In Conversation with... Afua Hirsch & David Olusoga | London's BIG READ

[@bobrambo6900]

Hi David Olusoga Simon web (history debunked) has accused you of lying 🤥 about black history in Britain will you debate him ?

[@militarymad2840]

Strange how Afua Hirsch's tells a bus load of tourists how bad famous British people have been when one of her direct ancestors was an African slave trader, don't suppose she mentioned that.

[@erd3175]

You my friend have your own self to blame, you have blood on your hands you have people you destroyed, and you will naturally die out, older opinions like yours have no place in the world no more.

[@stanleyshannon4408]

Ironically, however, the slaves in America probably lived better lives than did the mill workers in Britain. Both sides seem to pander with many omissions.

[@blueband8114]

'Unfairness and disadvantage in this country' say the two successful people.

[@johnnyredpillseed]

"Name a slave trader", he says in challenging tone, while at the same time fighting to overwrite any history that may mention them. Purest hypocrisy

[@forret]

David Olusoga’s Nigerian dad has four children then abandons them (never saw that coming). He’s then raised by the mostly white British taxpayer then gets a cushtie job at the BBC (again the taxpayer) because he has dark skin. He then spends all his time and money on writing books and making films paid by British people about the wonders of black African cultures compared to racist, shitty old Britain....great gig.

[@asweproceed52]

I love that I'm being recommended this video directly after watching a video exposing the countless LIES told by Olusoga in Black & British. He really is shameless, isn't he...

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

What in particular do you think he has lied about?

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

I may have found the video you’re referring to. It’s by a guy who created the channel History Debunked. If you watch his other videos it’s clear he’s a far right propagandist masquerading as a slightly doddering harmless uncle.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

@Asphodelia D what proof would you like? I can’t make you watch his videos, and I certainly can’t make you watch them from the point of view that this guy might well be a white supremacist. He doesn’t even give his name, so you can’t look him up and find out what his credentials are.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

@Asphodelia D found out who the guy is. His name is Simon Webb. I’ve looked up some of his work and he writes from a very right wing position. He doesn’t really have a lot of credibility.

[@ricdontap1]

@@attackpatterndelta8949 He certainly has right wing views, But that doesn't mean he is lying or lacks credibility. I've checked plenty of Mr Olusoga's assertions and would say he lack's a great deal of credibility himself.

[@ChristinaAaliyah]

51:32 "I dont describe myself as English because I dont feel invited to" Wow I dont think you could have said it any better!

[@aaropajari7058]

He should claim such a title regardless of the ignorant. Endless thousands of men and women like him have brought England and Englishness its successes.

[@tat007]

Interestingly, I don't describe myself as Chinese. Because I'm not.

[@blueband8114]

@@aaropajari7058 you do realise England was the most successful before migration?

[@thomasreed49]

@@aaropajari7058 You’ve lost me there’s been no success in Britain since migration well not that I know of. We have lost that idyllic world of the 1950s and 60s that’s not success is a tragedy.

[@aaropajari7058]

@@thomasreed49 Maybe such an idyll was a myth...whatever it was was partly sustained by that influx of people who filled positions in transport amd healthcare. Even Enoch wanted Jamaican nurses over. The end of Empire may be the juncture, amd I am not sure I want our national greatness to stem from such.

[@threetimesajh4700]

When an omission becomes a lie. That's a powerful concept. Thank you again to David.

[@bobrambo6900]

David Olusoga is a liar 🤥 check him out on (history debunked) by Simon Web !!

[@asweproceed52]

If anyone knows about lying, it's Olusoga. His most famous book is FULL of lies. Deeply shameful stuff.

[@johnnyredpillseed]

Remember folks, Britain was always a multi-ethnic, multi-racial society, except when there were any bad bits in its history, when it was most certainly white.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

Does history really upset you that much? I bet you think Churchill was a really nice guy who loved India.

[@johnnyredpillseed]

@@attackpatterndelta8949 That's projecting just slightly. I bet you think Indians aren't even slightly racist.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

@@johnnyredpillseed I never said that at all. The people I’ve met who display your attitude and viewpoint often say Churchill was the salt of the earth. When in actual fact he was more than a little bit of a shit.

[@johnnyredpillseed]

@@attackpatterndelta8949 I didn't mention Churchill, not is my opinion of him of any relevance to anything said. You are projecting. You are making assumptions based upon the myopic lens that you've chosen for yourself to prejudge everything around you. At least this saves you from having to think up anything intelligent to say.

[@johnnyredpillseed]

@@attackpatterndelta8949 If I dislike Churchill as much as you, does that change my original comment in any way? What about if I like him as much as you assume I do? Does that make my comment worse, or better? Please explain how my opinion of Churchill adds any value to this discussion, as it sounds like you might be struggling to make any sense.

[@mickkennedy4166]

IS THIS A WORK OF FICTION? or is man a fantasist.

[@mlchemwolf]

A beautiful conversation, and is one of many examples of how even though we live in different places those of us who are children of the diaspora have the same core struggles. It like listening to the same song being sung with different accents

[@VladTheInhaler121]

Yeah, there’s a lot of black people who have massive identity issues because they need repatriating. Instead they try to rewrite others history as their own, and you’re correct it’s common these days. But so incredibly sad.

[@roberthunt8819]

If this man wasn’t happy then he should have buggered off. 🇬🇧

[@sassmt1]

On the question of whether you should go into the institutions that you want to change: My experience as a woman who has sought careers in male dominated spaces, I have to agree with Oprah's advice. You have to be in good form to enter the belly of the beast. It's also OK to go in and leave when the going gets too tough for you personally. You don't have to ruin your health and your life by making it your personal mission to break down the whole wall that is the injustices in that institution. Instead, get in and get out when needed, and make sure you take away as many bricks as possible in the wall. Those that follow us will remove the rest.

[@aligwekweu]

Very insightful discussion. I really 'feel' Afua and David. I've read Afua's book, Brit(ish); had it on pre order and read it as soon as it was out. Great book, captured and percolated a lot that would otherwise be difficult to condense and articulate. I highly recommend it. Definitely one I will read again. I haven't read any of David's books yet, but I've just added 'Black and British' to my book list. I'd never looked at the 'Britain' project before from the point of view that it was always global and so can never be made 'local' (my choice of word). You don't do such a global empire, and then try a reduce the definition of what 'British' means to being white skinned or reading Chaucer, or drinking tea out of 'China' teacups. Again, great, great discussion!

[@Generalscorpio]

Black and British is good, it's well researched and in depth but it's quite accessible in terms of writing style so easy to read.

[@pjmoseley243]

To get somethings in perspective: If you Visit Nelsons Flag Ship "VICTORY" YOU ARE INFORMED THE SHIP HAD 2 LIFE BOATS!! ONE WAS FOR THE OFFICERS IF THE SHIP WAS GOING DOWN. WHAT WAS THE 2ND LIFE BOAT FOR ??????????? FOR THE OFFICERS LUGGAGE!!!! THE SAILORS HAD TO SWIM FOR IT " EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF" WAS THAT ABOUT RACE????

[@onyx5575]

I thought he was mixed race? That doesn't make you Black

[@pithywriter]

Dear Afua and David, I wonder if you have studied the sad history of UK's white working-class? Yet during the 'cotton famine' (owing to the southern slavers embargoing cotton during the civil war) the poverty-stricken English mill workers who, never-the-less supported the continuation of the 'famine' even though they had no work for 2 years - and so were starving. These workers even wrote a letter of support to President Lincoln's for his stand against slavery. My black, also white working-class friends know nothing about this, also that 'when Britain was the richest country in the world its working people, due to the industrial revolution, were almost the poorest! My black friends assume 'we' were made rich by the Empire - but white working classes got none of it. That vast wealth went to a relatively few families who, btw, still have it. It seems English working classes (who were not taught in school about our own miserable social history) and black people have the same (class) enemies - make a programme about that...! Did you see Mike Leigh's film 'Peterloo'? It was well told, but few working-class ppl saw it bcs it was not shown in big cinemas. I'm fairly neutral about the 'being English' debate and Just wondering why you don't criticise those who are proud to be Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish? Also, can we discuss why Chinese people (and others) in UK seem to be comfortable here and do ok - at least as much as most white working class - which is not brilliant, to say the least. Gandhi was shocked on seeing how poor the English were when he visited the cotton mills, re issues of competition, in the 1930s. He too assumed that all English were made rich from Empire.

[@johnnyredpillseed]

"I think we live in very toxic and divisive times, and whether we can achieve progress by doing what I often do, which is"...creating division with your toxic ideology and race baiting?

[@salopiansheep8913]

Absolutely correct, sir.

[@popshaines5492]

In 1963 I completed my education and left a secondary modern school of 500 ish students located near the city of Oxford. During my entire time at school there were only white students.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

So you’re saying black and Asian kids couldn’t get into your school? Or are you suggesting something more sinister?

[@popshaines5492]

@@attackpatterndelta8949 Nothing sinister. In those days, outside of places such as London etc it was rare to see non whites. The only non whites I remember meeting reasonably regularly were Caribbean (?) bus drivers and conductors.

[@dixiedean4418]

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make. A friend of mine went to school in Jamaica and he saw nothing but black people.

[@popshaines5492]

@@dixiedean4418 D.O. rewrites history by stating that there was always a significant non white presence in the UK. My life experience is that this is untrue.

[@jo18533]

I left school in 2010 and there were only white students.

[@diegogarciachargos9007]

love your work David but u gotta give back the empire medal Sir David (OBE) Im with Benjamin Zephaniah when he declined his empire medal: "I get angry when I hear the word 'empire'; it reminds me of slavery, it reminds me of thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised."

[@sojiadamo5212]

Diego Garcia Chargos interesting thought.....but remember his mother is English so he may have been thinking of her in the honors situation .....🤓

[@aaropajari7058]

No he shouldnt. He is showing that the British ideal can, and very often is, black.

[@herpreetgrewal2838]

He accepted it for representation- he said so. So more black faces have these titles for any kids watching etc.

[@smackedinthejaw]

Both Zeph and Olusoga are both salty, anti-British lefties.

[@mlchemwolf]

I'm an African American, my story of what it is to be an American is different from a white sepermesist. I dont see myself as the other...but America is a land of others...we are a people of different others, and where you stand and who is around you and what you know of yourself and your people shapes how you deal in a world of shifting positions

[@g13n79]

I just finished his book Black and British. An Incredible piece of work

[@ArnoldClarke]

Is it not full of inaccuracies?

[@tat007]

As a work of fiction, I think 'incredible' sums it up. Matched only by his 'incredible' bare faced front.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

@@tat007 what part of it in particular did you think was inaccurate/false?

[@Grangran0160]

Incredible how he can put so much rubbish in it

[@Generalscorpio]

I really like David's work, at least the little I've seen of it. I've read Black and British, I have The World's War and Cult of Progress but have yet to get round to reading them. I sit very much in the middle of a number of debates to do with immigration, Brexit, national identity, multiculturalism and feel torn by what often seem like competing values, trying to reconcile differences that often won't be. David, of whom I've seen sadly very little, always seems like a calm and rational voice for his part of the conversation and for that I'm grateful to him.

[@eboulter]

I loathe that she used the word ally in this context. Afua, you could have just said fan. When you use ally, it immediately conjures up notions of warfare.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

Or Muggles. That’s how a lesbian friend of mine refers to friendly straight people.

[@aaropajari7058]

An ally is also not quite 'us'. It can be a word of exclusion.

[@marshacreary2442]

Such a thoughtful and insightful discussion of a difficult topic

[@rosemarieleonard5345]

Thank you. interesting,illuminating, enjoyable

[@dbn281]

It is referred to as ''Indian mutiny' in Indian school textbooks David, I enjoyed this discussion.

[@carolinekamya2339]

They went where the love is - you can see it in their expression and their focus and determination.

[@watchdogentertainmentlives1646]

They don't know what questions to ask because they don't want the history to RUMU.// IBERIA !!

[@colinpeck5271]

Like a dog with a bone just won't let go. Can you not study a different subject?

[@RouecoFilms]

Brilliant...Thanks

[@kirenkaur7262]

thanks to both of you for bringing black british history and its societal issues to the fore front,your brilliant voices are important to acknowledge minorities and ensure they are respected and represented in all forms of society.

[@christopherkenney4766]

Classic displacement: he's not angry with Britain (the least racist and most welcoming country in the World), he's angry with his absent father. Also: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXfdfqZoiLNgY9U

[@GhostofEnoch]

St. George was Anatolian Greek, not Turkish.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

Like it matters. His point was St George wasn’t English yet is a symbol of England.

[@thescarletandgrey2505]

He looks like a white dude with twistie curls on his head.

[@killuminatoV01]

This is exactly what he is.

[@meapantz1983]

When I saw the words 'Londons big read' I thought this was a drag queen thing. It doesn't help that I just watched Trixie and Katya promote their new book! Regardless I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the video 💜✅🙋

[@nimesh0775]

Honesty is the first step to reconciliation

[@asweproceed52]

Olusoga wouldn't recognise honesty if it slapped him in the face with a wet kipper. His book is full of outrageous lies and has been comprehensively debunked.

[@HowToSaveMoneyOnCarRepairs]

Interesting thought process from that Lola. She hasn't Done Anything Wrong but I wonder what she means by who are we and what are we about...! Also, why are Nigerian so obsessed with America..? There are Good, Bad, Decent and Indifferent People all over the World. Well that is my Humble Opinion Anyway...!🤔🌈😇

[@nimesh0775]

Afua you are an angel! Both of you are incredible and inspiring - also great to hear about how you are powering through the push-back you get for what you do.

[@BillSikes.]

why has this plonker appeared on my feed, I can't stand him ! forever trying to black wash British history,

[@jamesomoz529]

There is a lot of knowledge deficit, it’s all on perpetuated history to fall on knowledge history which is wrong when it comes to the British Empire

[@alanb7027]

Can you please out out the full facts .don't out only your opinion .

[@viv3845]

So many bitter history and current lessons learnt in this video. THANK YOU. Casts a long, painful shadow on the whole History of Human (and non-human) Beings.

[@ChristinaAaliyah]

Oprah! Wow 💕

[@christianprottenuldrich1512]

Thanks very much

[@salopiansheep8913]

Her eyes tell the story.

[@tayosekoni308]

Who’s who guilty

[@helenedwards1468]

Three years on, going so well in America. Thanks for this Afua and David, watch your programmes David now going off to read your book. In my 70’s and so wish we were taught a wider british history.

[@asweproceed52]

Helen his book is full of lies and misinformation. Outright lies. It has been debunked on a youtube channel called History Debunked. I strongly recommend watching the debunking video before wasting any more of your time reading Olusoga's work of fiction. Please.

[@malcolmelias3496]

What a load of nonsense

[@johnwilliams2479]

His a LIAR

[@paulgraystone4919]

rough an tough, thankU

[@tayosekoni308]

West Indian planter

[@IanCullen]

Really interesting conversation. I love watching David Olusoga's social history shows. And have seen Afua argue her corner very well over the years against the pompous bilge buckets on The Pledge.

[@salopiansheep8913]

Normally, Hirsch interrupts and the others are too polite to deal with her by shouting her down, as she deserves.

[@davidsweeney7837]

I would love a full bbc documentary on black history from the roman era up until now. Also it should be a fucking given that we stop caring what creates fear. If history is false then it is not history. I am a white Geordie etc, but being British is being from every where

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

David Olusoga did a 4 part series on Black and British history on the BBC. Should still be available on iPlayer.

[@jo18533]

Exactly, I wanted to be a Japanese person so I moved to Japan and hey-presto!

[@elenamaftei4863]

well said...nice people...

[@eiffeltower7503]

There is a huge push back to teach it in schools. Who is going to teach it? How do you get white teachers to teach this properly?

[@tayosekoni308]

Good question, train them the truth

[@aaropajari7058]

Because many teachers are white, does not mean they cannot teach the history that includes faces and voices of a different colour...just as a black teacher does not need to feel they cannot talk of old white Kings and Queens or Prime Ministers. It depends on the attitudes of the individual teachers.

[@mikligardur9104]

Pseudo Historian!

[@elenamaftei4863]

well said...nice people...