In Depth Tutorials: The Double-Threat Killbox | RimWorld (BioTech, 1.4)

How to beat a 10,000 point raid. Cheap.
Francis John's famous killbox: • Rimworld : Killbox gui...
Adam Versus Everything's turret trick: • RimWorld Guide: Pathin...

[@BearPlaysGames_]

I had never considered using the tox traps on the raiders clumped up at the entrance due to collision. I immediately tried it out and... My current save is in endgame, making final prep for ship launch and wealth management is no longer REALLY that much of a concern. Any raid that comes our way gets decimated in the killbox. But just two or three those tox traps can end raids before they ever really begin. I had 2 raids of over 200 raiders each just... break as they stood outside the killbox. Plenty of survivors, including some VERY useful pawns and even some very generous organ donors.

[@VenomSteak]

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. End the battle before it even really begins. Plus, you get the pick of the litter after.

[@wargamer2190]

A cheaper alternative that I discovered in one of my medieval playthroughs i made a simple killbox in which the outer frame is made of steel but the inner maze is made out of wood walls. The raiders then go in the maze and set the walls on fire. The door can be held open while still keeping all of the heat in for some reason. Then put some barricades and such to slow them down. What I found interesting is that most raiders didnt even come for my pawns at the exit of the killbox. They just sat there setting all the wood walls on fire and cooking themselves alive. Then all you do is rebuild the wood walls and you good.

[@VenomSteak]

???? Yeah that is some very interesting behavior. Sounds like it works though.

[@PunkDogCreations]

​@@VenomSteakPlease don't use God's name in vain.

[@jhn4399]

light doesnt effect pawn shooting accuracy, it only gives mood and if you set raiders on fire they can move through your melee pawns and attack you from behind / disrupt your shooters.

[@Ryckhart]

I'd love to see more on how you build a base, your structures always look so neat and orderly

[@VenomSteak]

My bases are generally just 11x11 rooms with 3 or 5 wide hallways in-between. I've been experimenting with circles and diamonds lately, though. If you really want a good base, there's really only two main rules to follow: 1. Make enough space 2. Good workflow 1 is pretty self-explanatory, 2 just means kitchens should be close to freezers, factories close to warehouses, etc. You follow those two rules and you'll do great.

[@Dagroth]

Why do you need wide hallways? I always made them one tile wide and they seemed to work just fine. (but maybe I don't know something)

[@VenomSteak]

@@Dagroth pawns pushing past each other slow down. 3 wide allows you to setup internal defenses, while 5 wide allows things like storage/defense/trees.

[@Doomguard60]

Back with a long video that's informative and awesome! Great work Venom, always appreciate a new video from you! And of course the "Or else" threat gets me every single time

[@VenomSteak]

Here's a question. How would you feel about story videos? I've written out some BioTech stuff. Also a story about hillbillies versus exploding zombies.

[@Doomguard60]

Story videos I would love! Sounds amazing. Chance for longer videos by you is always welcome! Hillbillies versus exploding zombies sounds about as crazy and chaotic as possible and I'm all for it haha

[@andrewj6611]

@@VenomSteak any play throughs in future?

[@VenomSteak]

@@andrewj6611 definitely.

[@0The_Farlander0]

Always love seeing new compact defense stuff. Even just learning I could set up a spike trap maze with a corridor running through the center completely elevated my RimWorld experience when I learned about it, and now I have this to try when I get a more established colony

[@VenomSteak]

Try away my friend. I'm always happy to share some Rim-knowledge. And hey, I'm thinking about doing a video about alternative defenses sometime. You know, stuff like warg armies or mechanoid setups.

[@t_gabiuel6058]

I like this killbox that you designed, it's pretty cheap and effective but the burn box is simply a better version of it. The burn box does everything this killbox does but better and without needing to reset traps or commiting colonists for the defense at a higher cost and space. This killbox is more useful in situations where you dont have a lot of space, which I belive is the whole point of the killbox. I love the quality of the video btw.

[@VenomSteak]

Thank you. Yeah I don't like the burnboxed because sometimes, you get burned (pun intended). This kill box take a little more maintenance, but it's more than made up for by salvage. It's main advantage is that it offers automated defense; most humanoid raids are NOT going to make it through the maze, let alone in good shape. Basically, if it takes you a minute to get everyone sorted, this thing's got you covered and it does it for the absolute minimum space needed. But yeah, bigger killboxes _can_ offer bigger defenses, for sure.

[@davidmorrow3005]

even with no roof, that 5x5 room with my pawns still get super hot and im not sure how to avoid that

[@VenomSteak]

Hm... that did not happen in vanilla rimworld. Possibly they've added the feature in a more recent update or it's a mod. I tested this specific issue months ago so I know for a fact we can narrow it down to those two choices.

[@nomad_1997]

It's a good killbox, but one problem I noticed is that my pawns get cooked alive, even with the roof ventilation. Bear in mind they're mid-game pawns without marine armor or some good heat resistent clothing. The kill room is often at 200 degrees, so I'm not sure if clothing would help. 7 of my pawns all got burnt pretty bad.

[@VenomSteak]

Two things that might be going on here: 1. Ty & Co made some changes to the game since this video 2. Yours isn't build quite like mine. This killbox definitely worked at the time. We know because you can see, my pawns aren't getting cooked. Any room that isn't roofed at all _should_ just be the ambient temperature (outside), and never heat up/cool down. If Tynan and them changed something, well, this killbox will need an update! Easiest way to fix this issue without breaking the whole thing down is to just remove the back door to the main room. That will make it count as "outside" and make it impossible to heat up/cool down. Just make sure no one is standing in the doorways, since those count as tiny rooms.

[@nomad_1997]

@@VenomSteak Hello and thank you for the quick response. Yes, my solution was to remove even further roofing and improve ventilation, the killbox room roof is "Unroofed (10)" which probably means it's missing 10 tiles, if I'm not correct that should be the two sides of the main kill room unroofed, yet the temperture goes up. Maybe I'm missing a kept-open door to limit the temp from leaking too hard into the main room? that could be a good addition to keep the temp in the maze but not affect the defenders EDIT looks like exactly what's missing, it seems you have a kept open door right before the last fence right before the turn into the kill room, that is what I missed. I'll see later on if it made a big enough difference. It's the one right below the bait-turret

[@danielp1810]

Your videos are such a great balance of step by step, rationale and yet to the point. I'm using this killbox now, it's a lot of fun.

[@rickyjarreau8619]

I removed ceiling and still got over heated in box!

[@VenomSteak]

Hmm... this design was working just fine for me. Are all your doors setup the same? 30%+ of your roof gone? If that's true, then yours should work, just the same as mine. Otherwise, it could be an issue with mods OR (and this is the least likely) something to do with your game version.

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

i would have probably put toxtraps in the free places bethween the doors for that heavy gas debuff while on fire, the additional tox build up is just a bonus. i mean since even a malfunction does not really do harm when they go out quickly there is no problem exept for some fuel and steel. thats a really nice and compact killbox thats even early game friendly and with 2-3 minebots or now ghouls its probably nearly inpenetrable.

[@VenomSteak]

I built this one to last. No exploits, no cheats, just combining the best of the game's mechanics. PS I now want to make a Tunneler melee horde...

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

@@VenomSteak i now integrated this into my toxbox meatgrinder killbox, needs optimization since accidental tiggers of the incendiary mines are a pain in the .... but the downing rate of even anomaly creatures is borderline criminal.

[@BumpyLumpy1]

cool to see you make some more long-form content. very good video dude!

[@VenomSteak]

This is sort of a goodbye to tutorials, for now. I'll still make them, but I'm going to start trying story content!

[@BumpyLumpy1]

@@VenomSteak nice

[@matheusbee3441]

Let me tell you something... 1. Place chairs for the colonists behind the wall. 2. place a pawn adjacent to them 3.profit

[@VenomSteak]

We could... it's just so cheesy! RimWorld is cheesy!

[@sirreetweedledoo925]

you know i just realize, i could just layer this into different defenses that i can fall back to.

[@VenomSteak]

Yep. Takes a lot of the edge off of raids.

[@mbohlin01]

Dumb question: The fire based KB, how much equipment or items do you lose due to the fire? Is it only certain types? How do you put out the fire safely after the battle? Thanks

[@VenomSteak]

Right, on cleanup: 1. How much equipment do you lose: depends. You definitely lose some, but a lot of it ends up dropping outside the structure once the spaces fill up. In bigger raids, it can be an unGodly amount. 2. Is it only certain types: most items are flammable (in vanilla). 3. How do you safely put out the fire: I usually let it burn and replace it. This box is so compact, it's not a _huge_ hassle to fix up, especially for a late-game colony. However- if you want to put it out safely, approach it from the *outside* and *deconstruct* a single wall to let all the heat out. Rimworld has a funky mechanic where an unsealed room *instantly* becomes the outside temperature. Once you've done that, you can safely put out the fire. *Firefoam Pop-Packs* work wonders here. Finally- you can use the paramedic Mechanoid. Impervious to heat and can put out fires with foam. Last note: it's usually easier to just have mutiple of these killboxes (so at least 1 is always ready). If it were me, I'd let the 1st box finish burning (free cleaning!), shut the doors on it, then prep the doors on my 2nd box. Rotation/redundancy are just a good idea in general in this game.

[@mbohlin01]

@@VenomSteak Hugely helpful. Thank you for your time.

[@diegoav413]

a mechinator can probably use this and keep the room super heated as mechs don't die of heat or fire making your friendly mechs some sort of literal hellguard that and it lets you use more tox gas since mechs don't need to breathe making their killing floor an automated slaughterhouse

[@VenomSteak]

freaking awesome, I might have to cover that.

[@yalkn2073]

Why not just use flamebows or molotovs for the fire? 40 steel, 20 chemfuel per ied is not cheap

[@VenomSteak]

Close but you got the numbers backwards, it's 20 steel and 40 chemfuel per trap. We use them here because it's a lot less risky than sending your people out there, and it's always ready in case your pawns aren't. Besides. When the raids are big enough to justify this level of defense, just think: enough metal salvage and organic material are coming in that you can replace all your traps and then some.

[@lynnphipps4455]

Always happy to see one of these!

[@thanhhaitran9422]

I tried exact set-up but their raider sometime can take cover on their right side 3:49 . Any fix ?

[@VenomSteak]

Not sure, there's been a few updates since this video was made. My best recommendation is to 1) beef up the tox gas before they get there, and 2) put something flammable on that corner. Make it difficult for them to stay there.

[@stephenkaye8537]

This is well designed. Great stuff!

[@VenomSteak]

Thank you, I always appreciate some appreciation. Stay tuned for upcoming zombieland content.

[@amongrabmore8239]

@Venom Steak Pls dont take this as an offence and pls excuse my bad english, but is this not just a really inefficient burnbox? I see it as a really cool design and as others said, I like the tox traps at the start, but its not usefull against mechs (and they are the most Dangerous for most players). A similar desing would be "adam vs everythings" shotgun tunnel. My point with the "inefficient burnbox" you can do the same "against organic enemys" but you would only need a longer maze and a guy with a incediary launcher or molotov cocktails... so i rly like the design it looks great but calling it an upgrade when it's a mix out of burnbox and killbox is wrong I think. But you did a great job explaining the design and it is rly compact for a hybrid wich if i understood you corect this is. Thanks for the great content and have a nice day. Ps. yes i know a lot chnaged in these 11 month in game.

[@VenomSteak]

1. Yeah, you called it. I've been away for a while and this has changed a lot. 2. Think of it like "extra." Your end-game killbox will probably be bigger and badder, but _this_ one is cheaper and still very effective (against bio) 3. That's not Adam's killbox (the Singularity), it actually comes from a Chinese web forum. He just brought it to the West XD 4. The Devs _apparently_ "fixed" the Singularity killbox so that it's just not as good anymore. 5. _This_ is the most important part: There are a lot of better ways to play this game than using killboxes. Last colony I built I barely even bothered with traps. The most important thing is to know how to fight, as opposed to becoming overly reliant on "perfect," no-damage defenses. Something in this game will always come out of the woodwork and destroy your best-laid plans, which is why I'd say being flexible and clever is actually more important than having a nice killbox. But hey. It's a game. Play it for enjoyment, not for someone else's idea of how it should be played.

[@VenomSteak]

P.S. - "inefficient" is relative. Yes, you use traps here, but like 100 steel and some chemfuel should NOT be a major expense for a late-game colony, unless you're playing on Sea-Ice.

[@amongrabmore8239]

@@VenomSteak for point 3 i didnt mean the "Singularity" I meant his normal shotgun tunnel but its probably not his design as well. I often use Killboxes but I never depend on them I for one part play it mosty vanilla and Low shield packs and casters with good collonist can fight nearly evrything. Against big Pirat raids (drop pod or snappers" i like to shock or insanity lance them because i trade a lot and have good amount of them. or have an invisible caster berserk pulse.... but that need a highe level end game caster. So yeah i dont think on 200%-500% you need a killbox but you should have, as you said, as many back up plans as possible and your disinge does that i use Adams mini kill box as a back up. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXvXemWtrtNnoc0 I tested your kill box and it works fine, has some problems after they changed that you allways hit the object but not pawns in the "no frendly fire " range. But so does Adams

[@pkassies]

FJ = godking of Rimworld. Wow!

[@bobnewkirk7003]

Stacking hurdles is a pretty common approach in real life to solve problems, it makes sense that it works in the game too. My only critique of this design is that the game heavily weights mech raids towards endgame making the entire tunnel section an expensive waste. Perhaps, rather than a full duplicate just building a short maze opposite the burn box and switching for mech raids would make for a less expensive solution. Personally I really like the "shotgun tunnel" from AVE and miniaturizing it to 7 pawns is really effective at cutting down Friendly Fire on your frontline. The open roof solves one problem, and then the tox mines solve the other on organic raids. My only adds would be to put some repair pawns to the left and right of the melee blockers for keeping the walls topped up, putting some statues in to counter the negative room decor and making sure the box backs up to a dining room to avoid the dreaded "Ate without a Table" debuff. well done otherwise.

[@SkipPyP00S]

This is a decent killbox, but there is nothing better than a burn killbox. Here you have 7 guys drafted while the raid is ON, you also need to rebuild IEDs all the time. Now compare this to a burn killbox where you spend only 30-40 wood every raid and you need only 1 guy with a molotov to ignite it. Every other pawn keeps working while raiders cook inside, there is no rebuilding needed, only replacing wood (which is cheap). A burn killbox solves all your problems with human raiders. Now what I don't get is why you showed a mech raid in the beginning and gave an alternative but never showed how it performs against mechs. After you unlock the burn box in your own skilltree as a rimworld player, you come to the conclusion that the only real threat are the mechs. (Drop raids and breach raids are another story) So all you have to prepare for are mechs. Humans aren't a threat anymore. What I am trying to say is that the real test for a killbox is - how does it perform against mechs? because you always can burn humans easily. It's silly and counterproductive to not build a burn box for humans. After you build it all that remains are mechs... and ofc breach raids and drop raids, but as we know that's another story.

[@VenomSteak]

Burnboxes are alright, they're just not automated like this one is. Most enemies aren't going to make it through the traps, not toxers or imps not no one. What I like about this one is it pays for itself in terms of salvage anyways. Now, mechs are your real issue. But they don't need to be. At some future date, given the SE wind hits the right note across the wind vane near 12AM on a Sunday night AND I feel like doing it, I will make a guide showcasing how to fight WITHOUT a killbox. There are SO many ways to take out mechs, some of them render even the worst 10,000 point raids laughably easy. The trick is just knowing how to counter them. Spoiler alert: a lot of it comes down to jumppacks and marine armor.

[@SkipPyP00S]

@@VenomSteak I feel you, Mercury is hella in retrograde nowadays

[@VenomSteak]

@@SkipPyP00S Tbh I'm just trying to get through school and not stress about well all the silly things us humans are doing instead of making the world a nicer place to live

[@No-vq1iv]

Have these survived 1.5?

[@skipius]

This is definitely not the best killbox out there. There is a kill box made by a Chinese that is currently the best one. It uses some weird mechanics that your pawns can shoot whilst the intruder cannot shoot at your pawns.

[@VenomSteak]

You're talking about the singularity killbox. I've seen it, tested it, this killbox worked better. With the Singularity, my pawns took significant damage. Everyone survived, but compare that to the 15 damage a 10k raid did to my pawns here. The main advantage of the Singularity is that it has no moving parts, no re-arm. Only repairs. Ultimately, it's your choice on which you use. Personally, I'm going to branch out and start trying things that aren't killboxes!

[@nevanbroderick4227]

@@VenomSteak Singularity is a tedious setup, especially compared to this one, but I will give it credit. When you have two singularities firing on all cylinders, and you're rotating pawns between the two, it is stupidly efficient. However, I've found that it breaks(raider pathing) quite easily with some mods, and thus renders it moot. This box here seems to work no matter what I have installed, and doesn't take much of your focus to keep going. Kudos for the find!

[@VenomSteak]

@@nevanbroderick4227 I appreciate that, glad it's working out for you. I designed this thing to be as straightforward as possible. However complex your mod lists get, minefields and chokepoints are always a solid defense. Good luck to your colonies, friend.

[@stormraven8484]

Nice video I think I might borrow a few thing in this to my own base def

[@missiah]

Blueprint please 🙏

[@sleepyhollow9762]

I love this but unfortunately in the Combat Extended mod, friendly fire is a bigger killer than the raiders if you're not careful sometimes so this won't work in my game hahah. As someone that's never really used IED's though, I actually really like the idea of stacking multiple types to ruin peoples day.

[@VenomSteak]

Oh yeah, I've never used CE. I imagine you can't really get away with the whole "firing over the shoulder" thing. But the trap-stacks, man. They are such an underrated defense. You can bring down an organic raid before they even get to you with enough of them. One thing I didn't mention: don't hesitate to use a lot of traps. A lot of times, you get back what you put in in the form of smeltables and... meat.

[@gorionus9812]

if you are using pawnmorpher, add insult to injury by swaping half incindiery mines for mutagenic ones. this melts raids fast... Do you have any good designs against mechanoids?

[@VenomSteak]

Yeah actually. My approach to mechs is a little different, as I don't tend to use killboxes. I like to use heavily armored units equipped with jumppacks and assault rifles. Gives them good damage and the ability to reposition at a moment's notice. You can also use sniper rifles if you really want to keep them at a distance. It also helps to have a melee colonist with locust armor/shield-belt to draw fire. This leaves your ranged units free to focus fire whatever is targeting them. Speaking of, focus fire is your friend. Engage one target at a time to reduce the amount of incoming damage. Finally, use emp nades/mines/mortars. Mortars are my fav because they have a huge AOE and can be fired safely from afar. They can easily stun massive portions of a mech raid, leaving you free to focus fire them one by one. If you really want to use static defense against them, I'd recommend something called the signularity killbox. It's an invention pulled from like the Chinese version of reddit, re-posted by a guy called AdamVsEverything. It'll let you kill mechs with very little chance of retaliation. It's a bit of a complicated setup, but very effective.

[@petersantos6395]

Another thing i use is roof trap. Put 1 wooden column with 2 explosive traps nearby, build maximum roof area around the column. So when the trap triggers it destroys the column and collapes the roof, if its near your kill box entrance it can hurt a lot of enemies

[@Ratlegion]

True, but if you're using fire, that will just let the heat out.

[@danielp1810]

I had a thought while watching your videos and I'm not sure I'm not too lazy to test it, but it could be great... Do auto doors that are powered down with a switch and forced open, close if we turn the power on and remove forced open? Seems like a really fun way to build a fire box for raiders to walk into. . auto doors on either end.. wait for raiders to enter.. flip the switch to close the doors and power it it on, let them hit the flame trap and watch as the room of people burn.

[@VenomSteak]

You know, I've never tried that. Might be fun XD

[@deilusi]

to me honest, after fire maze, a room that traps heat as well would be nice, if its long enough you make sure you down most of the raid with heatstrokes. I feel like only problem is antigrain. you have no nice way to prioritize kills. I would add mele steplader somewhere, maybe in corners of the maze, to give it even more power.

[@VenomSteak]

My goal was to keep this killbox as simple and small as possible. It is modular tho, so if you wanted more power you could just add another section onto the maze. At that point, there is just no way a raid is getting through there before breaking. I know because I've tried XD

[@michaeltumminelli308]

how do you put out the fires afterwards?

[@VenomSteak]

2 ways I like to. 1. Let them burn out, forbid your colonists from going there with zones. 2. Firefoam pop-packs. Pop off and you're good to go. Bonus: use the fire extinguisher from the vanilla expanded weapons mod (I think).

[@BauN3RD]

Most underrated rimtuber in existence. Just tested this in a modded game with armored walls made of steel and all I can say is: aaaaahaahahahaha, look at them burn. Next thing I will try is to combine it with the singularity killbox. Make losing is fun fun again. It s pretty costly, though.

[@VenomSteak]

I appreciate that, I really do. I'm glad you tested it, always good to see for yourself. Btw, I use a version of this killbox in my Randy LIF playthrough so yeah. It'll get you through.

[@marcpaulus6291]

The reason why your turrets only sometimes destack the raider is because they are powered! Only unpowered turrets work to destack, you could also use a animal or pawn.

[@VenomSteak]

Huh. I think that's actually getting patched out btw.

[@YuvalGrossbergoxiral]

Wouldn't the turrets need to be unpowered?

[@Chaos3000and3]

Love this killbox showcase!

[@Tamizushi]

The main improvement I'd make would be to stick two pawns with good construction on both side of your melee blockers so they can repair the walls diagonally.

[@VenomSteak]

You could even stick more shooters there. Up to you!

[@alpacabloom1545]

10m VS? Woah.

[@VenomSteak]

Yeah, this little box easily defeats a 10K point raid. Again, the trick is defeating your enemy before they have even a chance to strike you. Come to think of it, I think that is _actual_ Sun Tzu advice.

[@alpacabloom1545]

"Defeat your enemy, before they enter your front door... Randy Random has nothing on these sick tricks, yo." - Sun Tzu. @@VenomSteak

[@kittydaddy2023]

Pairing 2 of these with 2 Singularity kill boxes from AdamVSeverything would be a good way to always have something up. The Singularity just takes time and space because it doesn't use mines or other expendables.

[@VenomSteak]

Trap mazes make sure the enemy won't make it to your gates. In the rare event someone does, well, that's what the Singularity is for.

[@kittydaddy2023]

@@VenomSteak I guess the Singularity is broken now. I don't know, it was always a problem for me. Building with stone takes too long, and plasteel is really expensive for what gets shot up and destroyed. I like this box here because it's still an effective fighting position if you break that back wall and are left with shooting positions and room for 3 melee blockers. That seems to be the best setup. I build your 11x11 rooms with the hallways that leave a ton of those little 3x3 fighting positions all through the base if you have a drop pod raid or something.

[@bugfriendz]

adding an active zone with auto-retaliation on near your killbox will not cause collision, letting you stuff as many colonists into a shooting spot as you so please. just assign them to stay within the zone and they'll attack raiders without needing to be drafted (you may also want to be made aware that a Singularity killbox is cheaper - and probably even safer than having melee-blockers at all).

[@VenomSteak]

In my testing, the singularity killbox led to a lot more damage to my pawns. This killbox trades a few traps in order to keep my people safer, it's also cheaper outright to build. And hey, just think. Traps cost a little steel, chemfuel, labor. You can get all of those things from a good raid. For free.

[@VenomSteak]

P.S. great point on the zoning. I can't believe I've never even considered that before, I bet that would make a wicked melee setup too.

[@bugfriendz]

@@VenomSteak even the best compact setups can only get 9-11 colonists with chairs in a shooting zone, but there is no collision limit in retaliation zones as those pawns aren't drafted. a singularity also works a lot better with this method as actual received damage is a DPS check for enemies running past the first set of doors.

[@VenomSteak]

@@bugfriendz thank you, Bugfriendz. You've breathed new life into my melee-only challenge.

[@batina12431]

This is a really good video man.

[@Dagroth]

I would add a side room(s) for EMP grenades' thrower(s) in case mechanoids show up (especially since fire and toxic gas won't do anything to them) and a side corridor leading to it (like in the killbox in the video's intro). It shouldn't get in the way of making two corridors leading in (like at about 8:59), you would just need to make the leading-in corridor(s) a little longer and to the side (to account for the EMP one).

[@VenomSteak]

Yeah, I was going to do a whole segment on how to deal with mechs, but I decided to cut that for now. Truth is, this is not a great killbox for mechs. Much better to have an open area (as mechs don't take cover on purpose) where you can get a lot of fire down-range + EMP nades. This killbox is cheap and simple enough that it can be its own thing. I'd recommend you make a totally different setup specifically for mechs.

[@Dagroth]

How would you direct the mechs to the other killbox? I mean, sure, the enemies target turrets etc, but I believe they pick their target the moment they start an attack, so at least the raids attacking immediately would go where they please with not many options to redirect them?

[@VenomSteak]

@@Dagroth This killbox has doors at the maze entrance. You'd just close that and the mechs would stop for a moment, then redirect to the next available turret/killbox. I've tested this so I know it works.

[@C-Hirsuta]

I love the idea of putting this behind the Francis John killbox as a second line of defense. It's compact enough to work. The only thing I'd add is that if this killbox is going to be your first line, it might be good to have a secondary or tertiary maze that doesn't have the fire traps. That way when a mech raid rolls up you don't have to waste all of those traps for nothing.

[@VenomSteak]

That's what the doors at the entrances are for. Don't want to use it right now? Just seal it up!

[@Dagroth]

That's good in general, but wouldn't the raids attacking immediately either target walls or go wherever they please (and not where you want them to) in that case? (although I just thought about keeping some powered turrets outside, so the immediately attacking raids would go there, wreck them, and then pick new targets to go where I want them, maybe that'd work)

[@VenomSteak]

Yes to your question. The solution is to have more than one killbox. Once you close one, enemies go to the other. With something cheap and small like this, you really have a lot of options.

[@chrisgopher1439]

Great video, I like your alternative to the already well known kill box methods. Seems like the compact design and multiple doors makes it a lot easier to repair and reset without your pawns having to run the slow path through it themselves to fix walls from doomsdays and grenades setting off when burning. I have also found burn boxes to be super effective at controlling late game human raids. If the path you construct is long enough, you only need one pawn, a molotov, and 25-30 logs of wood to decimate 70-200+ raids with ease and a killbox setup at the end for mechs. The last burnbox made i used the natural caverns in the mountainside on the map to save on marterials, also defends against infestations nicely. Anyways, cheers and thanks for the RimWorld content!

[@VenomSteak]

I hear you on the burnbox. They're the ultimate answer to any organic raid. Mechs on the other hand, firepower+emp is the answer. And a good answer it is! One thing that I've discovered about that: in the current game version, weapons like the LMG get a massive boost against large enemies like the centipede. 2x accuracy, in fact. Now I want to make a video on an anti-mech, LMG killbox XD

[@Dagroth]

@@VenomSteak LMGs only? I think it may be all burst/"spread" weapons, so probably also miniguns and maybe assault rifles?

[@VenomSteak]

@@Dagroth I don't know for sure because I haven't tested it all yet. But I picked LMGs because they hit a sweet spot where they might actually do more damage to larger enemies than an assault rifle or even a minigun. But I can math all day, I won't know for sure until I've tested it.

[@BamsyTheSergal]

you should try this with mods like CAI 5000 >:3

[@VenomSteak]

What's that? Never heard of it.

[@BamsyTheSergal]

it's essentially a killbox killer, adding harder and more smarter ai, and i always wondered if it could still be countered@@VenomSteak

[@C-Hirsuta]

@@BamsyTheSergal Has there been any big patches recently? I was really excited about CAI 5000, but I ended up removing it from my save after I found it made the game easier. Giving enemy pawns self preservation is an amazing idea, but in practice I found that it removed all of their aggression. I was facing raids that seriously outgunned me and should have been a major threat, yet all I had to do was create local superiority. The enemy charges forward a few at a time, takes fire, and retreats having taken damage and accomplished nothing. If they had all massed up and pressed the attack (like they do in vanilla), they would have been far more dangerous. Which was a shame because I really wanted to love it.

[@BamsyTheSergal]

if i remember it's very customizable, and that i paired it with the void faction it was extremely hard to defend@@C-Hirsuta

[@VenomSteak]

@@BamsyTheSergal I might give it a try sometime. There's just so much to do!

[@agecali7893]

Why bother? Just make dual singularity killboxes and you will never take damage. No explosives needed at all

[@VenomSteak]

The singularity has some issues in my testing. Raids were getting through more often than I'd like, as the turret de-stacking doesn't seem as reliable as it once was. Use traps is a cheap way to defeat the enemy _before_ they can get to you. And they pay for themselves; all the salvage from these massive raids is more than enough to replace what you've spent. That's the mentality I take towards raids.

[@agecali7893]

@@VenomSteak I use singularity a lot and it always works to the point I rarely even use my hospital anymore. The first time I made it I had the same problem you are stating tho. You just need to put a turret and door near the first door they step on inside the killbox and possibly another turret outside where they first enter the tunnel. Also you have to build it so your pawns are shooting towards the West direction otherwise there may be complications . Other than that just make sure you use shotguns (and emps of course) and they will never make it to your pawns. Even if they do make it close all you have to do is close the doors and they will turn around and walk back towards the entrance. After they reset reopen the doors. Or just make another identical killbox next to it and migrate to that one. I've used this killbox against raids that consisted of 200 humans and not a single enemy made it halfway thru the box. I've even used this box against mech clusters with apriticon healers and it still never failed. The singularity killbox is so effective and cheap that it's the single solitary reason I stopped playing RimWorld because it made the game too easy. Even on the hardest difficulty. I had colonies of 8 pawns minimum thriving in late game with no problems at all with my wealth floating around 500k-600k. Sadly it just got too easy and boring because of this darn killbox lol the only challenge/fun was the breach raids.

[@agecali7893]

@@VenomSteak did tynan make changes to collision in recent versions? Last I played was 1.4 and the collision inside the singularity killbox was fine. But maybe things have changed since then, I'm not sure.....

[@VenomSteak]

​@@agecali7893unfortunate but yeah. You can even see in my video, two turret sets weren't enough to reliably unstack parts of these raids. However, this setup actually takes advantage of this mechanic. Stacked raiders take damage together, so you end up getting the whole raid over with faster than you would.

[@agecali7893]

@@VenomSteak interesting. I may need to bootup update RimWorld and get my butt kicked soon then. I shall use the tox traps to salvage thy organs lol

[@foremanhaste5464]

The Killbox you are crediting to Francis John is for when you have 16+ pawns that can fight. You are right, it isn't the best, but it is very simple, fairly easy to setup, and tech-less. In your setup I would say that you are using WAY to many IEDs. The damage from the flame IEDs comes from the initial explosion (fairly minimal damage), causing the room too heat up (which auto ignites most things at around 240C), and igniting initial explosion targets (they will already be ignited from the previous.) If you are familiar with Adam's other kill boxes, you might want to take more inspiration from his burn box and skip the flame IEDs and fighting all together. I do however like your inclusion of toxic gas. This could be stepped up a little more by adding an 'auto-bong trap.' Auto-bong will put a smoke leaf cloud over all squares within 4-5 tiles so long as there is a path with no doors to the cells even if there are walls between the bong and the cell. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXTWXmWifrZsp9E at 1:12:07 shows an example. Between a lot lighter application of fire/heatstroke, toxic gas, and some bong haze enemy raiders will be down 50-65% of their consciousness. At 30% they black out so pre-existing conditions or a light application of kinetics will down them. Look forward to your next creation.

[@VenomSteak]

1. Multiple IEDs mean redundancy 2. IEDs pop off even when you're miles away 3. IEDs are cheap AND pay for themselves (lots of scrap after a raid...) 4. You can literally have like ten of these around your base. This killbox isn't perfectly optimized, it's cheap and it's good. You can stick it just about anywhere. It's meant to add a layer of defense, after all. Your _real_ defense against the hells of the rim should be strong pawns and turret/animal spam. You really want to get into the nitty-gritty of colony defense? Maybe I'll get around to posting my anti-killbox video. P.S. don't be afraid to spam mines! They are so strong and I'm shocked by how little I see people using them!

[@chaos8006]

Very nice, may need to incorporate this in my next base as a back up to my FJ inspired usual. Thank you kindly.

[@VenomSteak]

You're very welcome. One thing I didn't mention in the vid, you can always close the doors when you don't want this thing in use! Good luck to you.

[@courier7049]

That's why I play with AI mods so raiders will just laugh at these killboxes and deconstruct the walls near it (as it would be logic to do), especially in big raids the moment raiders "realize" there is a killbox they will avoid going there and trying to dig their way in (raiders don't need sappers to dig walls or mountain, which again is logic), you can only imagine that they don't even care about front door when they have sappers. Is even scarier with CE because any humans/mechs having explosives will just use them to blow up any killbox.

[@VenomSteak]

That's when you pull out the psy-lances

[@TheTSense]

Been playing since 0.16 and I can tell everyone just this: DO NOT BUILD KILLBOXES The game is not made for it and it will ruin it for you. I did it once and I tell you, I rather burn my base down and have the survivors settle down somewhere else than build one again

[@firecopscott]

Randy? Is that you?

[@VenomSteak]

There's a lot of ways to defend your people without killboxes. I just think they're neat.

[@tataeanadream]

Nice killbox that i definitely will try. Wish to see more videos from you on the new dlc too! 🙏

[@viviandrewcilla2244]

I tried using this setup on rimworld console edition (Xbox One S) with incendiary traps, and it immediately got brute forced by a mech raid, all my pawns went down to heat stroke and my save corrupted 🫤 I have the sides of the ceiling removed to vent the heat, but it doesn't seem like it was enough? Any advice on how to keep the heat in the tunnel and out of the box itself?

[@VenomSteak]

Shit... it's been so long since I messed with this build. Best advice is to yet the roof off for now. As long as the room counts as "outdoors" the heat can't hurt you.

[@VenomSteak]

P.S. think it's time to make a video on either a safer kill box or anti-killbox techniques.