Integral Consciousness and Final Participation

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

Jeremy Johnson's book is one of the most concise and well written surveys of Gebser and the evolution of consciousness I've ever read. GREAT little book.

[@timbutcher5653]

A brilliant and illuminating conversation. The ideas of both Gebser and Barfield are deeply profound but can be hard to work into through the primary texts, particularly Gebser. Hard not so much in their lucidity and accessibility, which would be achievable in an academic life, with reading rooms and days open for study. Modern life makes this time commitment hard to achieve, so I’m thankful to secondary commentators aiding access to the ideas. Thank you!

[@garygoldberg9906]

Yes, 'we must be mystics'... because what is the essential element of 'mysticism'? It is the embrace of paradox in the context of 'panentheism' which is essential to the 're-animation' of the world and its re-enchantment (see the important work of Roderick Main that links 're-enchantment' to 'panentheism'). It recalls something that my late wife said to me once: 'The great challenge in life is to learn how to transform paradox into paradise.' Yes, I personally think there is great truth in this statement... transforming the paradoxical into the paradisiacal. This is the challenge of this current challenge--and I agree with Mark that we are all called to be 'Mystics' in this context. Because the challenge of the mystic and the task of mysticism is to learn how to draw energy from the 'spin' of the cyclical, of the 'Uroboric' element of consciousness, while holding onto the Pleromatic element of consciousness (see the writing of Erich Neumann on consciousness)...

[@maudeeb]

When drawing, I definitely slip into a different mode of consciousness. I lose the frame of time, place, self, and even the internal chatter vanishes. It can easily be characterised as 'all sense of objectivity dissolving', yet this state is far from subjective. Better described as a kind of primary participation, where the point of contact is singularly the whole world. Not spiritual, more mechanical, but I can't help feeling there's a similar metaphysical realignment going on.

[@namero999]

It's the flow state. The thin line between the known (full confidence of one's own abilities) and the unknown (where discovery of new knowledge resides).

[@gabimartens799]

Lewis mentions Steiner in surprised by joy a few times throughout the book.

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

any schedule on when anyone plans to cooperate? so i just get patience out of this?

[@sereneintegral]

Oppositionality welcomed

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

the cool thing about Christ was that he wasn't waiting for someone's permission to live his life. He did what needed to be done and did not pray to his father every single moment to be guided. He also loved women far more than feral scientists

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

do you categorize females as "negatives" ? is that what Steiner says?

[@seth4766]

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

so you force me to pay attention to you guys intimately describing your joy of conquering? i want my mind back because it is wasted here

[@kevinshari8262]

The Case for Anthroposophy Owen Barfield wrote a book with Steiner Rudolf ,he did not dismiss him as you wrongly claim

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

the problem is that animal consciousness evolves from predator/prey... then all the television watching humans do-- they just want to watch. we need those that participate and that comes from something more than mere men.

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

i offer you an awareness of spatial experience-- what do you offer me? a healthy way? the animals refuse to put it in writing and there is no trust

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

the drowning man will accidentally kill the hero he was trying to save. this relates to our situation. at some point we must acknowledge a division. a system of multiple parts? perhaps a solar system with planetary bodies coloring the archetypes and moons providing sipping bowls of mirrored water so thinking/consciousness can be the mere reflection it is capable of? why are the moons leading the show? is this what death is?

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

it's been over a year of dire strife----- the jews were in the desert for 40 days. and mystics never seem to have concrete results. we need magical adepts. those willing to figure out solutions for all involved including the daughters you hate. a mystic merely prays, suffers, and waits for her masculine hero that will someday come.

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

so you don't even realize the mysterious other that competes along with you? so focused on the progress of "I"-- well, a man has two eyes. are you smart enough to find your other eye?

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

why is Mark close minded to magic? imagination is my magic.... i think i see John down here. he goes too fast

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

don't push that isolation crap. many christians rejoice together and i am pushed into a cave and no one notices. i try to become a christian and i am not accepted. there is no "my own sense of self" you invade every moment and take

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

i cannot relate to Owen Barfield. it is so boring out there and very little inspiration. i appreciate the effort, Mark-- but the linear thinking is torture and no imagination to build anything with my huge, huge effort.