DOES SHOTOKAN SUCK?!!!! an expert analysis

[@ChristopherMonti]

There is an expression in Japan - “There is no better karate than good Shotokan, and there is no worse karate than bad Shotokan.”

[@ccutehoney]

So true! I have seen so much bad shotokan in the US it’s so sad 😢 I come from a long karate family from Peru.

[@BratislavMetulski]

Most people dont understand how much damage real shotokan karate can do. Why? They only know McDojo trash. They only know sport Karate and they only know watered down nonsense for people that dont want to train hard. Dont blame the style, blame the student.

[@crisalcantara7671]

@@BratislavMetulski i blame the usa senseis who made into what is is today with the olynpyc clowns , like who strted that olympic garbage .

[@JoseGabrielMattaGonzales]

@@BratislavMetulski ¡de qué hablas? ¿quien es most people? Osea yo he entrando shorin ryu por 10 años. Una vez me fui a Andahuaylas y estuve en un dojo de shotokan 1 mes allá. Era como el portugués y el español. Todo lo que yo hacía estaba mal (shoryn ryu) pero cuando lo hacía funcionaba. Mi cabeza se hacía lío.

[@aurelienhenryobama5434]

I am a 4th degree black belt in Karate shotokan from Cameroon, Africa. I cross trained a lot in different styles from Sambo wrestling, kickboxing, Taekwondo, Kungfu, etc. When I teach my students I show them different approach in fighting be it for the street or competition. With the popularity of MMA, the shotokanist can't ignore presence of other styles. He has to adapt and use well principles of the style to survive a fight.

[@radurobert1]

and all MMA and UFC guys train boxing, grapling and kickboxing and they don't care about shotokan at all because they know it's a time waste

[@zenmartialartist701]

@@radurobert1 it's not, Shotokan has plenty of amazing techniques that add to your fighting game tremendously. Just look up karate boxing

[@radurobert1]

@@zenmartialartist701 I've seen a lot of Karate vs Boxing matches and the boxing guys simply destroy all the karate guys . Even is the boxer wears gloves and the karate guy works with his fists the karate guy can't even manage to touch the boxer with his hands and it's quite amazing how fast the boxer ko the karate guy

[@edgar22452]

​@@radurobert1Stfu. U know nothing about shotokan. Shotokan is a very effective martial art.

[@burntrim]

@@radurobert1Do me favour! You've seen a lot of karate vs boxing matches? How many? And where?

[@deddymansyur2354]

I have been training teaching Shotokan for over 60 years and I find your Shotokan analysis very educative and brilliant. Agree 1000%. Oss!

[@darrenm2152]

I have been a Shotokan Practitioner for over 50 years. Starting first with the JKA and then to the ITKF and JKS still following the JKA ways. I agree with this video and assessment a thousand percent! Not every Shotokan Dojo is the same and not every instructor is the same and as you said some are terrible. The clips of modern day competition (there is still the other or "older" style which is far superior IMO) has stemmed from trying to get into the Olympics, they are fast but have lost there way many years ago. Thank you for the first positive review of traditional shotokan karate that I have seen not from a practitioners point of view. Another problem that gives Karate a bad rap is that many times people do not train how they should and they do not compliment karate with another system or systems. When I grew up and met many of the traditionalists in your footage, they all came from other disciplines that complimented their karate; Judo, Kendo and more, helped form who they are as a Martial Artist.

[@radurobert1]

You wasted 50 years with this style. Why did I say that ?. Because a talented boxer that trained just 1 year can beat any talented Shotokan Practitioner with 20 years of experience . Shotokan is more of a business in which the 10 dan benefit the most . It's a business that suck money from practitioners pockets .The system is designed to indoctrinate the practitioner into believing that more dan black belts are essential for his life achievements especially if he open his own dojo which is understandable because he will take peoples money . The system is just a sport and is not military special combat so it won't work in a life death situation .

[@fredatlas4396]

@@radurobert1 I saw a video of Hidetaka Nishiyama fighting with a boxer and the boxer never managed to land any punches on him, but he landed many techniques, obviously with control so as not to hurt the boxer. This is a Budo art, it's not about doing harm to other people, but I'm sure accomplished practitioners can defend themselves if necessary. Kanazawa sensei said when he was teaching in Hawai many yrs ago he had people wanting to fight with him, but he tryed to avoid fights. He said if people get involved in these fights someone may get seriously hurt or even killed basically. Apparently in Japan many yrs ago a, sumo wrestler wouldn't take no for an answer & attacked kanazawa. He punched the wrestler once in the floating ribs with single knuckle punch, and the wrestler went down, end of fight

[@radurobert1]

@@fredatlas4396 Even Bruce Lee acknowledged boxing as something every serious martial artist should learn. Hidetaka fighting with WHAT boxer ? an elite pro one ?. Can you point me the video ?. Kanazawa sensei beating a sumo wrestler 🤣?.Sumo wrestlers are FAT jokes compared to ground wrestlers .Such stories are very fake in the sense that senseis either fight amateurs or they fight only when they feel the opponent is stupid . A ground elite wrestler or elite boxer can't be punched in the ribs or the head with the knuckles by a karate practitioner 🤣. There is a very strong logic behind this argument .Also even if the 10 dan sensei manages to hit the boxer his body is very conditioned to take blows and deflect the impact . What I mean is that the sensei won't be able to hit with 100% force because his punching power will be deflected by some extent because of the head body movement . For example all I need is to move backward when the sensei hits and his force will be reduced . No matter what sensei is the boxer will hit him . Many want to believe that a 10 dan sensei is some kind of super human when in reality an elite boxer would knock him down . There is a good reason those 10 dan sensei don't enter a boxing ring or to accept fights with good boxers ,.

[@itisyourdestiny8793]

I fought a boxer. Easy. Kick down the middle before he was in range then an ashi-barai foot-sweep and he was on the floor. Obviously don’t stand in the pocket and trae hands with the guy! Boxing has two big advantages: gloves to protect your hands and so allow hooks and a limited, predictable context (the ring) and rule-set. Neither available in the street.

[@turbopowergt]

Great run down on Shotokan. In the 80s I studied TKD while friends studied Shotokan. Shotokan then was very heavy, and they honed their basics with the the thought of “one punch, one kill” meaning they might wait for the moment to deliver a powerful reverse punch, front kick, or ridge hand that would end the fight. So I would often get cocky, dance a lot, shoot kicks that would get blocked hard; and then the perfectly timed reverse punch to the solar plexus would hit me. My judo instructor was stationed in Japan for awhile at the Kodokan, but also earned his black belt in Shotokan while there. I learned a lot about fighting from him. I never really thought about how lucky I was growing up a military brat when it came to the people I could learn and spar from.

[@lucasrinaldi9909]

In Brazil there is a well-known Shotokan sensei who has the best insights into Karate I have ever seen. His interpretations of traditional Karate techniques (uke waza) that everyone thinks are blocks, but which he defends are grappling techniques, are very interesting. His name is Vinicio Antony. He even coached Lyoto and Victor Belfort. Unfortunately its content is almost entirely in Portuguese.

[@wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667]

I noticed the "blocks" in karate look a lot more like wrestling techniques

[@MrBeiragua]

He is not wrong, but it's not really visible in the shotokan kata. To be able to see the more or less original techniques, you need to watch Shorin Ryu kata, and even there the kata are a bit abstract. The main point of the kata techniques is that your opponent is pretty close to you, maybe even holding you. In that distance, most katas make a lot of sense. The original Okinawan katas have more to do with Sumo than with a simple fist fight.

[@lucasrinaldi9909]

@@MrBeiragua Exactly.

[@Vinnay94]

Yeah, Ramsay Dewey made a video on the Shotokan techniques.

[@KaratePath]

That Sensei is right tho. What he is talking about is known as Uru Bunkai. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2rOhGekhL2Deas&ab_channel=JesseEnkamp

[@dbuck1964]

Really enjoyed your break down and find it very adequate in terms of explaining Shotokan as it seems to be today. However, I would emphasize the difference that your father pointed out, and that is there is a huge, huge difference both in the way Shotokan Karate used to be taught, trained, and the competitions as well. At some point in the 1950s the organization known as the JKA took the Karate that had been brought to Japan by Gichin Funakoshi and tweaked it with the latest and greatest academic understandings of human physiological functioning known to man at that time. The idea was to create a Karate that utilized the optimal speed, power, and effectiveness that the human body was capable of generating. Once they had done this their secondary goal was to take this karate and spread it as widely around the world as possible, which they did by creating a cadre of some of the greatest karate instructors the world has ever seen. All of these men were graduates of what was called the JKA instructor school, the graduation from being at least as difficult as graduation from the best universities around the world. At a minimum of three years and eight hours a day (in most cases much longer), what these men went through was nothing short of grueling and brutal. Not all of the training was physical either. Participants of this course were required to attend academic classes regarding their karate knowledge that required wearing of hard shoes, slacks, button-down shirt and a tie! Once the Japanese had solidified their presence around the world, these types of training academies occasionally ran in other countries, like the US, the UK, and others. I had the distinct benefit of training under one of the US schools graduates, Sensei Ray Dalke. I have over 30 years training in martial arts, most of it in Shotokan, and I have never met such a dynamic, inspiring and capable human individual as he. It’s not that he was some kind of a magical human being, although he did have a certain kind of charisma, it’s a testament to the quality of training that the JKA at least used to produce in their ranks, unfortunately something we probably won’t see much of in the future. By today’s standards in most any sport, old-school Shotokan training was definitely brutal, but it created some of the most determined, committed, and toughest men and women you are likely to find anywhere. Prior to the 1980s the vast majority of special forces around the world got their martial arts training from one place, and that was JKA Shotokan Karate. One final difference (and it’s a big one), in the older competitions there were two different kinds of kumite matches. The first would be easily recognizable, and it was called Sanbon, which meant three point match. The other was the one that separated the men from the boys, and it was called Ippon, meaning one point match. Sanbon matches were very much like the fighting we have today except that the contact was stronger (and we didn’t wear pads), your techniques had to be cleaner and you had to be much more grounded for your techniques to qualify. Ippon fighting however was quite different. You didn’t have a potential for 6 half points in order to score a win, you had 2 half points at best. The ideal for this form of karate is to score a clean full point and win the match in a single clean stroke. However, this required everything about your technique to be absolutely perfect, including having absolutely full power. Needless to say, if somebody screwed up on their distance by half an inch what happened was typically a complete knockout, which would literally not result in disqualification, unless it appeared to be malicious. God how I miss the good old days.

[@inside_fighting]

Thank you for sharing such amazing insight. I learned a lot reading it 🙏🏼

[@WinterSon91]

Great read, thank you! My instructor Katsumata Yutaka also graduated from the JKA instructor course. He's now around 70 years old, so I know one day he won't be teaching me. Unfortunately, whoever takes his place won't have the same level of understanding of karate.

[@wallyllaw]

Great post thanks! As a background, I have been practising JKA Shotokan karate now for 5 years several hours per week and I'll hopefully get my 1st dan within 2 years. In JKA the 1st black belt means that you know the basics and are serious about your training. Now, I consider JKA to be in so many ways "old school shotokan". In shotokan competitions, it's still "ippon shobu" rules except eg. All Japan Championship final match that's sanbon shobu. Pretty sure they have more control than back in the day, so less brain damage, but still they don't use any protection (well,maybe mouth guard and groin cup) unless it's women's kumite where they use those ridiculous "gloves" that just barely protects the skin of your knuckles.

[@EZBlast]

From a more street perspective - learning Shotokan gave me a broader range of weapons - true, but what it really taught me was bridging the gap safely, especially vs more than one opponent, timing references, and smooth evasion when necessary - and the discipline/concentration values learned will always be useful in life in general.

[@TBButtSmoothy]

so it boils down to closing the gap? because I wouldn't train years for learning just that, then what?

[@Brandnewshoes]

There's a lot of Shotokan fighters in Karate Combat. I'd be super interested to see a video about views on KC. I'll always have a soft spot for Shotokan because it was my very first martial art, and my first introduction into combat sports.

[@inside_fighting]

I plan on doing a video on Karate Combat soon! It's a nice evolution of karate for people who want to test themselves differently.

[@dingo8babym20]

Fair analysis, though of course I have a different understanding. I train old school Shotokan. I'm 71. The purpose, in tournament kumite, is the application of perfect technique, with perfect timing. the purpose is NOT to go 10 - 3 minute rounds. We apply a full power technique to a proper target. We do NOT 'pull back', or 'pull our punches'. We DO adjust our distance so that our full power strike or kick comes within 1 inch of the target. Are they powerful techniques? There are lots of videos of JKA type matches where that 1 inch disappears. The result is a incapacitating knock-out. I've been on the receiving end a couple of times, so I will attest to that. I agree that there is a lot of bullshit karate out there. I acknowledge that many of those practitioners may be quite fit from, and devoted to their style. Having said that, there are a few I think are useless. Many of the clips you show are of WKF. WKF is pretty much, exactly what the founders of karate DIDN'T want. WKF shotokan was designed for the Olympics, and they wanted it to look really different than judo, and wrestling. the result is silly rules regarding throws, that create a ridiculous little dance. Points are awarded for, practically, merely touching a target area with a glove, regardless of the power of the strike. It's crap. I don't think much of Kyokushin either. So, you're telling me that y'all are gonna stand there and pound each other in the gut with rapid-fire, short punches, but not ONCE go jodan??Talk about unrealistic. The kicks are beautiful, but seriously, you gonna leave your feet on purpose, when the chips are down? i have criticisms of Tae Kwon Do for similar reasons: try a spinning back kick in a dark alley, or on an icy street. Shotokan does NOT have a ground game. Some situations call for less than 5-alarm kill-or-be-killed response. I've often thought that BJJ or even Aikido would be a nice compliment to my 'inventory', for those cases. But I still have much to learn from Shotokan, and not a lot of time left. Karate teaches defenses against multiple attackers, which Aikido and BJJ don't. Properly understood, kata teaches unique movements, and combinations of techniques that - any 2 or 3 strung together - can be effective against multiple attackers. It takes YEARS to become powerful, that way. The goals of fighting systems point the way to how you train: 'Seek perfection of character, be faithful, endeavor, respect others, refrain from violent behavior'. I train hard, and as often as I can. I stay out of people's shit, and consciously rein in my male ego. That has kept me out of scrapes - ok, there were 2(!) To the author's point about longevity : I will be training, including dojo kumite - in which we DON'T stop when we land a technique - til i'm 90( that's the plan anyway). My - maybe - Son in law has his 4th stripe in BJJ. SO many injuries. So fking sad. Shoulder, knees. You name it. He most assuredly WON'T be training when he;s 90. That's my rant. I enjoyed the video and your perspective. Peace.

[@frankprit3320]

this could make a comeback.

[@TBButtSmoothy]

shotokan used to lol nowdays, its hilarious the tradeoff for "speed" weak, no force at all.

[@HardHardMaster]

So you don't understand kyokushin. K.

[@dingo8babym20]

prints brilliant analysis

[@hfmarisco]

Hello sir, great comment. It got me thinking about my own decisions as a martial artist. I used to practice Goju Ryu Karate when I was younger, got up to 1st dan and went to many competitions, until I had to move out due to college. Since then, I've been in and out of different BJJ schools, and though I'm merely a 4-stripes blue belt, I've accumulated my fair share of injuries, to the point that it is starting to interfere in my job and reduce my overall quality of life. I'm 29 years old by the way, and I do not see myself actively training and fighting past the age of 60 if things keep up like this.

[@seanoronain3461]

Solid video! I started Shotokan back in October last year and recognise everything you discussed. The dojo I’m training with is fantastic. To be honest- it’s the people that keep me coming back. Very experienced practitioners and very welcoming to newbies joining who have no experience in martial arts. It’s definitely a sport I could see myself doing for the rest of my life!

[@inside_fighting]

So glad to hear you found a home in martial arts. My philosophy lately is that i want longevity in my training. I don’t even care what system.

[@UoAProductions]

I have been a shotokan practitioner for about 28 years (most of my life) going for my 3rd dan soon, i took a lot of time off and such in my 20s and just wasnt fussed about grading. Really enjoyed the video. From the title my 1st reaction was "here we go again" but clicked anyway cos i have seen your other vids and they have always been good. Really good video, well balanced and informative. I 100% agree with the majority of what you said mate. Keep up the good work :)

[@joee3242]

I've seen a 66 year old shotokan guy moving fast and a 72 year old brown belt in shotokan. Agreed you can definitely be a older shotokan practitioner. Good video.

[@inside_fighting]

My pop still looks good when he punches 💪🏼

[@valentinloghin4004]

The main style of Japan Military is Shotokan , you can find videos on youtube .

[@georgefusco3873]

I really enjoyed your views on Shotokan Karate! I’ve been practicing Shotokan for 42 years. I’ve loved kata and seen the value of doing kata, practicing and teaching the bunkai. Thank you for your views and insight on an art that I feel doesn’t get enough recognition. Where I live there are a lot of Tae Kwon Do and Kempis schools. I was the only Shotokan Studio in the area!

[@inside_fighting]

Very glad you watched it 🙏🏼 shotokan is a great system

[@elindioedwards7041]

Wow. Tremendous analysis. Your channel is definitely upper tier. I would always advocate for Karate, TKD stylists to at some point explore and train in western boxing for a year . The head movement and coverage is just superior. I would even say the same for Muay Thai fighters as well. Your father sounds like a beast by the way.

[@inside_fighting]

Thanks so much. Yea he’s a big inspiration for me. He saves my life tbh. I agree about western boxing. It is by far the best style in the world at the traits you described. Nothing comes close.

[@robertpenduck8455]

I trained in shotokan in the 80s and karate was very different it was brutal and the fitness was very intense press ups were always on your knuckles and having to roll the knuckles to increase the bone density. The abdominal training was also involving heavy contact striking we when sparing were told the diffence between full contact and karate sparing was 1 inch more contact.

[@USGrant-rr2by]

Going through an hour of the stances (front,horse, back), moving up and down the length of the room (in our case about 60-70 feet) with a person (even the females) of YOUR SAME HEIGHT/ WEIGHT (me at the time, 6ft, 185lbs) ON YOUR SHOULDERS the whole time!!! Excruciating and brutal. Many broken bones. Ohio State Karate (Shotokan) Club mid-late 80s. Senior instructor: Sensei Greer Golden at the time.

[@TopG20073]

I feel sad for myself that I am not Able to rely on my sensei because he always teaches kata and competitive karate.

[@johnp8587]

You train the way I did in the 90's.

[@markmessi9020]

Great video! To be honest, full contact fixed karate's problem a long time ago. I come from American style kickboxing and even though the ruleset has fallen out of style, we train MMA in my gym as well so we mix full contact karate with Muay Thai, Wrestling and BJJ. The American kickboxing style in my opinion is one of the best bases to come into MMA with but I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I want to compete someday soon. Wish me luck 🤞

[@inside_fighting]

You will kick butt 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼 glad to hear you are resting yourself.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Why do you say that? What does American Kickboxing give that Low Kick doesn't ? I am very curious because i asked myself the same question. I know that it has good boxing. But ever since Roufus lost ,it was considered obsolete. So,what are the unique benefits of Full Contact Kickboxing?

[@jamesjackson4558]

Great intellectual detailed breakdown. Shotokan Karate is a very good system of fighting. The problem is a lot of practioners not understanding the difference between real fighting application and Hollywood movie magic bullshanoodle. The blending of Shotokan, Wing Chung and Aikido work for me.

[@brucehuddler7518]

Thanks for comments, Agree 100%, started Shotokan 1970, it was taught along with Aikido, by Japanese. Very Old School different nothing watered down, Speed and power. Full contact I never saw a glove or pad then. Now 68, Shotokan, Aikido, Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do. Enjoy your ride folks.

[@lpark876]

I just wanted say thank you, your videos help me more than you know. Not just with my self defense but my mental health. Keep doing what you're doing it helps people. You're fan Louis.

[@inside_fighting]

Thank you Louis! I also go through stuff with my mental health and it can be very hard. You aren’t alone ever 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼

[@hotpopcorncake]

No wonder a Kung fu practitioner back in the day called me a "KKK guy" when I was practicing Kyokushin, even though I knew kung fu also.

[@inside_fighting]

😅😅😅

[@isaiahkenny3544]

Great points I been doing shotokan for about 5 years now I was fortunate to learn from a teacher who was showing me the self defense aspect of it

[@jojitsu5620]

Bro I think you are on spot in the way you see the arts. 🙏.

[@Sabertooth411]

Incredible video. I practice Shotokan for 17 years now. I couldn't agree more! Thank you!

[@simonrcarson]

Great video, and 100% right about Shotokan. I've been training in Shotokan since the 1970s, and competed in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It's very different today. As you say, the best Shotokan practitioners are very good indeed, but there is a lot of very poor Shotokan, I think. At my age - in my sixties now - the sort of competition I took part in 40+ years ago would not be a good idea for me, but I can still train and enjoy my art. I think it is important to have a complete understanding of why you are training - is it for sport karate, full contact, self defence, aesthetic and cultural reasons, health and social benefits? - and choose your art(s) and train accordingly.

[@joshuajohnson4396]

It has so much power in the punches while looking like the body's going backwards that it amazes me. It is hard to defend against if not trained for specifically. I love your videos. Thanks

[@inside_fighting]

They practice the basics so much that they can do it better than most.

[@jazzquire]

been following you for a while now, but nuanced analysis like this is why I think you're the best martial arts channel on KZbin (and I've seen a bunch). hoping your subscribers numbers blow up in no time. looking forward to more content.

[@inside_fighting]

Really appreciate that! I hope so too 😅

[@lukeallen4398]

Shotokan is truly respected and respectable, by its diluted from its true form just like most arts imported from other countries. If you want the force go to the source. Loved this video 💖🇦🇺

[@elearis1]

Thank you for not being one of those who just talk down anyone who does more traditional forms.

[@inside_fighting]

I love traditional martial arts. No ego involved in any of this. Even though i have some critiques i also know some shotokan guys can kick my butt 🤣

[@mizukarate]

Kata also has therapeutic benefits too. So keep in mind this is why older people can do many forms of karate for life.

[@VTdarkangel]

This is a surprisingly balanced take on Shotokan. Usually, I see people who are absolute haters or closed minded apologists. I've been in the sport karate world. I can confirm that they're playing to the rules to the point that the original intent of kumite gets lost. It has devolved into playing a game of tag, but that doesn't mean there are skills that are learned that don't have an application. His description is pretty close to dead-on in that part. The ability to read, manage distance, move in quickly, capitalize on opportunities, and escape are very useful skills. The mistake many sport karate competitors make is they don't realize the box they've put themselves in by not looking at and understanding the effect of competition rules. Again, I'm impressed with the balanced nature of this analysis. Well done.

[@joee3242]

Once again big up to you shining light on Traditional Martial Arts. I love traditional martial arts. But will be the first to admit how hard it is for a traditional martial artist to defend against a muay thai fighter. Im also am a big admirer of muay thai. If a traditional martial artist would also learn muay thai they would be a very well rounded martial artist as far as stand up goes plain and simple

[@inside_fighting]

Absolutely!!! But shotokan in itself is a completely are when taught properly as well i think. It all comes down to the school. If i were to mix any system with shotokan it would be judo.

[@joee3242]

@@inside_fighting That would be a great combination. One art that has less practitioners then Kyokushin & BJJ that a lot of ppl Sleep on is Hapkido. It's a hybrid & Vicious to the point Where a lot of instructors won't teach it to anybody under 14years old. At least traditional instructors. Ppl get it confused with Akido but it's so much more. Chk out the history: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmfEc6uJlKl2fpo

[@joee3242]

Hapkido A little bit on how it's different then Akido: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4LZppqCgM6Sb5Y

[@nortromar]

My first martial art that i have practiced was Shotokan Karate. Fortunately that happened 21 years ago and I can say that today's Shotokan is a lot softer....but I agree with the fact that it taught me to get in and out of the range very effectively and also it has helped me develop some really good striking forms - but I also have to add that I am from Eastern Europe and our trainers used to be really tough with us :)))). And great video by the way !!!

[@inside_fighting]

Eastern Europeans are tougher at everything

[@psychedashell]

BJJ numbers are limited by trendy costs. I live in Australia and Shotokan, Kyokushin and TKD will set you back about $50 - $80 a month, BJJ starts out at $80 a month and goes up from there. People simply can’t afford it.

[@PhilipAJones]

$80 a month? That actually sounds reasonable. Here in California, USA it's common to start at $200!

[@rcarfang2]

@@PhilipAJones for how many lessons? my Karate is $200 a month and the adult classes are 9 times a week.

[@ruprectgreatrex9153]

your numbers are light on, in Melb., anyway. Expect $150+/month for BJJ. Shotokan about $100+/month

[@psychedashell]

@@ruprectgreatrex9153 Probably light for any capital city truth be told.

[@hb9145]

Muay Thai costs just 50 Euros here in Norway a month (3 times a week).

[@Braindazzled]

I've never done Shotokan, but my experience generally, Kata is more useful for experienced martial artists, since they can both visualize the application and also have experience of the technique in actual combat. As I get to be an older martial artists, I see the sloppiness from too much free sparring and not enough form and partner exercise.

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

Tag karate will not beat a boxer, but good bunkai can , in my opinion. Based on 20 years of goju karate.

[@jaredhonegger9918]

@@rodgerhempfing2921 prime lyoto Machida

[@radurobert1]

@@rodgerhempfing2921 a boxer is a fighting machine . There is 0 chance for a karate or goju karate guy to beat a boxer especially hand to hand . Hand to hand the boxer will absolutely demolish any karate guy

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

@@radurobert1 have you seen a 3rd dan goju black belt in action? Not in a tag competion but in a dojo sparring session? The whole body is a target, not just above the belt. Knee joints and hamstrings are a favourite target.

[@radurobert1]

@@rodgerhempfing2921 a good boxer is build on instinct and reflexes so the goju black belt will have a small chance only if the boxer is more passive and he don't expect to be played nasty . If the boxer is figuring out that he's dealing with a karate guy with no rules he will start jumping in all directions and will attack the karate guy with hammer fists . The karate guy would get clipped after the first punches. I don't care what dan level is the goju black belt. The boxer is hitting much much harder and the boxing is build to KO .

[@davidenglund4273]

Well said. I'd say this actually applies to all of the traditional Karate styles. I'm in Wado Ryu and feel the same way and share your views here.

[@Ienori]

Regarding Conor McGregor, he does have a good amount of karate influence in his fighting style due to the fact that one of his primary training partners is Gunnar Nelson who's got Goju Ryu background.

[@inside_fighting]

Makes a lot of sense

[@fortnitefred1351]

Stephen Thompson the wonder boy is another karate based fighter

[@Hayyothhakodesh]

My shotokan dojo has been open since the 70s my instructor when i studied many years ago is a 9th dan from japan. Hes actually very famous. And we never used pads. I stopped training in this 12 yrs ago. But he still teaches today.

[@Osinivos4]

Love the old school Shotokan this is the type of art I would of been drawn to as you learn the most through failure and sparring is needed for that. Have to thank my coach when I was a kid cause man he kicked my ass so much I looked good getting into a ring lol .

[@inside_fighting]

You appreciate the woopings later in life 🤣

[@seablackh4wk145]

I've seen your first 2 videos and they were all interesting take with fair points, something that i just rarely see on youtube And this one is on point with its strengths and weaknesses as i actively train shotokan for 2 year now (done a bit as a kid), also did MT for a few weeks and mixing them both complements my close and long range striking very well

[@inside_fighting]

Thank you for watching the breakdowns. If i found the right school I’d gladly train shotokan. I think it has a lot to offer. I suppose it also depends on the kind of fighter you are.

[@seablackh4wk145]

@@inside_fighting and one more, my sensei being traditional-ish guy told us to keep our guards up when punching, chambering back to the hip is considered a no go. He teaches us more old school JKA way of striking in kumite while ironically our dojo is associated with sports-ish federation, but before the pandemic i think it was associated with traditional federation instead (it's an university dojo so somewhat understandable, there was also kyokushin but sadly inactive rn)

[@cpeplinski]

Very thorough and fair video. Well done. I came up in the tail end of the Nishiyama era as the JKA was fragmenting. I would say I had the honor of more of that old school training and your comparison to modern shotokan is accurate. The old tournaments were closer to Kyokushin than the tappy tap fighting today. I used to joke with people that as soon as the red and blue belts and matching first covers came out, it was the end of shotokan as a practical martial art and the beginning of a new sport.

[@franciscogonzalezramirez5033]

Finally this video came out. I think you gave a very fair overview of shotokan karate. I think I can say a couple of things as a long time shotokan practitioner to add to what you just said. Apart from stepping in and out, shotokan karate is very good at snipping. The precision you can develop surprises even serious figters. All all basic kumite is meant to delevop from ground up this timing and suppleness with your hits. Karate shotokan is supposed to strive for ikken hissastu (one hit, one person down) and it really does work if you train it with that idea. This leads me to my next observation, the chambering from the hip and the whole thing with keeping the hands low (low for a fighting-sports standard) low is meant to not obstruct your own peripheral vision. Ideally (though I don't think that's optimal ) a karateka doesn't need to make a shell out of his guard like a MT figter or a boxer, because karate is supposed to be practiced bare handed, and originally for self defense. I'd say that idea of ikken hissastu is prevalent in karate way of training, if you failed to snipe down your opponent with one clean hit, then you failed in your training, and the reality is that karate doesn't prepare you for that situation, which really translates into "if you do not develop and hone the skills required for ikken hissastu, you are basically pretty much useless". It's like an all or nothing gamble in my view. So yeah, if you want to use karate for fighting sports, you better cross-train; if you're all about self-defense, you better train it seriously and yes, it can be really efficient (real-life altercations do not resemble a box match where you're trading strikes for 5+ minutes), but if you just do it as a hobby at your corner school, don't even bother trying to use it to defend yourself, unless you're fighting a drunken 10-year old boy or something. I hope my comment added some useful insight.

[@inside_fighting]

Very much so. I agree with all of it. I also forgot to mention shotokan ability to enter in to a trip which is something shotokan guys do really well

[@franciscogonzalezramirez5033]

@@inside_fighting Oh! Totally true. They can send you up flying without you even realizing what happened. I think shotokan gives a very specific and useful set of skills that are really good for fighting, but it leaves many aspects of fighting uncovered; not that the original karate didn't address those aspects; shotokan became hyperspecialized in its own thing, and that's why it can also be trained as a path for self-perfection for life, which is something that combat sports do not really offer, and it's very valuable (I'd risk say even more valuable than knowing how to fight in a ring or a cage). That said, you should take a look at KarateCulture channel here on KZbin. I like how they approach traditional karate. Too bad they seem to be out of business due to the pandemic. Respect to you, sir, Osu!

[@PhilipAJones]

My base style I started with (although I switched to American Kenpo when I moved). I look forward to joining my school's Shotokan Club when my next semester starts. It's actually going to be where I started training. 😄 I'll be sure to train with "distancing" in mind even when doing kihon and kata. Thanks again for another amazing video. OSU!

[@inside_fighting]

Keep me posted on your training

[@PhilipAJones]

@@inside_fighting 100%. Keep posting your vids.

[@RichhardRemo]

You are absolutely right. I'm a 64 old German. I've been practice Shotokan- Karate for 22 years. Learning under old Sensei like Kase, Ochi, Shirai, Tanaka. I had to Stop in 2003. Already in this time Shotokan- was totaly perverted by Show, theatralic Dancing. Me myself i was desapointed. And i am until today. Thank you for speaking the truth.

[@patriotparty6795]

Thank you for making this video. My experience is that the classical mindset of Shotokan is "not to end up on the ground". We know better now, that you must be prepared if you end up on the ground. Shotokan is a rigid style and their blocks are practiced to be strikes as well. As one Japanese Shotokan instructor told me "One strike, end of fight". He was a small man, but the power of his strikes put fear and awe into all his students. I have respect for the classical Shotokan practitioner, but to be street effective it must incorporate new techniques. One exception - if you practice Shotokan and your are lightning quick and accurate you are deadly. But to get to that level takes a very long time.

[@Supermomo2007]

so is goju ryu karate better for fighting?

[@patriotparty6795]

@@Supermomo2007 The Shotokan instructor I wrote about actually studied Goju Ryu first. He thought it wasn't as powerful as Shotokan. I think he liked the very direct style of Shotokan and didn't want to use as many circular motions as Goju Ryu. I would say that each are good and that a person needs to find what is most comfortable for them.

[@kevstew32]

I was a brown and white belt at the Liverpool Red Triangle under Sensei's Andy Sherry and Frank Brennan. Franks brother Jimmy and Terry O Neill used to come quite regularly too. Shotokan Karate was my gateway into martial arts.

[@kapiatgatas]

My classmate was training karate since grade school. Every day before breakfast he has to punch and kick 200 times a piece of 4x4 lumber wrap with burlap and rope built by his father. In high school his knuckles are flat and callused. I still defeated him multiple times. Using Filipino kickboxing (not the makeup word "Eskrima") and street smarts. I on the other don't punch bags everyday but spars every day in a local YMCA boxing club and street fights often enough. If I got punch or cut by a knife, I felt it and react on it. That's very important it gives you a reality check.

[@brucegatlin1258]

i had and old schoolteacher for Shotokan Karate back in the late eighties and early nineties i completely understand what your dad is saying because that's the way i trained the old school way. Then the ufc hit and away we went, it certainly doesn't look that way today so i trained in multiple arts after that. but i agree with your dad 100% now after training everything i agree it's definitely it lost out to what's popular you make quality videos keep up the good work .I'm 61 years old and after a few surgeries I'm not training bjj anymore but i can still move on my feet .

[@inside_fighting]

Thank you for watching. Glad to hear you got something positive out of this one. 🙏🏼 i wish i could go back in time and see my dads old school training

[@salvatoreplacidoplumari3840]

0:52....oh, yes!! I remeber to have seen this scene in which Sensei Ikemiyagi accidentally broke the makiwara.

[@jamesobrien2250]

totally agree on the distancing, and the kata and kihon. I did Shotokan for a long long time and then tried other things, the approach to kata and kihon still pay off doing other things.

[@timlinator]

The biggest problem with Karate is point sparring. Sparring rules should be more like UFC. Kata is not the problem it has a lot of good techniques that you can train on your own. I will train solo with Kata for over an hour and break a good sweet while practicing combination of strikes, blocks, throws, grappling and take downs.

[@rpesik]

Nicely said. Thank you for sharing.

[@thebaneking4787]

I commented on a video about my martial arts resume. But I forgot Shotokan. But I did that as a kid. I never throw a high side kick. I did learn ankle stomps from it. And I love that. Damn you showed the Jim Carry bit lol. You said it got watered down from popularity. I absolutely agree but I feel that is happening with BJJ as well.

[@inside_fighting]

Definitely happened with BJJ too.

[@DavyB-p4u]

Its really interesting listening to people talk about "traditional" martial arts in comparison to Combat Sports, their thoughts change as they get older. I'm now in my late 40's having trained in various arts of various intensities (mostly Karate) since I was 13 and I've been on the same journey. In my teens and 20s I was all about contact, hard application, being physical, and I still do martial arts from a "practical" perspective. But I don't heal as quickly, and I train with guys in their 60s, 70s and 80s, we still train hard, but different! "Traditional" Martial Arts give you longevity that isn't available to combat sports as they took those elements out to make them "more effective". My question is, how effective was all that hard contact you endured in your youth, that has left you with bad knees, dodgy hips and tinnitus (if you are lucky) from being belted in the head! Experience is wasted on the young though, so we'll keep on our own journeys coming to the same conclusion we could have had from our forebears if we didn't know better! You only learn from the journey, so crack on everyone!

[@danskarate997]

Thank you for this video, i am a shotokan practitioner 2nd dan. I will say the biggest problem is that shotokan is far removed from its origins, self defence knowledge is something very few have. I am lucky as i had an old school sensei in the beginning, and he taught the old school way, but self-defense was fleeting. I now have had the chance to train with people in that speciality. Shotokan needs to embrace reality-based sparring, not just point fighting, and look at the self-defense contained within the kata. I consider myself lucky to have had a wide range of experiences. As a side note the old school master i started under had hand speed that was unearthly to watch. The power those guys could generate was immense. But shotokan needs to evolve and dig deeper. Overall, i have enjoyed my 12 year journey in karate and have tried many other arts over the years. All the best with your training, Osu.

[@Dankelheit]

I agree 100% with your assessment and I'm an ISKF blackbelt myself. There's a Channel called Chadi that is super in depth about Judo and there's a similar circumstances that come with the popularity and having to research deeper to understand the art

[@frankprit3320]

the great debate that's been ragging since the beginning of time. I think the best approach should be to study "ALL" the systems and apply what is useful for the circumstances you are in. martial arts are a life time journey.

[@inside_fighting]

I agree 100 percent. They all have something to offer

[@manuelgonzales2570]

Excellent video. Very well thought opinion. Thank you!

[@WinterSon91]

Using "expert analysis" in the video title set the bar pretty high, but you lived up to it. I agree with everything. I avoid competition because of what you said, but I still like to spar for training. I'm glad karate failed at the olympics because I want it to remain a martial art and not become a sport. Thanks for the video, I'll be watching more

[@silafuyang8675]

Most of the analysis confirms what I have seen. I have trained modern Shotokan a little after 15 years of practice of other martial arts, just to get an idea what it is like. I will not write about its cons, but its pros are very fast covering of distance in a line and also very fast withdrawing, also in a line; full side stance gives less targets to attack and makes strikes with the lead hand and leg much easier to do; body gets in together with the strike. In Shotokan, they also train a lot reading the opponent and countering his strikes. The lead hook kick in Shotokan is very good and very fast. Contrary to what you say, maybe because the guy I trained under was also well versed in Judo, he also taught how to get in fast, strike and establish a grip, control or clinch, which I like a lot. From a safe distance, get in with a strike and no matter if it is succesful or not, remain in a distance for grappling. Something that should be very usefull in MMA, for example. Unlike wrestlers who faint a strike to get in or get in after they have dodged a strike, in Shotokan they learn how to get in under the cover of a strike or multiple strikes. This reminds a lot of Muai Thai and Xingyi Quan. Another one of my teachers has old Shotokan style as a base and he moved to other martial arts. His knowledge about application of kata and body mechanics are remarkable, all these thanks to Shotokan. I am not much into karate, however, I respect Shotokan the most of all karate styles. I think it has the most to offer without taking into account the pure competition Shotokan, trained as a sport.

[@hermanderaeymaecker4134]

Luckily in my country (Belgium) it's easy to find good karate clubs, maybe since it's small. Almost all are related to the Japanese federations and trainers and trainees go to seminars of high level (Japanese or European) sensei. I think this is the case for most European countries. Our clubs are (mostly) not in it for the money either. I only pay about 125€ a year and that includes federation membership and insurance. As to age, we have a few members in their seventies practicing for near or over 50 years. Some even have knee and hip replacements. They can't do seiza anymore, but they will still kick someone across the room.

[@inside_fighting]

Wow that’s really amazing

[@fredkarat]

Oss..made in Belgium 😉

[@christopherreynos3469]

You're right on your assessment. I'm a nadan Black belt from Trinidad and Tobago alot of practitioners Chambers their hand back to their hips which I see make no sense. However the philosophy one hit one kill.

[@kennethbedwell4183]

Great stuff I started shotokan karate in 1991 after getting purple belt I left to do other arts such kickboxing, jujitsu, aikido and Kali, I eventually went back to shotokan karate and at 58yrs I can still train another point I will make was in my 1st shotokan club there was no sparring basically kata and learning techniques in the club I'm at now they do touch sparring which I think gives you some understanding of what works and what doesn't and having done kickboxing when I do spar with others I automatically go into more of a boxing stance and guard and notice how open my training partners guards are and leaves them open to a punch in the face

[@imgdispatcher6524]

shotokan is a victim of olympics.

[@jean4j_]

It was just on the Olympics once. In my opinion, sport karate (WKF) got shitty waaaaaaay before karate at the Olympics

[@emperorjustice]

I agree with the things said in this video. I think it needed to be said. Especially when you look at Karate Combat today. Karate has lost its original toughness if you ask me.

[@GeoffVanDamage]

Hi mate, I've been in martial arts a long time myself particularly karate and whilst I agree with the majority of your assessment, I just thought I'd point out some slight very minor mistakes and give some new info too! So karate rules have changed the sport particularly in it's bid to get into the Olympics but anyway, the fighting doesn't stop till the referee shouts (Yame) or it isn't meant too, plus the footage from modern tournaments are multistyle tournaments and not strictly shotokan... Also old school karate fighting is starting to make a come-back with a lot of the top point fighters agreeing to participate in professional full contact bouts under karate rules, you should check out *karate combat* and *wukf pro fights* but a pretty good piece though everything has it's pros and cons!

[@inside_fighting]

I like karate combat a lot.

[@alittlepuertoricanboy1993]

Never trained Shotokan, but I did study Goju ryu for six years. My perspective of karate in general is that there are a lot of effective and practical applications for fighting...IF one trains at it. Drill kata bunkai like you're working takedowns, and do a lot of sparring with gloves, headgear, and shin guards like in kickboxing, and there is no way that your karate won't be effective. Just my two cents. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@SrbendaNo1]

Shotokan Karate is not a sport. Its a way of life.

[@cjnance008]

That intro song is hilarious!! 😂

[@SmileFreestyle-hx2rc]

I was just talking with my MMA coach today who's about 8 or 9 years older than I am. He trained TKD and karate in the 80s. I was in the 90s. So they fought in the 70s and 80s. As he alluded to - things got softer in the 90s but I would say it was a process so compared to the 70s, the 90s were definitely not as real. But I had a Marine sensei from Panama who would train us without the A/C on sometimes so that it was over 100 degrees inside the dojo. And the tournaments in LA were a mixed bag of full force + "tag" which you see more of today. We would hit full force to the body but not allowed to hit the face. However they would let things slide occasionally back then. Saw a kid do a solid front kick to the other (high school kids) in the neck and nobody stopped the match. Saw adults rarely but occasionally getting taken away on stretchers. But - now we have Karate Combat. So...things are mixed again. Also - Andre Bertel will do some real damage.

[@Styxswimmer]

Martial arts are like a puzzle. There is no one best style. Each style is one small piece

[@eeroterry1074]

Some interesting points are made in this analysis of Shotokan Karate. I have history in Taekwondo and Shito Ryu. Shito Ryu is another Japanese style of karate that shares a lot of similarities with Shotokan. In sparring, the same rules apply. My Shihan said that each style of karate has different sides of it. Some styles are more sport/ competition, other are more self defense, and there are some that are more focused on internal development. I definitely enjoy seeing the footage of the old-school karate style. When I was taking karate late 80's, early 90's, I guess you could say I saw the transition. Most white and colored belts would compete in a tournament where you could only close to the face and supposed to tap the opponent's body. This is point sparring and the newer style of competition. However it was expected that the black belts would go full contact including the face. There were also always those competitors that regardless of their rank, would spar in a black belt fashion. The majority of karateka that I knew were good at raising their skill and lowering it to match the person they were facing. If you were sparring with someone that was not quite at your level, you were expected to adjust accordingly unless you were competing in a tournament.

[@wallyllaw]

Great video, thanks! My only criticism about this presentation is that all video examples of "modern shotokan" you had were unfortunately from WKF karate events that while being great, great sports karate events, are not shotokan karate even when typically shotokan karatekas dominate such events. There are still shotokan competitions with shotokan ruleseta which are usually vastly different and eg. Japanese JKA competitions are really old school with no gloves, and with ippon shobu rules so there is no room for a mistake. You can (and maybe should) keep your hands down when you have a long distance (like shotokan karatekas try to be most of the time), but as soon as you are close, you just have to protect your head some way, and the way is usually by using your hands. Hikite, or pulling your other hand all the way back to your waist is kihon (and also kata with some exceptions), as that teaches your body how to use maximum speed and power, but you aren't supposed to do that in kumite or in real fight. We learn all the movements 100%, but also that you can do those with 50% or less of the distance. Also pulling back punches and kicks is usually not about that making greater impact than following through, but about precision/control and about not getting caught by the opponent. If you can hit 5mm deep, you can hit 50mm deep and that's game over in street situation. Obviously you need to also train a lot with eg. kickboxing bags and mitts using both pulling back and follow through to be able to do follow through when that's needed in self-defence or life/death situation. There are some situations where snapping kick or punch may cause more *pain* than follow through and there are a lot of situations where snapping kick to eg. chin is all that is needed to "dim the lights" and following through would just ensure permanent brain damage or even death. The thing with full power follow-through kicks is that if you miss, you are out of balance and if the opponent catches the kick, you are out of luck. Maybe for that reason thaiboxers tend to kick low, as those are harder to evade or grab. Any case, using control and pulling back is much harder than just following through so IMO the former is something you should train more than the latter, while both are important.

[@honigdachs.]

I did Shotokan up to purple belt. To me, the biggest pro of that style is the explosiveness and the ability to dictate the distance. I did benefit from that. This has certain limits in a ring or a cage, but it's a fantastic skill for self defense.

[@santannakarate]

Excellent commentaries ....

[@thierry-alainfeldmann9281]

My father is a shihan of shotokan karate with the 6th dan. He allways taught me a fluid and explosive fighting style. I never had problems when muay thai were bullying me. Nor kickboxing. The thing is martial art has to evolve. Otherwise its just a philosophy and not a martial art.

[@nbednar]

Excellent analysis brother.

[@inside_fighting]

Thank you man

[@recurse]

I think once we started down the path of karate as a consensual duel between martial arts experts, sport karate started down the path of being a karate-based game. "Old school Shotokan" was actually quite innovative and well on the path to what we see today. It was destined to become optimised to score points as per the rules of the game and to prioritise the safety of the competitors, because when you're in a sport, you want to win, and you want to get out in a shape to be able to keep playing. And honestly, there's zero wrong with that. Karate can be comfortably ambiguous as to what it really is and different people can legitimately have different reasons to practice it and different things they're trying to get out of it. Just be really clear in your mind about sport training versus self defense training, they're related but quite distinct.

[@kopfrauchen7194]

Great and interesting Video! My Bjj Trainer is actually 67 years old and still Trains every day and he Rolls with us too. He‘s also a Boxer but he Jumps on the matt and submitts 20year olds every day haha

[@inside_fighting]

That guy sounds like a beast 😅

[@AJ-jt1dh]

Great video with a balanced view of the martial arts in general. I practiced judo when I was younger and loved the pressure testing aspect of it during randori (sparring). You find out quickly what works and what doesn't! As I've gotten older I can no longer take the falls I used to and I'm considering taking up Shotokan mainly for the health benefits, to stay active, and it's a striking art. I'd love to reach the point where I can see the practical application of some kata. I only have two choices of Shotokan dojos in my area. One is JKA and the other is formerly JKA, but went a more traditional route many years ago. Both have solid instructors. I have an autoimmune disorder that causes inflammation of my joints and I keep it in check through my treatment plan. Do you think Shotokan would be a good fit for me, even though there are other more "realistic" styles of martial arts out there? Appreciate any input. Thanks

[@gkauto1959]

Try it and see: use those fish oil and turmeric pills and look over what you are eating that causes thee inflammation. Im 63 yrs old and have been at it since 1973, I just recently lost the ability to kick roundhouse and side thrust kick. As an older person look deeply into how to stretch bth your legs and condition your core. walks are the best exercise as you age, but doing the kata and kihon will only benefit you. Just look at people who dont train at all at an older age, they are a mess! now go sign up!

[@RichhardRemo]

Absolutely right. I practiced Shotokan for 22 years. Under the old Sensei like Kase, Shirai, Ochi, Tanaka. Running for Olypic made IT a Dancing- Show without an Spirit, Power Die ...

[@fulcifan6946]

The pulling the hand to the waist thing is called Hikite and the philosophy behind it is: that hand is grabbing the opponent and pulling them into your punch (similar to hockey fighting). And I’ve notice a lot of shotokan people not really studying or understanding bunkai which is what the kata is all about.

[@oscarthegrouch2275]

I trained shotokan and American kickboxing..my instructor had me train the shotokan to improve my kicking and we trained hard like old-school training....I haven't trained in 24 years so I don't know how he trains his students now but he made us tough and the kickboxing is what taught me how to fight if I need to..shotokan has a one punch one kill philosophy so they train for the first strike to try and end the fight like a round house to the ribs that knocks the wind out of the apponent even breaking their ribs for example...because not many guys are going to continue fighting if you fold him in half with a kick

[@oisinpark5807]

I think martial arts change with each generation, and this generation of people who are practicing it now when they become black belts, sensei, 3rd dans and have more power and authority to change the sport I can almost promise you they'll change shotokan either back to tradition or they'll improve it in some other way and counter a lot of the negatives about the sport that you mentioned, either way I don't think that the next coming generation will keep shotokan the same way as it is now which is kinda nice to think about

[@FolkeBernadotte2]

I like it that you talked about Conor McGregor. Many people when they hear Shotokan they immediately think of Machida. But Conor’s signature move is so Shotokan Karate 👍🏻

[@lesbubka]

As always very fair analysis 🧐

[@inside_fighting]

Thank you Les 🙏🏼

[@zakzac1]

To comment on the end of your video, I have been told by some people that I'm one of the best instructors out there. THAT by all means debatable, BUT what I see as a possibility as to what got me where I am, is that I feel word of mouth is more important than advertising. Teaching more important than making a profit. So it's possible very few students, if any, will ever become a black belt under me. Which will kill a lineage. I've had and been around dozens of different instructors/masters/coaches, the worst of them all I would say almost always are focused on profit. The passion isn't in teaching, it's in buying a new home, a new car, or impressing some chick. Olympics absolutely ruin an art. But I would say greed even more. Since organizations wanting in Olympics do it out of greed. One guy I remember in particular wasn't successful financially, but somehow he was at a masters rank in the same art as me, yet unable to perform any of the things he claimed he could do. I later did some digging and I found out he was ranked up way too quickly, never was failed, and his master did it because he was leaving the school and wanted someone to take over his place. I do not know enough about the fore-master to say what his skills were, but it helps show how quickly something can be watered down. And because of guys like him my art has slowly been turned to diarrhea, to the extent I plan on saying that I teach "martial arts" vs Taekwon-do/jits. Even the jits I took originally vs the jits I left recently has been watered down. Not by bad coaches, (one thing I'd give jits credit to is that there's no such thing as an unskilled black belt) but, watered down by sport. As well as forcing people into financial contracts.

[@inside_fighting]

I agree with everything you said. I’m actually making a bjj video soon about it!

[@zakzac1]

@@inside_fighting I look forward to watching it

[@Badge01Kenobi]

We had a Shotokan BB in our gym. He could do amazing katas but nothing else. Couldn't spar, couldn't kick the bag. FWIW.

[@ZainAhmad-jl4vt]

the getting in and out in fighting is something that existed mostly because of the pointfighting ruleset where this technique is sort of a meta but what makes shotokan should actually be the harder strikes, that's what many shotokan dojos practice when they are doing more traditional practice.

[@rogerwilliams2629]

That was very fair. I've been a Judoka since 1967 and had to retire in 2008 from 95 percent of it. There are very few techniques I can use after 6 back surgeries. I still practice Karate and Kali and always will, although I miss my Judo so much. It's how you train. Almost every Every fight I got into during the wild days started with me using Karate and ended with me using Judo, to my advantage. It is how you train.

[@frankprit3320]

i agree at 56 i can't use the same tech's i used at 20.

[@ranjanroy82]

At 70, i find a combination of old jujutsu, hsing-i , Tai chi good. For fitness and simple self defence.

[@hotpopcorncake]

MMA has updated its training with Shotokan karate in the MMA, I went to a GYM, and they made us do Shotokan footwork drills I admire Shotokan covering up the distance with its striking.(even though I got a short taste of that training) Lyto Karate is different from the sport Shotokan.

[@inside_fighting]

Yea lyoyo admittedly modified his style but i suppose that’s the point.

[@hotpopcorncake]

@@inside_fighting Btw Do you know about the Bubishi book, since your dad was a Shotokan guy? it's also strange how things get water down too fast. That includes how MMA is kind of going toward that direction too.

[@inside_fighting]

@@hotpopcorncake i haven’t heard of it. I’ll check it out. 🙏🏼

[@kungfujoe2136]

shotokan karate was my 1st martial art i still love it and somtimes still run kata's

[@samward9294]

This “old shotokan” you speak about with shobu ippon rules and only small hand mitts STILL EXISTS. I can only speak for the U.K., but these old school traditional shotokan schools are definitely still around. You literally just need to go find it.

[@judorateka607]

I hope this is true. I see it online but would love to find a good Shotokan school

[@jonathancampbell5231]

Old Shotokan is called Shotokai, though they don't do competitions as this is contrary to the ideas of Funakoshi (they do spar however). I think what he's talking about though is Shotokan before modern safety rules were put in place. Kyukoshin might be closer to that kind of Shotokan than modern Shotokan is, if we're just talking about how they fight

[@SuperComicsM.A]

I love how you said shotokan and not karate because a lot of people don’t know that there is more than one karate style, I practice kyokushin and when I say I practice karate, people start saying like “karate is useless, karatekas are weak” and they just don’t believe me when I tell them how strong is kyokushin because shotokan is the only karate style they have seen, so your videos help me a LOT to explain them

[@inside_fighting]

Did you see the kyokushin video i made?

[@SuperComicsM.A]

@@inside_fighting of course

[@inside_fighting]

@@SuperComicsM.A it always bothers me that people see karate as a single entity. It has so much range and diversity in it. 🙏🏼

[@SuperComicsM.A]

@@inside_fighting you are the only martial arts expert who understands the different karate styles, the strong side and the weak side of each style and their philosophies, not just in karate but in every martial art. I discovered your videos like 3 weeks ago and I’ve seen two of your videos and I see that you are the example of a good martial artist, always looking for new styles and respecting them. I truly admire you

[@inside_fighting]

@@SuperComicsM.A i really appreciate that.

[@neurosp]

When I was into shotokan was when hands up, hit but don’t hit full contact, no stop because you hit first but we sometimes did it for tournaments.

[@lannelbishop3668]

Not a bad video or take on karate for youngster like yourself. As a Seido karate karate ka I have great love and respect for Shotokan & Goju Ryu karate. I’m a 58 year man from Brooklyn NY. I remember people dying from training karate in the early 70s. Dojo storming was a big thing until the UFC got popular. Yes training in the 60s-80s was way more harder than today because a lot of Sensei were war veterans and Japanese instructors from Japan were no joke. This all change due to law suits due to injuries and finding out softer classes made for higher retention ,enrollment of students and higher profits. Some instructors were just selling Black belts and ranks. Mc Dojos are not the only schools who do these things. Mas Oyama was said to promote some undeserving candidates for higher ranks in his organization due to bribes and flattery. Some say Kyokushin quality suffer from this becoming less technical and more rock em sock em robots. This resulted in most of Kyokushin stars leaving and starting their own organization in the late 70s & early 80s.

[@inside_fighting]

Wow i didn’t know people were actually dying back in the day 😳 yes there are some super interesting kyokushin off shoots like ash O’Hara and enshin

[@lannelbishop3668]

@@inside_fighting I was alway a fan of Martial arts but I was hesitant to study them because of known psycho instructors. Watch the movie “fighting Black kings” to see how they trained back then. Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura and Kaicho Shingeru Oyama are among greatest martial arts instructors the world has ever seen.

[@Elfidel82]

The best view about Shotokan 🥋

[@eddlzilla]

I am thinking about starting back up in Shotokan after watching this video. One thing that is mentioned very rarely is that Motobu Choki beat Funakoshi Gichin in a challenge at Funakoshi's dojo, nothing violent but if I recall he knocked Funakoshi down twice or he threw him down.

[@inside_fighting]

Interesting. I’m going to research that. I would say start back up for sure!

[@eddlzilla]

@@inside_fighting It could be argued Funakoshi was a much better teacher and representative for Karate while Motobu was a better street fighter, essential. Motobu's style only has one kata.

[@giqwaju3691]

The perfect amount of kata. 1.

[@dbuck1964]

Gichin Funakoshi was a gent, Motobu was a thug. Simply examine the legacies that they left behind to determine which was better.

[@nickelmanful]

@@dbuck1964 motobu taught effective karate the other guy created a joke of style

[@tombayley7110]

Many of the criticisms made against the current state of Shotokan in this video could be made about all martial arts. For me the truest point was that it is much easier to find poor teachers and practitioners than it is good ones. Even with MMA there are some good schools and a lot of bad ones. I think that balanced reviews, like this one on Shotokan, can be really helpful in helping beginners learn to separate the good from the bad.

[@steviek1980]

Bang on, politically correct analysis of shotokan, covering all aspects, what a great video

[@Patrick-sheen]

Kata is a great way to refine technique, find your centre, get your balance etc. I always hated it but can see how it helped. I trained Wado Ryu old school style and a good Shotokan guy, if he connected, would knock u on your ass. They generate a tremendous amount of power. The modern dancey stuff was crap 20 years ago and still Is. That said, some of these sports fighters can be amazing fighters too. Conor McGregor had Gunnar Nelson always training with him whose base was Karate. His coach came from Karate. In general loads of Karate in Ireland and he definitely trained loads of Taekwondo at the time. His in out style was amazing and he’s never been the same since abandoning it.