Illegally Sold and Scrapped | Chicago, Burlington and Quincy 5632 and 4963 | History in the Dark

CB&Q 5632 and 4963 were two locomotives involved in the railroad's steam program that ran until the early 1960's. When those excursions ended, both were destined for the scrap yard. But a railfan named Richard Jensen stepped in and purchased them with the intention to restore them to running condition using funds he generated from his other steam engine: Grand Trunk Western 5629. However, they were illegally sold out from under his nose by the Chicago and Western Illinois Railway to the Erman-Howell division of the Luria Brothers Scrap Company. This unlawful action would lead to one of the two stepsisters being lost forever anyway.
Music credits:
🟢 Henry's Theme (Sad) -- www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Khc...
🎵 Cover by Luke Pickman -- / instrumentmaniac
0:00 - Intro
0:56 - Two Different Beginnings
4:53 - Excursion Services
7:04 - The Stepsisters
10:38 - Illegally Sold
17:52 - The Last Sister
"Chicago, Burlington and Quincy 5632 was a O-5b class 4-8-4 “Northern” built in the CB&Q's shops in August 1940. It was used to pull mainline passenger and freight trains before it eventually became famous for pulling a plethora of excursion trains for the CB&Q’s steam excursion program. By the time the program ended in 1966, No. 5632 was disassembled for an unfinished overhaul, and was subsequently sold to locomotive caretaker Richard Jensen. The locomotive was stored inside a roundhouse waiting for restoration until 1969, when it was illegally moved to a scrapyard. The locomotive derailed on a switch in 1972, resulting in its scrapping and a subsequent lawsuit between the scrapyard and Jensen."
"Chicago, Burlington and Quincy 4963 is a preserved class "O-1a" 2-8-2 "Mikado" type steam locomotive originally built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1923 for the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad. It was used by the CB&Q to haul mainline freight trains before it was leased to the Bevier and Southern Railroad to haul short-distance freight trains in the late 1950s and early 1960s. It was subsequently retained by the CB&Q and used as a source of spare parts before being acquired by Richard Jensen. It was planned for No. 4963 to be restored to run again before it was sold to a scrapyard in Chicago during legal disputes between Jensen and the Chicago and Western Indiana Railroad. No. 4963 was later purchased by the Illinois Railway Museum in 1991, and as of 2023, the locomotive is on static display in Union, Illinois."
🚂 Further reading 🚂
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago...
🟢Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @historyinthedark
🟢Patreon - / darknessthecurse
🟣Discord - / discord
🔵Facebook - / history-in-the-dark-10...
🟢Donations - streamlabs.com/edgerabbit/tip
🔴Reddit - / historyinthedark
🔴Tiktok - / historyinthedark
🟣Instagram - / historyinthedark
🔵Twitter - / darkthecurse
🟣Merch - / @historyinthedark
🟣Twitch - / edgerabbit
Other channels:
🟢Prehistory in the Dark: / @prehistoryinthedark
🟣Gaming and Fanfic Readings: / @darknessthecurse
🟣History Stuff: / @historyinthedark
👔Merch: streamlabs.com/edgerabbit/merch
---
I WRITE BOOKS! YOU CAN FIND THEM HERE:
📚Abyss: www.amazon.com/Abyss-Books-Pr...
📚Pryde: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08...
📚Abyss on Audible: www.amazon.com/hz/audible/mlp...
#trains #railfan #history

[@OmarGreeneotraPedroVerde]

It always sad to see historic machinery destroyed. I was crushed when U.S.S. John F. Kennedy was sent to the breakers when efforts to save her failed. The shipyard is here in Texas and I was going to travel down there to see her arrival, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Yes, I do have an affinity for intricate machinery and again, it always sad to see it disappear.

[@jwrailve3615]

Did it get scrapped in Galveston?

[@OmarGreeneotraPedroVerde]

@@jwrailve3615 Brownsville.

[@DiamondKingStudios]

Near Charleston, SC, alongside the USS _Yorktown_ and the USS _Laffey_ was a submarine called the USS _Clamagore_ and last I went there the _Clamagore_ was being broken up.

[@multifan75]

If I was the owner of 4690 and 5632, I would donate them to a rail museum after their excursion careers. It would help them live longer lives in preservation. No one would ever see a steam locomotive like them scrapped.

[@TrainBoi6095]

I checked CB&Q 4960 and I’m just now realizing that she’s currently at the Grand Canyon Railroad and now she now goes by Grand Canyon 4960 I thought they were two different engines Plus he actually tried saved to save these two but he full blown abandoned 5629

[@lian3101]

the grand canyon railway modified 4960 so much, it doesnt even look like a cb&q locomotive anymore

[@rem-so1ly]

That's right. There was no need to have her changed so much cosmetically. Jensen had nothing to do with 4960 though.

[@Slipperyisimproving]

We're also gonna miss you CB&Q #5632. CB&Q #5632 was illegally sold and derailed and illegally scrapped. After the illegal scrapping of CB&Q #5632, Jensen filed a full on lawsuit against the scrapyard and the Chicago and Western Indiana Railroad. We'll miss you both GTW #5629 and CB&Q #5632.

[@thatconservativetrainguy3864]

5632 was a Chicago icon to us my grandfather grew up on the excursions and it has always been his favorite engine he has videos of her running and slides of her

[@FreihEitner]

I liked your tribute to the scrapping of 5632.

[@thomasavensjr.2790]

It's a true shame that the CB&Q 5632 was scrapped as it had an interesting history of operation as an excursion locomotive during the early 1960's. The 5632 was unable to receive a new home after the Burlington rr steam program was discontinued in 1964 & unfortunately ending being scrapped a few years later. I am glad that the Burlington rr saved four other 4-8-4 locomotives for preservation display (5614,5629,5631 and 5633) which all still survive today and are great examples of CB&Q steam power.

[@DrFruikenstein]

Speaking of CB&Q, it would be awesome to see a vid of the EMC E-5. Being a Northern Illinois native, I've had the pleasure of riding in the Burlington Zephyr pulled by the last running example of the E-5. A beautiful machine with a beautiful train to go with it.

[@joshuaW5621]

This has gotta be the most interesting story I’ve heard from the US rail preservation industry. Too bad 5632 was unable to be saved though.

[@mspetersen]

Menk also couldn't dump passenger service fast enough but he also recognized that the mindset required to operate a successful passenger service was the same thing required to operate a successful Intermodal service. He know dismantling one would impact the other and he was right.

[@matthewpowell2429]

I wonder what would've happened if the courts forced both the railroad and scrapyard to rebuild 5632 from the ground up, regardless of the losses both companies would suffer.

[@fanofeverything30465]

The cost would have bankrupted them

[@bobross4449]

@@fanofeverything30465 well, it would have been fare game at that point

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@bobross4449 Facts They deserved it for destroying a gorgeous machine that they didn't even own

[@sp786fanboy9]

@@bobross4449 There’s no way it would’ve been easy, tho. According to some sources I found, 5632’s remains were sent to the smelters immediately following the scrapping.

[@generalprincecodyhedgewolf2944]

Why Can’t He just Sell them to the ICM and other heritage railroads…

[@mjrodriguez8670]

Sister locomotive to CB&Q #5632, #5614, is on display across from the Pony Express National Memorial in St. Joseph, Missouri.

[@e-train765]

While 5632 is gone, fortunately 4 of her sisters survive, two O-5A’s and two O-5B’s

[@MK-of7qw]

If only Jensen would have had his own short line to move them to.

[@TenderREZ]

6:17, off topic but can we all take a moment and see how chill 5632 is in that picture?

[@CrossOfBayonne]

At least 4960 is still with us now going strong

[@SouRwy4501Productions]

CB&Q 4963 does have something endearing about her, so does 5632. It’s a real shame that 5632 was scrapped, but at least we still have 4963

[@mjrodriguez8670]

B&O #7600 also shoul have been saved, but some goofball sent him to the scrapyard.

[@GrimReaper328]

In Galesburg Illinois we have a CB&Q 3006 Hudson on display at the Galesburg train station with Pullman cars and other railroad stuff in a building and outside in a metal fence

[@anthonyj.adventures9736]

I like how he showed CN 89 at Strasburg when he mentioned Heritage RR. I wish darkness would do a video on #31.

[@vaclavmacgregor2464]

At least something like this will never happen again in USA

[@fanofeverything30465]

After this video and the 5629 video you should do '5 More Preserved Locomotives that were Scrapped anyway'

[@NW-gi1cp]

So the c&wi was the real villain all along 😔

[@southsidediy]

they were cash strapped and dying. They would scap their whole diesel fleet by the mid 70s They didn't have much physical work to do by then requiring their own locomotives.

[@LehrerFamilyWest]

Jenson and Alford E are both in the same category

[@kylestrasbourg4885]

May CB&Q 5632 be rebuilt in peace. (R.I.P)

[@Slipperyisimproving]

May GTW #5629 be rebuilt in peace

[@gregsmith1719]

So many thoughtless people -- Unable to see the future -- Unable to remember the past -- And the past disappears..

[@kennethross786]

Glad 4963 was saved, but a little saddened the IRM had to trade all five of those little switchers for it. Trade four, but keep one for historical reasons.

[@rapidraposa7327]

Apparently in one of the other comments he says that there were actually 6 and they did keep one. Also apparently the others were in poor condition

[@kennethross786]

Glad to hear they kept one. Not to say an industrial 0-8-0 switcher was all that important, but so few steamers survived dieselization that letting one class get cut up to "save";another class didn't exactly sound like progress in steam.preservation.

[@rapidraposa7327]

@@kennethross786 Yeah that was my initial reaction too. Regardless of "importance", 5 for 1 seemed a bit extreme. I wonder how that bargining went down, if maybe they couldnt offer any less to get it or if it kinda worked out convenient to have someone else take the spare broken locomotives they didnt (for lack of a better term) didnt have any use for. Atleast there's still one though I guess and 4963.

[@HistoryintheDark]

As Lukas points out, they had 6 and traded 5 since they didn't need nor have room for the many of the same engine type. They apparently weren't in great shape and the museum only has so much room. It made more sense to save a unique example in decent shape than keep a bunch of duplicates that they didn't have room for and weren't in good condition. A sad reality of preservation is you sometimes have to make certain calls to rescue as many unique locomotive types as you can.

[@vaclavmacgregor2464]

@@kennethross786 I fully agree.

[@richardjayroe8922]

But what about the illegaly scraped uintah mallet

[@Steamerthesteamtrain]

There was also Mississippi Eastern No. 303 that Jensen technically owned but forgot about possibly because of the all the drama with 32, 63, and 29.

[@fanofeverything30465]

Jensen wasn't very good at preserving locomotives was he

[@Steamerthesteamtrain]

@@fanofeverything30465 Well he started out promising but rotted just like everyone and thing does naturally.

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@Steamerthesteamtrain Truer words were never spoken 👏🏻

[@vaclavmacgregor2464]

Well at the end of the day he saved more than lost so i see him in an ok light (Not perfect!Nor Bad)

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@vaclavmacgregor2464 Yeah I guess and to be fair 5632 wasn't really his fault 🤷

[@southsidediy]

The C&WI was one of the first railroads to completely dieselize in 1940. They were owned by 5 larger railroads and existed to operate Dearborn Station and serve as those 5 railroads' route into downtown Chicago. They were in a poor state by the late 60s, passenger rail in general was at that point. Steam was no longer a thing on the other railroads so they had no need to maintain a big steam roundhouse. They were scrapping their RS1s at this time too that were barely 20 years old. When Amtrak formed in 71 and moved all intercity trains to Union Staion, that was it for the CWI. Atleast as an actual railroad that had its own locomotives, crews, and work to do. All of their alcos were scrapped in the 70s too. When Flying Scotsman came to Chicago for the first time in 1970(I think it passed through Chicagoland 3 times in total) It took the old Wabash(one of the 5 parent railroads of the CWI) up from St. Louis and Decatur. When it came into town it would have gotten on the CWI at 74th street junction. Its crazy to think that these two preserved steam locomotives were languishing in that scrapyard just barely 1 mile away at the same time. The same RS1 that was pictured piloting Flying Scotsman and train at Dearborn Station was also pictured towing 5629 out of the 47th st roundhouse for a test run(probably for a Detroit trip on the GTW) in 1968.

[@amtrakproductions-mx9ib]

R.I.P. CB&Q 5632 but at least we have 5629

[@kimmajkosaveukraineroadto1127]

Actually in 1969 Chicago, Burlington and Quincy 5632 was sold to Ross Rowland for more excursions.

[@dangerboyproductions1223]

Rip for #5632 she live a good life like the gtw #5629 but her service had come to an end RIP cb&q #5632

[@williamclarke4510]

The British had more concern about preserving their locomotives. Steam power was the symbol of their rise to power in the industrial age. I have read that there were many law suits against scrappers in England by rail preservationists. When the Bird Brothers, a British scrapper, purchased United Iron and Metal in Roanoke. They freaked out when they found out that there was a steam Locomotive there. When the 2174 was scrapped, the Roanoke Chapter NRHS had close to $20,000 on hand. They didn't even try to lease her long term with rights to restore and operate her. Some of her parts were probably interchangeable with the 611 also. This includes the feedwater pump mixing chamber. It received freeze damage after railbufoons from the Roanoke Chapter allegedly filled the 611's boiler with water. They refused to try to winterize it. I told the museum director "You had better winterize it, or you are liable to have freeze damage.". "Yeah, you had better do it." said the person with me. This person was later instrumental in the second restoration if the 611. I did a follow up towards the end of the 1977 season. I asked the Museum director again if he had done anything to winterize the engine. He had not. "Well you had better blow it out, and you are going to need a big air compressor." I told him. I was walking through the museum grounds and there was a large air compressor. It was lent to the transportation museum by the City of Roanoke along with a jackhammer. The museum was going to use it to remove part of a concrete sidewalk in order to install a miniature train ride. "Shurely they will blow out the 611." I thought. When the 611 came back to Roanoke in 1982, I was eating with two other Allegany Central volunteers after the dedication ceremony. One of them had just gotten a job in the Roanoke area. "Are you going to join the Roanoke NRHS?" , I asked him. "Hell no! I was down there in Birmingham. They did $30,000 worth of freeze damage to the 611 when it was in the park." he responded.

[@southsidediy]

Flying Scotsman would use the C&WI to get to Dearborn Station in 1970. This pair was sitting in the scrapyard and FS would go by about 1 mile to the north. I don't think it took the CWI south out of town so it didnt pass there directly

[@schudder1623]

Stepsisters are always good

[@vaxghost]

The railroaders I knew who actually worked running them for the Santa Fe called that class of locomotive "Mike a doos".

[@dominicbarth8902]

The IRM also sent the locomotive part of KCS 759 to the scrapyard, and they kept the tender. Which is annoying because there are no other KCS 2-8-8-0's still around

[@lian3101]

i dont think the IRM ever owned kcs 759, it wasnt preserved

[@dominicbarth8902]

No they did, it was on the same track in Galt Illinois where the 0-8-0's were

[@pastaweasel5088]

@@dominicbarth8902 KCS 759 was long gone by the time IRM acquired the tender.

[@lian3101]

@@dominicbarth8902 no it was scrapped in the 1950s

[@fanofeverything30465]

At least they kept the tender

[@poowg2657]

4963 is preserved at IRM.

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

Santa Fe ran a steam program but ran into the lack of infrastructure problem. Bad things happen when you put chlorinated water into a steam locomotives high pressure boiler.

[@gregsmith1719]

Sad Story!

[@drivingiron]

At 1:30 and 2:10 you show trains running on the left (unless the videos are transposed). I thought that trains in USA always ran on the right?

[@southsidediy]

That might have been footage of the Chicago and Northwestern Railway. They famously ran left handed, and Union Pacific still runs their ex CNW lines out of Chicago left handed.

[@spirospagiatis4731]

Make a video about the SEK class Μα, please!!!!!!!

[@dangeary2134]

When it comes to making new parts, it’s not impossible, but it’s also not going to be as expensive as most people think. Depending on what the part is, come on, we are better than ever! Say, a side rod? Machining large parts from bullets of steel would be nothing with today’s milling and CNC machines. Same for other things like cylinders. Boilers? There are a lot of boilermakers still around. I know one, personally. I have actually joked with him about rebuilding steam engines, which he could do. Too many other parts have modern day analogs. Nothing is impossible.

[@Redwagon2012]

Jensen worked at CB&Q?

[@adamtain7627]

😒So someone please tell me again why did CBNQ think that it was OK for them to not only illegally sell Jensen’s locomotives that they very CLEARLY did not own and then just desperately wanting to sell them to a scrapyard instead of a museum? And when Jensen literally tried to reimburse the scrapyard why did they say not only stubbornly refuse but even going as far as scrapping 5632? JESUS CRIST! Like said in the video, what is the matter with these people? They’re just steam engines not nuclear bombs!!!!!!!!!!!

[@TheSmallestShayInExistance]

Actually, it was only one 0-8-0 as far as im aware.

[@vaclavmacgregor2464]

Ther shoul be a law agains this!! That should have come in at least 1970 at best 1960

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

What were the numbers of the 5 0-8-0s?

[@HistoryintheDark]

No sources indicate that. They actually had six and kept one for the museum. I think they were all in really bad shape which is why the trade seemed to make sense to save the relatively still intact 4963.

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

@@HistoryintheDark ahhh, still a shame though... but made they will be rebuilt one day

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

@@HistoryintheDark happy 4963 was saved though

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@hamiltonsullivan6563 Or maybe there'll be replicas

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

@@fanofeverything30465 well... the way I see a replica is, if you can rebuild it almost perfectly it just becoms what its meant to be replicating if it's to exact spec!

[@TheGs4_4449]

R.IP. 5632

[@TheGs4_4449]

Press F to pay respects. :(

[@multifan75]

F

[@harrisonallen651]

I don’t what to think about Richard Jensen after seeing that overly used awkward picture

[@CoalChrome]

Alright before this even goes up 4963 still exists

[@Engineerandmechanic]

Hey history in the dark, I have some locomotives to show you maybe you can make a new video about art from steam locomotives I will send you some

[@derekthelehighvalleyfoamer4427]

6:49 So Lewis Menk ordered the Burlington’s steam locomotives to be scrapped, huh? Did that ever occur to you that that sounded eerily similar to that from, oh Idk, PERLMAN???

[@sp786fanboy9]

That wouldn’t be very fair to say. Although Louis W Menk indeed wasn’t a fan of steam locos, he did make some genuinely good business decisions, and although the Burlington Northern merger was James J Hill’s idea, Louis was the one who put the merger into action and set it in the right direction.

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@sp786fanboy9 *Lewis

[@sp786fanboy9]

@@fanofeverything30465 No, Derek was the one who spelled Louis wrong. Really, if you Google “Louis W. Menk”, you’ll see more results of the man in question.

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@sp786fanboy9 OK then I'll have a look 👀

[@class28studios78]

The thumbnail says 5929. Not 5629.

[@HistoryintheDark]

Whoops! Thanks for pointing that out. My bad.

[@class28studios78]

@@HistoryintheDark it's alright. We all make mistakes. Lol

[@vaclavmacgregor2464]

Why are people so stupid to scrap historic locomotives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@@vaclavmacgregor2464 because we can't keep everything. We'd soon run out of metal.

[@raymondleggs5508]

@@neiloflongbeck5705 not really

[@dorkarrijohnson4738]

And I was gonna ask. How? Hard this. Just call up a crew to send a breakdown Crane to put the train onto flat car and transport them to a railroad museum.

[@wdubbelo]

I once again ask for dutch trains

[@toomanyuserids]

He got overextended.

[@graphtonix6607]

I am still very mad that LTEX Rail scrapped EX Amtrak F40PHR unit 275.😡😡😡😡😡😢😢😢😢😢

[@southsidediy]

They are probably going to(if they haven't already) scrap Metra (NIRC 1) which until 2 years ago was the oldest diesel in America operating outside of a museum. I couldn't believe Metra sold it to them.

[@graphtonix6607]

@@southsidediy 😭😭😭😭😭

[@STICKGUYMB]

Bruh, my body is ready ror more engineering f'°upss.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Inflation would have been taken into account.

[@kurtpena5462]

bev-ee-ay

[@opi446]

14h

[@zachpetersen9425]

At least 4963 didn't suffer the fate had happened to her friend. Also in addition, you forgot even what happened to 4960. 4960 also is safe like her sibling on the GCRY(Grand Canyon Railway), although she is a looks a little bit different and runs on a different fuel source. There is also 4978, who resides in Mendota, IL