In Defense of Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves

In this video essay I take a look at 2023's Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves. I dive into the production, why it failed at the box office, and why I think it's a great movie that deserved better.
Dungeon Dude's Video:
• The OGL Explained
References:
Abbott, B. (2023, January 6). D&D Ogl controversy, explained - all the drama explained, and why you should care. gamesradar. www.gamesradar...
Farnell, C. (2023, March 10). How dungeons & dragons: Honor among thieves became a high fantasy heist movie. Den of Geek. www.denofgeek....
Nuli, S. (2023, January 14). The Dungeons & Dragons Ogl controversy could negatively impact the movie. Game Rant. gamerant.com/d...
Pierce-Bohen, K. (2023, June 11). 10 reasons dungeons & dragons: Honor among thieves bombed at the box office. ScreenRant. screenrant.com... reason/#:~:text=10%20Honor%20Among%20Thieves%20Had%20Poor%20Marketing&text=It%20had%20a%20slim%20commercial,would%20go%20over%20opening%20weekend.
Music Attribution:
"Study And Relax" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensecreativecommons...
"Apero Hour" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensecreativecommons...
"Smooth Lovin" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensecreativecommons...
"Sincerely" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensecreativecommons...
"Midnight Tale" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensecreativecommons...
​Morning Routine by Ghostrifter bit.ly/ghostrif...
Creative Commons - Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported - CC BY-ND 3.0
Free Download: hypeddit.com/t...
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[@Imperial_Squid]

This is a really great video but I think we should wait until Jarnathan gets here to discuss it properly

[@christophersanders3252]

I agree. I really think Jarnathan should be here to hear this.

[@EmotionalSuffering]

We still waiting for Jarnathan?

[@ChrisAllen-hh3xo]

“Ohhhh, Jarnathan!!”

[@ninjapenguin1284]

Yeah I mean how is he gonna know our whole backstory, this is the biggest part

[@gsimon123]

That entire opening sequence and character is legendary

[@TheSaphireKatana]

The fact they made a mini campaign for the cast to know their characters is both wholesome and amazing

[@snakeman830]

It's also honestly a necessary step to make a good D&D movie.

[@hawkname1234]

@@snakeman830 It's not. At all.

[@Akeche]

@@hawkname1234 If you're wanting to make a "D&D" movie rather than just a "Fantasy" movie, yes.

[@thomasroomie3520]

@@hawkname1234 Yeah why would you say it isn't necessary? It 100% IS lmfao

[@KhreamedKhorne]

​@@hawkname1234Yes it doesn't help at all having your actors understand the source material, ok. Lol do you even read what you type before submitting?

[@MaliciousMallard]

“Pissing off your most diehard fans right before the release of a movie was beyond stupid” lol, Disney moment

[@michaeljedlowski4227]

Classic. So on point...

[@robertbell307]

​@@michaeljedlowski4227except Disney still mostly makes money

[@zimriel]

TSR moment, even. If you were there for the Lorraine years.

[@Nemo12417]

To be fair, I don't know how much communication went on between Hasbro and Paramount.

[@reffa2858]

But Baldurs Gate 3 broke records....

[@edvaira6891]

Dungeons and Dragons was, basically, The Princess Bride for the 2020’s…an almost flawless comedic fantasy adventure that was released at an odd time against dominant competition…it also disappointed ($30 million on a $20 million budget) but became known as an absolute cult favorite! I have a hunch this will too

[@felixhaggblom7562]

It will be fondly remembered for a long time, I'm sure

[@cheesy_87]

The princess bride is a horrible, boring mess with dumb characters and an extremely stupid plot. Only someone who watched it as a child could possibly like it because of the nostalgia. Watching it for the first time as a grown-up was one of the worst movie experiences of my life. Comparing the the DnD movie to that trashy thing is not even possible. Honour Amongst Thieves has good jokes, a great story, some good characters, and yes, it is goofy, but not on the level of humour a third-grader would have. It can be enjoyed without cringing every five minutes

[@lightninjohn5651]

@@cheesy_87ok

[@MothplusmoreMoths]

@@cheesy_87disliked

[@sev1803]

The main difference being that princess bride was actually good

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

I think WotC killing its public image was the final nail in this movie’s coffin. The high budget and poor marketing were always going to be big hurdles to overcome but diehard fans are the most vocal, that’s where good word of mouth comes from. If your only exposure to D&D was your coworker who keeps dice on his desk then him telling you not to watch the movie is a really good deterrent.

[@zimriel]

Especially if you'd got burned watching that first D&D abomination. Ye cats it was bad. Like, "The Room" bad.

[@hawkname1234]

WotC didn't kill its public image. TTRPG KZbinrs went on a misinformation-based moral panic campaign for clicks and money, and then all released competitor products.

[@thatnerd1]

Thats actually a really good point

[@saltoftheegg]

​@zimriel people are insanely hyperbolic about how bad that movie is... I think men just hate that the villain wore lipstick and the hero was a cute twink. Men hate it when cute twinks exist.

[@jliller]

@@saltoftheegg No, that original movie was terrible. The acting was bad, the CGI was bad, and Marlon Wayans was utterly insufferable comic relief. It's a bad movie and D&D fans I know thought it was a pretty lousy D&D adaption too.

[@Rostam-vk9hx]

If it was loved by critics and audiences, and had such a high rotten tomatoes score; it's the studios fault for not knowing how to promote it

[@danielramsey6141]

I don’t think it was just the promotion, it’s mainly the Failure rests upon the People in Charge of WOTC, and the Studio Heads that were over this movie! It’s stated in the video! But I also blame the Folks that we’re TOO focused on the OGL stuff to not appreciate the effort that went into this film! I get WOTC is basically ran by Jackasses, but that shouldn’t translate towards a Film that was keeping itself separate from that Nonsense.

[@zimriel]

@@danielramsey6141 I hang out at some "based" commentboards, and they were decidedly cool toward this movie during its marketing phase. They warmed to it when it was realised this one wasn't going to be hashtag-woke. Leaking the scene with Speak With Dead did help the marketing. I saw it, but I think most of us went for it after opening week. Which means the studio got less of a take; those profits mostly went to the cinemas themselves.

[@jeffy1862]

@@danielramsey6141We had to hurt them where it counted. And the only thing that matters to WotC is their wallet. This wasn’t the only place we struck either. So many people cancelled their subscriptions to their on line services, and preorders for modules and source books.

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

The promotion is really not the issue. Without the OGL scandal there would easily have been a few million people more going to see the movie. I know a lot of D&D players (and roleplayers in general and have played myself since the mid 1980's. None of the people I know went to the cinema, myself included, because of the OGL scandal. Sure, the number of people I'm talking about is not enough for a statistical relevant evaluation but I think it still does speak volumes when out of 60 or 70 diehard RPG fans exactly 0 went to the cinema to watch the movie. Under normal circumstances without the scandal I think at least half of us would have seen the movie in cinema.

[@kiillabytez]

Are we talking about the same movie here?

[@schubertuk]

I am a D&D fan, I loved this movie, and my non-D&D friends (by far the majority) also loved it. But for me, the reason is works is not the comedy, not that it doesn't take itself too seriously - but two key things: (i) the movie feels sincere, avoiding spoof, avoiding the knowingness that has sullied some recent efforts in other franchises; (ii) the movie has heart at the centre of its story - it is a about a man who has lost his wife through some poor decisions, and is losing his daughter through the same mistakes - and the movie prioritises us caring about this and rooting for that lesson to be learned. It delivers in spades on that; all the rest is icing on the cake. --- and without that heart, it would be just icing on a hollow emptiness. It could have easily been about anything other than D&D and I'd have still loved this movie.

[@genericname2747]

It makes fun of itself in a way that the fans like. It doesn't say "Okay guys lets all prepare our spells because we can't recharge until we have a long rest, isn't that stupid and weird? Who made that rule? Amiright?" It has actual jokes that you would find in D&D. Like Jarnathan's name, or an overpowered npc that shows up then vanishes

[@gsimon123]

Totally agreed. Your second point is spot on. The ending choice the main character makes is actually quite powerful and can elicit tears in sensitive viewers who like emotional stories and catharsis. It is a really well-written finale and especially when he's presented with that choice. That wasn't just making a good dungeons & dragons movie - it was making a really great fantasy movie (and great movie in general) PERIOD. It's where that genre made its mark in its early stages with Lord of the Rings - characters making dramatic heroic choices where as an audience you really do FEEL how much they are sacrificing of themselves to do the right thing. Movie understood its roots.

[@bradybaker7650]

I think movies post covid have alot of issues to overcome. You need to be an event movie like Oppenheimer and barbie or dune 2 to do well. There are so many movies now underperforming that would have done very well 2015 to 2018

[@JBTriple8]

yeah Dan Murrell made a great on there flaws and how to correct them

[@HeribertoEstolano]

Yes. Correct. But there's a lot to unfold on that matter beyond post covid. Movies were already becoming "events" BEFORE the COVID pandemic with people going less and less to theatres due to high cost of tickets and mobilty, and the convinience of waiting for it to be released on streaming (even though not all of them went to that first streaming platform most people have), while super heroe movies were one of the few things that got big audience excited for. Post-Endgame MCU has two problems: 1) is that writers seem to not know where to go with the plot and no big event on the horizon. 2) Disney executives expect Endgame Levels of box office with EVERY movie instead of building up momentum with cheaper movies like they did in the first place. Super Hero fatige may or may not count. The COVID Pandemic has only intensified this habbit of only going to theatres if It is a major hype instead of a habit because going to the theatre has become too expensive (specially now with post-pan inflation) and Streaming too convinient.

[@nopepissoff2730]

They wouldn't have this problem if they didn't saddle themselves with obscenely bloated budgets. It's a lot easier to be profitable or a movie with a $15 million dollar budget (Godzilla minus 1) than a $300 million dollar budget (Any trash from Marvel).

[@JDReC100]

There was one major thing WoTC didnt account for when it came to this movie. They really had everything ready and good to go, with many people to this day saying how good the movie is. So what was the thing that killed it. .... The OGL debacle. that was pretty much it. the movie was the main way the fans could show there dissatisfaction with the company's decisions and that was that. shame overall, but quite understandable why it happened. yeah, don't release a near universally bad update to how people can play and experience your game right before revealing the trailers for your new movie based of the very same game.

[@Sin_Alder]

Wow, love to keep seeing people using something that was largely a non-issue for anyone who retained their sanity in the first place as an excuse. It being "post covid" is entirely a non-factor. It's a convenient excuse for people that still lack critical thinking skills, and nothing more.

[@sonfoku73]

I think it's crazy not just that it's good but that it's GOOD. Like it breaks so many societal and film conventions while also paying perfect homage to its source material and being a perfect cinematic experience. I genuinely don't know how it even exists

[@yurisei6732]

It hired a Hollywood Chris unironically, it's desperately clinging to societal and film conventions.

[@TranscendentaLobo27]

It was sooo good. I went in expecting to be disappointed, but ended up absolutely loving it.

[@genericname2747]

Man and woman raise a child together and DON'T fall in love should not be as groundbreaking as it is. I'm so glad there was no romance between them

[@miguelcamacho105]

It also survived production hell, which is a feat in and of itself.

[@Envoy99]

L. B.i I.bi.b?​mb Ipbib. Ipb

[@maggiethecomiccollector]

I worked at wizards of the coast when this film came out. Everyone at wizards loved. Granted this was during the OGL debacle and there was a lot of upsetness at wizards so this was a highlight of my time at wizards

[@peterdafox]

That's exactly why I didn't go to see it, I was mad at wizards at the time. So many people must have worked so hard on this movie and it ended up really showing that love, but I didn't want to support the monolith of bad decisions WOTC was becoming.

[@danielramsey6141]

That’s fine. But it’s such a shame that it affected this film due to that! As for me, I decided To Go and Watch the Film with my Kid Brother and We enjoyed Ourselves! I am So Glad I saw the Early Screening of this movie, and it’s a Great watch.

[@sev1803]

"I worked at the company that ruined dnd and they liked the dnd movie"

[@maggiethecomiccollector]

@@sev1803 which sucked because everyone other then management was pissed about the whole OGL thing. Not all.managers my manager was pissed too. I was let go a few months after the DND movie when management decided they didn't need qa anymore. Management, except for my manager were boneheads.

[@maggiethecomiccollector]

@@peterdafox upper management at wizards where idiots. I had a good manager but above him I always was like how does this person keep this job.

[@TheDesrath]

Anecdotally, among the groups I'm a part of the movie seemed to pick up momentum late in its run as word was getting around that "no it's actually good though". Unfortunately this was when the MTG Pinkerton scandal broke. I know people who still won't watch the movie, citing that incident

[@robertbell307]

That's so stupid since that has literally nothing to do with the film. Those guys worked hard and it was great

[@AlexKlindt]

As a diehard ttrpg person, I still haven't seen the film because of how scummy wotc has been and that position has been the case even before the subsequent offenses.

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

The Pinkerton scandal was overexaggerate aswell.

[@zimriel]

@@TheVampireFishQueen Probably right. I'd not even heard of it and it had little impact on D&D. REVISION: oh yeah, it's coming back to me. Still, no impact on the D&D movie which had already run its course.

[@valasdarkholme6255]

​​​@@zimrielThe relevant scandal pre-pinkerton was the OGL cancellation incident where they tried to retroactively steal all the IP of every creator who made d&d compatible content (using an open licence that predated CC) over the past 20 years. That made the KZbinrs rage, which in turn made the customers rage.

[@doodlemecrzy8075]

I loved the straight laced paladin walking in a perfectly straight line. & the Int checks by the passing intellect devourers 😂

[@jeffy1862]

I will never forgive WotC for the way they kneecapped this movie with their brazen greed, and callousness.

[@zero11010]

"brazen greed" ... it was an industry norm. How do you think using the Unreal game engine works? It's free if you don't make more than a certain amount of money. If you make above that amount of money, then you pay a percentage. How do you think it works if you want to use Star Wars characters? Do you think there's a licensing fee? Yeah, yeah there is. Any other major IP? Pokemon? Star Trek? Jurassic Park? This is an industry norm. It's not greed. If you make less than 750k Wizards wasn't going to touch your money. And, there were something like 7 companies WORLD WIDE that were using the gaming license and very profitable making more than 750k. It was ONLY ever going to impact those people, and any other major companies that came up in the world. And, for each of them it still left the first 750k untouched.

[@LordVader1094]

@@zero11010 Love to see a corpo bootlicker who thinks TTRPGs should have the same shitty industry practices as all the rest.

[@kurtfrederiksen5538]

Main reason I as not going to see it. WotC was doing WotC things and being crappy towards players and I did not want to support that. So I will probably see the movie when it is free on youtube, wait till it hits the bargain bin, or buy a used copy. Also a reason I do not buy EA or Ubisoft games, I don't want to support companies doing crappy things.

[@zero11010]

@@kurtfrederiksen5538 wait till you learn about what gas companies do. And banks. And insurance companies. And food companies. And pharmaceutical companies. How many car companies were responsible for building weapons of war that attacked our nation? No, no … this toy company. That’s where you should draw the line. You need to grow up.

[@kurtfrederiksen5538]

@@zero11010 some times you have to pick and choose your battles. Due to how cities are designed in the country I live in, cars are a necessity so I have little option in that. That, and unless they sold them to directly to the people who attacked my nation, or reasonably knew that they would be used, not seeing how that is on them. Until recently these cars ran off of petrol products, so again no choice there. Even with electric cars, they use a lot of rare earth metals which are mined or refined in China so even they are not really an option. As to the food companies, once you factor in all the subsidiaries and such there are only like one or two of them, so again no choice. So to avoid all this I would have to live in the middle of no where, farm my own food, raise my own livestock, completely off the grid with no electricity, and more or less go back to pre-industrial horse and buggy times. It would even be debatable if I could use modern medicine. Unless you pick and choose your battles, you will not be able to function in modern society. As you said this is just entertainment, I have reasonable choices when it comes to that. You are making it sound like the company is owed my money or attention. They are not.

[@TheEman11910]

and then when word of mouth started to turn it around WOTC and Hasbro sent the fucking Pinkertons to a guys house when he accidently broke the street date on the latest mtg set

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

Seems like that whole thing was overexaggerate.

[@hawkname1234]

You're a complete fool if you let the influencers outrage you with the Pinkerton story. The last strike the Pinkertons broke was A CENTURY AND A HALF AGO. They aren't even in the same business anymore. The name has been bought and sold through multiple companies in that time. Try to have some integrity. They are *insurance investigators* now. Accountants.

[@JDReC100]

@@hawkname1234 dude still had people forcefully enter his home. and even oi that all is false, at the time it happed any bad news was going to be nuclear for WoTC.

[@deezboyeed6764]

​@@hawkname1234cool, still an agency that shot women and children. Theyve proven they would do it and you can be they would again if it was legal. Stop bootlicking

[@genericname2747]

@@hawkname1234 Cool, still broke into his house over cards.

[@Winterfur1]

Chris Pines wants to do another D&D movie so it could happen

[@zimriel]

well... good luck. I'd suggest he hit up the Critical Role, but I think they're all pro voiceactors already so there's not much room for him.

[@4m4n40]

@@zimrielWhat do you mean 'no room'? Do you mean there’s no actual space for him? Or he’s not as popular as them?

[@zimriel]

@@4m4n40 unlike your mom, there are only so many characters you can fit in a show

[@kurtfrederiksen5538]

@@zimriel well if I recall Critical Role has an Amazon series and may be looking to make more. That and they have done a lot of one shots or shorter campaigns and having Chris joining them would be nothing but good publicity. So I feel if he does reach out to them they would be happy to figure out how to work him into their plans.

[@RhantheSlayer]

I was part of a d&d club at my university, and they’d hired a small cinema for the release day, and I was able to get a ticket to see it with the other 30 or so people. We were laughing and cheering and clapping and joking all throughout the film. Unforgettable experience for me

[@vvgirl6173]

A found out a few weeks ago that my brother in law was a background character in this movie. I couldn't believe it until he showed me pictures and videos of him in costume and the small screen time he had. And honestly, it is wild because i love this movie. Made me laugh out loud at the cinema.

[@JimmyC1994]

I LOVE this movie. It made me so happy If you imagine a group of friends sitting around and playing DND then Holga is absolutely played by a guy: "So she's a badass and sexy barbarian and she looks like Michelle Rodriguez from The Fast and The Furious and she really likes short guys" I have a friend who's exactly like that 🤣🤣

[@zimriel]

LOL. And then the DM ran with the joke when they had that halfling former-love-interest end up with a literal giantess. Yeah the movie is awesome.

[@snakeman830]

I saw a description of the characters that suggested Holga and Edgin were played by a married couple, and all I can say is "yeah, that sounds right."

[@Akeche]

@@snakeman830 Just the hubby is playing Holga, and the wife is playing Edgin!

[@SilverScribe85]

I loved it, too! It felt like a TRUE D&D movie AND a true fantasy movie, which was something I was hungry for after seeing so much of Hollywood being littered with disgusting superhero flicks

[@hollyannsimpson3296]

Lol, Holga always struck me as the kind of character a woman would play, based on my friend group! I figured Simon and the druid for cross play.

[@saraghhh]

There are no words for how much I LOVE this move. I was really iffy about it when it came out because the ads were petty awful but watched it on Prime as soon as it came out and was blown away. It truly is on par with the great fantasy films of my childhood, Princess Bride, Willow, Labyrinth and so many more. And as someone who loves D&D it was SO FUN to watch and totally see how it would play out in an actual game, what rolls the character would have been making, and all that fun stuff. So goofy, fun, and satisfying.

[@ClareKix]

I’m not a D&D fan and I didn’t watch this at the cinema upon release, however I so wish I had as it’s a blast! The trailer massively let this film down in my opinion as that also put me off going to see it.

[@calvinbrinenestoris2357]

This movie is an all time top 10 for me, and my favorite High Fantasy movie. Its failure is a tragedy of the highest calibur, and I want a full trilogy plus a spin-off show now.

[@yurisei6732]

Damn, if this counts as top 10 for you, your mind is going to be absolutely blown if you ever watch a good movie.

[@ihavestds394]

​@@yurisei6732what do you hate this movie so much?

[@LeonBes]

I was also pissed that this movie flopped at the box office. People keep saying that they're tired of established movie franchises, but then let IP's that are new to the medium flop. Honor Among Thieves, by the design of the D&D world, could have easily spawned a whole new movie franchise with original characters and stories, but instead we're getting more 20 more super hero reboots and Nintendo movies.

[@valasdarkholme6255]

Hasbro was in the middle of alienating their core audience, and didn't really market it well to anyone else.

[@VeteranDecanus86]

Indeed, we’re tired of the glossy Marvel formula. Unfortunately, that influence reared its head in Honor Among Thieves. Heavy CGI, constant quipping, and an ultimate lack of peril for our heroes (no one permanently dies except the villains).

[@yurisei6732]

"Established and milked corporate franchise that hasn't yet had a movie" is not what people mean when they say they want to see originality and creativity in cinema.

[@dorianr4770]

this! I want a whole series of these movies. and not any more MCU (for now) or Fast and Furious 20 or Transformers 15 or whatever.

[@SamLoser2]

Why the disparaging comment about Nintendo movies? They are also new to the medium and have a wide variety of genres and styles they could pull from.

[@cstoomey]

I've watched this movie at least a dozen times and each time it makes me happy. It's a lighthearted and entertaining film. Not every movie has to be groundbreaking and serious. But I guess that's why we have "cult" classics. I wish they'd make a sequel or a series.

[@dorianr4770]

agree

[@genericname2747]

I mean. A movie making jokes but still letting serious moments be serious is pretty groundbreaking at the moment.

[@toros7983]

5:25 yep that graveyard scene is 100% the reason I chose to give the film a chance. Quire enjoyed it.

[@SilverScribe85]

We can "thank" Hasbro and WotC for making this bomb, thanks to their actions with the OGL for the main Dungeons & Dragons game. After that happened, people said they'd protest against both companies by refusing to see the movie

[@zero11010]

Except most of that was nonsense from children who didn't understand how the world works. How do you think licenses work? Do you think if people want to use Pokemon characters there are no licensing fees? How about Star Wars characters? How about things from the Aliens franchise? Is that making more sense? You pay money to use someone else's intellectual property. That's normal. You want to put an app in the iTunes app store? Apple takes 20% of every dollar that goes through their store. You want to make a video game with the Unreal Engine? Epic Games doesn't ask anyone to pay any royalties unless they make over a certain amount of money. Small companies can use the engine for free and it's no big deal. The very profitable companies have to pay a percentage on money over a specified limit. Dude, this is EXACTLY what Wizards was setting up. This was the major issue people were upset about. Wizards even identified that there were only about 7 companies in the whole world that would be impacted by it, and again, for the first 750k that company makes there were no licensing fees. Let's not forget that without the SRD that product wouldn't even exist.

[@SilverScribe85]

@@zero11010 Tell this to all the people who are STILL up in arms with anger towards WotC

[@zero11010]

@@SilverScribe85 Eventually some of them will get jobs in the real world and deal with concepts like licensing fees. I'm not trying to explain how the world works to a bunch of kids individually.

[@SilverScribe85]

@@zero11010 The main reason this upsets people is because the OGL (to some degree) might affect how people make D&D campaigns of their own. Many among them DO play the game as their real jobs like Critical Role, Dimension20 and other big names within the D&D Community

[@zero11010]

@@SilverScribe85 did you read what I originally wrote? I agree that this is what people are upset about. It impacts virtually NO ONE. About a half dozen companies in the whole world. And it’s VERY normal to pay licensing fees. Games, books, movies, music … totally normal. The people upset about this are children who don’t understand how the world works. The video laid it out … you making less than 750k per year on the wizards license? Won’t effect you. That’s pretty much every single company. Are you Paizo and making more than 30 million a year from things you make with this IP? Well, just like any other industry you’re going to need to pay. That’s what was suggested. Very clearly. Wizards picked 750k very specifically. It impacts nearly no one.

[@nilus2k]

I loved this movie and so did the family. As a TTRPG player for over 30 years it felt like the game. My son, a player of only a few years also dug it. The rest of the family just enjoyed the goofy fantasy movie. The fact that it was a heist instead of some giant epic helped it a lot. I’m sad we won’t see a sequel but it stand alone as a great film that I can enjoy and I’m sure will become a cult classic

[@1.21jiggawatts2]

As a huge D&D Nerd, the thing that showed me this movie was going to be incredible was the Johnathan escape plan. When they mentioned Johnathan was an Aarakocra and that they wanted him at their hearing, I thought for sure this was a reference to the fact that Aarakocra was Neutral Good, meaning that they tend to do the right thing and have loose principles they follow. This alignment would be perfect for pleading your case to and I thought it was an amazing reference. Then they pulled off their escape plan and I was caught so off guard and started laughing out loud in the theater. This movie used my D&D knowledge against me to set up a certain expectation so that their joke could catch me even more off guard. I absolutely love that and I wish more movies based off a source material would do that more often.

[@genericname2747]

*Jarnathan

[@telarr9164]

It bombed because they decided it was a great idea to alienate their most loyal fans a couple of months before the film's release with their OGL cashgrab/drama/debacle/garbage This kind of thing is always aiming at a pretty niche fanbase to begin with so for WotC to declare itself as a boycottable villain was a not very clever move on their part.

[@zero11010]

It's not really a cash grab to do a normal industry thing. You want to put a thing on the iTunes store and charge money? Apple takes a flat 20% of every dollar that goes through their store. You want to use the Unreal gaming engine to make a game? If your game makes less than a million dollars ... it's free to use their engine. If your game makes more than a million dollars you pay a percentage. Do you think it's free to use the Star Wars license? How about Pokemon? Jurassic Park? Do you think it's free to use the Aliens franchise? Do you have any idea how the world works? The licensing fees were ONLY going to impact about 7 companies in the entire world. And for each, the first 750k made wouldn't be touched. They SHOULD be able to make money with their license. It may be a conversation to decide how much money is reasonable. But, to decide that a major IP wanting licensing fees is unscrupulous is out of touch with reality.

[@thekingofcookies4877]

but if the ogl went through successfully then they would be making a lot from the movie, right? That could be reasoning behind it?

[@zero11010]

@@thekingofcookies4877 huh? What does the OGL have to do with the movie? I think this is an excellent example of the OGL drama. Most people have no idea what was being proposed or how it worked or how normal it is to pay licensing fees to access an IP.

[@telarr9164]

​@@zero11010 Interesting that you feel the need to reopen a debate on the outcome of the OGL debacle (yup.. that's what it's referred to) a year later, taking WotC's side no less. A situation that even WotC's PR admitted 'wasn't their best idea ever". But ok. The iteration of the OGL they proposed at the time would have only affected those at the top - at the time. But by revoking the orignal license they would have made it completely non-viable for all those smaller content creators who had created a livliehood based on the existing license to continue because of the risk that WotC would change the deal again. That's why people reacted as they did. People being the core audience of the movie. People who would have been excited to see the movie multiple times. Except many of them watched it zero times.

[@zero11010]

@@telarr9164 that’s nonsense. It’s only the MOST hardcore of fans who were aware of what happened, and cared. How many people do you think that is? It isn’t the average D&D fan. Look at the sub counts on channels. Most fans aren’t watching KZbin videos about the content. And, most of the subscribers subscribe to more than one channel. How many people do you really think this represents. 200k? 300k? That’s a LOT of hardcore fans. Let’s assume it’s 500k people who all were aware and refused to see the movie because of it. That’s about as many people as the subscriber base as some of the largest channels (and obviously not all are in that camp, but let’s go with it). That would be a boost in ticket sales of 2-3%. That’s nothing. I didn’t reopen the debate. You brought it up. Licensing fees are entirely normal in every industry. You’re an adult right? Movies, music, tv shows, video games, comics, books, tabletop games, card games … licensing fees are in every major industry and are totally normal. The fee structure wizards suggested is almost EXACTLY what Epic uses for the Unreal engine. Both are a system that others license to make other games. About 6000 companies use the unreal engine.

[@tcgbattlingmaster925]

You know a movie is good when I’m on a flight, the elderly lady next to me is looking for a movie and I recommend the aforementioned movie and the lady watches the entire thing and tells me when we landed she enjoyed it.

[@charleshaines9715]

The film bombed because of its release date compared to the SRD incident. If WOTC executives wouldn't have been greedy and incompetent, their movie (and other products) wouldn't have been heavily boycotted.

[@schubertuk]

Hmm - I know that is the 'accepted' position - but here in the UK - there is no real evidence to support that, very few of the potential audience would have boycotted the film based on the WOTC/cash-grab incident. The films poor trailer plus the prevailing international reputation of D&D for being a niche nerd's game were by far the biggest factor I could find in people I know who decided NOT to go and see te movie. More their loss - and most of them have since loved it when seeing it at home. Therefore whilst I would not contest that the WOTC incident was a factor, I think it is a mistake for the fan-base to pin all the blame on that.

[@zero11010]

Most of the SRD stuff was nonsense that children didn't understand. At the core, people were upset that a major IP wanted money from people when their IP was used. Dude ... that's how every major IP in the world works. Want to use Nintendo characters? Pay Nintendo money. Want to use Star Wars characters? You pay Star Wars/Disney money. Want to put an app in the iTunes store? Apple takes 20% of every single dollar that goes through their store. Want to make a video game with the Unreal video game engine? If your game makes more than X dollars they take a percentage, and if your game never exceeds that amount you don't owe licensing fees. What Wizards planned to do is EXACTLY what Epic Games does with the Unreal engine. This is all normal stuff. Wizards even identified that there were only 7 companies in the WHOLE world that would be impacted by the change because the vast majority of people using their SRD don't make enough money to trigger the fees.

[@charleshaines9715]

@@zero11010 Dude, just stop. You're so off base it's insane.

[@zero11010]

@@charleshaines9715 Wizards said they weren't going to charge anyone unless they made more than 750k. That was true then. It was reiterated in this video. That was only ever going to effect about 7 companies. The VAST majority of people using the SRD weren't going to have to pay. Do you have ANYTHING specific to say or just "no I don't want to hear it" ? Do a quick search on how Unreal charges for people to use their license. Do a quick search on how Apple charges people who use their platform. Do a quick search on how companies charge people to use their IP. The licensing fees is the biggest thing people were upset about. You're welcome to scroll through the comments here and see people talking about it, or to look back at videos breaking the news as it happened and looking at the comments there.

[@zero11010]

@@charleshaines9715 I pointed at very specific things. It seems like you're covering your eyes because you don't want to see what's going on. Feel free to speak about something specific and how I pointed at how normal it is to pay fees for the IP people use, and you're telling me I'm off base. Paizo only exists because they use the D&D SRD and a quick google search says they make over 30 million dollars a year. How many companies do you think make TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars off another IP and don't pay for it? This is how the world works. If you use an IP, you pay for it. Wizards has been VERY generous so far. Is 20% after 750k the right numbers to use? That I don't know. But, they certainly should be getting paid for companies making wild profits on their IP.

[@sgt.squeegee1720]

The OGL fiasco also contributed to dozens of content creators dropping out of the OGL. Paizo, who makes Pathfinder, a competitor to D&D that was created during the controversial 4th edition of D&D days, pulled out of the OGL, and are creating their own open license as we speak. Not only did the OGL fiasco piss off diehard fans, but also pushed many community creators away and are jumping to other licenses now.

[@hawkname1234]

Almost nothing you wrote turned out to be true. Project Black Flag / TotV is essnentially dead on arrival because it was always based on the lies of KZbin influencers.

[@zero11010]

That's like 90% nonsense. Pathfinder only exists because they're using what Wizards made and haven't had to pay any licensing fees. Pathfinder came out a year after 4E was introduced and it was basically just mild rules adjustments on 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons. If you wanted to make something with the Aliens movie franchise .. do you think you'd have to pay to access that license? How about if you wanted to use Mickey Mouse? How about Luke Skywalker? How about something with Jurassic Park? Dude ... licensing fees are normal. A quick google search shows there are about 6,000 companies who use the Unreal video game engine. Do you know how that works? If your company makes less than X dollars you can use the engine for free. If your company makes more than X you pay either a percentage, or a flat rate. That's EXACTLY what Wizards was trying to set up. They identified that there were only about 7 companies in the whole world who would be paying licensing fees. If those companies ONLY exist because they're using a license for free ... don't you think that company should be paying something? Do you think people can use Southpark characters without paying for it? How about Marvel characters? The VAST majority of people who cried up a storm about this have no idea how the world works. And, most of the "community influencers" who were upset ... didn't change ANYTHING after. Channels like Dungeon Dudes (who have released D&D books) were furious about this. They don't make any real money on their books. They wouldn't have to pay. And, you know what they've been doing for content for the last 6 months? Dungeons and Dragons. They made a big stink about moving on to other systems ... then eventually realized switching to a new system with 17 fans isn't smart when D&D still has millions of players.

[@oscarstainton]

I truly loved this movie. It wasn’t the most artful film of 2023 but it hit the sweet spot of my love of Forgotten Realms perfectly. Which makes its box office performance so heartbreaking, and I hope for some kind of salvation as a streaming series despite that remote chance. As a point of comparison, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the 2016 Warcraft movie as another fantasy action movie with a large audience that didn’t take off, but also received worse reviews.

[@filthycasual8187]

Personally, I loved the Warcraft movie. It had its pacing issues but for what it was, it was a solid effort with a lot of heart put into it. As far as I'm concerned that movie is what broke the video game movie curse, or at the very least weakened it.

[@Ranziel1]

Should've made a TV series. Hell, DnD is almost tailor-made for old-school episodic TV.

[@calvinbrinenestoris2357]

This kinda exists. Ever heard of "Legend of Vox Machina"?

[@nealenthenerd399]

@@calvinbrinenestoris2357It in fact does exist. Dungeons & Dragons 1983. Had 3 seasons.

[@valasdarkholme6255]

The core audience was near-universally mad at the company when it dropped. They also built it heavily dependent on Greenwood's work without involving or crediting him. Despite being a funny fantasy film (which I saw on streaming services, not at the box office), I don't really want another made by the same management.

[@skypaladin9878]

Honestly, my favorite movie ive seen in the theater in YEARS. I recommend it all the time.

[@avidreader8521]

I don't know a single person who went to see Honor Among Thieves opening weekend, and a bunch more who refused to see it in theatres *at all*, specifically due to the clusterf!ck that was the attempt at retracting the OGL. That was the biggest factor that I saw.

[@snarkymcsnarkface1863]

My entire dnd group had planned on going prior to the OGL. We were expecting to mystery science theater the hell out of it. But the OG just added a bonus end session.

[@TempoLOOKING]

You forgot the director told men not to go ..and they did not. Forspoken indeed

[@avidreader8521]

@@TempoLOOKING I hadn't heard the director told people not to go - all I hear was what was said around my LGS's tables - but I'm glad we all stuck together on it.

[@brianshocklee2021]

Sadly it came on the heels of many like myself vowing to never give Hasbro another dollar.

[@catandrobbyflores]

Myself included. Most of my dnd stuff is third party now.

[@genericname2747]

Yarr!

[@zero11010]

That's so spectacularly dumb. No licensing fees for products right? Do you think people can use Marvel characters without paying marvel money? How about Star Wars? How about Southpark? How about the Aliens franchise? Do you think people who sell apps in the iTunes store pay Apple any money? Do you know how Epic charges people to use the Unreal video game engine? If your company makes less than X dollars it's free to make games with the Unreal engine. If your company makes more than X dollars you pay a percentage or a flat fee. That's basically EXACTLY what Wizards was setting up. And, the money aspect is what people were upset about. Wizards even identified that there were a total of 7 companies in the whole world that would have to pay licensing fees. Paizo only exists because they use the SRD. A quick google search shows they make about 35 MILLION dollars a year. Do you think they should pay .... ANYTHING for the license they're using? Hey, what do you think would happen if Paizo tried to make a game with Star Trek stuff ... do you think they'd have to pay licensing fees? Yeah ... yeah of course they would. What do you think would happen if they tried to make a game with any other major IP?

[@cerebrokid86]

It broke my heart to learn that this film wasn’t doi by as well as it should have. My BF and I saw this for our first movie date and we loved it. I have it in 4k blu ray and have been trying to get more people to watch it. It deserves better!

[@Sortofdork]

My wife is an anti-nerd. She actively is disinterested in anything nerdy. I convinced her to watch this movie and she said it was legitimately amazing. She was laughing the whole way through.

[@bjornh4664]

Happy to hear she enjoyed it. My wife began playing D&D in the 1980s, just like me, and we both loved it.

[@matildareeves]

I went and saw it 2x in theaters with one friend the first time, and my actual Dnd party the second. Once it was available to watch at home I watched it again with my parents. It's been phenomenal each and every time. We all felt it did great justice to a game we loved, and it was so insanely fun to break down scenes into how they'd have been played (like spotting specific spells and failed checks, etc. I'm so sad is flopped!!!

[@versebuchanan512]

I watched this once it hit streaming. I remember liking it okay and thinking "That was neat," but I couldn't remember a single line of dialogue or character name if you paid me.

[@belzebul]

Exactly this. And I can't put my finger what exactly was missing... For example I still re-wacth and quote older movies like the 1993's Three Musketeers or The Mummy on a daily basis-but this movie had nothing to offer for a rewatch.

[@akale2620]

I remember the plan b but its just plan a so plan c which is plan b so plan d which is also b so its back to plan a crap, such cringe. Plans failing and the next plan also falls is something I have seen twice in dnd based content, this movie and that cartoon which I dropped when it happened.

[@SerifSansSerif]

It was a paint by numbers movie .​@@belzebul

[@Dannylaquer]

@@akale2620hard ass

[@akale2620]

@@Dannylaquer thx?

[@larslaufer301]

Not a D&D player but I went with a friend who is and we both enjoyed the film a lot. Then bought the film and showed it to my mom and she loved it. I think its a pretty good archivement when you can bring fans and none fans together this way.

[@RelativelyBest]

Honestly, I appreciated this movie simply because it was a fairly lighthearted and colorful fantasy adventure with a lot of humor to it. I am so sick of fantasy these days taking itself too seriously and being all grim and cynical. I want more fantasy stories that are actually fantastical and know how to have fun.

[@PhotonBeast]

Agreed. It seems a continual thing in a lot of genres that anything other than super serious is 'for kids'. That even something hopeful in theme can't be grown up.

[@Tempesta]

I absolutely love this movie. It got my wife and son to start playing D&D and as a lifelong player that is amazing. I'd tried for years but this caught their interest and then in turn, the movie gave me something concrete to point to when I was explaining mechanics. Great video

[@martinrobert6709]

750,000 gross per year for royalties to kick in.

[@davidbowles7281]

Defending WoTC? LOL

[@hawkname1234]

@@davidbowles7281 SOme people are more interested in the truth than in pushing lies and BS agendas.

[@deezboyeed6764]

​@hawkname1234 what agenda?

[@Chris_Myers.]

@@davidbowles7281 They were just correcting the error in the video at 7:30 where he said it was 750 million instead of 750 thousand, not defending anything.

[@5Demona5]

I saw it with my D&D group in theaters and we all loved it. I loved it so much, I went the next day to see it with my husband. He loved it too and he doesn't play D&D Some months later, a friend of mine, who is now the gf of one of my D&D friends, came over to my house and we saw it again It's a shame we won't get a sequel, I would've loved to see that Beholder

[@HeribertoEstolano]

I've seen D&D HaT on day one and enjoyed It very much, even though I don't play D&D since 3rd Edition and return to TTRPGs in 2020 in the Pandemic with Pathfinder 2e as my system of choice. The movie may not be most people favorite take on the Forgetten Realms Lore; It doesn't take Itself too seriously like and R.A. Salvatore Book, or has the dept and charm of Baldur's Gate, but It's definetely the Best represantation of the average Heroic Fantasy Game table if someone tried to make a movie of one of my tables or most people tables with all It's quircks, injokes and incongruences. Me and my friends came out of the Theatre very happy waiting for more.

[@TomWDW1]

I was so disheartened when i heard that there likely wouldn't be a sequel. Everyone was amazing in this. Every. One. Especially Jarnathan.

[@powerofk]

Honestly, it was timing. D&D released one week before Mario. That’s honestly the biggest reason. The second big reason is due to movie theaters deciding they were limiting the number of cinemas that would show the movie.

[@JDReC100]

you forgot the OGL debacle. if you don't know about it....look it up. Its a RIDE.

[@beillyzhu9932]

I was introduced into the D&D-verde through the phenomenal Baldur's gate 3, and now I stumbled upon the phenomenal Honor among thieves movie. 2023 should've been the year to pop off for D&D

[@alicianieto2822]

Meh, it was not awful but it was not good either. Seemed like a bunch of good ideas frim a brainstorm and good gags hurriedly put together following the instructions of a creative writting class. It felt formulaic abd Frankensteiny in the execution even though a lot if the ideas were really good

[@TheCarrShow]

You're right about the trailers. The impression I got from the trailer I saw was, "Oh, it's a high fantasy heist movie." Fantasy movies often take the material too seriously, but Honor Among Thieves strikes the perfect balance between comedy and gravitas. It's got a lot of really funny moments, but you never get the feeling it's laughing at the audience for liking DnD.

[@captcorajus]

WOTC totally screwed the pooch on this one. They could have made some product tie ins... a miniatures line which included the heroes, a tie in adventure in Neverwinter would have been easy money for WOTC, but they didn't do crap. Hasbro released a few 'TOYS' tie in for kids, but nothing for the players of the actual game. What a missed opportunity all around.

[@yurisei6732]

They did, though. They made minis, they made MTG cards, they made character sheets, and they slapped Chris Vine's face all over the internet for weeks. What more product placement could you want?

[@andrewshaughnessy5828]

This was the first film I've been to see twice since The Fellowship of the Ring. All my friends (many of them D&D players) saw it too, and we all loved it. I now own it on Blu-ray!🤓

[@velocitymg]

I saw all the other movies and had no hope for this movie…but, honor amongst thieves was brilliant, it was funny, had action, characters were great, it just was a bloody good flick. No one I know who saw it had a bad thing to say and neither do I…in fact, I’ve watched it 4 times now which is really rare for me to revisit a movie so often and so quickly. If you haven’t seen it…it’s a definite must see even if your not a dnd player

[@UncommonCommander]

Big fan of the movie, big fan of the game, almost didn't watch it because of the OGL issue. My sister brought me to it in theater for my birthday, and that's why I saw it. It was a fun, funny romp and I thoroughly loved recognizing the main villain. I loved the paladin... I used to play one that would ONLY walk on the path, never cut the corners over the grass, and he totally reminded me of that rigid character flaw.

[@DRourkey]

This movie was such a good adaptation of what seemed like a real campaign I bought a physical copy. I have less than 10 movies that I liked enough to get a physical copy.

[@pernicious8523]

Theming it with thieves in the title, was a gargantuan mistake, as that points back to the previous flop.

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

Can't remember what movie I went to watch, then the D&D trailer popped up before it started, and remember rolling my eyes constantly at it (thought it was marvel-like garbage), my partner knowing my love for the franchise asked me if I wanted to watch it and I said "this looks like shit, so nope". Because of some positive reviewers on YT talking about it so well, I bought it off Amazon in 4K, watched it, loved it. It is criminal how badly marketed this movie is/was.

[@Lycaon1765]

It was a great movie, I'm sad i didn't get to see it in theaters because I avoided due to the damn OGL nonsense. I want SO BAD to support this brand, but hasbro and WotC management just keeo ruining it.

[@destroso]

It was a good fantasy movie, I enjoyed it. My favorite D&D movie is Conan the Destroyer. For those not aware, the Robert E Howard pulp books were the main inspiration for the fantasy addition to war games which inspired D&D.

[@micahlbrown]

At 2:13 the names of the directors are over the wrong person. I also really liked this movie.

[@micahlbrown]

I don't say this to just nitpick someone's editing, but I think John Francis Daley deserves so much credit for how good this movie turned out. I've liked him ever since he was a child actor in Freaks and Geeks playing one of the titular geeks. He's been a nerd for so long that I think it helped him understand D&D in a way that most filmmakers don't.

[@dorianr4770]

I adore this movie. I just rewatched it a couple days ago. I think it will add to my roster of movies I rewatch over and over again. it makes me feel good. not without some nitpicks or things I think could be improved, but I adore it. and I want more.

[@rsienicki]

Hands down my favourite movie of last year. Low key, suprisingly funny, and very very fun. I needed exactly this. I even bought the prequel novels (and they were also pretty fun). I keep coming back to this movie. This and "Baldur's Gate 3" shows there is a lot of good things to be done with D&D. Sadly we will have to wait a long time for anything more.

[@rehmanmir7865]

A big D&D group I was in at the time the movie came out all got together to dress up very formally (sports coats, nice dresses, and suits & ties) to go see this movie. It did not disappoint, super sad it didn’t do too well

[@PresidentMystry]

As a diehard D&D fan, and forever DM, I was extremely excited for this film when the first trailer dropped. My immediate thoughts were, “This film is going to suck, but it is going to be so much fun.” The attention to detail from the trailers made me seriously see how much care was put into the design and references to the game. So I really wanted to see it, despite thinking it would probably not be a great film. I just thought it would be a fun flick to see. The OGL happened and I didn’t care enough about it to not watch the film. While I was angry with WOTC and I told myself I would not purchase their books or releases, but this movie was different. It wasn’t made by WOTC like those books are. So I chose to watch it with a fellow forever DM friend of mine. We were like children the entire film pointing out stuff we recognize from the game and we talked after the film about what spells or affects or abilities were used in different scenes. It was so much fun. And additionally we were both shocked at how good of a film it actually was, we loved the story and thought it was great. It definitely exceeded both our expectations, and was really enjoyable. We were both really sad to see the film flop and were both disappointed at that fact, knowing that a sequel is unlikely because of it. It’s more heartbreaking knowing that this film definitely does not deserve to flop

[@yurisei6732]

Diehard D&D fan who didn't care about the OGL scandal enough to not rationalise away your desire to give hasbro money? D&D will die hard if this is what counts as a fan.

[@nathancjarrett]

The movie was fun. I took my family to see it and we had fun. I watched it again later at home and we still liked it. Maybe it's not a perfect rendering of D&D lore, but that's not what I cared about. I've always thought Hugh Grant was a complete tool, so having him as the villain was enjoyable too.

[@Butterb0ne]

It "flopped" because it was released the same weekend as John Wick 4 during the slowest movie month of the year.

[@ethancastillo9221]

I watched this movie with a friend who hasn’t played dnd and it was fun to watch him have the same reactions I did to the monsters the first time I saw them

[@rwulf]

I gotta be the dissenting voice here. Yes, this was the best D&D movie ever made, but that's not exactly a high bar, is it? There were a lot of good, solid jokes in the movie but it was just as frequently cringey or lame because it often felt like it just could not commit to the bit. Entire characters, such as the druid, served no purpose in the story and had no personality. The tone was just all over the place, with concurrent scenes feeling like they were from entirely different movies. It felt like it really wanted to BE a D&D movie, but it somehow lacked the confidence to do so, making it a movie so milquetoast that it pleased neither a hardcore fan nor a newcomer. It should have looked more to its obvious inspiration, the Princess Bride, as an example of how to integrate a serious story with absolute goofiness. This was OK at best.

[@giraffegiraffe8702]

These days I only go to the theatre maybe once or twice a year. For 2023 it was John Wick 4 and D&D. And this movie changed my life - literally. I started playing D&D again. 😃

[@btafbm]

genuinely top 3 best movie of 2023

[@michelleelliot2068]

honestly I loved this movie and it did not deserve to fail as it was really very good. This has future cult classic written all over it. I was a film critic and I correctly called out multiple underappreciated movies that were reappraised later as being far better than were received at the time. I have every confidence that this movie will be reappraised in the same way. Also, I really love your videos, I can see this channel blowing up and I can't wait to see it happen for you.

[@shallendor]

Having the directors say that they were going to Emasculate the men in the movie also turned people off!

[@Hewylewis]

So glad this movie is getting a second wind through streaming numbers.

[@NathanS__]

I think the boycott was really a non factor. It was just a terribly placed released date.

[@NevisYsbryd]

I doubt it. Most of the public's familiarity with D&D is limited to a couple of faux-nerdy pop-culture references (Big Bang Theory, Stranger Things) and Satanic Panic rhetoric. D&D is carried _hard_ by its dedicated fanbase. Said fanbase saying it looks bad, let alone boycotting it over scandals that made mainstream news, is terrible word of mouth.

[@NathanS__]

@@NevisYsbrydyou're overestimating how many of the fanbase participated in the boycott. The majority of people who play dnd would not have participated in the boycott in the first place. The film made 200 million in the box office, that's from regular people hearing the good word of mouth but there being too much competition and it hitting streaming in 30 days after release

[@LinaFootpad]

I've been playing D&D since the 90s and I absolutely boycotted this movie in response to WotC's OGL license shenanigans.

[@drjohnwooberg]

@@NevisYsbryd When the marketing blitz was underway for the movie, you suddenly had the likes of NPR and the Wall Street Journal talking about D&D. But they weren’t covering the movie, they were picking up the OGL story. I think that wasn’t just a factor in the movie bombing, but probably a big part of why they backpedaled hard and fast on the OGL.

[@NevisYsbryd]

@@drjohnwooberg Very possible. That film was a keystone part of their strategy to break into the mainstream/mainstream gaming market as an IP. The timing for the OGL changes and ONED&D walled garden plans had pretty much the worst timing possible. Had they been smarter and waited to implement the subscription model crap a few more years (once it became normalized across the entire economy, as it is already headed towards), they would have been almost guaranteed to succeed.

[@toyotatacoma1616]

Honor Among Thieves is a perfect example of a movie that I’m just happy exists, regardless of whether or not it was profitable enough to make a sequel. Between BG3 and HAT, 2023 felt like a really good year for massive, large scale interpretations of Faerun.

[@tzgaming207]

I tried watching this movie but bailed somewhere around 20-30 minutes in because I literally could not care about any of the characters. I also thought it was going to be more serious in tone & found the humor grating & corny. The production looked great but everything about the characters came off to me as generic & cookie cutter 😕

[@guttedxx]

As a non-DnD fan, i loved the movie. It really did have the perfect balance of everything. I wish i could have seen that world expanded on even more.

[@fast1nakus]

Vapid, plastic, hollow. Designed to be liked by everyone but loved by no one. dulled down Taika humour. Guy Ritchie-esk heist scene but on valium. the actors are one step away from winking at the camera. Perfectly average schlock with waay too high budget.

[@MethosJK9]

Correction: the revised OGL threshold was going to be $750 *thousand* dollars in annual revenue, not million, and that's revenue, not profit.

[@hawkname1234]

It would have affected about 3-5 companies that based their products entirely on WotC's work. It would have affected basically no small creators.

[@MethosJK9]

@@hawkname1234 not the point, and since it was revenue and not profit it would have affected many more than you think, not just Critical Role but Ghostfire Gaming, Kobold Press, Paizo, Goodman Games, MCDM, and many others.

[@damaskosc]

No it didn't. It was hoakey.

[@ninjakat26]

I went and saw this movie opening weekend with a bunch of my friends who I play D&D with. We all absolutely loved the movie because it captured a D&D campaign so well. It really is a shame that it didn’t do better meaning that we aren’t likely to see another one (which isn’t needed but would be a lot of fun.)

[@sloganwade4994]

The movie was just so bland and generic, I couldn't even finish it. It very much felt like a film made by committee to me.

[@Chronor3]

Are you a fan of dnd? Cause if not it wasn’t made for yoy

[@sloganwade4994]

@@Chronor3 Yes, I DM every other Tuesday. Doesn't make the movie any less bland imo.

[@kickupgamer]

My GF who doesn’t even like Fantasy absolutely loves this movie. She even bought it when it came out. It’s one of my favorite movies of all time. So good! Definitely deserved better.

[@EmpereurNapoleonex]

This was one of the movies I had low expectations because I wasn't sure how DnD was gonna be adapted, but dang it was a fun movie

[@patricklapinski1526]

I'm not a fan of critical role but I think the vox machine animated show was a much better representation of dungeons and dragons. I think the movie targeting the broadest audience with a kid friendly atmosphere was a huge mistake

[@mAcroFaze]

I watched this film with no real knowledge of Dungeons and Dragons (and only began playing Baldur's Gate 3 about a month ago (and loving it!)), but have played my fair share of videogames in general, this film was genuinely just a really good time!

[@christophermactaggart243]

I like this movie and watch it every so often again 👍

[@anyaaa2801]

Another great underrated movie 💚

[@SkepticalCaveman]

The reason it didn't sell enough tickets was because it was released between John Wick and the Mario movie. If they had posponed the release a few months then it would have done better.

[@lennardchurch8483]

A few months later would have been better, but not for that reason. The reason it didn't do well was because of the mass boycotts of WotC/Hasbro products due to the companies' despicable conduct towards the fans. Giving it more time would have allowed more people's anger to run its course, so fewer people would have decided to not watch it in protest to WotC/Hasbro.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

@@lennardchurch8483 Nah, it's not the fans, but the mainstream audience that pay for more than 90% of ticket sales. The Mario movie was extremely successful and was released shortly after. The D&D movie had no chance to compete. I watched it with only 4 other people in my cinema. Granted, movie watching is not very popular in my country and neither is D&D.

[@vos_is_boss7623]

This movie was fantastic, and I want more!

[@5.56NATOdreams]

I personally love the movie, and when I saw the party of adventurers from the 80s DnD cartoon in the area it was very nostalgic

[@Lordbananathegreat]

This movie is so underrated. I’m glad to see someone finally talking about this.

[@samflood5631]

It's a damn shame this movie did poorly at the box office. It had a way better story, cast of characters and CGI than the 2000 Dungeons and Dragons movie. Plus Honor Among Thieves was a lot more faithful to the source material than the 2000 Dungeons and Dragons Movie and Dragonlance Animated Movie.

[@Cheerwine091]

The fact that my only issue with this movie is that Chris Pine’s character is portrayed as a Bard when he plays more like a Rogue with proficiency in an instrument (aka a pedantic nitpick that nobody should rightly care about) speaks volumes to how good of a film it is.

[@lennardchurch8483]

I thought that too, but then it was explained to me that bardic magic is subtle, and through the movie he's dishing out loads of Bardic Inspiration, casting Charm Person, and other such subtle effects, showing how Bards are able to wield their charms without drawing attention to it, which would have immediately have gotten them assailed for magical manipulation of people's minds.

[@AsapBlanco12]

I feel like more people would have seen it if it released after bg3. Maybe a few months after the official release. At that point the dungeons and dragons universe had reached so many people that more people would've shown up for it

[@filipvadas7602]

I have no trouble believing that this movie will slowly become a cult classic as time goes on. A gem that's underappreciated at the time of its release, but eventually gets the recognition it deserves

[@yurisei6732]

Nah, Hasbro won't let that happen. One whisper that people actually kind of liked it and they'll milk it and its fans for every last penny, until they're all sick of hearing its name.

[@tortoisesoup16]

I had to watch it on a plane because it was not released in Japan (most movies get released in Japan very late, like 6 months after their release in the U.S.) and by the time I returned to my home country it was not airing in theatres anymore, so I watched it on the plane back. Wish I could've seen it at theatres though, it was a really fun movie.

[@bombdiggaty8795]

I didn't even know it flopped i thought it was great