In the Prog Seat: Album War-Yes vs Genesis vs King Crimson vs ELP

Join the In the Prog Seat crew for an album war between 4 bands whose albums represented are absolute classics: Yes 'Close to the Edge', Genesis 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway', King Crimson 'Red', and ELP 'Brain Salad Surgery'.
💰Donate via Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/peterpardosseaoftra...
👕Order your SoT merch: www.t8cloth.com/pages/sot
🤩 Get your Cameo video: www.cameo.com/sotdude1966
🖥 Visit our website: www.seaoftranquility.org

[@harizonflamingice3167]

1. Close to the Edge 2. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway 3. Brain Salad Surgery 4. Red

[@lemming9984]

Agree. Close wins it for me by a whisker over Lamb. BSS is OK apart from the jazzier parts, and Benny is just f***ing awful! I have Red but have always thought it suffered from Wetton's voice.

[@ericarmstrong6540]

1) Red 2) Close to the Edge 3) Lamb 4) Brain Salad Surgery.

[@visualizeprog2874]

I'm surprised that most of the panelists expressed a dislike for ELP's "Jerusalem". That song was one of the first things that I heard from ELP and was one of the main songs that drew me into being a fan. Sounded so majestic and beautiful to me back then, and still does. Didn't know it was an authentic old English Church hymn until buying the album and reading the credits. Over the years I've come to find it's placement on the album to be quite clever, too. The album kicks off with this majestic song of faith and English pride, then proceeds with a lot of dark themed material & (sometimes) ominous sounds. "Jerusalem" can almost be taken in an ironic way - a statement of ideals that would seem to be contradicted by the rest of the album, i.e. machines taking over and besting the proud human race.

[@SwanShadow]

1. Close To The Edge (weird because I generally prefer Genesis to Yes, but here we are; a perfect prog album) 2. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (love it dearly, but it needed an editor) 3. Brain Salad Surgery (great, but I prefer the two ELP albums that preceded it) 4. Red (a tough fourth place, given that "Starless" is probably my favorite King Crimson track)

[@DavysFlicks]

Red is EASILY my most played of the lot. More diverse from rage to beauty. Yet Close To The Edge has pure majesty in sections, The Lamb is the zenith of where Genesis could go with Gabriel's ambitions and Brain Salad is easily the most consistently great ELP project, staying just the right side of overblown. So it's Red for me but - clearly - not really wrong answers here.

[@gajk041008]

1. Close 2. Brain 3. Lamb 4. Red These are 4 iconic heavy hitters!!

[@josephvanalstyne4049]

that is my order. and i believe the correct order.

[@MrFrostien]

4 Brain Salad Surgery 3 The Lamb Lies down on Brodway 2 Close to the Edge 1 RED

[@VincentBautista365]

We are completely opposite...

[@shyshift]

Luis, Mike Rutherford didn’t use a Rickenbacker on The Lamb or the show I attended January 22,1975. He played a double neck MicroFret 6 string bass and a 12 string guitar. The bass is tuned an octave below the 12 string i/e Fender Bass VI. That’s how he’s able to play so nimble.

[@BonafonteLeonardo]

1. Close to the Edge 2. Red 3. The Lamb Lis Down on Broadway 4. Brain Salad Surgery

[@ScottBerry-yn8rw]

4. Brain Salad Surgery 3. Red 2. Lamb 1. Close to the Edge

[@siribal]

THANK YOU for another fantastic episode, gentlemen!! Taking a seat with you guys in the prog seat is ALWAYS a pleasure. I was only irritated that you picked The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway for Genesis. I love this album too, but I always thought that the two previous records (Selling England By The Pound & Foxtrot) are slightly stronger and more highly regarded. At least over here in Europe and on certain Prog pages in the internet, so that confused me a little bit....but also led to the following idea: to clearify the true number one in Genesis' output, why not making an album wars special episode with Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England and The Lamb? I would love to see and hear you guys (and the community) discussing this topic. Putting these four masterpieces into perspective should be fun!! Thanx once again for all the SoT content. Pavlos :)

[@lesblatnyak5947]

I'm proud to say own them all original and wore them out, and still listen to them ✨️🎶✨️ Fifty years for most or more

[@Rickengeezer]

Love all, have to arrange in order of the percentage of stuff I think could be edited out of the albums without significant loss: 4. Lamb (edits: fair amount of stuff towards the end) 3. Brain Salad edits: Benny, parts of Toccata, a few snippets of Karn, and somebody get Greg Lake a ladder, fer chrissakes) 2. Red (edits: maybe parts of Providence) 1. CTTE (edits: not a freaking second)

[@garyjoyce2160]

1- Close 2-brain 3- red. 4- lamb /. However / all 4 great. No wrong answer. 👍💯

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

That was my choice too a few days ago when I was the first commenter when I saw this post come up 😀

[@garyjoyce2160]

@@truckerkevthepaidtourist 👍💯

[@garyjoyce2160]

Damn good show as usual. Thanks to Pete and his great co hosts 👍💯

[@craigtoelle1052]

Brutal, just absolutely brutal trying to rank these 4.

[@joshcreasey]

1. Yes - Close To The Edge 2. King Crimson - Red 3. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadwav 4. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery Close To The Edge is nothing but perfection from start to finish. The Lamb has so many great moments and individual tracks, but it's a little disiointed in places. Red, especially the title track and Starless, is a must-have for any prog fan's collection. Brain Salad Surgery, a little like The Lamb, is a bit disjointed in spots. I actually do enjoy Benny The Bouncer with Greg adapting a Cockney accent. Karn Evil 9 is 29+ minutes of some of the band's best playing and Toccata, with the band's arrangement, was way ahead of its time. Great episode, gentlemen!

[@Maplaka]

for me it's 1. red without hesitation even though providence... 2. brain salad surgery 3. lamb 4. close to the edge

[@DonHornsby]

A wonderful show. And what a great discussion on these magnificent albums. My list: 1. Close To The Edge 2. Brain Salad Surgery 3. Red 4. Lamb (bloated but has it's moments)

[@StS2712]

1) Brain, 2) Close, 3) Red, 4) Lamb

[@eximusic]

1. Lamb 2. Close to the Edge 3. Red 4. Brain Salad but love them all

[@TheProgCorner]

Four perfect pieces of evidence that there is, in fact, a God. No other explanation for these masterpieces.

[@nectarinedreams7208]

I think there may be some chemical explanations for these masterpieces, too. Particularly for the Genesis and Yes ones...

[@noneya237]

Yea there is god but he get boring after repetitive listens ..these alblums where I got them memorized I never need hear them again. I’d love see alblum wars on obscure 70s alblums vs same stuff over and over that there not masterpieces anymore to me. I heard them so many times I could vomit tbh. 😂 this is beginners prog. After time u need go harmonium ange bubu polyphony without introduction album islands pictures. Ramases space hymns. Cmu space cabaret. Fuzzy duck Kyrie eleson lists go on I want see album wars of obscure alblums it doesn’t sell its gd stupidity why it can’t be covered. Prog corner u need do album war on rare obscure 70s prog alblums I’d be there in heart beat

[@TheProgCorner]

@@noneya237 Sounds like a great idea.

[@noneya237]

@@TheProgCornerI get very defensive over 70s prog like this. So much other good obscure 70s prog goes unnoticed. When all prog channels are just covering same thing I can see at another channel why bother. I’m 25 percent of viewers who want see obscure stuff whine and complain over popular 70s albums. It like how many times must we discuss same stuff this stuff is not masterpiece material anymore its over saturated I heard it million times. Yes it good for decade I moved on. It like how marvel studios for last 10 years have made nonstop tv shows movies that I’m sick of it. Over saturation of anything is not good you need balance. I really hope you take my suggestions to heart I only complain get negative. I care I really do care. I trash talk popular stuff it’s all people go to they want be safe keep viewers. Most prog channels will sell out. Who cares about numbers it about content and balance and variety. You know what Scott your so passionate about everything you may start revolution having community wanting listen obscure prog albums. It has community begging Ken get albums in are obscure. If anyone can sell obscure stuff to public it you man. I know I gotten lil irate on some stuff stuff you done. It because I care. I want people explore out top 100 it’s safe prog albums of 70s. There river of other amazing things out there. You know I know obscure stuff you know it well to. Start a revolution man. You do review newer contemporary stuff u sell it well. I know you can sell obscure 70s stuff also if u did review one 70s obscure album week build from there hell yes i would subscribe and be member and pay for it in heartbeat. Peace

[@toddhill7483]

​@@TheProgCornertheologically correct Scot

[@sdrandazzo]

All of these are fantastic prog albums. I am guessing that the ITPS gentlemen will favor in this order (total votes), #1 - Yes -CTTE, King Crimson - #2 - Red, #3 - Genesis - Lamb Lies Down and #4 - ELP - Brain Salad Surgery. My personal favorite order would be #1 - Genesis - Lamb, #2 - King Crimson - Red, #3 - Yes - CTTE and then #4 - ELP - Brain Salad Surgery. Would be interesting to see an upcoming episode ranking the Peter Hammill sold albums from all of the ITPS gentlemen.

[@wolf1977]

Nice ranking, great minds think alike...✔

[@user-cj4df7vs7w]

Two of them don't like Peter Hammill at all.

[@asmallwhitedog0479]

The first concert I went to was ELP, 1974. Keith had a thing called "the stick" and he stroked it and flames came out. Carl had a drum set that rotated head over heels. They also had one of if not he first quad set ups and at the end there was this keyboard note that started in one speaker and went round the Cow Palace in Littlerock and got faster and faster. It was stunning.

[@yrlic]

the stick was used on Mass and the rotation speed test was at the end of Karn Evil 9.

[@socalltd]

Not to be the nerd in the comments but would like to add to yours, the speaker system was Quadraphonic and meant for some sounds to spin around. Ending of Karn evil was the sequenced part speeding up as a finally. The "stick" is a ribbon controller on the Moog to manually slide the sound from the synth.

[@dano1962]

I don't think Carl Palmer ever had a drum set that rotated head over heels. However Keith Emerson had a piano that rotated completely around at California Jam in 1974. Maybe your thinking of Buddy Rich or Tommy Lee (Motley Crue) for the rotating drums.

[@markmiwurdz2248]

@socalltd. I vaguely recall that at one show, the “pyrotechnic technicians” had overloaded the fireworks in Keith Emerson’s Ribbon Moog. During the gig, the thing went off, kind of “backfired” and burnt Keith’s hand. Not sure but I think Keith dispensed with the pyrotechnics after that. Stay safe and well.

[@socalltd]

@@markmiwurdz2248 Yeah, Kieth has said that he has cut, burned and blown fingernails off with some the stunts on tour.

[@mikewest1542]

Can’t wait for this , I have 3 of these albums!

[@mythoflogic]

It's pretty well documented that Mike used a Microfrets 6 string bass for The Lamb. From mixonline : "One of the most prominent instruments on the song is Mike Rutherford’s bass. He used a Micro Frets six-string bass that he remembered as “one of those basses that has tons of character, but it’s difficult to play. Not only did I find that the strings are closer together, but I also found that the scale length was much shorter.” He used a Marshall fuzz through an Acoustic amp to give his part that biting edge."

[@dan-ws2sf]

And the mighty Bill Bruford played on both Close to the Edge and Red😊

[@PeterBrown-mz4nv]

And played with Genesis for one tour.

[@dan-ws2sf]

@@PeterBrown-mz4nv yep, and thank you, finally somebody who knows almost as much about music as me😂

[@PeterBrown-mz4nv]

@@dan-ws2sf Are you a drummer? I am. Bill Bruford is my longtime idol.

[@dan-ws2sf]

@@PeterBrown-mz4nv I actually am, I hope I didn’t sound like an ass, I was joking around, basically it’s refreshing to hear someone appreciate who someone like Bruford is. Not enough people do. It’s worse trying to find people who appreciate the greatness of Barriemore Barlow😤

[@PeterBrown-mz4nv]

@@dan-ws2sf Love em both, and you sound great. I never saw Barriemore Barlow live. First time I saw Tull was A tour, right after he left.

[@johnallison2146]

1. Close To The Edge 2. The Lamb Lies Down 3. Brain Salad Century 4. Red Never listened to King Crimson much which is maybe a mistake on my part but had the privilege of seeing the other three on the tours of the albums in question. Great nights.

[@thelawnmowertapes]

This was the vinyl rotation 81'-83'. 16-18 year old impressions . So grateful to have these in those youthful formative years.

[@JCM-LedZeppelin-Stories]

Luis Nasser acknowledging his mistake on the song at Yes' show is pure Class. I read that comment last time he mentioned, never thought he would address it. My respect for you grows with every episode. This was a GREAT conversation. As an album Close to the Edge is the best here!

[@VincentBautista365]

Luis is my Mexican brother, from another Mother!

[@rikiwroteasongthud]

I watched this with the assumption that Close to the Edge would win in a landslide and I was right. Anyone who watches the channel knows that most of the Prog guys think its the greatest album ever. Anyone who knows Ken knows his favorite album is Brain Salad Surgery so no surprise there. I love this channel and these guys but maybe more competitive choices would have led to more suspense. Fore example why not substitute The Yes Album for Edge or Trilogy for Salad. Just food for thought. Always enjoy the banter and Luis!

[@misate8993]

1. Close To The Edge 2. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway 3. Red 4. Brain Salad Surgery

[@davidsimon2096]

1.BRAIN SALAD SURGERY 2.LAMB LIES DOWN 3.CLOSE TO THE EDGE 4.RED

[@user-vy7fp8np1l]

PS I also watched your video on The Savoy Brown Blues Band. I came across them via set of 4 CDs that were reissues of compilations called Blues Anytime that included 4 tracks by them, including the instrumental True Blue. My favourite blues group is The Bluesbreakers (primarily the period 1965-1971 plus a couple of 21st century albums) but Kim Simmons and his band certainly merit my attention, too. I didn't realise they'd released so many albums and continued to be active into the 21st century so thank you for that video discussion. I'll check out some of those albums for sure.

[@henrydebruijn2259]

But for now: 1) The Lamb ... 2) Red 3) Close to the Edge 4) Brain Salad ...

[@wolf1977]

Lamb - yes! Our rankings match - that must mean something...🤷‍♂

[@TABL3SIX]

1. Yes - Close To The Edge (Couldn't be anything else) 2. King Crimson - Red (I don't know how to explain it, but I love it.) 3. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (I do think it's a masterpiece, but it does in my mind, tends to drag on. That might be good for some.) 4. ELP - Brain Salad Surgery (I used to love this back in the day, but the first part before Karn Evil 9 just seems to plod along.)

[@michaelbenz8092]

Wow! A perfect birthday gift for me!

[@ericporter344]

Happy Birthday

[@garyjoyce2160]

Michael/. Happy/ HEALTHY 👍💯

[@logancollins7097]

Happy Birthday man!

[@christophercoles4401]

Happy Birthday! 🎈🎂

[@jaybee7890]

I love how Ken is so die hard ELP when honestly one else really is. I love his views on everything so I suffer his insufferable madness on that. I’ve never understood it. But hey! 31 flavors I guess.

[@TheBerndude]

Great episode. Hope Luis feels better.

[@lahloonatic]

Thank you !

[@jazzpunk]

You guys are amazing...what year was WHO'S NEXT? OK, I was in my teens & had this album...quickly, I thought '72, no earlier...but you guys, in unison & zero hesitation, say '71. BAM!

[@vagabond197979]

The best show on SOT. I never miss an episode.

[@ericporter344]

Thanks 👍

[@vagabond197979]

@ericporter344 I do wish Anthony was on here more. He definitely adds to the dynamic!

[@ericporter344]

@@vagabond197979 He’ll be back

[@curlessmania4708]

You guys did a great job with an EXTREMELY hard assignment, all of these records are amazing! Ugh ….if I had to pick…..ugh! 1. Lamb 2. Close to the edge. 3. Brain Salad 4. Red. That really hurt. Might be different tomorrow. As chuck said…begrudgingly like 3 times…..ha ha

[@colinerswell7490]

Great video and very hard to choose between all of them, but my list goes like this. Forth. Genesis Third. King Crimson Second. ELP First. Yes. All are excellent albums but for the reasons given by the panel, this is my order. Keep up the fantastic work that you put into this channel and thanks for entertaining me here in the UK 🇬🇧

[@robmlisanti]

Yes, ELP, Genesis and King Crimson is my ranking for this!! Great Show guys!!

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

First, thanks to all the folks on this show for taking one what is a difficult and almost impossible task. Highly enjoyable episode from The Prog Seat. Personally, the most difficult was ranking the bottom two as the top two were never in doubt. But the personal choice today follows: 4. Red - King Crimson 3. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - Genesis 2. Close To The Edge - Yes 1. Brain Salad Surgery Have mentioned before that saw Yes in concert on the TFTO tour play that entire album - as well as the entire TFTO album and that saw ELP on the tour behind Brain Salad Surgery. No doubt giving these two the top two spaces on the list. Interestingly, Close To The Edge may be the better overall album but the one that still is played the most is Brain Salad Surgery. Like Eric Porter is a guitar player drawn to guitars, my years of playing piano and keyboards personally lead to Brain Salad Surgery. Still playing some of Keith Emerson's music on the piano and like Chick mentioned that someone said - never seen anyone play the keyboards like Keith Emerson. Thanks again, gents.

[@ericporter344]

Thanks John, lucky you seeing the bands in their heyday!!!

[@user-vy7fp8np1l]

Hello there...or, as Scot Lade would say (well, shout), 'greetings and salutations'! Recently I watched the 1 hour 50 minute live stream on Gentle Giant partly because I'm a recent subscriber to Scot's channel but mainly because the subject is my favourite rock group. Then I watched the Desert Island Discs episode today. Thus I discovered your channel. This debate on 4 classic albums intrigued me. I'd prefer to substitute Octopus by Gentle Giant in place of Red but then I'm biased! Although I am old enough to have been aware of the original progressive groups of the 1970s, I only discovered them in 2002. Prior to that I only listened to classical music, mainly baroque and 20th century. As an inveterate snob, I assumed 'pop music' was far too shallow and insubstantial for me to waste my valuable time upon. However, our group (UNIT) had Cheung Yiu Munn in it, an 18 year old Hong Kong Chinese lad who was our flute and guitar player from 2002 to 2011. He found my musical snobbery deplorable and insisted I take notice of these ancient groups he loved (primarily Jethro Tull, ELP, Yes, Genesis and Dream Theatre). To cut a long story short, while I found some of that music interesting, even inspiring (especially Tull), I investigated further and managed to discover Colosseum, The Family, Manfred Mann's Earth Band and Gentle Giant by myself. The Family and Gentle Giant are, to date, the only groups for which I have in my collection every studio tracks they ever recorded. There are few tracks from Bandstand that only barely make the grade and most (but not all) of the tracks from the final 3 Giant albums are definitely below par yet still good enough (but only just) for me to retain in my collection. The advantage for me here is that my introduction to this music is devoid of any hint of nostalgia so it was all totally new to me. (As an aside, it's faintly ironic it took a Chinese teenager to introduce me to music from my own culture. I wonder though...how did an 18 year old Chinese lad become acquainted with numerous progressive rock groups from the 1970s?) Anyway, when I heard Octopus and Glass House for the first time (in 2003), I could not believe what I heard. I spent 3 or days listening to those 2 albums in order to try to comprehend all the different, disparate musical strands. Like The Family they utilised all manner of varied instruments but unlike The Family they mastered harmony, counterpoint and rhythmic complexity that forced me to admit not only classical musicians know how to compose and perform music that merited my attention - groovy! The progressive rock influence is apparent on a fair number of our own pieces although we do not possess the astonishing technical proficiency of any of these groups, especially not Gentle Giant, but I don't want this to appear as a thinkly disguised attempt to advertise our own group, so I'll stop here. I hope your channel increases in popularity and introduces more young people (and maybe not so young people) to progressive rock, especially the groups who are not so famous. Rock on!

[@nectarinedreams7208]

Now this is gonna be a war!

[@sdjk909]

1. Close to the Edge 2. Brain Salad 3. Lamb 4. Red

[@gokhanaya]

very nice, as always, folks.. thanks! they are so far apart albums from each other, very hard for me to favor one over the other and I think if you asked me the same question in 1994 or 2004 or 2014 I would give all different answers :)) I think at this moment I'm with 4. Red, 3. Brain Salad, 2. CTTE, 1. The Lamb The annoying choice of Providence in Red has been shared anonymously. Just as Ken said, after hearing many other (and much better!) candidates from The Great Deceiver and other box set material I don't understand that choice either. To me it marres the album BUT the general question with these improvisations on the albums has been clearly answered by Fripp in several of the booklets that come with these CD's and CD box sets: he says they just didn't have enough written material to wrap up a 1,5 hour show (and other than the encore piece "21st Century..", they didn't want to play the previous stuff).. so, they improvised their asses off :)) I think they were also artistically into improvising as in the "sudden composing" technique.. but yes, the beautiful Doctor Diamond comes to mind, plus that long piece that when announcing it Fripp says they were still working on, "A Voyage to the Center of the Cosmos"... I could never understand why they didn't just sit down and made proper arrangements on them.. David Cross problems, maybe? :) Anyway... great show!

[@donaldanderson6604]

Totally agree about Karn Evil 9. Benny the Bouncer actually works as a little comic relief before the big event. The Brain Salad Surgery track also contains a veiled attack on the British music press. The New Musical Express aka NME hated prog so the line We made it for our enemy is spot on. As Gabriel sings on Lamb, If you think that it's pretentious you've been taken for a ride. There was a radio station in the UK that used to play KE9 straight through.

[@markmiwurdz2248]

@donaldanderson6604. When ELP released “Brain Salad Surgery” the NME of the day would you believe issued a free 45rpm flexi - disc including a song called “Brain Salad Surgery”! Greg Lake sings the line “We made it for our enemy” (NME). Said song didn’t appear on the original vinyl album, but I think was included as a bonus track on the CD version some years later. The NME actually dubbed ELP as “Cumbersome, Fake and Trauma” in their hateful attitude to prog. Stay safe and well.

[@goforthpatrick]

Hey Pete. After listening to this I have an episode idea: Reducing a double album to a single album and in what song order. Albums to consider: TLLDOB, The Wall, The White Album, Quadrophenia and Physical Graffiti. What do you think? I know most are concepts records and tell a story, but if they were in a language we couldn't understand, which songs have the most musical integrity and how could they be ordered to create the best flow for a stronger album than they are now.

[@bradleystone2623]

Charles, spot on!!

[@michaelbenz8092]

Close to the Edge The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Brain Salad Surgery Red

[@DaveEllis13]

Thanks for a great episode guys. For me: 1. Close To The Edge 2. Red 3. Brain Salad Surgery 4. Lamb Lies Down On Broadway However, if I had to choose one song from the four, it would be Starless ☺️

[@ulfskjol]

Great episode! My ranking would be 1. Close to the edge 2. The lamb 3. Brain Salad 4. Red

[@canterburyscene]

Ken is right about ELP being the first to use synthesizer in such a prominent way. And yes, the debut pre-dates "Who's Next" by 9 months, and Townshend's VCS-3 actually 'played' a Lowery organ, so the sounds you hear aren't actually synthesizer. Of course, The Beatles' use of the Moog on "Abbey Road" pre-dates of all of this, but it can be argued it was used in a decorative manner rather than as a central feature of their sound and main solo instrument.

[@BretAHart]

Very easy for me. I'm not a Genesis fan, they never clicked in my brain. Same with King Crimson. So, my ranking is: 4. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 3. King Crimson - Red 2. Yes - Close to the Edge 1. ELP - Brain Salad Surgery

[@visualizeprog2874]

Well, this should be a knock-down, drag out steel cage match of a debate! For me, I automatically know what first place is (Yes. The band that got me into prog), and what fourth place is (KC. Just not a fan in general, and even more so with this particular album). But the two middle spots are up for grabs. The mighty ELP vs. one of Genesis best? Have to really think that one through.

[@visualizeprog2874]

OK. Good episode, and not as contentious as the "Topographic Oceans" a couple week back.

[@WarhawkBeyond2040]

When i think of classic albums from the prog rock genre, more often than not, the four that always come up the most is these ones and to choose between them was a pretty easy one for me but any one of these can easily be a number one because they're so good. This was such an enjoyable listening experience hearing everyone's thoughts because they are near enough the same as mine. 1. King Crimson - Red Even though Larks' Tongues In Aspic is my all time favourite King Crimson album, i won't deny the greatness and the respect Red commands. After the release of violinist David Cross, the band morphed into a power trio and the music they created delivered a hell of a punch, it's dark, heavy, brooding and hard hitting. Bill Bruford has never sounded better drumming wise than he does on Red, John Wetton musicially and vocally is on top form with his smokey vocals and gnarly bass work. Robert Fripp plays like a savage animal with his crunchy guitar playing. The title track kicks ass, 'Fallen Angel' is gorgeous, 'One More Nightmare' is a real burner and 'Starless' is a 12 minute plus epic which is the perfect closer. For me, it is one of the greatest songs ever written in the history of prog. 'Providence' for me is the weakest track and is the odd one out, it is mostly a live violin improvisation by David Cross and although i enjoyed it for what it is, i kind of feel it would have fit in better with the USA live recording. It would have been interesting to hear what Red would have sounded like with Cross's violin contributions and i do miss him on here but I wouldn't change anything about Red. It is the perfect King Crimson album or as close to perfection. 2. Yes - Close To The Edge For most of this year, i have been delving more and more into the catalogue of Yes, Close To The Edge is one of the band's most legendary albums. This album only features 3 songs but look at what those 3 songs are. The title track is 18 plus minutes and is one of the most iconic songs ever recorded, the same for 'You And I', an absolute classic and 'Siberian Khatru' is one of Jon Anderson's finest vocal performances. Everyone is on top form, Squire with his dirty bass playing, Howe burns it up on guitars, Wakeman has a massive presence on keyboards and Bruford is a beast behind the kit who delivers some of his best drumming. Close To The Edge would mark the final appearance of Bill Bruford as a Yes member as he would leave to join King Crimson but he really shines on this one and goes out with a bang. A true Yes masterpiece 3. ELP - Brain Salad Surgery This album is a dear favourite of my dad's and with good reason, for me when ELP have their heads on straight, there are very few bands who can touch them in the musical department and this is a fine example of three world class musicians showcased at the peak of their creativity. Emerson is a machine on the keyboards, Lake is on top form both musically and vocally on vocals, guitars and bass, Palmer plays like a machine on the drums. 'Jerusalem' is a such a gorgeous hymn with classy vocals from Lake and brilliant organ playing from Emerson, 'Still You Turn Me On' is a lovely vocal showcase for Lake, 'Benny The Bouncer' is a funny comical track showcasing the band's comedic side. Toccata is a great instrumental and 'Karn Evil' which is made up of 4 movements is the best piece of the entire album and is so legendary. If there was ever an album that is worthy of being the greatest ELP album of all time, Brain Salad Surgery could very well be the one. 4. Genesis - The Lamb That Lies Down On Broadway If there was ever an album that was a great representation of the band's classic lineup at their peak, it could be this one. Is this album a bit too long? Yes it is. Is the music good? I would say it is excellent. I think everyone is on top musical, 'Carpet Crawlers', 'Hairless Heart' 'Chamber Of 32 Doors' are Genesis classics. I couldn't agree more, Rutherford is kicking ass on the bass, Collins always sounds great on drums, Hackett is burning on guitars, Banks creates lots of gorgeous keyboard soundscapes and Gabriel vocally has never sounded better. This was definitely the band's finest hour as they were really starting to hit their stride, sadly this would mark the final appearance of Peter Gabriel as he would leave the band to start his solo career but his singing contributions are second to none and we would never see this classic lineup back together again but the magic they created will be remembered as their ultimate masterpiece. Brilliant show as always guys and already pumped for the next one. Keep up the good work

[@bradstensland506]

My four: #4.) Red, as I'm not as big of a KC fan as I probably should be. I love Wetton's voice and bass playing. #3.) ELP very well performed in all aspects, but just a touch noodly for me in parts(Benny the Bouncer is a frikking AWESOME song!!!). #2.) Yes, I was in a Yes tribute and we hit upon all of these songs, and Chris is the penultimate prog basser. However, #1.) Lamb, I was ALSO in a Genesis(Peter Gabriel albums plus Trick) tribute. I have massive appreciation at the skill and composition power of Micheal Rutherford. He is seriously underappreciated. (obviously I'm a bass player, but I had to learn keyboards for the bass pedal parts, fortunately, I had the Ric double-neck in red.) The album itself was just immaculate. I know some fans mention the length of the songs, or it drags, or it's not relevant(something like the quirkiness of Colony, or bouncyness of It), however, that's the VERY essence of Progressive music, I do believe if you go into the mind of Rael throughout and feel what he's going through, the music accompanies perfect. I'd have loved to have seen the scrapped movie idea come to fruition. Next time you guys get an "Album War", please include Gentle Giant...I know, not as popular, but most likely most any album by GG would be my #1!!!

[@michaelvandiver2475]

Would you guys consider doing album wars of the Rush prog classics - 2112, FTK, Hemispheres, Caress of Steel? Please, please! Would LOVE to hear all of your opinions and insights. Assuming all of you are big Rush fans...not sure about Ken...he's tough to figure out.

[@lukaf2393]

Although I love those albums my personal contest would be : Foxtrot vs Fragile vs In the court of King vs ELP 😊 But "if I have" : 1) The lamb 2) Close to the edge 3) Brain 4) Red

[@Aldo-mg3wr]

Close/Brain/Lamb/Red. Also hopefully in the future you’ll have one of the Moody Blues seven classic albums included.

[@bennyscomin]

The album "Monkey Business" from John Wetton and Richard Palmer-James contains a properly arranged and recorded version of "Dr. Diamond" featuring brilliant use of snippets from the live "DD" on "The Great Deceiver" box set.......

[@robertmac9057]

1. Brain Salad Surgery 2. Close to the Edge 3. Red 4. Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

[@trainguy7276]

This has to be the most brutal Album War ever. Good fucking grief. For me: 1. King Crimson - Red 2. ELP - Brain Salad Surgery 3. Yes - Close To The Edge 4. Genesis - Lamb Lies Down On Broadway Cant wait til Tuesday!

[@jackpittens796]

All great albums so this is very much personal preference. My preferences are: 1) Red 2) Brain Salad Surgery 3) Close to the Edge 4) The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

[@sabinoabdala5685]

4 incredible albums!! It's hard to rank them because they are all classics. The sentimental factor led me to put Genesis' fiinal album with P.Gabriel first because it is a legacy from my older brother and I have listened to it since I was a child. Although I didn't understand much due to its complexity, I was fascinated listening to the music and looking at the vinyl. 1- Genesis 2- Yes 3- King Crimson 4- ELP

[@JoelPrice253]

1. Close to the Edge (certainly) 2. Brain Salad Surgery 3. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (maybe) 4. Red (probably)

[@jacekcel36]

I'm torn here, because KE9. Too good albums to rate about play order. All are legendary.

[@eduardofanghanel3625]

1. Close 2. Brain 3. Red 4. The Lamb Masterpieces all of them, but I would have replaced Foxtrot or Selling instead of Lamb.

[@jacekcel36]

I'd replaced with Hackett's Tokyo Tapes, peace on earth. And it really is better.

[@michaelvandiver2475]

All of these records are certified classics...however my favorite is Lamb by far. Bigger fan of Genesis compared to Yes, KC...least fav is ELP. Lamb gets criticized for side 4 doldrums, but Colony of Slipperman is on side 4 and it's one of my all time fav songs by them...Phil Collins drumming is absolutely sublime on Colony and the whole record in general. Love it!

[@CarnorJast1138]

Lamb, Close, Red, Brain. My picks.

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

1. Close to the edge 2. Brain salad surgery 3. Red 4. Lamb

[@stevewhiteside4525]

Monday 1. Close to the Edge Tuesday 1. Lamb Wednesday 1. BSS Thursday 1. Red Friday went out Saturday 1. Rain Dogs Sunday 1. After The Goldrush

[@sljulio]

4. King Crimson Red , just never the biggest Crimson fan but appreciated them 3. Lamb lies Down, longggg ! 2. Brain Salad ,always loved it Jerusalem gives me a spiritual feeling every time I hear it ! 1. Close to the Edge, in my 5 favorite albums of any genre a masterpiece 👍

[@terryjohnson5275]

Have to agree with Ken's take on Benny the Bouncer - when Shakespeare wrote ius tragedies he'd slip in a bit of comic relief before the big dramatic ending and for me that's excatly what Benny the Bouncer is there for. In terms of listing my heart has Brain Salad Surgery at 1 but my head has Close to the Edge so I'm placing em equal first. Then Red - due to Providence, then in 4th The Lamb because while I love Genesis , I love Yes, ELP and King Crimson more, and over the years people have always bigged up Genesis over the others so I've always put them last.

[@justinburke2890]

1. Close to the Edge 2. The Lamb 3. Brain Salad Surgery (2 & 3 could flop) I first had BSS at 2 4. Red (it hurts putting an album with Starless at 4th but I like the other 3 just a bit better)

[@vorhangauf...]

Brain & Red have the best "showdowns".🤩 It's very difficult. 1. Red 2. Close 3. Lamb 4. Brain

[@who6489]

This might be the toughest one for me.... UGH! 4. RED. Only because I've had the least amount of time with this one. Got into KC later in life. It's pretty much a 3 way tie now... 3. The LAMB. I know a lot of people aren't fans of the GENESIS remix/remasters from 2008 (the only ones available now. I was smart enough to keep the originals), but I love them . The CD/DVD 5.1 mixes are fantastic. I love how on The LAMB 5.1 they included the original slide show that was used during the tour!, as I was only 5, and obviously didn't see them. ;-) The only knock is that some of the interludes between songs are not really needed, like Waiting Room and the intro to Slippermen. 2. BRAIN SALAD SURGERY. Love it from start to finish. Yes, I'm one of the few that likes Benny The Bouncer. The only thing I don't like is the weird slow fade up in Jerusalem. I always forget and have to turn the volume down when the second verse comes in. Also the 5.1 mix that came out years ago on DVD-A could have been a little better. 1. CLOSE To The EDGE. You know when someone has made a great album, when the band plays the whole thing live, a lot, over the years. And, like Pete, Siberian Khatru just might be my favorite YES song ever..... I think. I don't have the Steven Wilson/ 5.1 remix yet, but it's in my Amazon cart ;-)

[@johncalo5856]

Referencing Ken talking about Palmer possibly using synth drums for the first time....Billy Cobham may have beat him out by a few weeks or months with Spectrum. Release dates were very close (Spectrum released in October, BSS in December) but I guess it depends on how you count (record dates?).

[@alfietomkins7829]

I love Close to the edge The lamb lies down on Broadway Red But unfortunately I have never taken to Brain Salad surgery. I've tried (and I know I'm in a minority here, but this album just doesn't connect with me at all) I know I'm wrong. The other three are excellent albums. Looking forward to this episode

[@markoliver630]

Close,Brain,Lamb,Red The Yes vs. E.L.P. Caused my Brain to freeze. I love both groups so much ! I don’t include today’s Yes in that statement.

[@Yarin4ever]

1. Close to the Edge 2. Red 3. The Lamb Lies Down *gap* 4. Brain Salad Surgery (although magnificent)

[@knightvisioniixv]

I think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that, amongst progressive rock fans, Close to the Edge is the projected 'winner' of this bunch. Many find it to be a bona fide classic. No argument from me on that part. I've long had a special attachment to Emerson, Lake & Palmer's music that has not lessened one iota. Very personal. Brain Salad Surgery is titanic in both sound and scope. I am anticipating many to speak disparagingly of "Benny the Bouncer"; such is the wont of many a prog fan. Me? I have always seen this and "Still... You Turn Me On" as a pair of sorts. These two tunes heard back-to-back were meant to give listeners a few minutes to take a breather. Sometimes these moments are needed. I also love both Emerson's and Palmer's work on "Benny." Red is a searing beast. What more is there to really say? (Btw, I have never had a problem with "Providence.") Of these four, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway was the easiest for me to rank - it places last by way of the fact that it is the one I find the urge to pull out the least often these days. It's still a fantastic album with great music and an interesting concept to boot. My ranking (sorry not sorry): 1. Red/Brain Salad Surgery/Close to the Edge 2. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 😜 (P.S. I concur wholeheartedly with the commenter who mentioned Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound. I'm not sure what I would have done if either of those albums had been included.)

[@askoholli9306]

Yeah, among the other, er, improvisational pieces of the 1972-74 KC lineup, I don't think "Providence" sticks out in any negative way. Red is a masterpiece of a record, plain and simple!

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

Yeah that would have changed the game a little bit. But I would still have to give close to the edge the number one slot cuz it's just a fantastic album. one of my all-time favorites still

[@wolf1977]

You're probably correct about Yes 'winning' this shootout (based on prior SoT commentary). Red = "searing beast"? Absolutely! Still, Lamb for my top spot (by quite a bit actually, even though I agree it's not the band's best album). And ELP easily my #4 spot - it was just a matter of juggling KC/Yes for #2/#3

[@knightvisioniixv]

Having paid close attention to the ItPS regulars for quite some time, and depending on who does/does not show up for the episode to get their lists counted, here are my guesses for three specific individuals: One will go with ELP as tops, one will go with Genesis as tops, and one - even though he enjoys Close to the Edge - is most likely to go with either KC or Genesis as tops. I won't mention names. 😉 The rest (or most of the ones left) are probably going to go with Yes. Thinking about it even more, when we consider the heft of the albums featured, I'd be somewhat surprised if this one is not a full house (or very close to it.) I do love The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway; at one point, it was actually my second favorite Genesis album. Over the years, other albums unexpectedly grew on me big time, and eventually bumped The Lamb down a few spots. I just happen to reach for those other (four or so) Genesis albums more frequently. @@wolf1977

[@rayr4320]

Louie got called on children of the corn. LOL.

[@joshsosa]

1- Brain Salad Surgery/ ELP 2- Close to the edge/ Yes 3- Red/ King Crimson 4- The Lamb lies down on Broadway/ Genesis

[@paulkobler8049]

Steve Walsh was an outstanding singer and keyboard player. American Prog rocker.

[@jacekcel36]

He is, he is.

[@powrnap]

Tough because ELP as a band are easily in 4th place for me but this is my favorite album from them. Whereas Yes is my favorite but I prefer their prior 2 albums a bit more; the same with Genesis. I’ll go: Red, Close to the Edge, Brain Salad, Lamb. (However, all are landmark albums of course.)

[@FireMoon42]

The Beatles used a synth on 4 songs on Abbey Road.. She's So Heavy and Maxwell's Silver Hammer are two.

[@paulbrookes413]

Yes, if only The Beatles had stayed together, they might've become a good band 😂

[@fitterstoke45]

P.S. Had the Genesis choice been Selling England, that might have trounced Close To The Edge. But it wasn't, so Close To The Edge it is.

[@HockeyDudeJames2]

1) Red 2) Lamb 3) Close, #1 as far as the music is concerned. Jon Anderson for me personally...is a tough listen! 4) Brain. If it were Tarkus! ELP would easily be #1. Though Karn evil #9 is the most amazing acheivement out of all the pieces on these albums( imo).

[@visualizeprog2874]

Ken. It has been much disputed what was the first use of a synthesizer on a rock record. The Bob Moog Foundation sites The Doors "Strange Days" as the first use, and that was in Sept. 1967. But that same year The Monkees used an early Moog on the songs "Daily Nightly" and "Star Collector", and Mickey Dolenz can even be seen playing it in an episode of their TV show, though the synth is basically just making spacy, psychedelic noises and not anything very melodic or musical. Supposedly those Monkees songs were recorded first, but released two months after the Doors record....But then also in '67 was the less-known psych album "Cosmic Sounds" by The Zodiac, which also had an early Moog played by keyboardist Paul Beaver, and their album was released May '67, which would pre-date The Monkees...But no matter which one came first in 67, ELP was not the first to record with a synth.

[@lasercd7851]

Were they the first to tour with one?

[@visualizeprog2874]

@@lasercd7851 That's an excellent question and one I have to brush up on myself. According to a few sources Mother Mallard, said to be the first all synth ensemble, was the first to play synths live on stage between '66 and '68 - but that's not really in a rock band. But Emerson seems to indeed be the first in a rock band, with The Nice in 1969. One source says that Manfred Mann was using a Moog live very early, too, before they caught on with other bands.

[@toddhill7483]

1 Red 2 Close to the Edge 3 Brain Salad Surgery 4 Lamb

[@robertthompson3239]

Lamb, BSS, CTE and Red. Would love to see where Thick as a Brick would fare in this discussion

[@enjois5464]

diddnt the beatles use synthesisers on abbey road in 1969 ?

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

1. Close 2. Red 3.Brain 4. Lamb

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

Almost matched with Grant We're definitely right on the first and the last.

[@nectarinedreams7208]

@@truckerkevthepaidtourist You're definitely wrong on the last. I pity your ears!

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

@@nectarinedreams7208 maybe for you pal not for me Not a big fan of that album many people I noticed a commenting already are not either That would be different if it was Foxtrot or trespass that would definitely change the list around big time. So you could pity whoever the hell you want I can care less. So apparently you have to pity Mr Grant to oh well

[@daveycretin664]

That’s my order too, Grant! Great minds think alike. Except for the album ranking show we did earlier tonight. Totally the opposite of these four records! 😉

[@logancollins7097]

1. Crimson 2. Yes 3. Genesis 4. ELP All classics at the end of the day

[@scottmcrae3355]

Great episode guys! 1. Lamb 2. Edge 3. Red 4. Salad

[@MrCecilnoise]

Malort! oh man so awful, fellow Chicagoans know lol tough tough list fellas. I guess I have to do this too. 4) Genesis- Lamb; 3) King Crimson - Red; 2) ELP - Brain Salad Surgery; 1) Yes - Close To The Edge. for me 2 & 3 could change, but I have more history with the ELP.

[@jimmypage2843]

George which one are you going to eviscerate this time? 😂 I'd love to see someone continue what I consider a now great tagline of "that's got nothing to do with me, I don't like it" each week. 😂 Great job by Luís with the callback last time. 🤘🏼 For the record: 1. Close to the Edge (possibly tied with SFAM for my all-time favorite album) 2. Red (their best along with Discipline) 3. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (not my favorite and a bit overrated) 4. Brain Salad Surgery (sorry Old Man Prog 👴🏻)

[@georgelamie7001]

Would I do that? 😁

[@jimmypage2843]

Maybe, just maybe. 😂

[@garyjoyce2160]

GEORGE knows !!!!👍💯

[@visualizeprog2874]

@jimmypage2843 - It would actually be interesting to see something more modern (but also highly-rated) like Dream Theater "SFAM" in the mix. Would the panel just default to the old classics, or would some newer shake things up a bit?

[@jimmypage2843]

Love it George! You perfectly mirrored my list and described exactly how I feel about the Lamb and BSS. Pretty sure I've heard this phrase great minds think alike before. 🍺