In House Vs ETA Movements (The Truth)

[@sportster883able]

Totally agree. I have over 2 dozen so-called 'luxury' watches from Bell and Ross, IWC, Heuer, Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Tudor and Zenith - some In-House and some ETA/Valjoux - some over 20 years old now. Over the years all have proven trouble free and all tell the time as close as I will ever need - although obviously some are chronometers and some are not. But given that these items are now pieces of jewellery rather than a method of accurately determining time (we all have iPhones or whatever we need to do the latter), they need to be seen for what they are - luxury purchases for the enjoyment of the owner in whatever capacity he wishes. In-House, in most instances, doesnt matter a damn unless it offers something so superior to ETA/Sellita/whoever that it becomes a sigificant advantage to the pleasure of owning the watch: in my opinion, for most people, it doesn't.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Thanks for sharing your experience with these pieces, Ian. You honestly sum up my thoughts exactly and it is reassuring to hear that from someone who has been collecting much longer than myself. Thanks for watching.

[@sportster883able]

Hi Teddy. No worries. Just my thoughts chum. Enjoying the content since I subbed. Keep it going

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

More great content to come, Ian. Thanks for the support.

[@sbsb4995]

Ian Gault if you have to see your phone to tell time. Then you are living in the past where people used pocket watches.

[@sportster883able]

Hi Sb Sb......thanks for taking the time to respond. Actually I did not say I have to see my phone to tell the time. If you read again you will see that I was referring to methods of accurately determining time, and not my inate ability or otherwise to tell it from any given gadget. If you read the context then you will see that my argument is that mechanical luxury watches have now been elevated beyond, or perhaps sidelined to, items of jewellery rather than necessary tools, and that the method of telling the time (or indeed determining time) is better achieved by other much more accurate means. Consequently, the argument between In-House and ETA/Sellita/Miyota/whatever is less to do with technical merits (for most people) and more to do with bragging rights amongst the so-called cognoscenti.

[@anthonyshillingford848]

For me, the argument is not in-house vs third party, it's in-house vs cheap, ubiquitous, ETA. I would happily buy a Vacheron Constantin with a tricked out Jaeger LeCoultre movement, but I refuse to buy a $3000+ Breitling (for examle) with a decorated ETA 2824-2.....not when I can buy a Tissot, Hamilton, or even Steinhart with the same movement for $400! No one can justify the additional $2600+ dollars for some fancy decoration (which in many cases you won't see due to a non display case back being used) or some "regulation" to COSC standards, which anyway can't compete with a $50 Casio for accuracy. When you start to pay serious money for a watch, uou move beyond needing something that tells the time, to the purchase of ART. When we talk about art, we want to see companies taking watchmaking seriously, and creating something innovative, exclusive, and specific. You wouldn't spend millions on a Rembrandt if you knew he only painted the foreground of the picture, while the background was a simple generic reprint mostly found on postcards at a Hong Kong beach.

[@Adrian-Muica]

Anthony Shillingford well spoken! 😎

[@TheSkatereel]

Very well said. No grade of ETA 2824-2, found in 2-4K watches such as Tudor, are worth the premium when the base movement is available for $300-500 Hamilton’s

[@petershallis2294]

Good analogy there..

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Really great point here, Anthony. I think you are right on with your analysis.

[@andyreiter6253]

That’s all true and on the other hand an eta may be better then an expensive shit movement ... like I am thinking of buying an un 118 movement watch the in the Marine Torpilleur ... and I don’t know if this movement is any good ... like it might cost me thousands of dollars in the long run to repair ... more than the watch ... it’s like saying is a Ferrari engine always better than a vw momvdment ... well not if u need to drive 200 k km.

[@TruckeeDoggo]

The basic ETA 2824-2 and 2892-A2 automatic movements have been perfected through hundreds of thousands of movements produced through a period spanning several decades. They can be serviced by any good watchmaker and parts are readily available. The coveted Paul Newman Rolex Daytona watches used third party movements, as did vintage Breguet, Patek, etc. The rage over in-house movements is fairly new and is largely motivated by the desire to maximize revenue from service costs and freeze out independent watchmakers. There's an old adage that car dealers make more money off servicing the cars they sell, than they do from actually selling the cars themselves. Watch makers are trying to get into this game, charging customers many hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a basic routine servicing of the watch. It's almost pure profit for them. And they can get away with this for in-house movements because you're single sourced with the brand for parts and service; they can charge you anything and you have to pay it if you want your watch to work. With ETA-based movements, you have options and are not hostage to the brand.

[@gilbertoflores7397]

Actually in-house means you can keep your production costs down. Look up Vertical integration/monopoly, it's a business strategy that companies do in order to provide the best quality because they become responsible for all aspects of production. They don't pay mark up on parts, everything will be at cost for them because it all leads to the end product anyways. These companies are also slaves to the movement makers, ETA recently announced they would no longer sell movements to watch companies, because they wanted to make their own watches and focus on that. This caused panic in most watch companies as they relied on ETA movements. The "watch drought" we're in also a result of such an announcement, many of the companies have to move to an in-house system, and production for many companies have slowed down during this transition. Thus, why prices have been increasing on watches, same demand, less production, more value given to even used models. That's especially true with Rolex, but their reason is that many Asians markets are buying up all the watches. Either way, in-house is usually a good thing, if it's a good watch company. In your analogy of car dealerships, the seller doesn't make the cars, that's why they charge more and try to squeeze out as much as possible with their services that aren't the cost of the car. If the car company was also the one selling you the car, they wouldn't try to sell you all the bells and whistles, they'd just want you to buy the car, because they know it's value and all the hard work they've put into it.

[@eyeontime6136]

I totally agree in-house is an excuse to charge more. I'll take an ETA that's highly decorated and finely finished any day over an "In-house". However the price needs to reflect an ETA. Personally, I'll take a Seagull ETA clone over an overpriced ETA.

[@johnkimelman1742]

That was the single best reader comment I’ve ever read on a watch site. Thanks.

[@mikeanthony589]

Only simpleton plebs hate on ETA. They hate on ETA to try and "look cool" to their watch snob peers, and don't even have any ETA watches in their collection. Their watch case usually comprises of variants of the same Seiko SKX009, a Seiko 5, some Citizens, and whatever sub $500 fashion watch they managed to scrounge up money for.

[@reuben5757]

HokeyBear You are 100% correct on this issue.

[@mrxcman9272]

And here I am with my $60 Seiko SNK809 with an in house movement lol.

[@m3chris1]

Well all seiko are in house so yeah I have a few also.

[@milanpetkovic1990]

Great watch my bro!

[@nessilian]

Thats why I consider myself a SEIKOpath:)

[@DK-jd8bj]

Seiko doesn't do much "in house". Most of there parts are imported from China other Asian countries. Most of them are even assembled in China. Japanese laws allow them to do this and still legally say it's made in Japan. Huge scam.

[@mrxcman9272]

@@DK-jd8bj Source? Not saying you are lying, I just would like to keep myself properly informed.

[@real_fjcalabrese]

A quality in house movement is great. I'd rather have a reliable ETA or Selita than a crappy in house.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Keyword: "Quality" I totally agree my friend.

[@robertwoods4281]

Sir. I have awatch with an ETA movement and I have one with a sallita movement. Both are pretty good, one a little fast and one a little slow. But my 3255 and 9001 with 70 and 72 hours reserve are more accurate with twice the reserve. So I have to say I prefer in house to the the latter. I also have a couple of in house Japanese movements that are wonderful. But to each there own.

[@TruckeeDoggo]

I always laugh when people make generalizations based on one or two watches in their collections. The fact that your ETA watches are not as accurate is simply a function of them not being properly regulated. You can regulate an ETA movement to incredible levels of accuracy, easily within a second or two per day. I own many watches with in-house movements including Rolex, Omega, Glashutte, Grand Seiko, Zenith, and my most accurate watch to date is an ETA 2892-based IWC. The accuracy of most mechanical watches has more to do with how the movements were regulated and adjusted, than with any inherent accuracy of their movements.

[@anthlramirez]

For the past 25 years, I've been the only technician on the job who can tear down, repair, and rebuild analog synchronized clocks. After learning the skills necessary to keep these multi-decade old clocks running simultaneously accurate, I can deeply appreciate what it takes to miniaturize the cogs and gears to make a finely tuned timepiece. Of course cheap, tuning fork movements (quartz) can stay regulated far more accurately than any mechanical one. No one questions that. But some of us like to have a highly complex machine on our wrist that we can glance at, admire and respect the sheer artisan craftsmanship that went into making it. All that being said, in-house movements absolutely create a closed environment when it comes to servicing. Since no one company has successfully created the zero energy loss perpetual force machine (jewels notwithstanding), eventually all of them will need servicing. The premium is indeed lower for a watch with an ETA inside, simply because ETA absorbs all of the R & D costs, while not having to spend money on manufacturing the case, the dial, etc, or any other feature, even the bracelet. There is still one other consideration, where a manufacturer takes the base ETA movement, and uses it's own proprietary parts, along with it's own decorations, and makes a movement which is even more reliable and accurate than the base ETA one. From an owner's perspective, this marriage is more affordable to service than a wholly in-house model, because there are independent repair shops that can get the exact replacement parts needed and provide top notch servicing. The caveat in all this is that the source of the movement only really matters to the person buying the watch. If you want the exclusivity of a Rolex, you'll have to pay for it. If you prefer the design of a luxury brand that is still wholly Swiss, but will be easier to have serviced worldwide, then your available choices of brands and models increase. I like to remember that Tudor uses an ETA movement. If it's good enough for their parent corp, then it's good enough for me! My personal Swiss luxury watch is a Breitling Superocean 2.

[@alexanderguger1980]

Mine too, just got one :)

[@fikonfraktare]

Tudor have switched to in-house movements.

[@Redskies453]

I'm pretty sure the servicing interval has nothing to do with perpetual motion. You know you wind the watch as you wear it right?

[@bri13wvu1]

@@Redskies453 you're missing the point, there is perpetual motion, and there's friction. Even synthetic jewels aren't zero friction. So eventually the machine will need servicing. New lubrication, possibly new parts, etc.

[@Vv20vV]

Also, when servicing an ETA vs In House, clearly ETA will be the better choice. So many watchmakers are certified to service ETA vs having to send your in house back to its maker

[@881qyk]

Thanks for having the balls to give us your opinion! I’ve been bragging about my ETA 7750 since I purchased it in 2006! The company I chose to buy it from was Victorinox ( for obvious reasons) when coworkers give me the “yeah, but it’s not like it’s a Rolex” I proudly state- “ the movement in my watch is the same movement you’d find in an Omega, Breitling, IWC, etc!” The only difference is I didn’t shell out $4,000.00 for one of their logos!

[@trevbarlow9719]

ETA when modified as per brands like Tudor and IWC, is simply the best option IMO.

[@gbthe2nd]

I think ETA is the way to go. Especially if you're a working class stiff (guilty) and if you're into modifying/upgrading watches. They're solid, proven, and much easier to obtain and upgrade. Furthermore, if you're mechanically inclined (such as I am), replacing an ETA is fairly straightforward, so long as you follow directions. Now my comments for in house movements... In house movements are great, too. If you have the expendable cash for it. And by that, I also mean long-term maintenance for your watches. As confident as I am in regards to my mechanical abilities, I do not want to screw around with in house movements. Especially considering that I do not have the training for them. Someday, maybe. When I'm retired, bored, and I feel like going to Switzerland and enrolling in said courses.

[@voidifremoved]

I service my own ETA Movements. There are lots of information available to do so. When you own several watches and your not rich, it cuts costs. Some parts are interchangeable from model to model, are inexpensive and readily available. You can get pdfs from ETA that shows you the sequence of the removal, what oils to use and part numbers. Sort of like plastic model instructions. I consider this also part of my watch hobby. In house I would be at the mercy of the mfg.

[@DrRock2009]

L K oof- well done to you!

[@bri13wvu1]

L K that's awesome, good to know there is someone out there like myself! For some of us, saving for a $1-2k watch pushes the limit, and you can't spend 3-500 on the service. Learning (slowly) how to work on watches has grown my appreciation for them greatly.

[@erth2man]

After owning and using different mechanical watches with various movements over many years, one of the consistently best I'd say would be Omegas with the 1120 movement. This is an Omega enhanced ETA 2892. They stay accurate over the long haul, are reliable / rugged, and any watch repair tech has parts but best of all it doesn't cost a mint to get serviced.

[@harrybertulfo212]

you must be an airline Capt of long haul flight. Great.

[@jmhxxivkt5331]

Keep in mind when making your purchase, ALL watches will need servicing at some point. The higher end brands will ALWAYS cost more to repair or adjust. Great videos.

[@jimrees1778]

This video makes me think of a watch company that produces 100% in house movements and is one of the best built watches made. They are also extremely accurate, and are one of the lowest cost mechanical watches available today. I speak of Vostok of course. This shows that in house, high quality watches do not have to cost more.

[@fsdafdsafdas]

My kingdom for Vostok's with Sapphire crystal (yeah I know it won't bend but I'd like it to last too *tears*)

[@603gts]

Some companies like Grand Seiko manufacture all their components in house. Everything from the hair springs to growing their own quartz crystals for their Spring Drive movements (which is in house and I'd choose over an ETA any day of the week). I think ETA works great and I have quite a few but I probably set a limit on how much I'd pay for a watch with an ETA though.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

That is exactly my thoughts. I think once you start getting to 3-5 k, you have to question whether an eta is worth it.

[@jasonJones-ks5co]

Teddy Baldassarre thanks for clarifying that Teddy.

[@JungleEddie]

I believe the most I would pay for an ETA based watch is $1500 for the Sinn 556i b (on bracelet).

[@gilbertoflores7397]

Actually most seikos are in-house. Not just Grand Seikos. Some may have been assembled overseas, but they're seiko owned buildings in different countries. So buying any seikos, means in-house built.

[@JungleEddie]

@@gilbertoflores7397 A Seiko NH36 isn't in house when it is in a Boldr watch.

[@CJ2345ish]

I think there is still something to be said for companies who make their own movements (even if not in house) like Seiko even if they are only marginally better or marginally worse than ETA movements. It does show some level of respect for the craftsmanship because they're actually making the functional part of the watch, not just designing a case and assembling it.

[@Bobbylim323]

Tbh, eta movements can also be considered in house movements for brands that are owned by swatch

[@horologywatchmaking13]

Well said

[@kris8742]

@@errorrrr Omega, Longines, Breguet, are all part of the Swatch group

[@kris8742]

@@errorrrr Omega, Longines, Breguet, are all part of the Swatch group so ???

[@saynototheborg]

Not really, for a giant company like Swatch, ETA is just another company that supplies parts. When you say in house it means that the company themselves makes the movement themselves. That’s not really the case with swatch. Although ETA movements are amazing, not denigrating.

[@kris8742]

@@saynototheborg Its all one company so in my book its in house.

[@tmo8320]

The 3235 movement in my 50th Anniversary Rolex Sea-Dweller is an absolute beast. It is within 1.1 seconds +/- for months. Yes, Rolex movements are not “pretty,” and they are crazy reliable, built like tanks, and demonstrate a high level of accuracy.

[@TheWayofGrace89]

Seiko is the bridge between affordability and in-house. I proudly own two and am glad to say that they are a true manufacturer. However, that’s no knock at all against my Hamilton Khaki Mechanical’s ETA 2804-2. It’s a great watch with a solid, dependable, serviceable movement. You really can’t go wrong with either, because they’re ‘affordable’ - so, movement isn’t everything. However, in my opinion, if you’re paying $3k+ for a watch, then an ‘in-house’ movement really can make or break it as a worthwhile pickup. Look at a brand like Tudor. The fact that they now produce in-house movements only makes them even more desirable - while simultaneously making brands like Bremont seem way overpriced for asking $6k for a third party movement. Rant over.

[@davidcoleman2463]

I have a Hamilton field watch I don't remember is an ETA or in-house ?

[@winstonchurchill3597]

@@davidcoleman2463 No

[@ckm-mkc]

What most people tend to forget is that, for the most part, mechanical watches have reached the end of their evolution. ETA and in-house movements are not terribly different from each other. Most in-house movements are just copies of older ETA movements with some minor changes. Yes, some are better finished and there are some really crazy original in-house movements (I'm looking at you Urwerk), but for most mere mortals, the vast majority of attainable (e.g. sub- $15k) movements are pretty much all the same. And your $10 Casio will be more accurate than any mechanical movement, although there is much pleasure in having slightly inaccurate time beautifully displayed.

[@dantereyess]

The caliber is what makes a watch. You can have beautiful design and precious metals and more, if the movement doesn’t perform the way it should then you don’t have a watch. A watch is a tool that should be as accurate as possible. There are two types, manufacturers and designers. If you are in-house then you are manufacturing the components of a time piece. If you are a designer then you are creating a time piece based on components that are already available or can be manufactured to specifications. I value the in-house time pieces over the designer ones.

[@chrisb5917]

Teddy- I could not agree more. Unless a company has 100+ years of in house Calibers history.... I’d rather have an ETA, Miyota, Celita etc. movement. With companies like Rolex Seiko Patec that has been around for eons, who wants a company that is a flash in the pan, or flash in a case, backing up a movement (heart of the timepiece). This is what makes a collectible, collectibles is the serviceability of the item. Most of my micro brand purchases has a Seiko movement in them that I know any good watch maker can service or repair. Remember, ‘a broken watch is only good twice a day’! Love your channel....

[@baze3SC]

One thing that's not always considered is that if you have a specialized movement and you send your watch to the manufacturer for repair they might swap out your movement for someone else's refurbished one. It streamlines the process and it enables them to inspect the movement for flaws which aids further development but it's also something you may not find ethical. For me, if the watch is three-handed my preferred choice is ETA since any other movement would move the hands around the dial just the same. If it's a chronograph that's where I might opt for something more interesting.

[@jeffreybowden9835]

Thanks, great content. The biggest annoyance with in house is having to ship a watch back to the manufacturer for regular service because a local watchmaker can’t get parts, or is unable to service.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Alright, guys, what do you think of in-house movements, worth it or overrated? I know there are probably many different opinions on this so leave them down below.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Haha the servicing piece is a good argument for quartz, but damn, I just love mechanical pieces.

[@MathieuVuylsteke]

I think ETA has many advantages such as being relatively affordable, easily maintenance, cheap to service and still retain their incredible quality and reliability! In-house is not necessarily better or more accurate so I would only pay extra for a watch with an in-house movement if it's a really prestige watch. If Rolex for example would use ETA in certain models I wouldn't care, but if I were to but a Patek or an AP I would really want in-house or nothing.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

You sum up my thoughts perfectly!

[@JoeyP-hu3hp]

it is a real pleasure to see decorated, well finished in house movts. If you can afford it why not? Overrated? I think its more like overpriced! You can be practical and buy pre owned or condition zero. Just be ready for service costs. I can settle for eta 2824's right now.

[@sbsb4995]

Steve, TheDailyShaver Quartz indeed is the way to go for its accuracy and reliability.

[@deeman1643]

I agree with you completely. I think the criticism of ETA movements is not rooted in the performance of the movement, but in the fact that many luxury watch manufacturers were putting inexpensive ETA movements in the wrist watches and then charging the public exorbatant prices. Like you, I prefer a high quality ETA movement over most in-house movements because of ease and low cost of service. Nice video. Keep it up!

[@csharpewalls]

In-house movements aren’t necessarily out-house movements, Miyota is the in-house movement for Citizen, my Orient has its own Movement which keeps great time in my Ray 2. And Seiko, so many brands use their movements which are in-house. The term I think is used as a marketing tool to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Very good points here, Chris. I am still blown away by some of the value that brands like Orient, Citizen, and Seiko represent. Agree on the marketing component as well.

[@Ken-vl4wk]

Lol I worked there. Miyota, Cimeo and Citizen in Miyota, Nagano.

[@kavashaman7555]

@@Ken-vl4wk and I’m an astronaut

[@SharapovaFan]

My Valjoux 7751-equipped Speedmaster Triple Date runs like a tank with zero problems. Considering it's almost 20 years old and has a fair bit of complications, I couldn't ask for a more reliable and serviceable movement. Seiko doesn't have anything like that at any price point. As for modified ETA movements without complications, I don't think they're made the same. For instance, I have a Breitling Colt with the Breitling 17 movement which is a modified ETA 2824-2. Hand winding is smoother and far more quiet than standard ETA 2824-2 movements I've tried on cheaper watches. As for the price they ask, some brands go overboard. But surely they had to keep excellent time keeping in mind when making these watches, and ETA movements can deliver that. It's difficult to go with a purely in-house movement that very few watchmakers can service. Parts alone could be scarce and difficult to source. A watch that breaks or doesn't keep time properly is not a watch you want to wear, regardless of brand. Reliability is always a consideration at any price point.

[@notDonaldFagen]

Love ETA/Sellita and some Seikos found in Toms of watches. Really the only fancy in house I lust over is a Spring Drive.

[@HannesHeuer]

I have to agree

[@haraldmiller4894]

ETA from the highest grade of selection is a very good movement! Congrats to your Junghans watch.

[@kevincraig1773]

Nice video. I prefer the ETA movements (price and dependability)

[@shaikon5617]

My problem isn't with the ETA movements - they are truly great. But when shopping for a watch I'm expecting the price to reflect whether or not the manufacturer went through the effort and associated cost of developing and manufacturing in-house - and it's not always the case. That's why I'll never pay > 2000$ for a watch with an ETA.

[@stephenscharf6293]

Good video, Teddy. Agree 100%. As someone who used to teach engineers in product design and mfg, a key principle is that “quality” is not the result of WHERE things are done, but HOW they are done. If you use identical parts manufactured to the same tolerances, and out of the same materials, and assembled with the same tolerance stack up, they WILL function identically when assembled. And, hence, provide exactly the same functionality and quality. From a systems engineering perspective, all they are doing here is providing a transfer function. There is no magic here, only sound engineering. Oh, And one last point: let us not forget that world’s largest manufacturer of mechanical movements in the world by far, is Seiko (and Orient), not ETA.

[@philipsdefreville6138]

It depends. I don't like seeing a larger watch, with an exhibition caseback showing a small ETA movement. If the movement looks small for the watch, I'd rather see a closed caseback. In house movements with exhibition casebacks can look better because they are built to the watch and case size. Would not buy a watch with a Sellita, they are not built as well as ETA and use thinner metal, so rivets are not as strong. This comes from a watchmaker with over 35 years experience.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Thank you for your comment, my friend. This is great insight from a person of your experience.

[@andyreiter6253]

Sir what do you think about Lemania 1350 ( Breguet type 20) and Ulysse Nardin new 118 movement ?

[@philipsdefreville6138]

The Lemania in the Breguet is not a column wheel chrono, but still an excellent movement.

[@petercoss4281]

philips defreville now

[@ihabkahnung]

Would you please explain the rivet problem? i am the total noob but i never saw a rivet in a watch (besides old Timexes) . Maybe because i dont look for them. Friction fitted gears yes. I know that. Elaborate plz.

[@jazzman5598]

In my mostly sub $500.00 very modest collection I was SO excited to know I had an ETA 2893-2 in my STEINHART Ocean 39 Vintage GMT. Oh man, I have not taken it off since Christmas. The paperwork indicated the possibility of having a Sellita SW 330. I know Sellita makes superb ETA clones but after finding the Make and model of my watch was indeed an ETA really made my day. For sure owners of Rolex, Grand Seiko, and other luxury brands probably feel differently but I love my new watch and ETA movement was the best!

[@ussling]

To my surprise, my 2007 Breitling SuperOcean has an ETA 2824-2 movement. It gains 2-4 seconds a day. Pretty accurate for an automatic movement.

[@SirDVV]

I think you're right, if we talk about watches waaaaay south of $3000, anything over that price has to show a great finishing of the rest of the watch to justify the enormous price tag. For example: Tag Heuer Carrera Calibre 16. It's over 4000€ in Europe, about $4500!!! It uses an ETA7750!!! You can get that movement for under $400 (imagine the price for a watch manufacturer purchasing thousands of them!). There is just no way to justify $4500 for the whole watch, just no way. The fact that you can get it used for under $1500 proves me right. So ETA is alright as long as the price of the whole watch stays in line with the actual cost of the movement, otherwise, I am sorry, I want them to spend some of my money designing and manufacturing a movement.

[@eigrp]

I wouldn't bat an eye at a Miyota 9000 series or a Seiko movement either. When somebody criticizes a sub-$2500 watch because the movement isn't in-house it's probably someone who's new to watches and thinks he's demonstrating his watch savvy. In reality, it shows he still has a lot to learn.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Agreed. There are a lot of solid third-party movements that are getting thrown in a lot of watch brands. That said, I wanted to give the spotlight to ETA since they are the biggest without a doubt.

[@881qyk]

Agreed. Well said!

[@gilbertoflores7397]

I think that's where you're a little wrong, most higher end seikos that are like 500-1000 dollar range are very comperable to many 1000-3000 eta watches, why? Their in-house system makes it cheaper to produce such watches and are a better value for price, probably the best in the watch world. After that, if you want a step up in their quailty , you're going into Grand Seiko waters, that are like 3-5k, which are comparable, and actually better than most watches in the 6k+ swiss watches. Spring drive destroys many swiss automatic movements, hands down. If you're into movements, you'd know spring drive is some of the best engineering available for watches.

[@antonhelsgaun]

@@gilbertoflores7397 though spring drive uses quartz which could be considered "cheating"

[@gilbertoflores7397]

@@antonhelsgaun how is it cheating? Quartz crystal vibrate at a consistent rate, so it's used to regulates the beat of the movement to be as accurate as possible because the movement itself powers the crystal. It's an improvement to watch engineering, which they hold the patent on, swiss watchmakers would also be using it if they could. It's not cheating, they're just ahead of the game and on the next level when it comes to engineering and advancement.

[@MikeRehfuss]

I have a RESCO Kauffman with an ETA movement and I love it. I think one of the benefits of the ETA mov’t you didn’t mention was the serviceability. Any watchmaker worth a damn can service a 2824. Take him your Tudor BB and you’re playing with fire.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I glanced over it, but that is a bigger point than what I made in the video. Servicing for a complex in-house movement will have you paying upwards of a thousand dollars easily.

[@darrinbeckum7945]

I’m loving the look of the Resco Kauffman and I’m probably about to order one up. I prefer larger watches so I’m hoping it works

[@xderiwx]

Thumbs up for the Resco! What kind of time has it been keeping for you? I have a Gen2 Patriot.

[@cvshasta]

I love in-house movements like Nomos. Makes a big difference to me.

[@TautologyTechSystems]

I used to think in-house movements were cool. Now I see the advantage of a good Sellita/ETA. They more affordable with parts that are readily available, the service costs are much lower and any watchmaker can work on them. They can be regulated to run at chronometer specs and they are robust and reliable. In house movements are still cool, but a pain in almost every other respect. For a daily wearer, I would go ETA/Sellita. The only in-house I really like right now is the Omega 8900. It is scary accurate and the antimagnetic properties take it a leap futher technologically.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I agree with you! I think there is a short list of in-house movements actually worth it. At that point, we are talking luxury pieces.

[@TautologyTechSystems]

Strangely Brown I totally agree.

[@emonty62]

agree, 8900 is rock solid in my Globemaster!

[@jacc88888]

I agree but with the exception of some Japanese in house movements. Eg Seiko 6R15 or Orient Star movements are arguably on parr with the ETA 2824 and would be preferable personally due to not needing to be serviced so frequently as their Swiss counterpart.

[@aleone5685]

I generally agree, but I think my Nomos is a little extra cool for having an in-house movement.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

As someone who owns two watches by Nomos, I think they are one of those brands that use in-house to their favor in a great way. They make some beautiful, reliable movements at a very reasonable price.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Agreed! I am currently in NYC traveling for the weekend and I just have my Nomos Orion with the Alpha manual movement. Beautifully decorated.

[@BigChungusthe3rd]

@@TeddyBaldassarre would you recommend going for the Nomos Orion automatic over the manual? Is it worth the $1000 premium?

[@nmoddentity8401]

As my collection grows I'm beginning to think about servicing. In house movements seem more likely to require specialized and more costly servicing.

[@winstonchurchill3597]

You think.

[@HSalamista]

Hi Teddy, I would say up to 3K, ETA or Selita are OK. Everything above that up to 5K I would go with Heavily modified ETA or an In-House. From 5K above Inhouse only!

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I agree with this 100% thanks for watching

[@valentinmanz4089]

I'm just not getting why you don't have like a million subs on your channel, because your videos are quality, keep up the great work! And a quick question Teddy, where did you get that beautiful brown leather strap that you often show on your Nomos Glashütte? Need one for my new Orient Bambino. My first automatic watch and I'm loving it. Got the third version with that stunning blue dial. Need a nice strap though! Would be massively appreciated if you'd answer as always!

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

You are the man, Valentin. We are growing gradually but surely. We are just getting started though. So that strap is from band r bands. It is their brown suede strap that I think you are referring to. An important point to make is that the Bambinos have 21mm lug width. Makes it a bit more difficult to find a strap.

[@bentcph2031]

Because Teddy keeps it real. He doesn't buy views or subscribers. ;)

[@valentinmanz4089]

Teddy Baldassarre ok thanks for the info, keep grinding

[@hammalamiri12]

Truth is watch enthusiasts are a very small percentage of modern society. I sit on the subway every day going into work and only about 5% of people around me are wearing a watch and most of them just a fashion item.

[@watchalot919]

For example. An Nh35 can be regulated very accurately. I own a Phoibos that is +1 spd. They are reliable, and used every day will last ten years without service. If it goes wrong it can be replaced for next to nothing. Now, give me a practical reason to use anything else? The movement is represenatative of what one pays, but that doesn't necessarily make it any better. Movement manufacturers have been doing it for many years, so why would one pay more for a movement made by a watch manufacturer with less experience.

[@1SaG]

Perhaps I view this too much from a practical POV, but: I have three Swiss watches, all running on ETA-movements or Sellita clones of ETAs. 2824, SW200, SW330. All of them are running either within COSC specs or just outside of them - but none of the watches were more than €700. Plus I know that when it comes time to service these watches, it won't cost me an arm and a leg and practically every watchmaker in the world will be able to do the service.

[@rickj8859]

Most watchmakers, Patek Philippe and Vacheron included, either use ETA movements as a base, or buy ETA parts and modify them to suit. Very few manufacturers make their movements from scratch and you might find those particular movements in watches that cost in excess of €20,000. Disadvantage of having in-house movement in your watch is, that you can't repair it outside manufacturer's repair centre. Hence the cost of repair and service will be considerably higher, than if done by independent repairer.

[@marcgirard7551]

I'm personally comfortable with a good ETA movement but wonder a couple things: 1. Does a watch with an ETA movement see similar collectable-ness (not a word, I know) as a watch with and in-house movement? 2. What about maintenance of value versus in-house? 3. Let's look at an example like NOMOS. Very cool watches and in-house movements. There's a cache to that but I wonder how they'd compare to ETA equipped watches as well in terms of performance and value maintenance? Great video again, Teddy! Sorry I'm so late to the game on this one but I'm hoping you'll take a stab at this Johnny-come-lately's questions!

[@paulbrady701]

Hi Teddy I think any watch from any maker that’s got an ETA 2824-2 movement or better could be call a very good quality watch the movement has stood the test of time.Just my own opinion.👍🏻

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I totally agree, paul. Thanks for watching!

[@philiplauzon1743]

100% very well summed up. I agree that ETA are great movements. I have a 2824-2 in my Tissot Seastar since 2012 and have had no issues, serviced once in 2019. On the other hand I was expecting in house movement when I bought my Omega Speedmaster

[@cooperwardell8558]

I think a lot of people throw the term “in-house” around without knowing much about watchmaking or why expensive watches are expensive. If you want a watch to be cheap and reliable, then an ETA or similar movement makes sense. If you want the watch to either be a) capable of doing complicated things mechanically, b) be expertly finished by hand, or c) both of the above, you quickly get into the 10s of thousands of dollars if not more. So what I don’t like is when a watch brand goes “in house” and then charges a big premium, but doesn’t provide interesting complication, finishing or at least better performance than an ETA counterpart. However I can give two examples from my own collection where “in house” really does get you something: Tudor black bay with in house movement - they switched a couple years ago: it has a 70 hour power reserve on one barrel, and it has a silicon balance spring and escapement. It is also chronometer certified. And they didn’t increase the price from when they were putting ETA in. Now in my opinion that is a great value. JLC Geophysic true second in steel: JLC has made movements in house forever. This watch has a watch-nerd-cool dead seconds complication, is finished very well for a movement in a watch under $10k, and as a flourish has a 22k rose gold winding rotor. Also this movement has a new type of balance wheel, look it up it’s very cool. Again this is a lot of value added, the watch is priced well, and it is so accurate that it amazes me. I think a better way to look at in house is forget whether it’s in house or not. Look for a watch that has the features, fit, and finish you are looking for, find options within your budget, compare them and pick the one that gives you the most value. This is after all a very personal and almost sentimental hobby since the best mechanical watch will never tell time as well as my Apple perpetual calendar grand sonnerie chronograph countdown timer (iPhone).

[@hoffmancapote]

I have an IWC watch from the 90s and I have visited IWC in Schafhausen a few times. They now make all of their own movements since Swatch put a restriction on supplying new developed ETA movements. Several of their watchmakers have informed me though that some of their ETA modified by IWC movements were really good movements for over all performance and accuracy. I got the impression for toughness and shock resistance they thought they were better. When IWC used ETA movements though they did modify them extensive though by plating them, changing parts of they key works, adding jewels and often changing the main spring

[@chadwaters261]

Hi Teddy, Your Junghans is beautiful and one I have been considering purchasing myself......I think you touched on a large part of the appeal of in-house movements when you stated that they touch the heart strings. It is the romance of thinking of one company, with its special room of watchmakers, using their ancient craft, and dare I say adding a touch of love, into the watch that eventually we will be wearing on our wrist. As you say, high-end ETA movements can be just as complex and quality as in-house, but many are willing to spend the extra money for the romance and cachet of buying a timepiece that is created, so they believe, entirely in-house.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Totally agree with you, Chad. Awesome to hear that you are thinking about getting a chronoscope. It is a fun watch to wear.

[@TheSproox]

ETA movements used to be easily serviceable and parts readily available but the Swatch group stopped selling to non members hence the jump in prices and rage for in-house movements.

[@TheWatcher60401]

The powermatic 80 in my Tissot seastar which is a modified 2824-2 runs at around-1 second a day. Definitely cannot complain about that. What my goal watch right now is though is the 8800 caliber movement of Omega. Guaranteed to run at 0 to +5 seconds a day. Beautiful.

[@davidmcclain8851]

ETA makes great movements. I have a watches with them that I love. I did pay more for a Breitling with their in house B01 that I do feel is superior though.

[@cedarcanoe]

I agree with you, and personally I am happy with the ETA movement in a watch.

[@tacummins]

Where I begin to have issues with watch companies not using a well constructed in-house movement is when their price points begin to approach $2k,$3k or even $4k with an ETA or a slightly modified ETA movement. Many watches in the Hamilton array can be had with an ETA for as little as $400; I do not see the value in purchasing a $3k watch with the same or similar ETA. Typically these higher price watches with ETA's loose their value precipitously on the secondhand market. For this reason I decided to save my shillings and purchase a Rolex Submariner and am eyeing my next. Keep up the good work, enjoying your thoughts.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I agree with you, my friend. Congrats on the submariner. Which version did you decide to go with?

[@dgb6355]

Great vid, we will see more companies going to in-house movement as ETA (Swatch Group) has stopped selling their bits. The most expensive vintage watches have ETA inside but now the marketing trend is for in-house. ETA is a work horse while high end in-house is much decorated with attention to detail. You have pros and cons for both. Usually if you want high end modern watches with sapphire back case the in-house is much nicer to see. For all who are against ETA: the most expensive watch ever “Paul Newman’s Paul Newman” has an ETA inside. Cheers.

[@NantucketPictures]

I'm getting a Vaer A7 made in Venice California, that has a ETA 2824 movement. They also offer ETA quartz, as well as Miyota 9015 movement from Japan. Vaer is one of the best watches companies today.

[@jackbear5564]

Spot on with your assessment. In house allows a brand to charge £2k & upwards, probably why Tudor are going in house.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Agreed, Jack. Thanks for watching!

[@andreschmitz1548]

Seiko uses in house moviments, and despite not being so precise are very reliable. That's the cheapest way to own a truly in house movement. Anyway, ETA calibers are just great!

[@WristwatchObsession]

I've been on the same page about in house movements. Just because it's in-house doesn't mean it's a better movement than a 2824-2 for example. I also look at service costs, many watch enthusiasts I believe don't look at the maintenance, which is similar to a car that needs cleaning, lubrication and adjusting. Some in-house movements cost 3 or 4 times or more than an ETA to service. Also, since it is basically proprietary the parts etc can only come from that one company.. if it ever folds it may be very expensive to keep the watch going. Rolex would be a different story, there movements are fantastic, and the $800 or so to do a complete service is reasonable for the price of the watch.

[@DBravo29er]

Great video Teddy! Don't forget about Sellita! 👍

[@antidot556]

I have a RW and Oris with Sellita based regulated movements and they perform great within 3 to 4 secs in a day. I also have two Orient Stars with max 4 to 5 secs in a day. And i feel no need for a watch with in-house movement to get a proper performance.

[@robertnorth1681]

What about a brand like Nomos, which is “affordable” but also all in house. To me, the German commitment to engineering excellence is part of what make Nomos appealing, esp when you consider that the Tudor BB58 is in house and certified... how do you choose which way to go from a value, engineering perspective?

[@Rlhaley1225]

The whole in-house controversy is really just a Euro thing, after the quartz revolution the Swiss lost the low and mid end of the watch market. The market for expensive, Swiss high end quartz watches proved - small, so with Rolex as the poster child for Swiss quality in mechanical watches, the Swiss focused on the high end. With the steady rise in prices, In-house movements were a way to differentiate a brand and drive marketing while justifying even higher prices. Looking at the Asian watch makers this is not a thing at all. Personally, I think this has hurt the Swiss more than helped. When you look at in-house movements you find very expensive watches that can only be serviced or repaired by the watch maker at a very high price.

[@pstamaria]

I fully agree with you dude. If you are going to spend thousands of 💰on watches like Rolex, sure they should have in-house movements. For all other purchases ETA’s are fine! Thx for bringing this one out!

[@stephenjcarr1]

I agree with the conclusion. My own experience: I just bought an IWC Pilot Chronograph Le Petit Prince which uses an ETA 7550. If money were no object, I'd prefer the Big Pilot Le Petit Prince. But the Big Pilot is approx 3 times the price for an in house movement, and I just couldnt imagine spending that much. They both have the same look and feel, so I'm happy.

[@bryanlloyd6024]

I guess my basic questions is how do you know the in-house movement is a genuine improvement versus just a scheme to charge more for the watch?

[@ToolsAndI]

It is funny that you mention Dr. George Daniels in this video. Believe it or not I have come across some sales representatives at the Omega boutique stores that don't even have an idea of who George Daniels was. This is like being a salesperson for Porsche and not knowing anything about the engine under the hood of their cars or the history of the brand. I think is Omega's fault an not so much their sales people but nonetheless is a shame the lack of knowledge some sale reps display at a good number of these high end retail stores. Many times you ask about ideas for new videos and I think a video about George Daniels would be very cool, after all he is the greatest horologist of our era, including information about his apprentice Roger W Smith. Thank you!

[@salangchoi02]

Most watch collectors don’t have any issues with ETA. However, the issues are with ETA movement watches commanding inhouse watches prices.

[@walterkiebart9728]

Hello, 90 % Percent of my Collection are Vintagewatches, so i have a lot Inhouse, but as Daily Drivers i use my Microbrands all of them except one with a Seiko NH 35.

[@thelastdon4664]

I derive joy in the engine that runs in my vehicle...the movement that keeps my time ticking is what gives me satisfaction in a watch. In-house movement may be a bit pricey but likely to fall short in comparison with other movements which have withstood the test of time. Some in-house movements are wonderfully crafted reliable piece that is worth every grain in money. Having said this... permit my excessive love for reliable movements. Watch bodies are complimentary beauty and when coupled with reliable movement it becomes a good timepiece that watch lovers adore.

[@Watchdoc65]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with ETA! They are probably more reliable and parts readily available, easy to service! Perhaps one of the best ETA/Valjoux movements ever made was the 7750 chronograph movement! I’ve never seen a more reliable and accurate movement with date feature than this one and I’ve been collecting watches for over 30 years!

[@Ricardo-uu6gl]

Teddy let me tell you I've been really enjoying your videos especially the interviews. Love the ones with Christian and Alpha May I suggest a future guest, Ben Clymer or someone over at Hodinkee. It probably won't be easy but from the few interviews I've seen with Ben I think it would make a great episode! As for the subject of this video, I love ETA movements because just as you said they are reliable and good quality and you don't have to pay the premium of the in-house tag. Although I understand the problems some guys have with them, if you're paying a few thousand bucks on a IWC or a Breitling that have the resources to produce in house it's nice to have a more exclusive movement. Keep up the great work man!

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

That is a great idea. Getting Ben on the show would be amazing. We will see if we can get him! Thanks for the continued support, Ricardo.

[@23727bgk]

In house high end movements are only important if they somehow work better. I have experience primarily with ETA, ETA clone and Seiko movements. So far for me the most accurate movements have been ETA clones or modified Seiko's. You do not have to spend a lot to get COSC accuracy. High power reserve levels seem to be the only advantage to some special in house movements, imo.

[@bornabosnjak810]

ETA makes more sense for lower priced watches, but when you're getting into serious luxury (cost-wise, at least), a certain level of exclusivity can be expected. For example, I know a lot of people dislike Hublot for pricing their watches the way they do, while still containing ETA/Sellita (un)modified movements. I don't mind it, I actually like a lot of their Classic Fusion lineup.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I totally agree with you here. Thank you, my friend.

[@deltropico7]

All boils down to value proposition; what you get vs how much it costs. In my books, a third party movement powered piece is better than a crappy in-house; once passing the $2-3k range or so, a solid in-house movement desirable and attainable (better examples of Seiko, Tudor, etc). +$5k in-house are inexcusable, no matter how "heavily modified" (Bremont), having COSC/METAS available from Rolex/Omega (used, entry level). Value proposition.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

I agree. I think once we start getting over 3k I think there should probably be an in-house movement. Anything over 5k should not have an ETA.

[@anoxicfiltrationplenums]

You’re absolutely right, one would have to take apart every watch and then accurately measure each part to make sure it falls into the exact tolerances of all the blueprints. Until that happens, one can only measure by accuracy of the movement and longevity of the movement .

[@VmanStudioz]

100% agree. I wish someone would build a chart breaking down ETA movements and their inferior counterparts - but also documenting where the high in house movements separate themselves. This would be epic to shine a spotlight on a dirty corrupt industry!

[@lukeventers4755]

My new Smith & Bradley "Atlantis" has an ETA 2824-2 and it's a dream boat. Black face, super-Luminova, 316L, and 200M, designed, literally to take a beating and keep on ticking. Hello from MT. I'm a collector, and you can consider me a friend.

[@crossbones8956]

ETA over in-house, and I have an in-house movement. I know that if that watch (Nomos) breaks, I'm screwed, and have to send it back to them to have it serviced. With an ETA, I can take it to a local watch shop to have them repair it as it's such a widely used movement.

[@danishdart]

This topic really applies to all manufacturing over many industries. A company that has control over all Aspects of its production from raw materials to its final product also has control over quality and supply during the process and therefore potentially has a better product.. 'Potentially' is the key word here. But I think for the most part that it holds true. The care factor is there. A company that cares enough to invest in the manufacturing of its product, cares about its product. Fashion brands as an example, notoriously don't.

[@sbsb4995]

No in house movements for me. ETA all the way.

[@AbdulRWatches]

ETA movements are solid, are cheap and easy to service. In-House movements from big houses like Patek, AP, VC, Lange, etc.. are without a doubt better, but it comes with a price. But in-house movement from new brands, micro-brands, or even watch brands with low quality material are most probably worse than ETA, as ETA has the experience and funds to give out the best possible movements for the amount of money paid for it. Some even luxury watches like IWC, Panerai and more are using ETA movements, to decrease the price of the watch or just decrease the costs and increase profits.

[@TeddyBaldassarre]

Really good points, Abdul. I agree with you entirely.

[@stevenuk]

my goodness, only just seen this and Teddy is so right. Many high-end in-house movements are returned due to normal wear failure. This in-house movement thing is so over-hyped.

[@ericmal5055]

I will pay a premium for in-house. I decided not to go with an IWC because it had an modified ETA. I feel that if you spend more than 7K you should get in-house movements. I agree with you if you are not investing that much ETA is very good.

[@GamePodify]

I agree. What I want us a sturdy movement who is easy and cheap to service. I want to be able to use my watch to what I am doing, not just when I Study, but kayak, skiing, weights and running etc.

[@kenkellar2246]

I have an inhouse movement every day & always flush them down!!! Lol😂😂😂👍

[@robertfeast7691]

I think this video nails it with regard to watch movements. ETA and Sellita movements are perfect for the majority of watches. A couple of years ago I had a no date Sub serviced by Rolex. The service cost was ridiculous at £700. I also had a Longines service with an ETA serviced in the same year at a cost of less that £200. Rolex really annoyed me by changing the bezel which I particularly didn't want done. I can see that if you spend upwards of £5000 you'd expect an in house movement but I don't think it would necessary better or as robust as an ETA or Sellita. Interestingly Sellita has updated and improved some the ETA clones by re profiling and additional jewels.

[@bulldogms]

Rolex is a highway robber. I sold mine because they wanted to charge me $1k for a new dial + more to install it. Now I wear a Glycine Combat Sub.

[@InvisibleMinority]

One thing I'm having trouble finding is a list of which watch manufacturers are fully in-house "manufactures". Is this something that you could cover in a video, along with your thoughts on how their movement quality compares to ETA movements? From what I've been able to find, these brands' movements are made entirely in-house (now, not always true for all of them): A. Lange & Söhne Arnold & Son F.P. Journe Jaeger-LeCoultre Nomos Patek Philippe Rolex Seiko Swatch Is that list correct? What's missing? (A lot, I'm sure.) And how do they stack up against ETA movements?

[@johnnynorre]

In my watch collection, I like diversity. A special movement (in-house or not, just different from my other watches) can earn a watch a place in my collection, while to add yet another NH35 based watch only happens if the watch is truly special in another way. In the same way, adding another ETA 2824 to the collection just doesn't cut it, unless something is special. An in-house movement is a point, which almost always sets the watch apart from other watches, so for this reason I treasure an in-house movement.

[@BojanBojovic]

People are snobs. Me too. At the end, affordable Seiko will last for 50 years like some expensive Rolex, when it comes to quality. Then many believes that only expensive watches are worth buying, and so on. Snobs...

[@jackburtonstwin]

I have numerous watches featuring either the ETA 2824-2 or the ETA 2892-2 movements (many 20+ years old) and I have found them to be robust, easy to fix, easy to source parts for and, when carefully regulated, commendably accurate too. The use of the term "in-house" has, I feel, been somewhat over played. Technically, many Japanese watches have in-house movements, such as Seiko, Citizen and Orient and few people rave about their perceived value. I feel it only really carries significance with hand-crafted haute-horology pieces or interesting technical innovations such as Omega's Co-axial or Grand Seiko's Spring Drive systems.

[@trdi]

As other said, the problem are very expensive watches on ETA movements. You can find 7k+ watches with modified ETA. agree with the video that for 1k-2k watches ETA is just amazing value for money otherwise. I think that an important advantage of in-house movements (from good brands of course) is that the watches in general hold value better. There are exceptions on both sides.

[@checkenginelightison8317]

While searching for a chronograph I decided on Sinn 356 with an ETA Valjoux 7750. I realize the Selleta SW 500 still isn't an in house movt but I always wanted a 7750, this one I found with a recent overhaul with docs to prove it still cost a pretty penny. Sometimes just getting exactly what you want is worth the added expense. :)

[@juniorjohnson5961]

Thank you for helping me understand more about the subject ,I enjoy your videos look forward to the next !!