In Warcraft 3, Every Unit Tells a Story

[@equusquaggaquagga536]

Biggest difference between Grom and Thrall Grom drinks from a corrupted fountain while Thrall goes questing to purify one

[@redwings13400]

Oooh, you're right! I didn't even notice that parallel, that's brilliant!

[@The-jy3yq]

​@@redwings13400Funnily enough, Thrall gets presented with _two._ In the -prologue- -Exodus of the Horde- prologue, remember? And he purifies them both (the first one even shows up 2 missions down the line!)

[@losvatos6714]

@@equusquaggaquagga536 lol I also never noticed the parallel... Makes me wonder if the fountain that was in the thrall mission was intentionally corrupted from demons, or was it corrupted from some primitive chaotic force.

[@carlosdavidg7]

Interesting. I love it when people talk about odd parts of game design that tend to be undersaid but very important.

[@redwings13400]

I really enjoy that too, it can be fun learning about all the ins and outs of game design that isn't always talked about! Thanks for watching! :D

[@TamTroll]

The Asymmetry even extends to something as simple as the worker unit. The human Worker can have multiple workers building one structure to build it faster, and they can become an emergency military force in a pinch, but all this leaves them exposed to attacks. The Orcs can only have one Peon per structure, but they physically enter the structure they are building while building it, this keeps them safe from attack. The Night Elf Whisp also goes into the structure they are building, but most buildings consume the whisp upon creation, requiring you to make multiple whisps in order to make a base. Meanwhile an Undead Zelot simply begins the building process and then his job is done, one Zelot can build an entire base in a few seconds and then leave the area.

[@redwings13400]

Yep :) They do basically the same thing in Starcraft, and it works so well in both games. Playing around with worker mechanics is one of the fastest ways to create a unique faction in a game, and I love it.

[@KingLich451]

night elves are the new zerg!

[@Padsoldier]

I think this might be called "ludonarrative consistency"? (Or at least Wikipedia calls it that.) One more thing that could be included for the Orc Campaign: In the tutorial you only have access to Orcs at the start (Thrall, Grunts, Peons, Shamans). During the Prologue the Horde sets sail from Lordaeron to Kalimdor, and they encounter the Darkspear tribe on an island, which gives you access to their Troll Headhunters, and on a later mission you unlock Troll Witch Doctors (and you also get Raiders and Demolishers at some point). (According to the wiki, the second half of this mini-campaign was only in the demo and wasn't included in Reign of Chaos, but it was added back as a Custom Campaign in The Frozen Throne, and was merged into the prologue with Reforged so Thralls items are carried over, one thing Reforged did right. Apparently Reforged also added voice acting which was removed in TFT because they only recorded English for the demo and didn't want it in with partial localization.)

[@redwings13400]

Ooh, you're absolutely right! I never thought about that because I only played the prologue campaign once I got Frozen Throne, but when the prologue campaign is first, it makes a lot of sense why the trolls would refuse Mannoroth's offer while the orcs accept it. This also ties in to the theme of the campaign, as the Trolls represent the first species Thrall brought in to the horde with his aggressive protective diplomacy. Great point! I hadn't thought about that!

[@losvatos6714]

@@redwings13400 i wish atleast some trolls would get corrupted with grom orcs. There must be atleast some greedy troll bastards that would like to tape in demon blood. Or the chaos orcs forcefully make them drink, I mean they got fell kodo beast..

[@phaneros]

Warcraft 3 was one of my first real video games and I still love it to this day. I remember even back as a kid I noticed how the different factions had distinct subfactions (though the Undead were a little less diverse than the others), and as I hadn't played WoW or Warcraft 2 back then this was just a tantalizing hint that there was more to the world beyond what was in the campaigns. Orcs were my favourite and the Orc finale was my favourite mission back then (and is still one of my favourites now), in part for having a competent ally carrying you. I didn't really appreciate this parallel between Grom and Thrall as a kid, but I grew to really appreciate it over time. I love how the Orcs' storyline expands on the theme of corruption which is common throughout RoC and really hammers home the point that just because the world has corruption, it doesn't mean that fates are set in stone or there's no coming back. Also don't think I didn't notice that Archipelago clip. I'll take this video as another shove to get a working version of Archipelago Warcraft 3 working.

[@redwings13400]

@@phaneros hehe. The archipelago clip was mainly because I wanted to play a clip of all in, and that was the one I could find, but a Warcraft archipelago mod could be very fun :)

[@as2kostek]

My favourite mission in the game is probably the Culling of Stratholme, for narrative reasons and how it manifests through gameplay. So, this mission is one of the few that got completely reworked in Reforged: they added new minibosses in some houses, there's some lost patrol out there, redesign of the city to make the movement more interesting... And it's all wrong. It was meant to be boring and tedious. You see, this is the mission where we probably for the first time truly grasp how terrible the events unfolding in front of us really are - and the gameplay aspect reflected it well. What we were doing in this mission was NOT fun; it was annoying, repetitive and somewhat mechanical. It also featured possibly the most genius move I've seen in gaming ever: mechanics of killing the citizens in a particular way. When you destroy a house four civilians run out of it, fall asleep and then turn into ghouls you have to fight... but basically every player at some point realized you can kill them BEFORE they turn because you can two-shot them for an easier fight. The thing is, they aren't marked as enemies initially - you have to MANUALLY kill EVERY one of them. Devs made the player commit all these horrible acts by hand, just like Arthas did. All these heinous deeds, reflecting the main characters mental state and the sense of duty he felt. Did you know why Arthas failed to convince Jaina and Uther to help him? Because he haven't slept for three days at this point. My man was so exhausted he started hallucinating and became uncapable of reasoning properly. And you, the player, become an extension of his madness in this grim, cruel, horrifying task.

[@evanthesquirrel]

Commenting for the blood of Mannoroth to give us the chaos power to give this channel victory over Alolgoritharius, the keeper of the tube.

[@redwings13400]

No! This goes against everything the chief tuber taught us! We can't let advertisements and reminders to like, comment, and subscribe overtake us again!

[@syndicatepenguin8420]

I started playing this game on multiplayer with my siblings as a kid. I simply trained whatever units the tech tree gave me. When I finally got to play the campaign, learning how these races came together and how these units slowly unlock themselves in the tech tree due to some backstory. Felt like a nice discovery moment for me back then. Made me appreciate history. The people (race/faction in this game) who you see united today were once not allied until a string of events pulled them together. Like how the elves and the humans of Arathor allied together

[@redwings13400]

@@syndicatepenguin8420 yep, I really like how the campaign puts these units together as alliances that the characters in the story have to work for, rather than as one faction that’s always been together and always will be. It gives the story a bit more fluidity, the orcs in game aren’t “the horde”, but they’re more “thralls horde,” and I think that’s really cool!

[@syndicatepenguin8420]

@ true! I also wondered back then that we were only able to experience the full human TFT tech tree for only one mission which is the very first blood elf mission (Misconceptions). Basically normal human tech tree with the blood elven priests and spell breakers. I always wondered how Garithos used that whole human tech tree with blood elves before turning against them

[@snowash4052]

Hey you should have some more views, i really like when ppl talks with passion, even more if its one of my favorite games of all time

[@redwings13400]

@@snowash4052 thank you! Glad you enjoyed! :)

[@theolanderdilag3872]

Tbh the olden days of blizzard where both WC amd SC were popular really love their backstory worldbuilding in a factional scale. Im not a WC junkie but I do love SC and the overarching unit stories are as beautiful as how you immerse yourself in it. Best example are the marines, the zealots and the zerglings; the first infantry units you use. Marines are just conscripts or criminals or just people in the army or security which says a lot about their flexible but fragile use in the Terran arsenal. Zealots being as low as proselytes but are considered as more disciplined warriors than lets say a human in a marine suit to shoot the bad guys for a plan says about its way of battle. Zerglings aren't as useful with just one or two other than a scout, but see them in numbers speeding like damn cheetas and you got troublesome nitwits that bite you like angry fire ants.

[@redwings13400]

I mentioned this in another comment, but yeah, the base factions in Starcraft are incredibly well designed. I am, perhaps not surprisingly based on my videos, a mass ling player, and I just love swarming things with hundreds of zerglings. It's so satisfying! :D

[@robertlupa8273]

Zealot is an "elite" compared to other basic infantry, having higher stats but also cost. Zerg is the weak, "strength in numbers" unit, down to being created in pairs. Marine is somewhere in between, while also being the only ranged unit of the three. They're all good representations of their factions as a whole.

[@pandaprewmaster325]

Invasion of kalimdor despite its name giving off violent impressions at first is really a story of redemption its the best ROC campaign by far and I say this as a die hard night elf fan. Having played wc2 it was shallow compared to warcraft 3 , if only blizzard remasterd warcraft 2 using the wc3 engine. Do also keep in mind that units are usually introduced in scenarios that allow you to use them fully like the abominations in siege of dalaran or knights in the culling , kodos in cry of the warsong if only this mission had a fountain of health. Worth noting that sorceresses are introduced in a mission where the player is at a numerical disadvantage and I think even upgrade disadvantage since he only can get tier 1 blacksmith upgrades while the dead can get tier 2 I might be wrong here. Its also worth noting that throughout the warcraft games orcs never had an orc healer , the only healing orcs get is from the trolls. Warcraft 3 proves again and again that it is indeed one of if not the most important RTS of all time. However because I really liked warcraft 2 setting being a war of extinction and a duel of fate add on it the good graphics I plan to make a balance mod for this game to give every unit something unique its counterpart lacks would make warcraft 2 more enjoyable while still being a simple RTS.

[@redwings13400]

Yeah. I don't think Warcraft 2 is a bad game, and I wouldn't make so many videos about a game I dislike. However, Warcraft 3's faction differentiation is really what sets it apart from the other two games in the franchise, giving it the ability to tell a much deeper story and really flesh out the world so well! Rewriting the Warcraft 2 story in a Warcraft 3 style has a lot of potential to be a great campaign, and I think there are mods that have tried to do that. I haven't personally played them, but what I've seen from them looks pretty solid. Good luck with your balance patch, I think that has potential to be really cool!

[@pandaprewmaster325]

@redwings13400 yeah warcraft 2 could be way more than what it is both in terms of story for example the multiple factions go underused allowing the player only to play as blackrocks or black tooths , while in human campaign you only play as azeorth and lordaeorn there can be much more done with the factions like playing as stromgarde in some missions or kul'tiras in battle of crestfall , or playing as the burning blade in stratholme and the Dragon maw in dalaran its just a color change but it makes the factions feel more involved in the conflict. The game is simple and too simple that it hurts the enjoyment of the game add on it ranged units being near useless and regeneration being a joke , many spells are underpowered like torando and skeletons , not to mention the underused orc heroes in beyond the dark portal making orc campaign feel less impressive than the human one. One example I could think of in narrative and storytelling is the player color being red (stromgarde) in dun algaz mission introducing knights through the human kingdom that is known for being mighty warriors. Its a shame this very light and visually and sound appealing game falls flat in gameplay compared to other RTS like age of empires 1 and red alert. Oh and thank you (: im really looking forward to publish the mod.

[@jvbutalid8316]

Alliance: Human, Dwarf and Elf Horde: Orc, Troll, Tauren Night Elf: Sentinels, Druids, Watchers Scourge: Undead, Traitors (i.e. Arthas, Kel'thuzad and Anub'arak), Demon

[@redwings13400]

Yep, I really enjoy how there are so many different groups that make up each faction, and that lets different heroes express their personalities by giving them different units to command :)

[@kevinabiwardani7550]

About the Night Elf one: their faction name is the Sentinel, while the Night Elves are the main race of said faction. And don't forget the Dryad, they are the children of Cenarion. For the Scourge, you can also add Gargoyles, Nerubian, and Nathrezim/dreadlord (like Mal'Ganis and Tichondrius).

[@jvbutalid8316]

@@kevinabiwardani7550 sentinels are only the night elves under tyrande. Druids include furion, the dryads and cenarius. Nathrezim are demons. I guess I should rename scourge into burning legion cuz demons also include eredar (like Archimonde and Kiljaden), pit lord (like mannoroth and magtheridon) and the lich king

[@The-jy3yq]

I like how each faction is really unique and tells a story. Alliance combines dwarven steam punk contraptions with the really high end magic of the -High- Blood Elves while also keeping the somewhat crude humans around as the backbone of the faction However, the subfactions tell a story - Quel'Thalas was relatively unscathed (compared to Stromgarde and Khaz Modan), so it would make sense that the elves would be able to field their own army (also the fact that they left the Alliance) Meanwhile, dwarves of Khaz Modan, while being immensely helpful, can _not_ form their own faction. Why? Well, Khaz Modan was besieged and later occupied by the Old Horde during both Warcraft 1 and 2, with many labourers dying in mines, refineries and foundries, as well as many of the warriors dying in a war or in slavery So dwarves don't have workers, melee units, proper non-gun units (apart from the Gryffin Rider) and spellcasters (as if they had many beforehand) All the while humans can pretty much stand on their own, having access to melee warriors of all varieties, ranged guys (remember King Arthas?) and spellcasters (alrhough no artillery) That is not to mention Kul'Tiras having a boatload of dwarves and no elves, meaning that their expedition after the orcs was sent after elves left the Alliance The number of dwarves also emphathizes the short distance from Khaz Modan to Kul'Tiras (while dwarves get lost on their way to Lordaeron, which is farther away and further in-land)

[@The-jy3yq]

(Warhammer would've split all factions into subfactions for the sake of selling more) The Horde. Let's start with the Old Horde. A relentless, ravaging, bloodthirsty and an ultimately unsustainable "alliance" of megalomaniacal monsters. No Witch Doctors, no Spirit Walkers, no Shadow Hunters, no Reincarnation, no Troll Regen - absolutely zero healing, while AS and MS buffs are numerous and strong - this also mirrors their WC2 appearance No air support - so their only option at killing Knights is brute force (with a bit of Warlocks) and their only reliable option of Anti-Air is Ensnare (which also adds up to the "tribal monster on a rampage") The Fel Horde. Old Horde turned to 11. Absolutely no ranged units except Catapults, Kodos and Warlocks. Zero healing. Low armor. No air. Truly unsustainable mess of a faction that is more overpowered than any other thanks to Demon blood (except for Naga ig). The New Horde. Not a ragtag misfit militia or a chauvinistic military state yet, but a glorious beacon for all warriors who meet an unbreakable wall and are willing to forgo their old bloody ways in favour of a brighter future Really weak disabling spellcasters, which shows the "new Orc" mentality of being in harmony with the spirits - yes, you can attack and can kill, but only in relative defence, Crippling or Cursing even your foes is forbidden Trolls bring much needed cunning and regeneration, Tauren double that with their strong spirit and ancestral help Weak air, which shows that the Horde is not yet in its prime, that the alliances made are still fresh and underdeveloped (also the fact that jungle trolls are not the highly advanced Zandalari or the dominant Amani of old) (also that Tauren can't fly) Low armor, high health, really strong individual units - shows that the Horde is in its infancy, that Orcs were slaves and Trolls and Tauren were not very advanced when they met Thrall; high resiliency and a very strong ability to rebuild and start anew; low numbers of member races and individual strength of the spirit (meanwhile Scourge and Alliance to a lesser extent can flood their enemies in cheap units) The high food cost emphathizes the strong individuality of all members of the Horde, while also showcasing the relative instability in it and the difficulties of commanding battle-thirsty Orcs and peaceful Tauren The defence is multi-layered and includes normal Peons in relative safety, again focusing on the resilience of Orcs and the Horde at large I don't know if it is symbolical, but the Spirit Lodge has 6 ends for 3 factions Towers are relatively weak and underdeveloped, with proper Fortifications coming waaay later Heroes are extremely strong, meaning that they are legends (Grom), leaders (Thrall and Cairne) and paragons of what the Horde and its members encompass (Rokhan) (Meanwhile Undead "heroes" eat their people and are relatively weak) I also like that other members of the Horde can not form their own factions Tauren are nomadic and unadvanced, so they won't have the skills to smelt iron in industrial capacities, nor would they need deforestation to built their camps Tauren don't have a way of dealing with Harpies. Like literally no way. That's funny Obviously they don't have artillery and attacking/disabling spell casters - they are Native Americans, what do you want from them, guns? I like that Tauren don't have much in terms of buildings, only Totems and a part of the Spirit Lodge - why would they need a proper Lumber Mill or a Fortress? oh and Tauren can't fly so no Tauren fliers Trolls can't form a faction - again, no capacities (or needs) for industrialization, so no artillery; they deliberately left Gurubashi to rot because of Darkspear's dislike of curses and other disabling/attacking spells; the air is scouts retrofitted to be skirmishers and raiders; and no melee units because they were not warriors, but hunters instead

[@WrynnCZ]

Cool idea with this kind of video. And you were right. RTS game design in Warcraft 3 was on point. Storytelling through cutscenes with briliant dialogs, in game events and deep lore through every unit in game makes this game so special. I miss those days when publishers like Blizzard North put so much love into their games. Cheers! 💚✌

[@redwings13400]

@@WrynnCZ thank you! :)

[@Creedonator]

I assumed your intro was an ad, skipped it, then went back and watched it when I realised it wasn't. 😂

[@redwings13400]

@@Creedonator hahaha it does kinda feel like an ad at first, doesn’t it?

[@robertlupa8273]

Warcraft 2 had a _slight_ difference in factions, but only for the casters. While the Archmage gives invisibility (that breaks on attack), the Death Knight has Unholy Armor that grants invincibility, at the cost of the unit's health. While the Paladin has Healing to undo the damage done, the Ogre Magi has Bloodlust to kill the enemy faster... so that you will take less damage in the end. :) But anyway, assymetrical also factions make for a fun excercise when making faction swap campaigns. _"How do I fill this unit's role when it has no 1-to-1 counterpart in the other faction?"_ _"If I absolutely HAVE to create a new unit, how do I make it different from the original?"_ Really, it's like making a whole new game with only a few initial steps skipped. 9:12 Or Chaos Warlocks. The Fireball spell is straight up _broken._ It's essentially Storm Bolt - a hero-exclusive ability - that you can have an arbitrarily high ammount of. Even if the Fel Well only gave you Warlocs without Chaos damage, you could still easily beat Cenarius, since you can just perma-stun him.

[@Gismo359]

I think I agree mostly, but the chaos orc peons attacking is a bug - chaos kodos were marked as workers instead of the peons. I think they fixed this at some point during Reforged

[@redwings13400]

@@Gismo359 Ohhh!! I was wondering about that! I wrote that line before I played the campaign for recording purposes, using my previous experience with the level as a guide. I was really confused when the workers didn’t attack when reviewing my footage, but I figured maybe it was just something that happened later in the level or something. I kinda loved it when the chaos peons attacked, it was a unique ai quirk that I always assumed was intentional lol!

[@robertlupa8273]

I love when bugs end up enchancing the experience.

[@Karina-winsmore]

Friendship is truly magic.

[@redwings13400]

@@Karina-winsmore yesss :D

[@Undeath9087]

Warcraft 3's unit choices is so amazing. I'm just gonna pick one pair I love from each faction and point out how it fits each of them. The humans/alliance have the whole multi-race thing, with how the dwarves help siege, humans tank, and elves support which leads to a balanced group that all need each other to be a powerful faction, showing they can't work alone. For the orcs, I could say the same, but I'll focus on the chaos orcs vs Thrall's horde with how it's just the orcs in the last mission who are part of Grom's forces, incredibly powerful, but no one else is there. No healing, no support, nothing else. Thrall has trolls, kodos, wyverns, tauren, and the alliance forces. Working together and supporting each other. With Undead, I'm gonna say it's the Necromancer Meat Wagon combo. The Scourge is utilitarian and doesn't care about any societal rules and they're an unending wave of hell. Necromancers raise the dead and Meat Wagons carry corpses for the Necromancers to raise. Every time one unit dies, you get two more. An unending wave of death. With the Night Elves, I'm actually gonna pick out Balancing the Scales, where the addition of the Mountain Giants shifts everything. They are connected to nature and fight with literal mountains of rock which lets them more or less end up being even with their enemies who happen to be the fucking Royal Guards. That and the Wisps' way of harvesting lumber. That is also a great unit choice. So yeah, agree with everything you say in the vid. Loved this.

[@redwings13400]

@@Undeath9087 :D Yeah, Warcraft 3 has a lot of really smart unit design. As a kid I loved spamming skeletons from necromancers, watching the battlefield turn in to skeletons was so satisfying!

[@chickenbacon5197]

@@redwings13400 An interesting note is in the undead Campaign when you fight the elves of Silvermoon. Their armies are much more fragile without the Human Knights, the bulky Dwarven Footmen, Griffon Riders, the elven workers can't even defend themselves as human militia can. Sure they have powerful magical defenses that are highly specialized but it leads into their arrogance being their undoing. Blackrock orcs also had an interesting change where each base had its own unique auxiliary units, making them a more 1:1 version of the Warcraft 2 Horde.

[@robertlupa8273]

@@chickenbacon5197 Speaking of Blackrock orcs, it's a neat detail that they still have the pig farms from Warcraft 2, while Thrall's "new" Horde has the supply-bunker Burrows. One is innovative, the other is stuck to the old ways (worshipping demons included). If only we didn't have to wait until Reforged for the Blackrocks to have forest trolls instead of darkspear trolls...

[@losvatos6714]

I find it funny that later on in the campaign, when the scourge meets other factions that they kill and obviously would boost their army with their corpses, the composition of the scourge units doesn't change. I mean you never get orcs skeletons, or troll ghouls, night elf zombies or abominations made from orcs, tauren, ogres etc. All your necromancer/acolytes stay humans, when you get to kalimdor no orc/night elf wanna join the dark cult. Its feels almost like the scourge are racist, and nerzhul only prefers humans to be his servants.

[@redwings13400]

@@losvatos6714 yeah, lol. The scourge should be constantly evolving as it incorporates new species in to its mix. I really like what they did with sylvanas and the high elves, resurrecting them in to banshees. I also like the way they expanded on crypt fiends by introducing anub-arak in the expansion, making him basically spider arthas. It would have been really cool to expand on these story beats with other new conquered people being added to the scourge, and I think that’s a missed opportunity for the game.

[@losvatos6714]

@redwings13400 it surely was a missed opportunity to have more undead beast/humanoids from other races. Atleast they redeemed themself in wow with much more variations of creatures and races serving the scourge. They did an okay job with adding the high elves to the scourge when conquering their homeland,even if in my opinion it was done poorly and little bit late in the last chapter. They missed giving the scourge orcs from the demon gate mission, the lich king, who was once an orc could also communicate with their warlocks and win some of them on our side. Also ogre/orc abominations should be a thing.

[@localdude2979]

I was confused af when I clicked on the video lol I thought I clicked a different one twice but then I checked it and it was like a short retrospective before the main event, nice narration bro🔥🔥

[@redwings13400]

Haha, yeah, I can see that. Expecting warcraft 3 and bam, suddenly a similar name that's clearly a different game. Another commenter thought it was an ad. xD Guess I need to think about that in the future. Glad you stuck it out and enjoyed the video after your initial confusion!

[@karpai5427]

I am pretty sure there is no lore on Obsidian Statue. Books and WoW do not count. Also kind of weird that Crypt Fiends just meet Arthas in Silvermoon. At least they don't appear in Allience Campaign before Arthas travels to Northrend for the first time.

[@redwings13400]

In my original script where I went over the entire game, I was very critical of the undead campaign, which I think actually does not do a very good job with introducing new units. I actually would go so far to say that the original undead campaign in Warcraft 3 is just not that great overall. The high elves have one good showing and two kinda pathetic showings, the theming with Dalaran is something that reforged was actually able to improve upon significantly (according to Grant anyway, I haven't played reforged), and new undead units kind of just appear arbitrarily. I think it would have been a more interesting campaign if Arthas had to recreate the scourge from the ground up, and they had more specialized undead similar to how Banshees are the souls of dead high elves. So yeah, Warcraft 3 isn't perfect. I chose the orc campaign to focus on in this video because I think that's the best example of what Warcraft 3 does right, but the game doesn't do this consistently in every campaign.

[@losvatos6714]

Aways felt lame, how there was no explanation how the scourge got crypt fiends and even gargoyles. They just appear in the northrend misssion, but they could've given them more introduction. There's also zero explanation in the scourge campaign why are those creatures helping the scourge. Also felt lame that in reign of chaos, you could play with every faction hero in the campaign, except the dreadlord. Like i get that they are powerful demons, but like they could atleast throw in tichoundrius to assist you in the last mission.

[@Bohous156]

​@@losvatos6714 When it comes to RoC, it is not explicitly stated crypt fiends are undead nerubians, but you see live nerubians in the Northrend missions and it shouldn't be hard to put one and two together considering you are fighting against the undead faction, however in TFT it is explicit with Anub'arak's introduction and the journey through Azjol'nerub Same thing for the frost wyrms, in RoC they are introduced as the Lich King's pets, but in TFT you see Arthas turn the blue dragon Sapphiron into a frost wyrm, so it's obvious that frost wyrms are just undead dragons, most likely blue ones since they live in Northrend The gargoyles are more of a mystery because even with using information outside of Warcraft 3 (books and WoW), there is no explanation to what they are and where they come from, but following the trend of the crypt fiends and frost wyrms it's easy to come to the conlucions they might just be some native species from Northrend that was turned into undead servants, which is most likely the case Unfortunately Obsidian Statues/Destroyers have no in game explanation, stated or deduced, unlike other new TFT units for other factions, the only possible explanation is that they were just built by the Scourge, since they start out as constructs, but how and why and why can they turn into Destroyers, nope, no explanation (however unlike the gargoyles these were explained retroactively in WoW, but as for War3, nothing)

[@shellshock7043]

From Challenge runs to commentary videos. This man can do it ALL!

[@redwings13400]

Awww, thank you! I haven't made any videos like this before, so I had no idea how it would be received, but I'm glad people seem to be enjoying this one! :)

[@haze300]

By demons be drivern is my favorite warcraft 3 mission. It's so epic that I intentionally delay abduction of Grom so I can fight these chaos orcs much longer. I always tried to destroy their bases.

[@redwings13400]

@@haze300 it’s really fun trying to destroy their bases! I usually do that too, the only reason I didn’t in the playthrough for this video is because I thought I might be running out of gold and was a bit afraid they were going to kill Jaina, haha.

[@Kingofredeyes]

So I actually disagree quite a bit on your Starcraft take, who's story and introduction of factions and units I think to this day still surpasses anything Blizzard has done since. The Protoss are first introduced to us as a faction that can destroy entire planets, IE Mar Sara, in response to the Zerg infestation there. This makes them seem like they are incredibly powerful and as if they would be unstoppable. This does contrast to the first time we see them in game as the Terran mission has you holding off the Zerg while eliminating the Protoss forces, but this is intentional. It's meant to leave you with a feeling of "wait this is the faction that destroyed planets?" Then when you get into the Zerg campaign we briefly see them as the Zerg makes a jump into hyperspace, in which they are doing so by avoiding direct confrontation with the bulk of their army and with elite units, but they don't come again until after Kerrigan hatches. The result of this is Kerrigan get's baited by Tassadar and one of the Cerebrates, who we know are immediately respawned when killed, are suddenly dead and gone for good and not only that now the Overmind is also stunned by it. Once again we are seeing the Protoss do things that no other faction can do but we are getting this feeling that something isn't right as it's very inconsistent. It isn't until we play the Protoss we find out why. Yes they are an incredibly powerful faction with the potential to destroy entire planets but they are also a faction scared by there past who are afraid of that very same potential. They spend more time hunting each other, IE Dark Templar, and fighting over a form of religious fanaticism and view their internal divides as being a much greater threat than the Zerg or the Terran. The thing is all of this was set up perfectly BECAUSE of how they had been used through-out the Terran and Zerg campaigns. If we had just seen them come and every mission with them would be a desperate survival mission to hold out and escape then all the internal conflict of the faction would not have made any sense. As for unit introduction, I feel it also makes sense in the world of Starcraft, it is a grand space opera type of story. The factions would have access to all of their weapons, but that doesn't mean they are going to send them on every single mission. So when you start out with just infantry, bats and marines, as a small force it makes sense. Then you get the first defensive mission you get bunkers, and vultures with spider mines. After a no build mission, you have a mission that requires traversing water and you are given your air fighter (wraith) and your dropship to complete it. Next a mission in which you can't use air units aside for a dropship so instead you are given a strong ground unit with a great AA option in the goliath. Then it's an escort mission in which you need to protect a vulnerable unit and you are given a strong defense and siege crawl unit in the Siege tank, and Science Vessels who can use Defensive Matrix to make your SCV not die in one hit. Next up would be a mission in which you have to destroy everything on the map with 2 large well defensed enemy bases and you are given the terrans best option for breaking strong defenses in nukes. Lastly when you have to escape the very same faction you have been fighting for all this time you have access to the full tech tree including your capital ship the battlecruiser. All of it makes sense with the idea that an established military force would look at a mission objective and say "ok these are the best tools we have available to accomplish the goal." I mean you are not going to send siege tanks into a situation in which the enemy faction has air superiority so much so you can't even field your aircraft. I agree with your points, but I do feel you really misunderstand the story of Starcraft and why things made so much sense with it. The story of Warcraft 3, and the orcs as you mentioned, is a very personal story between Thrall and Grom about the horde either pursuing a new path under Thrall, or returning to their old ways under Grom. It allows them to show you some very personal decisions, such as Thrall befriending the Tauren, and Grom turning to the demon blood, which would explain why each faction would get the units they get. Starcraft was about much bigger concepts about entire factions are more than it was about interpersonal conflict. While it certainly had interpersonal conflict, see Kerrigan being betrayed by Mengsk, or Tassadar's struggle to get Aldaris and the Khala to accept Zeratul and the Dark Temple, it was always more about the conflict at a faction level than it was at the personal...well until the abomination of a sequel came out and ruined everything but I digress.

[@redwings13400]

That's a really interesting comment from a perspective I hadn't really considered before! I do like the idea that the protoss are intentionally a little held back, that things aren't quite right until you play as them and figure out what's going on. If that's what they were going for, that's actually genius, though I think they could have still communicated it a bit better. For example, the intro screen says "Dozens of Protoss warships are descending upon Tarsonis," and we see like... 2 scouts and no carriers in the mission. The protoss are also built up in cutscenes as we keep on hearing about this fleet that's wiping out all life on tons of zerg infested worlds, and I still feel like it would have been better to see that in action. If what you're saying was intentional, then the only logical explanation here is that the protoss were essentially civil warring right before Kerrigan engaged them, leaving them with a shell of their former fleet on Tarsonis to fight with? Basically, I think the protoss could have been introduced better by letting the player observe a fleet of 20 carriers just wipe out everything at the end of one of the missions. Maybe at the end of mission 3, in the last 20 seconds as the zerg are making their final push, a bunch of carriers warp right on top of the fight and start slaughtering both you and the zerg. No dialogue from them, just a chance to see their fleet in action, showing their uncaring disregard for life in their pursuit to wipe out the zerg. Then if you want to deepen the mystery and keep the disfunctionality of the protoss, you could have characters mention that they seem weaker on Tarsonis, that something has changed and nobody has any idea what. As it is I still think Tarsonis reads to me as a bit inconsistent story wise, but I do like your explanation for it. Very cool comment!

[@Kingofredeyes]

@@redwings13400 so from a story perspective Tassadar was in charge of the fleet that as going around burning Zerg infested Terran worlds but he abandoned the idea seeing it was futile especially once he learned about cerebrates being regenerated and the Dark Templar's ability to defeat them for good. That is another thing we learn about in the Protoss campaign, effectively Tassadar had the fleet burn Mar Sara but afterwards began to doubt the tactics and instead tried to destroy the Zerg while sparing the terrans, meaning we where not facing the full might of the protoss on Tarsonis. This is actually revealed in the mission briefing of the first protoss mission. If I was going to think of the better way for them to have done Tarsonis it would of been to have the Protoss attacking the Zerg base instead of the terran base forcing you to mobilize out and defend the Zerg base while also protecting yourself from the Zerg, instead of having every attack wave come to the terran base as it does in game. From there they could of had some potential dialog, not with Tassadar, but perhaps a 2nd in command or someone who views the Terrans desire to defend the Zerg, rightly, as insane, and from that point on then the Protoss decides they have to kill you in order to get to the Zerg. That might of been a better way to communicate the Protoss didn't want to kill the terrans in that moment and just wanted the Zerg but by defending the Zerg the protoss at least now had to attack your force. Interestingly the dialog could actually lead to a situation in which the protoss 2nd doubts Tassadar seeing the Terrans infighting and willingness to see other Terrans die as proof of what would happen to the Protoss if they allowed their infighting to get the better of them. So I agree it could of been better, but I still think what we got was extremely strong and well done.

[@redwings13400]

@@Kingofredeyes That's fair, and I think your proposed change would be a good one. For the record, I don't think Starcraft has a bad story, quite the opposite in fact. Overall, I think it's very strong, I just don't think the topic of this particular video (introducing units and factions) is its strong suit. I also don't think Warcraft 3 has a perfect story, and when I originally wrote this script to look at the entire game, I was fairly critical with a lot of it. I think Starcraft's biggest strength lies in phenomenal overall faction design. The terran, zerg, and protoss all are relatively straightforward tropes (plucky underdog main characters who love explosions, insectoid hive mind that consumes everything in its path, declining ancient alien empire with superior technology). However, these tropes are designed SO WELL in the gameplay, and you feel that when playing it. Whether it's swarming opponents with a billion zerglings, defending a point with a siege line, or forming a carrier death ball, it just feels like... yes, that's exactly what I'd expect these species to be able to do in a movie, and it plays out so well in practice! Starcraft is a super satisfying game to play, and the factions just have this oomph to them that makes them feel incredible. I think Starcraft's story is also quite good (before the sequels destroyed it, anyway), especially when it comes to Brood War's story. It's not perfect, but it does a good job of mixing up which factions fight each other and why, and creates some compelling and memorable characters.

[@neo7538]

That intro made me question myself like "wait am i watchin the right video?" Bruh 😂

[@redwings13400]

@@neo7538 haha I got that reaction from a few people. I’ll try to make it more clear in future videos where I’m going with my intros, lol

[@modernmoonlight7350]

Warcraft 3 video essay in 2025. What the hell. It's not my birthday yet.

[@redwings13400]

:D Hope you enjoyed!

[@davidpaul8647]

Excellent video essay, finding those little details definitely helps with appreciation of organic world building. Would love to see you extend this analysis to the rest of the WC3/TFT campaign!

[@redwings13400]

@@davidpaul8647 i originally wrote a 25 page script for the entire campaign, but I wasn’t really satisfied with it; so I changed it to only cover the orc campaign instead. Maybe I’ll revisit this script and take a look at other campaigns at some point, it’s definitely something I could do :)

[@devinusleton6634]

yknow i've heard this said somewhere before and it always bothered me as a kid so i tend to headcanon this as well but like the conflict in ashenvale wasn't just because grom cut down like 7 trees (after all, they don't attack humans and etc for cutting down trees) but because they showed up with an army and smelled of demons and started digging in. like that makes a lot of sense imo

[@redwings13400]

@@devinusleton6634 I could see that. Though we don’t really know what the humans did, they may have avoided ashenvale, or been a bit more diplomatic about things.

[@KingLich451]

15:00 car is pleased with video

[@redwings13400]

She likes sitting next to me while I record. It’s very cute :)

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

Jumpt to World of Wacraft felt natural? No, the natural progression would be Wacraft 4. Also watching but 2 minutes got me to realize why I so love Heroes of Might and Magic 3 while I think age of Empires 2 is okey while age of Empires 3 is good. HoMM3: 11 completely unique factions each with 7 distinct units, and a miselanous faction for 18 more fantasy creatures. AoE2: Excluding building achitecture, every faction is the same excluding 1 unique unit per faction. AoE3: Every faction is unique enough, as they fully feel like the country they represent.

[@redwings13400]

I've never actually played WoW, but I think it would be harder to create something like a world of Starcraft because there's a bit less mystery and diversity in that universe. That's not a terrible thing by itself, Starcraft does what it does really well, but you're a bit more limited in the set of places and enemies you can fight in a setting like Starcraft, while Warcraft is just a universe filled with fantastical enemies that can be developed at any point. Also, nice. I haven't played HMM before, but I've heard pretty good things. I've only played AOE a little bit, and while I've had fun in the campaigns I've played, it's never hooked me the same way.

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

@@redwings13400 Starcraft is quite realistic with space being mostly empty and most planets being devoit of any native life. Ive played WoW a little bit but its not for me. I like finite games which tell a story with a conclusion or Dota2. I really loved the AoE3 campagne as a kid who didnt know history. The Hospitaler knights, more commonly known as the knights of Malta, search for the fountain of youth has stuck with me to this day. Now that I know history very well tho I suspect I would see the inacuracies if I replayed most campagnes now. In HoMM3 how all the official 9 factions formed is prity obvious. Humans: form crosbowmen to knights the humans man their own armies which they can afford because the Kingdom of Erathia is largest and most populous state. Their coat of arms has a griffin on it and the royal surname is Griffinheart because before the land was united the faction of humans which had taimed grifins would win over the faction that hadnt. And the angles just myseriously show up during the campagne and we can only guess that theyre there to stop the demons and put themselves under human command because they figure the humans wouldnt trust them. ... Fortress: Tatalia is a humid swamp land to lizardmen and gnolls could never go man to man with Erathia so instead they levarige their good defencive terrain and are beast taimers raising armies mostly of what are the fantasy world animals from wyverns to bazilisks to hydras. They dont go on the offencive outside of the swamp because imagine the logistics of suplying an army of animals outside of their native terain. During their campagne they just overran the undermanned Erathian border forts in the swamp and had a brawl with the orks as Tatalia and Krewlod now had a border when they previously didnt. Where as the fan made mod which everyone treats as must have expansion, Horn of the Abiss, has 2 more factions: the cove (pirates) and the factory (rag tag exiles) Their respective campagnes are about assembling these factions (and going on an adventure across the entire myserious fantasy world not just sticking to 1 continent) so the fans would understand why they are as they are, cos theyre bough gunpowder towns in an otherwise frozen high medival world and the original devs in New World Computing actually got death threats for wanting to impliment a sci fi factory town (understanding that the fans wanted HoMM and MM lore to be seperate they implimented the elemental Conflux town instead). The world is so fantastical and so rich in stuff we know that we can just imagine what the mostly unexplored rest of the world is like.

[@skoub3466]

Nice vid! I'm not sure about the rent on wargroove at the start of the video tho. I believe it lacked the context when I saw the title. I don't know if blizzard had all of that intend when they made the game. For me it was more the work of the map creator that made the pieces they had worked. I also like the asymmetry in my strategy game and I don't know if tailoring your campaign to the introduction of news units is the best approach. Figuring things out whit a lot of news pieces is also fun as the customs map have prove us

[@redwings13400]

Haha yeah, a few people have told me they were a bit confused by the start of the video being about a different game, I probably could have phrased the introduction a little better to make it more clear where I was going with that. The Warcraft 3 editor is the best RTS editor I've ever used, and I spent so much time with it as a kid. Honestly that might warrant its own video, because that editor not only created so much replayability for the game, but also provided me a creative outlet for basically an entire decade. The lack of a campaign editor on release was the final straw in making me avoid reforged, because that was the most important part of the entire game for me.

[@skoub3466]

@redwings13400 I don't know if it's the best but thank to it it's the game where I spent the most time on it

[@Mat0522]

Nice video. Any chance for WC2 peasants/peons only video in the future?

[@redwings13400]

0:56 :D For Tides, it's coming... Eventually. Can't promise when, because making videos takes a lot of time and I do this as a hobby, but I do want to make videos for it at some point. I also can't promise ever doing Beyond the Dark Portal with only workers, because... uh... Those levels are terrifying and I don't know if I can do it, haha.

[@mats9775]

7:53 You can mass towers and defeat Cenarius without becoming chaos orcs

[@redwings13400]

That's true, and if I were doing an 'Warcraft 3 only grunts' redo, I would definitely try to do that (it's one of my missed opportunities from that video). In this video though, I was trying to avoid cheese to give the perspective of what a first time player would experience in the campaign. :)

[@harm991]

You're comparing 100 person developer game + legacy games versus a 10 person developer game

[@redwings13400]

@@harm991 that’s fair. Not every game has the resources to do what Warcraft 3 did, and I certainly don’t expect wargroove to create hundreds of new models to expand its universe the way wc3 did. Still, I don’t think it’s too much to ask to hope for at least a little faction differentiation in wargroove? Maybe give the undead 2 skeletons every time they create one, but start them at 50% health. Cherry grove mages could get extra range. Give Florian soldiers a movement bonus in the woods, or some sort of forest camouflage ability to hide them from other players. Give heavensong powerful warships. Make it so that the pirate faction can’t train warships at all, but have special ships that can board low health enemy warships and steal them! Maybe doing this would mess with the game balance, but I think this would be more than offset by the amount of crazy campaign scenarios you could create with this. Imagine how cool it would be to use multiple factions in a single level if each faction were distinct, you could find combos that would otherwise never exist. The factions would have more reason to work together within the gameplay, which would make the story feel so much more alive! For better or worse, this is a hill I’m willing to die on. Wargroove is a good game already. Even with its limitations, it’s still fun. Introducing faction differentiation would make it a great game.

[@Bohous156]

*fel orcs - you don't want to piss off Games Workshop by infringing on their copyright

[@redwings13400]

@@Bohous156 well, if I stop uploading suddenly, you’ll know who to blame. (Probably me because I’m very inconsistent, but shhhh)

[@skl-1371]

Another Vid!, another vid!. Now try to be calm & don't over react. ANOTHER VID!. P.S. On a more serious note now, WC3 just took the bar & set it so high for everyone else including those who made warcraft 3 into what it became, a masterpiece that is surviving time & age. Every detail of the game be it a mechanic of a mission, a gameplay system or the units themselves were thought out too well that they are work excellently in the campaign which is the storytelling, & multiplayer/ladder which is the traditional game, from sounds to how they feel, their appearance usage. But to the sad part now, Stormgate, the scam of the century, it's been made by whom worked on WC3, be it the campaign or the multiplayer/ladder patches long after Blizzard lost it's identity, the art lead of the game, & also some from the command & conquer series. Managing to secure 35 million USD in investment to make the game, & in E3 2022 the plan was to build the game infrastructure & engine along with the systems needed to bring it on league with the quality that is WC3 & SC2, even the marketing hype videos prior were insights on systems needed to build the game with & in mind. Alas, all got sidelined for 2024 release, in a miserable state, Blizzard's work plagiarized be it the human campaign mission and story, or Overwatch hero. And now, caught manipulating fake reviews for sometime for the game to take from negative to mixed on steam. I'm truly sadden & I only bring this because you brought it's picture on the game, those that made WC3 & SC2 into the greatness they are & here I mean developers & designers, I won't mention names, when they put their reputation & work experience, previous work as the selling point, & with such state of game delivery, the fall from grace is unimaginable & unfathomable. Excuse me for the doom & gloom, the rave & the rant, but WC3 stood everything, age, time, & the people who made it too, it's a game that holds industry standards & yet more than a decade later it is yet to be dethroned, if ever!.

[@redwings13400]

hehe xD Hope you enjoyed! This one is a bit different than what I've done in the past, but I hope it's still fun to watch!

[@skl-1371]

​@@redwings13400 Not just words but releases from this channel are bombshells, always appearing on the screen before my notification even picks them, & I can't wait to be amazed with quality.

[@claustrophobicmole867]

Peak fiction

[@morfy42]

I always enjoyed starcraft more than warcraft, and part of the reason was the armies felt unique.

[@redwings13400]

I think Starcraft (and Starcraft 2) really nails the designs of their base three factions. Each one just plays in to their respective sci-fi tropes so well. Terrans feel like you're playing as plucky underdogs who've learned how to lay claim to their portion of space and blast anyone who dares to engage them. The zerg feel like you're building this overwhelming insectoid army that just lays waste to everything in its path through sheer numbers. The protoss feel like ancient, technologically advanced aliens that can bring in ludicrously powerful warships and mow down all opposition. Watching a pro terran vs zerg starcraft 2 matchup is a thing of beauty, because they somehow made the matchup play out exactly like you'd imagine it to in a movie. The zerg creep inevitably moves towards the terran base, as the terrans use everything in their power to try to hold it back. Siege tanks blast the thousands of zerglings and banelings just constantly trying to overrun the terran base. It's just so good!

[@morfy42]

@@redwings13400 WoL will remain an experience I treasure forever. The sheer adrenaline of the Char missions as a capstone to the campaign. All-in was more than I was ready for as a first time adult RTS player. I had to drop to casual to beat it the first time, although I did eventually go back and beat the campaign on brutal and it was even more exciting then.

[@redwings13400]

​@@morfy42 All In is a perfect mission that takes advantage of every unique trait the zerg and terran have to offer. Everything about it is wonderfully designed, it's ridiculously challenging but so rewarding to beat!

[@NightmareCrab]

warcraft > starcraft > diablo

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

I think your starting example in Wargroove is a bit off. First, Wargroove is turn-based, instead of a RTS and in turn-based strategy games asymetrical factions are a rarity. Even pure single player strategy games like Fire Emblem usually have a "universal unit roster" with storytelling mostly done by factions putting stronger emphasis on different units. Second, Wargroove actually makes an effort explaining why the factions use the same units through unit flavor text. I understand your gripe, i just think you could have chosen a different example.^^

[@redwings13400]

@@aureliodeprimus8018 counterpoint: maybe wargroove and other turn based strategy games that use large amounts of units should use asymmetrical symmetry. I like wargroove, and enjoyed my time with the game, but the entire time I was playing it, I wanted something more. When sedge first pulled out the gloom giants in the campaign, I was like, “ok, this is awesome, this must be a unique unit that only the plant creatures can build, I love these things and can’t wait to see everyone else’s ultimate unit!” It was exciting, and when I learned that every faction had giants, I lost a lot of appreciation for the world they were building. Then, when wargroove two was being made, I was really hoping they’d give each faction something unique, and when they didn’t, I was super disappointed. I don’t think they even need an entire overhaul of the system like StarCraft or Warcraft 3, I just want… something. Some way to differentiate each faction in wargroove beyond its commanders. The codex says that these units are different, that fellheim soldiers are numerous, but that heavensong soldiers are elite combat units. It says that Florian snipers can camouflage themselves in various terrains. It claims cherry grove has powerful mages. These claims do not survive the gameplay. I seriously believe that if wargroove wants to go from a good game to a great game, the biggest thing it could do is create faction differentiation. This doesn’t even need to be a complete overhaul of the system, but maybe it’s in unique units, maybe just giving each faction buffs to certain units the factions would specialize in. Right now, wargroove is stuck in Warcraft 2 mode, and this series has potential to create a Warcraft 3. I think it has so much potential to be something incredible. So… uh… I respectfully disagree, I think the example fits pretty well. I’ll end my rant now, but this entire video idea sprung up from my frustration while playing wargroove, and thinking about how it could be so much better with relatively small changes xD

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@@redwings13400 Yeah, but the whole point of Wargroove was to be a spiritual successor to Advance Wars. It would basically lose its original purpose and alienate the people it was targeting in the first place.... But, if you are not stuck with only a PC, i can recommend Unicorn Overlord to you. It should satisfy this itch quite well.^^

[@redwings13400]

@ that’s fair, I suppose. I never played advance wars so I didn’t come in with those preconceptions. I have heard very good things about unicorn overlord, and should definitely play it at some point! I think I’d enjoy it a lot.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@ Yeah, though your point highlighted a major difference between AW and Wargroove. In AW it made a lot of sense to have symmetrical armies, because they had modern militaries. An artillery is still an artillery at the end of the day and the specifications came from the commanders. It doesn`t translate that well to "biological" units.

[@StoicismMovement]

You found the secret sauce to wc3 😂 so sad devs just can’t understand. They’re just going to continue making generic garbage over and over again with no substance.

[@redwings13400]

In some ways, I feel like the overwhelming success of esports was a bit of a slow poison to the RTS genre. People fell in love with pro RTS because they fell in love with the campaigns first. We fell in love with the universes these games created, the campaigns that we played over and over again as a kid, and the custom map maker that kept the game being replayable in so many different ways. Most people who watch esports aren't diehard sweats who spend all their time laddering. The people who made esports successful are ones who loved the games for being deep, complex games, then gained appreciation for the players who are willing to commit so much time to playing it at the highest level. Trying to recreate a starcraft 2 style pro scene isn't going to work unless there's a hook to get players to love the game, and a spectacular single player campaign is the best hook a game has to offer. A strong esports presence in a game develops because the game is successful casually. Trying to engineer an esports engine before your game is successful casually is doomed to failure, because nobody will care about it until they're already hooked. Thank you for reading my TED Talk on why Stormgate is doomed to fail unless they seriously reverse course and change what they're trying to prioritize. xD

[@robertlupa8273]

@@redwings13400 You don't "make" a pro scene. You let it develop on its own. Trying to force it will only end in failure.

[@kam5551]

I really loved Warcraft 3 along with Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings... As the story moved to WoW, I started to hate Blizzard.

[@redwings13400]

I've never actually played WoW, so I can't really comment on the story there too much. Warcraft 3 definitely does a great job though :)