Infinity N5 Battle Report - Dashat Company vs PanOceania (Acquisition)

[@R0bertShepherd]

A battle report? In this economy? It's more likely than you think.

[@ds_has_several_cats]

Why can't we all just get along? ;_;

[@Griffolion0]

First the 5 hour tier list and now a batrep? We are truly blessed.

[@mordred158]

I'm part way through listening to your "hot takes and vibe check" video, so glad I get to contextualize some of these takes with actual gameplay now! I'm so looking forward to my own games in the new edition!

[@kroxitau]

This content is great. In addition to the verbal "show your work" style of commentary of why the battle unfolded the way it did with what resources, I do appreciate the table set up. I have a fair bit of terrain and am always looking for good table set up thought processes. I play tunguska nomads, one of my primary opponents plays Tohaa. I would request a battle report of tunguska vs tohaa please and thank you!

[@R0bertShepherd]

So I can't necessarily set both amies in a matchup - my battle reports are just games I play locally and what my opponents play is up to them! But I can certainly try to get a game in with Tohaa or Tunguska and maybe get to both. :)

[@kroxitau]

@R0bertShepherd eventually I am sure either will show up!

[@PsychoticStorm]

Really nice report, glad to see so many new interactions played so soon.

[@boskvonlivingdreams4269]

Good N5 battle report!

[@AraigumaTV]

Awww yessss. Perfect for my morning commute.

[@RattlerNxt]

Agree that I think Speedball is a bad rule. It is more things to pay attention to and account for, it helps the active turn and hurts the reactive (by helping the active turn accomplish its goals), and only happens in the active turn.

[@Naim_less]

Battle reports!!!!! I have missed these! :)

[@ItsRinaldo]

Hell yeah, new report. Might want to put N5 in the title to feed KZbin's monstrous algorithm.

[@R0bertShepherd]

Good call.

[@adityam7866]

Wakeup babe, a Robert Shepherd batrep dropped

[@ryandugan9176]

Was a great watch, do turrets feel oppressive? It seems like this list leans into them a bit more than the average list might, but did they feel worthwhile to potentially coordinate every turn?

[@R0bertShepherd]

I couldn't coordinate them in this list, but maybe. It's honestly hard to say - I need more practice with them.

[@ryandugan9176]

Fair. I almost wonder if they should have a hard cap just like guided shots. What did you think of that iss meme list?

[@corbeaubm]

My first N5 game was also dominated by turrets. I really hate how reliable and uninteractive it is to place them - Perimeter is an insane tag. Always has been, really, but there's a difference between dropping elements with an 8" reach and elements that reach across the entire goddamn table (Coordinated Order: deploy 4 Thunderbolt Turrets is a real soul-crush). At least you can fail with pitchers and mine dispensers, but Perimeter just happens. The only way I kept up facing it was a combination of turrets of my own and smoke to get onto objectives (which meant baggage-reloaded Disco, since I was playing PanO). It's suicide to try to sweep them all away - as you mentioned, trying just means you'll take chip damage from bad rolls as you trade even or behind on orders. Even with a gunfighter as good as Joan (who I was playing and who is stellar), crit happens. Game ended with one side of the board mired in an absurd no-mans-land of turrets on buildings staring at each other across streets full of dead troopers who'd tried to do anything active past the first turn. Possibly the worst part is that they mire the game down without doing anything to curb alpha strike, because basically no one has Minelayer. I dearly wish turrets didn't have Perimeter but that Minelayer troopers with turrets were far more common. I know it's early, but man that was not a positive experience.

[@penelo9114]

I think Baggage should be spend one order to reload everything in ZOC, no passive reload, and Turrets should be non-reloadable and more profiles with Minlayer like you said. I like their addition but I do think they are a bit too strong.

[@krobiekong4326]

Thank you for the report. How do you feel about how Deactivators don't need LOS? They can also do a normal roll in LOS of a turret to get rid of them. That might be how to deal with deployables in N5.

[@R0bertShepherd]

I think it's extremely relevant and if Kyle had remembered it this game it would have made a huge difference. Especially for clearing out the repeater without sending in HI or sacrificing a blade (a blade that has a deactivator!)

[@SoCrates505]

Interesting idea about EVO hackers and Speedball, but Speedball is an automatic skill that doesn't require an order, therefore no ARO is generated. And the program only affects "troopers" not tokens.

[@R0bertShepherd]

Hmm. That's an interesting point. I'm not sure how that shakes out but I think you might be right.

[@obyiscushobbyandgaming]

​@@R0bertShepherd I was coming to say the same thing. How it's worded right now it appears speedball won't be effected

[@R0bertShepherd]

@@obyiscushobbyandgaming speedball will be affected by assisted jump if either player has it up, but I don't think you can use it as an ARO.

[@obyiscushobbyandgaming]

@@R0bertShepherd but controlled jump specifies it effects enemy/allied troopers. The Speedball is not a trooper

[@R0bertShepherd]

​If speedball is not a trooper then it can't deploy at all as only troopers can use combat jump. So we need to read the rules as speedball deploying as if it was a trooper. But it's not spending an order so doesn't generate an ARO.

[@MrLordlyCalibur]

Have been looking at the Bounty Hunter character duos in Tunguska. Giving Miranda or Wolfgang(with Berserk change and Continuous damage I think he might get played a few times this edition) a sidekick that gives +1SD seems downright affordable.

[@R0bertShepherd]

It looks really solid.

[@RattlerNxt]

You mentioned bring a Long Ya as a combat remote. They aren't in Dashat correct? Did you mean Lu Duan?

[@R0bertShepherd]

I meant Lu Duan, yes :)

[@friendsokay5930]

What's the consensus about EVO vs the action to drop the speedballs in Aus? I'm in Melbourne but realistically I only play against one mate at the moment. I don't think it's an order to drop them using combat jump, can you get assisted jump off against it or are you spending a command token to start with the supportware up?

[@saviorgold]

I just wanna say that 2x red fury linked helots are a thing

[@bedwyr84]

Can anyone tell me why peacemakers are so good? They seem expressive for a road block?

[@R0bertShepherd]

They're the platonic ideal of a roadblock (repeater, disposable template, and a mine) while being able to attack very dangerously thanks to the forks you get from the flamethrower and shotgun.

[@OmegaZyklon]

To add to what Rob said: My knowledge of N5 isn't perfect, but Peacemakers are currently my favorite defensive ablative piece from any faction at the moment. And here's my reasoning: The alpha striking in this game is absolutely egregious. There a multitude of 8-8 (or even 6-6) super-jumping models that can roll into your DZ and just dismantle you turn 1. One of the only ways to really stop this is to have a forward-deployed repeater net ON TURN 0. If the repeater needs to be deployed, you may just die before you get a turn. Sooooo... Peacemakers do the following: 1) They are FD 8" Repeaters. This gives your hackers a shot to carbonite/oblivion incoming TAGs/vehicles before they get to your DZ. 2) They come with forward deployed shock mines. Obviously good for forcing additional orders or defensive measures out of alpha striking units. 3) They come with their standard heavy flamethrower template auxbot so they force the standard fork into any close-range engagements. Now you could make the argument that camoed FD/infiltrating minelayers are harder to deal with, but the repeater is absolutely key, and those units almost never come with T0 repeaters. That's my two cents.

[@motokokusanagi8806]

The speedball drops via combat jump are no troopers, sadly they dont get the bonus from controlled jump

[@R0bertShepherd]

That's very arguable - there have historically been a lot of rules that talk about 'troopers' but then there are fringe effects that need you to read the term more broadly. I would be happy to receive an official ruling either way, though.

[@motokokusanagi8806]

@R0bertShepherd yeah me too. Would be cool to have more "use" for evo. So hopefully cb faq's this ;) love your content. Happy holydays

[@tnexus13]

It's definitely arguable either way. My thought is combat jump refers to troopers arrival only, so if the reference to troopers in Controlled Jump doesn't count, Combat Jump doesn't count either. Therefore it has to count for both.

[@corbeaubm]

It would be nice if CB would clarify, because I have the same question. Though it would also be nice if CB would just banish speedball to the shadow realm.

[@vicioushellsing]

@@tnexus13 That is a logical fallacy. The rule for speedball says it is deployed "applying the combat jump skill rules" not that it has combat jump. Specifics in rules overrule generic rules. Rules as written, speedball does not benefit from combat jump. They can of course pull a CB special and put a little box in there that says otherwise.

[@ItsRinaldo]

Was the Blade over the Karhu just a points thing?

[@R0bertShepherd]

Blades seem better than Karhu as an engineer buddy for a tag. Tac aware doesn't use up a finite resource. The Karhu might have merit for climbing plus to follow the tikbalang, but wasn't needed on this table.

[@ItsRinaldo]

@@R0bertShepherd I guess with the climbing plus changes it makes it different. Always though a Karhu following Joan or a bulleteer around as emotional support paramedic or engi was a cool concept

[@TommieMartin-p5n]

I am sorry I cannot be a patreon but I was wondering if you might make a video explaining the strange terminology used by Infinity gamers like speedballs, pillowfists, discoballers, ect, ect ? Being a new player to Infinity does make the terms rather confusing.

[@R0bertShepherd]

Speedball and discoballs are both mechanics in the game - search for them in the rulebook and you'll find them. :) Calling something "pillow fisted" is a slang for saying it doesn't hit very hard.

[@TommieMartin-p5n]

@@R0bertShepherd Thank you for the reply and explinations. I have found over the years each game system tends to have it's own vocabulary. When me and my friends are trying to follow comments on the Discord channel.. we often find ourselves lost within the terminology/slang. Some can be found in the rulebook.. but many others cannot as they are truly "slang" terms. Differentiating between the two can be it's own can of worms. I am quite sure many new prospective players find it extremely intimidating to ask about those terms to the extent they just stay silent.

[@TheWujuStyle]

LESSGOOOOO

[@Blaze_Raven]

Feels like they need to roll back the free reload of the baggage rule. Free stuff has never been good for the health of any game.

[@Rahakanji]

Or remove the perimeter label from turrets. So you can still play them but have to invest to get them placed. Because the free reload is not as bad on mines (need to move in the right spot to place them). You can place a tower nearly anywhere for free on a line spanning the whole table (eng 8" to bot/Maggie, 8" 'range') this is the insane part.

[@jamespeterson9620]

I was pretty sure that speedball couldn’t be EVO hacked.

[@R0bertShepherd]

It (probably) won't generate an ARO, but it (probably) will be affected if either player has Assisted Jump already up.

[@goorie]

LFG!

[@corbeaubm]

I'm dyin' to hear what sort of play patterns you encountered during your weekend event (playing or running); downright ravenous for more data. The N5 games I've been watching and playing among my group have been very defensive, all still being live going into the last turn. Speedball has been relatively minor in effect (by which I mean it only kills 1-2 extra troopers during the alpha - impactful but not insane) because everyone is too terrified to divert points from defensive investment to pay for the power offense pieces that can best exploit speedball. It's just a sea of turrets, mines, linked snipers, and max-AVA TR bots over here. Turrets are still pretty ridiculous imo, but at least the real absurdity is concentrated in just a few factions. Playing against O-12 for my first game of N5 was a worst case scenario. Not everyone can vomit 8-16 (depending on command token investment) Thunderbolt turrets out at the top of turn 1.

[@R0bertShepherd]

The two most powerful use of Speedballs so far have been a mix of expected and unexpected. Expected: TAG gets extra wound. Unexpected: close combat monster gets Jetpack. Turrets so far have been influential but not yet dominant. However, I've already started putting countermeasures into lists. WIP14 engineers with smoke nearby can auto-turn them off in ZOC through smoke which gives me clean mission play if I'm going second. If I'm going first, I'll just kill the bastards as most turrets are not up by then.

[@Donnergraf]

Valerya whiffing 5 carbonites. Yes thats the average experience with her. And still i bring her to mist white co lists. I hope laxmee breaks the curse