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In Defense of Malenia | Elden Ring Lore & Theory

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A Human Justicar

A Human Justicar

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 145
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to post a reminder! This is just my opinion on the arguments presented in the article. This is not a critique on anyone as a human being or their personal beliefs, simply me pointing out contradictions or weak arguments created by the author. I am a woman and so is the author. Please keep your comments kind and civil. Thanks!
@MrElmoMeTickle
@MrElmoMeTickle 2 жыл бұрын
They literally just hit the the main female characters, didn't explore the world at all to meet people like Ranni and Sellen or find out more of Marika's story, and then think that encompasses every female in the game. I am just guessing the author really didn't play as much of the game as they led us to believe. :shrug:
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not convinced the author played the game at all, tbh. Sounds like they did the bare minimum of research just to get the sequence of events right and that's it.
@MrElmoMeTickle
@MrElmoMeTickle 2 жыл бұрын
@@AHumanJusticar I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but you are probably right LOL Also, it's Polygon Opinion which has gotten caught before posting absolutely terrible and false stories.
@christianpena707
@christianpena707 2 жыл бұрын
It's a shame people miss out on a character as great as Malenia due to simply not investigating the in game items that reference her and the characters associated with her. She has an amazing story and piecing it together little by little is the WHOLE appeal to meeting her. She's a living legend in the game and once you finally meet her you find that she more than lives up to her reputation. It's kind of like seeing Santa at the mall as a kid, except he impales you on a katana then turns into an ACTUAL GOD. Wild shit, 10/10 character.
@mp5skd
@mp5skd 2 жыл бұрын
Quiet help-meets or predictable obstacles can also be applied to literally any male NPC in any Fromsoft game as well.... Of course that's how NPCs are, you either help them or you are enemies, otherwise you would never interact with each other. Even Patches, one of the single most interesting characters in Fromsoft lore, can be reduced to "predictable obstacle".
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
This! ^ In a world full of war and turmoil, if there were people who didn't help or hinder you, you'd never see them! xD
@A_Bad_Redman1
@A_Bad_Redman1 2 жыл бұрын
As a man I can tell you gender competitiveness wasn't even on my mind when facing Malenia, she was just another obstacle to overcome to beat the game nor did I feel the game was trying to challenge my masculinity. Talk about looking for a problem that doesn't exist at all.
@Kal-qn9rw
@Kal-qn9rw 2 жыл бұрын
They never ever took in to account that you can play as a female character too. So how do they figure it if your playing as a female character fighting Melania
@DrNinbos
@DrNinbos 2 жыл бұрын
In my opinion, a good female character is a good character that happens to be female. In my experience most characters that focus around the character's gender are very one-dimensional and rarely good. I also find the notion of Malenia being defined by her gender simply ludicrous. I can not think of a single thing that would change about her, if her gender was switched to male, if we consequently switch her children to male and Gowry to female (maybe also Miquella to female, it seemed to be intended for them to be of opposite gender). The character would stay just as badass, their backstory just as tragic and the fight would still be just as tough and awesome. When I died fighting her over and over, not once did I, as a man, even consider it more or less embarrassing due to her gender ... Thanks to you for this great video and thanks to FromSoft for their amazing characters.
@Rageikari
@Rageikari 2 жыл бұрын
Great video as always and tbh I'd love to see more opinion pieces from you that don't need a divisive polygon article.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@jamesocallaghan2699
@jamesocallaghan2699 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Your videos are always super well presented and thought provoking. Excellent script and VO as well!
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
@joelpace2039
@joelpace2039 2 жыл бұрын
Another interesting note about Malenia's transformation is that, as we learn from Milicent's quest, the transformation is not intentional and is usually caused by a major betrayal. Makes me wonder what could have happened during the fight to cause Malenia to transform.
@macnamaryb7773
@macnamaryb7773 2 жыл бұрын
As far as I can tell, the transformation is caused by her dying, and Malenia literally impaled herself to force the Scarlet Aoenia (you can see her blood run down her sword during the Trailer Battle after she jumps onto Radahn). So Malenia cheating was absolutely intentional as far as I can tell, because I highly doubt as skilled a swordswoman as she would accidentally impale herself. This all ties together into Malenias general vibe of refusing to be inferior to anyone, be it Radahn, the Golden Order, or even her own Rot Goddess. As far as I can tell, her reminding the player of who she is is less her telling the player, and more her trying to convince herself that she is still the strongest, that she will find Miquella, that she did defeat Radahn, that she has "never known defeat". But that is where the self deception is: Radahn DID beat her, Millicent explicitly states that Malenia going nuclear was to MATCH Radahn, not to get the upper hand. So everything seen in the battle up to her going nuclear was her losing. Radahn is just casually decimating her (his pose as Malenia reattaches her arm says it all. He does not fear her.), he destroys her arm, and we see that he didn't seem to mind being impaled, whereas Malenia is at the end of her rope. To me this is so much more interesting than the undisputed indomitable swordswoman annihilating the Red Lion General, it shows that even Malenia has limits. It's just those limits are a demigod that can literally halt the stars in place, the actual laws of physics, and a god inside of herself trying to eat it's way out, but she CAN overcome this casual decimation of her, if only in the moment, by holding nothing back. She wins the Battle, Radahn won the duel, and neither of them gained anything for it.
@TheRisky9
@TheRisky9 Жыл бұрын
@@macnamaryb7773 "As far as I can tell, her reminding the player of who she is is less her telling the player, and more her trying to convince herself that she is still the strongest, that she will find Miquella, that she did defeat Radahn, that she has "never known defeat". I like your interpretation. What's interesting about Malenia is that, unlike the other demigods, she doesn't taunt you. Or gloat. Or let her weird children thingies bite your ankle. She just lets her thoughts out and goes to town.
@Carl-vx9ws
@Carl-vx9ws 2 жыл бұрын
Defeating Malenia is also the end result of following Millicent’s questline. After watching your video on Miquella, I wonder if the reason she marched south was because her brother was taken, and she either thought or was led to believe Radahn was responsible. This lends me to believe that she released the Scarlet Aeonia, out of desperation, rather than acquiring Radahn’s shard. ✌🏼🙏🏼
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I'm on the same track my friend! Thinking about make a full deep dive into their battle and the reasoning behind it but it might get controversial haha!
@Carl-vx9ws
@Carl-vx9ws 2 жыл бұрын
@@AHumanJusticar I will eagerly wait for your future post. 👍🏼🙏🏼
@moonligjt5870
@moonligjt5870 2 жыл бұрын
what seems to be the going theory is that malenia was sent down to caelid in order to defeat radahn not to take his shard, but to release his hold of the stars in order for miquella to bring about the eclipse in order to revive the half dead demigods, mainly godwyn, because if she was after great runes she would have godricks because she defeated him, but did spare him seemingly out of pity which would go against her collecting great runes. Her releasing the aeonia seems desperate in any framing other than "she did it to kill radahn and nothing more" but in the cutscene we see her impale herself which makes me think that she may not have been considering her own life in that situation as much as she was focused on getting radahns grip removed. We can't say for sure as we don't know if or how much power to wield the rot as a weapon she had, but given her passing out, possibly until we ourselves get to her which would have been hundreds of years presumably she wasn't fully aware of the extent of her curse (ranni says the shattering happened an age ago in the trailer but, we can't know for sure and eve if it was an age you could argue for it being a couple years I suppose)
@_questdbz
@_questdbz 2 жыл бұрын
I’m pretty sure malenia has to be fatally wounded to release her scarlet bloom. Which is why she falls down almost dead in our fight and why she impales herself on her own sword against Radahn
@_questdbz
@_questdbz 2 жыл бұрын
Malenia doesn’t actually know her brother was taken. She is resting next to where his cocoon once was waiting for him to awaken. However it would seem that the haligtree knights are aware of Miquellas disappearance to some degree as they seem to be looking around in their idle positions. Malenia most likely went to release Radahns hold on the stars above. Poor Radahn
@WaruiDeshou
@WaruiDeshou 2 жыл бұрын
While I think the author brings up some points that are worthy of contemplation, the article never sat well with me. It's smart, but at the same time missing something quite fundamental. I think you've done an excellent job here addressing many important ways the author just missed the mark. This is a valuable contribution to the ongoing discussion! And, since I am a man and that comes with a ton of biases, I really appreciated your perspective here.
@jediron169
@jediron169 2 жыл бұрын
You put it perfectly, the lands between is a broken world that is hostile to everyone, and everyone is just trying to survive.
@ItsARandomEncounter
@ItsARandomEncounter 2 жыл бұрын
I get a real icky fealing that the articles writer had some sort of mindset that went: "I really hate this boss... but she's a woman. Does that make me a mysoginist? No, the game is mysoginist for making hate a boss that is a woman!"
@VoltaDoMar
@VoltaDoMar 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't read the piece but did she even consider the lovely backstory regarding Malenia and Cleanrot Knight Finlay, two women who shared a close bond? I loved their story. I feel like an editor should have looked at this piece and said, nice theory, but is this really supported by the text?
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I adore Finlay(she was in my Top Best Girls!) so the omission was definitely noticed. It would have been nice if the author noticed it but oh well 🤦🏽‍♀️🙄
@joelpace2039
@joelpace2039 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. I really like the different angles you're taking with Elden Ring content.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them!
@CarmeloSantosF
@CarmeloSantosF 2 жыл бұрын
Unaware of the existence of said article, this great video actually helped me clear ideas about Malenia's character. I would also like to add that, from previous beligerant articles by news site Kotaku, in a similar way to Polygon, usually the writer's job for these sites is to put out articles by the numbers, usually clickbaity and controversial in order to get clicks, seeking to attract the views of those who will disagree with said publications. More often than not these articles are contentious, use incomplete data as basis and outright wrong.
@veratrindye7292
@veratrindye7292 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your thoughtful take on this! I don't want to pile on the author (because there's nothing wrong with having their own read on the game's plot), but as someone who adores Malenia the way she's presented in the game, it does bother me how the article seems to start with the most toxic and misogynistic player responses and assume that it's what the devs wanted to invoke. I think that the Soulsborne games have a certain fascination with disfigurement and resolve in the face of overwhelming odds. Many of the strongest characters you meet in these games are disabled in some way: Artorias, Lothric and Lorian, Latenna, those wheelchair grandpas in Blooborne. Sekiro in particular shares a lot of common DNA with Malenia's story: having lost an arm at the start of his game, he goes through his journey learning how to adapt to his body's new reality, ultimately deciding whether to become the remorseless weapon his abuser conditioned him to be ("becoming" his prosthetic, in a fashion), or to reach out to the people who care for him and find the best ending for them. We see a lot of the same dynamic with Malenia: born between two oppressive powers (the Outer God of Rot on the one hand, and the Golden Order on the other), she chose to forge herself an identity wholly free from those things, while helping her brother in his quest to build a better world for the folks who fell through the cracks. I think her story stops short of being "inspiration porn" because we see exactly how destructive it was to the people around her when her willpower frayed and gave in to her ailment (something that I think a lot of people living with chronic illness, especially the mental kinds, can relate to). The game doesn't absolve Malenia of her mistake, but neither does it condemn her as monstrous or irredeemable. "The dignity, the sense of self that allowed her to resist the call of the Scarlet Rot" was real, as her item descriptions tell you on every turn. Just like how the kindness and friendship you shared with Solaire and Lucatiel was real, no matter how doomed the world of Dark Souls is in the end. That something is fleeting and doomed to wither does not make its beauty worth any less. Millicent's questline feels especially poignant to me in that light. The game hints that she's Malenia's best qualities made manifest, and once she figures out who she is, she resolves to return the needle that would allow Malenia to return from the brink and resist the Scarlet Rot once more. It has all the hallmarks of someone staging a mental health intervention to a loved one - and if you believe that Malenia goes back to her nap after the fight, then returning her needle amounts to giving her the meds that would set her back on the path to recovery (or so it appears to me). I don't want to pretend that FromSoft's portrayal of women is free of problematic tropes. Their repeated use of the passive, demure "maiden" archetype can be eyebrow-raising, and I know a lot of people are iffy about how these games portray pregnancy and birth. There's certainly a lot to write about sexist player responses, as well. But these games also have a veritable embarrassment of riches when it comes to strong, interesting and diverse female characters. And I'm really glad that so many people see Malenia for the awe-inspiring character that she is.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this response! I really enjoyed reading it, and I agree so much! There’s tons of valid criticisms but this article didn’t really highlight any of them, to me at least. I’m glad you enjoyed my video!
@deschain1910
@deschain1910 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure I understand how the fight could be designed to be emasculating or how success over her could take on a "masculinized chest-beating" if both the player and player character can be female/feminine... Can someone explain this? I don't understand why the article writer seems to be assuming that the player/player character is masculine...
@pilot3605
@pilot3605 2 жыл бұрын
I read the article after the video, it seems to me that it's a mix of frustration with all these female characters needing the players' ( who can also be, both irl and with the character they control, women themselves) help, which is simply the nature of the game being an rpg, and Malenia being somewhat villainous.....although to me she's like someone who did bad things with a noble goal in mind, she's more gray than anything
@hektik2200
@hektik2200 2 жыл бұрын
You perfectly expounded upon exactly what I thought when I read the article. The author was heavily projecting their own misogyny and displaying their lack of actual experience with the title itself
@austinroguelike
@austinroguelike 2 жыл бұрын
This was a great video! I totally agree with you on most points, and I think you stayed respectful to the author of the article while presenting a different perspective. I’d love to see more videos like this from your channel in the future!
@bplus2625
@bplus2625 2 жыл бұрын
"When faced with a difficult, defiant woman who has never been beaten, men cannot help but fantasize about being the one to take her down. (Or at least be in the room when it happens.)" The overly simplistic male stereotypes and generalizations of men made by the author of this article makes her come across as a misandrist. I'm all for feminism and calling out misogyny but it seems like she has a deep hatred of men.
@Anublet90
@Anublet90 2 жыл бұрын
Whelp, if this article was intended to get a rise out of me, it succeeded. This just doesn't sound like it's written in good faith at all, no matter how generously I try to interpret it.
@jake_
@jake_ 2 жыл бұрын
The very fact that it is so difficult to fully understand the motives and behavior of almost all the characters in the game, not only makes it so much more interesting, but proves that they do not follow the various tropes and stereotypes. The whole Polygon article seems to be just a click-bait .
@IgnisPhoenix
@IgnisPhoenix 2 жыл бұрын
Scarlet Rot was a really cool concept in general in the game. She's a badass extension of that to me.
@BiZkWiK87
@BiZkWiK87 2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you weighed in on this issue. My only guess is that the article was written to manufacture controversy for clicks. Thanks for speaking up!
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching!
@aberrantart88
@aberrantart88 2 жыл бұрын
1000% agree. I was very frustrated with how the author of that Polygon article willfully misrepresented the nuance of the female characters in Elden Ring. Thank you for your perspective and great videos!
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for watching!
@hicham171
@hicham171 2 жыл бұрын
Ppl who write this articles don't care about the argument it self ,they just want you to admit that there is an argument in first place .
@tehpwnr1504
@tehpwnr1504 2 жыл бұрын
I feel like it’s just a trope now that fromsoft makes their hardest bosses a female and that’s fine with me
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I’m cool with that! 🤘🏼
@varden506
@varden506 2 жыл бұрын
The article came off as incredibly…suspicious.It seemed as if it was solely intended to be incendiary. If you’re able to play through ER and wind up with the belief that the female characters are anything other than badass and complex, that speaks entirely to your own hang ups and insecurities. Not the intention of the designers. Excellent analysis as always!
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
It broke my heart the way Millicent was reduced to “Malenia’s clone” in the article. 💔 Thanks so much for watching! 😁
@eldorphoto
@eldorphoto 2 жыл бұрын
First time here and you have a new sub. Thank you for this video, enjoyable and documented. /bow
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and welcome! (:
@IamSnehan
@IamSnehan 2 жыл бұрын
Malenia doesn't need any rescuing You're goddamn right! Wait... where's my Mimic? OH SHI- (dies)
@TheRisky9
@TheRisky9 Жыл бұрын
Oh no a boss is viewed as something to be beaten?! What the heck else are bosses there for? The fact she's a woman has nothing to do with it. And your observation that Malenia is not defiant towards the player is spot on. That can't be said of the male bosses, Mogot, Mogh, Radahn, Reikard, or Godrick. All of those bosses gloat, they call you "foul tarnished", they want to eat you, or they don't say anything and just lob things at you. Malenia is very polite to you, despite the fact that you just broke into her home, killed the residents that her brother worked to protect, and interrupted her sleep. While what she says is open for interpretation, I see it as her saying, "If you're looking for my brother, he's not here. I'm his blade, so you better brace yourself." On top of it, as a sword woman myself, she actually fights you pretty fairly as the Blade of Miquella. It's you who has to cheat. Now, when she becomes the goddess of rot, that's another story. But when she is herself, she is using proper sword etiquette.
@hellspawn22001
@hellspawn22001 2 жыл бұрын
I think some of the motives behind articles like this is when people don’t see gender as an important component to someone’s character. The fact that to 99% of Elden ring’s players don’t care that Melania is female enrages those who view gender as the be all end all. If the author spent five seconds with the actual community they would know way more people hate the Godskin duo (dudes) and the Elden beast (amorphous blob). I do kind of wonder why Melania didn’t go after her brother. I mean she could turn Mohg into a sticky red paste, I understand from a game perspective (you would lose two bosses in a game that has a fair amount of repetition). Lore wise I don’t know if there is a reason she stayed.
@Austib_
@Austib_ 2 жыл бұрын
This definitely feels like the type of article created for outrage clicks rather than a genuine concern for in-depth and dynamic female characters.
@Austib_
@Austib_ 2 жыл бұрын
I will say though, I remember scrolling through the hashtags on twitter and seeing a reaction to Malenia that was both uniquely vitriolic and vaguely sexist. Nothing explicit, but it seems there was a bit of sexism perhaps subconsciously under the surface.
@FelisImpurrator
@FelisImpurrator 2 жыл бұрын
@@Austib_ Well, like the article... That's literally just people projecting their nonsense onto an excellent character.
@masterofsorrow2699
@masterofsorrow2699 2 жыл бұрын
I've played this game together with my girlfriend(a woman, yes). Neither of us found anything sexist sexual or any related to sex and gender. Male and female characters feel all the same - as characters. They have their own story, struggles, goals, motivations. There is no reason to think differrentely about a boss because of their gender. The two of us knew we had to beat Malenia even before starting the game. BECAUSE SHE IS DIFFICULT. She possesses a great challenge to all players, which is the primary reason gamers want to beat her. It has never been about gender. There's no place for misoginy in games. Stop it.
@sir-dame-sander
@sir-dame-sander 11 ай бұрын
re: the “daughter” (because really, they never specified exactly what the four sisters are) thing. elden ring is about familial ties and close bonds, whether they be by blood or not. it’s about the idea that everything is connected, in one way or another, no matter how desperately one may wish to deny it. almost every character has some sort of child, sibling, ancestor, etc that’s relevant to their story. I don’t see how the plotline with malenia’s offshoots (who, by the way, she doesn’t even know about) is any different than, say, radahn’s realtionship his stepfather godfrey, or miquella’s almost parental sort of caring for the erdtree’s blasphemers, or D’s identity struggle regarding his twin brother. all of them are deeply intimate interpersonal stories, regardless of gender
@sir-dame-sander
@sir-dame-sander 11 ай бұрын
this was the only claim I think is even worth addressing to be fully honest. so many of the other ones lead me to believe the author hasn’t only not played elden ring, but seemingly hasn’t played any other fromsoft game either. for example lady maria follows NONE of the conventions that are laid out in the article and she’s bloodborne’s most iconic boss
@Captnjared
@Captnjared 2 жыл бұрын
super accurate. the article about malenia was a really long way of the author telling everyone that they are a problematic human and don't understand good charchters or nuance. and you help make nepheli loux a goddamn queen so they really don't understand anything about elden rings characters
@ajackass5950
@ajackass5950 2 жыл бұрын
games journalism is an industry of smooth brains frfr
@zedwords
@zedwords 2 жыл бұрын
This is actually the first response that I've seen to the Polygon article, and I'm so glad that you addressed a lot of my issues with it. One other point I'd like to touch on is that Deyo seems to be looking at a very narrow segment of the fanbase. Although there's definitely a dudely component to the group, I can't think of any other action game series that's attracted as queer and nonbinary a fandom. There are lots of reasons for that, like the fact that almost all of the games give the player an option to explicitly trans their gender, and I wish more of those perspectives had been included.
@sashadiaz9716
@sashadiaz9716 2 жыл бұрын
I still can’t believe that article wasn’t satire. I feel like so many points the author makes, or tries to make, are clear evidences that the author didn’t play the game. I feel like it’s clear as day how awesome and inspiring Malenia was. And sure I wanted to defeat her, because I died to her at least 200 times, because she’s a difficult boss to defeat. I wanted to beat all the bosses so why would I be misogynistic for wanting to beat Malenia too :(
@Kosmos_er
@Kosmos_er 2 жыл бұрын
Amazingly put all around
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@elijahherstal776
@elijahherstal776 Жыл бұрын
>Implying anyone from Polygon is capable of making enough progress in a FromSoft game to encounter other characters
@agopessimist1335
@agopessimist1335 2 жыл бұрын
It is so hard for me to feel any sympathy for the author or Polygon when this is the kind of lazy writing they have been pushing out for years now. It feels like they specifically wrote this article for the sole sake of outrage views, even more so since they covered a highly popular game like Elden Ring. You pointed out all the flaws in the article perfectly, and it seems incredibly clear that the author either didn't play the same game as the rest of us, or they chose to ignore everything the game presented just to express their own biased opinion. The only female character I had any issue with was Melina, but only because of the scarcity of information surrounding her and nothing to do with her character traits, personality, or role in the story. And this is an issue that can be easily addressed in a DLC. Every other character in the game, male or female, was written very well, and the most mysterious and important person in the game IS a female: Queen Marika. Without her the story of Elden Ring and our journey as Tarnished wouldn't be possible. How could the author miss something as simple as this? I just wish that Polygon wouldn't resort to pushing out baseless articles like this just to get attention. There are hundreds of amazing things they could write about, or valid points of criticism they could address about the game, but this article was clearly written with one specific opinion in mind and nothing else.
@Sinhsseax
@Sinhsseax 2 жыл бұрын
I am not sure how to feel about Melina being so scarcely covered by the game. Isn't it quite interesting that most of the information we ever get from her is Marikas words retold? There may be a place for a mysterious figure like Melina, who shapes the world, but never fully reveals her intentions or backstory. Considering we got helped so much by a stranger, who seemed to have a lot of power and knowledge makes me think that as Elden Lord, we might just be a pawn or tool for a greater goal, which we cannot grasp. But on the other hand, if Melinas story was expanded in a DLC, I would welcome it, because I am interested in that. Either way, I would want her to be involved in some way, to at least comment on DLC happenings.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I totally agree. The article was obviously clickbait or written with the intention to completely ignore the lore, which does a disservice to both the dedicated fanbase and the writers. Thanks so much for watching! (:
@pastorofmuppets4552
@pastorofmuppets4552 2 жыл бұрын
Malenia doesn’t even have “daughters” in the literal sense, and she is a rather masculine woman, which makes sense as her parents are each androgynous.
@Maxbeedo2
@Maxbeedo2 2 жыл бұрын
Articles like that get written a lot, and it basically boils down to "Take popular franchise, find any part that agrees with insane theories and ignore the parts that don't, and write an article that will piss people off because that gets more views and clicks than actually good ones." Honestly the women in Elden Ring are far more interesting and fleshed out than the men, overall, but as you mentioned a lot of the arguments they listed applied to everyone equally. "It's always about motherhood", well what about Radagon? Or Godfrey? Or Edgar? Look at how Godfrey cradles Morgott's body. Look at how Edgar despaired over his daughter's death and the rampage he goes on. The cast is too diverse and complex to group them all together.
@thederpside7123
@thederpside7123 2 жыл бұрын
I feel like nobody really touches upon the assumption in polygon’s article that all of FromSoftware’s game design choices are made with a strictly male player base in mind… a female player is even less likely to pick up on whatever subconscious misogynistic message polygon thinks From is pushing.
@dirmusloner7963
@dirmusloner7963 10 ай бұрын
Malenia is a masterpiece of the boss along with other main bosses. We are trespassing her territory and meet us in battle and hit us with all she has in her arsenal. Also in the story we see that Malenia not only stood against Radahn and lived to tell the story about it but as Ranni stated in the cinematic in the fight between Malenia and Radahn there was no victor, that means Radahn and Malenia have a reputation to live upon.
@coldsteelblue7275
@coldsteelblue7275 2 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure that the article was written as pure clickbait, because the woman writing it clearly had no idea what she wanted & contracted herself several times, only to stir up anger. I found Melania to be one hell of a tough fight & she turned me into paste more times than I want to count, but I never viewed the fight in a misogynistic way & my relief at winning was just that, relief at winning, sweaty palms & increased heart rate to boot, as it was an intense experience. Lastly, how can the fight be designed to emasculate the player, when the player has the option to play as either gender??? This article shows just why western game journalism should be ignored Just to say one additional thing, that footage of your fight vs Melania was good, I'd not thought about using dragon incantations while she was blooming, you had great timing on your dodges too Thanks for the vid
@c_y_a_9081
@c_y_a_9081 2 жыл бұрын
Godfrey/hoarah loux. I’m surprised no one has written an article on him about unrealistic body types for men. Like what are you talking about it’s a game and that man is 12 ft tall and can cause earthquakes with his left foot.
@samueltitone5683
@samueltitone5683 2 жыл бұрын
Are you saying you aren’t 12 ft tall and can’t cause earthquakes with your left foot?
@c_y_a_9081
@c_y_a_9081 2 жыл бұрын
@@samueltitone5683yes 😔
@Tommy9834
@Tommy9834 2 жыл бұрын
So Polygon's main issue with Melania was, she's not a Mary Sue.
@grilledeel6042
@grilledeel6042 2 жыл бұрын
Gender competitiveness? Toxicity? Dude all I know is Malenia is the Blade of Miquella.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
😂
@odst522
@odst522 2 жыл бұрын
i love your channel i love this video i love Malenia
@Augs_Cable
@Augs_Cable 2 жыл бұрын
Technically Malena did need Rescuing by Finlay who took her all the way back to the Haligtree but doesn’t really disprove your point. Not like they looked that deep into the lore themselves lol
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I meant more she didn't need rescuing from us, the player. Also, Finlay is another badass woman so it reeeally disproves the authors point!
@Gillerz100
@Gillerz100 2 жыл бұрын
it seems like the author argued with themselves more than raising a legitimate issue
@hazemelhusseiny5683
@hazemelhusseiny5683 2 жыл бұрын
I don't really think such an article even deserve an analysis or even a reply, it's just a side effect of the crazy world we live in right now, and isn't anything more than clickbait for the mind and soul. Ffs people are we really discussing the role of women in a game that features a woman as an eternal goddess queen? Who conquered the world and beat all other gods including a fucking giant fire god? Who split herself in half and just formed a perfect man and sent him off to marry another woman to achieve world peace? Are people really this soulless? That they can write something like this and actually convince themselves that they're doing anything other than being radical extremists trying to find a cause?
@TooManySteamGames
@TooManySteamGames 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this. Polygon often misses the mark.
@nathanmagnuson2589
@nathanmagnuson2589 2 жыл бұрын
That article in particular just seems like an excuse for the author to complain about perceived sexism lmao
@deschain1910
@deschain1910 2 жыл бұрын
Re: Motherhood being important to the story Yes, this is very important. Procreation (and the stagnation of procreation in the current age of the Lands Between) and lineage is a recurring theme that is played with in different ways throughout the game. Not only is this fitting for the setting (in which kings and queens and lineage are respected), and related to the alchemical themes and the Rebis (embodied by Queen Marika), but also I think meant to reference the modern day issue of Japan's falling birth rates. Obviously, the games have very little relation to reality, but I always felt that Miyazaki's games tap into an anxiety that many "modern" civilizations are existing as just the fading embers of what they once were. The anxiety that all civilizations fall eventually, as far as we know, even if we were living in ones that were magically endowed with greatness. Honestly, I think it would have been more "problematic" if Malenia had been portrayed as barren. If the "masculine" sword maiden were too diseased to have children, or if she was too committed to protecting a man to have any time to have "offshoots", I think that would play as more offensive personally.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
100% agree!
@ryantate1200
@ryantate1200 Жыл бұрын
I loved every point you made in this video! That article was just some ploy to garner negative attention at From Software in my opinion
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar Жыл бұрын
Totally agree!
@dr_regularlove
@dr_regularlove 2 жыл бұрын
Great counterpoints all around. Honestly I think articles like this more often than not are written to generate social media discourse and therefore clicks and ad revenue, rather than from a desire to further an honest critique of games and other media from a feminist or any other perspective. And it's not even just the author's fault, as I imagine to some extent they are bound by management's criteria and deadlines in such a way to direct their output in this direction. That aside, when I heard the phrase "erupting into a shrieking, horrifying hysteria" in reference to an Elden Ring boss fight, the first demigod I thought of wasn't Malenia at all, but Godrick. Even before learning more about his background, I remember thinking how pathetic and mewling he came across, desperate to prove his worth to his betters, as he grafts the dragon's head onto his arm. Kudos to the voice actor for that pitch-perfect portrayal.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I thought the same! Godrick's scream was intense but also kind of funny, I remember laughing the first time and immediately getting killed.
@goldenbough6563
@goldenbough6563 2 жыл бұрын
Well done. That article was terrible. As someone with a background in English Lit., I've encountered this kind of clumsy and biased deconstruction way too many times and the worst thing about it is its self-involved predictability. When a journalist like this says a certain game has a 'woman' problem, it often strikes me like the opening salvo in a protection racket. Put her on payroll and your troubles might just go away.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Haha 😂 thanks so much for watching, glad you enjoyed it!
@lachouette_et_le_phoque
@lachouette_et_le_phoque 7 ай бұрын
It really sounds like the author was just looking for any way to be offended by the game and went with that. I've actually shown the fight and cutscenes with Malenia to a friend because I thought it was a great example of showing a strong woman and female nudity that does not feel sexualised. She's so terrifying that it didn't even occur to me for the longest time that her fight literally features butterflies and flowers! She's naked for the second half of the fight but her body isn't massively idealised, she's scarred and while she's beautiful, there's something off about it, and the wings straight up look gnarly. If you look up fanart of Malenia, they tend to make her waist smaller and make her look more "streamlined", elegant and stereotypically beautiful, which IMO defeats the entire point of her character model. You just know that if she wasn't a strong fight partner, the author of the article would have lamented how apparently women can't be excellent fighters or whatever. You just can't win :D
@sir-dame-sander
@sir-dame-sander 11 ай бұрын
“everyone you meet is either a helper or an enemy” no shit, it’s a post-apocalypse. those are the types of interactions you have with people in a post-apocalypse. if you met a character n all they did was stand there they’d have no narrative significance n be an at best mildly confusing, at worst immersion-shattering addition to the story. in this genre, anybody who isn’t a helper or an enemy is just set dressing. it’d be like asking for a whole game about the people nailed to crosses in limgrave who don’t do anything except scream at night
@slenderman_proxy8741
@slenderman_proxy8741 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, I've seen other reactions to the article and this is my favorite for now but... Rahdan will always be the true winner of that battle 😔🙏
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@MadAtreides1
@MadAtreides1 Жыл бұрын
I suspect that, had Malenia been a male, the character would have been as reviled as Sulivan from DS3. Infecting 1/4 of the land because she couldn't win a fight put her out of my sympathy immediately. She's better than Ranni though, I feel I can give her that.
@misminjirplays8910
@misminjirplays8910 Жыл бұрын
I'm so happy to have a woman say these things. As a man, I would just sound like another guy gamer, so this was refreshing. 😊 you're awesome 👌 👏
@Tatertotsareamazing
@Tatertotsareamazing 2 жыл бұрын
The article also fails to mention all the female npc summons for bosses from the other fromsoft games
@lordaloa
@lordaloa 2 жыл бұрын
Good video! I was thinking it aswel it seemed to me the writer missed the point of feminism entirely.
@cataclysmicacedia824
@cataclysmicacedia824 2 жыл бұрын
While your other points stand strong. I find it very weird how readily people seem to dismiss or maybe just never saw how the more hardcore Radahn stans where being very blatantly and openly misogynistic for several months. The article had many things wrong I concede, but the statement some men saw conquering her as some sort of male ego stroking object is true. That's not an unfair statement, even now some of the earliest fan artists who drew her can recall how their comments sections would get infested with fans who came to bash Malenia specifically. I've seen more people openly mischaracterized and outright reduce Malenia to a villain then Rykard or Mogh, all while reducing Radahn. A mysterious and nuanced character in of himself into just a big fatherly guy that loved his horse that got cheap shot. And not an adherent for the golden order, the system that alienated four of his siblings. The article needed a lot of work but addressing that many fans or at least vocal minority openly didn't like her because she is a girl is true.
@Sinhsseax
@Sinhsseax 2 жыл бұрын
Radahn stans are like Abyss Watcher fanboys (who are ironically just fanboys of Artorias fanboys). The mechanics of his fight are as unique as those of the Abyss Watchers and their self sacrifice mirrors similar heroic traits Radahn displays. I would not read too much into it. Radahn is a fan favourite and Malenias difficulty creates a lot of bad blood against her. The fact that they fought each other, immediately makes it into a two sided issue as well. I like both of them, but I can take only so many "did you know, that Radahn learned gravity magic because of his horse" and "Radahn is clearly stronger than Malenia and the nuke was cheap" comments. There is a lot more to the two of them (negative and positive) than what popular opinions suggests, but this is what apparently stuck. Part of that is the unjust demonisation of Malenia. And people express their dislike of her character differently. There will always be those, who will be edgy about it. Some mean it, some don't mean it. I don't know about there being misogyny specifically and even if, I would care less about that than the character assassination.
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
I don't doubt that at all because of course I saw it. Not as often as others, but it definitely was there. I think the issue I took more so was the framing of this being something intentionally done by the developers. Sorry, I should have clarified that more. People will be misogynistic over anything and everything frankly, some people just suck(especially chadbros in the gaming community). I just didn't like the way the author seemed to make this about the cinematic trailer and the developers 'planting this mindset' into their fans conspiracy. I personally like both characters and imo Malenia's boss battle is way cooler. Thanks for watching!
@daniellaschaening4470
@daniellaschaening4470 Жыл бұрын
thank you for this. this person sounded like she just looked at the game with an agenda in mind and its a shame because I actually find this game one of the most feminist works of art that I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Because feminism and women's empowerment didn't even come across as the intention, the women were simply just complex, full fledged characters the same way that men often get to appreciate through out the majority of works without it even batting an eye. And as a woman who struggles with chronic illness and invisible disability and a male dominated field, Malenya was pretty much everything I needed to see. She's become almost an unofficial patron goddess for me XD. I do think there are a lot of gamer bros who miss the point, when it comes to her battle with Radahn though, claiming that she cheated or what not and painting him as the hero and her as the villain. I genuinely love both of those characters and love their battle. Painting one as good and one as bad seems to undermine the complexity of both, and causes a lot of the art behind it to be lost.
@LuciaLaVA
@LuciaLaVA 2 жыл бұрын
The way you worded your takes on the article really just tore down the article's undertones of toxic and fragile masculinity and frankly sexism toward both sides
@sir-dame-sander
@sir-dame-sander 11 ай бұрын
saying this as a former woman, current “eh, whatever” - I am SO fucking sick of the performative “feminist” take that men are always constantly trying to prove themselves “better” than women no matter what. men aren’t a monolith in the exact same way that women aren’t, I think the assumption that every man is secretly a scary beast who only wants to hurt women says a lot more about the person who’s making that claim than it ever will about any unrelated man. this sort of accusatory divisiveness over nothing only ever makes life miserable for everybody even remotely involved
@brucelston
@brucelston 2 жыл бұрын
lol I just read the cringeworthy article. Believe me, Yes I hate malenia but it had absolutely nothing to do with her gender. It was more so about obvious powercreep FromSoft has been doing ever since Dks2 and now it's out of control also annoying weeb anime way she fights which I know it's a japanese game (but I still hate it and why I never played Sekiro) when I did finally beat her I wasn't happy compared to when I finally beat Gael in DKS3 which I enjoyed much more because even though his difficulty was also high the small window you have to to react wasn't too tight and you still had some feel of control of the battle field. With her, there was none. You had to rely on her patterns to know which different direction to roll in each of her swings all while she can heal even if you block. where as with gael you really had to roll one way and shield was still reliable. I Also hate about her is that she may be precursor of what's to be considered more common in later games if she is infact the new plateau of power creep. (Forgive my grammar)
@sageofspice2431
@sageofspice2431 2 жыл бұрын
Never really looked at Malenia as a woman, she's just a super strong and skilled warrior you could gender swap her and it wouldn't even change her character much; people who obsess over genders and representation really miss out on the story and souls of characters.
@XeroFailGames
@XeroFailGames Жыл бұрын
Writer played the game and projected their abusive spouse onto Melania lol
@christianlowman2698
@christianlowman2698 2 жыл бұрын
I miss game articles that were actually informative on the game's they were writing about and not some silly ill informed article that seems to only exist for hate clicks
@sir-dame-sander
@sir-dame-sander 11 ай бұрын
you’re right, the language in the article is ABSOLUTELY misogynistic. most women who talk like this (with the exception of people with very serious trauma) hate themselves a at least a little and are trying to avoid confronting that fact. they’ve absolutely been wronged by patriarchal society, but instead of confronting the larger issue they direct that anger onto random men and, more importantly, other women who aren’t being women “the right way”. also 99% of the time they’re horrible to trans people, I know this one from personal experience. so that’s fun
@sir-dame-sander
@sir-dame-sander 11 ай бұрын
ok commenting over I just had A Lot of thoughts. godawful media literacy going on with this article :(
@sriramguhaprasad4421
@sriramguhaprasad4421 2 жыл бұрын
What polygon got wrong? 3 words, "Hiring that moron " (that wrote the article). I thought the "Ocarina of Time was a gay coming out story" was the dumbest a game journo can get...
@AHumanJusticar
@AHumanJusticar 2 жыл бұрын
😭
@alrightletsgo5715
@alrightletsgo5715 2 жыл бұрын
polygon showing us all once again, you really dont need any talent or skill to be a games jouralist 💜
@nathanmagnuson2589
@nathanmagnuson2589 2 жыл бұрын
that polygon article is honestly a bit braindead.
@pepticheese3265
@pepticheese3265 7 ай бұрын
We love the author complaining about motherhood themes when one of the corr recurring atmospheric themes is birth and death and how that was altered by the presence of the erdtree. Bro just has no idea how deap and complex this game and story is bro see's themes and is like sexism when fromsoft is definitely one of the best game devs for having strong females. Smh
@Cold_Zero_The_Wise
@Cold_Zero_The_Wise 2 жыл бұрын
Men are genetically/physically stronger than women it's a fact and malenia has rot and amputation and inspite of all this was the strongest thtough sheer skill alone she made herself the equal of the other demigods I see nothing to feel about when fighting her and when I win I feel good cause I beat the strong.
@chaos8362
@chaos8362 2 жыл бұрын
Meh she wasn't stronger than Radahn just nuked him with her plot device in straight up skill and battle prowess she was not the strongest
@Cold_Zero_The_Wise
@Cold_Zero_The_Wise 2 жыл бұрын
@@chaos8362 I disagree power wise I back radhan but skill wise malenia had to make up for her shortcomings wit skill especially since she didn't want to realy on rot
@chaos8362
@chaos8362 2 жыл бұрын
@@Cold_Zero_The_Wise whos more skillfull though the one with nothing to hold them back in the fight or the person literally holding all the stars in the sky still while still winning in single combat against said great skill I feel Radahn was robbed of what was rightfully his the title of Elden Lord and for what to bolster her brother who she let get kidnapped and did nothing but sleep since some parts of elden ring are just silly
@jonnymario771
@jonnymario771 2 жыл бұрын
Game journos need to stop writing crap and more important, they need to touch grace.
@nick.reuper
@nick.reuper 2 жыл бұрын
Is Polygon even worth replying to?
@jakdexter2075
@jakdexter2075 2 жыл бұрын
Polygon is just a shell once woke.
@sofiee8531
@sofiee8531 2 жыл бұрын
It’s funny, I actually thought this article was written by a man and thought it actually depicted his own problems with women… huh…
@FRAGIL
@FRAGIL 2 жыл бұрын
TLDR: "critique" a characters agency and contradictions, with a self-contradicting agenda. Snore...
@FelisImpurrator
@FelisImpurrator 2 жыл бұрын
Frankly, Polygon articles mostly got a lot better after a while, but this feels like a poorly written throwback to the era that got the site its reputation as a source of cheap outrage bait. This is 2010s Tumblr Feminism(tm)... and frankly, no different whatsoever from the average right-wing culture war nonsense about trans people. Which, incidentally, is a subject FromSoftware has been infinitely more progressive - and impressively good at handling for their time - since literally Dark Souls 1 at least: Transness, or more generally the depiction of gender outside of binary normativity. Remember that Dark Souls begins by gently reminding the player that gender and age have no impact on ability. And that, I think, is an attitude that defines FromSoftware's view of gender roles and age in narrative as well. I've never heard of Gwyndolin being treated with anything other than respect and dignity, for instance. But in Elden Ring in particular - it is quite notable that Miquella, the one unfought demigod, is explicitly and canonically genderfluid. He (or she, in the form of St. Trina) is also, more importantly, one of the most cunning and formidable beings in the entire Lands Between - perhaps the most intelligent of the demigods. Miquella/Trina is treated as worthy of the utmost respect and awe even as a background character - capable of formulating a plan to defy fate and seek rebirth without Rennala's rune, capable of forging the one item in all of creation able to tame the all-consuming Frenzied Flame. And not one second is spent on some ridiculous transphobic stereotype. (Marika, of course, is also noted to have had the same trait, being Radagon.) Now, onto the article proper and its opinions of women in Elden Ring... The author has clearly not exchanged more than a few scant lines of dialogue with Ranni. I don't believe it's possible to finish that quest line without being made keenly aware of the depth of her character and the strength of her motivations. She has arguably more of an arc even than any other character in the game, and I think that's a larger influence on her popularity than the meme of "haha space wife hot". Ranni has determination and intelligence that are practically second to none - even Gideon Ofnir the so-called All-Knowing seems to be utterly unable to fathom her plans. She was willing to die to escape the clutches of fate and forge a newer, freer future for the Lands Between. She was so committed to protecting those she loved that she tried to dissuade everyone, including you, from aiding her in her quest. And on top of that, she's so monstrously powerful that she's the only character in the game who can kill you instantly regardless of level (if you dare to try to take advantage of her as Seluvis suggests), and essentially made the entire second half of the Rennala boss fight - a magical construct so potent it can emulate the sheer power of a true demigod, at vast ranges away from its caster, after an untold amount of time. Ranni is phenomenally written (especially so in the original Japanese lines) and one of the most compelling characters in the series. As for Malenia... Malenia is also a fantastic character, and a fantastic antagonist. Even I, someone with auditory processing disorder (that is to say, I struggle to understand subtler cues in spoken language and tone, or focus on multiple spoken conversations), can't help but hear what the VA put in great effort to convey in her voice: Not flat emotionlessness, but crushing, ancient weariness from a lifetime of fighting and pain. When you face her, she is bitterly tired and in excruciating agony, but she faces you anyway with all the determination of the greatest warrior in the Lands Between. All that time, she treats you with the utmost respect, warrior to warrior, because she doesn't look down on you in the slightest - you, who have fought through an onslaught of peerless soldiers and countless other dangers. She clearly treats you as the one being who may be her equal - the only one who can bring her rest from her eternal torment by the Scarlet Rot. Miquella is gone, spirited away to Mohg's temple of blood, and the Haligtree's purpose can no longer be fulfilled - but at the very least, she seems to think you deserve a duel for the ages, with nothing held back. All throughout, there's a subtle impression that she treats the battle itself as a sort of duty, but a worthy one. Not some pathetic slaughter of sheep or an extermination of some foul creature. It's as noble a battle as anything can be in the corrupted, twisted, utterly broken Lands Between. Also, and this is interesting... Even naked, she is far from hypersexualized. Her body is perfectly sculpted, yes, but not as a sex symbol - as the purest expression of what she is. The ultimate warrior. There is little body fat on her, giving her an androgynous appearance (interesting, considering her brother is Miquella...), but she doesn't look like a model; she looks like a demigod who has spent her entire life fighting. She has a healthy, robust figure, not that of a skinny supermodel. More refined than Hoarah Loux's gigantic wall of muscle, but that only fits her fighting style as an agile, katana-wielding combatant - she is raw power and elegance, and she is your ultimate opponent. Certainly, there's a fair bit of (very nontraditional) sex appeal to be had if you look for it, but that has nothing to do with the intent the design conveys or the tone the battle is meant to have. This isn't even getting into the cut content where she was meant to be an ally for a certain period of time, and you were meant to enter dreams through Miquella's power, before finally being forced into a confrontation with Malenia. Nothing about that sounded the least bit like some "quiet helpmeet" in the cut lines. Frankly, women have the lion's share of agency in the Lands Between... and that's in spite of the Outer Gods wishing it otherwise. The Fingers seem to demand that their Maidens be subservient and self-sacrificial. These prominent women in the narrative - including Marika, who seemingly orchestrated this whole scheme to spite the Greater Will despite being its most powerful vessel - are all defined, story-wise, by having said "No." Even Melina and Millicent seize the initiative away from the gods, seeking primarily to sacrifice on their own terms, not to meekly serve some deity's will. This is a subversion of the damsel narrative. Not an endorsement of it as is.
@hypernova5203
@hypernova5203 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly just feels like one of those woke articles. They just want a bunch of she-hulk(the recent episodes, not comics) like characters(aka very shallow female characters who can do everything right without trying much, always super successful and strong, oh, and throw in some "toxic men" for them to out do aswell...)
@idkidonthaveaname4034
@idkidonthaveaname4034 2 жыл бұрын
man i live watching a smack down of a woke internet person, great vid :D
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