Illegal and Unsafe Wiring in Older Homes

This video shows unsafe wiring at the house at 507 7th Street. All this wiring will be removed and replaced with correct safe wring that conforms to current NEC or better!
Upcoming class on foundations at this house: / 457718117596255

[@Mr2heads]

FYI when knob and tube wiring was first installed there was no grounding or ground reference this was done later to prevent lightning from traveling forever on the utility lines.

[@TechHowden]

Does that mean back then you could’ve touched the hot and not gotten shocked?

[@Mr2heads]

@@TechHowden yes as long as that was the only one you touched

[@TechHowden]

@@Mr2heads thanks, I’ve been wondering about that for like 8 years

[@RayneAngelus]

Started doing reno on an old (1890's original) place in Philly and quickly run into some very not-code fun. Knob & Tube wire, no junction boxes for splices, a ceiling fan installed without a box (no idea when that was done). This is going to hurt...

[@koolhub6137]

great job stir, you are a master electrician, there too many unskilled jack-leg people working with electricity, no professional training, and not know the NEC CODE.

[@hydrolisk1792]

I'm remodeling three houses from 1906 and the worst part I ahve found so far with these houses is tearing out the plaster and Lath. Messy as hell! The old knob and Tube electrical was intact in this place, but there was a fire upstairs, so it was replaced in the 50's. Teh whole house is on one breaker and they didn't use junction boxes for their splices lol. It is a freaking disaster area, so I ,completely rewired the whole house with a 125 AMP service :) Cool vid BTW

[@doninmichigan]

Wood lath and plaster, metal lath and plaster were a bear to work with for sure. Fond memories now in my retirement years, lol.

[@OlegKostoglatov]

When I'm doing a reno job I try to save and reuse the old lumber elsewhere on the job if I can, sometimes it take a bit of nail pulling but anything over two feet long, minus rot, cracks, etc, can be used for blocking. In an old house those pieces can be especially useful since a lot of the framing is full dimensional whereas the modern stuff is nominal and dressed. I do this mostly because I'm cheap and hate to waste material.

[@doninmichigan]

I found it fascinating to work in older homes in Ann Arbor, Mi., and downtown Detroit from the early 1900's. Knob and Tube, and push button wall switches and other devices from the era, and the switchgear in the electrical equipment room of the Leland Hotel in Detroit. As a retired Master, it's all good memories now.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

I'm not able to save everything, but I am able to reclaim quite a bit. I demoed a commercial building a few years back and scored big time: hundreds of 2x6, 2x8, and 2x8 all greater than 14', all modern planed kiln dried lumber too. I paid one of my guys a day's labor to denail it, and still it was a great deal! Thanks again for the Sundial tip!

[@citychick4154]

Knob and tube is antiquated but not unsafe and the neutrals were switched in some instances.

[@Membrane556]

@Livinggreen100 The old knob and tube wire was perfectly safe when it was new but the problem is it's 60+ years old which means it's insulation can often be brittle and cracking.Plus it's usually very undersized for modern demands.

[@robertmattison1282]

Thank you for taking the time to make this video and posting it on KZbin. Excellent video.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@ElitePokerPlayer Thanks. Large portions of the roof decking will be replaced due to rot and incorrect construction from when the house was new. The 5/4" material on the roof with gaps is OK as long as there is suffcient sound decking to nail shingles to. The roof is outside the building envelope so there are no thermal issues. But, it's vitally important, as you wondered, that the decking be sound enough to nail to and each shingle gets 4 nails (overlapping for a total of eight) in this area.

[@cathyvickers9063]

I grew up in a house built prior WWII. I remember once when an outlet suddenly sparked & smudged the faceplate! My folks called a professional electrician, who revealed that we had knob & tube wiring, & it had to be replaced. All those years walking across the basement to & from the garage seeing those white tubes up there, & never giving a thought to it! Now, whenever I see a program (like Holmes on Homes) or a video where contractors expose knob & tube, I remember our basement ceiling.

[@cascholz1]

Nothing really wrong with K&T provided it was installed correctly, not damaged, and not modified incorrectly. In fact, the open wiring cools better than when in conduit or romex.

[@doninmichigan]

@@cascholz1 agreed

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@Membrane556 Yes. Knob and tube was installed with 30 or 60 amp service back in the day, and most people cooked with gas or wood. Microwaves hadn't been invented yet, and people hung their clothes on the lines to dry. Plus, there certainly weren't any heat pumps in 1920 in every home!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

I should add that beside the fact that you're right about the things you mentioned (permits, plates, insurance) we are also talking about lives. As bad as dying in a fire might be, I wonder if living the remainder of your life as a burn victim wouldn't be worse?

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Wow. I'm always amazed at stuff like this. I'm glad the house didn't burn down and I'm glad you all got things straight.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Thanks! It sounded like a disaster area being on just one breaker! It's amazing the stuff you find.

[@zerosparky9510]

Knob and Tube wiring. back in the day the power was ran to the light and they switched the neutral. that is how it was done and was legal at the time.

[@davef3826]

I lived in a house were they had a live wire going behind a shower wall and thank god we remodeled the bathroom and found it and had a professional come in and fix it and talk about scary and the wire wasn't really covered that well with the cap.

[@vamwolf]

Dave f when i tore and help my father renovate my bathroom. Found out that the side of bathroom. Outside wall. Was on fire at one point.

[@rwdplz1]

I lived in a triplex in Houghton, MI years ago, where the electrical outlets were not grounded, and there was live knob and tube in the basement. The house was 100+ years old, and apparently had the original wiring, except there was a breaker box in the basement that looked like it was added in the 80's. I didn't live there long.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Yes! Current NEC (which pretty much most Dillion rule states and/or localites require bonding of plumbing and gas (assuming the plumbing isn't entirely non-conductive). I go so far as to ground duct work also, though it's not required. I also use a minimum of three rods and often more and I go 8 feet apart instead of six to maintain a good distance between the spheres of influence. Good reminder.

[@WAQWBrentwood]

Finding the original iron switch boxes on the K&T tells you that the original work was done by a professional. I can't tell you how many times I removed a switch/outlet/light fixture only to find it screwed directly to the lath with NO boxes at all!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

That is super cool to know. The next demo I will save them all for them. I was able to mulch most of the demo lumber, and I diverted all the plaster from the landfill by recycling it into soil (mixed with sand, mulch, high octane compost, some clay). Of course it was lead tested first, and I'll grow grass on it for three years before veggies. So, I'm always looking for ways to reclaim materials! Thanks for the tip!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

What didn't break I took to the Habitat store, but somewhere on my channel someone posted info on where to buy these online. It might be on this video or one of my electrical videos, but I'm sure I remember someone saying something about it. I'm not doing another full scale demo anytime soon, but I'd be happy to save whatever I come across if you want them.

[@laurareason-gadd8022]

I need to replace the noob and tube through out our home. We purchase a 1910 Victorian one story. ( Beyond fixer upper) We will be working in several (thousand) projects, though the kitchen is the first, starting in March of 2019. Any advice before we start? Since we're going to need a lot of wiring where can I purchase wiring wholesale instead of Lowe's? Unfortunately there is no home Depot in my area.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Thanks! I'm young enough that I should finish it before I die! Barring any unexpected issues! That church job sounds like a lot of work.

[@KLAWNINETY]

Switching the neutral instead of the hot was the way they did it back then. It's obviously very dangerous but until the 30s or 40s the code did not prohibit switching the neutral for lighting.

[@MaxLeeMe]

Its super cool you live in Roanoke too!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

I haven't mapped out anything in detail yet, and I'm spending the better part of the next two years fixing structure, so it's a ways off. I added a link to a class on excavating for footings coming up at my house next in the video description which shows just how big of a project this is!. So, I will be using as little energy as possible, and I'm hoping most lighting will be LED, and HVAC will be two ductless high SEER heat pumps. The envelope is going to be super insulated, to help this.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

The house, my objectives, and the neighborhood zoning are much more complicated than your assessment allows. The core issue in a major renovation like this is to salvage the energy that already been spent in the initial structure and then renovate in such a way to minimize energy usage for the future. Also, the materials and labor used during the renovation should be the most efficient as possible. This type renovation focuses on true cradle to cradle philosophy. It's how I run my business!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

I wish youtube would let us put URL's in the comment boxes, but you will love that wireless AC video on Ted Talks. With changes in distributed energy and lower consumption appliances, I agree that we'll make great strides in lower voltage systems. The bigger draws like motors for fridges, W&D, etc. will be a challenge, but for many fixtures (especially lighting) and some appliances we can def. use lower amp/volts circuits. I'm all for less watts!

[@AtsfMike559]

I would like to know what became of the old knob and tube insulators as I re-use them on Live-Steam scale communication/signal poles. They are almost scale size for these. If you know of a source where I may buy the old salvage, I would be greatly interested. Mike in Fresno, Ca.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

This work was done without permits sometime in the late 90's, probably 98 or 99. It was illegal then, and either homeowners pay to have it done right or risk death or injury in the resulting fire.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Exactly! No more than two circuits will be on each for the criticals, for example, one 20A circuit for appliance #1, one 20A circuit for appliance #2, one 15 A circuit for fridge, one 15A circuit for DW, and 15A one circuit GD, etc. In bath I put one 15A for GFCI, and 1 for light/fan. As for the rest of the house, I group by section and function so those aren't dedicated. I will do bedroom lites for one section, or outlets in a certain section. I generally try to keep the lites and outlets sep.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

NEC requires a ground of 25 ohms or less or two rods plus bonding the gas and water lines. I use 3 or 4 rods min. plus bond everything for the lowest possible resistance. I also ground metal ductwork, etc.

[@MattsMadnessOfficial]

well at least it is insulated knob and tube my house has all uninsulated knob and tube still in use running all the overhead lights , and I can not find a breaker to shut it off except the main breaker I can turn all breakers off and the lights are still on lol ,I found the knob and tube wiring by accident while in the attic moving insulation with a aluminum snow shovel...it hurt a lot ... all bare wires all buried a foot under flammable insulation and I still live here and to broke to fix it.

[@ElitePokerPlayer]

what about the roof? I was wondering if you should replace the runners with plywood because they do have gaps from the way they made them back then.

[@missmcneal1]

I have a question? about Doorbells? I have a older house that I just paid off and I wanted to up grade the electrical doorbell.I change the wire and now I hear this low humming noise? what is that? I put all the wires in the same way they were in and I can still hear it.?

[@Yophillips3272]

I have outlet that I plugged a fan into, the fan seemed to be stuck and had a burning smell from it, luckily I was awake. I thought it was just a cheap fan but then I got a new fan and it did the same thing the motor hums but the blades don't turn and it overheats. Any answers?

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Temp extremes are always an issue for both Romex (NM) cable and individual conductors inside of BX/MX or conduit. It's very important to use the correctly rated insulation on any conductor. I like MX cable also. There are some applications where EMT must be used in commercial wood frames buildings 3 stories or more, so I have seen EMT in these cases.

[@minuteman2012]

ive seen scorch marks on wood where someone spiced onto knob wiring. the spice wasn't soldered. just stripped thewire and twisted another over it and covered with some old type of tape.

[@jeromewysocki8809]

With knob and tube wiring, if you keep it, you must find every splice and see if it's been properly soldered. This is especially true if someone spliced into the system, modifying how it was originally done. Personally, I would just replace every bit of it.

[@m1ghtysauc397]

This looks like my house. 60 amp, knob and tube, ground was ran but not connected, an assortment of wires just dangling at eye-level in the basement, and there was even a nail which had been driven through the main inside the wall since the day it was installed. Unfortunately, it took our house catching fire in the middle of the night to shine a light on how terrible it actually was. It ended up being a blessing in disguise because no one was hurt, the total rewiring and upgrades was completed today, and I'm even forking over some more dough to get some structural upgrades to the home while the carpenters are there. I'll be able to sleep soundly for the first time in years.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

+Jason Hatherlee I am so glad no one was hurt!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

+Jason Hatherlee Plus, yay on the upgrades!

[@MrPyroguru]

+James Glass Stupid Question Can every house be completely rewired without knocking down all the walls? The copper wiring holding the electrical outlets is getting old and brittle and making necessary connections will eventually be impossible. Someone said your entire house can accessed through the attic and basement. Is this really true?

[@m1ghtysauc397]

I can't speak for every house, but there had to be holes knocked out in our walls. Even if you have an attic, the electricians can't climb through walls.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

+Michael Williams It's possible to be MINIMALLY INVASIVE when doing a complete rewire, but some holes (and a bit more) will need to be cut in order to facilitate running new cable. But, you don't have to totally gut the whole place for sure! Allowances are made in virtually all building codes that allow renovation work to have few points where cables are secure, so unlike new work, for example, that requires NM cable to be secured within 8 inches of the box, dropping a cable from the attic (or basement) to an acceptable existing box is OK without securing it. So, yes, some cutting and patchwork will always be needed, but it's not absolutely necessary to rewire a house. The question is where is the line drawn? Do you also want to insulate? Is there existing insulation in the way of running new cables? Are there fire stops in balloon framed homes that make dropping cables inside wall difficult? Rewiring a house has to be done on a case by case basis for sure!

[@MelPuzon]

Did you put dry wall or lathe and plaster to finish the walls?

[@michaelking42]

I'm impressed that the downspout feeds directly down onto one of the meters. I guess that's how to keep it cool? hehe

[@Matt2chee]

I'd love to see the results of this job, is there any low voltage or home automation going in?

[@samanthacruz6135]

We just bought a home and turns out the electrical is wired all wrong and hazardous.. and the sellers tried to cover it up. We don’t have the money to fix it. So we can’t move in it’s unsafe. And the furnace is also not functioning so there’s no heat and it’s winter?? I have two small children and they can’t live in a dangerous environment. I dk what to do. But I’ve been told I should take legal action. Because they tried to hide and cover up the problems and didn’t disclose the problems before we purchased it . I need help!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@JamesGlassProperties unless nailing plates are used 5. you don't understand over current protection with that statement, but it's a common misunderstanding. Amacity is determined by wire size and other factors to properly calculate over current protection, this doesn't address AFCI or GFCI 6. a great book for you to check out for DIY and to learn more about safely using electricity is Wiring a House by Caudwell

[@Yophillips3272]

I changed the outlet, It looks like aluminum wire, all the other wiring in the house is copper. Do I need to get special outlet for Aluminum? The power works fine now.

[@DavidBerquist334]

if you have to bary a splice sutch as hanging cabnets nail or screw in to wire up stairs is all finihhed no slack to put splice in proper aera is it safe in a metel box with cover good conection twisted trimed even folded in to box no stress i know it wont pass but if you have to work with what you have thankyou

[@MrCinimod93]

now we have a 200 amp meter and panel and most of the old wiring is replaced we still have some of the lights in the half that we didn't gut and re-do yet all the scary stuff is gone and most of what is left is stuf from the 60s it has no ground but the black and white is plastic covered it will be replaced soon i saved the old porcelain 3 way switch and heavy gauge black steel box that was at the top of the steps it was so new when it was put in that they didn't have 14-3 wire they used 2 14-2

[@boydhall1092]

What would be the price tag on this overhaul and what size crew and time of completion?

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Hi, No, you can rewire without gutting. I totally gutted in this case since the structure had problems, I wanted to conceal the HVAC ducts for the new heat pump, and to rewire and replumb. It's hard to estimate a job without seeing it. A general rule of thumb is rewiring is $6000 per floor plus the cost of the service entrance so $10K ish, but that is really general. You should get a licensed electrical contractor on site to give you a real estimate.

[@Doude4222]

bringing power to the light first and not the switch is not sloppy, its whats called a switch leg. All you're doing is bringing power with your line then marretting it with the white on the load that goes to your switch. In the switch it there will only be 2 wires, white and black, and now your white acts as a line and your black acts as the load and on a single pole switch it really doesnt matter which wire goes where. But in the light the black wire will be your line and there should already be a neutral in there because your brought your power to the light first. Basically its just one big detour but its very common you see switch legs especially if the lighting is a one circuit

[@MrK2nn]

Doctor FeelHot (Doude4222) it's sloppy by modern residential standards. having the power available in a switch location allows for future expansion, adding new switches or plugs from the switch location. also new dimmable and smart switches require a hot, neutral and ground to run the electronic circuit boards in the new switches. furthermore if ever you want to relocate the light/ add more lighting locations it's easy to do with just having the switch leg in the fixture and not having to worry about power in and power out.

[@lectroken]

If you are running a new switch leg from a light you now must also have a neutral wire in that switch box. So a 3 wire romex is going to be necessary so that you have a neutral, hot, and switch leg and of course since you will always use romex with a ground wire, you will have a ground there.

[@tanis143]

Funny how here in Oklahoma power is almost always run to the light, though the switch is ran off the hot side. When I was learning it took a bit to understand why the j-box had three whites tied together, two blacks and a white tied together and two blacks tied together.

[@Mr2heads]

yes as long as you only touched the one conductor. actually you could still do this it is just a lot more likely you would be in contact with another conductor inadvertently, even a damp floor.

[@MrCinimod93]

our house was just after k&t it had 2 wire rubber and cloth wire we had 6 wires running in to the kitchen lite all stufed in a old style smaller j box with a 60s round floresent fixture jamed over the top and we had a 60 amp 240v 6 circut panel with a 2 circut diconect used as a sub panel the old guy only cooked on a propaine/oil key mac stove and had 2 120 v lines running to the dryer our house was one of the first to have power around the first one was wired 4 years befor power came with k&t

[@maplewoodsp]

I LIKED this video, and my comments on a personal experience are not meant to reflect on the message of this video. I was surprised that the house was so old on the inside when a brief view of the outside made it appear more modern. No weather heads do give that away. 😱

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

It is confusing. NEC stays the same, but local areas adopt various versions. It gets complicated in non-Dillion rule states (where localities can add more than what the state hands down). VA (where I am) is a Dillion rule state, and with exception for FEMA requirements and the like, we all follow USBC (Uniform Statewide Building Code) which adopts portions from other code sources like NEC, IRC, IBC, etc. It all starts with ICC (International Code Council), but what get adopted into law varies.

[@sku32956]

Wonder how this turned out?

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

It's been extended to more rooms with 2009 IRC which went into effect this summer, so by 2006 IRC you're correct, but it just changed. Good use of fuel for the bonfire!

[@DavidBerquist334]

How did they know live and neutral back in the 20s both wire same color

[@James1toknow]

Yes, I knew that I'm a telecommunication Technician. Although I'm not sure what you are telling me. I can tell you go above the Min code requirement. I have found that NEC changes from state to state.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

You need to have some one come in and check out both the circuit and the outlet! Either there is a small arc in the circuit or the AFCI is wonky.

[@keepthinking2666]

Looks like the house that I'm currently working in right now pulling all the aluminum BX out and also that is spliced in with some Romex and also spliced in with knob and tube you got to love what people think is okay it's usually the people that say yeah I know electric

[@WalterKnox]

knob and tube is fine if not tampered with. p.s you can remove and sell those insulators to sundial wire for 2$ per piece.

[@doninmichigan]

I kept some for mementos from a job I did back in the late 80's. :)

[@WalterKnox]

@@doninmichigan Cool.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@Livinggreen100 1. faulty inductive reasoning on length of service vs. danger--resistance and heat can come at any time 2. NEC does not allow any knob and tube to be connected to NM and NEC certainly doesn't allow running loose ground wires outside of conduit or sheathing 3. everything fallible--it's more so when poor craftsmanship and lack of sound building is employed 4. NEC address how to proper fasten NM wiring and doesn't allow any wire within 1.25" of finished surfaces unless >next box

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@windoes98se Nuetral (ground conductors) become fused when wiring, over current protection, or devices are installed incorrectly and 120v grounded conducting current can't properly make it back to the center tap of the transformer. A number of reasons cause this and all of them are fire, shock, and electrocution hazards. Call a licensed electrical right away!

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Also, I don't generally combine DW and GD, and I never combine bath outlet and lite.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Yes alloy wire needs devices labeled for alloy wire. It's a huge fire hazard to mix Cu and Al wire/devices.

[@0r14n583lt]

Hi James, I have a similar vintage house with lath & plaster walls along with the nob & tube wiring. Do you think I should just gut the house for the sake of doing a complete new rewiring job?

[@bg147]

No, the new wiring can be snaked through the walls without much trouble.

[@RayneAngelus]

Perhaps that's a regional thing? He said it had to do with pinching the wire and the potential for making contact with the wires inside as the wire/insulation ages as a result of that pinching. As for the book, can you suggest any specific volumes (links?)? Something detailed enough to list code requirements, but not so technical as to elude anyone above intermediate electrical wiring skill would be good.

[@OlegKostoglatov]

Strangely enough there is an oufit called Sundial wire that will buy the old knob and tube insulators, lamp sockets, etc, so they actaully worth something as salvage, if you can remove them without breaking them. They resell the stuff for recreating period correct wiring for historical homes with exposed wires, they use new reproduction wire of course.

[@brig.4398]

you think this is unsafe, one house I lived in we had several people living there so they built illegal rooms in the back yard. They took a bunch of extension cords and spliced them together. They then installed outlets in each room. I'm sure the circuits were overloaded and of course there was a fire hazard all those splices, they just wrapped some electrical tape around them. Of course nothing was grounded either.

[@OlegKostoglatov]

Even if you don't reuse it for framing, a lot of the wood found in old houses, at least where I am, is old growth and knot free, so you can use it for making furniture and things. but you need someplace to store it of course.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Yes! AL and Cu don't work together. While there are exceptions, just go with the general rule to keep like with like. Big fires happen all the time because people use incorrect devices with Cu or Al. Local electricians can advise you too!

[@kwk86mcss]

I suddenly feel so much better about the original wiring in my 1920 2 family. I finally got all of the knob and tube removed but that sad part is I'm going to get less for the wire because it's silver plated.

[@DavidBerquist334]

if your out of room on the neutral bar can you put 2 wires in the same hole if you twist them together and its tight

[@MrK2nn]

David Berquist check local code regulations, it will say in your local code electrical book where I live it's one wire per termination screw.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@rwdplz1 That's sadly all too often the case, and you know whoever did the work didn't get any permits! Yikes!

[@OldLordSpeedy]

Possible Mr. Edision's company make this cable structure in this old house? Please do not forget - the time go and more and more new laws come out - and new knowlenge about cable wiring safety.

[@spudth]

knob and tube. The knobs are the big nailed things sticking up. The tubes guide through the joists studs etc. Nothing wrong and a good installation is probably pretty damn safe. screw in fuses are better than most breakers as breakers may not be dependable to cut out at the proscribed amperage while the fuse will always blow at or below its amps.

[@lectroken]

Yes the old fuse systems were intrinsically safe and breakers for household electrical panels in 15 and 20 amp sizes are notoriously unreliable. They are constructed using a bi-metal strip (or at least they used to be in the past but I could now be wrong about it.) and that is the same way your toaster works. Toasters can make 5 pieces of toast in a row and then burn the crap out of the next one. They cost about $5-6 in most cases for newer panels but are simply NOT more reliable than old-fashioned fuses. Of course the old style plug fuses would all fit the same socket on the fuse panel from 5amp fuses all the way up to 30 amp and many 15 amp fuses would be replaced with 30 amp ones with resulting fires. But most industrial large power panels still use fuses as they are very reliable.

[@doninmichigan]

@@lectroken and it's not just the reliability factor, fuses will clear a fault (short circuit) faster than a typical CB. Not so critical for residences, but for industrial equipment especially.

[@alexcoleman3152]

Actually it was common practice to wire power through the lights and not the switch in the 20's not sloppy at all. Also I wire GD and DW on diff circuits but use 12-3 to run them both on the same wire and splice 12-2 from DW j-box for GD.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

You're right--it was really common. I find that most early 20th century homes in our area run hot to the fixture and use the switch on the ground side. It was the wild west back then!

[@WAQWBrentwood]

I have books of that era showing it done like that, not only common but seemingly preferred!

[@FtMadBob]

+James Glass not exactly wild west back then. The National Electrical Code was adopted in 1897 and switching the neutral, not ground, was to code and the norm. This scheme was neither unsafe nor safer than switching the hot wire.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

+FtMadBob Thanks for the comment, but let's break down law verse practice. Yes, NEC has been around over 100 years, but just because a governing body existed doesn't mean safe practices were enforced. In SW Virginia, where I live, new construction homes were going up as late as the 1960's without building permits, so non-enforceable guidelines from the NEC were valueless. So, it was the wild west. The wild west had laws too, and murder was certainly illegal, but how consistently and evenly was the law against homicide actually enforced? So, you've committed a logical fallacy--in part because you don't understand my original statement (which led to attribution bias). That's cool. I'm not busting your balls. I just want you to understand (and differentiate) between guidelines (NEC), the law, and practice. Those are three separate things and you've conflated them into one thing. So, today, we have real black letter law (whatever building codes exist) that are actually enforceable (by a building department and its inspectors), and in urban areas it's now virtually impossible to work without a permit for new construction, so the guidelines passed down from bodies with authority (IRC, NEC, IBC, etc) that get adopted into law in the form of building codes force consistent and safe building practices. So, just because the NEC existed 100+ years ago doesn't mean shit. Those guidelines have to be enforced and this house (and most for the next 30 years after) were built without a single permit. Secondly, you confuse what's unsafe here. The issue isn't that the grounded conductor is switched vs. the ungrounded conductor. The issue is that there is no rhyme or reason when it's one or the other. In this house alone, some lights were switched on the ungrounded conductor and some on the grounded one. That's what's dangerous. It's unpredictable and inconsistent. And, since there was no building inspector, there was no one to even require consistency. I hope this clears up why it truly was the wild west back then. Having guidelines and laws is great, but if no one enforces them, then it's just the wild west!

[@samuelt2072]

From a house that old I'm surprised you didn't find some of those nasty push button switches.

[@jeromewysocki8809]

Samuel T, nothing wrong with push button switches, if you like the antique look. Mine are over 100 years old, and work perfectly for light switches. But all of the old knob and tube wiring that previously fed the switches were replaced with modern wiring to make everything safe.

[@samuelt5131]

@@jeromewysocki8809 it is possible to get new push button switches that look like the old time ones, and they're UL listed. Some of the old switches actually had a capsule of mercury in them to make the electrical contact - not acceptable nowadays, of course.

[@doninmichigan]

@@jeromewysocki8809 I've ran into those push button switches in an older home I worked on in Ann Arbor, Mi. back in the late 80's. I'd never seen one before, and they felt solid when operated, had a cool look to them. Fond memories now for this retired electrician!

[@stephenfiore9960]

.......... What was the overall cost.....????

[@wildwoodtop]

hi Sir .. (I understand new home requirements) but, when rewiring an older home, does the NEC require tamper-resistant outlets? Or does it go state-by-state? Or is it a personal moral decision for safety?

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Code works like this: an international body makes code based on suggestions for the public (anyone can suggest code changes), under this body (called ICC), there are subsets for residential (IRC) commercial (IBC) etc. The councils make code for their respective specialties, but none of this is actual law--just suggestive prescriptive code. In America, each state makes a state wide building code, and in VA, where I live, it's call the USBC or Uniform Statewide Building Code. This makes the code that was suggested from the ICC and it's subsets into law--sometimes states modify these suggestions to fit their needs. Some states do not allow local authorities to make code on top of state code and some do. Those that don't are called Dillion Rule states, and VA is like this. It means that local government can't add additional restricitons, but in other non Dillion states, local government can add more prescriptive code. If there is conflict between state and local law, the state law wins. Now, even in Dillion states there are exceptions to for local government to make extra law, but that's too complicated to address in a youtube response. I can't speak to morality in this case, but all these building laws are made to maximize public safety. Building codes exists for public safety.

[@EvendimataE]

my aunt bought a a 1920's house with exactly the same wiring as that....is there a way to rewire it without opening the walls?....the attic and crawl space under the house are high

[@juanantonio3287]

preferably would be better to tear down for safety reasons and also for better quality for electricians to do their job and do their job by code and professionally

[@James1toknow]

Also, I have to say I'v been in that situation before with older homes, Iv been in telecom for over 20 + years and I had to revamp a church in Ann Arbor MI, that was 3 months long and the prints had to be updated constantly. LOL core holing through cement with AC conduit in the floors and imagining done to find the conduit so we didn't drill through them. Then I had a custom job to a 150 year old Church and rectory in Dearborn MI that was 6 months long by myself. Hats of to ya that's a job.

[@doninmichigan]

I hear ya, there were some interesting buildings and homes in Ann Arbor, and buildings in downtown Detroit I worked in back in the late 80's. Fond memories to reminisce now for this retired electrician.

[@RayneAngelus]

I do take your point on that; I'm aware of older code requirements, as what I know I learned from my father. I know *how* to wire, I know what a J-box is, all that basic stuff. I wasn't aware of these anti-nail plates; that apparently became code after my dad learned how to run wire. On the staples thing, a friend who's been doing lots of code research as part of searching for a home is the source of that "bare metal on insulated wiring is not code" reference. (cont.)

[@RODALCO2007]

Good video, thanks for posting.

[@EvendimataE]

can any color insulated wire be totally stripped to make it as the ground wire?

[@montag4516]

The ground wire is lower resistance. That way if there's any problem or short it will go through the ground wire (path of least resistance).

[@dombasile]

What level of funds were you expecting HUD? I can take the answer offline.

[@James1toknow]

I don't use the term that way unless I run a single leg to a single service. Yes. I get your point, and technically your right. Dedicated means to one load or one specific application.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

It's not the same, although some appliances can function within a nominal range. 208, 220 and 240. There are issues 208 vs. 240 in three phase Delta or Wye set up. In the old days (60's) 220 was generally what rolled in a SE with 110 for the single pole circuits. That's changed now, but being picky with something powerful enough to kill you is always wise and it starts with terminology. That you use language like "call a real electrician" and "its seems like you have 220" I know what u know.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. I think you might not understand what a dedicated circuit is or what NEC requirements are regarding this. Examples (required by law) are 2 20A appliance circuits in kitchen, one dedicated fridge circuit, one dedicated circuit for the disposal/DW (although I use two 15A in this case), one AFCI with 14-3 for up to 11 smoke detectors, etc. Also all living space per 2009 IRC require AFCI. And each 240 appliance gets a circuit, of course, and bath GFCI

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Renovation estimate was $120K (not including purchase price). I'd sub out the HVAC only and would have used my crew the rest. The project is dead because $50K of HUD funds vanished. Ask me how I feel about that (don't). I was good with $70K on my end, but not the full $120K.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

@Techozek Aren't you contrary?

[@berendesb]

why would you run dedicated circuits to everything....you can put around 10-12 receptacles percircuit. (maybe more maybe less)....kind of a waste if you ask me.

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

This house was free of lead and asbestos, so the plaster was actually used to make soil (mixed with mulch and compost) for raise vegetable garden beds. In homes where lead is present in the paint, the EPA make it very clear how to contain and bag the waste material. I double bag everything and and all bags are goosenecked. Your lack of knowledge really shows--properly bagged lead waste is considered household waste, not hazardous waste. Keep commenting--folks need to see this exchange.

[@RayneAngelus]

Why would cables be getting stabbed by screws? Ideally, you ran your cables down the vertical stud channel where the outlet/switch they were going to is located. Otherwise, if they cables are going through studs, you just make note of where those cross-points are and don't sink screws there...

[@JamesGlassJamesGlass]

Ha! That's why a comprehensive plan is needed before you start! Of course, I'm rewiring myself since I can (as well as doing all the reno). The total budget is $120K, so the wiring is a very small part of the total job.

[@James1toknow]

Strange as this sounds I have seen new construction use gas black pipe as ground because the water utilities come in at the service on PVC and you can't use that as a earth ground. Really. It is always best to check local codes though.

[@James1toknow]

Oh yeah its done now both actually. They both had great results and custom work. My name is on the back board.. LOL all of us old guys did that so we got to know each others work by just looking at the installs, and then left our marks. Peace