u12t. So the chances are very good that if you have bad things to say about an IEM that I will probably like it...a lot. Lol. It is the only reason I even bother watching your reviews. I don't own the Raven and haven't heard it, but you crapping on them makes me want to hear these IEMs now more than ever.

[@jordanbruce]

Just the most passive/aggressive comment on all of KZbin. 😂

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

@@jordanbruce Get over it. BTW, I did end up buying the Ravens after I auditioned them.

[@Stoyakoff2024]

@@CrazyAboutVinylRecords И как оно?

[@iKaGe01]

This interests me but DAMN. I know it isn't a direct comparison but how would a set from EE compare to say the Monarch mkii/iii in terms of quality in sound/technicalities given the price difference?

[@jasonblaise6786]

Except for the bone conduction. I don’t really see anything special here besides the soundstage but that comes at the cost of upper mids most likely. Honestly if you EQ the MK3 you can get to 3k+ IEM levels of sound. It’s a very capable IEM

[@The_Geek_World]

​@jasonblaise6786 even with the Thieaudio Hype 4 if I EQ the treble for more air I can get to Monarch Mk3 level of extra air the Hype 4 itself beats or match my older TOTL IEMs UM MEST MK2 Sony IER Z1R in tonality and the imaging is on the same level which shows how IEMs keep getting better and better like they distribute drivers meant for TOTL IEMs to midrange now only difference is the TOTL IEMs have est and bc 😂

[@HobbyTalk]

Welcome to the bone zone! Got dat bone conduction magic!

[@Abhi-wn7sw]

U12t still the boss! You are the only reviewer I trust on this.

[@aceryn2341]

Nah the Odins destroy the U12T if you like bass. I had both and the U12T bass is weak. EQ the Odins and you have unlimited bass, way better details and technicalities.

[@benstain2674]

​@@aceryn2341listen to a anole VX, lcdi4, KSE 1500, etc and you will understand the odin is still noticeably not at the top of the technicalities ladder.

[@ChaseHub]

@@aceryn2341 I liked the Odin's but I like my Susvara's more so moved back to full sizes. Odin's were really affected by tips too. Definitely tip roll them to find a favorite.

[@Abhi-wn7sw]

@@aceryn2341you say bass weak, I say accurate ;) Also, EQ? GTFO! :D

[@CookieCurls]

If you think the u12t has weak bass, then maybe IEM users are getting a distorted perspective on what balanced audio sounds like because so many IEMs have insane levels of bass boosting. Also, you can literally control the amount of bass with the modules so just use a different module.

[@Hijynx87]

My um mext also has a tight 2 pin. Tighttighttiiiight!

[@coardtech]

should put a text on the box that says "NO RAGRETS."

[@hengli7372]

I happened to measure Kinera Loki, it has a similar weird lower curve, just like the raven. I can hear the weirdness from Loki, but Raven is not that significant (I guess the subbass and upper-mid got more of my attention). I am pretty sure it is the coil bone conductor. The UM ones and Canpur's are fine.

[@MrJabinho]

Yes I agree something like Hifiman HE6 og is not good value for the price these days.

[@taidee]

Well thanks Resolve for that brief take on this product. The truth is that I'm not even the potential customer at this price level, I watch just to know how the Joneses live life on the other side of the fence

[@crisrodcavill]

They’re great. But he never likes anything, that’s why he always uses EQ.

[@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrr]

If you think this is weird, wait for when the Eight Legged Horse comes out

[@paulstella8443]

Underrated comment

[@The_Geek_World]

I'm having trouble choosing between Raven and Volur

[@TW-SPSBIPZX]

Overkilled and not justified nowadays during the “golden age” where IEMs costing lesss than USD$50 will do for everyday hifi listening

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

So will a Honda civic, but put that on a race track looking to set fastest lap. "But I dont want do to that". Yes, you dont.

[@ResolveReviews]

@@En_Joshi-Godrez Agreed, but the vast majority of people aren't out there on the race track. And I do agree that this is more like a race car than a honda civic. But that's why it's just so conflicted for me. It's like one of those cars that's only amazing at on-track performance but totally undrivable the majority of the time someone is behind the wheel. I'd much rather a Civic Type R or GR Corolla, where you can both have fun on track and use it as a daily driver.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

​@@ResolveReviewsof course. We just talked about this. But overkill means different things to different people.

[@theodorezurla496]

@@ResolveReviews this is a great analogy, but iems are not cars they are tiny not nearly as expensive and you can fit them in your pocket, so why not have a few that will blow your mind, and then a few that can be more daily drivable that’s cool about this hobby we can fit that Ferrari in our pocket :) of course stick to your budget but I suggest working hard saving some money and sticking that Ferrari in your pocket you deserve it 😉

[@ROCKSTAR3291]

I mean it's audio, it's hard to quantify. People buy these expensive products looking for an unique experience, whether it's worth the money or not is for them to decide.

[@goldenwing8184]

Idk why they install speedbump at 400-500 hz but hey guess they have their own taste. A wild guess that this one may work well with the Pentaconn Coreir as it extent the distant but then again this one already a big shell iem so idk if it actually work. Also I don't have the intention to spend 3600$ to buy a math problem then solve it myself so I guess I will stick with my Z1R XD

[@juanblanco7898]

That bump most likely is a BCD resonance. Pentacon Coreir are surely intriguing, I'd like to get more reviews on those.

[@dbean5174]

@@juanblanco7898they recess the lower vocal spectrum while boosting the mid bass and s and t ranges of the voice. It makes it sound like voices are far and in the distance while the mid bass gives a sort of surrounding bass feel. It’s definitely a unique sound which is a hit or miss for me for some tracks. The actual connection to the IEM is very short so it falls off almost every time I take out the iem from my ear since the tips are sticky like the xelastic though not nearly as much.

[@juanblanco7898]

@@dbean5174 Interesting, thank you! Sounds like they won't work for me most likely.

[@dbean5174]

@@juanblanco7898 yeah I think if you have a very thin mid bass region with an excessive treble region, these aren’t it especially for the price. On my Mest mk2, the mid bass is just a bit overwhelming and the vocal region can sound great in some songs but pretty wonky in others with a recessed sound and sharp s sounds

[@juanblanco7898]

@@dbean5174 What tips do you prefer with Mest MK2? I think Final E tips might do well with it to bring out some upper midrange/lower treble and tame the mid treble somewhat.

[@maegnificant]

Btw, these two pin stiffment issues are all over the place, no IEM from the same production run is the same. And no musician would ever use an IEM like this.

[@kawaiikoto8800]

Blackpink and flo rida literally use them

[@maegnificant]

@@kawaiikoto8800 the raven? :D

[@garygriffiths7353]

I’m a u12t user too. I don’t like the look of the raven tuning from the graph you’ve shown

[@kvn_la]

I have never really enjoyed any of the Empire Ears sets I've tried. Spicy take: they seem like a higher end Campfire. Weird expensive niche tuning that's very not for me.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

The odin is well tuned. But is basically alone in their lineup.

[@dbean5174]

@@En_Joshi-Godrezagreed. They seem to definitely still have that niche quality to them despite their insane resolution

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Kinda disgree with the notion that there is no sense whatsoever in something past a certain cost. Headphones are a performance based device, so long as that Headphone offers something that you can pay *no less* to achieve, then there will always be some level of sense in it if you can comfortably buy it. If its just a different tuning, then you could argue that it is attainable by something cheaper via EQ, but if its basically anything else, then no, you cant make a cheaper product do what that does no matter what. Its binary.

[@ResolveReviews]

That's NOT what I'm saying though. Rather, the question about 'value for money' is irrelevant with products like these. This is about the endgame. Stuff like this is for people who are so particular about the sound they want they're willing to spend absurd amounts of money to get it. General goodness of sound quality is achieved WAY farther down the price ladder already. I think its important for folks to recognize that.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

​​​@@ResolveReviewsthat depends on your experience level. If you're a musician, then you understand the 100's of factors that result in the composition of a song. The more experience you are, the more aware you are of the nuances. If its the case that your threshold for when reproduction is considered as "realism" because of those replicated nuances, is also your threshold of enjoyment, then it would be a waste to pay less for a headphone *that doesn't reach that threshold* . In that example, the cheaper headphones is *infinity* worse than the more expensive one, because it doesn't reach the threshold of enjoyment. Yes, no headphone or speaker can ever correctly replicate the actual recording, but thats irrelevant to my argument.

[@guybuddy1]

Nice avatar dude! Swans ftw

[@ResolveReviews]

@@En_Joshi-Godrez This is only true if in fact the cheaper one is actually worse. In some cases it is, but in MANY instances it's not necessarily going to be. High price tags in audio past a certain point are the function of two factors, 1) where the manufacturer thinks a product is able to fit within the market, and B) the ability and willingness of the market to pay for it. And this is why I say it's not a question of value for money. Sure, it might be the perfect thing for someone, and in THAT instance it's going to be a good buy for them - they get that unique sense of joy they wouldn't otherwise be able to experience. But diminishing returns kicks in extremely hard at far lower price tags, and beyond that we're not talking so much about whether something is 'better', rather, that its just different.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

​​​@@ResolveReviewsthats subjective. Again, if you are experienced with the nuances and characteristics of a recording, then the differences could be much larger than what you, resolve, believe subjectively. Your experience in hearing the harmonic overtones and envelope can never be replicated flawlessly a driver, so it is "objectively subjective" how close that driver comes to making it sound real to you. If you need to pay x amount, because that particular headphone has a driver capable of that preproduction quality, and you can pay no less to get it, then your argument is mute, and it already is because of the subjectivity of experience. For me, a Susvara, LCD 5, LCDi4, KSE1200, etc, are the only drivers I've heard in a headphone that are audibly transparent to me, as in, once eq'd to my preference, I can no longer perceive the driver. No headphone below those price ranges has been able to do that, and I've tried most of them. In my example, its completely binary, meaning diminishing returns never existed.

[@rebeccafriedrich8035]

So . . . nevermore?

[@sephondranzer]

How does this not have all the likes? 😂

[@rebeccafriedrich8035]

@@sephondranzer Not a lot of Poe fans in this crowd, I guess?

[@Elazarko]

Please make "best IEMs under $100" kind of videos

[@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah]

Interesting but no thank you. My IER-M9 is perfect

[@sjqideez6626]

The Storm is king, the Susvara of the IEM world.

[@Florianski]

Imagine spending 3500$ on an iem that has worse tuning than the 20$ salnotes zero

[@theodorezurla496]

Comments like these are just…. 😮‍💨 I need to get off the Internet

[@Florianski]

@@theodorezurla496 look at the graphs my friend and tell me that i'm wrong.

[@theodorezurla496]

@@Florianski just please stop

[@Florianski]

@@theodorezurla496 my guy, i have had many kilobuck iems in my audio journey and none of them were worth it. I've sold them all and now I just use the zero. Dont try to belittle me just because i can enjoy iems that dont cost a fortune. Over-ear headphones are a different story though. So far no headphone under 2k came even close to my current favourite pair which is the he-1000se.

[@jefryions5657]

​​@@theodorezurla496you deleted your post after you were called out for lying about the annihilator and xe6 for having simular bass response. You are deeply shameful for telling others what to think.

[@benedu3450]

bose qc45 and sony wh1000xm5 are "premium noise cancelling headphones" , I have to remind myself a lot to not forget that

[@anonymoususerinterface]

awinmoweh

[@guybuddy1]

There's so many awesome hi end headphones you could get for 3500 bucks... just sayin

[@hy7968]

You could get a room sound treated and get a decent pair of speakers and woofers for that price 💀

[@kajetan9550]

@@hy7968with much worse effect;) Speaker systems unfortunately are insanely expensive to get to the same high level

[@joebest6582]

​@@hy7968different use case. The person purchasing this will also have a $20000+ hifi room.

[@guybuddy1]

@@hy7968 Yes, but you can't bring your room with you.

[@hy7968]

@@guybuddy1 who would use open backs in public anyway

[@loonation2185]

i mean with that price range, better get speakers if solely for audio Also that FR is dogsh't ngl, for that money? we should expect true high fidelity production. Thank god i got out of this iem rabbit hole.

[@chad6]

WTF is that GRAPH

[@Hijynx87]

You don’t like potholes in your mids?

[@townofdudleysixth]

@@Hijynx87 Absolutely golden. 🤣

[@alexbramm8526]

TOTL‘s are always an L because the tech derives in newer models for peanuts

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Not always. Look at the KSE. You ultimately have no idea if a newer iem has the same driver technology, and don't pretend to try.

[@MidnightWhiteKnight]

3500$ 😂

[@operamatthew]

i’ll stick with my odins

[@andrewronnberg5725]

Empire ears is not balanced sound,dude company

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Dude company

[@Manupassero]

3600 USD.... no way, I won't even watch the video sorry

[@ancientalien815]

$3600 piece of shit.....awesome.

[@michaelp.3485]

As somone who own a U12t and Annihilator 2023, this blows both out of the water. After getting my Raven, I may need to sell my other two iems.

[@herrythecotc4913]

This is an IEM for show, no real usage. Hard to drive so not portable, huge body etc..