Interview With Former Watchtower Writer & Researcher (subtítulos en español)

[@Whol3NothaL3v3l]

I really like how the person doing the interview allowed the interviwee to really talk. Most interviewers talk over the person or try to rush them along. Great job! You allowed him to tell the story, which allowed us to hear it.

[@rosskstar]

I concur. So is Fifth now letting his EXJW past stay in the past? No new vids in years now. Ya'll be on the lookout for the hidden manna. When the cock crows is when you'll really, truly 'wake up'. Think of Peter.

[@brothercaleb]

I absolutely agree. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@rosskstar Hopefully he's just enjoying his life and still serving God, only w/ freedom.

[@clearlynotalways6476]

As i was watching this and hearing about his time in the writing committee I thought ... "this is why they don't want us going to college" it will challenge our thinking, make us be critical thinkers, and help us have a different look of the world. All my kids will go to college and more if they want.

[@MrEmiko29]

You've helped more people with this interview, than all the people you helped as an elder. Thank you. you became, an Elder to help some people, and you quit being an Elder to help all

[@benkopilow7079]

I hope that is the case Loyal Tangie. Thanks you for your kind comments. :-)

[@HiloSabaHassan]

@@benkopilow7079Ben. I related to so much of what you said. I would like to reach out to you with my own questions and history. Is that ok? Jaime

[@sachadsouza5569]

As someone who knows Ben personally, I consider myself very privileged to have him as a friend ! He is a truly wonderful person, with a sincere heart! Someone who values truth and honesty .

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for you kind comments Sacha. :-)

[@dezmondmiller9135]

Sacha D'Souza I felt the same about him just watching this interview. Very sincere person that I would be glad to know as well.

[@johngum7158]

Amen Uncle Sacha!

[@deedee-qf2ne]

@@benkopilow7079 Thank you for sharing your story, it was very helpful.

[@7X1..]

I would love to meet him. I my self from NSW this should not be hard.

[@low-w1p]

Intellectually honest. Morally impactful. Good man right here. The world needs more men like this.

[@dezmondmiller9135]

This australian brother being interviewed seems so sincere and kind, and loving like elders/ pioneers should be. This is sad what happened to him and happens to all brothers and sisters who are truth seekers.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your lovely comments Dezmond :-)

[@JamesRichardWiley]

By what authority does one man allow himself to become the slave of another man? By your own agreement.

[@gustavocarbajal4092]

0uiii77iiiii89

[@billyroland2758]

@@JamesRichardWiley But if a person is mislead?

[@TallKulWmn1]

@@JamesRichardWiley If it were presented that straightforward it would be easy to choose correctly. Deception is a tool of their trade ⚖️

[@AV-th7uy]

I have SO much respect for the ex-elders that acknowledge that THEIR decisions negatively affected peoples lives...that to me shows the genuineness in their hearts!

[@7X1..]

same

[@salvarez387]

I always studied but I'm not sure if I should baptized I feel rushed .

[@7X1..]

S Alvarez You have the power to make the decision, no one else. :)

[@salvarez387]

@@7X1.. thank you . I believe in Jehovah and Jesus Christ but I cannot stand for cover ups and lies.

[@7X1..]

S Alvarez so do i 👍

[@Mombal5]

My father is going through this journey right now. He’s almost 80 and the questions and lack of answers are starting to pile up. I am so nervous of what this will do to his mental state when he comes to the same realization I did. I felt devastated, anger, resentment and deep sorrow. I remember actually feeling physically weak. Hearing Jeffrey Jackson’s testimony at the Royal commission did it for me. It was as if I went into a state of mourning. But I’m young and still have so much life left. My father is near the end of his life and has dedicated 50 years of service to this farce. I can’t imagine the devastation that would bring to one’s mental state.

[@saffronhammer7714]

Life does keep getting better every day since leaving the cult behind. Reprogramming our brain with new and healthy thinking makes all the difference. Life is rich and full and beautiful--more than I ever could have imagined as a JW. There is pain and sorrow, but there is also love and joy and pleasure--all deeper and richer outside the small, circumscribed WTS world. All the best to you, Ben. Be well, take good care of yourself, and enjoy each day.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments Abigail :-)

[@thinkingman2020]

Yet another fantastic interview! I am so glad to see Ben has been able to work through, and continues to, process the deceit and come out stronger mentally & emotionally. It's also wonderful to see his wife has stood by him....this is unusual. She deserves a huge thumbs up.

[@cyntiazuniga6573]

I’m very emotional 😭 I can see his sincerity, my parents still in the organization and that make me feel sad 😔 I left the organization in 2003 and that feels great!

[@marajacobs-proctor200]

I was in the organization for forty one years when I realized the teachings just don’t add up. Many of the concerns you expressed Ben, summed up mine exactly. I stopped attending in 2014. As you experienced, I could not make myself sit through any more meetings, meetings where falsehoods are spewed out and no one seems to mind or even consider the possibility that these things are not true. It felt like I was in the ‘twilight zone’ and I couldn’t do it anymore. It helped to hear about your wife as my husband is still in and it’s good to know that you’re not alone in this difficult situation. We’ve been married for 45 years and this schism has made us feel like strangers in many ways. But he is willing to keep trying. I know of many others who haven’t been, so for that I thank him. I did want to also comment of your observation about the RC and how the society was not cooperating with the ‘superior authorities’, as we had all been taught to do for so many years. It dawned on me recently how the society was served a court order to hand over the records containing the names of pedophiles in the organization and they refused. They disobeyed the law, even paying stiff fines! Where in scripture does it say you should protect the identity of accused child molesters? I’ve heard them use the verse about not revealing the confidential talk of another. Obviously the verse could not possibly have meant to protect confidential talk relating to a heinous crime. If I told my child to not tell other’s secrets, I wouldn’t mean for them to not tell me if someone was molesting them! I was taught that you would obey the law always, only disobeying if a law was in direct opposition to God’s law. So it ends up that the contributions given in good faith by your average JW are being spent to pay fines that would not have ever been imposed if the GB would just obey their own rules and cooperate with the authorities. It sends the message that they do not ‘abhor child abuse’ as they say. They abhor scandal, embarrassment, and being sued. The plight of children and victims are not important to them. They fight victims every step of the way and show absolutely no Christian concern for their welfare. Anyway, you said you wanted to make a difference in the lives of others and to help. Please know that you have certainly done that for me, as I’m sure you have for many others. Thank you for the great interview and thanks also to Fifth for all his work and help! Please take care.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your lovely comments Mara and for sharing your story. I really appreciate knowing this helped people and also how knowing how much we share in common with so many others who have seen the issues with the society that you mention. Wishing you all the best too,

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Crimes against children protected by Jehovah? Satan at work.

[@petertocher6845]

@@JamesRichardWiley Nope, nothing to do with Satan. Just humans hiding their wicked behaviour.

[@juliechurley2716]

Brilliant and beautifully articulated. 💯 agree

[@jerryjohanan1940]

Keep strong. Hi from Plymouth Indiana

[@gildedingold]

What a kind and humble man. I remember when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, the congregation was so loving and it was actually kind of fun. I faded when I was 16. My brother who is MS describes the elders and publishers and they are so unfriendly and not loving at all! My brother and mother have pioneered and attended for 60 years and they do not have one friend that will even help them if they need a person to pick them up from the hospital. My mom is in her 80s. You would think they would have developed some good friendships over the years. I left because the last watchtower meeting I attended was titled, "You will know them by their love". I thought, well.... there's my answer. I highlighted the title, placed the magazine on my chair and never returned. I was maybe 21.

[@mericarmack3480]

I've had the same experience. After surgery I wasn't able to get into our SUV. My husband called everyone he knew with a van but no one could help us. Finally an elderly brother with a full size sedan came to take me home. But for many years before that I always questioned this "live." I never experienced it. Now I am out of this organization & getting my mind back. My depression is getting under control. I wish I hadn't waited until I was 73 to leave this mind controlling cult.

[@gildedingold]

@@mericarmack3480 I totally understand. I look back and think so much. Of my childhood was lost. But we have to remember, thank God we escaped! I'm so sorry you went through that. So disappointing. Sending you love and hugs. I'm glad you're able to take control of your life.

[@pg-jq7ws]

This is what a decent, moral human being looks like. Always seeking truth no matter what the consequences are. You don't need a religion for that, just decency and being a good human being.

[@juliechurley2716]

And that’s the TRUTH

[@saffronhammer7714]

I was also a JW who suffered all my life from anxiety and depression / ptsd / was suicidal. But since waking up, through therapy and support groups, and over time, I am healing and I can truly say it continues to get better. I am now living a good life now, rather than watiing for a future Someday.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your comments Abigail. Glad to hear you are continuing to get better and are healing.

[@PainoftheAncestors]

Abigail Parker I am so happy for you! Did you start a family?

[@johngum7158]

Fantastic interview Fifth. I know Ben personally and he is an amazing guy. Thoughtful, studious, truth-seeking, and just all round nice guy. I truly feel privileged to call him a friend!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks John :-)

[@sachadsouza5569]

Amen to that Uncle John!

[@victoriagolmehdi8506]

I love the sound of the birds in the background. This man was clearly too humane for the organisation and I am happy for him that he is free and no longer on the hamster wheel.

[@quackdracular7610]

I'm a simple man. I see an interview from Fifth, I click and watch. Great interview as always!

[@watchtowertrapsociety2328]

Wonderful work! I left after 25 years of service absolutely believing each teaching. Due to investigation I left and have never regretted it. I am now a professional Deprogrammer helping people in cults such as JW, Mormons, Scientologists. We have gathering of like minded people in Dallas. Thank you for telling your story. Everyone needs to add their story on a video. I have already added mine.

[@LuludarlingScotland]

Fantastic interview. I left the org in 1990 after I couldn't take anymore of the way my case of sexual abuse had been mishandled/ hidden/ swept under the carpet. Ben's story really was spoken from his heart. I especially agreed with his observation of the lack of holy spirit when it came to elders making decisions. Leaving the org can be traumatic for us especially those who have been indoctrinated. However there is life after the org, and I'm so happy to be free. 😀

[@estheremerson6015]

Lulu Mccowan I’m so sorry about your experience. That organization has done more harm than good. Love from Nigeria

[@donnyetta]

So sorry you suffered at the hands of perverts who got more protection than you by the elders. Jehovah must have been crying.

[@Descobridor00]

Wonderful interview, I noticed that he is really a man of great sincerity, what I find very strange is all the people who awaken become atheists, I am Brazilian and here the vast majority who awaken maintain their faith in Jehovah and recognize Jesus as our savior and just stop following men.

[@ShoNuffSoulBro1]

This awakened interview with brother Ben is the most profound one I’ve heard. I’m listening to this several times over to pick up on points such as the abandonment of the types ‘n anti types and how that’s being swept under the rug as it relates to how Nebucadneezer’s dream is formulated into the 1914 doctrine, and the myth of holy spirit guiding the elders and so much more. Pretentious, deluded self appointed ‘prophets’ who have illegitimately climbed into the seat of Moses ! ! 😱 Thank you Fifth 🙏🏽

[@petertocher6845]

Thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Those of us who are ex-JW's need to remember that the congregations are full of good, decent people who are 'captive to a concept'. After years as a Witness, and we come to recognise that it's a very succesful mind control cult and break away we find ourselves having donated 20 or 30 years of our life to this Monster. We've lost all our friends and family, we have no savings or Superannuation (Because the New System is nearly here), our poor education keeps us in low paying jobs and NOW we realise that we are mortal and we are going to die like everybody else. I was struck by Ben's sensible comment near the end, that information is neither good nor evil. It is just information. We decide what to do with it. Like any good cult, Jehovah's Witnesses teach that conflicting or critical information is inherently evil and must be avoided.

[@anitapatriciawhite1457]

It certainly restricted our growth for years after in not being able to obtain or regain the time lost in becoming the person that Jehovah had in store for us. Some of us do and some will continue to struggle unless they are willing and open to seek the help needed from the place we were trained to believe was evil....Outside the organization!!!

[@FluWorldOrder]

Great interview technique. It is so nice to see someone interviewing without being egotistical by constantly interrupting.

[@rayleighfrance9753]

Excluded Artists so true! Absolutely appreciate that about exjw fifth

[@sigilaudio6615]

Exactly what I thought.

[@slovenkas7733]

I appreciate the comment that he's "dealing with his mortality". That is so true. This is the only religion that I know of that leads it's followers to believe that there's a good chance they will never die. My heart aches for my loved ones who are wasting their precious lives in service to the watchtower. Thanks for another great video!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your comments Slovenka

[@franziskani]

It is not only that JW's expect to survive the end times (which they think are soon to come) but they also have a FIRM belief in being resurrected in case they die earlier or in case they would be collateral damage during the upheaval of Armageddon. Now - _devout_ Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Muslim, ..... may have similar ideas (although they believe that will go on immediately after the physical body has died). In principle, but they do not often muster the same deep conviction. The belief of JWs that either they will never die or that they will be resurrected for sure is tied to being part of the congregation and to be in good standing (plus even if they get away with putting up a good facade there is the idea that Jehova knows their heart, and they cannot fool him). It is no conincidence that the org hammers down the message that the governing body and the org are the way in which god congregates his people. Their is no "I'll do my own thing, be spiritual, and I will try to be a decent human being as well". One has to submit - also to the teachings and rules and demands of the society (which again claims being "ordained" by god). Other people (non-JWs) may say that they do not need church, many people have a vague idea / hope that something of them will continue to exist, and if they want they can do their own spiritual thing. Pray, read religious literature, etc. But then they were not indocrinated to believe they need the church / any organisation for that (or that they have to constantly attend mass, etc.) - and frankly their conviction that their eternal soul will go on * is not nearly as strong as that of JWs. * which begs the question why resurrection would be necessary. The Christian churches used to have that hold over the faithful, of course it was absolutely necessary that the population believed they would be lost (their eternal soul) if they did not obey the church. Christians even believe in hell. (JWs believe that people die, are dead and need resurrection to be alive again. JWs do not believe in an immortal soul.)

[@beninua]

Thank you SO much for providing this video. I have been disassociated for over 20 years, and I also had a rocket career in the organization being a conventional speaker at the age of 23 etc. you know the drill, but I have the exact same ghosts from the pasts where I had a part in someone being disfellowshipped or publicly reproved. I once made a personal list of who I could have harmed in that way, and that amounted to six persons, and I have also tried to reach out and apologize for my part in their punishment. Luckily four of them aren't JWs today and they all said I shouldn't give it another thought as they were actually happy to be kicked out as that gave them the time to think for themselves, and they stayed out of the org and never returned, so they practically said that I was just instrumental in their liberation and I'm happy to still have a couple of these as friends again today. One from this group of six was still a JW and reinstated and, strangely enough, he was the only one that was not particularly forgiving but rather pissed that I had divulged my knowledge of his indiscretions with a married sister to the entire body of elders although I was not in the committee that dealt with the case as I felt I had to recuse myself being too close a friend of this fellow at the time. It struck me as particularly strange that the one guy who was still a JW who should actually be the one thinking I did the right thing following procedure from the society is also the one who was still pissed I did what in the system he belongs to is the right thing to do. I never took our talk in that direction as my only goal was to offer my sincere apologies for being part of what had happened to these people and for sticking my nose in other peoples private matters that truly was none of my f..... business. I also have one last person of that list of six I can't find anymore, and since none from any of my old congregations talks to me I haven't had many avenues to pursue in my search for this last individual - and that has only gotten harder the last 4-5 years after becoming much more active in the activist/information work, helping previous JWs in my home country land on their feet when they exit the JW-cult and also giving public information through my website and through interviews and by giving lectures to students at the university in town, high school students, helping people studying journalism with projects where they have to interview different faith groups with some good questions for the JWs they will interview as part of their final projects, and that has all been very rewarding. But I could really relate to what your guest had to say about the thoughts you have about being instrumental in meddling in other peoples private affairs to an extent where it hurt them deeply and they could even have suffered emotional scars because I was eager to follow procedure at the time. That will forever be my cross to bear - although I am an atheist - since that is what sticks in my conscience even after all those years. Thank you for this fine and well presented and beautifully produced interview with that very nice and genuine former JW. Good work. I was touched by this video.

[@violetwaterford9381]

One of the BEST Interviews exposing the articles of the Watchtower and they do target it at a junior high school level and speak to the reader like a child....leading the reader.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your comment Sandy :-)

[@commonsense4154]

@@benkopilow7079 yes I need for someone to contact me in regards to meeting I attended I'm not a member but they are pushing it

[@francoisrochat2625]

Dear Ben, What does not bring you down makes you stronger and your life's journey is a testimony to that. God loves you above all, this is what matters. Keep on growing, shining and enjoy discovering God's immense love. Heartfelt regards, François

[@johndogwater]

Very kind, very generous of him to share his story, and immaculately moderated.

[@aliabdullahi1445]

i salute the interviewer and the interviewee for this story and more importantly the courage to speak on it it will help so many people! Alhamdulillah i left after 30 years mashallah

[@clivespendlove5993]

My emails to you, Ben, continue to bounce back so here is what I said: Hello Ben You strike me as a marvellous man, the way you have coped and are coping with everything you have gone through, and a man of obvious integrity. I was a JW but only in my teenage years (not born-in), although it left a long, long lasting effect on me which I feel I only fully resolved at least 20 years later. The other thing is that I went to work in mental health, became a psychiatric nurse, trained in counselling skills and in my last position one of my clients was an ex JW. I am now retired. What a valuable thing you have given to others in doing that interview, providing such helpful information, clearly maintaining your desire to be of service to others. One last thing. Different things help different people and to varying extents. For me, one of the most useful things I discovered - albeit near the end of my career - is the philosophical and practical aspects of what is generally now referred to as mindfulness. You referred to living in the moment and I’ve found that books like The Power of Now by Ekhart Tolle and, even more, introduction to meditation by people like Sam Harris, and the book Mindfulness - a practical guide to Finding Peace in a Frantic World by Mark Williams and Danny Penman. Crisis of Conscience was for me, like you, what sealed it! Good on ya Clive

[@rustyrobots426]

This is so helpful for me right now. I hope Ben is doing fantastic.

[@Josephinejefferies]

Excellent interviewer and interviewee. Full of in depth info, experiences and understanding. I left the 'truth' on my own and suffered immensely. I lost my history, family, status, community. I needed more strength than jehovah could give. I can't say I'm a better person for my troubles but I'm definitely a freer one. I love that this brother had such deep knowledge of scripture and searched constantly for truth. Well done. There are many of us who studied hard and tried to help others but were treated badly as a result. So glad it's over.

[@elisenieuwe4649]

I got a watchtower a couple of months ago and was shocked. It is indeed almost nothing compared to 15 years ago already and it wasn't really deep back then. It's mostly pictures now.

[@GeistInTheMachine]

It's quite pitiful.

[@RiaCottingham]

Awesome interview. What a lovely guy Ben is, and I’m so glad to hear how supportive his lovely wife is too. Thanks for sharing

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your lovely comments Maria

[@poon]

To Ben: thank you very much for sharing your story!!

[@willastovall1492]

This was the best and sweetest testimony that I have heard since I left JW.org three years ago!!! This brother has said everything that I feel so deeply. I walked away but I am still in an emotional quandary. I was in the organization for over forty years but today I am FREE from from the real oppression. My main problem is I still have the fear of addressing my former friends when I see them and they greet me I usually smile and say hello and walk away without saying what I really want to say - I really just want the courage to say "I have left the organization and will never ever ever return to such untruths!"

[@paultheoutdoorsman]

Hey Willa. Sorry to hear about your situation. It appears you're not disfellowshipped yet because the folks still say hi to you. If that's the case, here's something to think about. Consider how we might feel when those in the org shun/avoid talking to those that have left because of differing views. But how would it be if we did the exact same thing to them because they believe something different from us? I agree that because of the deep pain and time/things lost due to their orgs teachings, it may take considerable time and strenuous effort to not have resentment and treat them as we would anyone else on the street. For victims of abuse, I can understand why some never get over it. I cannot say that if I were a victim of abuse I wouldn't resent their org until I die. But, if it is possible to let go and say hello without any fear or resentment, what a personal victory that can be! I have suffered some heavy losses, but letting go of the weight of resentment has lightened my load. Although this means I wouldn't personally attack or hate their individual members, it doesn't mean I would keep my mouth shut if I felt there were injustices. And I certainly wouldn't hold back if I found myself speaking to one of their leaders! Although a humble person may not say much, humility does not = silence. Humility is more about being completely honest about yourself and others, and may require you to tell others the way it is too. If they are honest (humble) they will appreciate your honesty. If they aren't, do you really want to worry about someone like that? I'm disfellowshipped now and have few opportunities to talk to anyone. Perhaps you are still in a position to have good results by being kind to those you left behind and speaking to them with honesty and respect about your feelings and things that you've discovered that are very troubling. On the other hand, you may feel you have no obligation to correct or help any of them. That's fine too if that's what you personally decide to do. You might feel it's best just to worry about yourself. I know part of my excessive stress in the org was because of constantly worrying about others and not being concerned enough about my own welfare and family. Oh...one of the many destructive ways of thinking promoted within the org! I can tell you it has helped me to search for those that are positive, kind, respectful and most of all honest (humble). I wish you all the best in your recovery!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your comments Willa, sorry to hear you're struggling with that situation. I can sympathise. Paul makes some very good suggestions.

[@commonsense4154]

Will you please contact me and inform me of what type of things go on, I have been attending meetings and studying for about 7 months now and I have questions that they don't answer so please contact me and inform me of what I need to do, my suspicions are in effect already, there pushing me to join and do the baptism, [e-mail] or 419-901-3182

[@commonsense4154]

@@paultheoutdoorsman please contact me and inform me of what type of things go on, I been studying and attending meetings for 7 months and I have questions that they don't answer

[@valeciajones3240]

I really enjoyed this interview!! Thank you for sharing .. love this platform.. each interview along with my therapist has confirmed I made the best decision of walking away!

[@maryunderwood853]

Enjoyed this interview very much, what a lovely man Ben comes across as. I recently left the organisation after 33 years and I would appreciate if anyone could tell me how I can get support from the ex JW community as I feel very isolated. Like Ben said, watching other people's videos is good for the most part but we need human contact with like-minded people. I just don't understand how people end up getting support. I have watched a couple of interviews you have done Fifth, and I think you do them very well. Just need to add that I haven't lost my faith in Jehovah, in Jesus or the Bible, just in the Watchtower Organisation.

[@benkopilow7079]

Hi Mary please feel free to email - my address is in the comments, I may not be able to help you personally a I do not share your beliefs anymore but I can point you to some other groups that can help.

[@natek987]

I am more than willing to converse with you if you would like. Let me know, and we can exchange email addresses. I, like Ben posted above me, do not share your beliefs, but I am still willing to talk if you want.

[@maryunderwood853]

Thank you very much for your offer Nathan. I appreciate your kindness. I have been thinking about how to move forward with my life now that I have left this cult. I'm not sure what to do. I'm confused and angry. I think I just need some me time, at least for now.

[@pristineparr7509]

Please check out local meetups and facebook groups in your area. They are great places to get aupport

[@jaceacekalgoorlie]

Try ex jw on reddit.

[@nomoresecrets3065]

Thank you for your humility. Thank you for transparency and honesty. You have done what the GB and congregation elders would never do. I appreciate this so much. 🙏🏽

[@clearlynotalways6476]

I'm watching this interview and crying. He's so kind, honest, and loving... I hate that his marriage is being strained by the association. I've had the same thoughts as him. So unhealthy. :( Thank you so much for this interview.

[@benkopilow7079]

Marriage is great again. Therapy works wonders.

[@valeciajones3240]

I agree he’s very compassionate! So happy he’s truly finding peace

[@wideawake3958]

I love that you don't interrupt and let people speak. This man is very knowledgeable and a real critical thinker. One of your best interviews yet.

[@suchenliao2517]

Excellent interview. Thank you,Ben for sharing your story.hug to you and to your loving wife.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you Suchan and big thanks to Fifth for doing all the hard work getting it out there...

[@rodywithers3536]

Fifth, what an awesome and informative interview of Ben. So many insights and observations right from within the “local” power structure of the organization. And so revealing about the way in which the organization’s “researchers” do their work (e.g., confirmation bias and quote mining, to name two seemingly innocent ways the organization gives the impression of being deeply into investigative writing) - whereas in fact, the writers are mere puppets for the organization’s already established policies and teachings. Ben comes across as fair-minded and quite humble in outlook. I was moved by his self-reflective practice after he realised he and the other elders were simply ill-equipped to handle inquiries into allegations of child sex abuse. Thank goodness, though, the victim was actually believed! It would be harder to live down if an inquiry of the allegation had not believed the child or lacked “two witnesses”. I gave three cheers when Ben said the victim later went to the police herself and successfully brought about a prosecution against her abuser! Thanks for nothing, JW organization! An altogether excellent interview with your characteristic respectful and empathic style. First class!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments and lovely review Rody. :-)

[@dezmondmiller9135]

Rody Withers Yes. Organization always wants to make themselves look good vs. Having genuine Concern for the victim(s).

[@davidjrtodd]

Thank you Ben. Your courage in exposing yourself with such candour and compassion for others is inspiring. Your obvious natural intelligence is also re-assuring. Fifth- your interview style is so light. Your subjects get to tell their stories without any commentary from you. Your questions are incisive and draw even more the interviewee. Thank you for you work.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks davidjrtodd, I really appreciate your kind comments. And I echo your sentiments re Fifth. Thats exactly why I chose his channel as the first place to tell my story!

[@juliechurley2716]

Ben’s vulnerability is amazing. I’m sure you’ve encouraged many people. You’re a brave & honourable man - kudos to you 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@per-axeljonsson2717]

The best Interview with ex-JW ever. Thanks! The Tower is coming Down!!!👍

[@grammawpayton]

Thank you for another moving interview with a kind, loving person. I'm so glad you introduced him to us.♥

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments Marina :-)

[@grammawpayton]

Ben! Your story is so good to hear because it confirms the experience my husband and I had with WT. Being judged by numbers on a report card, with efforts to help brothers and sisters being considered useless. It's as if the company motto is, Well they are nice people but what hours have they done for us lately. And your point about the holy spirit, we constantly asked that bewildering question, how did this or that person get appointed - where was the holy spirit that day! Also confirms our experience that the nicest, most compassionate and concerned people are not wanted and get maneuvered out. They get squashed, accused of disloyalty, when they are the ones trying to worship God most strongly! --We were already out by the time the ARC started looking at WT, so we really enjoyed seeing those branch personnel and Jeff Jackson getting a good grilling. But I can just imagine how hurtful it was for you to see their true colors. The main thing though, is that you couldn't make excuses for them the way others did who just love an organization. ---Thank you so much for your interview, which i think will help many many people. Hope you and Mrs. Ben enjoy many more years of health and happiness!!♥♥

[@counselassisting6417]

I very much enjoyed your insightful, honest account Ben.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks counsel assisting

[@scorpio649]

I live in Boonville, Mo where Joseph Rutherford served as lawyer & prosecutor. I attended Boonville congregation where we had bully control freak “Hitler” mentality type elders... The worst being Otis Gulley. He bullied & persecuted my husband & I for over 20 years! He went too far when he slandered me & sent my husband’s elder appointment letter back to the branch... all without our knowledge. We pushed & pushed until we proved my innocence & exposed his lies & he was removed as an elder. My husband, son & I walked out of the Kingdom Hall after he was removed and never came back! This was 8 yrs ago, we are still struggling from the aftermath but trying our best to lead normal lives. Thank you for this interview!

[@poon]

Eye opening. Thank you for such a great interview!

[@Grimhim]

Wonderful story. Very interesting insights on Watchtower's editorial philosophy of approach and the gradual awakening of someone who realises he had been mentally manipulated for so long. A chilling final 10 minutes, but I am very glad Ben is doing well.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments Grimhim :-)

[@carlyw9014]

Hi Ben! So pleased you are now free, I’m a 4th generation JW and left 20yrs ago. I can honestly say even with all heartache of the shunning by our family and friends it’s still 100% worth all the trauma of “waking up” from a life long indoctrination and deciding to walk away from the lies, towards the actual “truth”. X

[@belovedkingdom]

Cliff the Fifth? 🤔 Really enjoying your interview skills bro! Very professional! Very thankful for you and the platform KZbin has provided for your voice. Keep up the great work! 😊

[@ShoNuffSoulBro1]

Beloved Kingdom : Great interview ? Profesional? Hmm, why is there a stove in Fifth’s background? 😆

[@victoriagolmehdi8506]

Good facilitator, who allowed Ben to speak fully about his life and experiences. Thank you.

[@paulkiddconsultingptyltd7356]

Thank you 🙏🏻 as a previous Elder who’s recently been DFed this video is very comforting and reassures me that my waking up is valid and based on logic.

[@diyguyawake8107]

Power! Power! Power! Let the evidence speak out for itself and it did! Great job on the interview,love your respect for him through your limited questioning! Thank you for what you have done for the thousands of us who have been hurt by the Watchtower! We will heal and heal stronger than before!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for the kind words Watchtower Whistleblower

[@diyguyawake8107]

Those of us that have served at your level , I was in Brooklyn Bethel for 1/2 decade in the press room and elder for a decade raised family in ,baptism overseer and service over,Watchtower conductor,etc know the devastation of the reality that it is not what we thought! I to had a 6 month breakdown and am in neutral now with regard to faith,it’s a safe place for now! Stay strong and again thank you for sharing!

[@dantoinettetaylor1663]

Excellent interview Fifth! What a great personality and sincerity I witnessed radiating from Ben! BTW, in the early part of the interview he brought back memories of how the love bombing lasted only so long when you move to a new Congregation. What worked for me was forming good friendships with one or two persons or perhaps a family who I clicked with personality wise

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your lovely comments Taylor :-)

[@hudsonchalmers6504]

You are repeating my story almost verbatim. I only reached the dizzy height of Ministerial servant, was told to step down, or be stepped down(Fired)

[@anaceciliahannickel5814]

Best interview yet!!! I’m so proud of you Fifth, you’re doing such wonderful work for those of us that need it the most ❤️

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments Ceci :-)

[@JavonDieter]

Shame...how does it feel taking sides with satan against Jehovah?

[@anaceciliahannickel5814]

Javon September for the first time in my life, I finally feel happy, finally have meaning and purpose. So I’m feeling pretty fantastic. Definitely not on “Satan’s side”, I’m not against “jehovah”, and if you really listen to what we’re saying, you would understand that. I encourage you to examine your religion as critically as u do all the others. And I don’t mean, what does watchtower say about itself and other religions, I mean do your own research and think for yourself. You’re not as incapable as watchtower would like u to think. Wishing u a happy life.

[@JavonDieter]

ExJW Survivor omw...how can you say you not against Jehovah😐...you seriously delusional...you slander Jehovah's name and the people He uses to proclaim His Almighty name and yet you say you not against Him?!😐...omw...i wonder what type of poison satan is giving you to manipulate yourself like that😐

[@tomdimartino7361]

I agree and I'm not a witness but a great friend is! I can't get him to watch these things.

[@lilianewess6842]

Thank you Fifth for all the interviews you prepare and publish....Thaaaaank you BEN for opening yourself to us like this.

[@catht9653]

This guy is such a good interviewee. I also really appreciate your interview style in recognizing that you don't have to do much -- just let an interesting guest keep speaking. Really wonderful. I recommend you invite him back.

[@normanshadow1]

Oh, it must be immensely difficult for him to have his wife still involved in the organization. What a kind and brave man

[@c.runpixierun2537]

Very informative, factual and enlightening interview. Well done! Many thanks for sharing your story.

[@dackjanielz]

Top notch interview, thank you both. Some very interesting insights into how the writing departments work and how Ben's thought process was during his doubting period. Excellent!

[@ariyahn.a3900]

Hey Fifth, I just sit,and watch these videos with so much tears in my eyes. Tears of joy knowing that l did the right thing by getting out. You have no idea what it means being a witness in a place like Nigeria, and all the experiences here in the United states that really confirmed to me that there was no way possible God's Holy spirit was operating here. I would appreciate if someone reaches out to me. I am so PROUD and happy for brave real brothers like you two . I am putting myself together to put out videos also. Thanks.

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

Each interview you do, Fifth, blows the previous one out of the water (in the nicest way!). Just a brilliant interview...Ben is so articulate and a typical high acheiving JW kid whose destiny is to self-educate snd get to the heart of things. Watchtower's machinations cannot keep a good man(or woman)down! Im so glad Bens wife helped Ben get help for the very natural anxiety, shock and probably grief he suffered in recovering his freedom of mind. Big love to Bens wife for being a superstar, too!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments Anna, and for appreciating my wife too!

[@whiteriver1453]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@saraabraham5486]

The demons that are controlling the Watchtower lulled people to sleep. Holy Spirit is real but Watchtower doesn't have it.

[@barrymorrison8013]

Bravo Ben! Thank you for your articulate and detailed story. Here's wishing you and your wife nothing but the best of times ahead. Good stuff Fifth!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks Barry :-)

[@beverleysaunders3969]

Got into a different church God will promote you

[@Alex-rv1mj]

Exactly, my grandad is in his 80s and has been a JW most of his life, he still hangs on to seeing his mother who died when he was 15 in paradise (he said only the other day 'i have this letter my mother wrote to me before she died and i'm going to show her this when i see her again') imagine how devastated he would be if he researched outside JWs

[@BrisbaneEatout]

Thank you for another quality interview, very interesting. Thanks Ben for sharing!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks Claire

[@clivespendlove5993]

What a marvellously strong man this is. His integrity is obvious. How helpful this kind of interview is, too. (I just found it almost by complete accident). I was a JW only in my teenage years yet that took me another 20 years to be complete free of it, so I have such a lot of respect for someone like this who was born into it and has so much more of his life and relationships invested in that ghastly religion.

[@netihansen3034]

Another wonderful interview! These are so helpful when ones world view is being shattered while a new center is being born. Therapy was my support in the process. It is great to hear that the marriage is still strong. There is so much to learn and explore in this world with a free mind. Thank you for sharing your process in leaving the Watchtower org.

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your comments Pam :-)

[@tinyaboo]

That interview was Awesome!!👍👍

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks tiny boo

[@tinyaboo]

@@benkopilow7079 No! Thank you Ben. I have watched many videos since leaving the Big O last year and thought i knew all there is to know about it, but your interview flipped it and showed me things that had me flabbergasted. It also confirmed to me that 1. I definitely made the right decision and 2. i was not alone in my emotional rollercoaster i was going through earlier this year. Thank you for your HONESTY and your inside knowledge and for sharing your story. It was truly appreciated. xoxo

[@benkopilow7079]

Glad I could help you get some further insight that was helpful to you.

[@antonioexwet]

Muchas gracias por la entrevista y tomarte el tiempo de subtitularlo. Saludos.

[@jwallaby7895]

I was DF'd before the announcement regarding types and antitypes. It was around that period that I came across the secular data regarding Jerusalem's destruction in 586....not 607. I couldn't find ANY evidence for 607..... (years before that I even asked an elder why we arbitrarily decided that Daniels words about the tree were supposed to have a secondary fulfillment. He gave me no answer.).....It was the same year I watched the Australian Royal Commision videos. None of it phased me at the time. I did my own additional research (speculation) and textual criticism (carefully selected manuscripts like the Sinaitic text) to back up my own beliefs. The watchtower programmed me to "make the truth my own." So I did just that. I was somehow proud of the organization for standing up for "truth." I trusted these 8 men based on the info they gave me to read. It seemed very well researched and very fair and unbiased. what did they have to gain from a lie anyways?......... I am ashamed for my blindness and for the amount of fear I let them have over me at the time. There was so much I would uncover nearly a decade after my reinstatement. I wasn't able to fathom a world without god and without a "true religion." I'm still unlearning all of this programming.....It's a lifetime of programming to undo. And you don't heal by just becoming a heathen. It's like being cursed. And afterwards (for a while anyways) nothing I do is good enough for myself to be happy, and no amount of searching or research is fulfilling or gratifying because it doesn't have that stamped approval of being 100% pure truth! I should've seen the "I can't believe it's not truth" guarantee slapped on this organization, like a bucket of margarine. What a manipulated fool the WT made out of me!

[@rubenb479]

Great interview. I'd love to see a video with JT and Lady C on this channel as well. It would be a great conversation.

[@pauletteforman]

Wow. Powerful! Thank you Fifth for another great interview. Ben, you are an amazing humble gentleman. I appreciate your candid reflection of your time serving as an elder. You emulate Jesus in the way you treated others; not like the apathetic judgmental WT company men who view people as NUMBERS. You obviously value the good in people, something that is foreign to the WT leaders. I'm glad you've embraced life the way our Creator wants you to, and I pray your wonderful patient bride of your youth wakes up also. Thank you both!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thank you for your kind words Paulette :-)

[@quietstormaps]

Your interviews are awesome! You have the best guests on your show. Thanks for your testimony Ben!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks quietstormaps

[@hyweldda56]

Excellent interview and interview technique. Thanks.

[@lisawalker1317]

Awesome interview Fifth! Also Ben you are awesome as well!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks Lisa :-)

[@deedee-qf2ne]

This is the best interview I've seen. Thank you Fifth and Ben.

[@sophiamartinez8352]

Fantastic interview 👍🏻👍🏻 thank you for another great job well done

[@orpheusuk8762]

I have a copy of a Watchtower publication from the early 80s (or late 70s) covering 'the danger of propaganda'. You cannot read it without smiling. They are - without knowing - writing a word-on-word account of their own practices and techniques. I'll dig it out and post it online.

[@lisawalker1317]

Orpheus UK you are right and have you notice they make a statement or quote from the Bible and then say but and the word but actually cancel what they stated first. They do that a lot.

[@orpheusuk8762]

Hi Lisa. I know what you mean, yes. I came to a realization that all the magazines, quotes, teachings and doctrines (i.e. Truth) mean very little in comparison to the question "do you believe that Watchtower is God's one true earthly organization?". Truth, facts words, belief, faith and evidence are all secondary to that one big question. It's all about the Org. Personally, I wouldn't trust them to direct traffic or sort my recycling bin.

[@benkopilow7079]

Absolutely Orpheus. Exactly what I realised when I read those articles - they were describing their own techniques without even releasing it. The organisation believes in indoctrination not education and they have even published articles proving it!

[@Wamaithamathu.]

Please do post them here. I need them to help someone wake up

[@WitnessForJesus]

I agree but they DO realise it

[@SHEERA123410]

Thank you both so much for this video

[@michelandin]

Mil gracias , por el aporte en subtítulos en español Ex Je Firth, sigue adelante !!! Excelente entrevista, y por ser paciente al escuchar y permitirle explayar su contenido a Ben!!

[@saffronhammer7714]

What a wonderful interview. * Your interviews are always so good. Thank you!

[@geeemale3502]

Excellent video Fifth as usual...and thank you Ben for coming forward with your story. Rest assured you will be of help to tons of PIMO JWs in the days, weeks & months ahead. May God bless you and your wife throughout your journey.

[@ericolmos7816]

Your best interview yet! Those who write the articles realize the organization is full of it lol! Very courageous to leave that control group. Well done!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks Eric

[@sisteray3539]

Great interview 5th! Thoroughly enjoyed it.thanks for uploading 😊

[@BALCACER]

Outstanding! Thanks to both!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks Balcaser

[@saraalcaire8802]

Exelente!!!! Gracias por esta increíble experiencia !!! He pasado por cosas muy similares desde la niñez con ancianos de la vieja guardia hasta el despertar como un momento muy oscuro estoy con ayuda psicológica pero ya saliendo también !! Teniendo mucha más paz interior y aprendiendo a pensar por mi misma a mis casi 49 años, increíble que nos dejan con una mente de niños ahí adentro !!! Felicitaciones y adelante esperando que la esposa despierte también!!! Yo soy esposa también y se me hizo difícil verlo a mi esposo diferente en las reuniones y no entendía la razón y cuando el me empezó a mostrar cosas como videos de Reimond Franz yo no quería saber de nada pero luego empecé a abrir los ojos y lo de la real comisión me desepciono mucho también!!!!! Ya hace 3 años que nos salimos de esta farsa !!! Muchos saludos !!!

[@leehenry5256]

Very interesting and insightful interview I very much enjoyed it! some people might be amazed at how his wife can still remain in the organisation after knowing what her husband knows and has been through, and that to me is proof that a lot of people are in the JW organisation not because it’s the truth, but because it suits their needs? when I was exiting the cult, there was a sister who I was very close with and she knew the JW organisation was a lie but didn’t care! She had been abandoned by her parents as a child and was brought up in a catholic orphanage. she had two grown up children who were also JW,s and were all in the same congregation, she had always longed to be part of a family and she saw the congregation as her extended family the only family she had ever really known she was not going to ever give up this group connection to be on her own again and feel that sense of abandonment, the congregation was the family that she had always longed for and she had been in the congregation for 30 years! Her personal needs were much more important to her than wether or not the organisation was the truth. Belonging to the JW organisation suited her and she was happy to play the game! Not every body is looking for truth, some people just want to be part of something and feel a sense of belonging, and they will do anything to fool themselves into believing it is the truth and will defend the organisation even though deep down they know that it is not the truth. I believe that this mans wife falls into that category.JW,s have their own reasons for being in that organisation and most of them probably don’t even realise it,The only reason we come out is when the pain of being in there becomes greater than the pain of being out, I suspect that his dear wife has not hit that pain threshold yet! Great video, looking forward to your next one,

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments JW Pest Control. And I agree with your insights too, I think you are spot on. For many being a JW is not so much about truth but it is their "tribe," their "club." What they are familiar with and comfortable with. A support group that meets their needs.

[@leehenry5256]

Thank you Ben! I appreciate your response, and i'm so glad that we have connected, thank you for your Interview, it was insightful and uplifting. you are an honest and loving person! Take care Bro and I wish you and your Wife all the Best,

[@joycefinney2735]

JW Pest Control It sickens me to know there are so many JWs living a lie,just to keep their family and friends.Surely they can suss out the ones who are like minded and leave together. I would like to know exactly what keeps Ben's wife in. I cannot imagine there are any who don't have doubts about the organisation.They must be happy being in denial of the truth.

[@leehenry5256]

Joyce Finney I agree with what you are saying! most people live their lives in denial, the real truth of anything is uncomfortable and hard to accept! where as the lie is convenient, and unless we can find something to replace the lie, that is better than the lie, then we continue believing the lie! Real truth causes us pain, so we prefer to live in a fairytale dream world, Its easier that way, and it is much more comfortable and convenient than accepting the truth......The truth hurts! and you can only accept it when you are ready,

[@leehenry5256]

M Night I couldn’t have put it better, the cruel mental damage caused to those who are born into this cult must be off the scale! and in some way there will always be a part of them that is locked in the Tower! according to the bible Jesus liberated and freed peoples minds where as the Watch Tower enslaves peoples minds, definitely not for the weak hearted,

[@nancyTfO]

Thank you, Ben, for sharing your excellent insight. I shall pray for you two things. 1. That your wife comes around and 2. That nobody abuses your very kind offer to connect to you via email. You have done so much by your years serving in the organization and by that very good interview. I think that you should not take upon yourself too much. Live long and prosper!

[@nancyTfO]

Very interesting! I'm only fifteen minutes in and I think it is wonderful. So many signs that the organization is not truly "Holy Spirit directed", just like what I experienced but I stayed. I stayed until I heard from an elder at a shepherding meeting that we are to "trust the governing body" and that was enough for me. I walked out of that meeting and never looked back. Psalms 146:3

[@phil6740]

You are one of the best interviewers. We know you are pursuing other dreams now. Continued success and blessings to you.

[@krystalsmith5218]

I never been a jw but studied with two for nearly a year. The studies were not actually bible studies, it was just reading jw material. I told the ladies that I no longer wanted to study with them because they were not open to hear my interpretation of the bible. Thry were very arrogant. They didn't even want me to pray in my own house.

[@whiteriver1453]

Excellent interview Fifth! I truly enjoyed it and congratulations for such wonderful story. I am very impressed with Ben. Thank you for shearing it!

[@benkopilow7079]

Thanks for your kind comments White Iris :-)

[@whiteriver1453]

@@benkopilow7079 You are welcome Ben. I became a JW when I was 15 years old, as well as all my family. I became a full time pioneer for one year within the congregation. After 16 years of pure unhappiness I decided to stop going to the kingdom Hall. When I heard in one of the assemblies that one member of the Government Body was desfellowship, I couldn't believe it. Ever since I heard it, I was very curious about it since I used to think very high about the GB. I always wanted to find that former brother, so I did and his name is Raymond Franz. I have the privilege of being able to see some of his videos, and loved them. Even though I was not, and I am not expelled from the Jehovah's Witnesses they started treating me as such, just because they couldn't convince me of coming back. One of my closest sister does not talk to me and was advised not even to accept anything from me or any of our family members that are not JW'S. Is is a very long story but, I am very happy since the day a detached from the Jehovah's Witnesses forever. Thank you again for shearing your story, which I know it will help many people that are emotionally struggling enormously. My regards!

[@dezmondmiller9135]

Yes wait on Jehovah...typical cop- out phrase which means you won't get things resolved.

[@benkopilow7079]

Indeed.

[@UJB123]

Yep. Its called 'I am too lazy to lift my finger.' If we were supposed to wait on Jah for problem solving, then we didnt need WT Elders/GB/MS.

[@7X1..]

A common coward response from what I've seen. elders love using it as a defence.

[@keenanwilliams24]

"Wait on Jehovah" means "You know you screwed, right?"

[@jangounchained5279]

Some money loan disputes ,not to take to court ? Ok, I'll wait fort jehovah, BUT CRIMES MUST BE PUNISHED ! RAPE AND PEDOPHILIA for example!! like WTF is going on in those FAKE congregations ??? 👎😡👎 PURGE is starting from Gods house - Christianity... Including JW....

[@franciet99]

One of the things I noticed as a non-JW going to a divisional meeting (can’t remember the name for the meeting), the speakers over and again spoke to not furthering educational levels. I was quite surprised by the comments and understood later that keeping people less educated allows for an entity to tell the followers what is “right and wrong “.

[@sro2586]

Love your channel. Another great vid. Thanks for your hard work.

[@ochiful4070]

S Ro )((((

[@ACantu-de8pg]

This was such a great interview, thank you. and please continue to expose the erroneous teachings and corruption in the organization.