Will the Isle of Faces burn? Featuring Smokescreen

In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Game of Thrones, Westworld and more.
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[@SmokeScreenVids]

Enjoyed it! Appreciate you having me )

[@InDeepGeek]

It was an honour and a pleasure!

[@IAmRedherrings]

Yaaas!!

[@DavidLightbringer]

In Deep Smoke!

[@Nga_Babaye]

What's Hodor's favorite cereal? Raisin Bran! What do you can dead free folk? Wight Trash. What was the Night King looking forward to this winter? A wight Christmas. Jaime Lannister walks into an inn and sits down next to Breanne of Tarth. After a few awkward moments, he breaks the silence, "Are you sure we're not related?" What do you call a Lannister girl who can out run her brother? A virgin. Lastly, what's the Night's Watches true oath? Crows before Hoes. Good podcast. I don't feel like Shireen was a twist at this point in the show. It was too foreshadowed. I wonder if Book Jon's resurrection will be from Bran or some new form, perhaps with he gets the dragon glass in the chest. Shireen was a punch in the gut though and I can't like show Stannis because of it. I wish you all the best in 2019

[@kyledubs3500]

@@DavidLightbringer Smoke Deep

[@christianoles1427]

Great collaboration! Two of my favorite content creators! Thank you 🙏 both!

[@theragincajun1413]

Finally. The collaboration I’ve been waiting on.

[@IAmRedherrings]

Exactly!

[@Heegaherger]

Agreed!

[@ChristomirRackov]

And now I will be waiting on a collaboration of "In Deep Geek" with "Because Geek", since they have now both collaborated with "Smokescreen"...LOL

[@made-line7627]

@@ChristomirRackov Yes! Because *In* Deep

[@ChristomirRackov]

@@made-line7627 I tried to nudge them towards it, but neither of the two ever took the initiative to contact the other :| LOL Robert and Val are both amazing though :)

[@farmonious420]

Fantastic collaboration guys. The sweet mix of your English, and Texan accents is great. With all the talk of succession in season 7 I think the Night King is looking for his replacement.

[@booneymazz649]

Robert, youre so good at organizing and unpacking Chris's thoughts on this topic. Great idea, great work, and great collaboration! We all love Chris! And so glad you brought him on your channel!

[@IAmRedherrings]

THE DREAM COLLAB. Finally!!

[@emilybroderick2421]

This was very interesting, although I don't really agree. I don't think there can be a balance between ice and fire if all magic stops existing. I think that's too much like fixing a hole in the wall by tearing the wall down. But I love these theories you showcase, keep them coming!

[@Go-Dawgs]

Glad you had SmokeScreen on, he researches well & knows what he's talking about. Great job y'all

[@premaderemade]

So glad to see the two of you collaborating. I listen while working, so can't watch the screen all the time. I appreciate the layout of this video, where the logos change, depending on whose speaking. Thank you!

[@lady_wasser]

Happy new year Robert! May God bless you and your family! I’m so glad you brought Chris to your channel ! Thank you !

[@InDeepGeek]

Happy new year to you, too!

[@rickyzverblis2829]

Literally could listen to you speak asoif and GoT all day 👌🏼👌🏼

[@kramer311]

Really cool pairing, hope you guys do more of these together.

[@housevinyl4640]

It’s like Christmas all over again! Love to see you two collaborating on a video, I’m a fan and patron for both of you. Keep up the great work guys! Happy new year.

[@markkiser2493]

Where in the books does it mention the walkers destroying any trees? There are loads of weirwood trees above the wall, where they have easy access to the trees, but the trees remain. The destruction of the weirwoods doesn't seem to be their goal, unless they can kill them all by killing the God's eye island wood.

[@roddammit5510]

Bout time we see Smokes on here!

[@SiberianSwordsman]

Glad to see the collaboration. Would give two thumbs up if I could. Great work!

[@amberrowe8526]

So excited when I saw this video go up, two of my all time faves! Love you guys.

[@christopherbarber5283]

did you guys notice the night king on the show did not journey south until sam prevented the other from taking gilly's child? perhaps the denial of monster is what pissed them off enough to move south in numbers. forget prophecy for a moment. i also think it's possible that craster is the son of aemon or bloodraven hence his relationship w the watch, he's a lot like aeg the unworthy. perhaps like LML's ides, having inbred valerian-blackwood/warg king baby sacrifices allows an easier creation of more others

[@ressa6820]

Love this collaboration!! Thank you both very much.

[@tokitriplesixxx9953]

I had no idea Kenny friggin' Powers was so into ASOIAF lore...my guyyyyy!

[@lydiaquinn2892]

I forgot about this lovely collaboration. It was such a nice surprise .....The King of Smoke , Awesome. Love this theory - it always sounded like the right one to me

[@Heegaherger]

EVERY time I hear Chris say "Dragon Raised by Wolves", I hear James say "Parts one through four..." in my mind. With. Out. Fail.

[@cmarie9817]

Lol!

[@MolotDET]

I always just take a drink

[@SmokeScreenVids]

Heegaherger lol

[@lydiaquinn2892]

Heegaherger Same!

[@StormSteele]

Same here.

[@StormSteele]

I'm here because of @SmokeScreen. Chris is the man. Will check out the rest of your content and subscribe now.

[@Kellykellbell]

Loves this collaboration. Was so awesome. Hope yall do it again!

[@slade-joseph-wilson1822]

Nice work guys Youre channels are both great Loved the video

[@AndrewK23777]

Robert and everyone Happy New Year. Pertaining to the concept of this vid I definitely concur with basically all that was discussed here. I certainly agree that in the books the endgame is at the IoF , (who knows with the show at this point) but there is a whole order protecting it , we see magic / phenomena that keeps people away from it , like Dragonstone with the cache of weapons the Others are vulnerable to we see another island which seems another clever move by the CotF to keep the important sites out of the Others' reach. And it just makes sense the IoF is the hub of the Weirwoods, perhaps a main super Weirwood is there among other vital powerful Weirwoods and is likely the origin of the Weirwood's power and the nexus that keeps that network intact. For me it seems the NK wants to destroy the IoF and the remaining CotF for the fact that they plucked him from his life (if the show scene becomes book canon or at least the broad strokes of it, we clearly see an unwilling participant with those restraints) and forced him into many millennia of misery. Perhaps destroying the IoF and everything / everyone on the Island the NK believes will release him from his thousands of years stuck in the role. I also believe when we likely get some version of the show's NK in the books we will get a sad tale regarding his back story to the point that he may even be a sympathetic character. Bran and Jon may or may not understand exactly what is at work by the time we get to the final showdown , where will likely see Bran go to the IoF and access these powerful Weirwoods to reach the peak of his powers / abilities which will end up with a huge conflict between Bran & the NK for the fate of the realm. Even if i think there will be some confusion and ambiguity of the NK's true intentions from the opposition force and that Jon and Bran may not fully grasp what or why they are fighting and may even be pawns of the CotF. Keep up the great work Robert , look forward to all the upcoming content on the channel.

[@drd7273]

Yes!!!! Great Collaboration!!!! I'm going straight to both your channels when some are confirmed on the show/book

[@kyledubs3500]

My only problem with the balance idea is it seems to disregard the origin story of the walkers. From what we know, they were created to help stop mankind. It wasn't about an imbalance in ice and fire... So, is the claim that the need for balance of forces is an aim developed independently by the walkers themselves? What am i missing? Great video!

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

kyle Dubs do we know if the origin story of the white walkers is in the books or show only? I’ve read all the books about 3 times but I don’t remember an origin story for them

[@made-line7627]

@@bore-osofmyr2539 There's not a concrete one in the books, no. I would highly, highly recommend you watch Lucifer Means Lightbringer's new video on the Nights Queen/Night King. It theorises that *they* created (birthed) the Others. I was like "Hang on a minute, he was the 13th LC of the Nights Watch, so why would there even *be* a Nights Watch if not for the Others??" He answered this in a *fantastic* way. You'd like it (if you haven't seen it already)

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Madeline Sartori thank you!! I got the notification of LML’s new video. Will watch it. I always enjoy his analysis.

[@lesvosace602]

Come back soon Chris. I liked this guy before but now i like him more :)

[@evancappello9288]

Your info got me thinking maybe there is something tangible there at the God’s Eye. Like ancient hostages or relics from The Pact that the White Walkers are wanting back; the Prince that was Promised... Love the Collab here guys! Actually got me to subscribe to this channel too! Been with Smokescreen since the beginning!

[@jaela1189]

I just found your channel and catching up on your videos. I am totally enjoying it and find that we come up with similar thoughts on theories. Keep up the good work and know it is appreciated'

[@lexj.2162]

had been looking forward to this for some time, and it didn't disappoint. hope you two work on more material together in the future.

You two should totally do a podcast with bridge4!!!!!! Please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@mackenziekirkpatrick5103]

I’m pretty sure that SmokeScreen is a cover for Danny McBride. His voice is so similar!

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Really astute observations Smoke Screen! Although I don’t think the isle of Faces will appear in the show as they have focused on Soap Opera elements lately. Listening to you two discuss the role of Jon and Dany, he as the balance of Ice and Fire and she as Fire, made me think that both will die and their child if it survives will be raised by Sansa, as a regular baby and her effort to do right by her family at long last.

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

I mean as a plot in the show. It seems like something the showrunners would do. Appropriately soap opera.

[@manuelodonnell1148]

I very much enjoyed this discussion. Still, the idea of a pat resolution that permanently ends a threat seems very un-Martinlike to me. I agree that seeing a diminishing of the Feudal Monarchy in favor of some other form(s) of governing makes sense as an outcome, and I agree that balance between ice and fire must somehow be restored, but I feel that any solution, while likely long-term, should not permanently end the threat, but like the previous Pact, only last for as long as people remember it. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. What I DO think will burn is the Citadel. As a pacifist, Martin makes a point of giving us example after example of the horrors of war, and one of these is the loss of culture and history. The Citadel is the Westerosi version of the Library of Alexandria, and it seems to me that its destruction would fit in well with both Martin's message and the Night King's strategy, since it may hold within it the keys to the White Walkers' destruction, or at least, the keys to forcing a new Pact. I think the burning of the Citadel will come too late, since unknowingly, Sam has probably taken the most important clues with him to Winterfell, but I still think it will happen.

[@deborahz75]

Great discussion. I can't wait for season 8. Thank you for posting.

[@lorimorgan3051]

I couldn’t agree more with you both. I’ve been saying it will end with balance not violence since the beginning. Great video guys.

[@adamcain8949]

Great video. I'm looking for one of yours around this subject. You talk about the Fellowship returning to the Shire, how bittersweet the ending is, that Sam is upset that his tree was cut down and he replants seeds and compare it to how GoT will end. Have any idea which video that is?

[@phbbg69]

I've always thought that scene, where bran and company were prisoners at crasters keep and jojen was saying 'this isn't the end, you'll know the end' and his hand was on fire, would have a deeper meaning than just jojens death. (Some argue that it foreshadowed jojens death but he was weak and dying before he got stabbed and was only set on fire by leafs fire ball afterward) I think the 'fiery hand' leads toward everything burning, or at least bran since it was an answer to brans question about the end.

[@nononono3421]

The false spring was probably a hint of a battle between "ice and fire" beginning, as in, usually seasons would transition linearly but this time it wobbled (if it was normal, it wouldn't have had its own name). So it probably hints at what caused The Others to eventually march after so many years since they last showed up. And isn't the current "summer" very long? Another sign that things are off course since: spring was trying to set in, receded (hence the name false spring), then succeed to settle, which led an usually long summer, and now winter is back even stronger. It's a rising battle. It may have started after the Crannogman Meera mentions went there (Howland Reed). It's the isle where the pact was originally made for peace. So we have this war between "ice and fire" (at least figuratively speaking) starting when Howland leaves the isle or soon before, since it's said he spent the whole winter there before leaving for the tourney, which means he left when the false spring started. Maybe he caused it, maybe he went there because he knew it was coming and wanted to get knowledge in relation to it, who knows. In any case, something drew him there, and the battle between ice and fire has accentuated since. This would mean this all started before Rhaegar crowned Lyanna, before Jon was conceived, before the rebellion.

[@cmarie9817]

Happy New Year fellas. Great collab! You're two of my favorites, along with Joe Magician.

[@IndomitableAde]

At last! Been wanting this since you both did similar videos on Craster's sons and that was a while ago.

[@MrRmcmurray]

Another excellent video, Robert. One thing that came up during this in respect of ‘balance’ made me think about the dragon eggs. Do you think the reason they hatched when they did was done to the reemergence of the Night King? The reason I’m asking is down to the whole subject of ice and fire and symmetry/balance. If the Night King has to die then is it just the dragons that have to die to endure equilibrium? My thoughts are more that the drag ins are simply a vessel for fire whereas the Night King is the source of ice. Surely the fire equivalent, possibly Danny, has to die to have that balance?

[@lydiaquinn2892]

Chris is the man! I really enjoyed this ❤️

[@Katibree]

I read the first part of the title and thought: "Man, he should have got Smokescreen for this." Then read Featuring Smokescreen and laughed

[@tzaph67]

Also Bran is possibly my favourite character, definitely in my top three faves

[@tonelamont1498]

I don't see many people talking about Arya meeting Dany and the Dragons.. She loved targaryean stories and dragons, plus I can't remember her ever mentioning any hate of the targs behind lyanna

[@SmokeScreenVids]

Antonius Lamont I agree, I think she’ll like a warrior queen

[@luminyam6145]

Wonderful video, great analysis, thank you.

[@julesscangojr.35]

My little thought is for the Night King’s curse to be broken, Bran will have to be sacrificed at the Isle of Faces at the Weirwood Heart Tree. He’s connected to the Knight King now like none other. The Night King is already dead, but he’s now connected to a living human (Bran) like we’ve never seen before....he touched Bran during a vision while Bran was communing with a Weirwood Tree. I think Bran and the Knight King need to be stabbed in the heart at the same time. Knight King being stabbed by a flaming sword (Heartsbane perhaps) or vice-versa while Drogon burns up the Tree, Bran and the Knight King. Or something like this haha. Sorry if this sounds dumb. Haven’t read the books, or even know much about them, done some research on them. But mostly just have watched the series and started to watch yours and Smokescreen’s videos. They are good stuff!

[@askthecheesegaming3165]

We need an examination of how the white walkers will operate in winds of winter.

[@briceslorene8760]

Thank you for a different point of view I am going to enjoy my second half of work and listen to it

[@catharinebohm7475]

Great recap on all the theories. I think Stannis' grammar lessons are hinting at the weirwood net too. (I mean the thing about you can have less of something singular but fewer of something plural ... less food, fewer calories ... fewer finger nails to clean, fewer enemies to kill and fewer white walkers). I think there will be some sort of war council and they will have an idea that the Night King is interested in weirwoods. somebody will say, "so why is he heading south. there's less weirwoods in the south." Davos will mutter "fewer. Fewer weirwoods." And while most people are going "what? Eh." Brandon will say, "no. Less tree. There's only one tree." PS I've been angsting over that bloody feather in Lyanna's tomb for years now. Any ideas about its significance?

[@t.k.1319]

Yo when you reference other videos can you include a link in the video or in the description?

[@chriser555]

This is the best theory anyone has brought forward in years. If not ever.

[@hollycooper7177]

Excellent collaboration you guys 👍😊🐺🐲

[@vanessaamesty6739]

I loved this, I like this format, a nice to the point theory discussion

[@lordptk4115]

I totally agree on this theory. Its probably my favorite theory for the End Game since some tim now. I think the fact that Martin likes the bitzersweet style Ending of the Lord of the Rings supports this theory. There too, with the destruction of the "Evil" the destruction of a very powerfull source of magic go hand in hand. After that magic completly vanishes from Middle-Earth. Wich is kinda sad, becouse Magic can create some truly beautiful things(as well as terrible things). So all magic will leave the World of Ice and Fire after this weird revival or of magic at the beginning of the Series, wich could be a last stand of magic before it leaves forever. To break a curse would be a fitting motive for the white walkers and the Night King too. So the Dragons have to die too. Possibly by Jon on a dragon? As a "history repeats itself" A second little Dance of Dragons? Jon against Daenerys, becouse she does'nt accept him as the heir to the Trone.(Acually just a random idea while writing this comment) Would be heartbreking to see Danerys die this way, but i think the won't survive the Great War either way.

[@nytelyte87]

wow great collaboration!!!

[@larryhoyt5834]

Ahhh, but if Jon is of Ned & Ashara he is Ice to Dany's Fire. And he is the Sword of the Morning defending Aegon's, son of Rheagar & Lyanna, flank as they take on the Night King.

[@wjhall307]

That was great. My only concern is for the show. It has virtually ignored the Isle of Faces. It may be a stretch for the casual fan to appreciate it's significance in the few episodes remaining. It's possible that the show may still follow this theory but replace the Isle of Faces as the center of magic with the Weirwood in the godswood at Winterfell. What do you think of that, just for the show?

[@timothymartensen9040]

My two favorite GOT KZbinrs!

[@GabrielPintoMusic]

Better ideas and theories than what we actually got.

[@dhalps23]

Check out Season 4, Episode 7 and the convo from the dying man... The conversation is unbelievably important and GRRM uses this scene as a way to provide a hint in a subtle way with a dying man who appears to mean nothing... Also David & Dan carefully selected the actor to play this part on the tv show... Link here for reference: gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Dying_man_(Mockingbird) *NOTE: Website does not include full convo and must watch to hear what is said about Westeros being out of balance, how there must be balance, and etc... Interesting choice of words.... Might even be able to make a video on this!?!?

[@kyleboerner]

It’d be great to discover that the heart tree having a smiling face

[@NELMOno1]

My only problem with the curse idea is crasters babies. If they see themselves as cursed why would they keep turning crasters boys? You can argue the first ones were for companionship or he needed generals but the more recent ones?

[@yousurf374]

any chance you have obtained the Season 7 bonus disc with animated video of the formation of history of Westeros???? In USA, TARGET store has it as a bonus DVD disc. Not gonna buy it now though. No funds for such stufffffff.

[@saraleesky1479]

Well done. Thanks guys! Though I hate the thought of a world without dragons....

[@WhoIsCalli]

Great discussion 👍

[@artemis8180]

My main problem with this is that in the show the Nights King, whoever he may be can realistically fly his dragon south and burn the Gods Eye very easily (I doubt anyone from the Riverlands or Harrenhall can stop him)

[@St0nebag]

I’ve been wondering how it is that the starks came to power in winterfell...it seems as though bran the builder had a large hand in starting the house, or at least bringing it attention and respect. I was wondering if after the pact the children may have picked the starks to rule because of their greensight abilities, and possibly for other reasons as well. Just curious if anybody else may have an answer or theory as to why/how the starks actually seized the north.

[@katrinfrommypointofview7308]

What a awesome stream 👍

[@oliverlowe1681]

brilliant insights, I do agree that on the isle of faces is the answer to the nk goal and i was thinking about what u was saying about the balance of ice and fire. Do u thik that if the dragons , nk die and the weirwood burns do u think tha faceless men and other magic will die ?

[@airyozone6499]

I’m wondering about Esso type magic, like the Many Faced God-will it too be destroyed if, according to your theory, all magic ceases in Westeros with the destruction of the weir wood net.

[@martinefavol9319]

Happy New Year 2019.. I like your theories on Games of Thrones

[@rjdrakon2492]

If the NK is a Stark of old and he volunteered to take the dagger, wouldn't that be Bran's role, sacrificing himself to save the rest.

[@rjdrakon2492]

Both tbe Others, and the Children have skin that resembles wood, much like Weirwood have bark the resembles human faces.

[@JustSomeGoy]

Will there be a new Night King? How many Night Kings have there been 2? Maybe the Night King cant be killed someone must take his place.

[@joshcoughx]

Happy New Year!

[@InDeepGeek]

And to you!

[@Ash.Crow.Goddess]

Yep. And there will be a churning flood, too.

[@whoaitstiger]

Excellent!

[@guitar19971]

Dude! Can you please do one of these with Secrets Of The Citadel?!

[@CapitalCCapitalC]

History will repeat itself. ♥ Chris!

[@JH-ij2nm]

Smokescreen sounds like Danny McBride

[@491Phantom]

SS and In Deep Geek awesome...

[@neonspecter2730]

This all sounds like too clean and clear an ending. I don't see all these events being wrapped up so neatly.

[@Lyndiloo]

Oh my gosh, I hope somebody covers the D+D=T theory.

[@ericgrabowski3896]

I just thought of something while watching season 7 on HBO. What if Arya ends up with Yara? Also- Beric to Jon ; " you don't look like your father , I suppose you favor your mother."

[@SelphieTheNutter]

I think you are both spot on in regards to how GRRM would likely take his story. Destroying both the white walkers and dragons for good to restore the balance. Which is sad because GRRM writes very in depth stories and characters yet has little to no respect for the beliefs he bases his worlds on. And before I get hated on for saying that let me finish. He has no real respect for the spiritual aspect of his stories. All religious figures in the story are portrayed as either evil, delusional, crazy or all three. Yet he puts restoring the balance (which is a douist belief of yin and yang turned into things like Wicca in GoT) at the heart of his story. He also never gives prophecy any respect and writes it as a avoidable thing. The difference between a prophecy and a prediction is that prophecy is always set to come true, predictions aren't set. Eg, leonidus being told by the orical at delphi that if he went to war he woukd die That is s prophecy, it is a guarantee A prediction changes based on your choice, so say the orical of Delphine gave leonidus a prediction instead, it would have been, guard the pass into the mountains or you will die. It was a prophecy for that reason, nothing would have changed his fate. Yet GRRM throws prophecy around in his books like its a avoidable thing. The Prophecy of the Dothraki for example, Dannies kid was supposed to be the Stallion that mounts the world yethe was never born. That shows he doesn't have any respect for the belief systems he uses for his inspiration and that really upsets me because he's a, very talented writer. Which leads me to why I'm upset with the thought his story is headed the way you suspect. Essos and tge Dothraki have prophecies of the end of the world, and the ghost grass covering the land. That GRRM will likely write off as just a superstition if he kills both the White walkers and the dragons for good. It would make more sense for the final battle between ice and fire to cause the ghost grass to spread.

[@katesullivan4707]

My guess is the big twist is that somehow the Night King is able to communicate and Jon switches sides to help them to save everyone.

[@georgeagathangelou5303]

The folly of this theory is that story is about conflict. Protagonist and antagonist should both be interested in the same thing but with opposite motives. Everyone wanting to destroy the weirwoods lacks this. It would simply be a bad story. The mechanics of a fictional world wont tell you the mechanics of the good story grrm is trying to write will work.

[@mazamonty710]

Yay the Winterfella himself

[@alexone5045]

Great video as always Robert. I agree with you guys this is how the show will end, but the book will be crazier and twisted. However i am such a different person then you i want a ending where i see what happens in the future i dont want to be left wondering lol.

[@TheMoonatDawn]

How does Jon being ice and fire combined mean anything if all that needs to happen is burning of trees? Dany alone with her dragons could do that or anyone frankly. And why would the country move to a political system away from inherited leadership when the answer to this story / crisis is special blood (Targaryen and Stark / fire and ice) coming together? This would just demonstrate to people that a special elite is required, one with a genetically inherited bloodline, to rule just in case another crisis turns up.

[@slade-joseph-wilson1822]

Why is the nightking coming now ? Can any one answer when he decided to build his army and head to westeros ? Cause it would seem he has been building his army for years so did he make a choice and then wait for 500 years ? Or did he first wait all those years and just before the show and books started he decided he was gonne go ?

[@ChrisisisB]

slade-joseph- Wilson A lot of theories say it's because if the return of magic. Either because of the events at Summerhall (an attempt at awakkng dragons), the return of the red comet or the return of dragons (burning of Khal Drogo). Seems to be gradual, Craster sacrificed for a long time, also the magical wall has stood for long. So some magic has existed for long, but maybe he has not had power to pass the wall till now. Also some theories that there was a pact with the others, and this was inadvertently broken in some way (no sacrifice, no Stark in Winterfell, something else).

[@slade-joseph-wilson1822]

@@ChrisisisB well some of those just cant be treu the first episode we saw them close to the wall that was before the comet and before the dragons And magic has always been there cause the children are still there the red priests are alive and even bloodraven so that also not it But if someone could ANSWER the question of when they started to come and when they planned it They could find out why I think its that the living did not hold up there end of the deal But we dont know when or why Thats what i wanted to know

[@johnbell4328]

Ok, so maybe Dani marries the Night King. More likely Jon has to kill Arya; the third shock and a historical resonance.

[@SUFI201010]

True ICE and FIRE is Dany and the night King

[@dhalps23]

I do not believe the God’s Eye will be overtaken, damaged/burned, or etc... In Season 4, the dying guy who is killed by the hound as a mercy kill talks about the lack of balance in Westeros, and mentions an even exchange... I think this is super important... It’s Season 4, and it’s right before Arya kills & gets revenge on Rorge after Biter bites the Hound on the neck.... Check it out and rewatch the convo - it’s where Hound shows Arya where the heart is to kill people... This convo is super important, but given the context & how this is a nobody guy whose dying who knows where in the middle Of Westeros as Arya & the Hound wander around looking for safety, however the convo is super important... It’s definitely a GRRM way to do this important info/convo in a way that does not come off that way... It’s a MUST WATCH.

[@oliverlowe1681]

I think that the Last longnight was caused not 8000 yrs ago but about 5000 yrs ago due to the arrival of the Andals and the maesters changed the timeline to take away the blame from themselves. The clues to this is that the Firstmen who only had bronze , somehow obtained IRON which they used to keep in the vengeful spirits of the Kings of winter in the crypts and also in the crowns iron and bronze had been woven together possibly implying a forging of alliance of the starks with the ANdals. I believe that the cotf who were residing in Highheart were being helped by the firstmen but the inferior weapons of bronze and the children were not enough to save them... The first men never broke the pact to trigger the Others but the others knowing no difference between the Humans hunt everyone down until the coftf and azorahai or last hero force them back . Also the other clue that the timeline is wrong is if azor ahai is true and had Dragon steel then that also implies the rise of valaria must have already occured meaning he could have been valerian.. The others hated iron fire and the touch of the sun which only the Andals brought , fire and the touch of the sun could represent the seven pointed star of the faith of the seven..Why would the Kings of winters spirits be vengeful, to whom are they vengeful the andals ? are they ww ? and why does iron stop them. Like sam said the maesters said that they were knights riding around when they were no knights meaning if not all that the maesters write is fabricated so you can only go on clues that are deemed factual like Iron which old nan says to bran in her story but then george throws u off by nan saying that the longnight was before the andals arrived but it cant be as firstmen had no iron.. i know its a bit long but what do you tink Robert ? Do you think the arrival of the Andals caused the last longnight ?

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Oliver Lowe wow you hit some really good points!! It’s worth looking into.

[@oliverlowe1681]

Thanks check woiaf ,,, Riverlands , longnight, nights watch .Mostly all that TRUE HISTORY mention is fabricated by the maesters of the FAITH OF THE SEVEN IE ANDALS. iam not sure about this theory but in the DANCE OF DRAGONS there is infact a male coftf in the caves of BLOODRAVEN which Bran sees intwined into The weirwood so maybe the fact no male children have been seen outside could indicate that initially the Children were controling the Nk by warging into him and after the pact the children stopped warging into him and gave him free reign and he never forgot or something happened to alot of the male children and they could no longer control him , a stretch maybe but who knows.

[@jorenvanderark3567]

I completely agree with alabastur in this theory

[@Hernameispamela]

I really didn’t consider Shireen’s death as a WTF moment. Sure it was horrible, but kinda predictable, like Oberin’s death. Hodor’s thing was totally unexpected and therefore a true WTF moment. I would say Viserion’s death was way more shocking and the repercussions were way more WTF worthy. I also believe the end game has everything to do with the Isle of Faces.

[@taracollins4837]

So will Jon be called aegon the 3rd? Since there has been a couple aegons. I think danarys is by Ned stark. I think ghost was meant for for dany and drogon for jon. But that's just what I think

[@nononono3421]

Jon will be called Jon Snow, bastard of Ned Stark, who tried to usurp the throne with mad Daenerys, and even destroyed the wall with her dragons' help, who let Wildlings invade the north, after breaking his Night Watch vows. That's how he'll be remembered, even if it's a lie, one he must accept, for the realm.