Internal Assessment Update - Monday November 20

[@ChuckThree]

Appreciate y’all keeping up the communication stream. Gives faith.

[@Thomipangang]

Why Amazon? 😅

[@dh-flies]

A lot of people will be very devastated if this company goes under... I'm praying for a solution and a great return to solvency. And I don't even own a Van's.

[@nicholaskennedy4310]

Van's!!

[@trentdowler7443]

Thanks for the update. Keeping us informed speaks volumes about Van”s customer service.

[@muhammadsteinberg]

As a customer I'm loving the transparency. From the sound of it, it appears things are moving in a positive direction. Good or bad, I'd rather be informed. Thanks!

[@riverrat7411]

I cant speak for anyone else but I was (still slightly) scared about our time and monetary investment. I think it's great to get these updates. Even though they may not have a lot of detail, they let us know we aren't planning on getting left in the cold with our projects. I called and ordered a couple parts yesterday that are in stock so hopefully I will see them soon. I hope all the employees there have a great Thanksgiving, Im sure y'all have been stressed worst than us!

[@benh2134]

All the best. Hoping for positive results and a healthy, profitable path forward for years to come. I think it's safe to say we are all rooting for you guys. Ben

[@cumulusgrandus1996]

I don't understand why quality control didn't catch this earlier and not send out such rough looking parts, but more puzzling are the builders doing their parts inventory and deeming these parts acceptable.

[@cm101490]

I think you miss the bigger picture and significant details on the whole story. First, laser cut parts look the way they do bc they are manufactured differently than punched parts. Usually they don't have the protective plastic, but this isn't necessarily a requirement. All builders were notified of these parts in their kits. It wasn't some secret surprise. Early on, Van's did extensive engineering analysis to determine if these parts were safe. They were found to be perfectly acceptable and they sped up production. Win-win, right? Well, sort of. Builders began working with the parts and *they* (the builders) discovered the issue. But note, the cracks on laser cut parts do not affect every single part. So even if Vans ran 10 full production tests and didn't get any of these impacted parts, nothing would have indicated to Vans that's these parts could crack. But now that there are impacted parts in the inventory, they don't want to just say "we will only replace those posts that have cracked," which would be in their purview to do. They've opted for the most conservatively safe solution which is to just pull back all parts where the parts, after assembly, could lead to larger issues later if left unchecked and unmonitored. The FAA agrees that there's nothing inherently unsafe about these parts, else they would have grounded every assembled plane with these parts in it. So overall, there's nothing inherently wrong with the parts, and not all parts will even crack upon dimpling. It's uncharitable to just say Van's was fully aware, they're immoral, and everything they did was only for profit motives. This change was to help builders get their kits much faster, and it worked! It just didn't work out exactly as they hoped. I feel bad for the Vans company and hope this works out for us and them.

[@cumulusgrandus1996]

@@cm101490 "It's uncharitable to just say Van's was fully aware, they're immoral, and everything they did was only for profit motives. This change was to help builders get their kits much faster, and it worked! It just didn't work out exactly as they hoped". Nowhere in my post did I say this. You did! Perhaps you had read this based on other comments you read. I remember my kit arriving in big plywood boxes containing unmarked large pieces of aluminum requiring many hours of hand work to make the desired part. My RV-4 has been flying for 34 years after a gestation time of 33 months. I've been a proponent of Van's airplanes since 1989 and sold many a prospective builder on starting their -4 or -6 years ago. My point is this, the laser cut parts from what I've seen on numerous videos simply look rough and unworthy of Van's past quality control. If the present day builder can't see this then build on. Best of luck.

[@justingarberg2320]

Thats a fair and accurate assessment.

[@pilotrhino]

Y’all have been working hard, we appreciate it. I hope you and the entire Vans team can take a break this week and enjoy some time with those that are most important to you. A few days ain’t gonna change a thing for us.

[@bertschb]

Great to see you Greg! I hope you and all the Vans staff have a great Thanksgiving as you work through these difficult days.

[@briand4000]

Chap 11 is scary but can offer some room to breathe for a while. I built an RV8...the first RV8 in the state of New Mexico...back in 99. It gave me tremendous joy and satisfaction, truly one of my life's greatest achievements. I look at what aviation in general costs now and wonder how anyone can stay in the game. The costs are breathtaking. Hang in there, folks.

[@shanecoffey1914]

Maybe ship some replacement parts to those who were sold defective laser cut parts? If inventory is good and and all and you are shipping parts for sale…

[@gerardmccarthy2432]

Good luck with that now

[@The_Flying_Mechanic]

A complete outsider looking in I think what may have happened at Vans is explosion of commerce without accompanying planning for the expansion. This, coupled with the past few years supply chain challenges, simply has become a recent problem. It is a very good move in my opinion to have a candid honesty for the current situation and I hope this proves a successful road to recovery for the company!

[@danielreuter2565]

Great job team. Cash flow crunches are scary but happen to most companies at some point. The business is sound. I have faith that you'll sort things out.

[@nwanchorcertification]

I think this is a laser cut part issue

[@offthetrack-k8y]

@@nwanchorcertificationproblem started with a change of primer causing corrosion

[@nwanchorcertification]

so the primer caused the cracks

[@offthetrack-k8y]

@@nwanchorcertification no the original problem started with primer causing corrosion then they had to replace parts pressing wasn’t quickly enough then they went to laser cutting and had problems it’s cost them millions

[@MsRandiCook]

Thank you! Have a blessed Thanksgiving!

[@JH-tk6oi]

Really appreciate the updates and transparency!

[@nwanchorcertification]

I don’t own a vans either but was thinking about buying a tail kit just to see if I like it and support the company

[@DominicUliano]

Thank you for the update. Happy Thanksgiving.

[@VRTOC]

Thank you Greg!

[@millerjd]

Thanks Greg!

[@haroldchapman8499]

You guys will be stronger after all of this is over.

[@didja691]

Thank you for the continued transparency Greg!

[@alexandergramm37]

Thank you! I expected news like this!

[@joemahan311]

The update is nice! Look forward to hearing more next week- hopefully the RV15 isn’t on the chopping block

[@randominternet5586]

This entire laser cut / third party mfg stuff just seems so out of character for VANS. Was their some changes in who was making calls internally on this stuff? It feels classic MBA type decision making. My heart goes out to the builders who put a lot of effort into stuff to have a bunch of cracks that yes, they are told are OK, but are you going to enjoy the plane as much knowing you've got 50% of the rivets with cracks?

[@gerardmccarthy2432]

And the hassle and time to replace said parts....back order issues.......

[@tinolino58]

A video with no information 😢

[@ProudAmerican1962]

There was some information there, maybe just not what you want to hear. 🤨

[@cm101490]

Sort of? While we were told that they expected to have more information in mid November, they haven't finished all that they need to do in order to make a full statement and inform people of the way ahead. This is exactly the right message. "We're working, these are some things we've done, but we don't have the full story yet, but we should be done with this assessment next week and can share more." That's a huge statement. Would you rather them just wait to December or after the new year while every builder is sitting by waiting for news?

[@Mrcaffinebean]

What are you talking about? He gave several pieces of information. 1. The assignment is almost done 2. They are shipping small orders again 3. They are not shipping freight 4. Update to come on LCP That’s 4 clear things.

[@tinolino58]

@@Mrcaffinebean four times insignificant mega fluffs.

[@Mrcaffinebean]

@@tinolino58 It was a one minute video. You can’t fluff anything in 1 minute.

[@excellenceinanimation960]

👍

[@gregisflyingforfun]

Bankruptcy announced on KZbin in the middle of the night in a video with commenting turned off and it sounds a lot like you intend to screw people with existing orders. I’m so glad I hadn’t ordered any parts of a kit yet. When I do start building you can bet it will not be a Van’s.

[@gerardmccarthy2432]

You well know people are going to get screwed... IMO Vans is done, the costs of overhead unsustainable. Bankruptcy is when all efforts to finance fails.

[@mhughes1160]

Great airplane ✈ Great company 👍 But the liabilities make flying to expensive for a lot of people 😢

[@cm101490]

Whose liabilities? If you mean yours for maintenance, fuel, and insurance? It's a small market and not much competition. It sucks for everyone 😢 If you mean for the company getting sued after a crash, these experimental kits cut back on Van's direct legal liability quite a bit.

[@mhughes1160]

@@cm101490 I mean if you attach the word airplane to a part it multiplies the price by a hundred . LoL 😂 because of the liability MFAA Make flying affordable again

[@wallywally8282]

Still plenty of people who where let down down! 🤮

[@pwffstube]

thanks greg for the transparency. not every company can admit they know nothing about basic metallurgy while building aircraft. and especially when such info is readily available. my confidence in greg and the whole vans team is so strong now that he has come here to admit that the whole outsourcing of production thing was just a greedy lapse in judgement as was the failure to even inspect the parts which looked like they were cut with a hatchet. i can rest easy now that greg has taken responsibility for ignoring customer complaints for nearly a year while continuing to ship crap. every company makes mistakes greg, but none are as transparent as you. it not like you are selling products that peoples lives depend on or anything like that.

[@md9680]

sar·cas·tic /särˈkastik/adjective marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt. "sarcastic comments on their failures" 😟

[@markserbu]

@pwffstube Nice backhanded compliment combined with sarcasm, along with a bit of dishonesty. Nobody at Van's admitted they know nothing about basic metallurgy, and I'm certain that's not the case. Knowing which parts can successfully be laser cut and then pressed or bent isn't "info that's readily available", there are just too many variables. That being said, they certainly should have done more testing on the laser cut parts, and having customer complaints about parts cracking should have set off warning bells and triggered an immediate audit of the parts and process. In the end, Van's has been a great company for decades and I'm proud to own an RV-8A. I think their biggest downfall is how incredibly reasonably priced everything they make is...I was floored that the bare sheet metal instrument panel for my plane is $37! It would have been reasonable at 2-3 times that price. Anyway, I'm sure they'll right their wrongs and get back on track.

[@Flygtraktor]

The art of saying nothing.

[@jms241965]

cautiously optimistic...have an engine deposit in for a year now.