If Taekwon-Do Is Known for Kicking, Then Why The Patterns Have So Many Hand Techniques | TW Podcast

[@iROChakri]

These hand techniques are later adopted from other martial arts. Most stand up styles today are more Muay thai than their traditional old footage.

[@kerrytee4174]

Thank you Gentlemen, another excellent topic. To me the ITF curriculum including the Tul were made by General Choi to have many elements. For example: Straight forward instruction such as understanding left and right movements and turning to the open side in the Saju Jirigi exercise. Joong Gun introduces stance changes by moving the front foot. Juche and its athleticism. Moon Moo’s beauty. So San’s intricacy. Plus power, balance, breath control, rhythm etc., etc.! Truly an incredible legacy.

[@paulz4667]

@@kerrytee4174 that's spot on although it's important to acknowledge the pioneers as well plus General Choi Hong Hi coined Taekwondo and founded the art. The pioneers are sometimes forgotten about as nearly all of them particularly in North America went independent. Gm Rhee ki ha was only one that didn't do any independent style like Gm jhoon Rhee/Kim suk Jun etc but he left itf Vienna too. Only Gm jc Kim is left who is now under master choi Jung hwa

[@kaliduncanel3356]

My favorite subject on taekwondo

[@Liminal.Sanctuary]

Taekwondo has a background in Northern Chinese Kung Fu. The handwork resembles this to me. Also Tai Chi chuan (Taegeuk) and Bagua (Palgwe) philosophy are old influences. These Chinese influences are more noticeable in the older Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do. The kicking I think is influenced by Taekyyon and Karate, but seems to have taken the forefront in modern Taekwondo. I wonder if the sport rules are also a reason for more kicking? When I look at Taekyyon though, kicks are very prevalent. So it's almost as if Taekwondo is coming full circle from the ancient past, in a way?

[@paulz4667]

Wtf is more influenced by taekkyon and their uniforms. It's crazy how different wt and itf are though. They don't practice application in poomsaes that much although there's lots more kicking

[@Liminal.Sanctuary]

@paulz4667 I think the opposite. WTF keeps more stable and level, like longfist or karate. ITF preserves the bounce and flow of taekyyon.

[@paulz4667]

@@Liminal.Sanctuary that's interesting interpretation both hapkido/tkd kicks are influenced by taekkyon. Although, the formal structure and etiquette is maintained much more in itf as opposed to wtf Taekwondo. General Choi Hong hi introduced the sine wave gradually, as the Chang hon tuls are older than the tagueks. When the general came up with a unified name for tkd, the rest of kwans were practicing their own distinct styles. Now most of kwans arts are no longer practiced only moo duk kwan (tang soo do/subak) and Chung do kwan (but modern wtf Taekwondo is far removed from the Chung do kwan roots. Itf also places a greater emphasis on the first and hand techniques as opposed to wtf Taekwondo, look at breaking, sparring, punching fundamental techniques. Most notably the logo

[@Liminal.Sanctuary]

@paulz4667 Yes, I see those things as well. Each group seems to have preserved more and less of certain aspects.

[@paulz4667]

@@Liminal.Sanctuary it's crazy how the karate styles are connected and overlap, itf and wtf Taekwondo couldn't be more different, they are worlds apart in terms of kicking, look at the extent wtf Taekwondo practitioners practice kicking and certain drills once you take hand techniques out. The application and alot of kicks don't translate well into itf, because in itf you spend time practicing the sinewave, application, hand techniques, kicking technique isn't fine tuned to the same extent. That's why it's very rare you get masters in both styles I've seen one school that did itf/wtf in Seoul but lots of people just focused on their style

[@wtf1231122]

If taekwon do is so effective, why isn't it used in professional fighting?

[@paulz4667]

@@wtf1231122 conor and few people have itf backgrounds too. That's a very good question too, same thing about Japanese jujutsu which was used by samauris

[@wtf1231122]

@paulz4667 Connor does not have a background in tae Kwon do. He might have taken a few classes but he's not a practitioner. The only effective art to get into for striking are: boxing, kick boxing, or muay Thai. The only effective arts for grappling is wrestling and bjj.

[@paulz4667]

@@wtf1231122 kyokushin or muay thai and boxing are great bases for kickboxing

[@paulz4667]

@@wtf1231122 kyokushin karate too , plus in kickboxing the best bases are muay thai or kyokushin cross trained with boxing.

[@paulz4667]

@@wtf1231122 Judo is effective for grappling

[@barrettokarate]

Without watching the video, here’s the gist of it.Taekwondo (1957) comes fromTang Soo Do (1944) which is a Koreanized version of Shotokan karate. The first and second generation (post WWII) Korean karateka coming from that Tang Soo Do/Shotokan background had learned the Japanese/Okinawan kata and that influenced the creation of the early taekwondo forms.If you look at several of the ITF forms many have movements that resemble the Tang Soo Do/Shotokan kata. For example, the first half of your “Chonji” form is the same as the first half of Giecho hyung il bu/Taikyoku shodan. Do San has a movement twice that resembles one found in the Jion form of TSD and Shotokan. The opening two combinations of “Won Hyu” is almost identical to the beginning of Pyong-an Yi Dan/Heian Nidan. And so on and so on.

[@DavidBarnwell876tkdja]

They look similar because they both have a Shotokan foundation. In other words, they both resemble Shotokan.

[@gatocles99]

Taekwondo came from shotokan karate. While the sport rules favor kicking, taekwondo is an all around fighting system.

[@barrettokarate]

Yes and no. Taekwondo (1957) comes from Tang Soo Do (1944) which is basically Koreanized Shotokan. However, after WWII many of those same Koreans who had learned karate in Japan had begun to make slight changes to what they had learned. So technically there was a brief buffer decade where the Koreans began to focus a bit more on kicking. If you look at that vintage Tang Soo Do-Moo Duk Kwan footage from the 1950s you’ll notice that yes, they look very Shotokan in nature, but you also see them sparring with an emphasis on kicking and jump kicks.

[@gatocles99]

@@barrettokarate I guarantee you that the Tiger Brigade that used Tae Kwon Do to stomp Commies, used more than just kicks.