INEOS Grenadier Offroad Review & Comparison : Australia

[@elliot330]

Quite literally the best offroad review of the Grenadier I've seen, thank you and the owner for allowing it and filming it too..

[@markelliott6105]

Best Grenadier review yet, by far. You nail it with pragmatic appraisal supported by clear facts and comparisons. Looking forward to the next part.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it, please share :-)

[@prasannakurukuladithya7630]

@@L2SFBC What is the reason in your opinion that CTIS has not hit the 4WD community in Australia ? There are portal axles; various locker systems; ECDS shock absorbers etc. But CTIS not promoted by anyone for Landcruisers, Patrols,Hinos and for Isuzu trucks. Tyre pressure is a crucial element which should be in the apex from anyone’s modification list. You should have the ability to adjust tyre pressure on the fly depending on the terrain.

[@mungbean84]

​@@prasannakurukuladithya7630Probably the added complexity issue. Most manufacturers can barely make their chassis strong enough to withstand the off-road touring conditions in Australia, let alone CTIS.

[@MTNDOG39]

And I didnt have to hear again why it was created!

[@markelliott6105]

@@MTNDOG39 YES! If I hear that backstory one more time…

[@GrenadierMichael]

As others have said, best Grenadier off road review worldwide to date. 🙂 Very much looking forward to driving mine in similar conditions. So far I’ve only done high range tracks. One thing you might be interested in … an INEOS rep in one of the overseas videos said that Off Road mode also changes throttle response. I’m not sure if that’s true. Not mentioned in the Owner's Manual.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Michael, appreciated! I didn't notice a difference in throttle response, nor did INEOS mention it in emails to me, or in the owner's manual. I don't think it's necessary. Chances are it's remapped in low range anyway, or maybe with a centre lock.

[@nickdattner8680]

I have a Defender with rear lockers. I drive defensively. I avoid trouble. That said, all I have to do when I get inside is, turn it on and drive and I must say, being off road a lot, that is still very appealing. They are like a horse - feed them, love them and use them. I hope the Grendadier evolves in the same way.

[@daviddevaus436]

A very informative assessment t of some important aspects of the vehicle that I have not seen well addressed in other reviews. I really appreciate Robert's evenhanded approach - such a welcome contrast to so much commentary.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you, I do try and be fair.

[@kelumV]

Great review with facts..unlike other youtube influencers/fans with crazy arguments

[@nickdattner8680]

Easily the most comprehensive review to date, by anyone, anywhere. What stands out is that an owner of this vehicle is going to have to love it to forgive its sins. And that is a conundrum.

[@L2SFBC]

Why "forgive its sins" and isn't that the same for any other car?

[@philhealey4443]

Taking the rough with the smooth is not exactly a new problem to those of us that typically run iconic 4x4 vehicles for ten years plus, with the superiority of effortless capability offset from getting cricks in the neck admiring the thing when walking away, ripping endless items of clothing on sharp door latches when getting out, putting up with the noise, vibration, water leaks, glacial acceleration, conceding modern ABS might be useful, with the biggest regrets being the ultimate selling, not the buying. And often losing very little money annually in the lifecycle process. Grenadier seems to tick most of the positive boxes.

[@stevenyeates76]

Great review Robert - always appreciate your unbiased view and technical analysis.

[@nnoddy8161]

Robert - just brilliant. Best review so far on the Ineos. Congrats to you and those who donated the vehicle. Thanks

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@nnoddy8161]

@@L2SFBC your style reminds me of Peter Wherrett - a former credible motoring journalist from a bygone era.

[@JimmyDevere]

Excellent video. This should be the standard for all off road vehicle reviews.

[@L2SFBC]

Wow, thanks!

[@tacticalfrog0152]

Wow! I'm thoroughly impressed by the amount of detail and useful information in your review. You sir just earned a subscriber!

[@L2SFBC]

Welcome aboard! Thanks

[@ikuk172]

Nice to see a clear unbiased video

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it!

[@duncan-xg9sh]

As others have said, best review of this vehicle by far, and really appreciate the unbiased no-nonsense presentation.

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you

[@andrewwiltshire2689]

Best review so far, factual objective and informed

[@cyclemoto8744]

Although a quick production, this has been the best review of the Grenadier which I've seend. Thank you Robert.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

Robert, the best Ineos review to date. Thanks for sharing this video and thanks to your supporters for sharing there new Ineos. It’s about time for reviews from experience for drivers, and independent to Ineos controlled testers. I’m shocked at the short winch rope and the lack of easy access to the winch. So I look forward to your road report and I think it’s time to wait for the next revision for offroad adventure use .

[@L2SFBC]

My pleasure!

[@robinireland810]

Red Winch (a local company to my area, and very helpful) emphasised that the Grenadier winch is a self recovery winch, and that alone. They also explained in detail how they had to conform to European Pedestrian Impact laws which cost them (and Ineos) a fortune to comply to. That’s why the winch is set back in the front chassis crossmember as opposed to being further forward (which would result in non compliance of impact regs). However, Red Winch have released an aftermarket alternative (thereby freeing up Ineos from OE fitment litigation issues) called the Nomad, which has double the rope capacity to that of the factory fitted winch. But the owner (in Europe) would have to declare the fitment for Off Road Use Only, as with any exposed winch that could injure a pedestrian.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

@@robinireland810 fair enough, but down underwear allowed to have bow bars on the front of the Ineos Grenadier so why not a normal winch from one of the more popular brands like Warn etc. My personal Suzuki Jimny has a 5,500 lb Axom winch and a number of people point out that my 15 metre cable is too short and it’s a pain but works for me just. Why would anyone pay for an overpriced winch with a short cable?

[@robinireland810]

@@overland_adventure_nz being UK based, I can’t answer to NZ or Australian legislation; you may well be able to mount an exposed winch in your countries. The addition of bull bars and other protection measures would be a no brainer too, but here in the UK we’re limited to what type of cotton wool we can tie on the front (as long as it carries an allergy warning). We can’t even add the optional chequer plate wing top protectors, as they too contravene European Pedestrian impact regs!! I looked at the pricing of the Ineos accessory list and compared their prices to the retail market; surprisingly, Ineos have put minimal markup on their accessories, with most of them showing no more than 5% at current prices. Fundamentally, I’d agree with you that the Grenadier winch is overpriced. If it was delivered in a cardboard box on its own, then yes, it would be massively overpriced. However, without wishing to defend their pricing, you have to take into consideration how much it costs a vehicle manufacturer to obtain Type Approval for a winch (or other externally fitted device) to be fitted as an OE fitment option as opposed to being an aftermarket accessory. As briefly touched on in previous post, it took Ineos and Red Winch (who I think were formally branded as Warne) two years to get Type Approval to fit a winch as OE fitment. Some of the price is probably reflected in that (in my opinion). Also, you’re not just buying the winch. You’re paying for upgraded suspension, a modified front chassis member, a fully approved wiring harness built into the vehicles main loom, plus all the bracketry and extra manhours it takes for Pierre and Gaston to install it all. Plus you’re getting a full Ineos warranty for at least 2 years on the winch, which is more than what Red Winch offer if purchased independently. You can’t buy the OE winch from Red Winch as it was designed exclusively for Ineos and can only be installed during the vehicle’s manufacture. I wholeheartedly agree that 15m of rope is not enough, but the physical constraints of the chassis crossmember and having to set it back made it impossible for the designers to up the rope capacity. So if you’re seriously considering buying a Grenadier and you’re expecting to be using a winch on a regular basis to recover other vehicles as well as your own, then the OE fitment winch most likely isn’t suitable, and an aftermarket item, plus all related suspension and fitting upgrades would be the best route. Again, in my humble opinion. All the best. My 2 seater Commercial Grenadier will come with the OE winch, and part of my permanent kit will include recovery gear (from Red Winch) as well as trauma 1st Response kit and a defibrillator. I’m hoping I never have to use any of them.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

@@robinireland810 Hi, thanks. I didn’t know that the chassis was upgraded for the winch, and I do appreciate the pre wiring of the winch. Just disappointed that a manual transmission is not available standard and I would have to replace the automatic transmission myself once it comes. I’m going to now wait a few more months before thinking about placing an order.

[@paultucker4923]

A very honest appraisal, given the impromptu nature of the test . Thanks Robert , well done (again).

[@mukwanofred9147]

Thanks, this is best review video for this vehicle so far

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it!

[@raymondallo9947]

What an outstanding review. Balanced, to the point and excellent reference comparisons. 10/10. I really like the Grenadier, but my heart is with our Defender 110. We will probably get a Grenadier when V1.1 comes out, but it will sit beside the Defender. The Defender is an heir loom. Daughter has already claimed it.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@marcgerges1380]

The best Grenadier test drive- Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it!

[@TOYOTA.Overland]

Lots of practical and concrete insights. Thumbs up for Robert 😎👍

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@billoddiea]

Superb knowledge and production...no fluff, just right proper expertise.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@billoddiea]

@@L2SFBC You put all these other blah blah hyperbole merchants to shame. So refreshing to have someone composed and to the point.

[@fredbrackely]

Finally, a proper off-road review!! Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

More to come! Please share :-)

[@danielfogden]

This is fantastic! A very thorough approach not covered by any other channel.

[@L2SFBC]

Much appreciated!

[@ferrugenfish]

Excellent video thank you so much for covering the Grenadier so thoroughly as I'm super interested in them and future iteration. Looking forward to more!

[@L2SFBC]

More to come!

[@johnjackman7622]

I hope you feel validated Robert that you have such a scoop on other tubers getting to review this. You know the guys I mean that get all emotional about how they think and feel with a vehicle. You are just factual and on point giving objective, quality information. Well done.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks John!

[@dadventuretv2538]

This is the type of review I have been waiting for. Thank you.

[@user-yl9vs9eh1w]

This was very nice & balanced review, none of the daydreaming of what it could be/should be instead but just clear undisputable facts almost. I am fan of this car for the very reason more choice is always better and it's better to offer differently positioned niche each time than carbon copy competitor to someone else. The US guys want it to be like Bronco/Wrangler (but also cheaper), the UK guys want to be absolute spiritual successor to Defender (so mainly cheaper), the AUS guys want it to be 70-series copy but also miraculously cheaper at same time.. If I didn't have LC 150, and the upcoming one wasn't looking as great as it does (love the new GX 550), this would have been my choice. Perhaps they slightly missed the launch opportunity and it doesn't absolutely live up to the hype of 3 years (nothing ever does when we're allowed to dream for too long) but they have done amazing job nonetheless. The looks of it alone make it easy to love imho :- ).

[@L2SFBC]

It's not Bronco/Wrangler. The USA doesn't really do workhorse wagons like this one. Thanks for the comment!

[@stephenhankey688]

This was good,very good it has not dampened my enthusiasm, no bull, in this video true to life, its definitely as good as anything out there, as it should be, built for purpose, that was the brief and i think they've achieved it,from Steve near Chester England 🇬🇧 where the Roman's once lived.

[@L2SFBC]

I would doubt that any potential purchases are put off the car as a result of this review. Maybe not buy the winch if there's an alternaitve, but there's not.

[@trickster8635]

That was a great exposure video and to date a more aussie revelation of capability than the UK versions simply driving around muddy paddocks. looking forward to a more in depth driving appreciation from you, ie fast, corrugated, gravel outback roads.

[@L2SFBC]

Hopefully I can get lent a car and evaluate that, and tow! I did some dirt-road driving in high range but insufficient for me to form conclusions. However, AWD, decent handling...I'm expecting it to be okay to good.

[@trickster8635]

@@L2SFBC Yes, agree but curious about front wheel wobble at speed as depicted in earlier video's, much the same gremlin as that plaquing Jeep. Steering geometry should have been sorted I hope.

[@L2SFBC]

Only one way to find out!!!

[@6226superhurricane]

@@trickster8635 so called death wobble is a characteristic of all solid axle 4wd's. all of them can or will do it with worn parts incorrect castor or wheel alignment.

[@philipkearns9757]

Absolutely excellent video. As informative as it’s possible to get. Appreciated the comparisons against other vehicles on the same stages. Thank you.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@repentuklondonwatchman1373]

SHALOM BROTHER. EXCELLENT REVIEWS. ACTUALLY,, THE BEST OF THEM ALL

[@mikewho9964]

Yes best Grenadier off road review with actual hard conditions - glad it preformed very well - considering its grenadiers first build !

[@funvangroovn176]

I always love your thorough and detailed assessment. It's nice you use similar terrain in your videos, too. Keep up the great work...it's a real service to the community! In a future video, I would love to see at what speed you can engage the Grenadier's center diff. The use case would be when traveling at speed on high traction surface like tarmac and then transitioning to a low traction surface like loose gravel or even snow / ice.

[@No-thing-ness]

I’ve been awaiting this. Thanks so much

[@L2SFBC]

You are so welcome!

[@drgloverable]

AT last a technically focussed review! Thankyou. Would love to see suspension flex / droop measurements.

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately I feel like it doesn't have very good ground clearance though. I'm surprised that compared to an old disco I mean it's 20 years newer they should compare to a Wrangler Rubicon and a Bronco Sasquatch

[@kennycui6180]

Learn a lot about disengage the locker. Thanks. 😊

[@L2SFBC]

Glad to help

[@boywonder6659]

Excellent video. Thank you.

[@frankguernier2280]

An excellent off road review.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it!

[@croaker4747]

If this company is still around in 10 years I’ll give it a look. Great review,

[@ghettomist1575]

Ineos is a huge company, massive in chemical production. The cars are just a passion project. Would be interesting to see how long they do it for.

[@robinireland810]

Ditto other comments on how good this review is. As a note, you can factory option 18” wheels which may correspond with Ineos’s ground clearance claims. Red Winch should have released their Grenadier compatible Nomad winch by now, which doubles the rope capacity. So it may be prudent to configure your Grenadier without a winch and talk to Red Winch about availability. They are local to me, and super helpful. They also made it clear that their Grenadier winch is a self recovery winch, nothing more. So bear that in mind when ordering. I’m assuming your testing was performed with an unloaded vehicle? If so, it would be good to chuck a dozen bags of cement in the back and do the same test, as I’d assume most Aussie’s are going to be fairly well laden, if not overladen! Top channel, Robert. By a long way.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks! The 18" wheels would use lower profile tyres so the overall diameter of the tyre and thus ground clearance remains the same. What's a "self recovery winch" as opposed to any other type?

[@robinireland810]

@@L2SFBC I’ll pass that on to Red Winch, as that was their response to me when I discovered their Grenadier winch had only 15m of rope (of which they claim has a usable 13m) and questioned the limited capacity. They’re local to me, and were extremely helpful and informative when explaining the nightmare of gaining Type Approval for supplying Ineos with an OE fitment winch. They also mentioned that their new Nomad winch would address the rope capacity issue. It has a Grenadier fitting kit (external I presume), so should be ideal for the Australian market. If fitted to a UK Grenadier I imagine there would be an issue with insurance if involved in a collision on a public road as externally fitted (read aftermarket) winches would be for “off road use only” with the exception of Emergency Services and military.

[@WhateverItTakesLIVE]

Grenadier looks so good

[@kathyl67]

Great video for people considering buying one for sure!

[@tindogmedia1216]

Whatta' scoop! Hadn't even heard of these before this. Well done.

[@jag5695]

Robert Pepper over andrew pierre white anyday of the week. Amazing review.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

All the 4wders have their good and bad points.

[@bertplank8011]

​@@Robert-cu9bmneither White or this chap are up to scratch....both somewhat odd. Better to get Aussies to do the testing.

[@antone5462]

Excellent review . The Grenadier will only get better going forward.

[@L2SFBC]

I expect so yes!

[@TopOfTheRiverKangarooisland]

a long way to go forward yet

[@hoyks1]

One thing about the Ranger and BT50 diff locks: they continue to indicate that the the locker is fully functional, even when they don't actually work because the crown wheel has eaten the wires to the solenoid.

[@jampot20000]

Best review I have watched thanks

[@L2SFBC]

Wow, thanks! Please share :-)

[@300bhpton]

Great video, thanks for the format and structure of the review. Bit of a shame the Disco 2's traction control wasn't working, that would have made a nice comparison to the system on the Grenadier.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks for watching!

[@myauctionaddictionestatesa7451]

And THAT is why you do not count on traction control, you count on LOCKERS!

[@alexwbakker]

I'd love to see: high range washboard road performance - comfort, noise, etc. I'd love to see this analysis repeated with 33s to see whether the low range/weight transfer are effected with more tire. I'd also love to see your take on on-road performance given the slow steering. Last, I'd love to see this track repeated with ~80% of max load.

[@L2SFBC]

Great suggestion!

[@deldridg]

This is what I've been looking for - a true review of the IG's off-road systems and abilities. Thank you Robert and to the lucky owner for making it happen. Very well structured, filmed and produced. Nice to have a credible reviewer on the case! Cheers from Sydney - Dave

[@Khaos_1325]

Just found the channel and really enjoyed the content, subbed. Great to see the Grenadier on real tracks. No chance I would option that winch now, especially considering the price of it. As for the locker light not turning off that would drive me crazy, no real excuse for it.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks for the sub. Yes, I've had a comment someone from for ONE KILOMETER before it switched off. Reason is no wheel speed difference. Annoying!

[@rexringschott]

Great comprehensive review.

[@jonatday]

What I want to see in the next video is how you can take an angle grinder to the DPF under the floor on the BMW engine to create enough clearance to then hammer the footwell flat on a RHD model. Then you might have some room for your left foot! This vehicle has massive potential to be modified by the owners if they want to start hacking it around (and invalidate the warranty) but thats good right, its your vehicle do as you choose if you want

[@L2SFBC]

One owner has removed the footrest and found it to be much larger than required, so there's that.

[@mubarakal-mansouri5979]

Thank you for the best review so far. Would like to see: -Sand performance -Rock Performance -Wading performance -Towing /Hauling with Accessories info (this is a must) -Mileage city/ highway -Storage and roof rack

[@L2SFBC]

May do some of that

[@MondoCat]

Great a proper review thanks, i just found you channel and subscribed. keep up the good work

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks!

[@JerryFlint6]

Just found your channel Robert. Very informative and a great way of explaining the capabilities of the IG. Must look at mine, I am sure the labelling of switches on the OH panel are different. I will be back to see the 2nd episode.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, is yours left hand drive?

[@tempestv8]

The 300 Series GR-S is equipped with 265/65x18" which is same nominal diameter as the Grenadier's 265/70x17" - I do agree that this is a slightly small size compared to what is standard for Y62 Patrol, etc. Disengaging / engaging the lockers is a general pain in the butt for even ARB air lockers. The best system is the computer controlled Land Rover Defender. But the jury is out on the Defender's locker reliability in the long run. Land Rover's traction control is head and shoulders above every other make but the Grenadier's system looks reasonably well calibrated.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, same size; I feel that given how offroad-oriented the Grenadier is, it should have gone larger. I did not make the same criticism of the LC300 when I did the preview drive as that car is more multi-purpose than the Grenadier.

[@johnny_w]

Nice off road test 👍 But I would have liked to see it compared to the New Defender 😉

[@L2SFBC]

Maybe soon...

[@stephenadamczyk8903]

Wow! Great review!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@landcruiser1055]

Great video Rob. I always enjoy your content. One thing I noticed though is you have a bad habit of driving with your thumbs in the wheel. 👍

[@L2SFBC]

The thumbs-out thing is more for vehicles without power steering or dampers. My thumbs are not hooked hard in, and if they've not been broken yet, I doubt they ever will be. I have driven Series Land Rovers and G60s etc offroad, that's an entirely different steering story!

[@robertlinva9503]

Really an excellent review. You addressed many of my concerns/interests. Did you satisfy yourself that the ground clearance was acceptable after all?

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, it's more than acceptable, it's excellent. Just not the 264mm claimed.

[@Kimd38243]

Widening the stance would make it more appealing to me.

[@phaethon3124]

could be interesting to see on a skid pan/snow ,maybe if back heavy it spins rather than drifts...i can see you might choose 1st gear low instead of descent mode on a steep winding snowy road...it isnt necessary to be balanced in a skid sideways but it adds confidence

[@robertWohlers]

Robert... Many thanks mate for this review. You share great information. I'm anxious to get behind the wheel on one these vehicles, or perhaps purchase one. So disappointing about the winch mount drawbacks and frame-mounted recovery points not allowing a 4.75 Ton metal anchor shackle. So easy to engineer from conception; shame INEOS in my opinion. Love the strong live/solid axles plus the front AND rear axle lockers. Sorry Land Rover, I'd purchase a Grenadier LONG before I'd buy a new Defender. with the Grenadier I still worry about repair parts worldwide (unlike the "no worry" of getting parts for a Toyota or some Jeeps, and other vehicles that have been mass produced). When INEOS gets multi-thousands of these vehicles in the field, then my worry will be minimized. Repair parts availability is important to me since I teach my students to "Prepare for all things" and to choose a vehicle that will comfortably take you RSI - Remote, Solo (no other vehicles with you), and International. When off-roading, there is no more "worse" context of RSI. Cheers Robert.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks Bob that means a lot coming from you. The 4.75 does fit one way around only on the front, rear both ways easily. As per my pic I'm thinking of having to put it on blind under mud or water and therefore if that loop was a fraction larger that'd be good. Interested in your thoughts re winch...I don't think it's unusable but I'd definitely take an aftermarket bar and winch instead.

[@iainmackay7915]

The Land Cruiser would be the best bet and made the hill climb look the easiest. Grenadier is a very cool vehicle.

[@tommy4244]

I wanted to like the Grenadier and thought that it would be a car I kept for a lifetime. Sadly it’s on road manners are lacking with the steering being close to being dangerous. I’ll continue to watch the car to see if Ineos take on feedback from drivers and decide to remedy the shortcomings.

[@richardedwards2947]

Better than a G Wagen? My 2013 V6 diesel three lockers standard manual fix in low ratio so can start off in 7th if necessary . Lacking hill descent but off road ABS program full articulation on beam axles and same ground clearance . 100 l tank, High ratio has modified Merc 4 matic. Will run on 16 in rims. No centre diff lock in high range a downer. Seems on a par with Ineos IMHO!!

[@L2SFBC]

Well you already mentioned just one reason I feel the Grenadier is better...and I was talking offroad capability only. 100L tank good, but also consider fuel consumption.

[@paulriggs42]

Great review Rob ! Would love to have a closer look at this vehicle….it’s what I’d choose if I was in the market for a 4WD….and could afford one.

[@davidmorris9984]

Good honest review, however I’m not convinced with the vehicle. I have followed the progress of Inios since the initial announcement and was fortunate to attended one of the prototype events in Qld in January 2022. Not allowed to drive, but driven around a very easy off road track. My thoughts are now what they were at the time, what does it do differently to my 2021 Prado, with a bullet proof reputation and a strong dealer network? Not a lot, and not worth the huge price premium, or risk over the GLX Prado which has greater output in power and torque. Maybe the Grenadier is finger in the air to LandRover whom refused allow access to design details of their old Defender; and I understand attempted legal action on the design? Brits are brilliant at quirky designs; however BMW are not renowned for either reliability or longevity, ( just check product review and USA consumer reviews, and of course the awful Mini). With unproven after sales support buyers are likely to be the “look at me brigade”and with the new Prado due in 2024 competition will be ferocious. However good the reviews are, the success of the Grenadier will rest on well informed consumers taking a holistic view of their vehicle purchase. I really admire Jim Radcliffe’s persistence in pushing this project to completion, just hope it doesn’t get left behind and become the mini disc of the automobile industry.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes and that's my central point. The Grenadier won't go anywhere your Prado can't follow, for a much cheaper price.

[@stuartallan3641]

Great review. I would like to see the performance of this vehicle on the same terrain loaded for a trip

[@morphius131]

It’s the same on every vehicle, I have a 1990 w461 G I need to steer to disengage the locks, they lock on wheel slip and disengage when the whole transmission is loose. I think tho only weak point of the car is the badly positioned steering wheel damper which will go out of use in the first rock

[@andrewhurstcars]

Good review. Grenadier traction control seems too slow, it seems to allow the wheel to spin a lot before it kicks in, whereas the new Defender system only allows far less slip.

[@L2SFBC]

It's not as good as Toyota or Land Rover, but it's good enough.

[@peopleschamp7258]

That is the hallmark of LR. I would say the traction control was pretty good in the IG. In many of situations, you would have locked the diff before attempting. Plus most people will have the electronic diff in the l663 so the on traction control would be the front wheel.

[@nealesmith1873]

Very interesting. You mentioned that lockers are not always better than brake traction control. Do you have a video on that topic? It would be very interesting to understand that.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, search my channel for 'traction control'. BTC is better in situations where you need to turn.

[@nealesmith1873]

@@L2SFBC Thanks

[@hmp125]

looking forward to the touring issue. Hope it will include such things as spring sag with different ball weights and loading conditions. Have never seen a video of a loaded vehicle. Just wonder why Ineos have never shown a fully-loaded vehicle.

[@L2SFBC]

Won't be fully loaded sorry but will cover other items

[@jameshoward9700]

Excellent assessment. Fair and reasoned, unbiased. It strikes me as a unique vehicle in the modern 4x4 sector - combining modern TC and drivetrain/transmission with traditional chassis, suspension and axle design (isn't this what we've all been looking for?). Do you think the slightly inferior (to LR/T) BTC is a firmware update away from making it as capable as other BTC systems on metal sprung vehicles (ie no ability to shuttle spring rate/ride height as on Defender/Discovery)? I can't see any reason mechanically why it couldn't be 'upload update' refined to be as capable as Toyota's.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks - the BTC may be a firmware issue, depends if the underlying hardware can handle it. Probably can. For BTC to be effective you need very sensitive and granular wheel speed sensors and then braking capability. I would expect the hardware to be in place, and the calibration need improvement. Possibly they took the view that people would just always use lockers. Well, doesn't work like that, lockers aren't always better.

[@jameshoward9700]

Cheers fella. Interesting. I'd imagine JLR/Toyota's wheel speed sensors are third party supplier products anyway, but the software very much proprietary (and in JLR's case with TR2, their most important piece of intellectual property). Considering how long it's taken for BTC to exceed good ol' mechanical grip, there must be a lot of development required. Will be interesting to see if Ineos are happy to offer firmware updates as and when, rather than requiring you buy a new vehicle... As you know in soggy blighty, BTC performance is vital on simple wet climbs and its here that I've found modern JLR product unbeatable (though we have no LC300 or Patrol).@@L2SFBC

[@L2SFBC]

There is precedent. Ford improve the BTC in the Everest (you don't get that in the UK) with a software update, so there is hope.

[@syncrosimon]

Great job. Thanks.

[@bobcornford3637]

Really good review, pity you've not put against a Defender

[@L2SFBC]

Maybe soon....

[@GavinEarnshaw]

The difference wheelbase makes. Disco is pretty short at 100" (2.54m). Gren 115" (2.9m), 127"

[@L2SFBC]

Yes that's a difference for sure. Ranger is 3.2m.

[@PumpUptheJam81]

I would imagine you do not want to winch in park because it puts an enormous amount of stress on the parking pawl. You want to winch with brakes held and hood (bonnet up) in case of a cable snap. And of course the engine should be running so that you do not run down the battery (but I understand wanting the last ditch effort but I would surmise they want to make it dummy proof for the masses).

[@L2SFBC]

You should have the option if needs be. The bonnet need not be up, and in some cases should not be.

[@Ahto42]

HDC needs to brake every wheel independently. So If the axle lockers are engaged, then when a wheel is in the air and it is stopped by the ABS, then the car would be still and no rolling down the hill

[@the_yesnt1358]

I'm hoping they make a paired down version that they could sell for like 50-60k that more people can afford, the super high base price is kinda anti-defender

[@L2SFBC]

Sadly can't happen

[@the_yesnt1358]

@@L2SFBC Honestly if they just dropped the aircraft style overhead panel, the Recaro seats they could bring the price down quite a bit, but they won't do that.

[@phlfly10]

question: can you put 33 or 35's into Grenadier ? Cargo organizing. - How is floor design so it can be bolt down a draw system or slider Option to use side tie points. It looks like bunch of the but do they useful? Like on rear quarter panel has one track, it feels like a prefect place to use "Molle" panels. Does fit a large fuel cell? \ The roof length? RTT like ikamper fit? tire Inflation system is really useable with 33/35 inch tires.

[@warren6899]

From South Africa thanks for the disco comparison my discovery is a 2002 td5 facelift. For the money, I don't see anything compelling to upgrade. I do not have cross axle lockers. Buy that can be are aftermarket. I no longer do much rough roading, but have been caught out on passes etc. Thank you. Consise review.

[@LandRover-i4d]

The Disco 2 must have had its traction controlled disabled given the locker fitment. They had a good TCS. It was a better offroader as one would expect than Ineos once both were locked. Better travel too. The banging from both front and rear ends in the Ineos is not ideal. Cheers

[@L2SFBC]

Yes was disabled.

[@syncrosimon]

My old VW Syncro with vacuum lockers was just the same, needed steering angle on to get the locker to disengage.

[@TD5rage]

I would like to know your thoughts on how easy it is to maintain for the home mechanic I.E. replacing brake pads, shocks and springs for a 2” lift, all the filters and oils, how good is the underbody protection from factory. Great video 👍

[@L2SFBC]

Can't say at this point, but I did take a look underneath and can't see any issues with suspension swaps, brakes etc.

[@Captain-Donut]

❤️🙏 Love from Scotland 🙏❤️

[@JohnEash]

Hi Robert, What tire pressure were you running on the Grenadier and is that the tire pressure you would recommend for the type of off roading your were doing. Also, If on sand or dunes, what tire pressure would you recommend. The Grenadier I have ordered has the same rim and tire size as the one in the video. Fantastic Video, best informative review I have seen on the Grenadier! DaBull

[@L2SFBC]

We ran at road pressures in order to test the vehicles. Usually you would drop to 20psi for that terrain, maybe 18, maybe 25...depends on many factors. Sand pressures I cover here kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3-ThZlomr6De5o

[@yuvalmei-dan9950]

At l;ast, some real inbiase review... Can you further elaborate on the car's workmanship? ther wewr complaint about poor wiring, loom connectors, steering on tarmac roads,/ What about accessories - I see you have a buullbar installed, What about UJF radio? Hi Lift contact /lift points? drawers? etc? How can one attach a Warn whinch? How dfoes the car eract fullu loade - fridge, off-road equipment, camping kits, food, 4 adults?How are thr rear seats for two adult while offroading?

[@L2SFBC]

Build quality is good. Road I'll cover another time. UHF would be easy. Drawers can be built. The vehicle *cannot* take a standard lowmount - I did cover that. It wasn't loaded, that'd be next.

[@bakepl]

Heavy towing review please around 3.0T. Given the good gvm, gcm, axle loads, tow capacity looks class leading on paper.. is it?

[@L2SFBC]

If I can get a car, then yes, also towing. The touring video will be a weights analysis for towing - spoiler - it's looking good. But I'd like to tow practically too.

[@bakepl]

@@L2SFBC Took an educated punt on this as a good out of the box tow platform having followed the build and specs, one I can park at the shops, do the occasional off road adventure, legally tow something heavy and not have to spend another squillion dollars (after having to already spend a squillion dollars on a new 4x4) on upgrading suspension, cooling, oil catch-can, additional fuel filter, aux battery, off road tyres etc etc to then have a questionable driveline warranty should a claim need to be made. Well presented video thank you and look forward to your 'Heavy vehicle towing review of the Ineos Grenadier' 😀

[@MattBlack6]

Hi Robert I am a tow truck driver and I quite often look at these things from the angle of my job. In the event of an electrical failure or the engine not running, can this vehicle with that electronic BMW shifter be put into neutral? Now obviously if it has a manual lever to put the transfer case into neutral this will not be a problem. A lot of BMW vehicles that I deal with have no way to put the vehicle into neutral without climbing underneath removing bash plates and manually selecting it on the side of the transmission.

[@L2SFBC]

I don't know, but suspect it wouldn't matter as the t'case could be put into neutral. Could any Grenadier owners confirm one way or the other please? An excellent question.

[@petermills1402]

Robert, on a few videos we hear about the post 2020 Hilux/Fortuner/Prado traction control being very good and some say it is better than just the rear diff lock in the same vehicle. Would you be able to test this, maybe throw in a new Ranger with its traction control and just rear diff lock as I believe the Ranger permits the front traction control to work with the rear diff lock. Maybe this will interest some of us. This video was interesting, thankyou.

[@L2SFBC]

Cross-axle lockers vs Brake Traction Control is interesting. It is not a one better than other, both have their place. In many cases, a vehicle with good BTC will outperform one that has a rear locker and a non-BTC from diff; Mitsu Pajero as but one example. Twin locked cannot be beaten for rocky climbs though, but Toyota's Crawl Control comes very very close. Since PX2 Ranger has allowed BTC on front axle, locker on rear, and HDC with rear locker, so a bit disappointed INEOS did not offer same in Grenadier. Hope that helps.

[@rjakoet]

Did the disco 2 have the 3 amigos as passengers? Would've been great to see a disco 2 with working traction control as a comparison.

[@L2SFBC]

No, solo

[@Ardventures]

Discovery 2 has TC they just about invented it, how did TC work on the Grenadier with CDL and not without? I thought Grenadier did not have TC , I may be wrong . Re winch you recommend rollers with synthetic never heard that before and would not recommend it personally

[@L2SFBC]

The video covers Grenadier with CDL unlocked and locked. Rollers work GREAT with synth rope!

[@Ardventures]

@@L2SFBC you said the D2 did not have TC, which is not correct, and rollers with synthetic rope positively dangerous. I teach winching to Mountain Rescue English and Wales.

[@Ardventures]

@@L2SFBC smooth fairlead for synthetic ropes

[@davidkelly3779]

@@ArdventuresThe D2 TC has been disconnected on that vehicle due locker installation. I have a D2 and agree, it’s TC is excellent, especially with a centre diff lock.

[@Ardventures]

@@davidkelly3779 maybe that should have been pointed out

[@yuglesstube]

I think its too heavy and expensive. Is that fair? I question the ladder frame construction.

[@L2SFBC]

Your opinion is your own...your points are quite arguable

[@paulwatson4650]

iam realy liking this truck out here in jamaica i would love to see you do the same things u did in it with load in the truck and see how it would behave my opinion from jamaica right it is empty add some weight in it and see

[@Steve_MFr]

What I missed in this video: the Grenadier is the replacement Defender. The new Defender and the Grenadier are 2 different takes on a modern 4wd vehicle. Comparison...

[@L2SFBC]

Maybe soon...

[@markoconnor959]

It’s expensive. We need a stripped down version. That steering arm in the front looks vulnerable. What’s the payload?

[@L2SFBC]

I'll do weights in another video. It's a steering damper in the front. I'm not sure 'stripped down' would be much cheaper to be honest.

[@slbran75]

Best review by a mile. Do you have any recommended dealers for getting electric brakes attached. Seems harder than it.should be.