Innovation in one of Yugioh's Oldest Formats

[@JanjoZone]

I agree. Had a chat with someone last night during my PSV Tier List stream about the metagame in Goat. We still see new decks make it to top cut fairly often like with: Chaos Relinquished, Cold Wave Monarch, Thunder Clap, even recently with Relinquish Burn. It just depends on the player taking the time to try it out and make it work at a high level. Even with CT mirror, top level has such a unique Chess-like approach that I feel you don't get with future formats.

[@maxmaus4402]

I don't really play old formats much, but this video reminded me of some of the things I've seen in Cimoo's History series. There's often decks in any format that can and do top when played at their peak, but are ignored by the playerbase at large due to not being on the radar (like Marco Perico's World Chalice). Being able to identify your pet deck's strengths and weaknesses relative to the meta is a really cool skill to develop, and is definitely an interesting way to approach improvement no matter the format. Bonus points for making me look up OG Mudora and the release date of Venus, totally thought she was first released in the Agent structure deck

[@TheWatchmanOfTheEnd]

I made a deck I called "Tsunami" that was based on spamming frogs in teh grave with Lightsworns and spaming Judgment Dragon. Ronontoad was a cracked card in the deck because it spam milled. The interesting part is at the time, Effect Veiler was at 3 in every deck. Players would Veiler my Judgmet Dragon and I'd normal summon a swap frog just to use its effect to bounce Judgement Dragon back to my hand and blow up the board anyway. Even better was Herald is a Rank 2 XYZ monster I could make EASILY with Frogs like Ronintoad and use its effect to add Judgment Dragons I milled from my Graveyard to my hand. The deck was totally doodooing on every meta deck of the time while I was playing it for no reason other than no one meta deck was prepared for all the out of the box checks I made for them.

[@SnackMuay]

Good discussion. I especially loved the section at the end where you talked about innovative deckbuilders and showcased numerous unique lists that have had some success.

[@greyce1667]

Thanks for watching Snack! Massive fan of the content you’ve made over at crow’s nest.

[@Melchid4FB]

I like what you said about playing more "off meta" strategies as a way to gain the edge in tournaments. Thats why I play the goat control lists that I do. I also just like playing cards that I thought were cool when I played as a kid when goat was current format like airknight, jinzo, lily, cyber jar. I like this format for nostalgia of course but also because there are a lot of strategies that are viable other than turbo and warriors. Glad to see more people playing them at the last pwcq. Youre the man greyce keep it up!

[@proxidize5738]

Brilliant topic and widely applicable to CCG's at large, players need to hear this

[@camposnw10]

Chaos turbo plays more “good stuff” and can minimize duo. Card destruction is a forty trinity , things like that make the deck the most consistent

[@ryankeathley995]

what do you mean by 'forty trinity'. Like its really good it 40 card decks? Aren't all goat format decks 40?

[@camposnw10]

@@ryankeathley995 card D in turbo is as good or better then pot/ duo/ graceful. I don’t understand what tripped you up lol

[@ryankeathley995]

​@@camposnw10I think you meant to type "fourth trinity" which makes perfect sense. but "forty trinity" is implies deck size is relevant, which you just clarified it isn't

[@camposnw10]

@@ryankeathley995 my bad I didn’t realize I typed forty, wondering what the heck you were talking about lol

[@LNRDi]

I had a similar experience with GOAT when I was playing it a lot on DB. I felt like the best decks weren't as strong (in my hands, due to familiarity) as this weird Last Turn pile i'd built that I was very comfortable with as a pilot. Comfort and finding an edge come hand in hand.

[@greyce1667]

10000%. I think it’s just a bit of a tougher learning curve with something lower tier, I hope people can continue to push through those rough first few matches until they find something they can be comfortable with

[@MrSunglxzz]

@@greyce1667 people believe the format is solved which causes rogue decks or some unpredictable choices to win events, people are used to play vs. warrior and turbo but struggle once they have to duel something unusual like mudora fairies.^^

[@pikefreak7198]

Amazing video as always and 100% agreed on the points made! 👏🏼 And thanks for the mention, feeling honored..! 🙏🏼

[@greyce1667]

Thanks bro! Keep doing your thing

[@pikefreak7198]

@@greyce1667 Much apprechiated bro and same goes to you, keep up the great work! 💪🏼👏🏼

[@Railmydad]

Babe shut up greyce posted a new vid!!❤

[@UltanOfficial]

Rex Speedman knows what deck people should be playing in Goat. Everything he says he is true.

[@Keon994]

I had a lot of success playing a fusion gate chaos turbo online. I had a lot of fun brining out dark paladin, twin headed thunder dragon and using return from another dimension. I remember doing some fun stuff like filling up the board and then summoning cannon soldier to use it's effect and sacrifice everything. then I fuse a fusion substitute + cannon soldier for labyrinth tank. I use return from another dimension....bring back cannon soldier again and use it's burn effect again.

[@streetguru9350]

If master duel had sealed or progression series tournaments for older card lists, that'd probably help a lot.

[@michaelmorales1602]

I'm fairly new to Goat format. Really only looking into it bc my friend wasn't too serious about grinding modern for YCS Vegas, so we decided to opt into the Ultimate Time Wizard event instead, where I was assigned Goat because of my strong Yu-Gi-Oh! fundamentals. When looking over the card pool, I can't help but come up with deck ideas that might not be good, but can certainly have potential. Since there's not much time before the YCS, I've decided to just go for a standard list for the event. If I end up doing well and having fun, I might decide to revisit some of my janky ideas through a different lens; one where I'll actually have experience in the format to build off of.

[@Prodigial]

Chaos is the best because, not only do they play the best cards the most consistently, but they play them more effectively. Cards like Duo and Charity are better in Chaos than anything else because they have discard fodder that gives them +1 or makes your trinity piece go 1 for 1. This makes cards like Card Destruction go from a -1 inherently to a "4th trinity piece" that lets them go positive. They cycle their deck faster than any other and, thus, are gonna draw the broken cards of GOAT the most. They ALSO get to use their GY as a resource far stronger than most decks. Having the same number of cards as them but with them having a loaded GY mean they are beating you. The deck is just oppressive to the point where ladder play has hardly any variety once you start playing players of higher rank. I still enjoy playing the format with "for fun" decks, but playing any deck other than Chaos Turbo is just handicapping yourself. Tourney results outside of worlds really is just lying to people about the diversity of this format. There is little benefit of "mastering" a rogue deck as compared to simply improving at Chaos Turbo. AlephYa is insanely skilled but none of those decks are gonna win with any consistency and he's one of the best players to ever play the format.

[@azalienishimura103]

Video update, Reasoning Gate just won TOC and Stein Zombie Fiend Megacyber went undefeated.

[@hnvb-8690]

Thank you, Greyce!

[@greyce1667]

Much love dude!

[@andrewwerner8566]

Great video and discussion on this!

[@greyce1667]

Thanks for watching!

[@celtic1842]

An older format it's how you play your generic spells and traps cards. At least in my opinion and my experience playing order formats. It's on how you use your cards to the best of your ability and how many good cards you're playing you don't necessarily have to play the best deck. But usually five of the best monsters five of the best spells and five of the best traps and you'll usually do pretty good especially if you are a decent player at the game / format

[@THEpuy]

Wonderful video, and thanks so much for the endorsement! It warms my heart to see the range of decks I’ve topped with laid out in that way. I think this video spoke so well to both the meta fanatics and the people who think they’re going to resolve the entire format. This is one of my absolute favorite topics to discuss. It was the kind of thing my channel was originally made to talk about, as I think there are many psychological and even micro-sociological reasons why Goat Format (nor any game not being updated anymore) will NEVER reach some sort of tier 0 territory. TLDR there are just too many people not interested in/can’t hang with the best deck(s), so there will be always be people who innovate or otherwise break through the meta. Good work greyce!

[@foxsteve9937]

any format is better than the garbo we have nowadays

[@machAcab]

okay i know ima get flack but i have an archfiend list for goat format that's actually sick.

[@ManosAlpha]

Both caressing and slapping our face cheeks, Greyce? That's an interesting treatment 😁 Formats have had their "Tier 0" or at least peak moments. I can't decide if it's one or the other for Goats, but it looks, throughout its lifespan and the numerous innovations and trials and wins, like there are 2-3 decks that the rest can't top statistically speaking. For this to happen, people should be willing to play by either "ignoring" CT and Warrior's existence or hard countering them. But like you said, this acts as a bad catalyst and noone likes bad catalysts, unless they... accept their fate or... are mechanics and don't mind getting their hands dirty. There're middle ground in deck building of course...

[@Scubasage]

I think part of the reason a lot of the innovative lists you showcase at the end don't see much adoption is that the vast majority of them are old decks just being resurfaced (stuff like Cat OTK, Zombies, Relinquished, Monarchs) rather than something brand new, or they're just a standard list but they toss in 1-2 cards different, like your example of Warriors with 1 Magician of Faith. While a microinnovation like that could give them the edge, it isn't exactly enticing for players who want to play something different. It's still Warriors at the end of the day. Chaos Control is just Chaos Turbo with Scapegoat and Meta thrown in. Again, might give the edge, but it's not a different deck in the way that people wanting unique decks or more variety at the top tables of events are looking for.

[@MummyNapkin970]

Came here after losing at my local with my hungry burger turbo deck

[@greyce1667]

Best comment LMAO and the shapesnatch profile pic

[@MummyNapkin970]

@@greyce1667 haha cheers mate. Also enjoyed your discussion about goat a lot!

[@teamnarrowspades9726]

I dont need to watch this to tell you goat is solved

[@HaydenSupaTee]

Think the more unexplored strategies could involve Last Will or Cold Wave. Not saying they haven’t seen success but they’re just unfair cards not being played because people would rather just play chaos turbo all day (and statistically, rightfully so)

[@lavendertown8883]

zombies FTW!

[@shawshankstank7765]

I play blue-eyes last will and I have a 40% win rate to prove it

[@beautyorpower5288]

this video almost gave me the most free patreon tourney ever. keep it up!

[@greyce1667]

😂 you’re welcome!

[@stylecologne]

Goat was supposed to be good but it's not the case anymore. Would prefer Edison or Tengu

[@ChadKing69]

I prefer Goat over Edison because I’m Goated

[@greyce1667]

🔥🔥🔥

[@GhGh-gq8oo]

>her no

[@donp2314]

Love how ppl in the comments sayin the meta is solved after fckin double tap thundeeclap won a tourney

[@schaves71]

I believe that everyone should come to the point where we must accept that Turbo is a thing and somehow you are going to lose to it. Hard countering it barely helps and hurts literally every other matchup so if your aim is competitive play, go for Turbo. For everything else just enjoy your potential piles new ideas but most of all, have fun

[@greyce1667]

I think there's ways to remain competitive with other decks. You make a good point that trying to counter turbo makes you weak to other decks, but sometimes.. that's enough. Wavements list for example is very good into turbo but struggles against agro, that's just the tradeoff you take and the deck has done well. Some of the best off meta strategies are the ones that can hang against turbo while other being versatile enough to (somewhat) handle other decks. Like burn, earth, etc.

[@mattjustleft]

Do I know you? I’m the founder of Nostalgic Duelist. I’d love to chat with you about this subject.

[@alastoralex4828]

Hungry burger turbos is not good? 😢 My dream is dead.

[@beitno3029]

Turbo is the easiest good deck to play. That’s why people play it in big tournaments

[@ETRHeydrich]

So the answer is its solved, if you want to cook something you have to take into account the decks that already solved the format. Anyone that has played goat for more than a month already knew this. At this point the community has to create a bankist for it if they want innovation.

[@lucaslennan3356]

If that were what "solved" meant you would be correct. Unfortunately that just means there's a metagame that exists. In other words there are other players and you have to think about what they might be doing to plan around it, which is true of every competitive game ever. Solved means there is NO opportunity for trying new things.

[@jameswilliams2269]

I'd like to see BLS banned. Then creative decks and decks that don't play Light and Dark monsters could still do well. For example, Shaggy Powers got 2nd place in a tournament with an EARTH deck. If BLS had been banned, he might have gotten 1st, and that would have completely changed people's image of the format.

[@CasinoBoi]

Earth Aggro is a good deck though...

[@THEpuy]

We recently played a tournament with BLS, Duo, and Ring all banned. It was the most fun I’ve had playing goats in a while and was tangibly because of these changes. The meta was more diverse and the best players still proved to be the best! I’d like to do more goats without these dumb cards.

[@THEpuy]

@giwrgospetrou1159 it’s almost unfathomable how wrong this is. The card profoundly warps goat format games and the goat meta as a whole. Would be better without it for sure.

[@solaris_cc4353]

​@@THEpuyAgreed. I get why they banned CED in the first place but they should have banned BLS as well. Classic Konami even at the time, I guess

[@TheRoseReaper]

This was upperdeck if I'm looking at this correctly. @@solaris_cc4353 And by this, I mean the research.

[@thijsvandorssen7471]

Cool video. You just should't disregard your own skills so much imo.

[@Anytyme06]

They should stop making new archetypes and just cycle the top 50-80 most popular archetypes into the meta.

[@phamvuminh8435]

As much as I agree with you, that's how they make consistent money. Say they print like 3 support cards for Rescue-Ace. Everybody and their mothers who play rescue ace will get hype and buy them but that's about it. A new Archetype is guaranteed to bring them at least 20+ profit at least.

[@Mecha_phant0m]

Respectfully, Hard disagree. the new archetypes they add are one of the things that keep me constantly interested in the game And frankly even if they went ahead with this idea, it would get so damn boring to see a revolving door of the same faces over and over as they continue to be endlessly inflated with redundancy and continuous power creep away from there old best in archetype. Seeing 6 samurai come back with new relevant stuff would be kinda cool, seeing them constantly come back again and again with more and more would just be stagnant in the worst way.

[@random135246]

Or like actually design formats and not archetypes that run perfect engines

[@wolfen888]

Say what you want but from a spectator viewpoint, modern ygo is dogsh…

[@AcVinicious]

why are ppl seemingly so obsessed with '' the meta is not solved '' ? the meta is solved... what do you expect ? but why would it be bad ? if the meta is 20 + - years old and still enjoyed to This Day. thats a Win ? so yea, there will always be cryheads that just ignore the meta and want to bruteforce win without much thought and then blame the meta if they fail to do so.

[@boasfoasfasf8017]

Goat is trash it was fun 4 years ago

[@greyce1667]

Thanks for watching!