Intergenerational Conversations: Charles & Philip

[@thisisraveamok]

What a precious, thoughtful young fellow, and a magnificent father too of course. I am 36, roughly between your ages. I feel deeply assured that our world is in safe, loving hands with the two of you here.

[@courtneyawalsh]

Genetics in action! Love how he pauses & looks up to gather his thoughts just like dad.

[@douglasrenk981]

and strong mimetics in action! I can only imagine what it would be like to have a thoughtful father like him

[@casaelmilagro]

Charles, you are so fortunate to have such a son. May you both stay open to each other and support each others' growth.

[@pranashakti4161]

"you are not here to make a living. you are here to live" Brilliant. It's my final class with some business undergrads today and I will close the class with a discussion on this. They are obsessed with grades - I will also emphasise that grades don't matter, but learning does. Thank you

[@Mandys_place]

Thank you both! I love the idea of intergenerational sharing of minds, this opens such a new space in me now too. ❤

[@marthaletessier]

My 17yo also likes his Sudbury school. Two years of private school, two more of public. Five years of a mix of unschooling and homeschooling. Still not a good fit. He is finally home. Our young ones might not seem to know what they want from life but they sure have a clear understanding of what they don't want. And that is a great start.

[@pilar37]

Thank you so much Philip, Charles (and Patty in the background) for this insightful conversation. My husband and 20-year old daughter did also listen to this exchange, beautiful!

[@xenia3143]

Your son is so well spoken and intelligent, it’s clear that your observing attention to the world and the profound questions you ask, have resonated in your children . It’s a beautiful example of , you do not raise a child but you lead by example. I read many of your books, and I keep telling every one how rich and insightful these books were for me, and in shaping my view of the world. I always have many questions about why the world is the way it is, especially when I learned about the cruelty of world war 2, and I couldn’t comprehend it, still not to this day. I remember just being very young, and I made a promise to myself that, what ever happens in the world, that no brainwashing will cause me to lose my sense of equality to other human beings. Still I had many questions. Your books have expressed these question I had, so extremely accurate. I could recognize the truth , because it exist without opposing another standpoint. It’s like a big hug that holds it’s all together. I work as a therapist, and I see the ‘war mentality’ happening in the psyche of people, including myself. Our natural responds to fight against what we label as negative. Feelings, thoughts are always countered with an inner rejection that has many different faces. And yet,the stronger the fight, the stronger the grip. The more radical , the more destructive. the process of force can be seen in every corner of the world, in every persons psyche, we keep holding unto it , only untill we realize that it just doesn’t work. In fact it’s making our suffering worse. With every client I am working with there is this realization at some point. It’s not because I can tell them, it’s because the desperation of not being able to “fix it” sinks deeper and deeper, until the elastic is stretched to it’s maximum, and then bounces back up. Can we hold the space , with compassion in times of despair, when we just don’t know what to do. Then a sense of acceptance emerges, from that emerges a sense of creativity. As a therapist we tend to want to fix people. It’s our human nature. Perhaps because of the fear of not doing well, so we combat that insecurity , with “trying hard”. Or we kill creativity with protocols because that gives us a sense of security. I have been a professional dancer for 10 years, all the same principles apply to movement as well. The balance between force, and letting go. Listening and igniting. The art of full awareness to experience without rejection. I have come to realize that the opposite of force is not turning into a bag of potatoes. When we let go of force, doesn’t mean no action. In dance it means, using the weight of your body, using momentum in order to move, so you move way more efficiently, whilst you keep your body active enough to stay available for movement. A bag of potatos is not available for movement. We need room between our joints, and a calm alertness, so we can ignite the right muscles. If all the muscles or full of tension, we are blocked, and there is no movement possible. When we let go of everything , become careless , we lose awareness and possibilities. No movement is possible. There is this subtle balance, that space in between. In therapy, and in dance, and in the world, to reside in the space in between. Letting go of the forcefull tactics. To be in that calm alertness, the listening, before we take action. It’s difficult to grasp unless experienced , unless one observes this process in action in one’s own life What you describe in your books, is fascinating because it resembles so much of the same processes of healing, of movement, of wholeness. Perhaps we just hope that force will do it, we hope that by working hard we will fix it. We wrongly connect grace, letting go, vulnerability and these softer qualities to being weak. It’s one of those stories that shape the world. Thank you for your insights, your questions, your words, your humanity, your honesty, and your bravery.

[@andrearobinson7526]

Thank you to both of you. I think my favorite part was watching Philip thinking and how his eyes moved into those pondering ways. He's an excellent listener, and a wise, calming and curious presence. This alone gives me positive and grateful thoughts about his generation as we continue to explore meaningful inquiry of life itself.

[@DKiley100]

There are no words to express my gratitude for this window into your personal lives, which so perfectly reflects the anguish we all feel about the overly magnified ugliness and the hopelessness it creates. Every deep wound we receive, we're forced to grow larger around it. Thank you Philip and Charles.

[@justinsellers1327]

Loved this conversation. Felt like a fresh of breath air in the content/podcast style world. Also reminds me how much I have to learn from 18 year old when my cynical mind starts barking. Thank you both!

[@spiritportraits1]

What a great kid! Thoughtful, sensitive, observant. Thanks for sharing this conversation

[@Technicolor_granola]

One of my all time favorite talk with you Charles. Just admiring you both, your parenting authenticity and your son Philip! I just started my path as a father 9 months ago and all this resonates so deeply. Thank you for sharing. This was a wonderful idea and a conversation I’m excited to share with many people.

[@mtornerorubio]

So beautiful and true. Hopefully this will reach many teenagers (and adults too). I would have liked to hear those words too!

[@karenslaughing]

Thank you- so appreciate the intergenerational views and the mutual respect you show. Would love to hear more of what Philip is thinking/ feeling. ❤

[@D1rty_P4wzz13]

Absolutely beautiful father-son dialogue. I especially loved all the pauses and the high quality of listening. Bravo both of you.

[@lorna4211]

Thank you both for sharing your hearts, your deep thoughtfulness and love of life. The contemplative pauses in your conversation are a model of the kind of communication we all yearn for. One can hear the true intimacy in your relationship. Yes, there is devolution underway and there is the beauty of what is evolving through the example of this conversation. It is quite confirming to hear Philip’s shout out to the Sudbury school at the end!! I would love to hear more about your experience of self-directed learning at a democratic school.

[@BettH-xk7oe]

so heartwarming to listen to this father/son conversation.. how beautiful the world would be if all - or at least more - children had such enlightened parents.. though luckily they're sharing via social media.. love is why we're here..

[@livicky]

Mind blown! This inspired me to finally complete a video I've been putting off/ wasn't sure how to do.

[@suziejones-jz6ut]

This is a beautiful and helpful exchange. Many thanks to you both xxx

[@spiritportraits1]

"It drives you crazy -- to have a valid intuition that is not affirmed or reinforced by the environment that you're in." Literally! YES it does. (Then that "crazy" gets criminalized or stigmatized or diagnosed as an inherent personal shortcoming or misfortune... when the real problem was the adults, systems, institutions, and cultural norms that did not affirm, protect, nurture, or celebrate our deepest intuitive and creative selves as children and therefore caused great harm to our integrity).

[@bisbaldbussi]

Thank you!!!! Awesome, please please more of this!!!! From minute 50, I am so much in, it's what is always hunting me... Great talk, please do it again!

[@sageandseer]

Thank you Charles & Philip for this wonderful conversation. My eldest is nearly 18 and we have had similar conversations around the future, we are in Ireland right now from a mixed cultured family and know we are living in very blessed times, although materially his generation and a few above him will find it very difficult to achieve the typical dream of owning a home...we have always taught inner happiness over material wealth, natural health over pharmacy and love of nature as our temple. Thank you looking forward to another father son conversation 🙏🏼🕊💜

[@wildandsaltyhealingcompany]

Oh my gosh. Phillip, you are a gorgeous young old man inside. My oh my. One day I'd love to chat with you too. I'm a grandmother in Canada and I'd love to meet you. Thank you Charles and Phillip. I keep wondering aloud how we can bring rites of passage backas a big wild soul remedy for the world in these modern moments as they are. This conversation has inspired me large as one of the ways this deep and loving work can unfold and looks like it already is.

[@earthlytable]

I listened to the entire conversation, and it was so genuine and thoughtful. I am the same age as Charles, and I found myself going back to when I was 18 while listening. I am a high school dropout. After 8th grade, I was done. I did not believe in grades or tests or the system I was in. But I loved learning and was very curious. I ended up with a GED, and with just that, I was able to go to college and even studied at Harvard. At some point, I thought I didn't deserve to go to college. And then I realized I could. That realization put me on a different path that changed my life. I did not suddenly think I deserved to go to college, I realized it had nothing to do with it.

[@johnfowler4820]

It is certainly a very potent conversation about education. The emphasis on success produces loosers and winners thus making the winners part of an immoral world. Very glad I finally woke up and unschooled my daughter.

[@nitsamarcandonatou9147]

Thank you for this dialogue. My wish was to have more time spent on Philip’s responses. I wanted to know about his second idea re his transcript. I Loved that he is more prone to listening than most adults are. Interestingly enough listen is the anagram of silent and he exhibited both brilliantly. Those are some of your gifts my dearest Philip💖🌻✨

[@funnybunny81]

Had no idea this was between a son and father, I started listening ~20 mins in because it started when I was asleep.. so beautiful. I love how considerate ♥️

[@HolyBeePress]

Utterly gorgeous sharing. I am moved so grateful

[@mackaylachalmers4489]

Deeply touched by this conversation, so authentic, sincere and thoughtful. I love the something other that “ individual fulfilment “ comment and the “ giving “ is what is important So resonates, I am not educated well in school and academic ways, though can hear very well a truth that lands in my body well. I hear this in this conversation 🌸

[@debrawilliams1693]

Thank you for sharing this ......wise son wise father ; the love is palatable

[@courtneyawalsh]

We are all dandelions pushing through concrete.

[@brentschleier1309]

Well done... Bravo Charles you can sure be proud

[@aliwooding3660]

Such a beautiful conversation. The sensitive, intelligent reflections that you share touch & uplift my heart. 🙏🏽 The timing of this video is in tandem with wonderful conversations that I'm having with my kids, as we have fun sharing ideas, doing game testing and creating content for Elowyn: Quest of Time. 😊

[@__OL__]

Seemed like every time my attention momentarily came back to myself while watching this engrossing vid, I found myself smiling. A precious, heartwarming exchange between two very endearing beings :)

[@anasboukharta]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 01:07 🌍 *Philip, an 18-year-old, expresses anxiety about his personal and global future, including concerns about climate, politics, and inequality.* 04:43 🌐 *Charles acknowledges similar anxieties in his youth, shaped by post-Cold War uncertainties and a dystopian worldview. The current generation's concerns are more explicit and heightened.* 13:02 🚀 *Charles advises his 18-year-old self to embrace the suspicion that life has a purpose beyond individual success, emphasizing the importance of contributing to the magnificence of creation.* 17:52 🏫 *Discussion on the disillusionment with conventional narratives, such as grades and success, in the quest for personal meaning and fulfillment.* 21:38 🌊 *Despair narratives, projecting a hopeless future, are criticized for robbing individuals of agency and the belief that their choices can contribute to positive change.* 27:29 🌱 *Observations on how some individuals resign themselves to societal norms without fully believing in them, lacking alternatives, and the importance of experimenting with different ways of living.* 31:08 🌍 *Charles reflects on his personal journey, realizing the need to engage with society even if it falls short of his ideals, aiming to influence positive change incrementally.* 32:07 🌍 *Charles discusses the challenge of navigating a world filled with limitations and wrongness while carrying an unconscious code for a more beautiful future.* 36:09 🌱 *Charles and Philip explore the idea that individuals, even in constrained conditions, can contribute to a more beautiful world through small actions and ideas.* 38:00 🔄 *Charles reflects on the paradox of simultaneous evolution and devolution in society, emphasizing the power of choices in shaping the future.* 41:16 🤔 *Charles highlights the importance of recognizing the element of choice in shaping the future, emphasizing the role of each generation's decisions.* 42:54 🌟 *Philip shares advice to his younger self, encouraging the preservation of the wonder and curiosity of youth, embracing the richness of life.* 45:54 🔄 *Charles and Philip discuss the concept of deservingness and its societal impact, urging a broader perspective beyond traditional notions.* 49:30 ⚖️ *The conversation delves into the complexities of deservingness, questioning its use and impact on self-worth and societal dynamics.* 52:06 🔄 *Charles shares personal struggles with the feeling of never having done enough and the societal conditioning around deservingness.* 55:35 👩‍👦‍👦 *Philip reflects on inadvertently passing on certain attitudes about deservingness to his child and acknowledges the challenge of avoiding such conditioning.* 01:00:00 📚 *The discussion touches on the detrimental effects of extrinsic motivation in education, where grades replace intrinsic motivation, leading to a dislike of learning.* 01:02:35 🔄 *The conversation completes the circle, emphasizing the potential mission of the younger generation to reclaim intrinsic motivation, purpose, and desire.* 01:04:32 🎙️ *Philip appreciates the richness of the conversation, highlighting the value of listening in meaningful interactions.* Made with HARPA AI

[@peterrhiem9480]

Thank you both for that. I want more of that exchange between 2 generations. I find it very helpfull.❤

[@papiarang8655]

Philip is really a smart and deep thinking ( and probably feeling) young man. Would be great to hear more and more generally, to have more intergenerational conversations. And young people, who dont know it all, but also want to listen. And of course vice versa.

[@robertdouglas8895]

"The world is an outside picture of an inward condition. Seek not to change the world but seek to change your mind about the world."

[@jonenos8]

Thank you guys for sharing this.

[@michelletruth9995]

Thank you so much, Philip and Charles, for this beautiful conversation. Wish I could have had a talk like that with my father when I was 18, or anytime for that matter. Didn´t happen. I´ve known for such a long time that "everything from birth to death is wrong in our society", unfortunaetly, after all those decades, I still haven´t figured out why I am here. That hurts - deeply. While I still have that vision and deep yearning for "the more beautiful world", it gets really hard to hold it on your own, without "a tribe" for support.

[@judym.18]

more from Phillip. I quibble with Charles’ assertion that his son’s purpose - and the purpose of humans in general - is to change the world. I certainly had that ideal as a young adult, but I wonder if putting “living fully” first would be more compelling, honest, and productive.

[@johnfowler4820]

" learning is not the product of the teacher, it is the product of the curiosity of the student." From " unschooling".

[@natalieraulo9773]

How deeply delightful ❤

[@ladavis1959]

How nice to meet your brother

[@jamiem4253]

Wow. This is beautiful.

[@saskiademoor8400]

beautiful AND surprised that both mainly go to their mind (looking up) and not to what the question 'does' to the body or what feelings come up.....

[@sarahredman6829]

Please give Philip more talking time. We know you have great wisdom CE but we'd also like to see your son's wisdom elicited

[@michelleryan848]

Wonderful ❤

[@missh1774]

You probably dont need to give any of those things any attention. Begin with understanding the concept of fun, falling in love, looking after eachother and trust. Try and ask what those things are and how to seek them out in yourself and in the world around you. I know it sounds absurd, but i think it's actually difficult. Your school teacher sux. The least she could have done was give the question back for you to answer so you could examine the extent of your learning, even if it was a white board exercise with the entire group...from home to school, thats a huge amount of transferable skills & learning. The best thing I took from that horrid time of education was this advice...if your gonna travel dont be a visitor, stay and really live with the people and community. My advice exercise? If you were going to write the curriculum for children when you are 26... what can a village teach a child and what kinds of characters would it have to cultivate knowledge that goes beyond the cosmos? This was a refreshing father and son dialogue. Thank you!

[@Daneiladams555]

Nihilism is a painful truth that most are unwilling to accept Nothing matters Only what you think matters matters I don’t think this is untrue Since I’ve accepted this there is a natural joy that arises not everyday But a lot And I’m 52

[@erikaleben]

I did like to listen to Philip

[@thepoetryofpredicament2233]

I’d love to see another conversation with a flip of the proportion of speaking. So your son spoke for the majority of the time and you spoke as little as he has here. Just an idea.

[@johnfowler4820]

Has your wonderful boy considered YIP in Sweden as an alternative to college Charles?

[@patsyeisensteinyogi]

Hi John, can you share a link to the college? I am Philip's mother.

[@14SOUL14]

@@patsyeisensteinyogi I participated in the Program in 2015 right after school and it was a very important year shaping my further journey in a profound way. If you have further Questions, feel free to reach out!

[@acuhealth]

Is be interested in learning more about yip?

[@johnfowler4820]

Youth initiative program. Jarna. Sweden. I have recently returned from visiting my daughter who is undertaking this year's programme. I providentially discovered it from watching a campfire production's video profiling Charles Eisenstein. Then encouraged my daughter to check it out. It is by far the most amazing educational experience I have ever encountered and seriously worth researching by any eighteen to twenty eight year old folk who want to be part of the solution.

[@evanho4538]

Wait, so no card tricks from Philip in this?

[@brookestabler3477]

I'd tell the old me (haha) that very little is impossible.

[@georgenoble6655]

"dang...it's on tip of my tongue" .......it's that "PERFORMANCE OVERRIDES PRESENCE" == the Probelm yer talking around.

[@brookestabler3477]

Magic is real. Maybe that's the ticket.

[@Daneiladams555]

Good genetics🎉

[@Daneiladams555]

Not everyone is put here to make a dent I don’t agree There is no proof of that It’s a belief that is all

[@georgenoble6655]

I suggest you REFRAME Nialistic to "ZEN"..... "Everything is NOTHING" a zen Physicist here... You've got NOT ENOUGH Science if ur stuck in too much PHILOSOPHY.....some rebbit holes to climb down.. :-)

[@donyalucas2713]

Awesome ❤