In Conversation with Kathleen Stock

[@gladiator652004]

I like how clear and straightforward is this philosophy lecture!

[@nickofhelmet]

Thanks everyone for doing this for those overseas!

[@Aradwain]

Fantastic. Thank you so much for these lectures!

[@msjaneleaper]

Very interesting talk. Dr Stock mentioned several books and authors. It would be useful if someone would list them here.

[@luizaribeiro2141]

one of them is Cass R. Sunstein, "Social Norms and Social Roles"

[@kito-]

I thought this was really clear, I think I agree with Dr Stock

[@pseudonamed]

Thank you for this very reasoned, rational take on how to approach norms and stereotypes.

[@maxdashu]

Norms are not necessarily "adaptive"; they are often maladaptive, vide patriarchal constraints.

[@RenegadeContext]

Norms can be both I think the point is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater

[@robbiespence6504]

Kathleen Stock starts at 4:00

[@wendylewis4591]

Kathleen Stock is simply brilliant 💪🧠💪

[@luizaribeiro2141]

1:02:17 "I just think here's a new history to be said about patriarchy. I find the idea of patriarchy is a totalizing explanation, it doesn't work for me, but there are certainly areas of power which are male dominated, and they are a big obstacle"

[@pythonjava6228]

My basic position about gender abolition is this: masculine and feminine are not the issue. The issue is the idea that men HAVE to fit a specific masculine role and women HAVE to fit a specific feminine role. If gender is the idea that people SHOULD do certain things otherwise they face social and economic punishment then we should get rid of that. It's reasonable to keep the understanding that some (but not all) sex related norms are fine with the condition that conformity is not a necessity and people are free to choose whichever norm they like or move between the two. (Of course none of this implies that we forget that female and male sexes are relevant categories.)

[@reddragonready]

That is very easily gotten rid of...just don't play along and be yourself

[@RenegadeContext]

@reddragonready if it were that easy it would have been done by now. Social conformity is a strong force, look up the bystander effect and social conformity experiments

[@pythonjava6228]

Totally agree that sexed psychology os an empirical question which to my knowledge has not much evidence behind it if we acknowledge that the brain is mosaic and plastic. This is not to say that there are no average differences between males and females with a biological basis. It is merely to say thet the term hardwired does not properly capture that these differences are not necessarily uniform, inevitable or permanent. The reason i object to hardwiring as a concept not because i object to difference but because there is demostrably a slippery slope between saying x is hardwired and trying to block people from making some social change like increasing the number of women in stem. Even if there's hardwiring that favors male representation in that arena its not the only reason aand people often assume it is.

[@pythonjava6228]

At 43:45, I would argue the idea that we should keep the norm for women caring for young children and mitigate the consequences would only work if we established a new norm that men should play a more active role in child care. For instance if we offer paid maternal leave then parental leave for fathers should also be available. Ive seen some intelligent approaches to offer extra pay for maternal leave (in addition to the baseline amount) but only if the father takes leave. I think its a shame for women to lose their jobs or fail to advance in their careers because of uneven distribution of chilcare. It's also beneficial to children to have contact with fathers during their formative years in addition to being advantageous to both parents.

[@es4666]

What about those of us who enjoy being traditionally feminine (want equal opportunities not equal outcome though) but I like looking and acting feminine.

[@maxdashu]

Wow, Wittig missed a big piece there. Where did the oppression originate then, if not from an instrumentalization of sex? Body reality is not the same as "sociological reality." Cart before horse...

[@JosyPoetry]

I didn't catch the name of the scholar who made the point about the taboo around the word 'victim' coming from the misconception that the opposite of victim is 'subject', can anyone help me out?

[@miriamlana833]

"My focus is on the female sex." Question: Whose focus should be on the male sex? If anyone focuses the male sex, they are shamed as "MRA". There are of course many social norms which specifically harm the male sex, pointing out them should not lead to be shamed.

[@joandarc4643]

I haven't watched the whole thing yet so possibly you address this - but wrt to sex separate spaces and other similar norms (around 34 mins) - do you tihnk in a world where the oppressive ascpects of sexed social norms were abolished we would need this? eg, if we 'solve sexism' men will pose far far less danger to women - therefore would say a mixed sex hostel dorms actually be totally fine? (i'm not set either way just asking!)

[@joandarc4643]

also if we say my above idea it 'right' - then what you say shortly after (around 36min) makes me go - 'oh , people are rtrying to 'abolish gender' in this way - but they're starting with the easy stuff that leaves women vulnerable to men who haven't had the harmful parts of their gender 'abolished' (eg, we can fairly easily mandate mixed sex public loos, but men will now simply more easily attack women because you can't mandate men not being sexually violent so easily! (like i know its a law but obv it aint working!))

[@pythonjava6228]

Even if they pose far less danger there would still be issues of privacy, embarrassment, trying to limit accidental pregnacies and the few remaining instances where violence would still be an issue. For those reasons sex segregation would still be necessary. And obviously in sports its a no brainer.

[@lawrence18uk]

5:30 Gayle Rubin - interesting idea that one's sexuality might be more influenced by behavioral aspects rather than physical aspects... I guess for some people that might be more the case and others less. For me, the physical dominates, eg females sing and move (dance) one particular way, males in a different way.

[@iristhornton7904]

Read more about Rubin, awful.