In Defence of Joseph Campbell

[@REDDAWNproject]

I like your video because you used funni vine boom

[@REDDAWNproject]

Also, that "time and place" point was actually maddening holy shit.

[@fruitylerlups530]

im literally like, probably everything these people claim Campbell excludes, im very much a sexual and racial minority but.. I dont see how Campbell's ideas trap people or exclude them? So the recent She Ra cartoon by dreamworks is overtly campbellian but its also features a quite diverse cast who playfully interact with archetypes, another thing I found special about it is how it brings the monomyth into the drama of the characters. Campbell is for girls, campbell is for gays, campbell is for freakin asexually reproducing omnisexual aliens.

[@blaketheshepherd]

Campbell didn't create the prescriptive tool; Vogler turned it *into* one, and many popular videos/articles on the Hero's Journey are describing Vogler's version while attributing it to Campbell. It's so pervasive that info on Vogler's version almost drowns out info regarding the original.

[@tomfoolery5844]

The authors of this article have clearly never played Marathon

[@STEPHENPASTEL]

The inductive method used by Campbell is also used by material scientists, and is therefore legitimate. Nevertheless, a dishonest researcher could skew the results to fit his/her desired thesis by - for instance - utilizing samples with a population bias (as Alfred Kinsey infamously did). I know that J.R. Tolkien used the monomyth idea to bring C.S. Lewis to Catholicism, but I don't believe he drew it from Campbell, but from his own thorough knowledge of history and religion. As long as people treat Campbell's ideas as theories - i.e. postulations for further anthropological research - they should not harm the general public. Knowledge of possessing the truth - natural or revealed - usually gives birth to charity towards the person next door: a desire to share the good things one has discovered, for love of that person. Campbell's aesthetics are rooted in Aristotle, St Thomas Aquinas and the Jesuit philosophers: fine art is primarily communicative, and provides us with a virtual intuition of the human soul, in a state of (contemplative) rest. Like all great human works, the fine arts help us to love our neighbour more, through various devices that move our mind, emotions and imagination. Once an artifice is only operating on a visceral level, like pornography or voyeurism (i.e. torture porn), or 'agitprop' level (i.e. Bob Dylan, The Clash, Stryper, etc.), one falls entirely from the 'heaven of art'. I'm surprised that no one has taken Quentin "violence is funny" Tarantino to task, on that one...

[@billyb6001]

Generic writing........unlike episode 8, captain marvel. WW1984, Velma.....

[@companydrew]

we don't have a mythology that unites us

[@christiandevey3898]

ah yes, the brand new story of Dune, which defiantly didn't come out in 1965

[@paulcarmody2402]

Campbell points out that the hero is a person who must bring back the elixir to participate in the field of time, society, and so forth. The heroine is the embodiment of participating in timelessly in life. A man must earn his place in society, the respect of his peers and so forth. A woman is put in a hut and meant to come to realize the role that she alone plays in creation. That doesn't mean that the woman can't be a hero, but she has a distinctive experience that men will never have without transforming into a more creative being.

[@noheroespublishing1907]

This "critique" of Campbell sounds nearly identical to the "critique" of Marx; not actually engaged in, and characterized into a strawman that is constantly treated like it's the real thing. It's like people who talk about Class Reductionism and act like Class isn't one of the most inclusive structures to exist, the Working Class includes all races, sexes, genders, ages, professions, and skills. *What are your thoughts on Harold Bloom's Anxiety of Influence? Bloom also tended to be over simplified. Art is the one true human religion, the place where all Gods are interned, the religion of the endless revelation, with countless prophets, apostles, worshipers, and critics.

[@Martinmd12-zt7vu]

Thanks for defending Joseph Campbell. It’s like you seriously are going to say that Cambell is dangerous? I want to know what the motive is for the people calling him that.

[@itachi65ful]

People who use words like "harm" in the way it was used here is nothing new. All of history people like this exist.

[@hanumananky]

people give any excuse to shirk off moral responsibility and continue to act selfishly, their criticisms of joseph campbell are hypocritical projections of their own inner mind.

[@christiandevey3898]

Please do not do that thing where you intentionally talk too closely into the microphone to create distortion, it hurts my ears

[@holbvgbbbbkfz]

Stop bitching.

[@sulaiman3128]

Josh, I can’t express how concordant our thoughts about story, and certain thinkers are. You are a man after my own heart.

[@josh_from_xboxlive]

Love to hear it :)

[@officialthomasjames]

In my opinion, the story of Jesus is the universal and transcendent hero story. Peterson made a profound statement about Christ, saying that He may very well be the union of the objective world and the narrative world.

[@jazzflute]

I’d avoid the whole blowing out the mic sound thing. I don’t feel that it’s necessary for you. I think what drew me to your channel was the lack of stuff like that. Good work though, keep it up!

[@Grandof-the-PentastarAlignment]

I dislike it, too because it slightly hampers understanding but it kinda works in isolation and on rare occasions, not multiple times in a video and definitely not in every video.

[@kimathitalton8709]

I actually disagree and think it's hilariaous

[@grantcriddle1326]

I can't believe these critiques. Is this a parody? Josh, you are quickly become my therapist. We align on practically everything.

[@grantcriddle1326]

This is all post-structuralist identity nonsense. The heroes journey doesn't care about gender, sex or religion. Its a personal journey into the unconscious mind. I feel the hero's journey is not defined by scope but by personal journey. The social media generation just look for relationship to identity and tribe in everything and look for gaps so they can announce injustice. Just utter nonsense.

[@lastjedi-1]

@@grantcriddle1326 to piggy back on that a bit, their arguments don’t really hold weight or have any real logic to back them up. Like they’re just talking shit. That’s why they’re so easy to debunk.

[@mdd4296]

It's ragebait, all over media nowadays

[@Grandof-the-PentastarAlignment]

@@mdd4296 It's not just ragebait as the people writing these articles do try to further their agendas and influence how we and our children will remember essential truths and certain individuals seemingly and ironically just for their identity as a white male. I had the pleasure to argue with someone in real life about Joseph Campbell who read one of these articles cited by the video and believed every single point without questioning. And I really can't fault her for believing it when she hasn't engaged with more than the often repeated simplified bulletpoints of Campbells work that really make it easy to think that what he wrote is only applicable to men, so she really would have to spend time on a topic that has been described to her to be a waste of time not just because of his views but also her only having mild interest in stories at all. His personal views did not color the book at all, everything can still be applied to all individuals fictional or real. There is nothing more ignorant than not believing something solely because of a dislike for the messenger.

[@REDDAWNproject]

also, I found your "pseudo fundamentalist" point interesting; but I think there is a fundamental incongruity between islamic fundamentalists and buddhist fundamentalists; an essential part of fundamentalist islam IS the need to cure the non-believer. Fundamentalist buddhists and Amish communities don't have that perscription. Now Idk if zizek acknowledges this difference in his writing, but as presented, I don't know if you call fundamentalist islamites "Pseudo". Part of thier moral baseline IS the need to destroy the modern world and replace it with thier own. That does suggest some form of insecurity though, but i'm not certain if it suggests thier fundamentalism is... not true fundamentalism.

[@Grandof-the-PentastarAlignment]

The lack of meaning would be a better generalization for the motivation of all the modern radicals as it's exactly from that state of mind that they get the idea to do something as absurd as to discount Joseph Campbells work and truths despite having read his sound reasoning and seen his genuine evidence. But as always, we can not differentiate malice from real stupidity which is the inability to understand anything but ones own myopic viewpoint. Commentary Extras: I had already typed out this paragraph while watching the video before seeing that somebody posted pretty much the same text. - The Zizek quote never rung as a true statement because the fundamentalist islamists say to destroy the non-believers is a virtue in and of itself, explicitly part of the way of truth. Amish and buddhists have zero interest in spreading their beliefs, the comparison is completely unfair because intentions and values are fundamentally different. The motivation for an individual to follow through with their belief of violence as a righteous act may be influenced by repression or doubt but it is unfair to claim that no fundamentalist ever actually acted according to his belief system. There has to be evidence of hypocrisy or doubt in the individual case, it can't be blanketly assumed without misrepresenting the truth.

[@REDDAWNproject]

@@zogwort1522 thanks, it seemed a little too good to be true to beleive buddhists wouldn't engage in that sort of behaviour either.

[@anthonylicciardi8771]

this is so beautiful. literally yelled out “that’s the point” exactly the same time you did. thank you for sharing

[@Duckwriter]

Firstly, thank you. Secondly, thank you again. Thirdly, let's get started building the Universal.

[@sevenidols607]

Ok. Are you a Marxist? If you are then you deserve puppies and rainbows for defending Joseph Campbell. I thought everyone of the postmodern era had rejected him in favor of postmodern thought.

[@stilljaywalking4957]

Literally uttered "Thats the point..." in unison bro

[@The_preserver_x16]

Those who strive to demonize Joseph Campbell are individuals attempting to bury the truth and beauty of works

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

George Lucas sounds like Jordan Peterson sometimes, and Campbell agreed with him 😡/s

[@lastjedi-1]

I wasn’t going to, but I decided to look up the article myself. I wish a hadn’t, for it awakened within me the most snowflake of feelings. I felt a deep urge to scream aloud in an incoherent rage and all at once I finally understood what it really was to be “triggered”. But I realize now that that’s what the authors wanted, and so instead I learned to calm myself and let the man wearing the Daddy hat destroy them. Crazy right?

[@thr33shadows]

Aye I see what you did there 👏🏼 well done sir

[@arnowisp6244]

"The Best lack all Conviction" Who in the world writes thus nonsense? The Best do no lack in Conviction, They have plenty of it especially with how Hard life is. Those who lack in Conviction never rise and end up washed away. They may never even leave there rooms.

[@vincentsaia6545]

As for #5: Every civilization that has existed in the world - for good or bad - has been dominated by men, therefore the myths originating from these civilizations would be male-oriented which is not Campbell's fault.

[@chrislove2412]

Oh fuck i’m bob i’m bob geldof

[@StephenGutknecht]

The people who dismiss Campbell also can't seem to grasp Finnegans Wake - and how it is the root of Marshall McLuhan and Joseph Campbell's work

[@groobly6070]

Joseph Campbell was one of George Lucas’ inspirations for Star Wars. That alone already makes him worth reading.

[@Oscar-dc4ur]

Ok, but there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging how shitty of a person he is.

[@cyclon74]

Joseph Campbell never wrote prescriptive writing advice, but his work has been used as a prescriptive tool by other authors time and time again who do give such advice.

[@HeyNimbus]

I'm a big fan of the professor, but I've never found evidence of a certain anti-Semitism. Is there evidence against him about that? It would be shameful.

[@kevinclary1522]

Truth tellers are only dangerous to Liars!!!.. 💪🤙💯

[@gatelesscollective4738]

All these critiques tell me that the people critiquing him did not truly read his work.

[@officialthomasjames]

“The best lack all conviction” may be the worst quote I’ve ever heard. The entire reason why so many young people are struggling today is lack of meaning.

[@therianthrop5346]

awesome breakdown and analysis. thank you

[@williambranch4283]

A wonderful folklorist.

[@halfabeet]

I'd love to see you cover Frazer's The Golden Bough and The Occult by Colin Wilson

[@josh_from_xboxlive]

Wow, that's an intimidating task. I've only read about a quarter of Golden Bough, and none of The Occult. One day I'll be ready :)

[@halfabeet]

@@josh_from_xboxlive The Golden Bough is such an inspirational work, definitely worth persevering with :)

[@juergenbloh45]

Well done, thank you

[@josh_from_xboxlive]

Thanks for watching! Find me on Letterboxd letterboxd.com/jeshuam/ Instagram instagram.com/josh_from_xboxlive Patreon patreon.com/Josh_from_xbolive Twitter twitter.com/josh_from_xbox

[@vincentsaia6545]

Well said, sir.

[@user-ej5gx7ph7q]

Good job,

[@Eval999]

I hope this channel hits the algo. You're doing awesome stuff!

[@Yodetgherezart]

❤❤❤

[@tysyzygy]

These people you describe just envy Joseph Campbell and want to write as if they are superior - of course. But your defence reveals in clarity - they don't really understand the profound work he did - they probably think the monomyth is a template for more George Lucas movies. They probably missed that he expanded on Jung's work of the archetype and that he was a paramour of the Goddess and hardly 'masculine' as he describes that the early myth-makers had a heavenly 'mother'. Also, as you say Greek myth - well Plato's allegory of the cave is probably the first written attempt to explain the 'monomyth' - which is not a homogenisation of storytelling and heromaking, but describing the trials and tribulations of individuals in coming to the archetype of the self and individuation.

[@clementine793]

What about him loving Hitler… doesn’t that warrant a reexamination of his philosophy and morals??

[@Dino_Medici]

MY GUY. THIS IS SWEET! I love your thoughts in the description as well

[@davidhysen5930]

Right on. 👍. Like blaming a basketball player for not being able to play baseball , or missing a shot here or there. The player is amazing on the court at what he does, and brings to the game: Joseph Campbell was brilliant and inspiring! Yet these negative authors can just play arm chair quarterback and look for any piece of possible wrong ness. Joseph Campbells work opened my eyes to reading different stories. Never made me look at stories as the Same.

[@MichaelMcloughlin-c1e]

Appreciate your video. Only recently started to look into some of the works of Joseph Campbell after many years. Currently reading what he edited of Carl Jung. By chance online came across a great deal of critics regarding his works and of him personally. A real surprise. Having seen several of his talks and interviews years ago, always felt something of the transcendent, including its beauty was projected. Felt his intent was helpful rather than some limited or negative agenda. Thus felt that popular trends or limitations of insight was a possible cause of the harsh criticism encountered. So, again appreciate your video. Personally very helpful. Thanks.

[@Dino_Medici]

This made me think of Pressfield’s The Artists Journey. He’s a gay author framing the hero through a female lens. When he discusses the artist, he says “she” in the spirit of inclusivity and rounding out the conversation. Every single word from the book applies to me. So yeah, shits beautiful. Rather than going any deeper into this I’ll just leave you w a quote lmfao The role of the artist is to uplift themself The role of art is to uplift humanity

[@nanoalvarez8677]

The « Hero Worship » point is so legit. I was rewatching the first TA Spiderman last night (didn’t finish it) and now that I’m an adult, I was struck to see how immature Peter Parker actually is and how one of the main focus of the film is him becoming responsible. Like the first conscious use of his powers is vengeance against the potential murderer of uncle Ben and against the bully Flash. In parallel, his relationship with Dr.Connors might also be an immature one but it’s more hard to defend it because I think he wanted to follow his father’s footsteps… nonetheless, he prioritized this over his responsibilities over his uncles !

[@jonathanedwardgibson]

Marvel movies show how tiresome Hero Journey's are. Campbell was commissioned to develop these principles charged with developing a new mythos the intelligence agencies could manipulate citizens around. Waiting for a Hero to arrive is a lesson in demoralizing populations into inert passive populations. The old soviet maxim applies, "When the people need a hero, one will be provided"

[@jonathanedwardgibson]

Yawn. Defending the larger creative argument of a Hero Journey is beside the point of it's utility to State. He was a Reich-wing nut.

[@user-ej5gx7ph7q]

I have learned from JC for 40 years and I still have ah ha moments of epiphany, deeper understanding

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

17:38 but there's a great example: angry Star Wars fandom. 😂

[@katakesh8566]

Jessie Gender just put out this awful video. And I'd love your two cents on it. She repeats the same wrong talking points from RLM. Thus failing to engage w/ the work where it is

[@Dino_Medici]

Omg you really blasted off at the end that was brilliant papi

[@LambPear]

Quality video 🙂

[@hian]

I'm thoroughly bothered by the fact that your channel has yet to take off. As a person who's been working for close to a decade on my own passion project and occasionally find myself struggling with doubt as I see my own views on storytelling pulled through the shortsighted sludge of contemporary critique of thematically driven narratives, your videos have served as a font of both confidence and edifying inspiration. I don't consider myself much of a writer nor do I imagine my work will ever resonate with a large number of people, but your videos are a necessary and potent reminder that the torch of appreciation for mythical storytelling hasn't yet perished to the march of modern irony and cynicism; and as such, they have helped me revitalize on many an occasion. Thank you.

[@Dino_Medici]

What kinda project you banging out speak on it

[@hian]

@@Dino_Medici Just your run of the mill overly ambitious epic fantasy/Sci Fi story, weighed down by world-builder's disease and my obsession with symbolism and philosophy. IE probably not something most people would enjoy reading, but definitely something I enjoy writing at my own leisure.

[@tashuntka]

Joe says, "Hi." 🤷‍♂️✨️✨️🙏✨️✨️🤷‍♂️

[@bustedinsevenseconds1678]

I think making the argument that Jospeh Campbell can't be held accountable for his book because "he's just critiquing the myths" is lazy. Critique in and of itself is mashing opinion with objectivity. I will also say that myths are inherently masculine (one of the things you claim he can't be held accountable for) seems to be an idea that Campbell did subscribe to, unfortunately. He specifically turned down Maureen Murdock who presented him with "The Heroine's Journey" by saying that women were the goal for the hero, not the hero. So the fact that that is observed in his book shows that his politics bled into his readings. I love Campbell and I love Star Wars, the thing wholly inspired by THWATF but you can't outright say that Campbell isn't responsible for the ideas in the novel because they're merely "observations" isn't a very good defense.

[@TheZachary86]

I lost it when you say “it’s ok” to cherry pick evidence. No it’s not ok, are you even hearing yourself? There is a huge problem selecting stories (not to mention twisting the stories) to fit his narrative. The result is that he makes false archetypes, and wrongly associate other mythos to his archetypes.

[@poop-for-brains]

Talking universal to the particular and particular to the universal in the description, absolutely love it. Especially the argument that fixing on the particular will make you a "foot-soldier capitalism's alienation." Mao Zedong called the analysis of the particular to the universal, and back again, the "Marxist Theory of Knowledge" in his very succinct work "On Contradiction." A dialectical world outlook with historical materialism as a supporting structure really opens up world history in a holistic way. Mao would argue that fixation on the particular, to see things as disconnected from one another and the view of change coming from outside forces rather than the internal contradictions of a thing, is at best vulgar materialism. An outlook which he argues came about with the social advancements that led to capital as a stage of human history. Science and technology of the previous 4 to 6 centuries (depending on how you want to define capitalism, the scientific revolution and the renaissance/enlightenment) is the basis of capital's expansion. It could not arise at any previous point in history because the productive forces (the tools and technology used to produce commodities [an object with no value to it's owner but to be sold]) were not developed enough to have labor itself become a commodity, as Marx pointed out. The insistence that we abandon ideology is an ideology itself, but an ideology where the holder is unaware of their own ideology. That ideology is incredibly useful for capital, because it's destructive and not constructive. It gives us no scaffolding to build from and it continues to reassert the status quo, much like the first type of myth which Campbell noted.