In the Prog Seat: The Albums Right After the Split- Genesis & Steve Hackett

Join the In the Prog Seat crew for a discussion of 'the albums after the split-who did it better?' between Genesis 'And Then There Were Three' and Steve Hackett Please Don't Touch'. #genesis #stevehackett
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[@stephenhaswell5823]

Great show again guys. Please Don't Touch is my favourite Hackett album and my favourite solo album by any ex Genesis member. I love the brave (and dare I say progressive) choices Steve makes on this album. ATTWT sounds like a band trying too hard to me and the songs sound too rushed with over bright production. What shouldn't be forgotten though, as Steven alluded to, is that the UK chart success of Follow You, Follow Me may well have saved the band's career whatever we think of the direction they then took. I'm with Ken, Steve Hackett is really the soul of Genesis. The quirkiness on tracks such as Carry On Up The Vicarage really comes from Hackett's love of British Music Hall. Around the time of this album he said one of his top 10 favourite songs was "Don't Put Your Daughter on the Stage Mrs Worthington" by Noel Coward.

[@rk41gator]

"Down And Out' is amazing.

[@TheProgCorner]

Love them both but Please Don’t Touch is really special to me!!!

[@MackeyWilliams]

Down and Out, Burning Rope and Deep in the Motherlode are standout tracks on ATTWT. Surprised none of the guys went to bat for these tracks when Ken asked for the highlights.

[@SJHUE]

Agreed! Those three plus `Undertow` are my favourite four tracks.

[@wolf1977]

Strong tracks, "Many Too Many" gets me too

[@SJHUE]

@@wolf1977 Completes my top 5 from that album! 'Many Too Many' is very atmospheric

[@Driver2616]

The Lady Lies is also top quality Prog…

[@alexhamilton4084]

Have any of you seen the video on KZbin with Steve and Richie doing “How Can I”? The love in Steve’s eyes for Richie is amazing. 😊

[@andycrandall1361]

Man Im going to check that out...

[@wolftree3948]

favorite Steve Hackett album and one of my favorite albums of all time, it connects on a deeper level more than any of his first 4 solo albums, other than 1 song with the female vocal it is largely perfect

[@ian.t]

I actually love that there is such an accomplished female fronted song on this album. It's a surprise at first, but after repeatedly listenings sits perfectly, between the misguided optimism of "Narnia" and the heartbroken disillusion of "Icarus Ascending." It separates the two main vocalists and sides.

[@ericporter344]

Missed being on with you guys tonight. I love both albums, but I give the nod to Hackett. A bit more eclectic, but overall I have listened to Please Don’t Touch more. Ken…you were brilliant! 😊

[@SJHUE]

And Then There Were Three is my choice here. I know some people aren`t keen on some of the ballads but I don`t think Genesis ever made a more powerful ballad than `Undertow`. I also find `Many Too Many` very atmospheric with lovely guitar work.

[@JohnMacRae23]

You guys are really getting some miles out of And Then There Were Three... but great show as always. I guess I disagree with most of the panel... Please Don't Touch is a MASTERPIECE and I wouldn't change a note, the variety and diff singers somehow works perfectly for me. And ATTWT is a gem as well... I don''t mind Steve missing (don't really feel it was that much of a step down from the previous lps). It's mostly Banks writing that I like on it, but I even like Follow You Follow Me (a beautiful ballad). It's got sort of a Cinematic vibe that other albums did not have. Maybe i'm just a biased fan.

[@walt686868]

You said more in this short review than the four of them said in this video. I agree, both albums are excellent.

[@JCM-LedZeppelin-Stories]

Thank you sir! DOWN and OUT is a masterpiece on its own. ATTWT is a fantastic record and the one got me hooked on Genesis. I really like this channel but yes...they are probably thinking about rating. Sounds like bar conversations lol.

[@walt686868]

@@JCM-LedZeppelin-Stories yup, bar conversation…well put

[@lukenettle492]

Both are great albums. The song Please Don't Touch was actually offered to Genesis when Hackett was still in the band. Please Don't Touch features a lot of great artists like Steve Walsh and Ritchie Havens. It's a very deep, enjoyable album. ATTW3 is also excellent. Genesis was still progressive, but putting it into a more concise form. For it being Mike Rutherford's first album as lead guitarist, he did well overall. This album also has some of Phil's best drumming (Down and Out, The Lady Lies, Deep in the Motherlode, etc.), and Tony's keys are as good as ever. I like that each song on the album seems to tell some kind of story.

[@tamaspolyak5564]

Please Don't Touch was Steve's idea for Wind And Wuthering, but the band (khm, Tony) chose Phil's Wot Gorilla.

[@herrdwabash]

Really love the Steven Wilson remix of 'Please Don't Touch.'

[@keithf_]

Hey what a great idea this was for a discussion. For me I prefer Hackett's 'Please Don't Touch', for the reasons many of you say ... that it's high points elevate it above 'And Then There Were Three'. Yep 'Hoping Love Will Last' is a fantastic sung, beautifully sung by Randy Crawford, but ... it's just not a Genesis song, and that's why the Genesis guys rejected it for the great 'Wind and Wuthering album. And for the end of Side 1 of WAW it was a choice of Hackett's 'Please Don't Touch or 'Banks' 'Wot Gorilla'. For me, Banks getting his way AGAIN was wrong ! One last comment ... Watching and listening to you all I imagined you being the five different vocalists that sang on 'Please Don't Touch'. OK yes I know there were only 4 vocalists on that album, but my maths degree was attained many decades ago and doing sums ain't my forte no more LOL !

[@lasercd7851]

Apologies to Pete Hicks. Last night I had a case of the olds and referred to him as John Hicks. I had the great American jazz pianist on my brain.

[@ian.t]

I'm astounded. "Please Don't Touch!" is a top 5 album for me, of everything, ever. What it attempts to do, and what it achieves, is huge, but that's beside the point of the unfolding musical journey it can take the listener on. It runs deep in its lyricism, poetry, and magic. Many of the elements are ones that Steve Hackett returns to throughout his career. This is him finding his own striking musical voice. Ken Golden is so on the money. A work of art.

[@pamnorris8954]

Ken I agree with you all the time! Steve Hackett is my favorite guitarist as well. I bought both of these albums when they came out. I played ATTWT once. I think I gave it away to one of my friends. Mind you this is after seeing Genesis in 76 and 77 at 16 and 17 yrs old. My favorite band! But I played PDT over and over. I like the diversity of the tracks. Some good ones to sing along with and some to rock out to. Genesis without Steve Hackett is not my beloved Genesis. But I do love Steve Hackett and appreciate both his solo works and that he is still performing the great era of Genesis music for fans.

[@lasercd7851]

Great minds think alike. 😉

[@NigelSmith66]

Nice to see some relative love for ATTWT. It was my introduction to Genesis and I will always have a soft spot for it. For me it is the last great Genesis album, although I like some of the 1980s and 1990s material too. Artistically, Follow You Follow Me sticks out like a sore thumb and should never have been on the album. I believe that David Hentschel thought much the same. However, including the track was a commercial success of course. It's not a great track but is far superior to the likes of Invisible Touch or I Can't Dance. I don't own Please Don't Touch but have listened to it 3 or 4 times on Spotify. It hasn't yet grabbed me. On the other hand, Steve's following album - Spectral Mornings - is a masterpiece. ATTWT came out in 1978 and I will strongly argue that it has far more in common with Selling England By The Pound - which came out 5 years earlier - than with the "Shapes" album - which came out 5 years later.

[@kamranmalik8546]

Both are terrific albums, personally I like …And Then There Were Three

[@rk41gator]

Randy Crawford has some fine jazz and R&B albums.

[@ianwhite6812]

Totally agree, Guys. If it had been Voyage against TTWT - Voyage by many orders of magnitude!

[@ejc636]

Fantastic as usual. Love the channel here in the uk

[@alencar5420]

Down and Out! Fantastic and It’s in another level as Duke Suite and Smallcreep’s Day. ✌️

[@ron6927]

Great discussion. Liked Steven's take of "And then there was one". Definitely the Genesis album for me, has always been my 2nd favourite (behind Seconds Out) as it was the first Genesis album i heard, and may not have paid it much attention if not for Follow You.. and seeing it on Top Of The Pops at a young age. Think that song often gets a kicking it doesn't really deserve.

[@wolf1977]

Seconds Out was also an early Genesis exposure for me too. Totally hooked me

[@ron6927]

@@wolf1977 was initially fascinated by the cover of Seconds Out. Sister's boyfriend had left it at our house and it sat there tempting me for long enough before i heard it.

[@gaznathemoon1128]

....And Then There Were Three for me..Follow you was the first song I ever heard from Genesis, and absolutely loved it. I feel the same way Steven does about Carry on up the Vicarage.

[@jazzydog5635]

Love both these albums. I had just been introduced to Genesis by a friend in 1977 so my first live experience of Genesis was the tour of this album (Knebworth 78, UK). For me it is a transition album. At the start it still touches Trick of the tail/Wind and Wuthering era with tracks like Undertow but by the end with Follow you /Follow me, we are in the shorter song, Duke and beyond era. (Always, a tinge of regret I missed out on seeing the Gabriel/Hackett live years). 'Please don't touch' for me is Steve standing away from his Genesis past. I love the ideas he explored here but loved even more the identity he found on the next 2 albums. On Steve's first solo tour in the UK (Liverpool 79, UK) , he opened with Land of a Thousand Autumns going into Please don't Touch. Some moments of live music are so powerful that they are etched into your mind forever. That is one of them for me. Thank you for the Genesis Chicago live reference. I have added that to the collection, it sounds great.

[@curlessmania4708]

Great discussion guys! I thought Chad really nailed it overall, and Chuck is right on it, the bootleg From the Mouth of the Monster from Chicago in 78 has killer versions of the And then there were three songs, gives them much more life, I love that concert. Please don’t touch has its moments like Ken pointed out but it hasn’t aged as well as Voyage of the Alcolyte and Spectral Mornings which, as you guys pointed out, are better Hackett records. Really enjoyed this one, I like this after the split theme.

[@donaldanderson6604]

Ritchie Havens opened for Genesis when they played Earl's Court in 77. Steve's last London show with the band. I was blown away by his set, although not everyone in the audience was as happy as I was. Steve consoled Havens and that was the seed of his appearance on PDT. I think Steve deliberately didn't try to make VOTA part 2. I think Havens performance is a good enough reason to buy PDT. Agree about the lack of Starmer in the studio. For the record, Rutherford played bass because Anthony Phillips was a better guitar player.

[@Ursulauu]

'The Lady Lies' :- THAT song is the one song off ATTWT that is better and probably is the best 3 man Genesis song out there. Although like others have said, Steve also has some very good tracks. Enjoying these podcasts guys...🙂

[@davidsimon2096]

Interesting discussion guys .I must admit I am genuinely surprised most of you went for ATTWT.I remember when it came out the general consensus among fans and critics alike was that it was a real letdown after the brilliant Trick Of The Tail and Wind and Wuthering. I personally think it is a bit bland as well and I feel Genesis were really treading water with that album. I am fairly sure it was Steve Hackett's idea to make an album as eclectic as possible and I personally love it. I actually think it flows beautifully -for instance I love the way "Racing in A" suddenly changes from a rock song to a classical piece which then leads on to the completely acoustic "Kim". I have also always been blown away by the way that absolutely gorgeous "Hoping Love Will Last" morphs into "Land of a Thousand Autumns" which leads directly into the absolute killer Title track. I even love "Carry On Up The Vicarage"-it's so quirky and energetic. The opening track "Narnia" is of course an absolute classic made even more so by Steve Walsh's vocals. For me there is no contest between the two. Steve Hackett wins by a massive margin .I agree that for him he would start to peak with Spectral Mornings and Defector but "Please Don't Touch" has always been a favourite of mine.

[@ian.t]

David, I'm so pleased that someone else hears what I hear in "Please Don't Touch!" It's still stunning, after all this time.

[@jimhawkes]

Great show as ever.. not hugely familiar with either of these albums, but giving them a spin I have to agree with the majority on this one.

[@ivanfortuny2244]

Great show both albums are good.

[@terryjohnson5275]

Chad hit the nail on the head when he said each album misses the input from the other, and both miss some opportunities to be even better - Geneasis obviously in not having Hackett - or even Darryl Stuermer or someone similar as he wasnt yet in the frame for the guitarist position - and Hackett for sequencing the album with Vicarage assecond track and not adding one or two more guitar solos to a cople of tracks. Hand on heart I'd have to go with Steve Hackett's Please Dont Touch. In the UK Follow You Follow Me was a big hit single, it got Genesis on the TV and afterwards there were various other tv appearances, such as the documentary when they played at Knebworth, so for a prog fan it was a good time, however for the album itself, apart from the single and The Lady Lies ( as that was featured in the Knewborth documentary) I cant recall any of the songs - when I hear them they're ok, like Burning Rope and Deep in the Motherlode. Its a good album but could have been and should have been, a great album. I can listen to both albums all the way through but if when Steven Wilson remixed Please Dont Touch Carry on Up The Vicarage should have the vocals removed as, as Steven said , the music underneath is quite good -as it is it sort of reminds me a bit of Rick Wakeman's I'm so straight I'm a weirdo. I rather like Hoping Love Will Last, love the instrumental break at around 2:20 - note Randy Crawford went on to sing on the Crusaders' Street LIfe but at this time wasnt that well known - and again the music underneath the vocals is very nice. I agree that Richie Havens has a Gabrielesque quality to his vocals - although I do think the last minute of Icarus Ascending should have had a searing Hackett signature guitar solo to end the album on a high note.

[@jkbaca41]

Street Life is a killer tune!

[@amycollins8832]

Genesis ATTWT for the win. While I was too young to appreciate either as a new release, ATTWT was with me in a very tumultuous time in my life (a decade after the release) that I was headed off into the Western sunset just like the album cover. There I was an underage driver, speeding down I-76 with meager family belongings in tow in a survival situation. "Down and Out" was playing. Anyhow, If this had been versus Voyage of the Acolyte or Spectral Mornings it would have been a tougher choice. On Please Don't Touch Narnia and the title track stand out, but overall not one of the most memorable from Steve Hackett.

[@stuartwexelbaum9070]

Love the show..I pretty much agree with the Genesis picks..I go to that album more often then Please Don't Touch..The high points like Kim, the title track and the 2 Ritchie Havens tracks and the 2 Steve Walsh tracks make for a real interesting and enjoyable listen..I prefer Voyage, Spectrum & Defector however Please Don't Touch rates has an interesting part of the Steve Hackett journey..

[@Oakenshield69]

ITPS means Wed morning coffee with KZbin for me here in Sweden. Cheers fellas!

[@michaelbenz8092]

I'll add my vote for Please Don't Touch. I love Down and Out and Deep in the Motherlode (great live opener), but not crazy about some of the ballads. The eclectic nature of Please Don't Touch, imo, is perfectly proggy, especially when they're Integrated with the classic prog of the title track, Narnia, and others.

[@tadreaming1]

About like what you folks came up with as far how I feel about them. The Steve Hackett is all over the place, with great highs & not the best lows. And then there were 3, not there best, but a good listen. I'll go with the latter for my preferred listen.

[@mvancha]

Hi Guys. Great show. I love both albums and think they are both top notch, both excellent A level albums by each one. I prefer "And The There Were Three" to "Duke", by far as it's the last great prog album by Genesis. I don't mind that there is no Hackett and that Rutherford doesn't dominate as is gives Banks more room to take over. I forgot how much I like "Please Don't Touch" and I like every track. I have to rate the Genesis album 1A and the Hackett album 1B.

[@carlsalazar4490]

Enjoy your vacation Pete.

[@bigcarrot3863]

Any fans of Please Don’t Touch should listen to the bonus disc song from that album seven of cups

[@chutch15]

Agreed! I almost forgot to bring it up!

[@lazarossamaras4427]

Hi guys, it is really cool to listen to the perspectives of fans of music like you, and as I am a great fan of Genesis and Hackett having every album, I lean to And there were three since it is an album that I enjoy it in full. Please don't touch seems strange to me in comparison to Hackett's catalogue especially the ones around that time.

[@garyjoyce2160]

Good evening from. New Jersey

[@uckbee]

Say it's Alright, Joe is a magnificent song, and representative of Mike Rutherford's unique, smoothly masculine style, which he displayed sterlingly nearly two years later in *Smallcreep's Day.*

[@jkbaca41]

I'm gonna have to agree with Ken here and I totally get what he's saying. "...And Then There Were Three" is like a flat line (pedestrian or safe, you could say), while "Please Don't Touch" has the highest of highs and some lows(and to me, the lows aren't really low, maybe "Necam"). Genesis was just trying to continue a sound while Hackett was taking chances with his sound. Just having Steve Walsh sing two excellent songs on here blows away anything on that Genesis album(which I do like). "Racing in A" ending with that solo acoustic guitar piece.. that's just genius! I personally love the Randy Crawford sung song (catch her on The Crusaders album, and song, "Street Life") what a voice! There's also the beautiful instrumental "Kim", we loved it so much that we used it as my Wife's Wedding March when we renewed our vows. That main riff in "Vicarage" sounds like something IQ would do in the early days. Yea, the vocals are goofy, but the music is really good. From "Land" to "Necam" is just a cool instrumental journey. The Ritchie Haven tunes are good "How Can I?" has an obvious Beatles motif to it ("Across the Universe" anyone?) and "Icarus" is pretty epic. I just listened to this and did not skip, or felt that I had to skip, a single song. How in the world did Hackett and Walsh not hook up later to do some special project amazes me... Especially, before his voice went really downhill (you know, one of those Magna Carta things). Yea, "Please" is here, there and everywhere, but it doesn't come off as a former member trying to catch his former band's sound... He's his own man. No contest, it's "Please Don't Touch" for me.

[@thedarkwizardroom]

Watched the episode and enjoyed it. Sorry didn't make chat. Needed some extra rest and watch along the All Star baseball game on Fox. Anyway my nod is the same as Pete's. I do enjoy the ATTWT more these days. Steve Hackett is interesting on this record of Please Don't Touch and love the opening track of Narnia with Steve Walsh. The rest seems IMO of Steve Hackett showcasing his ability for how well he can be as an artist on his own. On albums once before and after this one he does alot better. There are nice arrangements and making them seem complex and some high moments but falls short to me in vocals other then Walsh who is excellent and the female vocal on one track. The Ritchie Havens ones are meek mild at best and Ritchie has song better on his own solo records far superior IMO then what he did for Steve Hackett. It's alright we are offered what we think and hear in our ears making an impression when listening to music. While The Genesis album is the easier flow of sound from the band to me. Yea I can say in spots where you would miss Hackett. But Rutherford makes up for it enough too and with Phil's Vocals and Tony Banks as well carrying on well and the band doing some nice songwriting. Down In The Motherlode a fine track if one said pick one from the album and enjoy the rest of the album from the opening track Down And Out all the way through to Follow You Follow Me. Bits of prog on the album. An album that yea ages well and better listening to when one would be older and wiser. Take care and remember the gentle handshake here and smiles when we have differing opinions or when we think the same. We are friends in this community we are in and I like or love the content each and every day. B Good. 🎶

[@joshcreasey]

Both albums are excellent to my ears, although for more consistency, ATTWT is the better one for me. Down And Out, good grief, what an ass-kicking rocker for an opener!

[@seanschmidt8408]

The best versions off ATTWT are on the Genesis archive live CD of the 1980 Duke tour.

[@user-cj4df7vs7w]

Always loved Please don't touch. Not so brilliant as Voyage of the Acolyte but still very good album. Kim one of his best instrumentals, brother John is spectacular on flute. Never cared for Genesis since Steve's departure. I always felt sad that my favourite prog rock band transformed into pop hit machine. They released nothing since 1997, their last shows such a sad view. You know all that Phil's health problems. On the contrary Steve is very active even today, his discography is huge, he released more albums than others combined (including Gabriel). God bless him.

[@quaid667]

It's very hard for me to get into Steve, Tony and Mike's solo stuff because they don't usually sing. There is a massive reason why i'm obsessed with Genesis. The chemistry between them outweighs their solo stuff. Voyage of the Acolyte i love because Phil and Mike are on it.

[@keithf_]

'Voyage of the Acolyte' ... the best Genesis album they never made !

[@quaid667]

@@keithf_ funny enough, I remember playing this album and my sister liked it. I blasted Genesis albums in my bedroom for a few years and I don't think she was that keen. But Voyage was the one 😂

[@keithf_]

@@quaid667 Interesting. I like your sister's taste in music. I love much of Steve's solo output.

[@DoubleCross2009]

PDT is the deeper album; more personal, eclectic, eccentric, adventurous. ATTWT was the first Genesis album I heard so I have some nostalgic affection for it but PDT is the one I'd go to now.

[@kennycraig6769]

Steve Hackett all the way for me. I wonder if And Then There Were Three will qualify for Pete's power trio's? I saw Genesis at Knebworth doing the And Then There Were Three album tour. Terrific.

[@bradstone4362]

Well, OK, we have been discussing ATTWT quite a bit lately! This album has always held a special place for me. I think it is a great album. Best Genesis album, no, of course not. But I think it's better than a lot of people give it credit for, and those who explore it deeper or go back to it often come away with a more favorable impression. Yes, it's 'ballad-y', as was mentioned on the program, but keep in mind that many of Genesis' classic prog songs are ballads (e.g. Entangled). Ken asked what would be the memorable track on this album, and I'd say Burning Rope (originally was supposed to be a much longer track, but the band decided to cut it down) and The Lady Lies. But many of the shorter songs on this album are memorable as well. I know the panel is not favorably impressed with MR as a lead guitarist, and of course he's no SH, but I think he is effective in what he does on this album. I saw the tour, and it was impressively performed live. Tony had a few new keyboards, and consequently new keyboard sounds. His Mellotron/synth string combination on Many Too Many is just stunning. As for Please Don't Touch, I went back and re-listened (hadn't done so in decades). It has some very nice musical moments. I think it would have been more cohesive if Steve had stuck to one lead singer. The title track I could easily hear Genesis doing, and I think they would have done a better version. But I really don't think this album quite lives up to ATTWT, so ATTWT gets my vote. Cheers! Brad

[@MikeOfPlano]

Please Don't Touch!!!

[@MackeyWilliams]

Shout out to my fellow New Yorker and Facebook friend Chuck for mentioning the 1978 radio broadcast from the Uptown Theater in Chicago. Why that hasn't been officially released is a real head scratcher. An amazing showcase for the songs from ATTWT which benefit greatly from the contributions by Chester and Darryl. Not sure if you guys will agree, but for me the live versions of songs from ATTWT and W&W are greatly superior to the studio tracks. I can't help wondering if that's because those Genesis albums are 50+ plus minutes and sound kinda wooden and muffled as a result.

[@chuckazeee]

Way superior my good man.

[@patbarr1351]

Does "And then...3" have particularly strong songs? Maybe "Down in the Motherlode" and "Down and Out", but what it does have is a SOUND. That disc pushed Genesis to its wall-of-sound limit, maybe accidentally as Tony filled in keyboard parts that would have been suited to guitar. The result was a super-dense sound that probably influenced later '80's artists like Lush, Icicle Works maybe Big Country on songs like "Tall Ships Go." Coming at the end of the record, "Follow You, Follow Me" is the perfect cool down. I prefer Nick Davis' wider-screen remix to the nearly monophonic original by David Hentschel.

[@TonVenhuizen]

I like both, and I see ...and then there were three... as the last 'classic' Genesis album (even I like Follow You..), but also I prefer half of the Duke album above it. I like the Hackett album, but indeed it's a bit eclectic. Often wondered if we'd had Hoping Love Will Last sung by Phil on W&W instead of Your Own Special Way, and Please Don't Touch instead of Wot Gorilla.

[@stevescott200]

Seen the "then there were 3 " tour back in 78 at Knebworth, brilliant , oh and Brand X were the opening act . could never get into Steve Hackett's solo work

[@andersondavies3589]

Three great splits-discussions so far. No "All change": Supertramp / Roger Hodgson might be a great discussion (I see Supertramp as belonging to the prog family) Oh, and thanks for the great overall idea for this new series :) Now I have to listen into Hackett'S work more closely, and it is all your fault, haha!

[@emma99hg]

I would like to see a comparison of all the first solo albums from all the Genesis members including Anthony Phillips and Peter Gabriel.

[@howardwright6961]

Very interesting. Obviously very subjective. From my view I prefer 'Please Don't Touch ', the reason being that there are more songs I skip on 'And Then There were Three '.

[@danaaronmusic]

My choice is the imaginary album that was a full-on collaboration between Hackett and Walsh.

[@michaelsneade31]

I think Ken was correct in saying that Please Don't Touch was searching for an American audience with picking three top American singers to sing some of the songs.

[@keithbk]

Steve Walsh should have sung the entire Hackett album and Narnia should have been twice as long... in fact, the album would have been better if the entire record was dedicated to the Chronicles of Narnia because it needed a THEME.

[@nsanenbrane53]

Agreed.

[@Norshammar72]

I’m totally with Ken here. Please Don’t Touch is far more fun album of the two. I like the ebb and flow of the album. At least there is something happening in the music. “Three” has the same problem. Some tracks are great like “Burning Rope and “The Lady Lies” but you also get “Story of Big” and “Say it’s all right Joe” and also every track has the same sound. It’s dark and quite dull. Plagued by that Yamaha electric piano that just sound wet. Why he didn’t bothered with a grand piano puzzles me because the songs suffers a great deal. Guys, there is at least 7 fantastic Genesis before this turkey. Haven’t you flogged this one enough 😀😀😀

[@CHEERACCIDENT]

Gosh. The very first Genesis album I ever heard and the best (neck and neck with Acolyte) Steve Hackett album. Hmmmmm… Side two of Touch is absolute perfection. Sublime. I would not change a thing. Steve was… ironically enough… truly touched… while making this record. He would never shine so brightly after this. Spectral Mornings is great, and it’s nice that he’d gotten himself such a good band, but the albums just got to be more and more homogeneous after this one. There’s truly something to be said for someone who can combine such disparate elements which lead to such a rewarding listen. Additionally, I think he’s making an important cultural statement by including an American folk singer and an American R&B singer. A gutsy move, one I believe was made out of love (not marketing). And those three songs really do fit well into the whole if you don’t look at them as “in the way.” ATTW3 has a special (still very British at that point) vibe to it, and I’m surprised all three band members are so down on it. It’s got its weak moments (Ballad/Night Dream/Follow), but it’ll always have a special place in my heart. (What an opener, eh? My Gosh! And I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that this album showcases Phil’s drumming at its most “orchestral,” while, of course, still managing to be R&B. Dood was incapable of not grooving.) I’d hate to have to choose between these two. If I absolutely DID have to, I’d go with Touch… but, fortunately, I don’t have to.

[@bertkarlsson1421]

It would be interesting to see you do Gong - Shamal vs Daevid Allen- Good Morning! And Weidorje vs Magma Attahk! And Zamla Mammaz Manna- Shlagerns Mystik vs Coste Apetrea - Nyspolat!

[@alexhamilton4084]

I think it’s evident in hindsight that there was a coming split. Obviously Steve left the band because his songs were being ignored and he could see the direction the rest of the band were pulling in and he didn’t want to go that way. The biggest giveaway was the album cover on And Then There Were Three. It’s so completely different in style to all the previous albums, leaning more towards a contemporary look, away from the fantasy covers of old. The songs are much shorter than in the past and a definite leaning towards a Pop sound that would get worse as time went on. I never listen to either album in full anymore but there’s certain songs that I play off either. There’s one on the Genesis album and 4 off Please Don’t Touch. So I guess by default I prefer Steve’s album.

[@bryankafka2952]

I will agree with most of the panel by what they did not necessarily say which is that both albums are not all that great. I personally believe Please Don't Touch is a mess and I don't listen to it at all anymore. And Then There Were Three I listened to years ago and either sold or gave it away. Interestingly enough, both of these albums are on my list of the Prog albums We Do Not Like episode.

[@danburnes722]

I like the eclectic quality of Please Don’t Touch. Walsh never sounded better with Hackett on this album. Randy Crawford was fantastic. Sorry guys, you have under sold this album.

[@clansome]

Having recently watched your Fish vs Marillion I feel that Steve is definitely in the same boat as Fish, although there was no replacement in Genesis just existing members taking on more responsibilities. Both were fabulous albums, I remember buying both of these when they came and being impressed with both. I am one of those that LOVE Burning Rope which I know can take a lot of flak from some folks. I feel that Genesis on this album were being what prog stands they were PROGRESSIVE, not necessarily bound by previous albums. I wasn't a fan of Follow You, Follow Me but it was a "necessary" evil for them. Steve's Please Don't Touch was a collection of great songs but had no real flow to it.

[@derekorford1708]

Ha Ha. Steven is funny when he mimics 'Carry On Up The Vicarage'. The high, wobbly voice effect really was odd, at the time. For me, I love both of these LPs. With Genesis, and Hackett, you always hear those amazing chord changes, and inescapable Englishness. Maybe both are produced very well, but with 'Wind & Wuthering' you get all of the chemistry both these LPs lack. Simply, the standard they set just had to dither at some point. Still amazing quality on both LPs, but not the cohesion of Genesis with Hackett.

[@keithf_]

For me, the two Genesis foursome albums 'Trick' and 'Wind' are fantastic. and boy did Genesis miss Steve when he left. A lot of the quirky progginess was gone ! Been a Genesis fan for nearly 50 years. I'll happily listen to Genesis albums from 1970-76. But I rarely listen to the Genesis threesome albums these days. The more hindsight I gain, the more yearning I have for those earlier albums.

[@dtltmtgt]

I have to agree with Ken, "FYFM" is a POS. Never been a fan of this song either. Saying that, however, I do prefer the Genesis album to Hackett's. I think "Icarus Ascending" is a great tune, that's pretty much the only song I go back to.

[@vincentbrightling1686]

Pretty astonished that anyone could favour And Then There Were Three over Please Don't Touch. Actually can't believe what I'm hearing!

[@sotdude7]

Believe it.

[@vincentbrightling1686]

@@sotdude7 😂

[@paultrate4855]

I’m siding with Ken here. Yes, ATTWT does have an overall better flow, it just sounds like background music you would play quietly at a dinner party. There are no peaks for me. Please Don’t Touch has valleys, yes but the peaks for me reach far higher than anything on ATTWT. I relistened to both this morning and PDT kept my attention the whole time. With Genesis it had problems really holding my attention. To this day, Duke is the only post-Gabriel/Hackett album I listen to.

[@ianmacdonald9201]

I'm with Ken on this 100%. ATTWT just highlights the gaps and Rutherford's shortcomings and for me, i never play it anymore. As for Steve, he was targeting the US and showing himself as a songwriter like Mike and Tony were. The songs individually are fine to excellent but the album just misses because it's all over the place musically collectively.

[@kenl2091]

Well, I have always been in the Please Don't Touch camp. When I bought it a couple of weeks after it was released and probably before I had read a review, I thought 'Why are these soul singers on a Genesis album and who the hell is Steve Walsh?' I quickly answered my own question - 'Wow, these are really good soul singers bringing a totally different sound to progressive music and Steve Walsh is plainly a top quality American AOR talent'. This wasn't Genesis - it was barely even prog - but it was much much better than the watered down version on ATTW3.

[@stuartraybould6433]

And then there were three is weak, definitely missing Hackett. Please Don't Touch is an unusual album, it's different, it's progressive in the truest sense and a far better album, not even a close contest. Side two is perfect.

[@marco69tits]

Can't believe anyone who listened to both would vote for Genesis. Hackett is far better in this test.

[@johncassidy3071]

The only thing on ATTW3 that seems to have Genesis magic, to me, is Motherlode. I actually enjoy Follow You Follow Me, as well as others. But I have the same problem I have with Bank's A Curious Feeling. It quite runs together. And Banks' struggle with his angst is a little much after a while. And even though PDT wasn't what I wanted to hear on first listen, I appreciated it for what it is. I find Hoping Love Will Last is one of the highlights especially Steve's solo. I agree with the idea that ATTW3 is a more even album and PDT has higher highs, except for Motherlode, which I thing is among one of the best songs Genesis put out. And Rutherford's solo on Many Too Many, though simple is comparable to some of Hacketts for feel. But, I like the experimentalness of PDT and put it way above ATTW3.

[@ProckGnosis]

I'm mostly inline with a lot of the commentary on this "episode". Hackett's "Please Don't Touch" was just too inconsistent for me to listen to in one sitting. Definitely had some moments and music (and tunes as a whole) I liked, but I've since mostly ignored maybe half the disc. A significant part of what I didn't like were the vocals (despite really liking both Walsh's and Havens' vox). Would have preferred if Hackett had gone with only one vocalist. I definitely think ATTWT is the stronger, more consistent album, but it could have used a bit more Hackett-ish guitar and less layered synths (and I LOVE synths). I found myself liking ATTWT a lot more after getting the remastered version. Everything sounded clearer, and with the guitar parts sounding more prominent, the album as a whole just sounded more balanced.

[@simond1574]

Apart from the debut "And then there were three" is the first disappointing Genesis album. Duke and the Self titled are much better. I like the Hackett album. It's not the best of his albums, but there are quite some enjoyable songs on it. And if I may say: All in all the solo Steve albums are much better than the Genesis albums in the 80s and 90s. Also live he is much more caring for the Genesis legacy than his ex bandmates. And he delivers quality albums to this day.

[@marguskiis7711]

"Touch" is pretty poppy album. Such a smart, american-looking pop, quirky, interesting one but lacks good tunes. But "Three" is pretty extreme album, with its massive sound, crazy synth textures etc. And the tunes are really good. The overall feeling is SO melodramatic. Total symphonic metal 20 years before its time.

[@timelkins3537]

Wow- I absolutely love “Follow You Follow Me” I’ve never heard someone call that song absolute shit. All art is subjective. 😂

[@arnaudb.7669]

For me The Lady Lies is above all the Please Don't Touch album.

[@arunsabherwal6256]

Pete the sound quality at times is not good for some contestants for ex: Chad in this episode. This could be mics not positioned properly , distance or poor quality mics or distortion or buffering etc. otherwise these episodes are highly enjoyable and informative. Good show this.

[@jimmycampbell78]

Kind of related to your comment- Chuck what did you say near the end around 39:00 when Pete was talking about Richie Havens? I didn’t catch what you said. I don’t think the other guys did because you were laughing but they did not respond. Was it a Richie Havens song or album title? I didn’t get it at all 😂

[@nsanenbrane53]

I prefer Please Don’t Touch over ATTW3. I like ATTW3 but it does feel like the band was in a bit of an identity crisis. Mike Rutherford had not yet adjusted to being a lead guitarist, and a lot of the song writing isn’t there. Still a fine album. Please Don’t Touch is more experimental and musically varied and while its not as cohesive as his other albums, it is more interesting and had better written songs than ATTW3.

[@rk41gator]

Agree that Genesis really missed Steve on 'And Then There Were Three'. (too synth heavy, yes)

[@polarcesar]

I'm with Ken on this one. Yes, Please Don't Touch might not be as consistent as And Then There Were Three but the songs (except Carry On Up The Vicarage) are just better and have more feeling than any on the Genesis album and the variety of singers makes Hackett's album more entertaining. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Phil Collins is as good a singer as Steve Walsh or Richie Havens. Hackett may have stayed on the background but his guitar sound and arrangements, both acoustic and electric are spot on. Don't forget, sometimes less is better.

[@t702942]

"Please Don’t Touch" is my favorite here. I just don’t enjoy Genesis without Hackett. Not Hackett’s best, but far better than the Genesis album.

[@btfvinylmagic1180]

I love Please don't touch. To me is much better than Defector. Still And then there were three is a little better.

[@stuartwaby3081]

This is where Steve became the real Genesis, he carried on breaking new ground whilst his old bandmates play'd safe and went down the commercial route, they made shedloads of money whilst losing their integrity. Interestingly Steve's carried on playing the Genesis classics to this day whilst his ex bandmates have either retired or disappeared into oblivion.

[@kingcrim]

Has "Best Comeback Prog Album" been discussed?

[@michaelbushell4356]

Ken summed it up for me. ATTWT is bland and I played it rarely after the first few listens in 78. There is some rubbish on PDT but in the end it’s the great stuff we remember: PDT has it, ATTWT hasn’t .

[@franciskocher200]

😄👍👍

[@WarhawkBeyond2040]

For me Steve Hackett Please Don't Touch! is without a doubt the stronger and better album of the two, he not only got to show what he could truly do on his own but proved that Genesis's loss would be his own gain especially as some of those songs were presented to the band and ended up being rejected. Some of my favourite Steve Hackett songs are on this album, Kim is just absolutely gorgeous and the combination of his acoustic guitar playing and his brother's flute together sounds so lush, the title track is epic as is Carry Up The Vicarage. So many classics and this was only his second solo album. Steve Hackett is in my top 3 favourite guitar players of all time and the best thing about this one was he was just warning up. Genesis And Then They Were Three for me was an okay ish album but to me the band losing Steve Hackett really shows but I give all 3 musicians credit for soldering on and still managing to make things work. I think this was the moment that Phil Collins truly came into his own as a singer and he really sounds great all throughout but this was when Genesis completely moved away from being a prog band and turned itself into a hit making pop outfit. I would say that the most memorable track of the entire album is Follow You Follow Me but apart from that, I honestly don't remember a lot of the other tracks nor did I care that much for them. Great show as always and loved hearing everyone's thoughts on both of these albums

[@rael2099]

Hoping love Will last was competing against Your own special way to be included in W&W too, and I would've love to have Hackett's song instead of that snooze of a song that Your own special way is. Production wise, Please Don't Touch is far superior than ATTWT. It takes more risks, it sounds better, better mixed, better performed. It's an awesome album imo, the weakest of the magic 4 indeed though, and Carry on the vicarage is the only crime in the album. The album's charm is in the variety of styles. All guests do a great job, and despite being a bit of an experimental album, it showcases how great of a songwriter Steve is. I think Richie Havens influenced Peter Gabriel a great deal in his singing. Notice how drastically his voice changed after PG2. ATTWT has its masterpiece: Down and Out, it has flow and has great compositions and some really weak ones like Snowbound and The lady Lies. I loved that album first time I heard it, it really surprised me because I expected the worst knowing Follow You Follow Me was in it, and I think is much better than Duke. Only if it had a better production... Please Don't Touch for me.

[@davidpirkola1547]

PLEASE DON"T TOUCH...not that close.

[@kennbrown4638]

Hackett. Not even close.

[@badrogue66]

ATTWT and its not even close.

[@johnmavroudis2054]

"And Then There Were Three" is a better overall album... but Hackett's highs are GREATER than Genesis.'. Nothing on "ATTWT" is better than "Narnia," and "Please Don't Touch." There's no reason those songs couldn't have been covered by Genesis... (and I'd throw "Racing In A" as well. "Down and Out" is the best cut for Genesis on "Three"... Very good listen from beginning to end... but Genesis had their heart and soul ripped out when both Gabriel and Hackett left. It's as simple as that.

[@ralphmarrone3130]

I’m with The Professor on this one. I can’t stand ATTWT.