Inspecting the Smelly LiFePO4 Battery Pack, Possible Factory Contamination?

[@LithiumSolar]

What do you guys think? Factory contamination during the electrolyte filling process?

[@Sylvan_dB]

I think the plug has a faulty weld.

[@norbertrivera]

Is the first time i see this but i think that was when filling process so i think that you must clean and use it and see if there's a leak.

[@LithiumSolar]

@@norbertrivera That's kindof what I was thinking too, so maybe just slopping filling that they didn't clean up like they were supposed to.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Could it be the smell of welding or brazing flux (for aluminium welding) that is the residue that should have been cleaned off?

[@LithiumSolar]

It's electrolyte without a doubt. It has a very distinctive smell.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I would clean it off completely and see if the odour disappears. Most likely it's a spill from the factory when they filled it with electrolyte. I have a 12V battery as well which has this funny addicting smell. Could not see any damage or liquids anywhere, so keep using it... I assume, your cells are fine and will make a nice battery for the garden shed, so away from the house...

[@MiniLuv-1984]

That sounds like a plausible explanation.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you for doing such thorough reviews. You made such an excellent point about comparing this to alternatives on the market.

[@RJ-cc1fz]

Well said regarding compression and flexible busbars. 100% agree

[@897aa33]

Well said what? There is no one ever reported damage by rigid busbars. Hence, rigid busbars are still dominating the market.

[@ahaveland]

@@897aa33 Yet.

[@RJ-cc1fz]

@@897aa33 definitely false. There is added pressure to the posts. Several have had damage at the posts due to no compression with rigid busbars.. rigid busbars are not dominating the market… look at basically every EV battery.. without compression and using rigid busbars the cells can expand more at the bottom than the top since the rigid busbars are stooping expansion at the top. Yes some leave a gap etc,, but why not just do it right and snug up the cells with proper compression and flexible busbars and KISS

[@897aa33]

@RJ-cc1fz show me any videos where people damage cells using rigid busbar. I agree with you. However, it was just a talk. I haven't really seen anyone using rigid busbar damaged lifepo4 cells.

[@hubertnnn]

@@897aa33 Plus those batteries are pretty new tech and are supposed to survive at least 12 years. I don't think you have any from 2011 to compare the effects of rigid vs elastic bus bars over that long period.

[@Roll2Videos]

You've changed my mind, Now I agree with the case you've made on the solid bus bar. As always great job with your explanations. Thank you 👍

[@ModernSurvivalSense]

The bus-bar has room for expansion. If it's torqued to spec, wouldn't the bus-bar slip before the post bent?

[@hubertnnn]

I don't think so. You will have multiple forces preventing slipping, not only friction but also the fact that over long periods of time metals naturally weld themselves together.

[@LithiumSolar]

As stated above, it's highly unlikely the busbar is going to slip under the nut. In this case the nut was a flat flange, but in most cases, these batteries are using serrated nuts. Additionally, it's not straight horizontal movement we're talking about.

[@neliosamch3195]

My guess is that the cell has a tiny fume leak by the expansion valve. More testing with a magnifying glass, AC Leak Detector or UV Dye detector may help diagnose the foul smell. Also soapy water may babble up around that area.

[@EngineMisfire]

Try some soapy water to see if there is some gas leaking out of the cell.

[@SteveLnone]

Can we can get another video of the hybrid water heater after a year or so?

[@LithiumSolar]

Eventually... I need to make some repairs to the floor from an unrelated issue before I can do that. Hopefully this fall when things settle down a bit

[@offgridwanabe]

Totally agree Maybe you could do a destructive testing video lol

[@LithiumSolar]

Maybe some day... lol

[@Roypow-Technology]

which brand of BMS you used, Sir?

[@sfkenergy]

These Cells would NOT have passed certification. This is not a rigid busbar issue, Grade A cells will only "expand" by 0.5MM as stated in the spec sheet insufficient to cause a problem with rigid bus bars. Flexible bus bars seem to be bandaid to a bigger industry issue that continues to questionable cells and then attempts to fix their inherent issues with solutions that are not relevant to proper grade A cells. Practically all vehicle and large scale grid packs use a flat bus bar directly laser welded to terminals, this is part of the structure of the pack. See Tesla Model 3 CATL LFP structural battery pack for more details.

[@Foxfried]

Seems to be an issue affecting grade B cells.

[@LithiumSolar]

That seems likely

[@BobBohner4851]

Totally agree with your findings

[@897aa33]

I see the point of using flexible busbars. However, I haven't seen a single video where terminals beign damaged by rigid busbars either.

[@LithiumSolar]

I have seen a few reports of melted terminals and/or terminals that caught fire. Of course, we don't know whether or not movement was the cause or a poor connection but the point of "why risk it when there is better at the same price" still stands.

[@comictrio]

Is the electrolyte toxic/dangerous? It looks like the electrolyte may have been spilled at the factory?

[@ericklein5097]

yes, you do not want to touch it. Will Prowse has talked about this in some of his videos. It won't make you keel over and die but it's something you wouldn't want to voluntarily touch with bare hands even once if you value your health.

[@ahaveland]

The usual electrolytes ethylene or vinylene carbonate aren't very toxic, but they contain performance enhancing additives such as perfluorinated hydrocarbons, otherwise known as forever chemicals, and these are not good for you or the environment, as they persist basically forever, travel up the food chain and collect in your body.

[@amperetimemarketing7931]

great video~

[@alexanderschifano8161]

What does it smell like?

[@benoittheminerandgamer]

I have this BMS JBD-ZP04S014-T-S V1.1 ( it's a 4s 100amps bms ) I don't know how to connect it with 4x battery. I don't find any information. Can you help me??

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

A leak is one of the things I worry the most about onboard... Have you done any research on what the actual chemicals are in the fluid, and how to neutralize them? If not, maybe one of us should... I bet a lot of viewers are in positions, like on a boat, where "taking the battery outside" isn't viable, at least not quickly.

[@matthewknight5641]

If my batteries haf a problem I'd be screwed. It takes no less than an hour to get my batteries to a point where I could take them outside. They are under my bed in a camper and would be a nightmare if there was a problem

[@TheDigitalMermaid]

@@matthewknight5641 Aye, that's my thinking. My install will be in the engine bay of my boat. I'll have a blower to vent the engine bay, but knowing what I could pour over the fluid to help neutralize it might be good plan, particularly if the electrolyte is corrosive at all.

[@matthewknight5641]

@@TheDigitalMermaid and it about has to be corrosive. I worked at the nissan battery plant in Smyrna tn for a while. The electrolyte they use is definitely really bad for you. They where what looks like space suits and enter rooms with double doors and a small room to seperate the doors just to enter. It's toxic as can be I'm afraid

[@hubertnnn]

@@matthewknight5641 Those space suits are mostly to prevent contaminating the batteries. a single spec of dust can cause significant issues if it got inside the battery.

[@matthewknight5641]

@@hubertnnn I know the stuff smells just like bubblegum. Sounds funny but it sure does. I was just a line worker stacking pallets but I remember the people working in the chemical rooms and it seemed like a big deal to be super clean. If anyone got the electrolyte on their skin they were rushed to medical and was monitored for a long time. The electrolyte would cause bad burns on peoples skin. I'd say you are kinda right as far as contamination of the cells but I'm 100% certain those suits and respirator systems were for safety as much as anything else. That secret sauce chemical is bad for people

[@KevinRichards-e6w]

Hi all, and thanx to LithiumSolar for his informative videos :-) . I am a complete noob with no experience of batteries at all, but have been reading lots over the past year (about battery construction) Just a thought about rigid/flexible connections and clamping batteries together. It seems that people agree that if cells are clamped together, rigid should be OK? but, surely expansion would follow the "path of least resistance" i.e. if it is going to expand, it will expand, and if it can not expand horizontally, surely it will expand vertically and put stress on the terminals??

[@Powerwinoffical]

Great video! Interested in reviewing our POWERWIN BT100 1280Wh LiFePO4 Battery?

[@typxxilps]

Could you bring the 3 cells in when they no longer smell and continue then cause maybe it is the first cell you had peeled of. If not it might be time to check the next cell. It is strange that it smells I guess only under load or charging / discharging. But my bet is that 1 cell has an issue and the other would be intact cause what usually happens is that 1 cells goes bad and 3 are still in good shape, but the missing answer is which cell is the bad and smelling one.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

It seems you confused the bend-ability of the bus bar with the vertical alignment of the cells. The bus bar is slotted, so I expect some give when a cell expands and moves, the misalignment of the bus bar with the terminal...to me that just means you have to re-align the cell.

[@LithiumSolar]

No. It doesn't matter if the busbar is slotted. It's not going to move wth the nut tightened down. When the cell expands (which it does from the middle) it's going to push apart from the bottom and not the top, thus they are not aligned and either the terminal bends, snaps, or breaks... or the busbar needs to bend to absorb the misaslignment - hence the flexible busbar.

[@volvo09]

That's not how slots work when fasteners are tightened.

[@davidb.5544]

@@LithiumSolar Totally agree. And they used shipping tape to try and keep the cells together which is why the non-flexible busbars are even more dangerous to use.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Thanks both for setting me straight on the slot. I was hoping to avoid spending more on flexible bus bars, so I guess I just have to clamp the cells together.

[@Josh-b3c]

When I was clicking like on your video I noticed how come there is no dislike button at all like I only have like as an option that's weird what is KZbin doing

[@LithiumSolar]

I would hope you're not wanting to use it LOL but it should be there somewhere. This video has 1 dislike so far so I know it does infact exist.

[@largepimping]

@@LithiumSolar c'mon - it's time you finally come clean about how you've hacked youtube's web site to remove the thumbs-down button.

[@ChrisEpler]

Most likely source of any smells are glues and other bonding agents (tape, foam, sticky side of foam, silicone or other lug glue, etc).

[@LithiumSolar]

It's electrolyte, it has a very distinct smell that you won't confuse with anything else once you've spelled it once.

[@ahaveland]

@@LithiumSolar I can attest to that too.

[@ChildofYHVH]

Glue maybe?

[@Bluecrossenergy]

Need the battery

[@davidniquot6423]

Close the leaking hole, the security is the bigger one next to it.

[@matthewsuggs1637]

why throw it awa, just use it as a starter battery for a generator and leave it outside. if it goes up in smoke being outside at least it did some work lol.

[@LithiumSolar]

Because I have a dozen or more working batteries that I'd rather use instead AND I'd rather not take the risk using something that I suspect to be faulty, even if it's outdoors.

[@sokbattery]

for injection electrolyte.

[@LithiumSolar]

Do you think the port is leaking? Or the person who filled it just spilled some and didn't clean it up?

[@sokbattery]

I think these cells NOT meet battery cells manufacturer 's sealed requirement, they sold as scrap , some seller buy and resell them as new@@LithiumSolar

[@galen__]

👍

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy L-S, ... Thanks for the AUTOPSY COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...

[@ifyoudisagreeyouarewrong]

lay off the booze, Pops

[@ericklein5097]

What brand cells are those? Just for future reference. I know this is probably an extremely rare occurrence but the fact that it got sent (unrequested 🤣) to the biggest lithium battery influencer on KZbin is hilarious Not only did you get a (likely very rare) manufacturing defect, the company sending it to you.....KNOWING full well you'd tear it apart didn't do ANYTHING to insure they were sending you an example of their product line free from defects....unless this is something that truly happened in shipping but I believe you stated the box it arrived in was without damage.

[@codraven57]

Making a mountain out of a mole hill!!!!! Such minimal issues…….do they charge and hold charge……..then use them. Non issue……next!

[@Orentas01]

I would clean those cells, make one cycle and check again

[@LithiumSolar]

No. I consider them structurally compromised and I don't take ANY risks when it comes to things that cause fires.

[@clarencewiles963]

I would pay for disposal but first discharge them and let the manufacturer know what you found.

[@aussie2uGA]

Well that could get expensive quick if we have to pay for the product then pay to dispose it. I think we need to go back to warranties.

[@clarencewiles963]

@@aussie2uGA This review also cancels the manufacturer from continuing to sell their products. We have been benefiting greatly from this review and will get manufacturing to step up the quality.

[@ahaveland]

Hang onto your lithium batteries - when people finally realize that dead batteries are very valuable, you'll be able to sell them. Per ton prices: cobalt at $30,000, nickel $20,000, copper $8,000 and lithium carbonate $37,000. The recycling companies should be paying you for them as high grade ore!

[@clarencewiles963]

@@ahaveland I understand that but a leak is a big problem it’s not something you keep around.

[@ahaveland]

@@clarencewiles963 If epoxy seals it, then it wouldn't be leaking anymore. Most of us don't have thousands of dollars to blow on LFP batteries, especially if they can be kept running. If electrolyte leaks, then the cell capacity proportionally drops and a BMS would notice and give warning after a while.

[@GNiessen]

Recycle it. They might all be leaking from the fill port. The laser weld might not have been a good weld.

[@LithiumSolar]

Good point, I guess it's possible there are pinholes or something even though the weld looks good visually.

[@JeremyLogan]

Was what we were supposed to take away was you explaining you didn't know what the f you were talking about, then fixing an opinion anyways?

[@LithiumSolar]

Yes

[@creerbyrge]

Give it to someone who maby has an outside garden pump of some kind...

[@davidb.5544]

There's no way it was from factory. The cell was damaged. The cells are under a slight vacuum when sealed so there is probably a hole in the cell that it allowing it to outgas. Actually makes me wonder if the cell was opened and re-sealed by a third party in order to try to "fix" bad/bloated cells.

[@atburke6258]

If you tighten the nuts enough to make proper contact they will make the bar to terminal contact have too much traction to allow even the slight movement available because the holes are a little larger than the post. Rigid buss bars are a design failure. A T Burke