Improving the News with Max Tegmark

How do we fix America’s media problem? In this episode of StarTalk Radio, Neil deGrasse Tyson and comic co-host Chuck Nice talk echo chambers and the polarization of news with Max Tegmark, physicist and creator of AI media tool www.ImproveTheNews.org, and journalist Jeff Jarvis.
You’ll find out why our media landscape, and by extension our democracy, is suffering because of polarization and distribution of news through social media platforms. You’ll learn what our media landscape has in common with the multiverse. Tegmark walks us through how his tool works with machine learning to aggregate news articles, and how it tries to combat polarization in the way we find news articles. What are the pitfalls of such a tool? Will it even work?
We dive into the idea of objective truth, fact checking, and if big tech is trying to play big brother with our news media. Are readers trapped in their own social media bubbles? Are they willing to break out? Are people ready to challenge their own beliefs or is everybody only looking to confirm their own bias? Tegmark tells us why changing the delivery method of the news might result in less polarization. We explore the differences between scientific disagreement and political disagreement..
Then, Jeff Jarvis joins us to offer some criticisms and compliments about Tegmark’s website. Does the tool offer an accurate picture of the world? Is the material the website aggregates even capable of solving the problem? Discover why echo chambers might be a myth. Jarvis explains the transformation of mass media from the invention of the printing press to our current news climate. Do people need a single, go-to place for objective news? All that, plus, we get into a discussion about America’s epistemological war, how journalists need to take on the responsibilities of educators, and Jarvis gives us an optimistic vision of our media future.
Thanks to our Patrons kbw, Mike l Ness, Ashley Finamore, Amy A, Brandon, Scott, ITinker, Mike l, CrownFire, and Luke skywalker lustila for supporting us this week.
NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free.
About the prints that flank Neil in this video:
"Black Swan” & "White Swan" limited edition serigraph prints by Coast Salish artist Jane Kwatleematt Marston. For more information about this artist and her work, visit Inuit Gallery of Vancouver: inuit.com/
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About StarTalk:
Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!
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[@okamiwolf250]

Pretty great discussion, I feel like this issue isn't talked about often enough today

[@TaterFarmer]

I agree

[@objectivemillennial2117]

I feel like it’s the most talked subject

[@ActionJackson669]

The news doesn't want to bring up the corruption and problems in their field lol they aren't trying to snitch on themselves

[@frankparoots2980]

Never was.

[@joeyshofner639]

It is talked about a great deal. No one is listening.

[@darrylpaulse512]

Extremely excellent video, part 2 please. Another thing, it would be very nice and helpful if you put links in the description of every video of people/authors and their books that you or the guest mentions and use as reference. I would love to read these books and research more about these authors.

[@raduandrei2190]

this video needs to be more popular STAT

[@illyHaddy]

Like and share it

[@FuriousImp]

Stat is correct. Mental health.

[@willnzsurf]

💯

[@MrXrisd01]

Max is awesome! Such a humble dude

[@HK47_115]

6 minutes in and Chuck is already asking the real questions

[@jihadjoe]

Chuck is the best comedian among NDT's usual co-hosts! Eugene is ok, but sometimes he interrupts at a bad time with a joke that's not particularly funny or helpful to the conversation.

[@zzapynys]

I have watched Chuck grow with Neil and StarTalk - he's scary smart actually...

[@gomezmario.f]

@@zzapynys totally agree.. he is well above average

[@SayanSarkarakadragon]

Whenever Chuck starts a sentence in a serious note I get ready for a punchline coming :-P

[@realallthings4700]

Atleast i met a Bengali

[@simplyhuman3982]

So what you're saying is that he's getting predictable? They both seem to feed off each other. It just works.

[@isetmfriendsofire]

@@simplyhuman3982 Maybe predictable in format, but not necessarily predictable with what the punchline will be.

[@simplyhuman3982]

@@isetmfriendsofire well, I can only see him as the comic relief. ( because, he is. )

[@dantemorales8387]

Brilliant. I liked this episode, thanks a lot Neil and Chuck. More science, education and love for a best world.

[@jggrskate94]

This man Max Tegmark need to be more often on Startalk, he's a jewel! Always giving good insight put on a humble manner. Love it.

[@calapsesathir4408]

Chuck Nice !!! Another 🔥 🔥 episode.

[@cheryldee9240]

I watch this for Chuck Nice! I love the way Chuck can get a full-on belly laugh from Neil with his witty yet brilliant jokes. 😍😍

[@harsimranbansal5355]

Max Tegmark! Accidentally bought his book and been a fan ever since! He’s great!

[@Purrfect_Werecat]

Accidentally? xD

[@ouweman2609]

🥸

[@glace5717]

so how does one accidentally buys a book

[@calapsesathir4408]

The last half hour of this show was great. Bring them both back pls Startalk !!!

[@rinzertanz]

... Shocker. In my 66th orbit, and just discovered StarTalk (!?!) What an enlightening, entertaining, informative and inspiring channel! ~ New fan! ~ Thank you all for expanding minds with wit, charm and civility. ~Will be tuning in regularly, and looking back over the 500+ videos I’ve missed. ~ It is SOOO gratifying and encouraging to hear empathetic adults in the room!! THANK YOU!

[@sirjonsmithiii992]

They have just a great dynamic. Such a great show.

[@nicholassavage5325]

Dr Tyson Chuck you guys had an absolutely great and uplifting conversation I feel like this should go viral and everybody should just take a second take the 53 minutes out of their life and listen to what you guys are saying because you're 100% on point and Chuck Jeff was right that was about the most eloquently put statement I've heard in a long time congratulations great job

[@jimmartinson5279]

I was not expecting to like this video. But thank goodness someone is trying to stop the blather. Thank you Max, and thank you Neil for having him on. I just looked through Improve the News.. Thank you. I have it saved in my favorites

[@felicityc]

same. i like this a lot. needs work on their machine learning but in time. how he explained we shouldn't blame people for being dumb is just how i wrote some pieces about some sympathy for those lost souls in qanon. they have reason to be distrustful. it's not even really a bad stance to just be contrarian with the news sometimes. but it went too far

[@Anon-fm8tz]

I only watch star talk chuck is in the video. You 2 have great chemistry

[@cheryldee9240]

You're just like me. I hover the thumbnail to make sure Chuck is there!

[@katiakatia2380]

Beautiful human being❤️Thank you for your caring Max Tegmark🙏There is hope for us humans.

[@BrettCahill]

This issue is the sole reason I had to come off social media, I'm really glad you're talking about it!

[@brilliantlyfree7103]

Anytime you got Max Tegmark on it's a win. Max you the best man. You the best..

[@FIRE_STORMFOX-3692]

Hey Neil thanks for the knowledge and the explanation to achieve understanding

[@johnnester820]

At 31:31 Chuck was the smartest man in the conversation. Absolutely brilliant Chuck.

[@heiksheiks2746]

One of the best discussions coming up about these important issues! Some algorithms do not let person see, what he or she is willing to look/study for.

[@theritebowl9972]

wow loved listening to this topic! great discussion and of course Neil and Chuck were great!

[@kraka2oanIner]

...COOL, that Jeff Jarvis singled out Chuck for his participation. Chuck indeed provides comedic relief (and has his silly moments), but he now and then ASKS IMPORTANT QUESTIONS that require well-deserved attention and consideration. KUDOS, Chuck. And: overall, this was (IMHO) an excellent segment of STAR TALK. Thanks!

[@boaminikam2]

This is such a great episode!

[@mikecarter2208]

It seems that Neil has taken note and improved on the interupting people issue he had and I'm proud of him for it 👏 love these!

[@sherrylennondewitt4102]

This is Brilliant and perfect timing! Plus I'm cracking up 😝

[@fizyknaut8108]

I love these podcasts- they're always so stimulating and give exposure to many great scientists and people, that would have been much harder for me to find otherwise.

[@charlesphilips2045]

Hi Neil and Chuck, I thoroughly enjoyed these conversations. Please let's have more of this.

[@wandahost]

Love the show ❤

[@siszi6]

Such an important startalk episode, this must be revisited!!!

[@carter7246]

Maybe a bit more nuances needed for my taste, but, also not wanting to minimize any other Startalk videos, I feel THIS ONE IS THE BEST ONE YET ! Sooooo inspiring !

[@DoveSimon]

This is an absolutely brilliant idea. I sincerely hope it starts to influence the way people obtain and consume news.

[@DominikJaniec]

Great talk! Thank you for it and for encouragement to treat each other with respect and desire to learn from. However, there is one thing I miss in this episode. As someone told me once: "it matters more what you don't read" - as there is too much things to learn and read, thus you cannot see and absorb everything and you need to choose what you will.

[@leatherface4133]

This channel is so intellectual. ♥️

[@shawnkalas1746]

Loved this episode!! Thank you!

[@M4nusky]

Amazing episode!

[@johnherron3961]

Good stuff - Max is a great professor (teacher). 🙂

[@daviddavies5322]

Thanks Neil, Chuck, and Max. Makes me THINK alot 🤔!!!!

[@truesimplicity]

Nice Chuck(No pun intended) that was deep. Neil love you as always, I will definitely download and refer others to the improve the news ...app

[@paweszymonjasinski7158]

Only i think Chuck outsmarted Neil and Max today? Great episode, i love Startalk!

[@danielandreisx]

Improvethenews is a brilliant idea...The next step should be adding the choice of language. I wonder how much would it cost to have support of all languages on this site. I'm sure it would be very costly, but how much approximately ? Love the show.

[@arisaris3484]

Great video on a very vital topic coming at a critical moment. Everyone as usual was brilliant, even Chuck.

[@coreymcconnell2329]

More more more more more more more more we need more Chuck and Niall and this is the best time to give all this education

[@jasondeboard3670]

Loved this conversation. Thanks!

[@sathanimations1457]

I enjoyed Max on Lex Fridman's podcast. Pleased to see him here as well

[@laredotech]

I want facts without demonizing or glorifying anything. I wish news were like that

[@jackietunberg5819]

Me too

[@cheryldee9240]

We would get "just the facts" if controversy and sensationalism weren't such big money makers. These great minds all left out the profit motives in this illuminating yet fruitless discussion.

[@NarynbekGilman]

@@cheryldee9240 I wouldn't call it fruitless, but I agree with you about the rest.

[@EvanRustMakes]

Check out AP, reuters, PBS, and NPR for highly factual reporting without much bias (it's impossible to have literally 0 bias)

[@laredotech]

@@cheryldee9240 It makes me happy to know that they don't get any ad revenues with me thanks dns filtering and some apks🤣.

[@iamgroot4080]

Chuck was on a roll in this one! 🔥

[@kathryntate6809]

Max Tegmark's idea is wonderful!!

[@vijoin]

Loved it, Neil. This initiative gotta be widely spread out for the sake of humanity! Thanks!

[@clarejarvis291]

Thanks for this podcast.

[@jensbang7329]

Max...your awesome!! ...I've been on your shoulder for a long time!!! Love you man!!!♥️😎

[@MindstabThrull]

The only thing I don't like about this episode is no questions from the public, including Patreon supporters, "because they give us money."

[@OverlordZephyros]

Lets just NOT watch the news networks and just focus on science works for me 😉

[@captainzappbrannagan]

This is so needed. Thanks Max! Thanks Science :)

[@ShovonM]

What a great discussion. Wow! Probably the most relevant Startalk topic in today's world.

[@CristiK24]

Hi. Max Tegmark I rode your book Life 3.0 and now I read Neil Tyson book astrophysics for those in hurry. Salut Max! (I heard you know Romanian 🇷🇴) 👍

[@EDUARDOCAPANEMAecapanema]

Randomize the sliders on landing or create a button that does so

[@Jason-gt2kx]

Best news I've heard in a LONG time.

[@Lisared023]

Great conversation!! There's nothing sexier than an intelligent conversation that expands ones mind, viewpoint and perception!

[@ramkumarr1725]

29:52 Thanks for the candor.

[@waynegosson1793]

Excellent stuff. I’m trying it out as soon as this video is done. Now, will it show me news from around the world ? Because we all know, a lot of the news is held back in other countries and never shown to us.

[@m6h3r]

Great episode

[@Purrfect_Werecat]

I listened to this on spotify today heading to work, and i checked out that website on my break

[@Vidrack]

It’s social science friend. People are changing the way debates go these days too

[@Jager-er4vc]

Max is obviously a genius! A true mind.

[@Lucy_Bayard_John]

Hi Mr. DeGrasse Tyson, I just received your new book today! Looking forward to reading it!

[@jamesbentonticer4706]

That blackboard behind Dr Tegmark is sweet!

[@adrees]

47:06 Chuck breaking it down!

[@gruxalfa]

Love the idea and implementation

[@danielludlow8960]

I totally dig on Max Tegmark as a human being....he is thoughtful and considerate.

[@dylan3657]

i got more interested in comments on news channel than articles and what i seen is it's like people start arguing and lead you away from the article it's like it's deliberate

[@patriciarowan4104]

I love Chuck Nice.....-.what an insightful man.

[@lar1588]

When watching the news, what I do to get a feel for the quality of what my "trusted source" is reporting is to then watch that same news story on my "untrusted" source. The more ridiculous the spin of my untrusted source (ie, the more insults they throw out), the more I trust my trusted source. If my untrusted source has more content and less insults, then I try to evaluate which source has less spin.

[@ramkumarr1725]

47:08 Virtually the same arguments were made a decade ago by Dr Amartya Sen in the book "Identity and violence". Politicians like to polarize if you have simplistic identities based on religion or language. By complex identities violence and politics reduce.

[@joseimpact]

man i would love to grab some drinks and talk to these guys, so cool!

[@suvigyabasnotra7378]

Please do a Science of Inversion from TENET Cosmic Queries inviting Christopher Nolan Brain Greene and our Scientist turned filmmaker 'Christopher Nolan'

[@heiksheiks2746]

That would be really great to discover scientific reasoning of inversion...

[@foifoifoi610]

You said christopher Nolan twice

[@suvigyabasnotra7378]

@@foifoifoi610 Yeah...I noticed after posting. 😅

[@pnut3844able]

Nolan? No thank you. He's such a pretentious d bag filmmaker, not a scientist.

[@suvigyabasnotra7378]

@@pnut3844able I know he's not a scientist...but he makes the most scientifically cohesive films and what's so pretentious about him...? That man takes 6-7 years to decades for completing his scripts which he works on all alone! He's easily the best filmmaker of all time.

[@bikkies]

This is a great idea and it underlines one of my lifelong beliefs. An egotist yearns to be proven right, whereas a scientist yearns to be proven wrong. True science doesn't often state facts but instead expresses an opinion, a belief that the idea is the strongest candidate so far. Every scientific idea is only temporary, a custodian until a better idea displaces it. This is what makes the scientific method so powerful.

[@abwannabe88]

Awesome video. How does ground news compare. I use that and find it quite useful

[@Kingofgrowers]

@ 31 min This is about IQ. What the user has as query worthy thinking. If the quest for knowledge is slight /miopic/low IQ then it may be very mono focusing as a tool. However , A person such as you gentlemen in this panel who have insatiable questing for knowledge then there is the person who may lose hours in query on this platform. Brilliant and as always Max , You and this tool are appreciated

[@stephanienirenberg7426]

This show is so smart. I Love this show. With a passion.

[@madman9639]

If your where to go inside a black hole and ignore the immediate death if u shine a flash light or (any light for that matter) will it help u see anything or would it be the equivalent In luminosity to lighting a match 6 Miles away?

[@letmewatchmyshows]

Great idea I have some thoughts to help improve the news. The polarity is one on a spectrum with more than 360 degrees In political science thought there is a grid to see political identity Liberal on the left Conservative on the right Democracy/trust/freedom in the top Authoritarianism in the bottom That grid will broaden the identification crisis in your algorithm Max and have academic precedent. There are a few more polarities to consider besides liberal/conservative and authoritarianism/self-governance. There is consumer/creator culture, spiritual/secular. Those two are all I beleive need to be placed on the grid to broaden the algorithm to reflect relevence. Additionally, if the interface allows choice by dropping points on the grid instead if a clear "slider" platform, I think you could craft something that provides immense access to people. Also Jeff yes your cool

[@dennisfahey2379]

Great solution. I'd also like to see a distribution map ala visualthesaurus.com. Take a topic and show the branches that are spectrally deviating from that premise and the weighting of that distribution. Bonus points for grading the "validity" of the branches.

[@Souchirouu]

Watching these conversations just shows to me that we desperately need less politicians and more scientists in politics. Sadly, and understandably so, most scientists are not touching politics with a 10ft pole because it's such a mess.

[@felicityc]

politicians have that job because they have no real talents besides speaking and nothing else to do while farming money from real estate/investments. so ye scientists (some of them anyway...) have a lot more to worry about. the difference in perspective is just the right wing is worried about what could happen that won't. the left wing is worried about what isn't happening that won't. science is generally worried about what we don't know but will happen. trying to convince folks we should be worried about things like that is hard unfortunately even if it's incredibly crucial. and then you have the hack evolutionary psychologists..

[@msmith53]

Ignorance is not a sole realm for ANY profession! Education that feeds many beasts and some are predators and some are prey!

[@marcoss6212]

You guys should have a contest with the Glowforge as the first prize, want one so bad since Chuck showed us his wormhole made on it, but I'm broke and can not afford one. Chuck, since you a Nice person, send me one. Hook on your channel guys, keep it up!

[@DaBlondDude]

This is a fabulous idea, I hope it goes global, and multilingual. I offer a nuance, however; both can be right- from their own perspective, so yes I do have to "understand a racist" if there is to be any dialog or hope for growth.

[@felicityc]

There's a stark difference between being right for the wrong reasons and being right from consistency. I agree but there are always ways to both understand why individuals are a certain way (ie, usually, either too much exposure and only one tying factor, or environmental prejudice, or no exposure at all and a complete lack of empathy and perspective, which is privilege) without compromising your state of mind. You can be critical without ever conceding it is right; because it isn't. A lot of the time it's impossible to truly understand without sharing their experiences. However, that's exactly what they need to do with those they're prejudiced against to often break out of that; so the onus is almost never on you. It's on you to convince them to do what you just described, first.

[@DaBlondDude]

@@felicityc agreed on the 'right for the wrong reasons' and trying to understand where they're coming from is quite different from agreement or conceding that they are correct. For the rest I'd say "in context"; racists (for example) have neither motivation nor reason to understand where I'm coming from so if nobody reaches out in dialog there is zero impetus for change

[@deepquake9]

That was cool. The advert was Neil for masterclass 😂

[@ashtreylil1]

@@HopDavid what false histories has he created? Please give sources so I can correct my opinions.

[@ashtreylil1]

@@HopDavid can you give another? The article itself kinda explains that there are memory faults and I couldn't blame someone for a flaw in biology. I can blame someone for being stubborn and difficult to pull out of their initial opinions though. Really the issue is that when you are a smart person you think everyone is mistaken when they say you are wrong. If anything I'd say he has a bias from his upbringing and intelligence, but not that he's doing this intentionally. I think it's that he is arrogant, that's why he talks over people, that's why he insists he's right. Even with all of that I can't say much because it makes perfect sense for his behavior, not that it's right but it's logical.

[@Soint]

great content m8s! bravo

[@frumpeting]

This is so cool! Great media invention.

[@steinidaraasen]

Hey, What kind of artwork is behind on the wall on the left/right side

[@iamgroot4080]

I just love this Max guy 🥰

[@Push-Pull]

Lovely stuff by Max.

[@shanongwynne6439]

super important and extremely relevant.

[@joesmith9139]

I loved it. Thank you! So much wisdom here! The thought We should keep our identity small is just beautiful. But to be honest, I agree with Jeff Jarvis: the fundamental problem is education and culture. That comes before the Big Brother problem and also before the media landscape. About culture I mean individualism gone wild. Jeff says we need to hear each other, we need to find common points that link us instead of dividing us. But if a lot of ppl just feel entitled, the center of the universe, with a big ego, always wanting to be heard but never listen... Now that is a problem. And yes, education can help that, but it would be a long process. And I am not sure we have that kind of time (climate change).

[@fryreartechnology7611]

I'm left handed and in my right mind so is that left handed or right handed... or can I see both to come up with what I see to be correct left minded or right minded just correct or right....? What was I asking again... little confused now but I'll enjoy checking it out

[@TheRubyGamesOG]

It actually took me a while to figure out that max is using a green screen, great lighting! I wouldn't have noticed if his hair didn't glitch out

[@Purrfect_Werecat]

I didnt see his hair glitch out but his hands left a green trail sort of when he gestured fast

[@elck3]

Seriously? Wow

[@michaeladams6847]

5:28 Chuck coming with the heavy facts 🤣😒

[@Apheem]

I love the sound of this app and so far at 6 min in I love this guest

[@christosbereris5483]

Chuck just leveled up bigtime