Internals After 2 Years of Hydrogen

[@arjenchristianhelder1027]

Some Quality comments here! love to see everyone with some knowledge chipping in, Thanks lads!

[@jimfitzgibbon5492]

Great I love this. I have a huge background in internal combustion engines but zero in hydrogen engines. I viewed all the Very informative views. My take after digestion of the all the views. I think the aluminum in the oil came from the rod. No question that rod took a beating from knocking from the fuel. The question is why? I can,t answer that with out knowing anything about hydrogen burning rates. But what is known is it is not right as to one of the things you guys have mentioned. It did not look like heat caused it. It looks like improper burn rate to piston timing rotation. You guys say it burns at a very fast rate. We all know other fuels have flame travel rates, just different ones to the fuel used. Nitro, burns burn very slow compared to gas, or alky that’s why top fuel guys run as much as 65 degree BTDC. This stuff may require 1 degree BFTDC or even ATDC as crazy as that may sound. I remember in the 1960,s we ran 40 degree BTDC on Nitro & still braking parts. It was Don Garlits that that started upping timing to go faster & doing so quit braking parts.This my be the opposite to that. I would really like to know? Great thread 👍

[@davidhollenshead4892]

Please try using a better test engine, like an air cooled beetle as that will have real bearing shells, replaceable cylinders, heads etc. As you will impregnate the metal of the cylinders, cylinder heads & pistons and thus likely need to replace them at about 10,000 miles. At least that is about as far as the converted DJ3 mail jeep went in the US before the engine became too brittle...

[@ppdan]

Maybe stop wasting time to convert inefficient combustion to use hydrogen which also produces pollutants making this a lazy step to zero emission which can be easily achieved with fuel cells. Fuel cells are not only "cleaner" but also much more efficient.

[@davekauffman8727]

The silver in the oil is aluminum from the connecting rod and piston, HHO detonates rather than burns at a normal rate of combustion like any other fuel, so the piston and rod are hammering the crankshaft, and since aluminum is a softer metal, it gives way first. The ignition timing is off also, HHO burns so fast that the force of combustion happens before top dead center, causing knock, and damaging the connecting rod.

[@Hydrogenguys]

These were my thoughts too. I knew this would eventually happen. I have talked about oil contamination and the importance of ignition timing for along time, it’s nice to see it happen first hand to show everyone. The ignition timing was off for around 1 hour of run time. Then set to TDC after that. Thanks for the comment

[@JOOLZNED]

@@Hydrogenguys I waws running hydrogen engines 40 years ago, we found after top dead center ignition timing was the best course of action because of the speed of the flame front being so high, water injection also helped slow the flame front to stop knocking

[@lightnoise4134]

Both of those things. I would also guess that the oil suffered thermal breakdown. Is it conventional oil or full synthetic?

[@Hydrogenguys]

This was the standard engine oil with adjusted ignition timing. Oil was left unchanged so we can see the effects first hand. Looking forward to rebuilding this engine

[@AquaMarine1000]

​@@HydrogenguysThe same applies to diesel engines.

[@MrInnovativeEnergy]

We learned back in the 80's when working with the (American Hydrogen Association) that the timing needed to be adjusted closer to TDC. We used high compression engines such as diesels because you want very high compression ratios, and diesels are already built for this purpose. 22:1 to 25:1 would be best. Turbocharging pressures do not change even with the added pressures. A simple replacement of injectors with spark plugs and basic ignition coil system is used. Rod bearings and pistons get hammered because of the high pressure detonation (extremely fast flame front).

[@kitwalker520]

Yah my uncle was in on that - forged steel necessary

[@kayakMike1000]

Woot. I was right!

[@TheSunnyTrails]

For a tiny engine definitely not made for hydrogen that’s awesome man

[@aidanbrooks771]

I have a failed one of these engines in my garage, the factory con rod in mine is identical to yours and it is a very soft almost pot metal and it probably just couldn't handle the stronger detonation forces of the HHO mixture. Most engines like these have upgraded internal parts available online on Ebay for go-carting, and are fairly affordable too. I would also recommend retarding the timing slightly, and that with an upgraded con rod should allow the engine to be much more reliable long term.

[@Emilijano249]

So the main problem with hydrogen is the water. It seeps past the rings and mixes with the oil. Thats why it was overflowing. And also why the crank and conrod went bad. The scoring on the piston dont look to healthy ither. All that is from the water ruining the oil's lubricity. Best thing to do to make it last longer is check and change the oil frequently.

[@Hydrogenguys]

100% agree, I’ve always said oil contamination is a big issue when it comes to hydrogen combustion, it’s nice to see the effects first hand

[@royami_yt]

​@@Hydrogenguysone more fix, it's an oil heater that will evaporate moisture from oil (also in cars fuel evaporate from the oil). The reason why in cars oil changes is so long (7.5 k. km).

[@aleksandarpetrovic6613]

Water is a product from any fuel combustion, when you combust gasoline, you get water.

[@Emilijano249]

@@aleksandarpetrovic6613 well yes but not in such quantities. Burning hydrogen produces much more water than burning gasoline. Thats why its more of a problem with hydrogen and not gasolene

[@aleksandarpetrovic6613]

@@Emilijano249 I use pure HHO gas in many small engines and I never saw such a problem. I and many others use water injection in gasoline and diesel engines (cars) and no one ever sees a problem with water in the oil. His oil (in the video) doesn't look like water- oil emulsion.

[@MrTopHat4]

Plastic camshaft? I didn't even think that was possible.

[@Hydrogenguys]

It’s amazing right? A lot of these small engines use them, will be upgrading to a metal cam shaft on the performance engine build, to deal with higher RPM.

[@nerd1000ify]

Weirdly plastic is actually quite good at handing the contact stresses in camshafts. The reason for this is that it naturally has some flexibility that spreads the load across the cam. Think of how a rubber car tyre lasts well against the rough road surface, whereas a solid steel wheel would quickly be damaged. Of course the plastic isn't very strong, so if you install heavier valve springs and run at higher RPM the load will be too much for it to cope with. But totally adequate for normal service in a mower or whatever, and has the added benefit that the plastic is somewhat self-lubricating so it won't die instantly from not getting enough oil. And it's cheap, the most critical feature for a disposable small engine!

[@JGsgarage_unboxings]

I tore apart an old Briggs and Stratton possibly 30 years old. And the cam was plastic and it still ran perfect. Most of them engines have 16 pound valve springs which isn't that much stress on the cam.

[@Hydrogenguys]

⁠@@nerd1000ifythanks for the info, the aim is to install a high compression cylinder head with stiffer springs, and increase the rpm, I’ve seen a few go kart cam shafts sold that are steel or billet, hopefully be getting one of them. Nice to know plastic is more common than I first thought.

[@Hydrogenguys]

⁠@@JGsgarage_unboxingsthink it will be okay with 22 pound spring at high rpm? 7k

[@johnbelwell2461]

I don't know the context, but being a car mechanic and building engines too, i can tell you this engine looks quite normal for 2 years of use especially if it was used daily and was loaded the whole time. Maybe the crankshaft wear was a little accelerated and that is what made it fail, but if i compare it as to its quality to a chinese moped engine running on gasoline, you can see same things happening, some are even shearing off the crankshaft completely. Also one thing people misunderstand is that an engine that works is good, in reality they start getting out of specs before you realize it and need an overhaul, might even show good compression but when loaded it starts blow by like crazy, burning oil, turning it black, leaky valves, knocking, etc. If you want a hydrogen engine like this that will work for a long time you should find one from the moped scene for which you can get ahold of billet parts, crankshaft, highest grades of bearings available, forged piston, etc, parts that lasts for tuned bike racing at 30hp+ with less than 200cc.

[@Hydrogenguys]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated, I have found some billet parts for this engine which I’ll look into for the engine rebuild

[@davidhollenshead4892]

@@Hydrogenguys Once you work out the bugs, you will find that the piston, cylinder head and even the cylinder will slowly become brittle due to hydrogen contaminating the steel and aluminum. Back in the 1980's a Postal Jeep, DG3, was converted and the longest run time they achieved between failures was less than 10k miles. They lacked the ceramics needed to make the piston or top of the piston, and thus manufacture a piston able to stand up to the fuel... If you want to use a simple engine with a lot of high performance parts available, an air-cooled beetle engine will work. That has the advantage of easy to replace pistons & cylinders as well as new cylinder heads...

[@FlexCrushYouTube]

How many hours on this engine? And it really worth rebuilding this engine, with all it's design flaws, vs finding a decent small mower engine? They are inexpensive and you can find complete parts list and exploded diagrams for free on internet. Or find a used one. You can find those cheap or free and rebuild those cheaply.

[@tsm688]

@@FlexCrushKZbin any other engine would do the same. the point is to find out why it's failing.

[@lusanoluvanda7559]

Bro I just started to get into hydrogen business after years of U vids ..thanks for the knowledge bro .. really appreciate ❤

[@Hydrogenguys]

i'm glad you find them helpfull.

[@Normalmechanickid21]

I had the same knocking problem with my dirt bike and valve was hitting the piston

[@Hydrogenguys]

Let’s hope that doesn’t happen :o the plan is to increase the compression ratio, will need to keep an eye out so this doesn’t happen to me. Thanks for the heads up

[@movedsupernova4748]

My company works in close proximity with hydrogen engine development and as far as i know the biggest issue with hydrogen piston engine is NOx emissions that the engine creates. Trying to get around that causes a lot of issues with metering parts wearing out due to hydrogen providing no lubrication. I don't work with the development directly so take this with a grain of salt still lol.

[@varshneydevansh]

are you in germany? Asking for my friend as he's looking to work he's ME

[@TG-lp9vi]

Arrington performance is detecting NOX below acceptable levels. Also one can still use catalytic converters to decrease the NOX output. JCB in England has also converted their diesel engines to run on Hydrogen and they too found that if you keep the cylinder temp below 2300 degrees C, NOX is not created. Remember burning anything in atmospheric air which is 71% nitrogen can oxidize that nitrogen.

[@quantumbitz3473]

@@TG-lp9vi Then extract the Nitrogen for the additional use of superconduction.

[@vectrobe]

I think the biggest complication here is that its open air cooled, so unlike a water block with a thermostat you dont have a reliable operating temperature, and thus the clearances are not well matched between all the components, piston rings in particular. Piston slap is a common symptom in well used engines that have not been allowed to reach running temperature before being put under load (so if you drive a vehicle its a good idea to let it warm up for a few minutes for this very reason). Adding to this is since hydrogen will result in mostly water as the exhaust you're really going to need the engine to run hot enough that it can evaporate the water back out of the oil, ideally with the assistance of a vacuum line, and also the oil will have to be different from stock to account for the higher operating temp. A simple method to keep the engine running hot while still air cooled would be a shroud, ducting and fan with a simple adjustable thermal controller. Other than that you have what others have suggested about the ignition timing and compression

[@ghostfox3560]

There's a number of red flags that slapped me from the point you took out the spark plug and spun the motor over. One is the sound of worn out bearings, that showed up again when you have a sloppy connecting rod. It also showed up as that metallic stuff in the oil you drained. As you pulled the slinger and bottom end of the conrod, you see something that looks similar to light scoring that could be the oil left over, but you see it on the crank shaft journal for sure that there was something between the connecting rod(con rod for short) and the crank shaft journal. Another thing to note, where is your retainer plate for the conrod bolts? It's normally there to help keep the bults from backing off and act as a witness to the event the bolts get stretched and slop being introduces into the bottom end. Kind of fun to see what you say did fail and what I missed after the 7:41 mark. Hopefully the fixes are not too pricy for you.

[@TheGalifrey]

Oil is emulsified from combustion water ingress past piston rings, probably contributed to the big end failure.

[@lpete2766]

That was my guess to . changing the oil more often and maybe a heavier oil would help .

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

there is no dripping water inside the piston of an HHO engine. The exhaust gas is well over the steam temperature of water, so all that steam leaves through the exhaust. You can only see the water when that steam cools down at the end of the exhaust. This engine got a problem with far to early timing, I bet it was running loud like a knocking engine.

[@TheGalifrey]

@@unbelievablegoodio7176 Combustion condensation makes it into the oil of a low mileage Petrol engine, it can surely do it in a HHO engine! You can see the oil is emulsified and there is no other source for the water.

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

@@TheGalifrey I had once a Cosra 1.3, 60HP. I used full synthetic oil. Cold winter with long time below -15C. Lots of hot driving, I am snow faster than most people in dry weather. Suddenly the whole engine room full of sprayed around oil, out of the filler cap. Never seen or heard that. The cause even more unusual. Due to my hot style driving got the oil always hot over 100 C, hence all the water what accumulates after the cold start evaporates. It goes normally through the, in this car quite long, hose from the block to the air filter, so the oil steam can be burned off. But due to the cold nights the vape condensed in that hose and closed it more and more by freezing, because the hose never got warm enough in some places to melt that ice. When it was fully clogged, the block could not vent anymore and thankfully it just lifted the filler cap, blowing out a lot of oil with it, so all I had to do is crack the ice out of the vent hose... So yes, water in oil can happen, its just not more in hydrogen engines.

[@EricaMTB]

Well it's a Chonda. You shouldn't expect it to be the same as a Honda, regardless what it looks like.

[@davidhollenshead4892]

I don't expect a Honda to have quality either, as they make a lot of good looking garbage...

[@RienPot]

been a small engine mechanic for a while now. in my experience, whose wear are from using detergent oil, all soot and debris are circulating from the oil and damages the engine overtime. That engine has no oil sump and oil filter. so always use straight non detergent mineral engine oil for that particular engine so that all soot and debris fall down in the bottom, not circulating with the oil..

[@davidquirk8097]

I'm going to take issue with what you've said here but please bear in mind that I speak as an Engineer with decades of experience in the Automotive and off highway areas and have run, and advised on, engine validation testing for Perkins, Caterpillar and Roll-Royce amongst others. First, you haven't found what the made the engine fail, you've only found the symptoms. The wear on the Crank pin and Connecting Rod are a cause for concern but you need to get to the bottom of why they have worn. First step is to send a sample of that oil to Finning (Caterpillar SOS oil laboratory up in Leeds) and get the wear metals, contaminants and oil health numbers back). The failure of the oil may be an issue but to wear the crank pin like that would indicate hard contaminants such as Silica. Any hard material like that will end up embedded in the alumininium of the connecting rod act as an abrasive on the crank pin. I don't know the engine manufacturer but some of the global plants I've visited have paid scant regard to build cleanliness (not the big name players like Honda, Caterpillar but some of the types you see on Amazon/Ebay) The oil looks like it's got quite a bit of Aluminium in it, but the oil analysis would confirm that. Given that Hydrogen is insanely easy to ignite I'd suggest that there may be ignition timing and/or failure issues too. If you are going to do another long term trial you really need to strip, inspect and measure the engine both pre and post test as well as recording the load profile. That way you will be able to make better judgments on parts longevity. Again, scheduled oil sampling during the test will allow you to monitor whats going on in the engine during the test and help prevent costly failures. As a mininimum I'd measure valve seat resession, installed piston ring gap (both in the boore and the ring goove clearance), valve lash, piston small end diameters (checking for ovality as well as wear), big end diameters (again, checking for both ovality and wear. Don't worry too much about the rof to cap area, these are often machine to creat some clearence), crank pin diameters, main bearing diamters, connecting rod end float, crank endfloat, cylinder barrel diameters (top ring reversal point, middle and bottom ring reversal point both across the bore and along the crank axis. Given the valve issues it's probably worth check the valve guides and the valve stems too. Before you rebuild that engine try and get the parts through a parts washer and spend a bit of time flushing the oil gallerires and drillings. Good luck with the performance engine build. Look out for leaks (we both know how much Hydrogen likes to escape...)

[@wilsjane]

Phosphor bronze liners at both ends of the conrod would probably have prevented the problem. Top quality fully synthetic oil is rarely specified on smaller portable engines, but it can make a big difference in preventing wear.

[@davidquirk8097]

@@wilsjane the problem with the loose engine market is there is no money for such luxuries. If the engine will last it's design life there is no need to spend extra. The manufacturer doesn't care about resale value of the used equipment, they only care about warranty costs. In this case, judging by the degree of scoring on the crank, phos bronze wouldn't have made any difference, nor would a fully synthetic oil. There is absolutely no justification for a fully synthetic oil in this application: it's not a highly rated engine, the soot loading is virtually zero and the engine design should give adequate cooling.

[@Pozi_Drive]

@@wilsjane Hydrogen alters the chemical composition of the lube oil. Unsaturated c=c bonds saturate to c-c bonds. c=o groups turn into c-oh alcoholic groups. In the long run, alcohol groups 'strip off' to form alkanes. You start with a syruppy liquid and end up with some kind of diesel fluid.

[@danielbeard2656]

Finally a real engineer posts a comment. Absolutely brilliant.

[@LinuxGalore]

My parents have had a few LPG cars, one of the problems with any type of vapour gas fuel is the lack of lubricant injected inside the cylinder. So normally with gas cars the car starts on petrol, then swaps to gas after a few minutes.

[@ashleylaw]

Yes. Best to switch off LPG and back to Petrol a couple minutes before journey end.

[@FlexCrushYouTube]

Many of the waste oil engines that I have seen, always start and end with gasoline.

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

Petrol lubricates nothing in an engine. In the older days the valves seats needed lead in the petrol for not damaging the seats. But since then the lead is gone and hardened valve seats are used in all modern engines. I cant remember when that was changed, so if your car was designed or built before the 90s you likely need lead in the fuel. Using Petrol to start LPG engines has other reasons, its not about lubrication. LPG is also very different to hydrogen. BMW had decades ago HHO cars ready for production, it got only cancelled because of the political unwillingness to provide a HHO tanking infrastructure (fuel stations) and the fact that BMW used liquid hydrogen. They had no high pressure gas tanks as we have them today and liquid hydrogen wasn't ideal for a lot of reasons. We still have a problem with politics.

[@allesklarklaus147]

@@unbelievablegoodio7176 To be fair that BMW 7-series on hydrogen was not really great.. I don't think it would have sold with considerably less power than the petrol version and a fuel tank which empties itself in a couple days, reducing the range from almost useful to "yeah nah". Might have been useful if it was a smaller, budget car for city use. And nowadays we really don't need hydrogen cars anymore.

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

@@allesklarklaus147 you are wrong. Read the latest ideas from Tesla. For him EV only cars are history, didnt work well, and hydrogen will it be now. In his case, an intelligent mix. The same is for trucks and ships, trains, hydogen works perfect there, and if they have fuel stations, the cars will use them too. Hydrogen is also a very cool way to store energy one day from fusion reactors, because these are base load stations and cannot balance to peak loads. Dreaming from batteries in the size of towns is a now way, at least not with LI batteries. In Scotland are vehicles running on hydrogen, because we have plenty wind, hydro and solar enough to make hydrogen for them, the hydrogen easy to store unlimited time until its needed, and that deescalates also the disturbing of renewable energies to the E grid. Finally, hydrogen production systems can be built and maintained with a very small footprint from local small companies, so this keeps the jobs near the consumers. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHKomZuPprJ4eKc

[@eklein3904]

Nice that there is no real carbon issues…

[@mando719ad]

Use a catch can, if you could. Will help. Shorter oil change intervals.

[@electro1622]

If you want to reduce the burn rate of hydrogen mix some exhaust gas( non combustible gas) with it by tapping off the exhaust gas and feeding it into the inlet... you will have to find the right amount for your engine but this will also solve your backfiring issue (due to hydrogen burning way too fast and firing while the exhaust valve is still open)

[@SirHackaL0t.]

Knowing what failed and why it failed are not the same thing. You know what failed but not why.

[@SteveEh]

Interesting results. A cheap hour meter would be helpful for diagnosing problems and oil change frequency (which should be done more often, as seen by the damage)

[@Hydrogenguys]

Thanks, Great suggestion.

[@royami_yt]

One more fix, it's an oil heater that will evaporate moisture from oil (also in cars fuel evaporate from the oil). The reason why in cars oil changes is so long (7.5 k. km). Also oil changes must be every 250 motor hours, better if u will change it more frequently then that amount of hours.

[@michaelbullock7747]

I've pulled spark plugs from propane trucks at 100,000 miles and they are clean as a whistle.

[@dusk.nyx77]

one thing i learned in school as a welder is hydrogen can seep into carbon steel, and just steel in general and cause cracking and weakness, ive been wondering how this will affect engines that run something like a cast iron block

[@Steve-s4b]

While I never expect to see commercially viable hydrogen ICE cars, I do fully expect to see them in the near future for many stationary applications. They kinks can *easily* be worked out for stationary engines. With vehicles a lot of the major issues come from storage of fuel, safety of that fuel in a collision, overall packaging and making it work over an extremely wide range of RPMs, climates, etc. These aren't really of any concern for a stationary engine as you effectively remove more than half of the most problematic situations.

[@wernerviehhauser94]

I don't think so. If you need a stationary power source, and hydrogen is the fuel of your choice, a fuel cell is the way to go. No hydrogen operated ICE gets even close. Right now, you can already buy them in the kW running on methanol - no oil change interval, very little moving parts, the fuel does not age like gasoline or diesel does... etc ... pp.

[@BjarneLinetsky]

@@wernerviehhauser94 I am of the opinion that thermal energy is on the way out, Electrical machines easily exceed 90% efficiency whereas thermal energy conversion is limited to roughly 40 % and you cannot improve this. The future is direct conversion of solar energy to electrical energy that will power human civilization.

[@FlexCrushYouTube]

@@BjarneLinetsky Once we have decent solar cells

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

@@wernerviehhauser94 for new builds an ICE may not be the best, but modifying existing ICE would stop CO2 from that moment on. Thats the fine thing with hydrogen, no need to throw away existing vehicles, and parallel increase the numbers of fuel cells until they take over. The same for all industries who cannot use electircity, because they need flames. One day, when fusion reactors finally provide endless electric energy, it still has to be stored (buffered) in gigantic scale, and that will not be batteries, it will be hydrogen. Its no politics, its simple technical.

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

@@BjarneLinetsky you studied neither engineering nor physics but studied BBC. Waste of time.

[@markhuyette8509]

I hate to tell you but it's a lubrication problem a thicker synthetic oil your on the right track keep up the hard work making videos and have a blessed day today 🙏

[@1crazypj]

The big end is lubricated by a 'dipper arm''. For it to work properly, you need a thinner higher quality oil. Thicker oil just can't get through the splash lubrication hole and will lead to earlier failure.

[@louisvanrijn3964]

The water content in the oil must be measured before any discussion get ground, and then we get from bar-talk to sience. 1. Weigh say 50 cc of oil very accuratly. 2. Heat it to 100 C for 15 minutes. The water content cooks off. 3. Weigh it again accuratly. 4. Note down the change. It is well known by Beetle drivers (long, long before your time) that the oil collects water in the winter period and the oil level starts to rise. After a long highway run of mountainpass-climb with 100 C plus oil temperature, the oil level is suddenly lower. Yes, the water is cooked out. This can be found on the aircooled forum.

[@rhyoliteaquacade]

I had a '73 Karmann Ghia in Chicago. The oil filler would get that milky sludge. It was impossible to get the engine warm enough in the dead of winter to boil that out. I suppose a block heater would have helped.

[@davidhollenshead4892]

@@rhyoliteaquacade Pardon me but the beetle engine in a Karmann Ghia had no oil filter unless someone added an aftermarket oil pump with a filter. What you are probably referring to is the screen that keeps large contaminates out of the oil. If you ran the car for an hour on the highway at least twice a month, the oil would remain free of water...

[@rhyoliteaquacade]

@@davidhollenshead4892 Read my comment. Oil FILLER. The cap next to the alternator. That area would get frothy milky sludge.

[@davidhollenshead4892]

@@rhyoliteaquacade I thought you made a typo. By "Oil FILLER" you are apparently referring to the generator pedestal or on later type 1 engines the alternator pedestal. By the way as long as the oil on the dipstick remained looking water free, you could just ignore the froth near the bent for the crankcase.... [ I rebuilt dozens of these engines for a VW shop owner and never saw much of a mess there...]

[@rhyoliteaquacade]

@@davidhollenshead4892 Back in the 70's and 80's in Chicago we were burning Gasahol from the pump and there were problems with water in the tank. My tank got a pinhole leak from the rust and I had to drive to a local fire station to have them drain the full tank and I rigged up a temporary gas can to get back home where I bought and installed a new tank..

[@dennyoconnor8680]

When you burn hydrogen with oxygen the end product is Water. And it is hot water. And it is corrosive. TAANSTAAFL Water in the vapor stage plus heat plus sulfur makes sulphuric acid. Acid vapor in your oil is not good. Especially between your connecting rod bearing surface and the crank pin. Anyone who has converted a gas engine into a steam engine learns some of these things really fast. As stated above, hydrogen is closer to a detonation than a controlled flame front traveling across the piston generating a torque curve. It has to be fired very close to TDC. An ICE has to be completely redesigned mechanically, materials, fuel control, thermal control, yadda yadda to be reliable. Hydrogen engines on the road in the millions is not in my crystal ball. And the fan bois can spare me the tantrums. Just because you really truely believe something with every fiber of your being and your soul, does not make it so. Physics has no religion.

[@miketaylor7487]

3:00 THANK YOU! I am looking to do something like this and was wondering how to get the rotor off.

[@scottallpress3818]

I wonder if having a heating element in the oil sump to get the oil to 80c quickly would help evaporate the water from the oil , obviously a breather system would Be needed too .

[@aigslmnop6559]

one pass on materials (the thermal nox and well to wheel notwithstanding); hydrogen embrittlement affects any metal component what appears to the eye belies what's hidden in lines, tanks, block, etc. a hydride, crystalline defects

[@jimpiaz9537]

I have one recommendation. Increase the angle of crosshatch in the cylinder and maybe run two compression rings. Or even flip the wiper ring so it screets oil up into the combustion chamber instead of down. Also maybe Increase the turning load on the crank if possible. If you let an engine freewheel with no load it causes gaps to load and unload. Its kind of like valve float but not really. Imagine grabing a con rod with a worn bearing and brakecleaning all the oil out of it. If you push and pull on it you'll feel it click because its out of tolerance. Even if the rod, crankpin and bearing are in tolerance you will still feel a very teeny tiny click. The rod and crankpin will change load dynamics one time per cycle. Without a continuous load the load dynamics change erratically creating many little micro impacts . Eventually wearing out the crank pin and Rod. Also the way the fuel burns is different. I'm pretty sure the burn is much more immediate. You don't have to advance the timing near as much and the Piston has already reached Peak heat a few degrees after top dead center where has gasoline will continue to combust through most of the stroke. Where the oil cushions the Gap in the Con rod it will accelerate into contact with the crank pin more rapidly because of the increased energy on detonation. Good luck my friend.

[@castlesteve1]

Apparently the Con rod bears directly onto the crank. Is this common not to use bearing shells?

[@Hydrogenguys]

Yeah pretty common for cheap engines like this

[@gogogeedus]

I think a short stroke engine would suit hydrogen better because it burns faster and flashes quicker but obviously the big ends need to be stronger, a roller bearing crank might fix the problem, the combustion chambers might need a redesign to keep the heat off the cylinder walls. Very interesting keep up the good work, one enthusiastic guy like you is going to save the planet but if he had some help it might make things happen quicker.

[@mr.roberts2349]

Water in the oil. Condensation building in the head and falling down into the lower ?

[@paulyadams]

Try using a PAO Ester oil, its often used in vehicles with exotic fuels due to the both lubrication properties and its ability to deal with more moisture than a standard oil. Its commonly used in both Methanol and Ethanol applications.

[@Hydrogenguys]

Thanks for the information, will definitely look into that for the rebuild.

[@bobrose7900]

2 years and how many oil changes? All that water blowing by, the same as well forklifts run on propane, it's another world compared to super unleaded. Interesting video.

[@manray8513]

Hey man, there’s a valve seat made for running on hydrogen and natural gas it’s made by dura-bond to eliminate micro welding, the product called dura-bond diamond series valve seat

[@Hydrogenguys]

Nice one! Will do some research on it. Cheers

[@manray8513]

There’s a video from Darin Morgan about valve seat also

[@tarstarkusz]

2:54 You really don't need a tool. Turn it up so the generator is facing the ceiling. If it doesn't already have threads (many do, but not all), tap some threads in the hole. Then get a 6-8 inch bolt of the same size and thread. Pour some water in the hole (most of the way) and then put thread tape on the bolt and screw the bolt in. This will hydraulically release the rotor from the tapered shaft. This is a pretty safe way to do it. You have to be careful with these rotors as they have some delicate wire going to the slip rings. You can also put a crow bar between the case and the back of the rotor. Put the bolt in and then give a good wack. This is usually enough. They really aren't on there that bad. The downside to this method is if you miss the bolt and hit the wire, it will never work again and these things are expensive. Usually either the stator or rotor will be more than the machine is worth.

[@howardsimpson489]

Another way is to fill the hole with grease via a needle point gun. Then wind in your removing bolt. I have machined the big end journal and the conrod on an ordinary lathe. Machine the big end caps to reduce the worn diameter. Fit shells to the rod. They do not need to be the correct ones just the right width and thickness, the curve can be reshaped to suit. I have also done this to just one rod on diesels that were run out of oil but otherwise in good nick. Engine recon shops will tell you it cannot be done but after a couple of thousand running hours and still working, I know what I prefer.

[@SmokedTirez]

A small methanol or water injection unit will act ac a control for the burn rate and keep the heat off the valves.

[@MRPricks]

Needs an extra ring for a better seal.

[@LimitedGunnerGM]

I’m curious if a thin PVD coating on the head/cylinder/piston would help eliminate or minimize the suspended aluminum.

[@vilefly]

The oil suggests that there is water contamination of the oil, causing excessive wear. You should use an oil that is water tolerant, or perhaps an additive. Water soluble oil would be a good thing to add. If you know someone who tinkers with steam engines, they might have a few better suggestions.

[@ronaldwarren1267]

I repair the little engines and wondering what type of oil do you use and how frequently you change it set tappets etc

[@Hydrogenguys]

This was stranded oil, intentionally left and unchanged to see the effect, a few people have recommended an alternative oil so will be looking into that for the rebuild, and a high compression cylinder head

[@chiccoka]

That’s very clean. Definitely hydrogen the way fwd .

[@woodzyfox4735]

2 years, and no oil change is your Only issue.... Don't change your cars oil and have it run that long its motor would also take the same of not worse damage. My lawnmower gets an oil change ever year. its 17 years old still runs like new.

[@paulyboy03]

wondering if your getting some blow by of the exhaust water vapour

[@Hydrogenguys]

100% that must be how the water is getting to the oil, only when first starting and shutting the engine down I would imagine

[@AnthonyTobyEllenor-pi4jq]

If you strip down an engine at 100,000 miles that has been running on LPG it will be as clean.

[@HamRadio200]

the product of combustion is basically water. That oil has a high moisture content which diminishes its lubricating capacity thereby increasing wear.

[@BjarneLinetsky]

You cannot just switch an engine designed for hydrocarbon fuels to hydrogen. for starters the materials in the engine have to be compatable with H2, the lube needs to be compatable and the tuning of the engine adjusted for H2.

[@Hydrogenguys]

The standard/common materials can be used, just not maxed out for performance, sadly that’s not part this project scope. But we can change, the oil, piston rings, piston and ignition system for hydrogen gas. With good results so far too.

[@pir869]

If water contamination is an issue,we could make components from either coated materials or use better materials,ceramic is used in some engines and i saw a complete ceramic block. I have a Triumph 1500 spitfire and a problem among many due to basic engineering i have now solved is that GL5 oil,i may be mixing up my GL's,but the spitfire uses what are called yellow metal bearings. Now,yellow metal thrusts or gear shift components or in the diff,when run at running speeds and pressure the oil heats up,the oil contains additive to withstand the thinning due to heating and has solid additives like sulphur among others. This is now back to hydrogen,when engine oils heat up if sulphur is present in the oil any water contamination mixing with sulphur at high temp will create sulphuric acid,which in the spitfire was not good for yellow metal components,i dare say sulphuric acid contamination is not good for any engine components,except lead,but there are not many lead components inside an engine. You can run engines on a dry sump,where you have a pump system fedding all bearing surfaces,not sure how it deals with cylinder walls,maybe some type of ceramic molybdenum coatings,i'm guessing now.

[@John-xb9dn]

🤠🇺🇲 That is very good information. Thank you for sharing!

[@Hydrogenguys]

Glad it was helpful!

[@whoguy4231]

Agree with many comments about water dilution of the oil. Either vent crank case to atmosphere or use a catch can with more regular oil changes.

[@blockstacker5614]

why in the harbor freight are there plastic parts in the crankcase?

[@poprawa]

Small valve saver oiling system for LPG installations would help with valve seat wear

[@Hydrogenguys]

Nice one! Will look into that :) Cheers

[@N4CR]

Wish you had metal samples prior and after to see how bad the embrittlement is. It's a major issue on nuclear reactors due to Hydrogen and neutron flux.

[@kayakMike1000]

Neutrons activate aluminum to an unstable isotope that can decay into silicon. I would recommend avoiding aluminum from all nuclear reactor unless you really want that aluminium to crumble

[@92fsoakcreek]

why is there no rod bearing? usually a babbet material, lubricated by oil.

[@JoseSilva_]

Here where I live a lot of people work in Uber using gas. The engine clearly has a shorter lifespan than using gasoline. Gasoline helps to cool the components, in addition to lubricating them, reducing friction. Despite being clean, with gas the engine wears out faster and maintenance is more frequent.

[@brostenen]

With all that metal in the oil, it would probably look nice on wood stuff outside, that need to have something that shield against rot. Like a wooden sculpture, that you like.

[@rickybailey7123]

Timing set to TDC and run test again to get a Accurate Results !!

[@Hydrogenguys]

Timing was already set to TDC, I will be making a video soon on how to make the bracket and timing setup :) Thanks for the comment

[@B24Fox]

Looks like water might be getting around the piston rings and contaminates the oil, which then messes with the lubrication of the conrod bearing.

[@IamKlaus007]

The manufacturing, storage and usage of hydrogen as a "fuel" is in its embyonic phase. If we're going to persevere down this avenue, a lot more work needs to be done.

[@natterman2037]

You check the rock arms and springs for any play?

[@user-ts1fp4nm9y]

Why can't you cut down the crank and use oversized bearings??

[@1crazypj]

I may not know much about hydrogen engines but I do know about the Honda motors (and the Chinese clones). Unlike what one comment said, hydrogen does burn but very very fast so ignition timing needs to be after TDC (max cylinder pressure at about 14 degrees after tdc) Splash lubrication of big end means a thin oil of much better quality, full synthetic. Modify lubrication hole in connecting rod to enable oil to flow in easier, maybe file dipper arm from 'airfoil' shape to a flat on leading edge to create higher oil splash? Honda used splash lubrication dipper arm big end small 'push rod' motorcycle engines (49cc~89cc) since 1960's, they were spinning up to 9,500 rpm and were reliable as long as oil level was maintained (the later OHC had an oil pump, less prone to fail with low oil level) Engine needs to be run long enough to maintain temperature over 100deg centigrade over entire surface (true of any internal combustion engine, 150~18-c is 'better') From what I remember, even 'cheap' automotive oils are OK to around 320 deg C although oil change interval is vastly reduced as various additives break down much faster, particularly since ZDDP levels were reduced in 1990's

[@Nallebjorn1]

What kind of hydrogen tank do you use for the engin?

[@Hydrogenguys]

Hi, check out the “Hydrogen Gas Storage & Hydrogen Engine Tips” video. I show the gas tank used in that. Hope this helps

[@lutomson3496]

always intrigued by these videos..thanks and with hydrogen it takes more energy to produce then it generates keep up the good work!!

[@LilKing420s]

Did you happen to analyze the oil? I'd be curious to know the actual water content of the oil from the blow by.

[@ovalwingnut]

The Hydrogen is amazing. I wish my last GF was that clean Very COoL. Thank you for the video. Cheers from the US

[@Hydrogenguys]

Thanks for the comment, next stop… the engine rebuild 🫡

[@Frankendell]

What kind of use did this engine get? Hourly intervals, total hours in the year? Is this just one oil change for the two years?

[@fogit4668]

Looks like you need a high zinc oil. Synthetic PAO would be best.

[@ProblemChild-xk7ix]

It looks like it needs more timing from the spark plug straps.

[@michaelreed8873]

I just remembering years ago when Ford motor was going hydrogen in its big vans the engines needed smoother and harder valve seats to handle the seal! H2 atom is so fricken small.

[@milek124]

On this engine, always con rod was fail. This engine has shitty lubrication of that bearing. Otherparts will be work much longer, but connection rod always fail first.

[@GORT70]

The two problems with hydrogen are producing it-you need nuclear-and storing it. It’s either cryogenic liquid or high pressure gas. Neither is suitable for consumer use.

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

Hydrogen is already used by consumers in the current gas networks (mixed with fossile gas), in your gas fired ovens and heaters. The consumer can tank it as safe as petrol into the cars. Otherwise, consumers should never play around with anything flammable, gas or liquid or powder outside the designated use.

[@jacobswell2533]

AND YES... this engine is splash oiled... you really need to add an oil pumt and drill the crankshaft to provide oil pressure to the con rod...

[@allencrider]

A fine method of generating heat.

[@johnsmith-zy7xg]

It takes 50kW/h to make 1kg of hydrogen. 1kg of hydrogen contains 39kW/h equivalent of chemical energy - a loss of 22%. Using hydrogen as a fuel in an ICE engine, not designed to run on hydrogen, recovers about 30% to 40% of that 39kW/h, the rest is lost to heat, noise and friction. After all that, to then run an electrical genny off this setup makes absolutely no sense. You had 50Kw/h electrical energy (to make the hydrogen), you went through a huge process to run it in an engine to generate, at maximum about 12kW/h of electricity. The question now remains...Why?

[@butio1]

Coz no emissions of co2??

[@johnsmith-zy7xg]

@@butio1 WTF?! And where did the original electricity come from to make the hydrogen...?

[@Pongle1234]

​@@johnsmith-zy7xgThe Sun?

[@Pongle1234]

KWh not kW/h

[@johnsmith-zy7xg]

@@Pongle1234 The only energy from the sun, in concentrated enough quantities to be useful, is called crude oil, natural gas and coal...

[@SB-vb8ch]

Need to be keeping an eye on your egt & also valve clearances too. I'd be surprised if the valve & seat material is up to much on the exaust side so with elevated temps/tight clearance you'll burn valves out very quickly...even worse if your ign timing is off. As others have said det will kill the big end as you've seen. Interesting stuff though.

[@Hydrogenguys]

Will look into it, cheers Timing was set to TDC, I wonder if I can source some upgraded valves to deal with the extra heat? Will be interesting compression too, so will keep an eye out for the valve clearance

[@marktibbetts3799]

They don't have babbits or bearings on the con rod?

[@elihernandez330]

Gee this hydrogen stuff seems really great! I sure do hope hydrogen availability isn't an issue along with very bad cost per mile economics... That would be terrible...

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

the issue is political dickheads who likely invested private in too many E-shares. Hydrogen is ready to go countrywide, but just look to Germany where they are now starting to destroy the Gas network, after the atomic power industry. That is NOT done for technical or environmental reasons.

[@stephensim5839]

Is there some additive that could slow the burning a bit...like lead...but not lead

[@dustynz72]

Curious, How do you fuel the engine. Do you have a compressed tank of hydrogen?

[@chriscadman5715]

Oil looks like it has water in it. Nice, simple puller.

[@EbenBransome]

The splash lubricated big end is a problem. Hydrogen makes the engine behave as if it had high, Diesel style compression, and that means you need a solid film of oil in the big end. The splash lubrication means the oil will be forced out allowing metal to metal contact. (Incidentally I heard that many years ago Philip Vincent had the idea of running an aluminium conrod directly on a steel big end. His engineers warned him the oil flow of the Vincent engine would not be nearly enough. His test rider refused to go on it. Vincent did, and the engine seized on him.) You need an engine with either a roller big end or a positive oil pump feed. Water isn't really the issue - burning oil produces plenty of water - but an over cool running top end would be as it would allow a lot of condensation during warmup. This is one reason why it's advised to get Diesels under load as fast as possible after startup to reduce warmup time.

[@truethought369]

If the Hydrogen was produced by electrolysis, I think some water may have accumulated in the oil? Where is the shell bearing for the Big-end ? The grey engine oil is full of Alloy, and possibly some water? On the Big-end cap, there is a peace of alloy which throughs the oil around the casing, but I cannot see if there is a clear way of the oil getting to the Big-end bearing, this could be improved !! Also: the oil is throne up over the Conrod, where there is 2 groves to let the oil into the bearing ?!? Not the best way of feeding oil ! But, there seems to be a fault by making a hole on the underside of the rod. This, should be blocked off, in the attempt to keep a little oil, that manages to get there, for a bit longer ! I understand why there is a hole there, they think that the Alloy Soup, will stay there and ware out the bearing quicker? But, I disagree, I think the drain hole works too well, leaving the bearing dry !!! Just a thought, ?

[@Hydrogenguys]

Yeah lots of things to work on with this engine, water definitely got into the oil. Better piston rings, and oil circulation will be needed for sure before trying to push out more power. And upgraded billet parts, of which come with shell bearings. Thanks for the comment

[@truethought369]

@@Hydrogenguys Thanks for getting back, Now I know that there are shell-bearings, it would be better to let the oil in, by drilling a 2-mm hole on the topside of the Conrod. Maybe, countersink the entrance, thus making a funnel. The point of this modification is, to feed the oil to the centre of the bearing. This is where the most heat is created, then it would naturally squeeze out from the centre. The way it was done on that motor: is the opposite to common sense !!! Properly, planned obsolescence???

[@HoytClagwell]

That is not a drain hole in the rod, that is the oil entry hole. Lubrication of the rod is accomplished by the reciprocating motion of the rod driving oil droplets from the splash stick through that hole. The hole is positioned so that the rotation of the crank will spread the oil over the most highly loaded region of the rod bearing first and create a fluid film for the rod to ride on rather than have metal on metal contact. Blocking the hole would probably burn out the rod bearing in short order. Standard small engine design does not include a shell bearing in rods. They just run the rod directly on the crank. That is sufficiently durable for standard use because small engine bearings are relatively lightly loaded considering their size and the modest level of power output. I lean toward thinking this failure was caused by water in the oil compromising the lubricating ability of the oil, but that is just my own gut feeling. I tend to think detonation and over pressure would have caused other damages as well like broken piston rings, cracked ring lands, or blown head gasket.

[@truethought369]

@@HoytClagwell Well, that is left brain thinking ! Academic in nature, I am more right brain thinking, hence I found paper work difficult. But: I excelled in practical skills. As the engine rotates the oil extension throws the oil up over the Conrod, that is why You can see two cutaways on top of the rod ! It looks to me, that they must have put these cutaways there for a reason ??? Think about this: - "Where does the oil enter between the rod & journal" ??? If you are right, and the oil enters in at the bottom where the hole is, 'Why, is there cutouts on the top of the rod ? I am sure, that oil only enters at one point, Not two ! These splash lube engines, rely on gravity to feed the bearing, and Not sending oil against the forces of gravity !!! Like I said, in my first comment, if oil is needed: it should be fed at the hottest point of the rod & journal. Which is at the centre ! Feeding oil from the side, simply does not work well. That is Why, I suggested drilling a hole at the highest point on the rod, so that oil would drain down to the centre of this bearing point: then it would seep out of the sides, thus covering all the contact area. The HOLE at the bottom, would only let oil out keeping the bearing dry & hot ! It still looks like: 'planned Obsolescence' to me, but there you go, I am retired now, but have spent years working with engines, & I am always willing to learn something new. If I come across a Honda engine, I will pull it apart, just to make sure that what I could see was accurate !?! Have a great day, like me, & keep learning 🇬🇧👍🔧

[@HoytClagwell]

@@truethought369 At full running speed the big end rod of the rod bearing is making a complete orbit every .017 seconds and the centrifugal forces throwing oil off the crank and rod are so large it would be impossible for any oil to "gravity drain'" into the bearing. Oil is driven into the rod bearing spaces by the force of impact with oil droplets similar to way a water balloon explodes as it hits the sidewalk. The hole on the "bottom" of the rod is actually the leading face of the rod as the piston makes its upstroke and any droplets that hit the bullseye of the hole go directly to the center of the crank bearing just ahead of the most heavily loaded region of the bearing. I suppose the notches on the side of the rod could also be oil catching holes that catch droplets on the upstroke but they don't lead to any exposed bearing surface so I am a bit puzzled as to how they help.

[@ssplintergirl]

I wonder if hydrogen embrittlement or other reactions in the metallurgy are a concern in hydrogen burning engines.

[@Dannyt1997]

Its crazy to see how clean the engine actually is when run on hydrogen compared to fossil fuels, im sure you can work out any kinks!!

[@Hydrogenguys]

The internals should stay clean and shiny forever when using hydrogen. Looking forward to rebuilding the engine. Thanks for the comment

[@stevesloan6775]

Polished cast aluminium is the best reflector/refrigerator of infrared wavelengths.😊 It can remove heat through combustion if done right. “Port and polish” 🇦🇺🤜🏼🤛🏼☮️

[@MrShobar]

How can there be any "carbon build up" when no hydrocarbon fuel is involved? The oil?

[@robertschroeder9171]

I agree with the other post it looks like water in the oil maybe due to condensation in the oil reservoir possibly from leaky gaskets

[@cliveapps7105]

Oil looks like it has considerable metallic particles in it. Lack of carbon is similar to engines run with water injection systems they stay clean. You might have seen much less wear running a high quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL. An engine with a pressure oiling systems would probably not have shown any wear. Tapering the lube hole on the con rod would have an increased oiling effect forcing more oil into the gap at higher pressure.

[@Nedreck11]

I just cant help but think this problem will happen all over again. The problem is the material used in the failed parts, more so than timing or other factors. Perhaps using a different lubricant may be the answer. Hopefully there is adequate load on this engine when it is in use! I noticed the coupling tying the generator to the engine was damaged - was there a balance issue because of this?

[@richardcalon3724]

Do the valves or any other component that contacts the fuel suffer from hydrogen embrittlement?

[@Hydrogenguys]

No obvious signs of any embrittlement with this engine so far

[@shigatsuningen]

As I was told some 20 years ago when I started looking att H-fueled engines, I was told Hydrogen wears out steel due to chemical processes. I am not surprised it sounds different and wears more than if ran on petrol.

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

Hydrogen cracks steel, not aluminium. The modern high pressure hydrogen tanks have aluminium inside to keep the gas and outside carbon fibers to carry the pressure forces.

[@shigatsuningen]

@@unbelievablegoodio7176 And what did I state above?

[@unbelievablegoodio7176]

@@shigatsuningen what did I say? I confirmed your statement and added that aluminium is different ... so readers know that too ...

[@greychampioneast]

I am interested to know ....if the Exhaust is Water...what happens when it is Freezing outside?

[@1marcelfilms]

I mix some moly stuff in my generator oil. Im not sure if it helps but i hope so because its cheap low quality stuff

[@Hydrogenguys]

Nice one, will look into it, cheers :)

[@gren509]

How are the rings and bore ? And why is the Big End toast ?