Interview on the Smoked 302ah LiFePO4 Cell and What Happened that Day!!

[@junkerzn7312]

Really good to know that it didn't catch fire. The safety aspects are the main reason I use LiFePO4 over everything else whenever possible.

[@allynonderdonk7577]

When I build my batteries I use separators made of those flexible cutting mats. You can get a big set of super large ones to cut up for like 15 dollars. You can't abraid through them easily for sure. Scissors will cut them but....Anyway obviously the case of the cell grounded out in the corner. My guess is that a negative battery terminal came in contact with the door and a portion of the plastic was damaged on the corner. The positive metal case grounded to a negative conductor allowed electricity to melt the corner of the case. The safety valve did not operate because the container was already open on the corner thus not increasing pressure on the safety valve enough to cause it to open. Metal containers should always be lined. I use battery cases made of wood which won't conduct unless it happened to be wet and with the plastic separators there wouldn't be a problem unless something pretty weird was going on.

[@jasonbroom7147]

Good cautionary tale. Thanks for sharing this so those of us using these batteries and systems know what to look out for.

[@simon359]

I built my own off grid system, but I didn’t build my own battery banks, just bought well known companies batteries. From watching others build their own battery bank systems, I knew it was over my head! Plus I don’t like all those wires all over the place.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks man! Thats all we wanted to do is share the story. Seems many others dont tell a sole.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Nice! Also nothing wrong with getting good quality build batteries!🤘

[@MattLesak]

What matters is everyone is safe and the house didn’t burn down.

[@kingcrimson234]

This is why only LFP batteries should be used inside a house for this. If that stack of batteries was Lithium-Ion or something else, there's a good chance the house would have burned down. LFP's will just smoke like crazy but you won't get a big fire.

[@davidb.5544]

They should not be installed sideways. You can see other reputable companies even warn that installing LiFePO4 prismatic cells in an orientation other than the safety valve straight up may result in the safety valve failing to work. There seems like there was another root cause but it may have been exasperated by safety valve unable to open.

[@ratgreen]

I'm not sure how 'wet' the insides of these are but I'd agreed if there was any sort fluid build up (I'm guessing there is due to the drip down the wall) then having them on their side might block the vent with fluid and stop it blowing like it should. That's a just my speculation though. I dont think it caused it but its not ideal.

[@ecospider5]

I don’t have any lifepo4 batteries yet but that is good information to know. Follow the specs on battery orientation. Thanks for the details.

[@leexgx]

The only instructions I've ever seen you can't install them upside down (failure of this battery seemed to be at the bottom corner as result of internal short, didn't seem like a venting issue) but very interesting as if this was normal lithium battery it likely would have thermal runaway to all the other battery's and they would have also got hot but they would have caught fire and contuned to propagate across other battery's (look for "my first tesla battery fire" from Rich Rebuilds with no bms or thermal monitoring)

[@AveRage_Joe]

I remember that video from a few years ago correct?

[@ForbiddTV]

@@ratgreen Do you think the lack of compression (apparently, it wasn't addressed) had anything with the release valve not working? Most LiFePO4 cells mention compression in their specifications sheets ('fixture').

[@realoldgeekster]

Well, Joe You better put a 4" smoke evacuation pipe in your system after learning all of this! 😂😂😂 GREAT EDUCATIONAL Video Thanks for you guys sharing it with all of us!

[@josesantiagosanchezsanchez3154]

Ty Jimmy and Ty Joe for sharing your experience, Great DIYers both of you build it or fix it ,not a problem...

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Mate and Appreciate that! We will get it taken care of!💪🤘

[@ciciedee5474]

Watching this reminded me of the time I released the magic smoke and how fast My office filled with smoke. I think I will be moving my batteries to my shed from my garage. I'm not worried about fire but it's easier to prepare than to react. Mine was totally my fault but when talking about fire it doesn't matter what the fault is.

[@mikeerstad3705]

Nice to share that experence with LiFepo4's

[@MrJramirex]

My guess is a cell overcharged, so it started bloating, that caused the cell's blue wrap to rip and expose the aluminum cell wall, which created a short with the metal case, and that smoked the garage.

[@williamvaughan1218]

Probably had a internal short that overheated the internal insulator membrane thus cause the energy in the cell to be expressed as heat. No bms can stop that. Bms can prevent what may lead to that but if the cell is defective or damaged there you go.

[@ahaveland]

Good video Joe, this was really rare issue, but my faith in Liffies is still intact. Note, I think the cell is still worth a few $$ for the recycler, when one becomes available.

[@nelsondisalvatore9812]

I find it very concerning that the pressure relief didn't work...

[@w8stral]

If you do a build, unlike this guy: Those cells were NOT compressed. To meet Manufacturers specs, they MUST be compressed. This helps the cells NOT rupture blowing smoke all over your shop. I did not say it would not happen, but the rupture pressure has to be much higher. Also when cells are allowed to SWELL, the internals are able to be fatigued as they now MOVE. You MUST compress your cells!!!

[@maxwellblackwell5045]

It's only rare because they aren't common. Lithium cells are very dangerous. We don't notice this in small electronics because they usually just get hot as they go.

[@ahaveland]

@@maxwellblackwell5045 I am surrounded by several thousand lithium cells for the last 8 years. No problems at all. Grand pianos are also very dangerous if they fall on you!

[@jehugarcia]

I’m not sure the bms worked…. But without logs we don’t know if the cell got way out of balance, he said it was out of spec that morning but maybe it went way out and the bms did not internvened.

[@jamaral5557]

Legend. My guess was the whole case being positive and possibly a cell with scratched wrapper touched it and fireworks on that one area?

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah its really hard to say without logs or being there when it happend. Im leaning on the same as bms read cell incorrectly or possibly the cell was crap to begin with.🤷‍♂️

[@AveRage_Joe]

We also thought that could have been an issue so we tested the case to ground or any other place with power and ground and didnt see anything so if the single cell had its case touching the battery cabinet, in theory it shouldnt do anything.....

[@jamaral5557]

@@AveRage_Joe Thanks for the reply, I'm just glad everyone's ok and also relieved this wasn't li-ion. I've had Ion and Lifepo4 malfunction on me. I'll take a lifepo4 cell smoking over a ion cell bursting into flames and exploding any day. Also, case is oh so clean and love your content, both Jehu and yours. Cheers.

[@MJ-ge6jz]

I purchased a Bluetti AC200MAX for my RV travels. I was doing test runs at the house with running various appliances for several days as if I was on the road. One day in the early morning, as the solar panels started ramping up, my Bluetti suddenly started billowing semi-dark smoke; it also uses LifePo4 batteries. If they were Lithium Ion the entire RV would have burned to the ground. My Bluetti only has 2400 ah and the out gassing lasted for about 4 minutes with no fire. Bluetti had great customer service and they shipped me a replacement unit in less that 3 days. Note: We all have lithium batteries for our power tools. It maybe advisable to store them in a fire box?

[@peterkavan8368]

I learned from my continuing education class for E-1 & E-2, that when tightening electrical connections use only 90% of the setting.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Nice! I havent heard that before!🤔

[@claudiuminciu]

You should limit the charge from the inverter, to only 55,2v(3,45v per cell) and discharge to 47,5v(2,96v per cell) This way you are safe

[@AveRage_Joe]

I think he was close to 55.2v on the top end, lower end was set higher.💥🤘

[@claudiuminciu]

@@AveRage_Joe i keep my cells at this voltage for over 2 years, no problem. That means that the cell was bad.

[@livingron9983]

Likely an internal cell short... nothing would stop that. Best to keep batteries out of the place where you sleep. My 2c.

[@andrzej3511]

All I learned was that there was a lot of heavier-than-air smoke, I looked at a blown LiFePO4 cell. The slightest attempt to find the causes of the event ... Even hypotheses. AND! I also learned that American firefighters have absolutely no idea about the types of batteries and how to treat them in the event of an emergency.

[@pavel9652]

I think this is a stretch. There are ten different lithium based battery technologies if not more. He said fire fighters wanted to tear it down and cool down with water. Obviously that would have caused only more damage to the system and property. If you think an average polish firefighter would do better then you are an optimist ;) As usually the tech progress faster than the regulations.

[@andrzej3511]

@@pavel9652 One thing I am sure of: in Poland, a firefighter will NEVER use water to put out electrical devices. The second thing I am sure of is that snow extinguishers are used in Poland to put out electrical devices (live or not). Snow fire extinguishers are very highly compressed carbon dioxide, which during use cools down so much that it solidifies in the form of quickly disappearing CO2 flakes, very similar to snow (hence the name of the type of fire extinguisher). Its advantage, apart from cutting off the supply of atmospheric oxygen, is very intensive cooling of the extinguished object. In the case of an overheated battery, it is an ideal solution, regardless of its type. Personally, I doubt that every firefighter in Poland is a world-class specialist in electrochemistry. At the same time, both the professional fire brigade and the volunteer fire brigade are regularly provided with materials on how to deal with products appearing on our market and in homes and how to treat them in a state of emergency. So I am sure that in this specific case a firefighter would use a snow extinguisher without hesitation - very popular in Poland and equally effective. Something like fhat: www.ogniochron.eu/en/oferta/carbon-dioxide-extinguisher/carbon-dioxide-extinguisher-5kg-b-mp or something like that: www.ogniochron.eu/en/oferta/extinguishing-device-for-lithium-battery/ver-dis-20x And in general, the owner of the installation should ensure that he has the right fire extinguishing equipment: luck favors the prepared! In Poland, there is a LEGAL OBLIGATION to have such equipment. I know for sure that it applies to both PV installations and batteries.

[@adichici]

Take care to take only from secure sources. In my case the battery sold like new but find the code erased with laser and rewrite it. After a year happen the explosion followed by fire.

[@oze-bikes4life663]

An informative & well made upload, Cheers 🍻 He should follow your logic & built himself a Thermostate controlled smoke venting system, incorporating a couple of 120mm extracting fans, personally I would install a 80 - 100mm flexible duct with inline fans for venting. The extraction system should operates on mains AC, as he works 30mins from his house, saves smoke damaging residue or smell damaging room. Its pretty good setup as is 👍👌

[@felixballabeni4683]

Gracias Joe y Jimmy for sharing this video!!

[@GapRecordingsNamibia]

I mean..... Good catch not letting the FDP tear into those batteries though as it would have been worse, but yes, good caution, make sure to monitor your batteries at the cell level. I also do not bond my battery cases to "earth", this could lead to issues with arcing over if the lightning would hit close to the earth bar it could lead to other issues. My inverters and the MPPT cases are 100% bonded to earth but not my battery cases. I am running 15S on both packs, and this has one distinct advantage and that is that your voltages are closer than with 16s, but that is a taste thing I would argue and obviously your capacity is different because you are 1 cell down but that is the case with any S configuration..... Thanks and thanks Jimmy for the feedback...

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah 100% good call on not letting the FDP start ripping things apart. Could have possibly much worse! Yeah the battery case should not be bonded to the AC side of things for many reasons like you mention. Glad everything turned out ok in the end!💥🤘

[@davegeorge7094]

Grounding solar units is a bad idea because it will attract static and cause a path that might electrocute you.

[@twsconsulting]

I had a similar problem in the past. In mi case the cell did not release the MS, but, cell was damage. I detect the problem while doing maintenance. Metal cabinets are the best to store battery banks , but, you have to be careful since they have seems. Batteries expand and contract and they rub against the metal seems of the cabinet. Combine this fact with cell that have an internal defect, and there you have it MAGIC SMOKE…

[@AveRage_Joe]

Good to hear yours didnt release! Yeah his is in a metal cabinet. Dont think there are any seams other then the weld for top and bottom edge. He also had isolators and foam around cells. Not sure about the 2 outer walls tho where the cell was. We did check metal cabinet for potential and didnt find any🤷‍♂️

[@w8stral]

Why you MUST compress your batteries. So they DO NOT MOVE as they swell. This guy did NOT compress his batteries. Can see obvious gaps between batteries. This allows movement. Movement = fatigue or just wears through a sharp point as you pointed out.

[@ForbiddTV]

@@w8stral Yes, and his non-flexible buss bars are probably stressing the battery posts when they move which could cause internal damage.

[@TheColinputer]

2:05 I find that a little amusing. Because a typical liion tool battery going up would of been way more destructive.

[@Mack_Dingo]

Used to look like our garage after blazin weed in highschool

[@quickquote1568]

Wow! unbelievable.

[@destro513]

The general avaiation community obsesses over every single accident inorder to understand what went wrong and how to fix and/or avoid the issue. We should be doing the same. Few things ill build into my set up. First id have every disconnect in one location close to an outside door or outside, everything colorful and lables with directions to shut it all down. Next id have a PPE box with respirator, shock gloves, electrically safe pliars,hook and tools along with proper fire extinguishers. I side id have the batteries close to outside door on wheels with big quick disconnects to roll outside incase of problem with long handle to pull from a safe distance. Next id reach out to the local fire department to see how trained they are and maybe set up some training and knowledge for them

[@randylenart9674]

It's all good to know I have a fue systems using 280 cells

[@AveRage_Joe]

You betcha!💥🤘

[@geist4711]

mount the cells perpendicular. when they are have i small air- or gas-bubbel inside and they are lay horizontal, whe gas can come te the pole-plug and than it keeps warm and can blow out, like it's happend you had!

[@tomyocom5886]

He should have the LOGS.. Daily logs for the balance on the batteries. His history. Maybe you can compare day to day....

[@johnperry5960]

Great great video and interview. It's interesting that the fire department really didn't know how to deal with this 😆 also, can you ask the man in the video where he got the battery boxes

[@DAWB65]

I tried to put a link in here, but they are Tool cabinets from NewAge. They are the 24" Bold series

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Man appreciate that! Yeah it is crazy that they didnt know....it is a "smaller" city/town about 10-15min drive out of Omaha. Having said that Im probly gonna donate some lithium cells to them so they can have at it and learn! Jimmy is helping with that area....right JIMMY!🤠 Also Ill get the link here im a bit!💥🤘

[@johnperry5960]

@Jimmy Hooligan Thanks for replying. It's a great build you have there, and I'm glad that wasn't a worse outcome than it was

[@kenbone4535]

Love his jacket😅

[@mbu745]

Thank you very much for charing you experience. What brand is this burned cell please? I do have my LiFePo4 in the living room of my camper. I consider to relocate the battery outside, u der the camper. Regards. Willy.

[@snitrex]

The cold damege the cell?

[@torpemonguz]

May the main cable take some short on the cabinet. I seen many time the cabinet pics, I didn't see any insulation on the main cable.. I don't know, just I think.. 16:27

[@teddycunningham7568]

The more I know the more I want all equipment and batteries in a independent shed . No smoke or flame in my house..

[@ramKingh]

A word to the wyze..... install cameras for remote viewing and notifications.

[@JOHNG104A]

I purchased a reg lithium ion battery for my trolling motor on my bass boat and left the battery compartment open on a rainy day. When i picked them up i could hear water moving inside so decided to cut them open and about 1 inch of water and turns out they were pouch cells , one was bloated to twice the size. So now i hsve agm batteries in my boat

[@benedictcalantoc7115]

What kind of battery box are you using? Thanks for the experience you shared.

[@PhilippeCJR]

what is that smart temp alarm you have??

[@HybridShedIraq]

I have REPT package that 5 cells gone bad they ballooned like this but didn't explode.

[@charlesvrogers]

hi. tell we said thank you for the interview. "He done good"

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Mate! Appreciate that! He is reading the comments. Super cool and nice guy!💥🤘

[@iancassie9840]

THANKS for that

[@jetfu400]

The battery did its job. It didnt caught on fire

[@AveRage_Joe]

100% it did its job and proved to be safe!!💥🤘

[@maxwellblackwell5045]

I really hope that was a recreation or something because that smoke is toxic as it gets

[@basspig]

The overarching question here is what caused the battery to overheat? Was it a BMS failure causing the battery to overcharge? Or was it an internal short within the battery cell due to a defective manufacturing?

[@AveRage_Joe]

We have been leaning more on a bad cell lately. Bms works for all faults.

[@basspig]

@@AveRage_Joe wow.. scary. Was it damaged in shipping and then installed (dents in the casing)?

[@AveRage_Joe]

No dents, dings or scratches💁‍♂️ Were gonna tear open that cell....to see what we can see. Doubt well beable to find anything in there at this point but why not.

[@basspig]

@@AveRage_Joe I'll be interested to find out what caused it to overheat. My first of three 16S Lifepo4 battery packs had one cell that I noticed was running quite warm while the others were cold to the touch. I was in the process of moving all the batteries into a new steel cabinet when I noticed the one warm cell. I swapped it out for another cell and put the pack into service, but that one cell has me wondering how many other cells might go bad? I'm supposed to expect 20+ years of service with 130 cycles / year but these battery failures raise concerns.

[@howardescoffery4950]

One more thing, see if you can get a report from the fire department just to see what they file.

[@plojm123]

What was the name of that wifi device that's can handle full amperage disconnect of his whole system

[@quattrohead]

Looking at his build quality, I am not surprised sorry to say.

[@ursodermatt8809]

ah yes, the wiring could definitively be better. but that is why average joe is there, probably.

[@ratgreen]

What's wrong with it?

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@ratgreen hi, 1) the connectors between the battery terminals have no insulation, a lot of blank metal is exposed. 2) the bms wires randomly touching those blank exposed connectors. 3) the coiled up left over bms wires just lying on top of the cells. i also suspect the cells were forced into the metal cases, noticing all the peeled off paint flakes on the bottom of the case.

[@frederick6008]

Kids smokin dope in garage.

[@coreydean9277]

WHere are the links to the lifepo4 cells he was referring to in the video?

[@teemum.9023]

What did the manufacturer say?

[@SenatorPerry]

Your video should be bounced against Off-Grid Garage who just said the batteries shouldn't be fixed/compressed...

[@Zorlig]

Yeah best I can tell it's probably because it's not compressed, some crystal structure built up until it broke through one of the layers and shorted.

[@charleserickson7503]

Hi there .Charles in Zuid Africa only one question. Shudent those cells be standing upright?

[@ursodermatt8809]

no. but personally i would have them upright too.

[@freeenergy]

I think the problem is already in the package, because of thenut wrench is not torqued

[@kevinmills5293]

Another KZbinr, Projects in Paradise, reported a similar incident with a string of battle born 12v batteries. The video was pulled and we didn’t get to find out what happened.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Interesting! Never heard of that Channel. Any good? Will have to lookem up! Side note- usually when a video is "pulled"(by owner) is because they realized they sounded like a whiny b!+

[@kevinmills5293]

@@AveRage_Joe in this case the poster was asked to pull the video by the battery owner. Battle born were replacing the batteries FOC I believe and I suspect the battery owner didn’t want to upset them with bad publicly.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Oh ok good to hear they replaced the batteries! That is ALWAYS a good thing!

[@offgridwanabe]

I had one blow but I am using 26650 123 batteries. Question was the cell that burnt the last or the first in the series seems those are the ones that overcharge just a thought.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Nice! The cell was #5 in the series I believe but yeah you are correct. Ive seen the first or last always a lil different in charge.🤘

[@volvo09]

His setup looks like the casing of the cells is allowed to touch the metal walls of the enclosure. The cells appear insulated from one another, but not where they contact the sides of the metal enclosure. Looks like the back of the battery casing was the hot spot from a short. Isn't the casing on some of these cells not isolated? I've seen tests showing it is, but I believe I've also seen warnings that it is not. I've seen similar failures where the exact same thing happened, and it's always in a conductive case, and there is always an extremely burnt spot on the case of the battery and a burnt spot on the shelf where it shorted out. I saw this same failure in a new diy RV setup and you could also see exactly where the case was rubbing a metal rail and the thin tape covering the cell was penetrated. Just that one cell went up in smoke and you could see the melted case where it contacted.

[@justinjja2]

@@volvo09 My LF280K cells show a couple thousand ohms between the terminals and the case. Worst case you are talking about a couple watts, not enough to over heat the battery directly, But enough to get the cells out of balance eventually.

[@ecospider5]

I really don’t like how people setup the bms for grade B cells and used cells. I have 6Kwh of used cells I can connect to my critical loads panel inverter. But I don’t have them connected all the time. That way I’m always aware when they are charging. Most the time I only charge them part way (4.1 volts per cell) to be extra safe. And when they are done charging I check each battery bank with a multimeter. If I was going to build a system that was on all the time and I had to trust the bms to keep things safe I would use matched grade A cells.

[@taj-ma-haul9094]

Like# 882 - frightening... Sounds like a bad cell?

[@optionstrader9637]

For some reason im thinking these should be bolted together tight/compressed slightly ill have to verify my thought

[@solarjeff8462]

Nice system. Where did you get your battery boxes?

[@DAWB65]

Thanks. Glad you got something out of the video. They are tool cabinets from NewAge 24"

[@aspendell209]

Wow Joe, you're putting Marvel Studios to shame with those awesome special effects! I'm assuming you didn't blow up another battery to reenact the incident 😉

[@theoffgridtravelers7316]

Do you know what brand of batter box that is?

[@AveRage_Joe]

He posted it in the comments from others wanting to know as well.

[@andreidanim]

Why don't you use a Shelly plus with a Shelly Add-on with temperature sensors to monitor the temperature of your baterries? Maybe it will save you a headache. Have a good day.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah he added a few temp sensors in the boxes after the event to alert him on his phone if temps go up!💥🤘

[@kevinmills5293]

I was thinking maybe an IR webcam

[@AveRage_Joe]

My mind went to Internal Resistance Camera.....😲😆

[@jcc777]

I would be interested in an autopsy to see what the root cause was

[@DanBurgaud]

maybe due to bad BMS did not shut off charging when said particular cell exceeded 3.65V

[@AveRage_Joe]

We also thought about that but have tested it many times to make sure and every time......it works as it should!💁‍♂️🤘

[@DanBurgaud]

​@@AveRage_Joe so... he lucked out randomly got a bad cell...

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thats what were thinking now.

[@TheJensss]

This is why batteries ideally should be placed in a firesafe and well insulated "building" next tou your house, and not in the house.

[@davidrobertson1980]

Man I missed your channel, it's been like 2 years, stupid YT not recommending :|

[@AveRage_Joe]

Well Welcome back and I missed you!🤠 Yeah seems like YT does that A Lot! How ya been?

[@DAWB65]

That guy looks like he needs a bigger Hoody. 😂

[@RobinRastle]

Well its good to report this incident BUT WE DONT KNOW WHY. This should be a wake up call to the solar industry's safe working practice because it is still too new and amateurish (ie not properly codified with regs). Yes you have UL/ETL but its advisory and your insurance will not cover unless you conform to Inspection. Different States have different compliance codes in Urban areas. You will carry third party liability for injury and damage - as Clint said "Do you feel lucky - punk" It should clearly be mandatory to keep Lithium energy storage systems in a fire resistant outhouse complete with an emergency disconnect fused switch rated for full AIC (20kA dc). The Dude's system looks very "Smart - how I hate that word - to me it means lets confuse the dummy and sell him unreliable kids toys from the PRC" but he is the only one who knows how to work his custom system, not his OH or the fire dept presented with a smoking battery.

[@wasifsyed1085]

Experienced similar situation of smoking then fire. But the cells were outside. The charge controller was on the fire first and then lithium iron phosphate cells did burn. Mine were CALB plastic casing. I noticed my cells were randomly shorting so I removed those cells. I did not have a BMS. But I have heard BMS dont protect your system if charge controller dumps 100+ voltage to battery. Yes the Mosfets has a peak voltage rating and they fail. You need a Overvoltage protection relay that monitors voltage and shuts off with high voltage. Please put all this away in a power house or shed away from main dwelling. These are chinese made non UL devices. So they can go catch fire for faulty components.

[@mwint1982]

Yikes 😫

[@zxrjimmy1]

Ant bms after spending that money on system, #stupid

[@bluetrepidation]

Vape nation! 😂

[@teemum.9023]

Joe is hypercritical or depressive

[@garnettsand7418]

hype it to new low take 30 days OFF

[@ambersmith6517]

JOE this is ben i was very excited for the first few min of your video I thought you was using you God our father given talent Do you not understand what i told you about your hot rod trip to the store video Do you not know God your father has given a special gift! Do your battery stuff along with mixed in comedy skits If you stay humble prey about it this channel will grow and be a income for you First off i hope you know truth about Jesus if not you most likely will not find it at all most ALL churches The meaning of gospel is good news Is it good news that you have to have a stick up your but cant do this have to do that or your going to hell If thats what you have heard you have not heard the truth The truth is there is NOT ONE with out sin Not one person besides Jesus has ever been able to keep the moses law God is fair and just and there is a penalty for sin If he let some by with it then he would be like our judges politicians The penalty for sin is death The good news is God so loved you and me so much he paid that sin dept for us if we just believe on him Its so simple a babe will get it We repent wich means turn around the way we think from not believing to believing in him Its like drowning you cant swim the hero or savior saves you for free cost you nothing because he is good not because we are good Doing anything trying to earn your own way is like dirty rags to him Like spitting in his face Like bragging after some one pulled you out from drowning that you helped or did not need help God jesus holy spirit is three names for the same God they are ONE After being saved you WILL still sin but you fill bad about it and just like a good dad father god helps you overcome your sin over time after your saved You are a son of God and not one slips threw his hands Understand your forgiven for past present and future sin and your in his hands What he starts he WILL finish God sets you free and you are free indeed It truly is that awesome The more truth about your father you learn the better it gets We are HIS children when saved He is the king of kings creator of all things Ok now what dose every little girl pretend and wants to be think about that thats how good father is Every thing i wrote is in the bible i can give you ever verse Or google it but be careful of men wanting to ad to it or just ignorant of the truth Be Careful of churches they need members READ IT YOUR self Jesus said test ALL things for your self dont believe me or ANYONE else read it ask God to lead you to ALL truths Dont fall for law after set free many amost all dont read it them selfs thats why every one is fooled That is the most importan thing But after that i know you have what it takes to have a big youtube channel You need your comdy skits in your videos Have you seen the lawn mower fixing channel Tarel guy that wares buba teeth your so much better than him I do like his channel you whould to as corny as it is lol Joe YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!

[@ambersmith6517]

i think you would get a bunch of views on a video showing how to build a big low freq inverter dirt cheap Finding or making and mounting the tranny pcb board choke along with getting powr in ac out of box is WAY HARDER than building the inverter If you just put it together on your bench no box and tested it like that you could have it together in a few hours I have a brand new 24 mosfet china inverter board here they come with all the components already soldered on them You can use it if you decide to keep it you can order me another or just send it back to me when your done I have built alot of these some have been running 24/7 for years now none have blowed up The 24 mosfet ones are supposed to be good for 10k The ones i have built have never been over 6 or7k maybe higher but just a min or two I have a bunch of extra mosfets and totem pole drivers extra egs002s I would love to see you try to blow it up would gladly fix it no cost to you I have seen you skills and it is simple you will not blow it up by hooking it up wrong even if you did i have all parts to fix it Shipping would be cheap on the inverter board and a choke if you dont have a choke You have trannys already Please think about it any way God bless you and yours

[@ambersmith6517]

that new board i have is the egs002 24 mosfet auto sets batt voltage from 48 to 96 volts complete all components soldered on they say its military grade on the ad lol lol lol i think ebay sells a few diff styles now i bought all mine from aliexpress they make very good tough inverters just no bells whistles the prices for complete board with 24 fets starts at maybe 150 bucks It costs you nothing to try out and make a video simple hook up tranny with choke on one leg hook up battery put a small filter cap across the output legs of transformer plug in a on off switch the hard part is finding or making and mounting every thing in a box i could have it up and running on my bench in under 30 min i also have a old scope that needs a part if you want it

[@chuxxsss]

Which pole was it Joe?

[@solexxx8588]

What's with the Blackshirts flag?

[@AveRage_Joe]

Its College Football team here.😆

[@chuxxsss]

Smoking.

[@vmoutsop]

Great video, thank to both of you, for making it and for sharing the experience.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thank You and Thanks for watching!💥🤘

[@chuxxsss]

I have noticed that one of my thread connected ones got hot, and the nut was discoloured.

[@chuxxsss]

New show today, with monitoring.

[@w8stral]

What they missed: Those cells were NOT compressed. To meet Manufacturers specs, they MUST be compressed. This helps the cells NOT rupture blowing smoke all over your shop. I did not say it would not happen, but the rupture pressure has to be much higher. Also when cells are allowed to SWELL, the internals are able to be fatigued as they now MOVE. You MUST compress your cells!!!

[@paulbarrette2557]

Great experience sharing there. Very humble person... especially when he said: "What did I do wrong?". Because we all never want to "be THAT guy". Bravo!

[@Self.reliant]

I'm glad the cells didn't start on fire. I can just imagine what they were going through with all that smoke. Glad your all ok and glad you decided to keep going with the solar project

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yeah no fire just SMOKIN BABY!😆 I would think 100% fire if I showed up to a crap ton of smoke for sure!

[@shawnmaker6974]

Wow! Great interview! Thanks so much for sharing the experience.

[@AveRage_Joe]

Thanks Man!! Appreciate that a lot!💥💥🤘

[@keithcress1335]

Really cool of Jimmy to share this. Thanks!

[@ForbiddTV]

A question I didn't hear addressed was did he have them compressed? (doesn't look like it) Would the release valve have worked if they were compressed? The damage and smoke outcome may have been the same had the relief valve worked. Many build their own batteries in homemade wooden boxes (like me). If his metal case reached 250 degrees, makes me wonder if wooden boxes would catch fire and damage all of the cells (wood can ignite starting as low as 450 degrees F).

[@Island.dweller]

Interesting.. I just ordered a ant bms for a high current discharge project.. For my home I have always used heyo bms without problems. However I'm still using "dangerous" 18650 s

[@offgridwithmarcusroenz]

Ahooo! I had a similar experience about 1 week ago. A charge controller switched the solar voltage through to the battery. Nothing happened to the LFP thanks to BMS, but other charge controllers and also the inverters were damaged by this high voltage. I'm looking for a system that will shut everything down if the battery voltage gets too high. So all charge controllers, inverters and so on. Lucky, hasn't burned yet, but was about to!

[@Sylvan_dB]

I've seen reports on BMS failures when the solar control sends solar voltage directly to the battery. Then the battery poofs up and etc. I believe in every case where this has happened the solar voltage was much higher than the BMS was designed to handle.

[@ursodermatt8809]

i am just wondering what brand solar controller this happened with. for example the midnite classics are supposed to shorten when something goes wrong with the mosfets.

[@offgridwithmarcusroenz]

​@@ursodermatt8809 i have 2 Victrons (all good) and 2 EPEVER. I couldn't locate the error exactly, but two of the capacitors were defective. After removing the two EPEVERs, the error has not recurred. Another assumption would be that the BMS of the LFP has switched off and due to a voltage spike one of the EPEVER has assumed a higher system voltage. But it was 65V, which is surprising. However, the Victron SmartShunt showed me 65V battery voltage (on my 24V system).

[@offgridwithmarcusroenz]

@@Sylvan_dB Absolutely! My 24V battery had 65V solar voltage when the BMS switched off and grilled other connected devices. Too bad there is no protection.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@offgridwithmarcusroenz i do not have nor recommend chinese solar chargers or inverters.

[@GoatZilla]

orientation is not supposed to matter, but... I think it kinda does. and always check the system with a thermal camera. if something is warm that completely shouldn't be, something is wrong.

[@Akum12345]

just a thought, why can't BMS have temperature sensor for each cell(instead of just 1 temp sensor) ? are there BMSs already with this feature ? May be one can build a secondary(in series) protection system(in addition to BMS) with temperature sensors for each cell. If the fault is in cell itself, still there will be an issue, but it will cut off the battery sooner.

[@BobboNaught-YT]

This is why I use LiFePo4. A freak accident is very unlikely to burn my house down.

[@user-dr2pg8fk2i]

What State is this in? Just flat out ignoring NEC 690.12

[@evie2920]

Rather scary but it’s a good job the battery did its job. The EVE 280k data sheet doesn’t say you can’t put the battery on its side. You can just get a problem in manufacturing where the battery can grow dendrites over time and cause an internal short. Here are some things to think about - probably gone over some of these points before. Only charge each cell to 3.45v unless you are balancing. Do not take them below 2.7 volts. Shock can cause an internal fault that doesn’t show immediately. You should not charge the battery (even once) below zero C. I would also look at your load / charge amps. I set my system at 1/2 C max, so you are looking at 280/2 =140A. At 3.2v and 16 cells, this is 7168 watts. The manufacturer suggests you should compress the cells. I always put a welding cloth between them for added insulation. Lastly, I am about to measure each cell temperature with a sensor connected to the terminal. You can buy these cheap on Amazon but you will need to know how to wire it up to something like an esp32. They should all be the same temp, so if they wander, maybe you can shut off the battery pack. Search for ‘DS18B20 Waterproof Temperature Sensor’. I will be crimping a ring terminal on to connect to the battery where it should get a good idea of what it is doing because the terminal is connected to the plates that go deep into the battery.

[@w8stral]

Those cells were NOT compressed. To meet Manufacturers specs, they MUST be compressed. This helps the cells NOT rupture blowing smoke all over your shop. I did not say it would not happen, but the rupture pressure has to be much higher. Also when cells are allowed to SWELL, the internals are able to be fatigued as they now MOVE leading to the overheating due to an internal SHORT. You MUST compress your cells!!!

[@kevroodenman3283]

cant you cut it in half to separate an-ca thid? there has to be a chemical solution to have in bucket??

[@frederick6008]

Q: what state of charge were the batteries when this occurred?

[@bentheguru4986]

The obvious short-commings: Cells on side, as others have already stated, should be upright (vents at top). No sperators between cells, that thin layer of heatshrink is not enough. Buss-bars are straight, no room to move and finnaly, the magic one, Cells not compressed and retained. The side walls will baloon long before pressure gets up enough to pop the venting valve.

[@ForbiddTV]

Many manufacturers are making vertical rack mounts (horizontal cells). Is there literature that says the relief valve must be in an upward orientation?

[@bentheguru4986]

@@ForbiddTV It was in literature I read a while back from two different prismatic cell manufactures but I can't find it at the moment. The reall problem with the Lithium battery topic is the many websites and forums full of DIY opinions and rarely do you see claims backed by the actually reading material. I know my comment is no differnt but put some common sense into things, you can start to see why vents should be at top (cells still operate fine in any position until a fault condition). Same with keeping cells compressed. For those who reckon cells are fine loose, I have about 48 cells sitting loose and yes, they are slowly swelling.

[@ForbiddTV]

@@bentheguru4986 I don't know, I was posing the question, but no it's not common sense that a relief valve is always placed on top, because in plumbing we place them anywhere in the system.

[@bentheguru4986]

@@ForbiddTV The statement you just made screams WTF, "because in plumbing we place them anywhere in the system" Let me make it a Common Sense thing for you: Sealed prismatic case that structurely is a very weak pressure vessle (flat sides and pressure don't mix, sphere is best pressure handler, I am sure you would agree). Now lets place a pair of plates (loose term for electrodes here) along with seperator containing an electrolyte insides and subject it to lots of heating and cooling cycles all while it is holding some of the most dense forms of energy storage currently and place it hands of someone who doesn't understand how fragile these things really are.... I sure would prefer the vent facing up to realse hopefully gases only and not chunks (by this stage, electrolyte is far from being a damp or wet liquid) and my vent not blocked by other things. LiFePo4 is a lot more tolerant to the idiot factor but you just "Place them anyware in the system" without thougt to the the what-if's if they get wet (destroy the BMS quick and cells either eat each-other (electrolysis) or worse, get damaged from falling or getting crushed, stood-on or worse, punctured. You do that with Li-Ion cells and see what happens.

[@markbrewer2153]

That's good information 👍🏻

[@AveRage_Joe]

Yes Sirrr!💥🤘

[@MrSsrt33]

haha when he said alexa breaker off my shop lights shut off on me!!!!!

[@AveRage_Joe]

😲😲😆😎💥

[@w8stral]

Those cells were NOT compressed. To meet Manufacturers specs, they MUST be compressed. This helps the cells NOT rupture blowing smoke all over your shop. I did not say it would not happen, but the rupture pressure has to be much higher. Also when cells are allowed to SWELL, the internals are able to be fatigued as they now MOVE. You MUST compress your cells!!!

[@ForbiddTV]

Also his buss bars could have caused stress on the posts the way he has them in the enclosure.