Interview With LegendOfTotalWar - Total War Warhammer 3 Community Series

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Regarding The Terminator's claims about CA Sofia prepping modders so they can leave the game Maya from CA Sofia has provided some context why modders have had access for so long: twitter.com/qalice/status/1711008450610614620 A big thank you to Legend for taking time out of his day for the interview! Not sure how he does his late hours to be honest cos it was 4am for me (we finished at around 7) and I was D E A D lol. Glad you guys are enjoying the series I got a few more to sort out! There's 2 small cuts near the end sorry for that had an audio issue with my mic spiking up for some really strange reason again probably OBS being OBS.

[@ninsanity8184]

Really enjoyed hearing the thoughts of two of my favorite creators. Hope you both do it again!

[@erikc5797]

Great job! Thanks for the interview videos!

[@coolumbrella4376]

Really like the interview series the one with Bavint was particularly interesting to get some insight from someone on the other side.

[@pogo8050]

It’s so uncanny when he doesn’t introduce himself with “legend of total war here”

[@AliothAncalagon]

They do talk about a disaster battle though 😂

[@phallocrat]

It's even more uncanny to hear him complain about capitalism. Times have changed.

[@TheVenge]

"Legendoftotalwarhere" -- fixed :P

[@pogo8050]

@@phallocrat comradeoftotalwar here

[@Meekoid]

I love how legend just sits in silence and has no reaction to the cat at the beginning. Man is all business.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Legend has popped into my streams before I think he's used to my cat lol

[@sagaignu7399]

Cat is a fast unit, he is targeting it early

[@SiodogRehane]

He has already seen things that cannot be spoken off

[@RedaniaKnight-Elect]

he is an aussie he is used to pet spiders instead

[@marcgw496]

Here with another episode of “Saving your disaster pet”

[@Whoisthis911]

When Legend said "i am not interested in communicating with CA" you can very clearly tell how bad things are, and how much CA has screwed up.

[@tincano-beans2114]

Nah he's a toxic pos that got an audience doing meme builds.

[@coolumbrella4376]

Legends’ comment about sycophantic behavior being rewarded above constructive criticism really resonates and it feels like this applies to content creators as well. They tend to listen and reward those that tow the line instead of taking feedback from the ones that give them legitimate feedback and criticism.

[@DogKacique]

The domination mode was probably one of the best examples. Two big MP content creators with good relation with CA shifting to Domination while almost every single other MP content creator criticizing the mode to some extent made it kinda clear that it wasn't an organic shift

[@coolumbrella4376]

@@DogKacique Yeah don’t get me wrong Land battles still needs to be adjusted if it is ever going to be viable to grow to a larger audience. The work that the community has done with the rulesets are amazing. That being said, it starts to break down when the tournaments get larger and there is more money involved. So I think we all wanted a change, I just don’t think domination was the right change. I think it’s fine as a game mode and would probably make sense in a lot of other RTS titles but it doesn’t integrate that well with all the unit types available on the rosters and you can’t really utilize the depth of the play-styles or units available. So I think they would need to redesign how a lot of units worked to make them desirable in Domination OR just give land battles something similar to the cap point mod to get rid of all the cheese that people can take advantage of. Between those two the latter seems easier to me.

[@manpersal]

It also extends to a part of the fandom, some people will greet CA about anything they do.

[@TheRetifox]

I was really disappointed with zerkovich and Lore master of Sotek. They totally shilled for Shadow of Change, saying YES all the time is as destructive as being always negative. At the end of the day, if Warhammer 3 will die sooner, they have only themselves to blame for it

[@iamdopeasfcuk]

@@TheRetifox loremaster of shilltek yeah, but i never saw zerk being a yes man. where does he shill shadows of change?

[@GotikusIndustrialis]

The myth, the man, the Legend.

[@neildeeley4177]

The glitcher , the exploiter , the man who can’t play the game properly , the glorified QA

[@linhz9888]

The horned rat

[@viego5442]

... of total war

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

​@@neildeeley4177 CHEESE FOR THE CHEESE THRONE

[@Outside85]

The Manscaped...

[@djn6962]

Shadows of change was such an appropriately named dlc, as the changes in price and direction cast such a dark shadow over the game and community. Props to whoever named that dlc!

[@tanchristhoper3832]

And the next dlc also very concerning as if it is an overshadow, throne of decay what a fit title.

[@djn6962]

@@tanchristhoper3832the game will be the king of games that have fallen into degradation and decay, lacking any meaningful support! 😀 Super excited to learn the title of the slaanesh dlc 😂

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

Next DLC is about decaying, that's fitting. Then next year, most likely the "faction DLC" will be Vampire Cathay, they are milking the chinese audience so hard, they became zombified. Then we will have the "lords trio" DLCs featuring the remaining gods, Slaanesh and Khorne... I highly doubt Warhammer "3" will survive beyond 2024

[@Zomboy123456789]

@@djn6962 "Plains of Hubris"

[@devinphillips8085]

@@RRRRRRRRR33 you guys said this same crap about wh3 dying last year and you ended up being wrong. I honestly think yall are just delusional at this point, especially since the last dlc was actually pretty good and despite some people being upset over the price, it ended up making more money than previous lord packs.

[@Gonzlah]

Will watch any content you two post, together unmissable

[@vishk3216]

Awesome you got Legend on, great guy. Always honest and well-done thoughts.

[@biowiener7825]

this guy solely got me into total war and also warhammer as a whole, so i owe him thousands of hours of entertainment, actively through his channel and passively though the game and hobby he got me into

[@gyahahaandkyahaha1345]

same here. He comes across as pretty harsh at first even in this interview but then you realize he actually seems like a pretty nice guy he's just always very bluntly honest and has a methodical way of speaking.

[@garyscarisbrick8621]

Really good interview dude, nice to see all the streamers collaborating with things during hard times. Really hope CA can pull their resources together for Thrones of Decay and listen to all the feedback. And with projects moving forwards.

[@maou8253]

I'm sure the developers do listen, I'm more concerned about the money hungry higher ups giving them the ok to actually do something. I've no doubt the developers themselves were aware of these problems but couldn't do much about it since these things are worked on under a limited schedule and budget.

[@Inquisitor_Jeff]

Must be nice to still have hope…

[@NevaehCyanide]

@@maou8253 This. I really wished that more people would have this kind of perception instead of just resorting the usual mindset of blaming the entire thing as a whole, I do believe that there are people at Creative Assembly that do genuinely care about what they make. But we are now living in a cruel era of big gaming companies nowadays. Were passionate game creators are becoming just as helpless as the people who play their games.

[@WarAndHistory.]

thanks for pointing out the issues within the total war community, great stuff 👍🏻

[@HypaxBE]

To add on the technical debt topic, as a project starts small it's easy to pile on new stuff/code. But as things progress your code or structure can easily look like brazilian favella's. Especially if the focus is getting new stuff out there, rather then keeping the technical debt under control. It's way too often perceved as just a cost (because it doesnt add value to sell to a customer) but it's massively important to keep under control. Otherwise the spaghetti of code will keep acting up as soon as you try to fix/add/remove/... anything to it and will become evermore time consuming.

[@ronanmacgabhann347]

Isn't that the whole point of OOP. I just can't fathom how a company of CAs size ends up forsaking a principle of coding that seems to be absolutely hammered into programmers now.

[@HypaxBE]

@@ronanmacgabhann347 I don't really think its related of OOP (although it's part of it). It's rather because nobody knows upfront what the final product looks like from a technical point of view, therefor you can't apply structure for it that would facilitate it. You have to make due with what you know at that time. But every release, or sprint or whatever iteration, there needs to be done some refactoring work to teardown what was coded badly, structured badly,... because the vision has changed/progressed. But long story short, this reeks of people in charge that only want to see money, don't have any technical understanding or experience. It could also be that this was pushed so hard from higher levels all the while developers were sounding alarmbells and were just overruled. Funny thing is, this comes back so hard to these 'business people' that they will feel consequences everywhere. Yet rarely anyone of them gets sacked for it.

[@Jackalope-ko3dy]

Legend can now just tell people to go watch this interview rather then explain himself over and over during his streams

[@ragnarokivae6136]

Great to see you together with legend

[@joppek77]

I think Legend is spot on with the "technical debt". The product owners tend to push for feature after feature and eventually the short cuts taken catches up with them! Now they've painted themselves into a corner.

[@raphapablap2944]

Really good interview - one thing that always stands out to me is that in the trailer for the first game, they showed artillery pieces on the walls in sieges and I think it's a shame this was never implemented. Things like cannons or helblaster volley guns don't have much of a place when defending a settlement.

[@tramilton]

1:31:56 This resonates so strong this day with the Darktide Krieg skins being featured at the new "premium" pricetag (€10 used to be the highest priset skin sets, now it's €13.50 and it doesnt come with any weapon or trinket skins like they used to). And Fatshark's reasoning for the pricetag was because "they put so much more work to make these skins look extra great" (Nevermind all the clipping issues the sets have with themselves). And I see Krieg skins all the time, so people did buy it, plenty of them too. Encouraging the new 2900 pricetag (which already was leaked going to the pricetag of the next set of skin). Warhammer consumers are such suckers :(

[@thesilverbullet4524]

Its so absorbing listening to this conversation, two people who are so passionate about a strategy game, strategically communicate to each other about something that, has an underlying depth of emotional feeling for.

[@magicmidg]

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to you two discussing total; war.

[@AsgeirAakre]

"They have to release a potion of speed style update". -Legend This exactly.

[@coolumbrella4376]

Yeah they need to do a patch or two to improve quality of life. Would love to see a big patch that focuses on multiplayer improvements and one for AI and sieges.

[@nitomurray6137]

I saw this, and I legit considered cancelling my raid night on WoW to binge it immediately

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Nah man raiding is important! Hope you get some good drops!

[@nitomurray6137]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges Another reclear, another no leggo for my Aug :P You two having an interview is important too :P

[@mad_man_savage452]

My two favorite Warhammer KZbinrs I thought I would never see the day

[@RJWhitmore]

Walls should be a massive force multiplier, costing many more resources to take when defended. TWWH walls act as merely a bit of extra distance that hinders the defender from attacking the enemy... so they do nothing. The towers do some damage until the enemy gets to the walls, then thats it - and the enemy starts really close and has no difficult terrain, so that is quick. Here is what you do for walls: -Start enemy further away. -Put in difficult terrain, force them to either move over it slowly or deal with chokepointing before hitting the walls. Consider moats and counter play. -Use bastion (star) fort designs to allow defenders to fire along the curtain wall while maintaining the advantage of protection for direct fire. -Have defenders on top of the wall make attacks as an opponent crops the wall; have the attacker have a large malue to their defence until they have established themselves on the wall. -Have attackers that are attacked as they scale ladders (from both defenders at the top as they crop and from ranged fire) have the potential to fall off. -Higher tier walls should have a second wall to pull back to (usually located higher up on a slope) forcing the enemy to go through it all again. All of these should be possible with the current engine.

[@vexand6787]

Another great interview. These have been great to listen to and getting peoples completely unfiltered thoughts and opinions.

[@boyanpenev9822]

What also got people annoyed with the price is that CA already did a price increase considering how much the Ogres cost vs Norsca and the Chorfs vs the Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings. Shadows of Change as another increase on top off that.

[@shadowwill]

Naval battles can still be a thing. It would have to be its own DLC / Expansion (people who do not own it would still have island battles). A dedicated team working solely on creating the naval experience, balancing it and house keeping it. It would require quite abit of resources but would add another dimension to the game, its possible but it relies on how much CA wants to invest in this game.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

The problem is and I don't think Legend got what I meant because he didn't play tabletop is it's incredibly one sided battles even for Warhammer. Imagine basic Norscan longboats vs Chaos flying forts for example. Sadly Man o War died quickly as it came out because GW could not balance it in any way shape or form

[@mrhelzbygrad7485]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges Its a bit like how CA didnt have tabletop level misfires for artillery, but I just imagine 50% of orc ships just sinking themselves to be lore accurate

[@shadowwill]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges GW should be challenged (and CA), actually refresh or create something new and interesting. Just like legend said the balance will never be perfect but it's a spectacle game (sea monsters, flying fortresses, slanneshi pleasure yachts) that sort of thing. Or Venris can always do a SFO WH III Naval version. I don't think GW realizes what an opportunity this game is.

[@michaelbeasley9401]

Naval battles would certainly be interesting. Balance can't really be considered because yeah, how do you balance The Bloody Reaver against anything but the Heldenhamer or a Black Ark?

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

idk man... sadly people didn't gave a shit about naval battles in Napoleon, Shogun 2, Rome 2, etc.. CA silently tossed them aside. Of course, that was the "historical" public, their numbers are not as significant if compared to the "fantasy" public, so who knows, maybe this new public can be invested (I honestly doubt it). It would make more sense if CA makes a land and space engines for TW 40K, if it works, people will be hooked by the space combat (after all, there's a niched public who buy games that are entirely based on space battles). But that's a crazy scale, idk if CA has the resources and, most importantly, the talent to get things done

[@Ratich]

Man I'm so depressed with the Handling of Total War

[@Vernon013]

This was very cathartic. Love these two. Keep up the great work.

[@Psilocybear]

Excellent talk, really enjoyed listening to this while painting minis

[@Horsa-sr8oz]

Without a change in management I am not sure how anything will improve.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

I think the most hopeful scenario is if Paradox seize the opportunity, they can release their first grand strategy game with a actual battle engine. CA is at it's most vulnerable state right now, most likely TW Pharaoh will expose them even more. So really, Paradox has a golden opportunity

[@szmike]

@@RRRRRRRRR33 pdx.... :-D ... they are CA bros, but they have much better PR at the moment

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

@@szmike idk if they are really their "bros", capitalism incentivize aggressive competition, I will not be surprised if Paradox is developing their own Total War in secret (neither if they get bough all of the sudden, a big third-party injecting money), turn-based, real time battle engine, etc As for PR, it goes through highs and lows, the niched audience is aware about Paradox predatory DLCs, but some think this is a positive because they can play the same game for years, etc I am not a fan tbh, just like I am not a fan of Epic and their weird store... but hell, we need more competition regardless

[@szmike]

@@RRRRRRRRR33 I get you, what I meant was pdx track record is not much better than CAs... surely it's changing with time and new releases/patches. My point is they are different company with similar practices, which is not encouraging. Also their game engine may be in better shape than TW, but it's due to be replaced, given all performance issues.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

@@szmike They are similar because they deal with the same niches, basically only Paradox or Firaxis can impose a real competition, scaling things up to the double A standards of CA. X-Com is kinda double A already, but it's a different style of game. Firaxis has the money and expertise, they can use the Civilization IP to draw attention (either introducing a real time battle engine on Civ 7 or make a Civ spin-off). The key difference is the damn real-time battle engine, only CA works with this crap, that's why they are so accommodated. And mind you, if you isolate the "boardgame" aspect, forget the battle mechanics... honestly, CA is the worst of the bunch on this regard. The city building and overall management in TW games are inferior if compared to the direct competitors (especially Paradox, they are too complex, harsh learning curve... but their management systems are way better, their games are all about that)

[@ComfortingColourlessLight]

Glad it was the day of the longer video today, needed that distraction very much.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Glad to be of help my dude!

[@AshisME101]

I watched some of your other interviews, but this is the first one I listened to all the way through. This was great, thanks Nathan.

[@marcus3457]

Seriously, great interview. Two thumbs up. I do think CA needs to spend more time listening to content creators because they are in tune with the community, and they are also vested in Total War's success. It's a no brainer.

[@geherrit1989]

On the topic of Multiplayer - Legend is totally correct when he says that a succesful E-sport scene requires a huge playerbase. Most games draw in the players with a low price point. Noone will invest several hundred dollars just to join the E-Sport scene, WH3 has a strong entrance barrier.

[@christos-marioseftichidis4139]

Now it’s time for Heir of Carthage 🎉🎉🎉

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Absolutely love chatting to heir so he's deffo someone I want to collab with!

[@christos-marioseftichidis4139]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges just a guess in your question about future total war.. ROME 3 😂

[@lapsedpacifistrou5354]

I'm only at 31:21, but this was a great talk. Your different perspectives bounce off each other well. I like Grudges enthusiasm like "oh, this was a cool idea" and then legends pragmatism. "Sure, it would have been a good idea if they'd made it right." It's a good back and forth

[@Miaauify]

I love the set battles in Rome Total War, Ceasers greatest battles and how, more or less, accurate the battle start and positions were.

[@arasandthevolodkas]

Lol Legend was DEAD ON with his 4.1 patch prediction. Great interview guys, thanks for the discussion.

[@oldfart5981]

Great Book of Legends!

[@tjbonzai87]

A simple alternative to end game crisis. The game randomly chooses some factions to receive extra funds. The player decides how many and for how many turns dependent on how difficult an experience they want. The player never knows which factions this effects but will likely work this out when they see minor factions create massively powerful empires

[@dillonnix2]

Loved it, thank you for this one :)

[@andrewfernie3528]

Love him or hate him, you've got to give Legend credit for not taking the easy way and becoming just another shill like so many have.

[@stephenhartley2853]

iv been playing loads of medieval 1 recently. what a breath of fresh air the old engine is. aside from the crap controls and camera its a near perfect total war game.

[@R3GARnator]

Took me a few sittings to get through this, great vid.

[@williamford3605]

God bless it, this is the interview I never knew I always wanted

[@ikesimplekin8334]

This is like Sigmar meeting Teclis

[@eduardoribeiroucv9630]

Teclis is not even close ins awesomeness as Sigmar

[@CrimsonUltrafox]

Our lord Legend is actually the Great Horned Rat, yes-yes.

[@Vernon013]

Legend might be singlehandedly working to save the mental health of the WHTW community.

[@coolumbrella4376]

Man Baldur’s Gate 3 is such an incredible game and the speed they launch meaningful patches is amazing. Also, they actually listen to player feedback and make adjustments based on the feedback. So jealous of what Larian does for their playerbase compared to CA.

[@mandu6665]

Larian shipped an unfinished buggy game in order to cash in and people need to acknowledge that. I wish my playthroughs of BG3 weren't broken for a month. I lost interest after that and may revisit it whenever Larian finishes the game.

[@coolumbrella4376]

@@mandu6665 act 1 and 2 were amazing for me, but I definitely ran into some issues in act 3 and I left the game alone for a month and came back to it, because I didn’t want to tarnish what had been an incredible gaming experience. So even though it did launch with some bugs mostly in the 3rd act they have been throwing out meaningful patches very quickly. You can tell they want to get the game fixed as quickly as possible. I just wish CA had that same sense of urgency. There are bugs in the game that have been there since Warhammer III launch its kind of crazy.

[@АльтаирЗурабович]

It was depressing, but thank you for such deep discussion

[@czukarpathian6621]

That yes culture part got me. I can see this happening at CA

[@MantismanTM]

This is the best warhammer game out on the market but as legend said a while ago in one of his own videos, we (customer player) can't be sycophantic about it, just because it's the best warhammer game out doesn't mean it can have bad areas within it.

[@foreverthesceptic7942]

Love this interview and all that you have done so far! Keep this series going!! You're an excellent interviewer!

[@icollectbadgers]

When you say that CA Sofia was set up to fail, you might be correct in the most literal sense. These cut-backs and layoffs may be a surprise to us and the devs, but it can't have been news to the senior executives. I think it's perfectly possible there was some office politics going on to ensure that the Sofia team is the one getting the axe once the cost cutting escalates.

[@pb3662]

Indeed. People weren't pissed off about the price - it was the lack of content and quality.

[@ozymandias7493]

Great interview. I learned a lot that was insightful. Especially in regard to tech debt I think Legend called it. I am not overly impressed with CA or GW for that matter in regards to the way they operate their business. It is nice to see people call it out for it is though.. Thank you both for caring.

[@Rhinopotamus]

I routinely played anywhere from 2-5 full campaigns after a major update... I haven't played more then thirty turns since SoC released, and those were only done because a friend wanted to play Co-Op.

[@O_g275]

When it comes to mods there is serious talent within Warhammer III, the only way the "monetisation" of mods would work is if CA "buy" or add mods as "accepted to game" kind of thing. Other games in the past, like Binding of Issac proved this taking the Anti-birth mod and expanding on it with the mod’s creator into an official DLC was very successful, and to some extent Counter Strike skins are also community content that creators are given a sale cut of the case they were added to. Every time that case is opened/key for it is purchased they get a small fraction of the key cost. Sooooo, the only way "paid mods" would work is if CA compensate the modders with a one of payment for their work or a cut from DLC sales and polishing up the modded content with better visuals, voice work etc (maybe even work with the modders on that). This would be depending on the mods added give good value for money and prevent CA getting lazy as they would again have to polish up the modded content into official content. Most of us that play the most popular mods would be able to tell if CA just tossed the mods in without polishing them up. The larger mods would add enough content (IF properly polished and respected) to justify higher prices. There are a lot of things, like Games Workshop's say and/or costs of polishing/compensation that likely would limit this or outright prevent this kind of deal from happening. If this did work out it would benefit everyone if done right.... but knowing how CA is behaving this will likely never happen.

[@doomjob]

Great interview, both of you. Thank you.

[@captainroyy21]

Right after Chaos Dwarves I took a break, and sadly got it extended with shadows of change. On the one end I do want to play again, but on the other the mood is still soured.

[@Omega068]

2:12:30 Sound advice, thanks Legend!

[@hand8007]

I think a weather system would be pretty amazing in Warhammer, three just due to the fact of how different factions will react to the weather

[@christopherrossa1619]

Mods do it

[@coolumbrella4376]

Would be cool but I would say it’s lower on the list than a lot of other things that need fixed.

[@CrimsonUltrafox]

There's a mod for that which is honestly way better than anything I trust CA to make.

[@hand8007]

@@coolumbrella4376 I agree but it more in response to Legend saying it wasn't that big of a thing since it doesn't affect much in troy.

[@hand8007]

@@CrimsonUltrafox Yeah but to be fair thats most modders

[@SaltySam34]

This is the crossover episode I didn't know I wanted, but I'm here for it.

[@LilyZayli]

I really enjoyed this chat, its really great getting to hear all your thoughts. I think everything you are both saying is correct, I suppose I do fear the entire communities negativity around these recent events is only causing a further downward spiral for CA so I agree with Legend when he said we just need to laugh about it rather than make giant rants about it. Like he said at the very start, its looking bleak but its definately recouverable. Regarding the Warhammer III scenarios, I absolutely agree we need a chaos invasion event, these WHII ones are mostly awful. I don't have any passion for finishing my campaigns like I did constantly in WHI. I realise campaigns are way longer now, but they lose their lustre for me quite quickly.

[@yuzuftazimo2157]

I don't want the game to die off either but sadly I've lost my interest to play the game. but you guys are legit the only thing that keeps the game alive by keep talking about it and producing quality contents ( at least for me) so thank you.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

None of us want this game to die. I can't speak for others but I am emotionally invested in the game, this is not just a job for me but something very close to my heart

[@coolumbrella4376]

I think something that gets lost in all the negative comments is at its core CA has made an amazing game that is an incredibly unique experience. We just want them to stop shooting themselves in the foot and tarnishing what could be a masterpiece strategy game.

[@ivansmirnoff6987]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I'm not sure man, it seems like people like Volound are very much wanting this game, and CA as a whole, to die completely.

[@LoveThatLoot]

Thank you both for the interview. Good stuff. Change certainly never comes from the boot lickers.

[@perkeletto640]

Though 3K DLC content was bad, i need to argue that their FLC and patch content was great and overshadowed their paod content. Like bandit faction overwork They shoud make Shogun 2 siwges for WH3. Smaller layered castles to take. More hugher tier walls, more layers, like in Shogun 2

[@adambrooker5649]

Great video, well worth the time to watch

[@roninfpv2402]

Thank you both for this great interview.

[@xpezxxstreamx]

Great interview, love seeing the community come together :)

[@kirilld6206]

CA are skaven, not bretonnia and norsca. This is why they also did release DLCs for the first, not the second.

[@SergioSF]

You two really interview together and should do something like this every 6 months. Also if you can, zoom your camera in to fit more in league with your other interviewers like a news interview I wonder how mucb Relic would pitch a fit if CA did make a 40K game

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

I've liked chatting to Legend we chat often! Honestly I want to talk to as many creators as possible so hopefully this series continues :)

[@coolumbrella4376]

Even more than new content they need to put time, labor and effort into AI, Siege Mechanics, remedying bugs and giving multiplayer support. If they just do a decent job supporting this game and put out new content that is a good value for the price point they have so much potential DLC that people WILL buy and then of course all the other GW IP they could do for years and years to come. Just kind of boggles my mind that they don’t ensure that this game flourishes because it’s guaranteed money.

[@sirwitold3538]

Great interview. Thank You both :D

[@dairewoods2544]

Turin is leading the way on multiplayer and is making it amazing

[@Loyal_Lion]

Multiplayer is never going to take off just due to the nature of the game: too many factions, too many different mechanics and units to balance, asymmetry which is good for single player being bad for MP, etc. You could compare it with Starcraft 2, which has only three factions. But they've been honed and balanced to the point where player skill is more important. That will never happen with TWW. It's basically an impossible task and directly conflicts with aspects of the single player game (unlike in a game such as Starcraft which is primarily a MP platform). The game also just has too many units for it to look consistently visually engaging. It just looks like amorphous blobs unless you zoom in (which most MP casters don't very often).

[@dairewoods2544]

@Loyal_Lion I dunno man other than a couple of bugs in some factions, the multiplayer scene is pretty balanced right now

[@emperorantares7951]

Cannot miss legend talking about stuff thanks

[@svenbrede6151]

Here's my prediction for dogs of war: A reskinned empire, but not empire faction with a mostly similar roster, with some differences

[@CrimsonUltrafox]

Don't forget one or two extremely overpowered units that will also be accessible by the empire, but locked behind a paywall.

[@QueenMooSuko]

Multiplayer communities that are of the TBS and RTS categories are generally going to remain pretty small compared to single player. Quite frankly, the prospect of multiplayer expanding to the point where it makes sense to devote more resources towards, is just not there. Its daunting to get into, and there are people who just generally want to ignore metas and play with the units they want to play with, something thats made complicated, or rather downright impossible for some, considering the existing multiplayer framework revolves around costs/spending caps for armies prior to engaging in a fight. Every multiplayer scene for RTS and TBS has this issue nowadays. Whether its AoE2&3, the paradox games (Hoi4, stellaris, etc), the Civ series, the defiant Command and Conquer 3-Kane's wrath community, or whatever. Fixing this would imo breathe life into this genre. There are a lot of people who are on the sidelines of MP that watch it but don't play it, and want to play it, but believe rather firmly that their experience will be terrible compared to the content creator. Add this ontop of a growing issue in games in general, which is loss-aversion. People hate to lose way more than I remember it being the case when I was still a teenager. I remember when, win or lose, people had fun in the experience, regardless of the outcome. Obviously the winners were having more fun, than those they defeated, but the whole experience didn't depend on which outcome you got. Sadly, MP in RTS and TBS seems to be an experience better suited to games with friends, than people you don't know, that only care about getting the win in the quickest, most efficient way possible, which I can respect, but there are consequences to the social systems of games being so barren, and uninviting.

[@coolumbrella4376]

At its peak, after The Warden and the Paunch, the multiplayer community was getting pretty large. The first Warhammer World Cup had 700-1000 people in it I can’t remember the exact number and this was all with basically 0 support from CA. In the last interview Nakamura said the multiplayer community was much larger than 5%, but said he wasn’t allowed to give an exact figure, not sure why. I don’t know if now after all the failings of Warhammer III you could get multiplayer or even single player numbers back to where they were, but I think they had an opportunity to really expand the multiplayer experience during that peak. I would be really curious to know what the numbers where then.

[@QueenMooSuko]

@@coolumbrella4376 Yeah as a long time viewer of Turin's content, I remember this all too well. That was definitely a high point in regards to the MP scene. Although the metric of what can be called a healthy MP community is something I'm not entirely sure how to measure, especially in regards to this genre of game, where 1000+ still can mean about 500 matches going on at a time, which is significant. Rather strange they would withhold that information, but I want to believe it has more to do with keeping a wrap on figures that stockholders might react badly to, given their usual tendency to lack the nuance when it comes to figures that appear small, but are actually significant.

[@coolumbrella4376]

@@QueenMooSuko Yeah it is odd since you can see how many concurrent players are playing on steam why they would want to hide the distinction between what game mode is being played, but like you said probably something in the company.

[@CrimsonUltrafox]

The crossover we've always wanted. I haven't been this hype since Legend did a multiplayer campaign with a drunk Majorkill.

[@aleksandrlutsyk2385]

That's was great interview, thank you guys.

[@Dark40061]

I remember when I was playing Warhammer 2. I would set Infantry units out of walls and put my Archer on the wall so my wall tower would be used more in the game.

[@quisshmoov6313]

Thanks for flashing the balled spot Legend 😂

[@godenhwang2603]

I remember when the AI ACTUALLY used to flank my dwarf forces… ah good times

[@alexanderlow919]

dude the AI used to just rush to your range unit on 1st contact lol

[@XShotokanX]

@@alexanderlow919 I don't know, but whenever I play cavalry try really hard to flank so I need to send out spearmen wide out to protect the archers..

[@RiskOfBaer]

​@@alexanderlow919 Definitely not how it worked in TW:WH 2. There were always attempts at flanking, sometimes even mid battle somebody would try to go for the backline. Don't get me wrong, it was very easy to guard against and very predictable, but it WAS there. Much less so now. In TW:WH3 the most I see is a unit or two try to flank, emphasis on TRY. Half the time they just clash into the frontline anyway.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

That really happened, are you sure? I do remember the AI flanking in Shogun 2, also the sieges in Shogun and Medieval 2 actually worked well. Beyond those examples, the AI was always terrible in TW as far as I remember. Oh yeah, the Skaven did flanked (in a way), because the AI just spawned the "terror from bellow" right on the artillery, they still do that

[@matthewsarson6934]

Looking at how things are going. I am pretty sure Legend was right to be worried that CA were going to just burry their heads keep doing the same thing but with half as many staff.

[@shanemczane6725]

See the sandstorm weather COULD be cool if they do end up adding Troy and Greece to the map; have sandstorms make Troy's factions struggle more and have stuff like rainstorms affect Pharaoh's factions more

[@mikedrzka6701]

You need a big push from CA via promoting and improving the most popular characters from warhammer universe (like Karl or Malekith) + you need to actually fix the basic game mechanics or faction mechanics. You need to lure the huge fanbase of warhammer to the game and make the game experience rich and fun.

[@unifieddynasty]

TW3K lacked more cultural diversity and more land and it took them forever to progress through the timeline. DLCs imo should've been: 1. Start with Yellow Turban Rebellion culture/ early start date 2. Northwestern border and silk road culture/ northwest map expansion -- covers the events of Dong Zhuo to Guandu 3. Red Cliff/ River semi-naval combat gimmick (water-focused battle maps) -- covers the most popular event and the eponymous start of the Three Kingdoms 4. Nanman culture/ southwest map expansion -- covers the southern expeditions 5. Korean culture/ northeast map expansion -- covers the northern expeditions (huge fan demand, even if less important to the period) 6. Xiongnu (Five Barbarians) culture/ northern map expansion -- covers an Eight Princes endgame crisis scenario but don't need the Eight Princes because nobody cares about the Eight Princes

[@mrhelzbygrad7485]

Please do a vid about new lore of hags mods! Now that the Motherland is updated!

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

I will don't worry :)

[@kriegaone3658]

Didn't one of his SFO vids already cover lore of hags?

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

@@kriegaone3658 I did but what I have planned is something very different don't worry it's not a repost!

[@mrhelzbygrad7485]

@@kriegaone3658 ah to be honest I hadn't realised the motherland version was the same team as the version in SFO,

[@Baconbits16]

Loved every point made, but shocked about Legend's Starfield take. It's very CA like in it's weak Copy Pasta strategy, but I guess every gamer has a guilty pleasure.

[@paolo.barone]

Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the player base do you think you content creators represent? What is the percentage of casual players who don't watch commentary videos? Not to be polemic but creators have a bias as their living is based on the game lifecycle, does that mean you're not a good representative of the average player? Just some points I think are interesting to explore to understand how the game is actually being received by its player base. I say that as a fan of both GBG and Legend.

[@Kingiron37]

Wow i actually watched the whole thing and liked it😮

[@alexandersmith6344]

Damn, hearing legend say that he feels like TWW3 is a lost cause hits hard. 41:04

[@alexneufeld6952]

You know its really gone downhill at that point😊

[@HomerJSimpson999]

Turin broke the mp community with his domination advice. the community itself was already closer to E-Sports than CA would ever get

[@darkarchonisme]

And even Now he still has to use the community map pack mod while he apologizes for CA and keeps saying he hopes they add better maps themselves. While also talking with distaste about how mods just aren't for him while his tourneys and 'total tavern' literally rely on community mod maps >_

[@chrislind3318]

Great chat! Over 2h but it feelt like 45min

[@farhadnikzad1514]

Great interview! Many thanks to both of you (edited) and the cat too

[@woodychopp]

i'm now at min 48 on the capture points; i would be fine with capture points if you were safe after you'd captured it. but you aren't; you can't methodically take a city, you have to rush through or just ignore everything and beat the army at the walls because you loose too many troops due to the towers as the AI infinitely builds them back. one way to improve this is as it would have happened historically: you capture part of a city and you can use that as a base of operations so you progress as you capture more of the city. basically CA needs to think risk instead of tower defense. or if you've destroyed a tower it stays down. or indeed just one main capture point and be done with it; you've conquered the city

[@Itchy__]

I haven't even bought WH3 yet, and I doubt I ever will. I still have tons of content in WH2 to play through since I bought it pretty late, and it's rare for me to find a game where I feel like I put 100h into it in less than a month like I can with WH2. But man, if they somehow pull the game back from the depths like battlefront 2 that would be soemthing

[@Sulejmis]

Siege problems : 1)many map models, regardless how huge they are, have tiny corridords and thus really a little deployable space-- thus fighting full stack x full stack + garrison is rather tedium. 2) As you have said, AI is confused and divided between fighting an enemy and defending / recapturing a points = not having sufficient force in a right place to prevent a player to progress deeper int a city = not feeling a reall pressure as attacker. Also however city models are fine visually, they, along with barricades on which AIs ranged units tend to get stucked/ sticked to , not really defending anything at a moment, adds obstacles for AI and human to effectively use a ranged units for its defense. Not to say artilery which almost irelevant and just a waste of army slot for defense. 3) IMO constructible towers range. I don't like them. I feel they should have a range to defend corridors arround them and a capture point they are tied to, but not more. 4) walls + ranged . Up until a point, where attacker raise a ladder, they are good. But i don't understand , why archers can't simply shot attacker, standing on second( inner) layer of the walls , while the outer is already defended and switched for melee infantry. because their engine doesn't allow that i suppose. overall, there would be many instances in which walls still couldn't be defended - 1) artillery heavy attacker ( in a case AI could use that ) outranging a main towers. 2) ogres , 3) superior attacker stack, which i know of they would capture defenders quickly so i would only loose senselessly unit.

[@Inferno912]

It's been few months after this video, but I still wanna add my opinion. Even if love all about Warhammer fantasy, the companies which working on anything to do with it are super greedy. They made fortune, but it is never enough for them. I plan to buy few dlc's for Total War W2, my other target are books. All of that for good prices. Also I am waiting to see what Amazon Studio gonna make to watch ;)

[@TheMissing8]

Awesome convo. You two vibed off each other well.