Pythagoras & His Weird Religious Cult

In this episode, we explore the life and movement of Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans, and discover that the common image of him as an ancient mathematician isn't entirely supported by the evidence.
Sources/Suggested Reading:
Huffman, Carl A. (2008). "Philolaus of Croton: A Commentary on the Fragments and Testimonia with Interprative Essays". Cambridge University Press.
Huffman, Carl A. (ed.) (2017). "A History of Pythagoreanism". Cambridge University Press.
Kirk, G.S., J.E. Raven & M. Schofield (1983). "The Presocratic Philosophers". Second Edition. Cambridge University Press.
Zhmud, Leonid (2012). "Pythagoras and the Early Pythagoreans". Translated by Kevin Windle & Rosh Ireland. OUP Oxford.
#Pythagoras #Pythagoreanism #Philosophy

[@ineedabetterusername7424]

"Every triangle is a love triangle when you love triangles." -- Pythagoras (probably)

[@user-vn6mb8im8w]

😅

[@panqueque445]

I had no idea most accounts of his life were written 800 years after he died. That's... not very good I gotta say.

[@blugaledoh2669]

Did Pythagoras even existed?

[@303TAG303]

@@blugaledoh2669 do you even exist?

[@blugaledoh2669]

@@303TAG303 Well I mean most of the account of his life is clouded by legend.

[@IvanVoras]

@@blugaledoh2669 and our lives will only be attested to by these writings in the cloud... 🤣 (Unless catastrophe hits)

[@randomanun4278]

@@IvanVoras psst h8 2 tell u m8 the internet has more dead links than it does live ones...

[@KillerLettuce]

The only things I really knew about Pythagoras was that he had some theorems (whatever that is) and that he sent me on some quests that required me to sail all over Greece in Assassins Creed Odyssey.

[@omar348]

Lmao was waiting for a comment talking about odyssey

[@FathomlessJoy]

@@omar348 You sit and wait for youtube comments to come out?

[@monkeeseemonkeedoo3745]

Easy way to think about 'theorem' is as an "If, Then" statement which links assumptions to a conclusion. In the case of the Pythagorean theorem, the assumptions are the axioms of Euclidean geometry, while the conclusion is that the lengths (a,b,c) of all right triangles satisfy the relation 'a^2 + b^2 = c^2'. So the Pythagorean theorem is about a pattern that exists within Euclidean geometry.

[@obnoxiouspedant]

Not surprising behavior for an Assassin's Creed enjoyer​@@FathomlessJoy

[@FathomlessJoy]

@@obnoxiouspedant What you mean?

[@middleburyastrology]

Didn't hear this mentioned, but he was named after the pythia of Delphi (the oracle herself). Just saying his name would summon a powerful reference to the high priestess of the Temple of Apollo.

[@pilot.wav_theory]

didnt know that but it makes sense thanks for sharing

[@kaloarepo288]

And if you go deeper into the word "pythia" it comes from the Greek word meaning "putrid" that is because of the myth of Apollo killing a huge snake (python) that had spontaneously generated itself from the stinking and putrid mud of the primeval cosmos .Apollo killed this monster known as the python -the thing that had originated from the putrid swamp.I think the word 'putrid" itself derives from the same source and equivalent words in other languages like in Italian where "puzza" means a very bad smell.At Delphi itself putrid gases (methane probably)came up from the ground and the delphic priestess became intoxicated by them and then delivered her oracles.

[@middleburyastrology]

@@kaloarepo288 Wow, wonderful to go deeper like this in a reply. I love it. Thanks for the info!

[@kaloarepo288]

@@middleburyastrology And if you go deeper still the word would ultimately be derived from the proto Indo European word "puh" which means to rot and smell -so that almost certainly the English word "poo" meaning faeces comes from the same source!!!

[@calicoesblue4703]

They got it from Africa. Pythagoras said it himself. The Greeks learned everything from the Africans.

[@jorenbosmans8065]

Had a talk with my mathematician colleague this week where he said that there was more to Pythagoras than people realized. This one came surprisingly on cue.

[@YogiMcCaw]

Yeah, I'm speculating that the mathematical/musical stuff was a big chunk of the secret initiations that Pythagoreans kept strictly secret during his life, and that's why it came out later, well after his passing. Humans can only keep important secrets for so long, after all.

[@josephcusumano2885]

A movie, perhaps?

[@borgueofficial7101]

There is indeed more to Pythagoras than the rest of the world realizes, I will now introduce you to The God Series by philosopher Mike Hockney, and The Truth Series by Dr. Thomas Stark. The Divine Series by Michael Faust. Go read them.

[@inquizition9672]

I think your smartphone is eavesdropping on your conversations.

[@jorenbosmans8065]

@@inquizition9672 I think the writers of let's talk Religion are eavesdropping on me 🤣

[@MLMenjoyer]

Pythagoras LOVED beans so much he refused to trample a bean field when chased by his murderers. He instead chose to be killed. I think you called him a “hater of beans” because he recommended not to eat them. It’s because he respected the beans so much. Lol

[@curtispower3619]

I thought it was up to debate

[@covenawhite4855]

@@curtispower3619 It was a joke from another channel

[@YogiMcCaw]

LOL, the original "bean counter"!

[@TeaParty1776]

Not with chianti. -Hannibal Lector

[@Swoost]

beans are love, beans are life, hail the meat of the fields

[@bellatrixmoon1836]

It’s important to remember that the ancient form of “cult” is different then what we think of a cult in present times. It meant more like a subcategory of religion.

[@nneisler]

All the good stuff was in Greek cults

[@hoppy23]

So does that mean in 100,000 years our cults now will just be a subcategory of religion ?

[@Sticktothemodels]

@@hoppy23 not necessarily but it is a possibility. I mean look at Scientology, and to somewhat of a lesser extent Mormonism

[@jamespicksley5781]

how can cults be a subcategory of cults?

[@Sprite_525]

True. There’s a thin line between Culture and cult. Modern meanings of ‘cult’ seems to mean means ‘personality cult,’ which isn’t what most religions seem to be.

[@Deeplycloseted435]

Do you think people were like, “Pssst.....there’s that weird triangle dude.”

[@AneelIqbal360]

Fascinating! It would be great if you cover more of these ancient cults.

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Definitely want to!

[@jacobmacdonald4713]

@@LetsTalkReligion The mysteries of Eleusis PLZ ! Much love, I appreciate you and your work

[@christiansky942]

@@jacobmacdonald4713 that, and the mystery cult on Samothraki

[@vollinaadkins8118]

+(I)+ am the binding fiber an force of all of all life of exsistance only crossing Bigger an Better inbody of matter of shape form an mass of atoms crossing an bonding the +x(At)om Man (Eve)olved)o- fully first of all of all +(I)+ am the only Good Engery as Truth of the Exsample an life of Jesus Christ of +x(All)ah of all)o+ Foureverlasting Peace +(I)+ am the more Positive the matter the Absloute Bigger an Better the Good God an Truth of the shape form an mass it is the Absloute here an now of its Reality check my Reality check the T(he)if (in) W(holy)Spirit out, ... +(I)+ am of all of all Mankind(s) negitivity two one neutral nouthing of a bad faith fool way +(I)+ Absloutly Positivily am an all of all else is just negitivily deffent of there Rightfool Truthful +x(🤴)o- the Fool Theif Man Man God King of all of all God Truth Reality check +(I)+ am a Fact check God Truth a Reality check, ... kzbin.info/door/eCalaHOVQvtV74g0Z6lWzA photos.app.goo.gl/Gcm7YdJd9ZdA6gfp6

[@vollinaadkins8118]

@@christiansky942 +(I)+ am the binding fiber an force of all of all life of exsistance only crossing Bigger an Better inbody of matter of shape form an mass of atoms crossing an bonding the +x(At)om Man (Eve)olved)o- fully first of all of all +(I)+ am the only Good Engery as Truth of the Exsample an life of Jesus Christ of +x(All)ah of all)o+ Foureverlasting Peace +(I)+ am the more Positive the matter the Absloute Bigger an Better the Good God an Truth of the shape form an mass it is the Absloute here an now of its Reality check my Reality check the T(he)if (in) W(holy)Spirit out, ... +(I)+ am of all of all Mankind(s) negitivity two one neutral nouthing of a bad faith fool way +(I)+ Absloutly Positivily am an all of all else is just negitivily deffent of there Rightfool Truthful +x(🤴)o- the Fool Theif Man Man God King of all of all God Truth Reality check +(I)+ am a Fact check God Truth a Reality check, ... kzbin.info/door/eCalaHOVQvtV74g0Z6lWzA photos.app.goo.gl/Gcm7YdJd9ZdA6gfp6

[@alcosmic]

Pythagoras needs his own movie

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Who should portray him?

[@someinteresting]

@@LetsTalkReligion I could guess only for the director - Villeneuve or Nolan. Or a joint extravaganza.

[@diverguy3556]

@@LetsTalkReligion Perhaps Anthony Hopkins? I can't think of an actor with gravitas like him.

[@AviViljoen]

He probably doesn't.

[@willr3891]

@@LetsTalkReligion me

[@umarahmad9381]

Very excited for the new chapter on Hellenistic Religion/Philosophy/Mystery schools. Though I’m sure you’ll eventually get to it, Heraclitus and Aristotelian metaphysics will be a great counterpart to Pythagoras’ and Plato’s Esoteric teachings.

[@borgueofficial7101]

Mystery school 101 (I won't mention the name, you can find out for yourself), listen to how they solve the problem of consiousness, Lucid Waking by Jack Tanner, 2021.

[@PowerYoutuberViewer]

I swear I heard “hater of beans”

[@sandkang827]

this video connected so much random stuff I knew here and there together, I did not expect that id come out from a video about Pythagoras, realizing why the male and female gender symbols look the way they do, the connection between math and region in so many big religions, and that music theory came from philosophy.

[@imaginaryuniverse632]

Did the video say why the gender symbols look the way they do? I'll look again if it did. ✌

[@sandkang827]

@@imaginaryuniverse632 no it doesn't really mention it at all, but one of the visuals shown showed all the symbols for the planets. The symbol for Mars was the male symbol and the symbol for Venus was the female one. So it like clicked, you know "men are from Mars and women are from Venus."

[@rebeccahull2480]

Quantum physics dear

[@dr.gaosclassroom]

I am always fascinated by the cult of Pythagoras. I only start my explore on Mohism recently because Mohism had very little impact on Classical Chinese philosophies after the Warring State Period. The Mohism went underground after the Han Dynasty due to the persecutions from the Central Government. It becomes more like a secret society. There were only legends and stories and completely disappeared from the philosophical discussions until early 20th century when the work of Mozi was rediscovered!! I might do a video in the future about these two traditions in the future.

[@melwinjohny7263]

Please do I’ll watch it!

[@rmt3589]

I wanna see too!

[@jimmyjames2621]

No offense, but the world has little to learn from china. Is it sad? No, not really, given that China has had at least 2000 years to produce something worthy of world study? Ha-ha, many would say that time has come. It's hilarious.

[@johnphelan8300]

Your way of articulating these historical events is most interesting. You have the gift of bringing into the here and now events of thousands of years back. Well done!

[@trespire]

The Pythagorian School was a mystery school, or an esoteric school, not a cult. There is a big difference. By definition cults are easy to join, difficult to leave. Mystery / esoteric schools are not easy to join, and you can leave at anytime. The knowledge taught in the Pythagorean School is only a parts of a greater esoteric system of esoteric knowledge. " Man, know thyself " is a well known quote associated with Pythagorism.

[@nobodyimportant4778]

To quote king of the hill "Yall with the cult?" "We're not a cult. We're an organization that promotes love and-" "Yeah this is it."

[@nobodyimportant4778]

@The Dude 1: you just said a bunch of empty platitudes 2: he literally forbade people to speak to others for years as an indoctrination method

[@trespire]

@Ryan I wouldn't quote a cartoon character, or search for ancient wisdom on Wikipedia. For those that search for knowledge, it is not hidden or secret. It takes effort to gain, personal secrifice, effort and time , hence it is esoteric. Regarding what might be classed as humaniterian, that has changed throughout history, and differs from person to person. The Church, and most institutionalized religions, have strayed from their original teaching and values.

[@trespire]

@Ryan Not only is Wiki not supposed to be a dictionary ( those are for words ), it's not even a properly researched encyclopedia. So it's usually not a reliable source for information. All the Western Churches have strayed far from the original teachings, eccept St. Francis of Asisi. Disney is irrelevant, as are satanic books. At best, all they have are snippets of knowledge that's tought out of context, is miss leading and missunderstood. Ever heard the saying too little information is worse than non. They are the blind leading the blind. Fools in the guise of the Wise. Within the Christian faith, the closest to the esoteric mystery teachings, would be Gnostic monasteries of the Eastern Church. Some other belief systems have preserved other parts of the ancient Mystery Schools, there are many paths.

[@trespire]

@@nobodyimportant4778 Not speaking is an exercise in mechanics. I've done it myself, very insiteful regarding ones nature.

[@-0m3rcy0-8]

I looked up the “Chruch of Pythagorean” because me and my friends made a whole inside joke over it, and this showed up. Didn’t know there was a cult beyond out fake cult we made from a joke (for context, me and my friends who sit together in Geometry made a group chat together, and during a tornado when we thought it was gonna hit our town, we made a joke about “praying to the pythagorean theorem” and a week later here we are. )

[@juniorjames7076]

Well, in ancient Rome, what you guys did woulda been quite normal.

[@arareanddifferenttune3130]

That’s actually pretty funny

[@normmorn5543]

Wow thats hilarious

[@-0m3rcy0-8]

@@juniorjames7076 tbf a lot of outlandish things would be normal in Rome.

[@-0m3rcy0-8]

@@arareanddifferenttune3130 ain’t it? I sent it to the GC right after I made that comment and we all had a good laugh about it.

[@ariz8538]

I've only known he was a mystic because of some heavy obsession with esotericism and divinity I had as a kid and a teen. There's a Pythagorean numerological system that can read into your personality, your energy levels, spiritual needs and desires, destiny, mental capabilities, and strengths and weaknesses, all using your date of birth. some versions also use your name. him being a shamanic leader, though, is new to me. thank you for this.

[@mrfoodskater]

Lmfao

[@tequilasalad1535]

It sounds like you believe that this Pythagorean numerology is real lol

[@SeekersofUnity]

Beautifully done Filip. Thank you for these esoteric goodies :)

[@oleghrozman4172]

I have read the books of Peter Kingsley about Pythagoras and Pythagoreans (Parmenides & Empedocles). This figure (Pythagoras) is much more way interesting then we thought. And he was not a "bean hater". Beans were sacred - they had connections with Dionysus and Underground World. Touching beans was just like touching some meat.

[@paulfasoulas2809]

I love your voice and your vocabulary so much! It really calms me when I hear your story tellings and descriptions!

[@amypetrie7712]

you are very talented - a master communicator of ideas. you would almost think religion ISNT controversial from the way you speak about it :)

[@MarcillaSmith]

Fortunately, there's that one religious book that clearly establishes the one true church

[@good4gaby]

Almost, am I rite?

[@berniv7375]

This is a fascinating video on Pythagoras and his followers. Could you please keep the words that you use to express the contents of the video simple and relatable. For instance the word understand is understandable. The phrase "wrap your head around" is daft and inappropriate. Thank you.🌱

[@MarcillaSmith]

@@berniv7375 -you think more people understand and relate to "daft" than to "wrap your head around"- Sorry, I figured it out, and good bit of irony, if may say so!

[@retinav9654]

​@@MarcillaSmith and there you go, demonstrating perfectly thay Christianity is the religion of division, not unity

[@douglasturner6153]

The surviving evidence looks strong that Pythagoras was a Mystic. He believed the Soul was eternal and reincarnated from one body to the next according to a persons actions. His vegetarianism is quite consistent with these Mystic beliefs. In ancient times Mystics had to disguise their teachings in parables and stories. Jesus did the same thing.

[@craggle2332]

In ancient times? It's still the case.

[@douglasturner6153]

@@craggle2332 Depends where you are. 400 years ago they'd boil you alive in Christian Countries. Nowadays many Muslim Countries will do that. Orthodoxy Priest's are all the same regardless of the era.

[@craggle2332]

@@douglasturner6153 I get what you're saying and I agree. I'd add though, that if you try to explain something outright to most people (I know, most people) it's rejected, or ignored. So many novels, poems, songs, paintings, anything we would call art really, are parables, and they are parables because we have to figure things out for ourselves before we can accept them, or at least, we need to feel like we figured them out on our own, such is the human condition. What art(ifice) isn't architecture? Inception, for better or worse, is a perfect example of this. It IS a parable. A friend of mine one pointed out to me that artisanal is also art/is/anal and laughed at the concept of art. I said "art has to be anal. The concern of art is the small print, the devil is in the detail." He stopped laughing. We then lit up a plaited spliff and we played some guitar for a while. It was an enjoyable evening in this u/n/i/verse. Everything used to be cake, now it is playdough.

[@gnosticacademy]

Considering we have exactly ZERO extant records of Pythagoras, and can not even prove whether or not he even existed, this entire video, as well as ANY claim about Pythagoras and his schools is speculation. I think the producer of this vid did a pretty good job at establishing this. We have absolutely NO "surviving evidence." Most of the claims about him are clearly esoteric in nature, i.e. biting the head of a snake off - clearly a reference to controlling one's inner demons.

[@rgkgamedogs5345]

He got all his knowledge from Egypt

[@_d2082]

Wonderful video as always. You never fail to surprise me, and these videos bring me great joy.

[@glenswada]

That was obviously tough to research. Thanks for all your great work.

[@y_optimist]

My geometry teacher in high school always used to tell us that the pythagorean theorem would be the mot important thing to remember from the class. Knowing that the universe is made of geometrical shapes and equations is so fascinating and mind bending.

[@calicoesblue4703]

Yet Pathagorean came from Africa & Egypt. He said that the Greeks were taught everything By Africans.

[@dharmaqueen7877]

I don't know that, and the elevation of mathematics to god status is the most obvious example of what makes Pythagoras a cult leader.

[@absentmindedshirokuma8539]

​@@calicoesblue4703Egyptian is Egyptian. Africa is diverse, Egypt is just one kind of africa. Equalled both is dangerous and misleading. Egypt and Ethiopia is as much as different between greeks and iran.

[@calicoesblue4703]

@@absentmindedshirokuma8539 False. Ancient Egyptians were black Africans before colonization & invasion & displacement took place. Herodotus even describes the Ancient Egyptians as Black🤷

[@eugenecrawford14]

The universe is based on pi

[@glauberleal6546]

Wonderful video man. I do hope you do some video about orphism in the future. Since I read Russell's book about the history of Western Philosophy I got puzzled over those cults and the relation between them and some philosophers' thought, such as Pythagoras and Plato.

[@ReiYuriko]

I’m thankful for my education. When I leaned about Ancient Greece in elementary school we were taught this about Pythagorus and the Pythagoreans.

[@siglijalil716]

Wonderful presentation. I’ve been looking into Theon of Smirna. Also, thanks for the videos on Ikhwan Al safa. I’ve started collecting the compendium in hard copy. Wonderful material!

[@LetsTalkReligion]

The Ikhwan are awesome!

[@migiel111]

a² + b² = Hating Beans

[@laurah1020]

And thank goodness you are here, Filip!! Another super presentation. Indeed, I will sleep better tonight after watching this....a 4th century hippy-what a great image to contemplate. Love and gratitude.

[@ruatsangawhite7261]

i just found this channel and it's a damn gem,thank you

[@erikrass]

I read The Metamorphoses by Ovid, and Pythagoras is a character with a rather lengthy speech at the end that totally blew me away and tied the entire book together amazingly well. Great stuff, but it seemed like his real life was perhaps even more interesting!

[@ZeeHilal]

I was looking forward to watching this video since It alerted me on my phone you had new content. You are an excellent educator

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Thank you!

[@fun_at_work]

Thanks that was a Nifty talk. I appreciate your researching your attention to detail there.

[@AsherRosenberg10]

Love the editing on this one! Great work as always. Have you considered doing any more videos on Gnosticism or neoplatonism?

[@JM-rp5lo]

Awesome video! Had no idea that Pythagoras wasn't connected to math during his life. Would you be willing to do a video on ancient Egyptian ritual practices? Like how the average person would honor the gods and how they would choose which one to worship.

[@NorthernChev]

One thing Pythagarus can never be called is, obtuse...

[@dprice1291]

He was, however, at least a third right. And I'm told he was also a-cute!

[@haliaeetus8221]

Thank you for this excellent video. I will certainly watch following videos on philosophers and mystics.

[@colourconscious]

Great work. Thank you very much. For this and all your many informative videos

[@aashutoshbhatt6535]

A lot of parallels to the Indic philosophical systems with the emphasis on mathematics. Very interesting indeed.

[@PadmeP]

The first time I heard about Pythagoras (well apart from Maths) was researching John Wood the Elder (the architect who designed a lot of Bath) who beleived that Bladud, the first king of Bath, flew to Greece to study with Pythagaroas. I thought John Wood must have had some crazy ideas but it seems he wasn't the only one.

[@nickgent3821]

Bladud, if he existed, would have lived in the right time period . There is a theory among some historians that the scientific and philosophical ideas of the ruling elite, the Druids, what little we know about it, may have been influenced by the Pythagorean schools. And 'flew' may have just implied a difficult or unlikely journey. But one that wasnt in reality actually that difficult as ships regularly sailed from the North coast of Cornwall, a days sail down the Bristol channel to the East Mediteranean, at most times of the year except for winter and early spring.

[@ashisharyal64]

As always, excellent video. "Help you sleep at night" almost killed me. Although listening to this at work today. Keep up the good work.🍀

[@thomasvieth578]

I have got my information on both Pythagoras and Philolaos from the most useful Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. You mentioned a third one, but I haven’t read yet. As always I enjoy your videos. Thank you so much

[@CliffSedge-nu5fv]

I think the "Pythagorean theorem" was so named, because it was known to the ancient Egyptians at least a thousand years before Pythagoras, and it is one of the "sacred" teachings he brought back from Egypt to share with what would then become "the Western world." This is common in mathematics and science to name theorems and laws after people to honor them, not because they invemted it. Blaise Pascal did not invent "Pascal's triangle," for example. The arithmetic triangle had been around for centuries or millennia prior. Pascal did make good use of it in developing modern probability theory, so his name gets attached to it in his honor.

[@LoneMagpie91]

Let me guess: you think Egyptians were the same as Igbo people of SSA and you think "White man bad"

[@LoneMagpie91]

"Western World" "Middle East" "Asia Minor" "Aram" "Dublin" What is your point? Egyptians were mostly the same colour as Greeks btw. I have seen Bulgarians with more melanin than Egyptians.

[@kphaxx]

It was named such because it wasn't a theorem until the Pythagoreans came and explained the "why", even if the "that" was known for over a millennium prior

[@milascave2]

I heard that the reason Pythagoras did not want people to eat beans because when you cut a bean in half, the sprout on each side is the same shape as a human body. Therefore, he thought that each bean had a being similar to a human inside them.

[@jimmyjames2621]

Or beans make you fart.

[@alaudaeltia9981]

@@jimmyjames2621outside eats inside inside and repels outside

[@AerialTheShamen]

Pythagoras taught us the harmonic laws of music. 🪗But we also know the song "Beans beans the musical fruit - the more you eat, the more you toot...". Who knows if he disliked them for sounding too inharmonious?! 🤔 That is to say, some ancient yoga lectures discourage the eat of things those bloat or cause bad smelling farts, including beans, onions, garlic, hot spices etc. As a yogi I don't strictly obey these (garlic keeps you healthy), but the concept comes close to a religious ban of beans.

[@globaloptimatarot3676]

Amazing....no wonder of all the information I learned in many philosophy classes I took, I remember Plato's Alegory of The Cave and Pythagoras most of all.

[@lordsesshomaru8960]

Esoteric knowledge in ancient history has always fascinated me, even though it always seems forever out of reach, I get the feeling that regardless it's also always in plain sight.

[@kes136]

I live in a city called Crotone in Calabria, Italy. Here in Crotone, Pitagorah lived for many years and one can find the essence of the deep and saintly Pitagoroh, whoms only desire was to educate people with his wisdom and make them more spiritually evolved. It is believed that some violent invaders came into Crotone and began to destroy all these beautiful Greek structures, temples and schools. He left the city with his wife and went into hiding to avoid being killed. Ancient Greeks where very evolved but sadly all their institutions in most areas of Southern Italy was misunderstood and destroyed.

[@jakea6837]

Great job. I really appreciate you sticking rigorously to what we know as opposed to unsubstantiated rumor or legend. Thoroughly engrossing video.

[@vhawk1951kl]

I wonder if you understand that the term or word "we" indicates the user of the term (that is you sunshine) and his immediate interlocutor, and since you have no immediate interlocutor in the premises, "we" can only be imaginary "We" can no more "know", then "we" can have a headache. Collective knowledge is impossible if you define knowledge as direct immediate personal experience as direct and immediate as pain, and there is no better definition of knowledge, is there? Self evidently the past cannot be directly immediately personally experienced or "known" You yourself can have direct immediate personal experiences or knowledge but some imaginary "we" self-evidently can know nothing any more than we can have a headache

[@jakea6837]

@@vhawk1951kl you're trying far too hard to sound smart, and you're failing as well.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@jakea6837 Since "smart" - to all but imbeciles refers to how one is dressed, that would be a little tricky. child.

[@joseclarkstonmichigan2573]

You always have such good content. Thank you for the work you do.

[@jeromemaiquez3108]

loved hearing about the social context of pythagoras! next please talk about neoplatonism ❤️

[@everetthalfman3186]

Thank you for this channel and great video by the way--very fascinating take on a figure that not many would associate with rites, ritual and mysticism (at least those who aren't specialists). Some of the ritualism mentioned reminds me of the śramaṇas of Ancient India. Do you have any plans for doing videos on Buddhist/śramaṇic topics ? Your Jain videos were quite captivating.

[@vhawk1951kl]

If it be right that the Vedas were Aryan origin, is it not likely that the ancient Greeks arose from, or had their origin in that great in the Aryan migration, the reasons and motives for which are a mystery? Thus if Pythagoras was one of the results or offspring of that particular migration, it would be surprising if he were not familiar with some of the ideas contained in the Vedas

[@JaRule6]

True story; many years ago I was working at JoAnn fabrics and I would use the Pythagorean theorem to calculate yardages for bias binding because I could never find the cheat sheet that was used as a resource at the cutting counter. One day I was waiting on an very aged woman at the cutting counter who needed fabric for bias binding. As I proceeded to make the calculation, a coworker asked me about the formula that I use and how I learned it. I explained that it was something that was taught to me in my highschool math class. I assumed that everyone had learned it long enough to forget about it but this coworker said that she had never heard of it. Anyway I proceeded to tell the elderly woman that I was waiting on about the conversation I had just had. I assume that because of her age she was better educated than most of the younger folks that I encountered and I thought she would be amused by what my coworker said. Her reply to me when I told her the story was she didn't know anything about this "new math". 🤣 My next thought was I swear this one looks old enough that she could have dated Pythagoras. BTW, if you would like to know more about reincarnation and the spirit self then please read Why We Are Born by Akemi G

[@martybartfast1]

Thank you. Wonderfully put together and clear delivery. Peace m out

[@DudeWatIsThis]

Damn, saved for after work. I've always been interested in this particular thing (the culty aspects of Pythagoras), with maths being this secret, sacred, magical shit. I love it. Thank you for the video, subbed!

[@lilystonne4108]

Fascinating! I thought he was a Greek mathematician known for the theorem that is attributed to him. I was really bad at math in high school and dropped it as soon as I could, so ever since then I have avoided the subject. However, I do remembered the diagram with the 3 squares attached to the 3 sides of a right triangle, the right side being called the hypotenuse. So he was primarily known for his religious views in his time and the rest was written 800 years after his death. I looked him up on Wikipedia and it confirmed that Pythagoras was not the originator of the theorem. Thank you for busting the myth, for me at least.

[@CliffSedge-nu5fv]

It is common in mathematics and science to name laws and theorems after people to honor them, not because they invented them. The "Pythagorean theorem" was known for thousands of years prior by the ancient Egyptians. Pytagoras is credited with bringing it back to 'the western world.'

[@zachariousoftroy]

The story about him biting the snake sounds exactly like a Chuck Norris joke I was fond of back in like 2010

[@wordawakeningny]

Great teaching Brother Holm. Enjoyed it!

[@RichardHandler-vq6vl]

My students' ears perk up when I mention that Pythagoras wasn't just an aficionado of triangles, but a cult leader! Mathematics has so many fascinating roots in ancient history.

[@exoplanet11]

Thanks for this video on the fascinating ideas of the Pythagorians, whom I consider them foundational to Mediterranean philosophy, and not really strange at all (if we allow for the fact that we are likely to misinterpret much of the symbolism they used). Resonances with other traditions include: 1. The Pythagorians' emphasis on the soul really set the stage for the later Greek religion of Christianity, which really requires a Greek notion of the afterlife rather than a Judaic one (sheol) to work. 2. The wacky wool ban reminds me of some of the clothing restrictions in the OT (Leviticus?) 3. Pythagorians seem to have come up with the reincarnation idea independent from the Dhammic traditions of India/Nepal. But both led to respect for animals and vegetarianism. One topic not touched on in the video was the Pythagoreans reported inclusion of WOMEN positions of respect in their religion. IIRC some later Pythagorean treatises were attributed to his female followers.

[@pauliedibbs9028]

Ever see the old Disney (Donald Duck) cartoon about Pythagoras... and his "secret followers"? It's here on YT if you search for 'disney pythagoras' and I honestly find it quite weird as well, to say the least! 🧐

[@jon-marcyaden6265]

Great topic, thank you for posting! Have you done any work on Zoroaster?

[@josebasso416]

Thank you for doing these videos

[@sayuas4293]

No less weird than any of the big religions, it's just that they've been normalized.

[@Esko369]

Facts

[@freddieblue6351]

Truth

[@trentmclellan1037]

Lord Jesus Christ loves you and wants you to ask Him into your heart, also repent of your sins and Lord Jesus Christ will forgive you and guide you on the right path❤️

[@PathsUnwritten]

Every triangle is a love triangle when you love triangles 💓📐

[@scripturethroughancienteye1509]

Best overview I've found on this topic.

[@MrSarevok187]

You have really impressed me with your knowledge now.

[@WouterStekelenburg]

Even the theorem of Pythagoras wasn't named after its discoverer. That must be one of the oldest traditions still being practiced actively today!

[@vhawk1951kl]

Who told you that and why do you believe them?

[@WouterStekelenburg]

@@vhawk1951kl It is common knowledge among scientists that theorems are often named after researchers who had little involvement in the discovery or proof.

[@stellarosesims]

Following the Music of the Spheres - Pythagoras was also thought to have ‘prescribed’ music to those who were feeling emotional imbalances - something I remember was him telling a very angry man to listen to flute music because it would heal his soul. He believed the harmonies of music followed the Harmonía of the planets where our souls are born from, so music/vibrations could balance our energy. This has been indirectly confirmed in recent music psychology studies- I love Pythagoras !!!!!!

[@sarahmusicaddy]

I have bipolar disorder and often use music to control my moods! Fascinating

[@AerialTheShamen]

Pythagoras taught us the harmonic laws of music. 🪗But we also know the song "Beans beans the musical fruit - the more you eat, the more you toot...". Who knows if he disliked them for sounding too inharmonious?! 🤔

[@octopusmime]

woo! really grateful for this & i love your channel. 💜💜🍩🍩

[@beppievanhetmolentje1512]

Thanks for the interesting lecture Shaggy!

[@Torgo-and-the-Lucifer-Cat]

note: some believe that in ancient times beans should not be eaten because they contained the spirits of the dead and the spirits escaping became flatulence, and pigs were sacred because they represented the moon goddess; they were only allowed to be eaten at the end/begining of the new year. to this day in the south of the USA there is a tradition of eating pork and black eyed peas on new years day for good luck in the coming year. pork was forbidden in many places in the ancient world during most of the year because it was sacred, i.e. "carneus" or "carnius" where we may have gotten the word "carnival" meaning "meat festival". it may be why pork is forbidden in several religions.

[@nyui_arantes]

Which moon goddess are you refering to?

[@Torgo-and-the-Lucifer-Cat]

@@nyui_arantes there was a single naturalistic worldwide religion for 10's of thousands of years based on sun and moon worship. The moon is female...the word 'month' itself comes from 'moon' and a woman's body has a monthly cycle, and the moon becomes full representing pregnancy. So there is only one moon goddess, but different cultures called her by different names. 'luna' is one.

[@nyui_arantes]

@@Torgo-and-the-Lucifer-Cat Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in my question. What I meant was which specific interpretation of the moon goddes was/is associated with pigs. In some religions there isn't this association, so I wanted to know if you there's a specif deity from an ancient religion that is connected with pigs and the moon.

[@realtalk6195]

The prohibition of pork in monotheistic Semitic religions has nothing to do with pigs or pig meat being considered sacred in certain polytheistic religions. From just an objective or non-theological POV, there are many reasons why pork can become prohibited: 1// It's a mammal that's an omnivore rather than a herbivore, which is what these religions mainly allow consumption of. 2// Pigs eat almost anything including garbage and feces, which is why they're considered unclean. 3// Pigs are one of the only land animals that defecate in fresh water sources, which spreads diseases and make it undrinkable for humans. 4// Pigs also destroy crops and plants for fun, which is a threat to people's livelihood where vegetation and water may be scarce.

[@Torgo-and-the-Lucifer-Cat]

@@realtalk6195 they ate chickens and dogs and these animals ate feces too, prohibition on pork is in islam and judaism and codes of the pharisees so the prohibition must have existed before these religions. But I suggest an interesting book, "white goddess" by graves, it has explanations about this stuff. Thanks for the extra info, though.

[@chickenfist1554]

There is a story about Pythagoras where he meets some fishermen and tells them that he bets he can guess how many fish are in their net. They tell him they will give him all the fish if he guesses correctly. He guesses 153 and when they count the fish he is bang on the money. Makes you wonder where they got the idea from for the Biblical story of Jesus telling some fishermen that they had caught a lot of fish and when they pulled the net up there was 153! The number 153 comes from one of the dimensions of a Pythagorean symbol called the 'Vesica Pisces' which translates to 'Bladder of a fish'. It is two circles which overlap and make the shape of a fish, which early Christians -stole- used for the 'Christian' fish logo.

[@Higherseeker]

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us !

[@vhawk1951kl]

Do you not understand that it is impossible to share knowledge? You can impart information to others but not knowledge, if, as I do, you define knowledge as direct immediate personal experience (as direct immediate and personal as pain). However if you wish to proffer some other definition of knowledge, I would be interested to learn exactly are you yourself define "knowledge" if not as being direct immediate personal experience (as direct immediate and personal as pain)

[@pavlahubena7691]

Thank you for sharing your research!

[@douglasfur3808]

Thoughts that will keep me awake at night: "When do we get the funny hats like the neopythagirians?" "Is the saying 'the loaf is the origin of the universe' related the English colloquial use of Loaf for Head? And does this imply that the origin of the universe is in our head?"

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Well thanks for ruining my sleep tonight

[@beauwhitlock5034]

I've seen scientists use a loaf shape to represent spacetime and every event is in a slice

[@davidgibson5756]

Load of bread = head is cockney riming slang. Cockney being a place in London England.

[@imaginaryuniverse632]

Science says the Universe looks like a brain. I think it looks like our brain and everything we see and experience is in our imagination. Einstein said imagination is more important than knowledge, this is because knowledge is made entirely of imagination. The Bible says we are made in the image of God. Everything we see in our dreams is made of exactly the same thing we see in our not dreams. 👍

[@kellydalstok8900]

@@imaginaryuniverse632 It sounds like you’re so openminded your brain fell out.

[@raphaelreichmannrolim25]

The most important research on pithagorean metaphysics that I know happens to have been made in portuguese, by the Brazilian philosopher Mario Ferreira dos Santos. It in some ways precedes his magnum opus, Filosofia Concreta, and Filosofia das Leis Eternas, in which he dwells in the nature of numbers as metaphysical laws, forms, the arithmoi arkai.

[@raphaelreichmannrolim25]

By the way, the book is called Pitágoras e o tema do Número. It hás many wonderful quotations from many pythagoreans, as Archytas. It's evident that the main teaching of all was that of the existential Absolute, prior to any duality and opposition.

[@middleburyastrology]

@@raphaelreichmannrolim25 Don't want to be a bother, I look this up... pre Dyad? pre polarity? fascinating concept... I have a research poster you might like, I am pulling on these same threads... arithmological thought structures :) Beautiful things.

[@raphaelreichmannrolim25]

@@middleburyastrology That's só nice! I would be pleased to read anything you could share!

[@middleburyastrology]

@@raphaelreichmannrolim25 Thanks. Well, I suppose I only have the Cosmic Clock poster design to offer (from my channel) as my thoughts on arithmological structures in the field of time. It appears, if your looking for a thought structure and philosophy on the structure of time itself, that the Tetractys makes for a wondrous muse. The movement of non-form impelled motion in the dyad becoming form through the 2D ecliptic slice of time (plane) of the triad itself...then manifesting in the tetrad (as the 3D realm of matter) has been a fruitful thought shape. Thanks for listening :) I will look up Mario Ferreira dos Santos with my morning coffee. Have a great day! - Cavan

[@diannefitzmaurice9813]

@@middleburyastrology try reading Flatland - a masterpiece on this topic.

[@JSGH-JOE]

That was awesome! I listen rather than watch and Im about to play this vid a second time, and Im pretty sure Ive heard it before. THANK you!

[@tommyodonovan3883]

This is one of the best shows on YT

[@fretnesbutke3233]

I'm a pretty serious musician,and I grew up believing him to be the "Father of Western Music". Some later areas of interest led me to study the Persian Empire,and how it initiated one of the greatest periods of cultural cross-fertilization,connecting Egypt to Central Asia,Greece to India. After a time,I went back to examine Pythagoreanism in detail,and was struck by how Eastern,even Indian,his Ideas were.

[@schnoz2372]

Interesting

[@jimmyjames2621]

Well, where do you think peoples come from, lest you think they just sprang up out of the Earth from seeds, or the watery mists?

[@Shankarees]

Pythagoras’ father was Phoenician and his mother was Greek. He trained in the mysteries of Phoenician religion in the temples of Tyre, Phoenicia, and Baalbek, Phoenicia.

[@James_the_Builder]

How do you know?

[@iSuKOwnerS]

berber**

[@middleburyastrology]

Named after the Pythia of Delphi - Pythagoras :)

[@tommyodonovan3883]

The Phoenician's invented the alphabet

[@marksimons2759]

@@tommyodonovan3883 Who told you that?

[@goblin3359]

Absolutely fascinating. Thank you.

[@maroulio2067]

wonderful! thank you for this - I would like to learn more concerning theories about Pythagoras, although i don't see him as a "weird cult" leader.

[@MrArth13]

Why is it that whenever someone remembers Pythagoras for his religion, it is cast as something "weird, ridiculous, cultish" instead of as the holy man he was

[@plotinus393]

Then, when someone remembers a pedophile and mass murder, such as muhammad, he is adored as a holy man and savouir. The real cults are abrahamic.

[@wildmen5025]

Because people don't get the mysteries. Hail Pythagoras! May you guide your spiritual descendants!

[@johneli495]

Because you are living in a non ideal world 😊

[@ethanstiles948]

What religion isn’t cultish when using the traditional definition? The mystery schools were fundamental to ancient education, and even Plato’s academy owes some homage to them

[@MrArth13]

@@johneli495 We are living in a material world and I am a material girl 💅

[@EliAbramzon]

In Judaism there is an instruction to put the right shoe first - a sign that you should start your day positively. Eating beans was customary for mourning meals as their round shape resembled the cyclic nature of life. When gathering for a meal, you first pronounce the blessing over a whole loaf and only after that you break and give it to your partners at the meal.

[@hamiltonsarain9608]

Funny because it's a few minutes after midnight here and I'm ready to turn in. Thanks for another fine presentation.

[@jooshwilsoon3388]

Awesome job dude 👍

[@ricardopenamcknight6407]

In the book Greek and Roman Necromancy the author puts forward the idea that beans, because of the chemicals they contain, probably triggered the occasional weird dream which Necromancers would potentially use for divination and therefore they would be the gates to hell, also they might have like... souls in them or something. If you haven't read it then totally worth taking a look at.

[@tawan20082008]

more “cults” please

[@dogukan127]

You sir rock, keep up the great work

[@raimundomuthemba766]

Great stuff. Keep it up

[@lodgelawyer]

Fascinating (and complicating) elements for current Masonic lore that juxtaposes the 47th problem of Euclid and a relatively famed but legendary exclamation of Archimedes, before placing both in the mouth of Pythagoras. Enjoying your entire channel, and thank you.

[@NeoAstrisk]

What in the elden ring did you just say to me?

[@MrPolandball]

Freemasonary is a criminal mafia

[@valmarsiglia]

I've also read that the prohibition against beans had to do with the notion that they contained souls. Why? Precisely because they produced flatulence. Hear me out: in both Greek and Latin, the words for spirit (pneuma and spiritus) are connected to the word for breath, as seen in words like pneumatic and inspiration (and of course spirit itself). Therefore, any food that produces pneuma must contain souls, or so the Pythagoreans reasoned. Not only was eating beans cannibalism, it also resulted in the indignity of someone's soul being farted out.

[@TeaParty1776]

> indignity of someone's soul being farted out. Blazing Saddles

[@valmarsiglia]

@@TeaParty1776 Lol! All of them are burning in Pythagorean hell for sure.

[@AerialTheShamen]

Pythagoras taught us the harmonic laws of music. 🪗But we also know the song "Beans beans the musical fruit - the more you eat, the more you toot...". Who knows if he disliked them for sounding too inharmonious?! 🤔 That is to say, some ancient yoga lectures discourage the eat of things those bloat or cause bad smelling farts, including beans, onions, garlic, hot spices etc. As a yogi I don't strictly obey these (garlic keeps you healthy), but the concept comes close to a religious ban of beans.

[@repCanada]

Great content, would love more in depth analysis

[@WendysOccultCompass]

I loved this! Thank you.

[@abhinandup]

Reincarnation, different realms/ dimensions, siddha like powers, an ascetic way of life combined with vows of silence, vegetarianism, and a theorem that was explicitly laid out in the Vedic texts hundreds of years prior. I wonder if he might have been educated by the ancient Indians.

[@dubkonnection3420]

Probably

[@balachandrank4981]

If there was a Vedic connection, the westerners are reluctant to highlight it for reasons I don't know.

[@303TAG303]

I think the Greeks pretty much took their knowledge from Egypt and India

[@slickrick2420]

@@balachandrank4981 Because they don't want to give credit to non-Westerners

[@buddybaldur768]

The Indians got there holy texts from the Aryans. Pythagorus must have rediscovered this ancient knowledge

[@Sevenigma777]

I always thought Pythagoras was one of the first documented people who understood the connection of mathematics as a tool and language of creation and as most people in that time not being intelligent enough to grasp this lofty idea considered his thoughts and idea to be the founding of some metaphysical cult.

[@richardengelhardt582]

Yes, please, more on the theories of and philosophies expresses through mathematics!

[@nikehike]

Great video! Could you please do some more videos of Ancient cults from Ancient Greece? Thank you!