Inside XR Design - Beat Saber’s VR Design Breakthrough is NOT Rhythm

[@Verociity]

Although I clicked for Beat Saber Its great to see more videos on Until you fall, but this video probably missed its target audience with this title. Until you fall really does make me feel powerful despite the limitations, its the best melee combat game for me.

[@nuclearscarab]

Beat Saber is definitely still a rhythm game. You are scored on timing, if you lack timing and miss a box you don't get any points. It's just that the timing aspect is super generous, at least unless you play extremely fast moving box custom maps. I would say Beat Saber is an equally rhythm and movement game, and that is a big part of why it's so engaging and fun for so many people.

[@RoadtoVR]

Of course it can be called a rhythm game! I'm just making the point here that most people don't realize there isn't a real timing component other than 'did you hit it or not', and that the scoring system encourages you to make certain motions. It's a great rhythm game, but the point is even if it had nothing to do with rhythm, instructed motion can make great VR games!

[@Errorz_]

Other than the title blatantly being clickbait, i very much enjoyed this video! good job.

[@stevenstemmler7573]

I hope you have plenty of ideas for these videos - I continue to enjoy them (although I find myself more frustrated by guided motion games, I do appreciate how there is a thought pattern behind the plan to let the user feel a particular emotion). I have been trying to think of the best ways to generate wonder and to have a place in my own design for a space in games where the player can go to relax and yet be productive in terms of the game. I kind of think of it as Captain Picard's ready room or in Metro games where you spend time cleaning and upgrading your guns. I once read a story about an artist who would find places in Fallout4VR where she would go to sketch. So this video helped me to try to figure out how to get there.

[@josselincol]

Interesting! Makes me remember Eye Toy fondly. The early instructed motion game!

[@Tommy-sx9kg]

Great video! This is a great design insight. I’ve been imagining for a while now a VR game that has an almost osu-like execution path for combat, where the accuracy of the motion determined the strength of the attack. Guiding the players motion also has the added bonus of bringing the player even deeper into immersion. I think back to HL:A’s Jeff level. The game requiring me to hold my hand to my mouth brought me deeper into that feeling of fear, simply because the game design nudged me to engaging with the game in a more fulfilling way.

[@RoadtoVR]

💯💯💯

[@beardordie5308]

Intentionally deciding on interaction types that nudge/force the user experience towards a desired Feeling is a good design approach. 👍 😎

[@josselincol]

Miyamoto : I want the user to feel… Italian 🤌

[@janred94]

"How close you cut to the center of a block" I think it was based on equal sized half's, you could cut diagonally through it as long as both half's are the same size it will reward maximum points. Definitely a rhythm game to me tho... 😅

[@ilikestuff8218]

Until You Fall isn't all instructed motion tho, nothing stops you from breaking the enemy guard before they finish a combo, especially if you have two handed weapons. and even after you break the guard, it's not as strict as beat saber, even if you slash the wrong way, it still registers if you're fast enough, you can't do that in beat saber or any rhythm game. I don't understand why people think Until You Fall is the same as Beat Saber.

[@ilikestuff8218]

Also you can interrupt enemy combos as well with some skills so there is a lot of freedom that people don't see just because they see a "slash here". this game has a lot of things that they don't teach.

[@ilikestuff8218]

This reminds me of Daemon X Machina, where people only see the surface even though you can really do way more.

[@dragonmarble7562]

Another great episode. I see many people in the comments debating the title of the video rather than discussing the content. Thoughtful videos are not for everyone. Just like some people prefer mindless sandbox games to meticulously designed ones.

[@djhindsight]

Great video. More content like this, please!

[@RoadtoVR]

More to come! Don’t miss the rest of the series linked in the description.

[@BE_Tboo74]

Wait till man finds time dependence

[@genricjohn]

I was just about to comment this lmao

[@zekiz774]

Time dependence isn’t really a feature and more of a result of how people play the game. If you move fast enough, time dependence doesn’t play a role anymore

[@BE_Tboo74]

🤓🤓🤓

[@bat-7076]

fire video

[@ellisbyrne359]

Dont like the obvious clickbait here for a proposition you clearly dont actually believe. Beat Saber is clearly about timing, the timing is just abstracted in how long the boxes take to get to you and your perception of that; most people dont care about scoring. The overall premise is great though. The most common instructed motion is Dodging, and Superhot was the first huge success with it. There is a bit of an awkwardness in games like Superhot and Pistol Whip that clearly instruct you to move but dont have any clearly communicated iconography to tell you how to 'succeed' in your motion. Having good iconography for instructed movement like BeatSaber and UYF, seems like its important.

[@mikeicon8488]

Beat Saber does have a timing based scoring system.. if you don't swing within the time that a block is within striking range, you miss it and do not get points. Just because the timing window for each block is relatively long compared to other rhythm games (can be set differently depending on preference) doesn't mean it doesn't have a timing based system. Disagree entirely with your point.

[@genricjohn]

so beat saber actually has a timing based score system called time dependence, it’s a unintended feature based solely off of the way that beat sabers is actually played. it’s kinda complicated but it is basically how much your note accuracy relies on timing your swing. the lower the TD, the higher the timing window for acc

[@cyphfrix1620]

until u fall definitly paid u to make this but u desguised it as a beatsaber type video to reach a larger audience, well done, good thinking, mastermind right here, but tbh beatsaber is a rhythm game no doubt ab it

[@Errorz_]

he defo wasn't paid by them to make this, what are you on ab?

[@cyphfrix1620]

@@Errorz_ he talked more ab until u fall then he did beatsaber, seemed like a paid ad to me

[@Errorz_]

​@@cyphfrix1620 well yeah, it's what he was literally comparing it to. The title is clickbait, beat saber isn't necessarily the main point of this video. plus, he literally has a sponsor in this video..

[@RoadtoVR]

We would absolutely 100% disclose if the video was sponsored by Until You Fall / Schell Games, the same way the sponsor segment is clearly disclosed. And as Errorz_ pointed out, the video is about Instructed Motion, not just Beat Saber. The point is that most people think about VR rhythm games when it comes to Instructed Motion, but it's just as useful for VR design when music/rhythm isn't involved.

[@R0ndras]

30 seconds into the video. "rhythm games are based on timing" No they arent. There's different approaches to the design of rhythm games, some do value timing, a lot of others dont. You cannot come in and talk about videogame design when the principal idea you're basing this one is completely wrong. And even if you took into account the possibility of everything being based on timing and somehow Beat Saber isnt... well it still is based on timing, you need to hit the blocks,there's a timing for that, even if it wasnt scored(wich is) that wouldnt suddenly not make it a rhythm game. Then also if you take into account the nature of how the gameplay works in Beat Saber, still is a game in this genre because that genre has a ton of variety,features and ways of playing: dance games, fighting games, plastic instruments, piano, guitar, vocals,etc Your video makes literally no sense at all.

[@dragonmarble7562]

People, if you are debating with the author whether Beat Saber is a rhythm game, you have completely missed the point of this video.

[@BigSunn0]

oof, with how they actually manage to make beautiful people look that goofy with that vr smello vision gear on....I don't understand why people are pursuing stuff like that when its hard enough to get people to put on the base headset. how are you gnna convince then that treadmills and vests and stuff is normal?? if anything people who see this stuff get turned off to VR and its wild that no one else is as embarrassed by it as I am. Or if they are they're not as vocal about it.

[@Ownko]

It happens with everything, though, it just takes time to be more socially accepted. Like people were telling others looked ridiculous stomping on the ground maniacally in Dance Dance Revolution or Pump-it Up arcade machines, strumming plastic guitars with Rock Band or Guitar Hero. It even goes way back when video games were new, people making fun of "dem kids looking like zombies glued to their TV playing Nintendo games, rotting their brains". Life is too short to be too self-conscious about looking dumb/ridiculous, what matters is having fun.

[@coltynstone-lamontagne]

All new tech looks stranger at first. People used to make fun others with large phones. Now you have a hard time buying a good small phone

[@nzavon]

Rubbish