NEW TREND!!! No Window Trim??? How to Tackle Modern Drywall Returns

[@guytech7310]

The issue with windows & door with out trim is damage caused by water, foot traffic, moving stuff. Trim is much more durable than drywall, and easier to keep clean.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Very true.

[@planesandbikes7353]

I like to go no-trim on windows but still use 3.5 in trim around doors with 5/5in baseboards. The cleaned up windows look great to my tastes. I've been doing it that way for 23 years in my personal houses. With doors there is more risk of cracking from slammed doors and the weight of the doors.

[@guytech7310]

@@planesandbikes7353 Issue is if you leave the window open during a rainstorm.

[@bwhite661]

We wrapped all of our windows with sheet rock for s clean modern look except that we added wood trim for the sills. It looks really good and survived our two kids and multiple dogs.

[@SuperEddietv]

Florida has had drywall returns for the 43 years I have been working here. I talk the good builds into a trim out every chance I get. I love the fact that you can go out to the jobs and "tighten up" rough framing. Very difficult in Florida. No habla level or plumb. "Modern design" is just code speak for cheaping out. We all know it. Good stuff as always!

[@petenelson8136]

Thanks for showing this. We're building an ICF home which has 13" walls, and we're having our windows finished this way. I just sent my building an inquiry regarding how the windows will be trimmed out to insure the reveals are consistent (like you addressed). We'll be having a window sill on the windows, but the other 3 sides will be drywall returns. Our windows had the insulation added to them last week, and they delivered a bunch of drywall today so next week we'll be having the drywall installed = sure hope he's taken into account the reveals as ours are very tight but like you said, tight makes it that much more important to have the reveals correct.

[@henrypeisch5289]

Ask them if they are familiar with dot and dab.

[@112wade]

Glad you took time to do some education on ripping thin pieces on the tablesaw. Most experienced people in the trade know to respect the hell out of that machine, but always good to give advice for the newbies who watch, and learn, from your always excellent videos. Thanks again, can't wait for the next one.

[@zeke_oner]

Just did this same detail for a house I’m on. Good to see you attacking it the same way. We did initially start with ripped ply blocks but quickly realized the continuous shim was the way. Also, framing was pretty rough so every shim got shimmed. Set the top and bottom then used the tomo line to shim in between dead flat. Good stuff. Appreciate the content sir

[@mikemorgan5015]

Drywall returns = regret. Not for houses with pets or kids. It's one of those "eureka moments" months down the road. "Ohhhhh, THAT'S why they put trim around things..... It's not just for decoration after all."

[@mikemorgan5015]

@@tommy_panzerotti I agree they "Look" fine. Not my cup of tea. But it's not my house. But the first time an axe murderer climbs in the window and gets footprints and chainsaw marks on those drywall corners, you'll know what I'm talking about. We can't be paying to fix all that drywall every time a capital crime is committed in our homes. It just makes no sense. But whatever. Ok just to be clear, that was my dark humor. I just prefer a wood trimmed window.

[@caffeinepuppy]

I wonder if you could do window trim styled after a recessed baseboard, that might allow for a drywall return-ish style while still having a hard surface and hard edges to resist pets and kids.

[@mikemorgan5015]

@@caffeinepuppy Yeah, I think they call it "tile". Haha!

[@teampalmerconst]

⁠@@caffeinepuppyTrim-Tex makes a product called Super-L Bead that covers over the drywall wrap eliminating the need to coat the inside.

[@chadthedrywaller6859]

100% agree. The drywall will fail around window and doors.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

Harbor frieght Quinn scissors and friskar shears are both good for cutting drywall Shims. Friskar 3 1/2" are always in my bags

[@Quickened1]

I was wrapping windows 35 years ago, so it's really nothing new, but back then I think it was just because builders were trying to save a buck...

[@andrewkennedy9704]

Probably the same reason today

[@danielyeary148]

​@@andrewkennedy9704 I'm sure it is. Builders are probably delighted that its now considered trendy. It will always look cheap and tacky to me

[@michaelgnafakis430]

You nailed it. Builders were doing that in cali in condos and track homes back in the 80’s

[@anonymouslyominous33]

Some windows come with a channel to receive the drywall

[@robinthoms9980]

The drywall crews will charge way more so i dont know what the trade off might be. Of coarse the price of trim is through the roof now a days

[@tonykarencasey8097]

Hi Spencer. Love your videos. I find I have more more control over narrow ripping on the bench saw when I lift them up from the back, instead of pushing down when I am flipping the material. As always it is what ever you feel safest with at the end of the day. Cheers from Bathurst Australia.

[@Lugnut64052]

As a professional drywaller back in '70s and '80s, only the cheap houses and multi-units with metal windows got wrapped. Amazing to see it come full circle. I never thought it looked all that hot (just looked cheap), and was a bunch of extra cornerbeading/mudding work.

[@corail53]

Everything goes around in circles as there is nothing new under the sun anymore so someone who hasn't seen it before decides to do it then it becomes a trend for a bit then the cycle repeats itself.

[@66meikou]

As an architect, I get what you mean but for a modern design, you don't want to see off the shelf trim around a window. Personally, I hate trim unless it's in a proper old house. I would run all my windows with gwb to the frame and all interior doors. The only thing I will do is run a mdf baseboard with a half inch reveal. The baseboard is flush with the gwb. This gives a nice 1/2" shadow gap all around. For windows, I might opt for a formed reglet so you get the shadow gap at a consistent width rather than going hard up against the window frame.

[@danreger8924]

Didn't realize you are out of Indiana! I'm a fellow Hoosier in NW Georgia. Love your content! Your tips have definitely helped me up my game in my trim carpentry. Thank you for sharing all your awesome content!

[@TheCewilson19]

Last time I did this i pre cut those dry wall shim to the same width as the long ripped shims. I cut them with snips and could gang cut a grip of them at a time. Worked pretty well.

[@BigJohnson1566]

A good carpenter always thinks about who’s coming after him, damn fine work good sir.

[@Tripring2000]

Lewis, using drywall as trim around windows is very common in new homes in my area. However the builders are so cheep that they don’t spend the time doing what you have done and just slap the drywall up around them and mud away. It’s more of quantity & speed vs quality unfortunately. Glad your builder is having you do this.

[@corail53]

They did this style as a means of being cheap in the first place.

[@michaelwurmser1293]

Years ago in florida we had a piece of 1x that had a 45° edge facing inside and it was just inside the window frame. The effect was that when wrapping the window the 45° edge would shove the drywall wrap up against the window frame. Provided the framer got the rough opening close to right. After hurricane Andrew building code people came up with what became known as deem to comply standards that forbade the use of those 45° strips as they didn't provide a sturdy enough support in high wind conditions. Now most medium and high end projects have wood returns.

[@markt4883]

Great tip on sawing shims. I recently cut up (4) 2x4's and used a 10" indstrial grade blade on my Delta Unisaw ( older), what a pain. I tried your method this morning with a 7.25" thin kerf blade and what a difference. Thanks for showing that method.

[@lrc87290]

Hmmmm Pine Valley Golf Club. We have a Pine Valley Club here in NJ. I'm not a golfer but I think it's private also.

[@northsideservicecompany3567]

When I was an apprentice carpenter in the late 1970's, I work for a Tract Home Builder and all of the houses had drywall returns to the windows. The sheet rockers would cut the dry returns and leave them on each rough windowsill. It was one of my jobs to go back and shim the returns and nail them in place. This was considered the "low-end" approach for trimming out windows. --- "Everything old is new again" --- Chris

[@henrypeisch5289]

It is interesting that architectural styles come, go and come back. Bead, stool and apron were always low end. Not on this project.

[@michaelfreeman8458]

" This was considered the "low-end" approach for trimming out windows...." -Still is 😎

[@henrypeisch5289]

⁠We have seen many contemporary homes with drywall returns (trim-less) and others with low profile casing. Trimless is the best look IMO for certain architectural styles. For trim-less to hold up over time, you can’t use drywall against the unit. The method we have used is described in another comment on this video. Faster, cleaner, less labor and will hold up with thermal transfer being the main threat over time. Condensation, nail/screw pops and paint adhesion are not an issue but would be with gypsum board at the returns. My preferred minimalist look is trim-less but with radius bead and a simple canted 5/4 stool. But then I want the walls to be textured to look like plaster stucco. Doors, door jambs and stool are stain grade. The home can go forever without an interior paint job.

[@henrypeisch5289]

But the question to other builders or finishers in the video is not what we like to see or not see around a window. The question is always “how to do it better”.

[@travisstorbakken1737]

Two types of people want drywall returns on windows. Cheap builders that think it's cheaper then trim. Modern builders that have clients that like the look. I charge a lot for drywall returns. Cheap builders.... " I can trim it with wood for less." Me... "I know."

[@stevegoodskills8531]

What about putting adhesive or expanding foam behind and screwing the shim to depth.

[@henrypeisch5289]

Rip and install extension jambs from 5/4 primed FJ material. Leave them to the back side (not the face) of the drywall. The drywall hangers will roto zip the drywall to the interior of the opening and the corner bead is fastened onto the wood extension on the return side and also onto the main wall surface. First coat on all bead is always catalytic compound. Hopefully Hamed is using setting compound on all the bead anyway. Bonding agent can be applied to wood. There are bonding agents that can be mixed with compound also. You can nail off any loose window stops and you are done with that opening (unless you run stool later). No shimming, no furring, no flying wooden spears on the table saw. No condensation migrating in and mushy gypsum in 3 years. More space for insulation at the perimeter and the drywall crew will love you because they won’t have to scrape foam, rip narrow pieces or install j-bead (which should have been used on the last house). Better mounting attachment for window treatments or shades. Because the extension jamb is fastened to the unit frame, any bows or twists in the framing will not show up at the corner bead. We drill and screw through the edge of the extension jamb with 2x4 and 2x6 exterior walls. This forms a solid and perfect substrate for bead attachment. Same look, better than messing with narrow drywall rips. The painters will also love you. Faster, easier, cheaper, better.

[@programuser1295]

Sounds very good. Do you know any place with pictures of this technique?

[@henrypeisch5289]

@@programuser1295 if you have installed drywall or finished corner bead and you also have installed extension jambs, you probably don’t need any new step by step for this.

[@trader025]

We had drywall returns done on our build in 1995 - I looked at them for years and hated it. Im now in the process of installing wood trim - it looks so much better.

[@bevgeigle9166]

So true, our house had that also and was built in 1976.. Done away with that look and trimmed out and now it looks finished..

[@95thousandroses]

seems like drywall returns would only look decent in a childless home.

[@TryItAgainTomorrow]

@@95thousandrosesThe people buying the home he’s working on don’t worry about such petty things as repairing things. They have a “guy” on call for such damage/inconveniences. Ultimately they’ll likely sell the house in five years and build something bigger because America.

[@bevelcarpentry]

We have very little trim on the houses we build in southern Australia, it’s all plaster reveals into door jambs, windows and flush base. I don’t like the look but it’s the modern minimalist mansion that architects/magazines love for now. Also means your framing has to be really good to match plumb/straight door jambs. Great video Spence

[@rogerhodges7656]

In the south and the west, it is common to wrap the sides and the top of the opening with drywall and to put in a sill of wood or a synthetic material.

[@jasonroets660]

I am doing the same details on my current build. I used 1/4 3/8 and 1/2 plywood along with a laser to make it perfectly plum. Also left it off the window for foam. I have been using drywall returns for years and have not had any issues. Using a solid hardwood on the sill can really help.

[@bwhite661]

We did dry wall returns on all of our windows for a clean modern look but included a wooden still on the lower windows for durability. I think it has a really clean look to it.

[@terryeffinp]

I ran into this on my uncles house when helping out on their kitchen. Plaster returns to the window, no window stool, or trim. He hated the way it looked. Made new Stools and jamb extensions and cased the windows. Just seems like a way to cheap out on construction. All of his interior doors are the same way. Plaster returns to the door jambs, then a piece of 1/2 x 1/2 quarter round.

[@dennmillsch]

Everything I've seen this guy do is top notch, a real craftsman. We did drywall returns on our double stud 11-1/4" thick wall for our super-insulated house. Seemed like a huge waste to line the insides of the large window openings with wood, and then another layer of trim around the whole thing. Yes, drywall is not as durable, so we have a wood windowsill. But for the sides and top, drywall. We also used rounded corner bead which mildly simulates the rounded sides of window openings in the old stone houses (2 foot thick walls) in our area.

[@patrickcowan8701]

I've replaced a lot of those after the drywall turns to mush at the sill.

[@des1107]

One nice thing is I know I got water getting in then

[@M30263]

Likely bc they aren’t using TrimTex as they should. And or insulating the gap between the window and RO I’ve never had a problem doing this unless a window wasn’t installed properly and leaked.

[@patrickcowan8701]

​​​interior moisture. New houses are supposed to be dry but yeah they're not. Condensation is the enemy on the sill. 75°+ inside and minus 10° outside. So many new homes with moisture/ mold. I learned on old house's that breathed.

[@des1107]

@patrickcowan8701 when it is enough to destroy even a junk drywall window sill that more than just Condensation Water damage on windows is almost ways on the sill if it was condensation it would probably be all around the windows and more even damage all around the window I haven't seen that before

[@brucewilliamsstudio4932]

I use the same technique for basement window returns and it works great. Great video Spencer!

[@JonDunnmusician]

Spencer, talk to the owner if he can't get you on that golf course he doesn't deserve a master tradesperson gifting his future residence with their talents. Best of luck with project & enjoy some time off this summer -JD

[@capedcrusaderforbuilders9671]

How about a video showing all the detail work for that pre-drywall. Studs, doors, backing for every possible thing that needs it, and more. Shim studs, plane studs, tools used, preferences.

[@jhickox]

My house was built in 82' and has returns like that. Now I'm in the process of tearing all the door casings of to make them match.

[@danielhanawalt4998]

Well done video. I have some windows I want to work on. This was very helpful. Thanks.

[@JmanRx81]

6:48 is gold

[@rjthomasindyusa]

I was doing this in Oregon 20 years ago. Having lived and remodeled in Indiana myself.... they are very traditional.

[@hu5tle-]

Good one. Drywall returns are going to become more the norm. As a builder I'm always trying to think of ways to make things easier, but still net the end result. If you're using european style windows (i.e. no flange, but clips) you could simply flush out the interior side of the window frame with the framing and run the drywall right to the edge, or have your window sit 1/2 or 5/8" proud of the framing and terminate the drywall into the "back" of the window frame.

[@johnwhite2576]

could you expand on this≥not certain what you mean ? maybe refer to a url that has an illusion ? Thanks

[@frjer11]

Would it work to use a non-expanding adhesive to give consistent support between shims? I seem to recall you using this method trimming pocket doors. Love your work and your teaching style.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Not a bad idea!

[@POLOLOUS3]

Basically like wet shimming foam backer board in bathrooms.

[@bradley3549]

Don't think that's necessary. Place the shims no more than 16" on center and the drywall is as supported as it would be at any horizontal seam in a wall. I wouldn't even bother with the full length shim personally. Just an extra unnecessary step.

[@kingrigidthedeplorable2720]

Funny how the affluent and wealthy are favoring construction practices that low income housing has used for years. Now, having said that, I can't help but think of your video about pocket doors and the wet set method. I abhor pocket doors but recently I used your technique with the wet set. It completely changed how I approach pocket doors. I'm thinking in this application a bead of PL would be the ticket instead of the shims.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

A couple others mentioned that as well. I think it would work also.

[@itaintrocketscience]

Las Vegas houses have been doing drywall returns for a long time. There is VERY little trim in a Vegas home. Looks like the trend is working it’s way across the country.

[@KevinsDisobedience]

Thanks for shining out the windows. Here the framers leave that to us. We use flat tear away beads on the inside against the windows (if there’s room), and corner bead on the outside. The tear away gives your knife something to ride on to keep the reveal flat and even and not wavy.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

I wish they would use the tear away bead. It would keep the angle of the corner at a true 90 then and I think would yield a nicer product. But its a TON of trim pieces to cut and install so they have not been taking the time to do that.

[@bradley3549]

I have done the same and the result is fantastic. The tear away keeps the window cleaner too.

[@ericpetersen7465]

hi from colorado good to see you doing well .keep the good work. from snow wood

[@anonymouslyominous33]

Nice tip for table saw saftey , thx

[@dougdiplacido2406]

I never use a push stick. I have made a pusher that goes over the top of the work piece. If the push stick ever gets in contact with the blade it will go through your hand. Great video and love your quality work.

[@danielyeary148]

No it won't... the blade will just cut the push stick

[@zephyr1408]

On the shim could you insert a wedge inbetween your Jack/King bringing you reveal consistent around the sides of the window? Not sure I do what your doing but just seen that as you were working!

[@ralphiewigs2208]

Yeah, those cardboard drywall shims are pretty tough and hard to cut/tear. I've had pretty good luck using one of those oscillating multi-tools.

[@mattstmartin9232]

I use tin snips. Works great

[@Commodore1541]

Thank You, That was exactly what i was looking for ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@daveklassen924]

When dealing with deeper drywall returns, I've seen a builder add a small thin strip against the window, throwing the drywall return out of 90°, so that when the corner bead is added it returns to 90°. Was very impressed by the forethought and attention to detail

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Yep, I think the only way to truly achieve 90 degrees is to add the L-bead in addition to corner bead.

[@Cognescenti]

This. I've done commercial and residential returns. 1/8 is how proud the corner bead is, and that's what we've always keep the window end of shim out to line up 90 with corner bead. Up in Canada most of our windows have slots to catch the drywall, so I just use metal light-gauge angle screwed all around the framing sitting out as much as it needs. Full sheet goes over the window, gets routered out. Then the return rips slide into window slot, and gets screwed into metal angle. Done.

[@JackKirbyFan]

Spencer, one thing you could do for thin cuts is to use a jig. You can either buy one - or make one. It's called a thin rip jig. Much, much safer for you and they really don't cost that much to buy and don't take that much time to make.

[@2chipped]

These are flat shims,you are talking tapers...totally different.

[@DonaldHarris-r2u]

thanks bro! Trim carpenter from Ann Arbor Here. I Appreciate you Sir!

[@BZ1340]

I’m always curious on this method and the advent of moisture run off from a window panes. In climates of -20 -30 during winter months no matter how good your windows,insulation and your HRV system is, its gonna happen. Ive seen it i 500,000 homes and million dollar homes. I Luv the look but doesn’t seem advantageous to the end results down the road

[@als1023]

I am laughing hard and really happy to read the comments under this one. I have been removing drywall and plaster returns for my whol;e reno carreer. Kiln dried fir lasts for the duration of the home, and always looks great. I've used solid oak and maple in many cases, pine and ash. Wait till the moisture from the drywall works on the wooden window frames ,,, yes I believe it will. Not as bad as the old metal framed windows did, but there will be issues. The look of the drywall return in a few years is well documented by others in this thread.

[@FreeRivers85]

We've done this, but use MDO for the returns that they mud over. Works well, and is more durable. Preassemble the return, legs and head, and shim it when you install. Obviously, windows need to be foamed first.

[@henrypeisch5289]

Similar method except 5/4 wood extensions ripped to width to the backside of the drywall. Drill and screw through the edge of the extension jamb into the window frame. 5/4 will allow for better bead attachment after drywall. No shimming. No worries about out of plumb or framing not parallel with the window unit. Hot mud on all bead anyway. But we like a bonding agent also. Insulate as usual. Larger insulation pocket for fiberglass or rockwool. No tear away bead or similar vinyl DIY gimmicks. Metal bead. Always. Reveals are perfect and the rockers will buy you lunch for a week. The painters will buy you lunch the week after. It’s a mistake to take gypsum board up to the window frame unless your brother in law is a painting contractor and he likes call backs. If so, keep using drywall, compound and caulk for the extension jambs. Your brother in law might buy you lunch. But I doubt it.

[@64maxpower]

How are they finishing the drywall against the window? Are they using Tear Away or do they just butt the drywall up to the frame?

[@vpnguyen1]

Also curious

[@henrypeisch5289]

@@vpnguyen1in commercial work, j-bead would be used against the unit. The drywall slides into that. With Andersen and residential work, the unit has stops that are typically shipped loose or tacked. The returns are partially covered. But if he takes sound advice, he will cut the extensions from solid stock and the taper (that’s what drywall finishers are called where I am from) will float his compound onto the drywall and extension after the beading is applied. This is the only way to execute this trim-less detail IMO.

[@mikejohnson9737]

As always, another great video!

[@seanmahoney2231]

excellent finish carpenter

[@mbrill05]

How come you are using a stapler versus a brad nailer or trim nailer? Thanks for the amazing videos/content!

[@InsiderCarpentry]

The staple has much more holding power.

[@jayishere74]

Drywall return detail is very common here in Reno NV in both high end and low end homes.

[@des1107]

When walls are done in factories and the windows are put in the gaps from the windows and jacks and sill and header are consistent because they set the windows on shims that are the same thickness and make the gaps between the jacks even you could possibly do it like that but the everything needs to be close to size and somewhat square

[@kentoakley9409]

Did they not seal around the windows before you got started? That first window I didn't see any spray foam to seal around the window. Thanks for the videos.

[@6peacemaker9]

Question, what is the table saw extention table you have on your saw? I need to get one for mine but don't feel like making one. Thanks!

[@InsiderCarpentry]

amzn.to/3O4ncwj

[@capedcrusaderforbuilders9671]

On a houseful of Andersen 100 Series, the jamb reach nominally 4-9/16", would you instead use pairs of 1-1/2 shims, one back near the window, the other out front near drywall face, rather than ripping 4-1/4 wide?

[@jimanderson4495]

Thanks. How would you estimate drywall return vs traditional on a job? More or less?

[@InsiderCarpentry]

About the same. Takes the same time for me to shim as it does to case a window. Slightly less material cost with no casing but that should be offset with more drywall finish labor.

[@NextLevelCraftworks]

Shiming the shims. We have to go deeper! :D

[@ST-0311]

So, no trim window casings are back in style. Whoda thunk? Did a lot of those back in the 1980's and 90's. They actually don't look bad when they're new. They can get pretty ragged looking as they get older due to chipping and even condensation. They also tend to look rather commercial and lack the character of wood. More suited to offices than homes, IMO. However, I must confess I have two basement windows with drywall returns. I like your attention to detail in shimming your shims. I've used full length shims for wood and drywall trim, and you're definitely doing it right.👍 Also, a sacrificial push shoe works well for cutting those thin strips on the table saw.

[@kiwdwks]

Thanks again Spencer!

[@lou9108]

Spencer, sorry you couldn't play a round of golf there.

[@gordonbeaulieu678]

North American window manufacturers need to copy what Scandinavian window manufacturers are doing and add a little channel all around the window edge so you can slide in drywall/or a jamb liner into the windows. The drywaller will the use a metal L-edge to connect the two and you will only shim/support the bottom.

[@georgerlopez1984]

Not a fan of the drywall return unless im trying to save money on trim. But with cornerbead at 3$ a piece, time it takes to mud and sand the cornerbead probably better to get the wood trim and casing

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Exactly, people think its to cut costs but its not.

[@LuisSanchez-wf9zw]

Spencer I was wondering what size did you use for stapling that trim so it doesn’t bow out after the drywaller screws in the 1/2” drywall? Your video was simply fantastic, as always! Tnx.

[@rotaxrider]

I’m assuming maybe because the interior frame is wood but most vinyl windows in our area have either a 3/4 or 1/2 inch return or a combo of both designed into the frame. I’m not a fan of the drywall return just because of condensation drip that can happen and just wear and tear on the assembly

[@dzaino1986]

Hey Spencer..as a near scratch golfer, how about a "what's in the bag" quick video? I bet there are plenty of subscribers who would be curious of your game like myself? Love your content and attention to details. Amazing talent sir!

[@tomreidy1237]

Near scratch golfer? Someone isn’t working enough 😳

[@-themercyseat]

​@@tomreidy1237😂

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Vokey wedges. Mizuno 223 pro irons. Sim woods. Callaway epic max LS driver. White hot seven putter. I'm very happy with my current setup.

[@jacklawrence3069]

Looks like the amish barn framers did the house if your from Ft Wayne. Been there had to try to fix some really poor work. Hope you don't have to mess with that.

[@jonnybegood4848]

Do the drywallers cap where the sheet meets the window, skimming a taper with mud from cap to the wall or do they just butt the gypsum with a slight gap and then the painter caulks? -Figured you would know when reviewing the finished product. I know! Not your responsibility nor affecting your margins but just was interested. Thanks.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

They butt the drywall to the wood, mud it tight, then caulk to the window. I'm sure we could use an L bead but it would be a lot more labor and I'm not sure it would really be any better.

[@jonnybegood4848]

@@InsiderCarpentry Thanks so much for your reply. You're awesome!

[@Olly3pow]

Please tell me about that out feed table!!!

[@InsiderCarpentry]

It's made by Rousseau. I have a video called "table saw mods" where I show how I made my setup.

[@Olly3pow]

@@InsiderCarpentry thank you Spencer!

[@farmerjim-fat-man-do]

New trend…? Builder standard in most places. I’m from Midwest where drywall returns to vinyl windows are expected. Even in custom homes, trim packages for windows are rare. Lucky if you get a stool on the widow. Live on west coast now and 90% of homes here all have drywall returns. Drywallers install the return and use shims to keep it straight -ish. No full length backing is used. If they do, it’s strips of drywall to pad out a space. The corner bead add a lot of strength to the corners so shimming is usually enough. Trim carpenters would tell drywallers to go kick rocks if they asked for a window to be pre-shimmed where I’m from.

[@64maxpower]

I'd love to work with this dude

[@Cousin.Justin]

Welcome back

[@ottokriete1153]

I gotta say Spencer,,,,,,, your builder is one lucky guy to have you on call for him..........!!!1

[@John-cb6wn]

The best on the Internet

[@2chipped]

An over-driven screw as a shim backing it out,probably wouldnt hold up on thin shims. Am guessing fairly early regrets on "modern look". Drywall returns on all my windows were in my home ,we keep curtains of shame over them. Virtually useless where the stool is. Baseboards save drywall from wheels etc up to waist high. Door trim saves drywall at egress/ingress,window trim allows for decorations. Have you ever seen a pre 19 century modern castle by the richest of their era? This is a tweener trade detail. Neither framing nor drywall, builder chose the trade with the best skills for this. When i worked on a framing crew in the 90's,we installed the tarpaper until roofer could get there.

[@scotts4125]

Drywall returns are the norm in Florida. Cased windows and doors are very rare. I built my previous house in Fl. All cased interior had wood, brick and stone. People never saw a house like that in Florida. New house is in a nice gated community by Lennar. All drywall returns. I miss aspects of my custom built house but honestly I wouldn't trade it for the new house.

[@doug.ritson]

I live in SW Florida and the housing market has been bonkers crazy for years with no end in site until every square inch of land has a home, apartment or commercial building on it. I'm a painter, mostly res repaints and I see 8/10 homes have plantation shutters. The returns are often not painted or finished because the frame of the plantation shutters cover it all - but I can see it from the outside. McHousing - I want big, inexpensive and high quality, but you only get to choose 2 of those.

[@mikefisher474]

My 1927 Tudor Revival has no casings, which is very abnormal. There is a wood sill and trim on the window jamb. It still looks good and not modern, just unlike all the other houses of that era.

[@theodoreshasta7846]

You’re a pro!

[@zoeyanth1]

Starting to see no moldings on doors also

[@bobcougar77]

Business wise, i find it interesting that you are doing this at all. I would have thought this job would have fallen to the drywaller. I get it though: the builder knows you will get the small details correct. I wonder if it's the standard practice to hire a finish carpenter for this job. I also imagine it's a bit difficult to price the job.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

It requires carpentry tools, so it is best to let the finish guy handle it. Framers and drywallers are to obesses with speed to do this type of work properly in my long experience. As far as pricing, I find it takes me the same amount of time to do the shimming as it would to case the window. So it's fairly easy to price out.

[@Icantball67]

I dislike the plain drywall look. I’ve also seen too many drywall cracks, paint peeling and moisture related drywall issues to ever even consider it if I were to ever build a home or buy again. But I’m sure there are ways to mitigate issues that I’m not aware of so to each their own.

[@304spencer]

If you ever do an embedded base or widow header detail. I would be curious to see your process. I just finished a 12000 sqft house with the detail, and it was incredibly difficult and time consuming to do. Running fake baseboard work boards before drywall with a laser. Shimming the base so it has a constant 1/8" reveal past the drywall. And then scribing the base between the drywall and the hardwood floors.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

I priced a job out with it knowing how long it would take...they didn't go with it. But I bet one day soon I'll get a job with flush base.

[@jboyd85]

Hello Spencer! QQ: I've had misalignment issues with thin kerf blades and the stock Dewalt riving knife. Admittedly, I have the 8"1/4 version of that table saw - it is what's available in my market - so maybe the kerf thicknesses are different? Are you using the stock knife, or is that a thin-kerf riving knife you've managed to find? Any info appreciated, thanks!

[@InsiderCarpentry]

I feel like I had this issue at one point as well. Make sure you don't have sawdust packed around the riving knife. That can throw off the alignment. If the knife you have is too wide you may have to purchase a thinner one.

[@davey820051]

The riving knife on my older Dewalt job site saw is no thicker than the thinnest blade I ever use (the same Diablo rip blade Spencer is using, I think), but it is possible for the riving knife to be out of alignment with the blade. My saw has metal shims that can be positioned to align the riving knife with the blade, and I've gotten in the habit of carefully checking the alignment when installing a new blade or reinstalling the riving knife (after using a dado stack, etc.)

[@michaelplays2449]

Great video !!! Thank You !!

[@rickysdrywall5288]

As a drywall guy I charge extra per window to wrap windows, and I still hate doing it. Especially because none of the builders around here care enough to do what you're doing, and even doing that the hangers will come in and pay no attention to where your shims are and run screws where there's no shim and bust the drywall making all this work pointless. I hate how the windows look, especially if you have multiple windows all tying in to each other. It's a finishers nightmare. I've been doing this for 31 years and the only houses we've ever done wrapped windows in was the cheapest little cracker box houses. Can't believe this is a trend in high end homes now.

[@elendil354]

Another method would be to measure top and bottom and then rip a tapered shim with the tracksaw.

[@elitetile2688]

Dude your in indiana we need to meet up I'm around lafayette

[@tenyearflip]

Thanks for this.

[@joelwebley9917]

Me intently watching this for the next time I buy and install a set of no trim windows for my house.

[@splanzza]

Interesting that this part of the whole house build is left to you, carpenter. I would say either framers or even more possible drywall installers should do it. 🧐

[@jonnybegood4848]

I worked for a builder in Louisville decades ago and he would sub out the framing. He had a small crew of us carpenters come in and do tweaks, adjustments and special details.

[@morganwheeler7417]

Lol, how many drywall crews have you seen working? Or framing crews? The precision matters a lot here, so they called in the finish carpenter.

[@jimc3891]

The drywaller will have to cut the excess spray foam.

[@louisghd09]

All the new construction in Texas has drywall returns. Didn't know it was a trend. I thought it was done just to cut costs.

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Indiana is about 15 years behind everyone else. LOL

[@scottward1002]

3:30… Rockers will rip out that spray form anyway… Always in the way!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@richardthomas1566]

Need to make the Rough opening big enough to just make a 1/2-4-5/8 jamb tight against the window and set the window wrapped tight in the 1/2 jamb then shim between the jamb and framing . Way cleaner job . Works best with bc plywood or MDO.

[@henrypeisch5289]

What is the finish jamb material in your comment. Is it wood or gypsum board?

[@M30263]

Is there any insulation around the windows? Ie window foam?

[@InsiderCarpentry]

Not yet. I talked about that in the video. I left a gap so they could foam the window later.

[@M30263]

You sure did! Not sure how I missed it watching the first time… likely day dreaming 😂 I guess the real question is how did you get talked into doing the drywallers job! 😂😂😂 We did three way returns with a wood sil back in the ‘80’s and early 90’s. Same with closets, have seen those in a minute. Prior to round bead becoming a “thing”.