In Conversation with David Frum: The U.S.' aging leadership & Min. Sajjan's Afghanistan scandal

Leading author, journalist and thinker David Frum and The Hub's Editor-at-Large Sean Speer discuss why America’s political leadership-including Presidents Joe Biden and Donald Trump--is so old, as well as the new scandal over the Trudeau government’s handling of the Afghanistan withdrawal in August 2021.
The Hub Dialogues features The Hub's editor-at-large, Sean Speer, in conversation with leading entrepreneurs, policymakers, scholars, and thinkers on the issues and challenges that will shape Canada's future at home and abroad.
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[@Idahoguy10157]

It’s personal narcissism. Politicians who refuse to retire by your 70’s. Letting new leaders step up

[@curtisevans4100]

Hell they won't retire by 80 now.

[@debrakron9049]

Lately they have been serving until death! Even if they are too sick to actively perform their job, they stay in till they’re dead!

[@d.tr6176]

@@debrakron9049 Right. But the party does elect them. It's the party's fault.

[@davidfreiboth1360]

We Americans are ethnocentric to an extreme when it comes to Canadian political matters. This excellent content helps us see ourselves through a less myopic lense. Well done.

[@canuckbucks]

can you provide example to help me understand your meaning? What does ethnocentric perspective re Canadian politics mean to you? I am ernest, no motive.

[@edclarkson638]

I look forward to Conversations with David Frum. I don’t always agree but definitely the incite and commentary help me to understand the stressors in these times.

[@JAGRAFX]

Always great to hear from David! 🌸

[@Rinter6904]

Great conversation. Frum nails so many issues.

[@John-jd8vx]

Thank you David and The Hub. I always listen to Frum.

[@davidwestwater2219]

Screw you then he killed a million people

[@ianleslie6971]

A great show 👏 thank you Mr Frum.

[@jeffnickel4648]

Love David Frum. Saw him speak in Lethbridge a few years ago. Smart dude. Super enlightening

[@christinefraser5566]

Fascinating interview with Mr Frum. He is one of those early National Post columnists that I miss reading. Please have him on again Sean. He has such a good take on what is happening in the world and in Canada in particular. I hope when Pierre Poilievre wins in the next federal election, he has him on speed dial.

[@notlimey]

I've always thought Canada was in the G7 only because the Americans wanted us there - nice to see someone else who knows much more than I state this openly.

[@MelioraCogito]

Canada became a member of the G7 because lyin' Brian _“I'm-the-greatest-Prime-Minister-ever”_ Mulroney gave Ronald Reagan a bro-job.

[@notlimey]

@@MelioraCogito Nothing like reasoned comment to raise the tone!

[@sharehard]

David is brilliant. He is appropriately critical of Canada without being disparaging. He highlights the decency in our society while also addressing the damaging effects of false narratives that paint us as inherently evil. His insights are not only grounding and affirming but also a much-needed dose of sanity.

[@davidwestwater2219]

He's been doing propaganda his whole life and killed millions in the midle east with it. so he should be able to make you feel good

[@justgivemethetruth]

Yes, we Americans seem to associate the word critical with insult rather than criticism as in to point out defects with the intention of improvement.

[@janeferrier4692]

David Frum, when are you running for Prime Minister? Canada needs you!

[@MelioraCogito]

He's too busy playing pretend American-his roots may be Canadian, but his heart is in America.

[@bunsw2070]

You want a guy that thinks Biden is competent to run Canada? Lol

[@xubenny2089]

no thanks

[@hendihorlings2341]

What a great idea! He's too smart to want the job.

[@bunsw2070]

@@hendihorlings2341 He's a fool. Oh my god, Trump is going to destroy the world. Lol

[@christopheradams898]

The us has old leaders for one reason - money! How could frum miss that? It takeshundreds of millions to run and young candidates simply dont have the donors.

[@danburnett808]

Insightful and articulate as always!

[@canuckbucks]

The only KZbin event I have on my calendar. Cheers lads, well done. To quote Prof. Kotkin, "Be not afraid."

[@mkatzfive5]

There is a striking contrast between the age of the political leadership of governors v. senators. I think the reason is term limits. Also, part of the D's problem was triggered by Obama. He was not the choice of the party leadership (Hillary was in 2008), and his loyalty to the party as its leader was limited. The D's got crushed in the midterms in 2010 and 2014, wiping out much of the developing bench. It's not until 2018 that their farm teams field successful state-wide officeholders.

[@ianleslie6971]

The complete collapse of the financial structures were left on Obamas door step. He was tasked with bringing the American and by default much of the world systems back while having the R party engineering a comeback in the 2010 elections. His majority in the houses were a fiction. The so called blue dog democrats were just as likely to vote against any legislation the mainstream democrats were introducing. ECT....

[@justgivemethetruth]

Nailed it very well. Exactly!

[@BradJonesus]

David Frum nailed it

[@denised3139]

We had the Wartime Housing Act in Canada in the 1940s. Why can’t we do it now?

[@michaelrichardson5841]

PEC!!!!

[@davec6146]

Very good. Thanks!! I wasn't very aware of Canadian politics; typical American I guess. I do wish both that "why all the old US politicians" and "dismantling the value of Canada's national identity" could have been brought together as American voters are scared to death of younger politicians (especially those on the left) who often seem to want to dismantle the value of American national identity...so we vote for Joe or Donald or Nancy or Mitch...etc.

[@catherinemacaskill1421]

Does any rational person really believe that Trump is a conservative politician? The man lacks the intelligence and expertise necessary to have a political ideology. I have been a conservative voter for decades. Now I hesitate because the conservative party has gone too far right. The liberals and NDP are too far left. And I could never vote for a Trudeau. Who is a moderate conservative voter going to choose? I certainly don't want religion in our politics in the same way that it is in the U.S. I don't want a leader who believes that only straight white Christian men should have power. I will probably vote for Polieve but I plan to see how far right he's going to take our country. O'Toole was my choice for leader because he is a moderate conservative.

[@davec6146]

​@@catherinemacaskill1421 I couldn't agree more. There are quite a few younger republican conservatives, but Trump "gamed" the system and got his way (in 2016 and this year). He's not an intellectual, but he is definitely cunning. I think its the system itself that is more to blame; just going along as usual, and not doing anything to change to meet the need. so I've chosen not to participate in it this year, reluctantly, but definitely. I doubt it will happen, but I'm really hoping for a third party/movement will arise that will have a real vision for changing this system. Imagine that someone once said ours was a government "of the people, by the people and for the people".

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

So.... my thanks to Big Tobacco?

[@robertrenaud958]

David Frum is an able spokesperson for the Democratic National Committee. Well done.

[@terrylsc1]

Harris should never have got the V.P position in the first place.

[@DanSmith-qx4nl]

He looks just like his mother.

[@denised3139]

I also blame Pierre Trudeau’s multicultural policy for our lack of Canadian identity.

[@Benson_Bear]

When Frum says they got a resolution through parliament that says Canada is no different from Cambodia or Nazi Germany what is he referring to?

[@brucemclennan9715]

The US leadership is so old because the political parties are sclerotic: aging enterprises that suppress new ideas and youthful perspectives. Overlooking the parties is the fact that that US Congress needs term limits for all elected officials- 2 term limits. Yes, you will miss some people that can still be relevant after two terms, but you will cleanse the system of lifetime politicians (e.g. Mitch McConnell) and also dampen the effect of money in an ever-changing roster of elected officials. I am surprised more isn’t said as to how the US currently mirrors that of the USSR in the late 1980’s when three aging PM’s in a row died on the job before Gorbachev got in (Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov-another KGB guy). Needless to say, Citizens United legal case, which allows corporations to make unlimited donations via SuperPacs, must be negated- they really should have fixed dollar amounts for all candidates.

[@JosephHuether]

Interestingly, the Democratic Party faced a similar challenge in 1944.

[@JosephHuether]

I don’t always agree with David but must say he’s a phenomenal spokesperson for whatever is left of what I’ll just call pre-Gingrich conservative thinking. BTW…In my opinion, Canada’s most significant contribution to “international security” is its rarely acknowledged, vast expanse of sequestered carbon in its enormous boreal forests. An accident of nature perhaps, but a significant responsibility in stewardship nonetheless.

[@davidglazer1122]

it is because money ensures that incumbents win in the US

[@davephillips1987]

JD Vance ? i can't see Trump caring about his ambition considering his age. that people are ruthless in politics should surprise no one

[@denised3139]

We need something like the Wartime Housing Act from the 1940s.

[@judykinsman3258]

As a 77 yr old democrat, I’ve never seen a candidate who evoked the enthusiasm of Barrack Obama. 🤔

[@denised3139]

Re lack of Canadian identity, Pierre Trudeau and his multicultural branding is largely to blame. It turned the country upside down. I remember being taught in school (even in my universities!) to be proud that Canada is a mosaic, not a melting pot like the USA. And we were to feel that Canadians were therefore superior to Americans.

[@philipwilliams6291]

And now we realize Multiculturalism was a lie and doesn’t work. Holding onto components of cultural identity such as food and traditions is fine, however we need a central set of core values that binds us all together.

[@PaulineSloan]

I love David Frum! Could Polivierre become a far right leader?

[@gregb.5056]

Far right? He supports reproductive choice, gay rights, Canada's socialist medical system and govt marketing boards for agriculture. You've drank too much TruAnon Koolaid.

[@13579zod]

He basically already is. Listen to some of his rhetoric just before he became leader of the Tories. Poilievre is trying to court votes away from the PPC and seem reasonable to the general population.

[@tommyhaynes9157]

We have to stay with Biden

[@Moekoffee2001]

Irony

[@johnroccaro5491]

I like Frum but I think he is ignoring the diversity of Dem leadership. If a white male candidate is the only way to win a national election in the US (and I don't accept that premise) then there are plenty of such in the Dem party - if you don't see that then take a closer look. I also don't accept the premise that old is bad. Old is experience and that is good. It's not an Olympic event. It's about having sound judgement and ethics. Voters know this. Presidents are elected not because they are media stars (although that can help), they have to represent something that reflects the values of the electorate. Trump (unfortunately) represents a key American value - rebellion.

[@MB-xe8bb]

The young have ideas that are too radical for the old Americans -- gay acceptance and marriage being a big one. So that makes the young unelectable. The old in the US are conservative and unaccepting of new ideas, and won't vote for such candidates. Other countries are more tolerant even among the older generations.

[@Saratogan]

Erstwhile Canadian here. Canada needs to turn in their country card and beg to join the USA like they should have done 248 years ago.

[@Steve-eq8iz]

I honestly have no idea why they keep paying Frum to do this stupid show.

[@rickveleke6966]

“Over-rewarded” Respectfully, reaganomics’d the hell out of 99% of those who live here. Secondly, evacuation prioritization would always include an intelligence assessment of threat level. Which group do you think would have been higher priority taliban target of opportunity, Hindus, Sikhs or Canadians?

[@rickveleke6966]

Who was more boots on the ground than Sajjan?

[@catya3668]

An establishment Democrat like Mark Warner or Roy Cooper would be great VPs for Whitmer or Harris.

[@paddy1952]

What if Canadian soldiers had died trying to rescue those Afghani Sikhs? Does that even matter? You guys didn't even mention it.

[@politicalofficer832]

he's an expert on US affairs but don't know the facts on Canada. I hate Sajjan too and I also think Canada should be more serious internationally but he's pulling facts out of his ass

[@Theguys1]

He’s hoping Polievre will somehow give him a job. Too bad he’s been living in the US for decades. He’s probably an American citizen by now. Maybe he’ll clarify this for us.

[@djsmith2871]

You forgot misogynist. Can't forget the dastardly misogynists with unacceptable views.

[@ravipeiris4388]

Biden had the following issues immediately prior to the debate: A) He was recovering from a cold that day. B) He had a number of campaign events earlier in the day of the debate.

[@Theguys1]

The Pictor library? Gees!!!

[@Theguys1]

Pardon me - Piston. Look it up on a map.

[@Theguys1]

That’s Picton! Google wants to change this village’s name. So, have fun in Picton, David.

[@williamh9372]

frum is odios.

[@PirateRadioPodcasts]

NEO-CON traitor.

[@jumblyman]

Biden was going to lose. Now it’s a dead cert. Anything is better than Biden and Trump must be avoided

[@carlinggreen7679]

2% for NATO now.

[@ravipeiris4388]

Biden had the following issues immediately prior to the debate: A) He was recovering from a cold that day B) He had a number of campaign events earlier in the day of the debate.

[@gregb.5056]

He spent the debate day at Camp David, like had for a week. Funny how he was able to shake hands in a restaurant right after the debate and the cold was gone. Use your head.

[@ayleneasp8933]

Dear David, You laid out the situation in Canada quite succinctly!

[@HarryF-tz5fo]

You get Biden because you lie to yourself

[@catherinemacaskill1421]

Biden is not a convicted felon who has dreams of becoming a dictator. Take a look at project 2025. It's there that Trump and his lackeys in Congress have revealed their plans. Trump has been very open with his fevered dreams of retribution against his enemies both real and imagined. He's not a conservative. He chose to join a party that was full of conspiracy theories and victimhood. Even former members of his own administration are not voting for him. Including the vice president he failed to help when a mob was screaming they wanted to hang him. Rex Tillerson allegedly called him an f'ing moron. That's being kind.