inside a power chair gearbox! (VLOG 435)

Today we take apart a pride powerchair gearbox so you can see what kind of sorcery is happening behind closed doors! (and BTW i scraped out most of that grease before i put it back together lol)
VLOG # 333 (permobil motor tear-down) - - - • inside a wheelchair mo...
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[@BestICan]

I'm learning a lot from your work. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@stormtrooper88]

hi dan! thanks for the peak into the motors. reminded me of power window motors. also found myself just watching the gears and grease spinning, very calming. reminded me of a taffy pulling machine i used to watch for hours at fishermans warf in monterey ca. sent your pkg to your new address, should be there 7/3/19. no food or coffee though! lol take care! ps. don't forget to make your cold brew!...bill

[@KN-sd9lt]

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

[@andrewnorgrove6487]

You can bed the brushes in by applying some very fine sand paper around the armature ! i use wet and dry paper but using it dry Then rotate clockwise by hand

[@VitorFlaibam]

I loved the video. I was wondering what my wheelchair looked like from the inside

[@christijarrett]

Ya I have the same problem on my quantum my right motor makes a clicking noise it’s more anoing than any thing but I haven’t pulled it apart to see what’s up

[@knobcreekoutdoors135]

I love my c300 never had a problem with mine. but now I have a v6fronter its not the off road like it was suppose to be. but a story for time but I did lights and turn singles lol and big motors .but im getting v5 tires I hope they work

[@user-hj4qi1wn8m]

Hala in my own one of the engines weak rotation and the second natural as possible you say from the is

[@aaronali822]

Strawberry lemonade grease 😂

[@BryanDiepstraten]

Good one.

[@davidbroad4834]

Thank you.

[@markr.2781]

If I may say that you should clean the carbon out between the commutator contacts. Thank you for your time, knowlege, and videos.

[@dougcrawford2587]

I would be interested to know if the gear ratio could be changed to accomodate a faster speed on a UGV?

[@stephenyoungblood3683]

It’s good to set your brushes with 400 grit wrapped around your commutator towards the brushes.

[@penfold7800]

Looks and sounds to me like the clicking noise is the wormgear on the motor spindle is missaligned or chewed up to the state that it's started chewing the angled teeth on the brass trans gear (which looks really damaged). This could have been caused by too much strain on the drive by either driving it up an incline too steep or carrying too much weight.

[@MrInfinitymanagement]

how do you remove the bearing from this gearbox?Your working on.Thank you

[@nixonsmateruby1]

Hello from England, hope your safe and well. I bought a used electric wheelchair for someone just for a few weeks, and on the motors is a small L shaped handle that engages/disengages the gear, but the other "arm" is missing, so what do I ask for if I want to buy one? Cheers mate for the video. (Or can I remove the spring as there is a working one on the other motor)

[@TinNguyen-rx3mf]

Hi! Have a Jazzy Passport that I use every now and then. The right motor is leaking thick red fluid (grease?) from the black rubber cap in the back of the square block (maybe gear box). I tried cleaning the hole and cap and push the cap all the way in but when I use it the fluid still pushes the cap out. Do I have to replace the rubber cap? It also has a rubber cap on the side like the motor in your video. However, the in the back is smaller.

[@brenda7655]

why is my Q6 Edge Z have the Code #193 Motor 2 disconnected and it also had a warning#179

[@MilarepaProject]

Can I please ask..when the box with the cogs in and grease makes a clicking sound as the cogs turn...what is the problem and can it be fixed? I drove my powerchair for some years and then 2 of my powerchairs ended with this click like metal hitting metal. I removed the magnetic cylinder & put a different magnetic cylinder on and the clicking remained where the cogs were - it didnt move when the cylinder moved to the other location. Thank you

[@stephenyoungblood3683]

I want to test each motor with 24 bolts directly. Can I? If so, which connections are neg and pos? There are 2 white, one red, and one black plug?

[@ysir2589]

Hy i have same motor but one side motor don't work properly tire jam little bit please tell solution

[@pl747]

Is that a brass gear or a plastic gear the motor pinion is turning?

[@GiesbertNijhuis]

I am very interested in wheelchair repair/technology, so thanks for this one! Even though it may not be worth the work, I (as a viewer) would prefer completely cleaning out the old gear grease, because that could contain metal dirt, and gives the opportunity to inspect the condition of the gears. Clean, inspected, and fresh grease (not too much!).

[@TotallyNormal-]

yea - lol - this chair was a dumpster find - figured it could be a guinea pig for a few projects :^) i'm just tired of living in apartments.. much harder to use the solvent tank, or fire up the sandblaster in here, for a proper refurb!

[@GiesbertNijhuis]

@@TotallyNormal- Me too: I am building my own wheelchair, a better wheelchair, in my living-room. Not enough SPACE, not enough tools, not enough help. You may find my project of interest, although it is more aimed at people with even less function: www.laesieworks.com/superchair/index.html I am currently working on the business plan, as this is much bigger then I together with some friends can handle.

[@TotallyNormal-]

awesome! keep us informed about the progress!

[@GiesbertNijhuis]

@@TotallyNormal- Yes; I will drop you a line when there is important news. Being almost completely paralyzed does slow me down a lot, but I will attempt to finish this mission impossible of producing a new and better type of wheelchair. Thanks for all your videos, especially the wheelchair-technical ones.

[@laurentipping5783]

Hi

[@SkipHDP]

Hey viewers, not many KZbinrs out there that provide us with this interesting wheelchair information. If you aren't already supporting the channel, might be a good time to do so to ensure that the content will keep coming (Patreon or PayPal). Roll on.

[@kennybruce2597]

You are awesome

[@mzositshsbsusoapksns-mh1ym]

Friend, a good video. Could you tell me what type of grease you use? Thank you greetings from Spain

[@rayadamick8245]

Good How To

[@mzositshsbsusoapksns-mh1ym]

Hello friend, good day, magnificent videos and explanations. Could you help?Is the motor gear cover together? If so, what type of material is it and where could I get it? Thanks and regards

[@KJMcLaws]

I saw a guy pull one of these apart and then fill it with lithium grease. He ended up scraping it level with the top. 100% completely full lol.

[@theodoresears4369]

I need your help. I left my uncle's rascal scooter outside it got very damp. Now it does not move. I think frost got into motor control.

[@samarmas5082]

What are the speed motors

[@mickeystead5758]

i have a j6 powerchair can speed be turned up

[@brianbiro9094]

You have "The BLOB" COUGHT IN YOUR GEARCASE LOL 👊👍✌️🦅🦼🇺🇸

[@samsien9105]

I think(one) the very thin washer between motor and transmission war out, because the motor run back ward and forward, the rotter will press the washer war out, needs to change a new one, (2) the brush housing and the brushes when it hot will make loose space,(3) do not put too much grease it will increase the heat in gear box. i am not a mechanic, but i use chair like you.

[@erickennison7525]

As the brushes wear the copper commutator also wears leaving the nonconductive material which separates the copper segments of the commutator above the surface of the copper, these slits and this material should be cut down below the surface of the copper using a dremal with a thin cutoff wheel, this will stop the brushes from jumping.

[@33a333]

very thanks vidio

[@robertdoucette6858]

Hey man, can a guy replace the oil seal on the driveshaft?

[@markwalther902]

Oddly satisfied. Could a person switch the primary drive gear to the secondary drive gear to make it haul ass?

[@TotallyNormal-]

the shafts are different sizes...no go on a swap - also the gear reduction is needed to keep all the gears from shredding themselves (BTW regarding your previous comment - EVERY single comment you see on this channel, has been manually approved by one of us. responding to them ALL is physically impossible. )

[@Bennostatefair]

Hi I've had a few Pronto M51's that have had that black plastic quarter sized plug on the gear box fall out leaving a greasy mess behind. Any ideas on what causes this and how to keep them from falling out in the first place?

[@TotallyNormal-]

i had one chair that kept doing the same thing.. the first time it was because the motors overheated pretty badly.. (i was climbing large hills) and after that the seal seemed to just not hold anymore.. i ended up drilling holes and pinning it in place with a small, sacrificial allen wrench and a lot of epoxy haha

[@uraniumrod6808]

What rpm is the motor itself

[@timothycombs688]

sweet vid ? though what was making your chair to stop when you was in it the bounder chair i think it was

[@TotallyNormal-]

showed a clip of repairing the faulty connector in the last video.. it was basically a connector that had somehow broken, and kept coming unplugged lol its always something!

[@halfstep67]

Informative video. Usually using a worm gear in a right angle gearbox is the least efficient way to transfer the power. The parallel shaft reducer like the one in this video is more efficient.

[@TotallyNormal-]

exactly! but somehow the way permobil implemented it in the other style motors, with the materials used - there's WAY less power loss occurring!

[@halfstep67]

@@TotallyNormal- Thanks for the reply. I am looking at motorizing my hunting cart. I broke both my ankles and my back and after several surgeries on both ankles and my back plus a quadruple bypass, I have a harder time getting deer out of the woods. After looking at different options, it looks like using parts off of a used motorized wheelchair is the best option. It looks like I would be better off buying a good used wheelchair as to buy the parts separately. My deer cart have 15" wheels/tires on it now. I will be walking behind it so it doesn't need to be fast, just powerful to climb hills. What would be some good used powerful heavy duty wheelchairs to lookout for? My deer cart looks similar to this one, www.ebay.com/itm/Hawk-Crawler-500-Lb-Capacity-Foldable-Multi-Use-Deer-Game-Recovery-Cart-Black/352904669711?epid=17034413994&hash=item522ac1ea0f:g:-TUAAOSwRqxeANNA Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[@TotallyNormal-]

YES! def get a complete used chair.. that way ya have all the parts etc ya need! just try and stay away from rehab chairs that have power seating.. that way disconnecting unneeded things doesn't cause issues.. also ALWAYS assume the batteries are bad when getting a used chair.. even if they say they're 'brand new" if youre going to use a chain drive pretty much anything will work.. but if you just want to attach the wheels directly to the motors.. something like a jazzy chair with a van seat, or a pronto M51 are usually pretty inexpensive and have decent power... just make sure its got right-angle motors. avoid the hover-rounds or other chairs that have GIANT cables the size of your thumb coming out of the joystick. those things are getting old and have major reliability issues. plus its a lot harder to hack up the wiring and use it for other projects

[@halfstep67]

@@TotallyNormal- Thanks a bunch. What size chain is typically used on these chairs?

[@TotallyNormal-]

the chairs dont use chain.. BUT a lot of people that use the motors for other propulsion projects use chain drives to get the speed/gear ratios right for whatever size wheels theyre using

[@motojoe5421]

Ah you can never have too much lube ! great video .

[@zareerwadia2787]

My wife uses a Quickie Tango wheel chair It makes a lot of "cluck cluck " sound when she stops and releases the joystick. What is that sound and how to stop it. Please can you help me I live in India. Can't get much help here.

[@nemoskull2262]

2:41 for acutal disasembly

[@alfak]

Nice video! Love the way the grease turns with those gears... Do you know any way to speed up this type of 24V?

[@TotallyNormal-]

more voltage = more speed! :^) but most all of the brands only operate on 24 volts. however DC electric motors dont care.. ya can pretty much stuff whatever voltage ya want in there! (not a practical project though)

[@alfak]

​@@TotallyNormal- Thank you for your quickly response! Why you mean is not "practical project"? Is not worth buy a $15 controller (24v 250/500w) and swap with the original one? Really appreciate

[@TotallyNormal-]

power chairs need to be driven with a PWM motor control..and the controller needs to be capable of 90-120 amps. (somewhere around 2500-3000 watts- but watts is kinda irrelevant with PWM) and they're not 'linear drive' like most industrial electric motor applications. you'd need something like a roboteq motor controller, and some pretty custom software to get anything that's usable/drive-able at all.. wheelchairs dont just simply ramp up the voltage to increase speed - its actually pretty complicated control software to make everything smooth, and usable :^)

[@TotallyNormal-]

also - here's a video briefly explaining PWM - kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2atip6deLeVeKs

[@alfak]

@@TotallyNormal- Thank you very much for all that info! Lovely!

[@kellytaylor3915]

I have a Jazzy HD can you show how the electric brakes work

[@TotallyNormal-]

i show it in a bit more details in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpLYkmp5ba2kea8 skip to 8:23 but the concept is the same pretty much no matter what chair you're using :^)

[@basook6116]

interesting, handyman

[@408slickone]

It would be very nice if you could please do a video on quickie wheelchair motors

[@TotallyNormal-]

Ive got a quickie S-626 that has a bad motor on it.. so its definitely on the list of things to take apart! those motors are hard to find, and i dont really wanna buy 2 new ones! so i'll be taking it apart at some point to repair :^)

[@408slickone]

@@TotallyNormal- nice I can't wait to see that. As for myself I have a quickie experience 2

[@motorsandvoltsandrobots7162]

Did you manage to tear that motor all the way down ? I need to change the output shaft on the exact same motor .

[@TotallyNormal-]

a lot of them have gears that are pressed and or pinned on.. not super easy to do... :^/

[@motorsandvoltsandrobots7162]

@@TotallyNormal- I will give it a try and report my findings .

[@josephvida1439]

Now if only I knew how to take out the output shaft so I could maybe put a smaller gear on there in hopes of the wheelchair going a little faster...I guess it would lose torque though trying to climb hills...I wish I was smarter...

[@ernestmurphy3898]

I was attempting to make a trailer tug. The motor I have has a wheel on both sides it says it is 24 volts. It looks like it has hard rubber capture mount at the end next to the wheels there is just one motor the axel runs underneath. I don't know the manufacturer and I'm wondering how complicated is it to control it.

[@TotallyNormal-]

hmm usually these operate with a 24 volt motor controller... sounds like an interesting motor though if its got 2 wheels on it!

[@ernestmurphy3898]

@@TotallyNormal- no obvious brushes, it does not appear over used. Would you suggest a raspberry pi? there are 4 wires two for the brake and two for the motor I don't have any thing that controls it. Possibly found on of those chairs that assist but not required for mobility because of the low profile. Maybe a scooter with handle bars. But this didn't come with that stuff.

[@TotallyNormal-]

the brake coils will either be 12 or 24 volts.. just apply power to it when ya want the motor to turn freely... does it have an axle or differential that the wheels are connected to? might be for some kinda mobility cart or similar... theres a lot of inexpensive motor controllers that would probably work for it.. under load though some of those motors can easily pull 80-90 amps though..

[@ernestmurphy3898]

@@TotallyNormal- there is a reduction gear the axel shaft runs through pretty cool design for what I am hoping to create. Many people use a modified winch from harbor freight. This intended use is pretty short duration and a battery tender should work to keep the battery's up between uses.

[@davidemillerjr]

Hope you can help me out. I've got a m300 hd, tracks great while driving and doesn't move at all while joystick not being used. ( brakes hold strong). Now i just got a c300 and it is very hard to steer, doesn't track well driving fast or slow. and while stopped the chair will move back and forth about 1/2" and feels sloppy from the gearbox. Question is I guess, is this normal movement from the c300 and if not, can the gears be tightened up? New to using chairs (Progressive MS issues). Your videos are great. Appreciate your time and efforts.

[@TotallyNormal-]

couple things to check.. i got an old used C300 and it wouldn't track straight.. my problem was a bunch of hair and other gunk that built up in the rear castor wheel bearings.. keeping them from spinning freely.. if youre experiencing slop/movement when stopped - its most likely the woodruff key in the hub that connects the motor shaft to the wheel. (theyre a pain to get loose sometimes.) ive got another video where i take apart one of the permobil motors here.. ya can take a look and see the "gearboxes" are pretty simple.. they can wear out.. but it takes a LOT of miles before that happens! video ---> kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpLYkmp5ba2kea8 hope this helps!

[@davidemillerjr]

Thanks for the quick response. Will be looking into the key first thing tomorrow. If not the problem, I'll open up the cases. I'll let you know.

[@TotallyNormal-]

3 or 4 bolts hold the wheel onto the hub - then the center gold colored bolt is what holds the hub onto the motor shaft. if its badly worn it may come off easily. but i usually have to use a puller to remove them - good luck! let me know what ya find!

[@davidemillerjr]

Finally got to looking into my problem. It was the keys on both sides. Cut some new pieces, Installed and drives good as new. Thanks for your time and help.

[@TotallyNormal-]

nice work!! glad ya got it done!

[@timothyhoserramerine7634]

Will a F5 controller make a F3 faster?

[@TotallyNormal-]

the motor controllers are identical.. its the gearing (and sometimes RPM) of the motors that make the 5 series chairs faster

[@nixonsmateruby1]

Ahhhhhhh, so the pin is just for free wheeling when the battery runs out on the wheel chair!!!???

[@The_Joker_]

“See if I can’t get the motor aligned” I find this strange.

[@nathanieltyler4587]

whats the ratio per turn on the wheel?

[@TotallyNormal-]

most chairs its somewhere between 18:1 and 35:1 depending on 'things' :^)

[@metinulusoy4759]

hello, I reducer need to change the gear oil of the and I don't know which oil to use. Which oil should I use for best efficiency? can you help me? thanks google translate

[@TotallyNormal-]

most all motors are a bit different, i just try and identify the grease/oil that was already in the gearbox, and use the same

[@metinulusoy4759]

@@TotallyNormal- Thanks for your answer. Well, you must have done a lot of testing. Is there a type of oil you can recommend for the kind of transmissions you tried in the video?

[@mickeystead5758]

can we use bigger gears

[@TotallyNormal-]

i havent been able to find any different gear-sets that are compatible :^/

[@angieworley5486]

Hello there first time viewer. Thanks for posting this video. I’m a pretty good hands on guy and am wheelchair dependent 95% I can walk some but not far and it’s everything I can do to walk. I’m a big guy and I’ve been in four chairs now. Each a different chair, brand, and all. I’m in a pride jazzy 600 right now and I think the motor is going out on the left side. How do I find replacement parts to fix the motor. I actually think it’s the gearbox but nonetheless! It makes a whining sound. And pauses at times for moments just started this in the last week. I’m on a fixed income and can’t afford a lot. Was just looking at eBay to purchase new used ones? Or should I rebuild? And again where to get the replacement bearings, seals, gears etc….! Any help would be greatly appreciated. If you could steer me in the right direction.

[@TotallyNormal-]

first thing to check are the motor brushes. carbon builds up over time - and sometimes ya can find replacement brushes! other parts however, dont seem to be available anywhere.. but taking the brush housings apart, and checking the commutator & cleaning everything in there is something that should be done occasionally. monster scooter parts seems to have SOME brushes available.. www.monsterscooterparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=motor+brushes of if you can find a local electric motor repair shop, they might be able to make a set for ya, IF they need replacing. but cleaning and LIGHTLY sanding the commutator with super fine grit (if its super dirty) should help things

[@angieworley5486]

@@TotallyNormal- THANKYOU SO MUCH. This is really helpful and I appreciate any assistance. It’s really discouraging when you go to a specialist and they say no we can’t fix it but we can put a new one on for you. That’s the way it’s getting to be with everything. I appreciate you taken the time to respond to my comment. That means a lot.

[@loyeantleyjr.8646]

Hi!

[@dlhvac1]

You had to post a McRib

[@aa999xyz]

those Invacare gearless brushless motors setups were complete junk and unreliable! The main wiring connection for those motors were on the front of them and very acceptable to the water from the front wheels getting inside of them! Living in the Midwest with snow and endless amount of rain was only about a year or less life expectancy of them? Those chemicals they put on the ground to melt the snow wreaked havoc inside of those motors! Been much happier with the bounder set up but the only thing is the motors don't fully disengage from the belt drive

[@celticqaidbear]

Rivers of lube. Lol