INFERNO CANTO 22 explained

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

I can see the pitch giving the bodies writhing up a shine like the wet skin of a dolphin. The bird and animal metaphors Dante uses are always a particular joy for me. Frogs piling on top of each other or peeking above the surface and then disappearing again when someone approaches.

[@tomlabooks3263]

I thought precisely about that, Roz: the shine of a dolphin’s back must be what sparked this simile in Dante’s mind. So fascinating.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

@@tomlabooks3263 the demons later in the canto fighting in flight like a pair of hawks was another beauty. Then we end up with more cookery imagery, more or less a deep fat fryer scene 😉

[@richardsonreads573]

This canto was a wild ride

[@TootightLautrec]

I still find the torturing of the damned more horrific than comic, especially when it comes to dismemberment and the flaying of flesh, but it did make me wonder: since this is eternity, there must be some regeneration of bodies so they can be perpetually tortured. I would love to see Dante do an Ovid-like regeneration scene-which could be another source of pain for the poor damned souls. Also, someone should write a book on bodies in Dante. I’m fascinated by the primacy of the body in all religious tales, whether it’s punishment, overindulgence, or asceticism among saints and sinners. In looking for books about depictions of the devil all through art history I find both eroticism and horror, and usually a mixture. Fascinating.

[@tomlabooks3263]

Yes there are some regeneration scenes in the next cantos of Inferno. As you say, this is eternity, so if anyone is wounded or dismembered, their bodies then go back to normal. We don’t see it happen in the case of Ciampolo, but it will. I am also fascinated by Dante’s focus on the human body (not only him but many others in his times). For example he could have come up with any creative machine-related punishments, but his choreographies are all based on the naked body and more or less natural phenomena. I guess that’s because any religion in history (with maybe rare exceptions) has been focusing on that portion of the human being that tries to go beyond pure animal instincts. If we use the “ape and bee” metaphor, where we are mainly apes but with an ability for complex cooperation like bees, I think religions tend to encourage that “bee” part and soften the “ape” part. With how much success, that’s a whole other story...

[@seanodonnell3683]

New subscriber sent by Steve Donoghue. I love the video and read through! I will now start to catch up!

[@tomlabooks3263]

Oh that’s great, thanks Sean! Look forward to your thoughts and comments. Like I said in my introduction video, I am mainly using the Pinsky translation for Inferno, but I’m planning to move to Mandelbaum’s for Purgatorio.

[@avvGiuseppeTodesca]

Allway interesting and good explaining. Thank you !

[@elizabethmolnar4643]

Thank you very much.

[@tothelithouse6562]

Your comments about the devil in different religions/ideologies were very interesting. It made me realize just how little I know about the topic. I bought the Koran a few months ago and intend to read it this year; it'll be fascinating to know how the "devil" is depicted in that.

[@tomlabooks3263]

Ohh I’d love it if you did a video about your reading of the Koran - even only under a specific aspect, like for example this one (devil concept). Have a great weekend 👋🏼

[@tothelithouse6562]

@@tomlabooks3263 That would be cool. The little I've heard about the Koran has been enough to pique my interest--I'm sure it'll be fun to explore. Hope your weekend is great too, Tom!

[@fmfm9846]

Thank you Tom for another amazing presentation! I'm not sure that there is a devil in Buddhism. The closest figure might be Mara (originating from Hinduism- Mara or Mrityu Devi is a Sanskrit word meaning "death") who appeared in the form of 3 beautiful ladies who tempted the Buddha just before his enlightenment. Other than that, there isn't a god or devil, just humans causing their own suffering, mainly through ignorance.

[@bighardbooks770]

Thanks for the illustrations and maps et al. Appreciated 🤓 I heard you're switching to Mandelbaum's for next two canticles? (Nine's in a box in Scottsdale w my Musa!) You don't like Ciardi's translation?

[@tomlabooks3263]

Thank you for watching 🙏🏻 To be honest Ciardi is the one translation, among the “popular” ones, that I do not own, so I can’t talk much about it! Steve Donoghue thinks Mandelbaum’s is the best translation especially in the sense of the poetic strength in English, that’s why I’m planning to use Mandelbaum’s for the next 2 cantiche, but I’m still totally open to suggestions and ideas. Plus, I don’t need to use only 1 of them. I might try to go through Purg. + Para. using 2 or 3.

[@bighardbooks770]

@@tomlabooks3263 Sounds good. As soon as I can I'll get my boxes shipped up here. Still awaiting stimulus check! 😂😎😉

[@jons2225]

You probably already know about these, but back in the 1980's Jeffrey Burton Russell wrote five books on various aspects of the devil. Titles like Lucifer, The Prince of Darkness, Mephistopheles, etc. I think I read one of them back then and was impressed at his thoroughness, but it's been a long time. Maybe I'll look them up again.

[@tomlabooks3263]

I actually didn't know about this author (although his name does ring a bell) - I'm going to check out these titles right away. Thank you!

[@thefont4345]

Hmm, devils aren't my specialty but if I had to pick my favourite one it would be Saladin Chamcha from Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses. I don't like my devils too scary, I like them dented, fallible and with a whiff of comedy. What a great question! Thanks for another great video :)

[@tomlabooks3263]

That’s another great book I’d love to get my hands on ! Thanks 🙏🏻

[@HeyYallListenUp]

Another great discussion. One of my favorite books is For Love of Evil by Piers Anthony. It's the sixth in his Incarnations of Immortality series. In this world concepts like Death, Time, War, Fate and Earth are offices held by mortals, with various means of succession. Satan is the antagonist in the first five. He is the main character in the sixth.

[@tomlabooks3263]

Thanks John! I’ve been taking careful notes about all your great suggestions about Anthony, and I’m probably going to dive into his imagination next year.

[@bighardbooks770]

I used to have a Visconti Tarot deck 🧙‍♂️

[@tomlabooks3263]

Ohh those are cool. Great mix of images.

[@hesterdunlop7948]

Interesting points about devilish manifestations ....I'm thinking artists / creators utilise images of tropes that serve their storytelling best , so fallen angels for medieval writers / artists or any number of powerful / double dealing / deceitful types in modern times , depending on the moral or the story ....look at all those villains in Bond movies ....who always come to an end not dissimilar to some in the Inferno ...

[@tomlabooks3263]

That’s right. Didn’t someone say that we keep telling ourselves the same 2 or 3 basic stories? The characters tend to be the same ones if you look at them from enough distance!

[@curioushmm9027]

i don't seem to be able to think of literary devils beyond the one i met in the first book i read by one of my favorite and most influential authors c.s. lewis...and his screwtape.

[@tomlabooks3263]

Oh yes that is another great example! I also love C.S. Lewis, his wonderful imagination and intelligence.

[@curioushmm9027]

@@tomlabooks3263 yes he does...'the great divorce' is a wonderful study on human nature and choice...and i've thought of something else not lewis related...it's hazy as i read it so so many years ago but menoch the devil in the anne rice vampire series i remember as providing some intriguing looks, for me, at the devil.

[@attention5638]

"One must go to the tavern with boozers, and church with Saints." I think that saying should come back haha The 'devil' in Islam is usually in connection to the fall of Adam and Eve, and is called Iblis. Though, like Christianity, the spirit is often depicted as a fallen angel, if I remember correctly, the Quran presents it as a jinn, which is more accurately a spirit, or some kind of supernatural being. No where does it mention a fallen angel (don't take my word on that, I just don't remember reading that in the Quran). I know a lot of the Adam and Eve story that we all know today is actually derived from Milton's "Paradise Lost." In fact, there is no where in Genesis that connects the serpent to a fallen angel or Satan. Many theologians have made the connection with the serpent John mentions in the Book of Revelations as being the serpent in Genesis, but there is no real indication that that is what John is referring to. The Hebrew word for 'Satan' is best translated to "accuser" and if I remember correctly from the theology courses I took five years ago, this term doesn't show up until the book of Job, and even then, there is no indication that it is THE devil, but only an adversary of God. I could go on, but just in case I am not remembering this quite accurately, I will stop haha. As always, great listen!

[@tomlabooks3263]

This is great information. The Quran is very high in the list of religious texts I would love to study. And I didn’t know that the serpent in Eden is not directly connected to Satan. These are all such ancient myths that I wouldn’t be surprised to find something similar in Egyptian or even Sumerian writings.

[@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711]

Pae I am stunned by the range of your reading. Tom's videos are a joy and wonder, then the comments add another layer.

[@attention5638]

@@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 Why thank you! 😊 the comment section for these videos are some I always check out. There is some really great conversations here. 😊

[@bighardbooks770]

Yes, great conversation! Lest we forget the serpent in _Paradise Lost_ (as well as the apple, missing in Genesis 3:3)!

[@knittingbooksetc.2810]

Copyright on the devil. That made me chuckle. The representation of the devil that most strikes me is the one from the bible. He was the most powerful and beautiful angel. The angel of light. What a great fall indeed. Once I read that his fall was due to pride and his refusal of submitting to a Man (Christ). I remember watching a TV-series on the life of Saint Philip Neri. There were several representations of the devil in this series, one was a nun that would perform miracles. The saint unmasked the devil because she was uncharitable. That series was very funny. In one scene, saint Philip and saint Ignatius are talking very informally about the demons they could see skulking around.

[@tomlabooks3263]

Sounds very interesting, I’m going to look for that series, thank you 🙏🏻

[@knittingbooksetc.2810]

@@tomlabooks3263 Unfortunately I cannot find it. The only one that appears in my search results is the most recent one. This series I mention must be from the 1970s.

[@knittingbooksetc.2810]

@@tomlabooks3263 ok, I think it might be the 1983 film State buoni se potete.

[@tomlabooks3263]

@@knittingbooksetc.2810 Ahh that does sound familiar! Thank you, I will find it.