My Review After 100 Hours - Shadows of Change DLC - Total War Warhammer 3

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Timestamps in description. Had this DLC been priced FAIRLY then this DLC had been viewed with more favor by the community. It's clear that CA management have forgotten that their players are more than willing to buy content but only if its priced to the actual value of the goods. The devs need more support in the form of more resources and more help because it's obvious they want to create cool stuff however they are hindered by people who's names and faces stay unknown while devs among other front CA staff are put into the firing line. If CA want this game to continue to be a source of revenue while they use said cash earned from IT to fund pet projects like Hyenas they need to give us VALUE.

[@ardex9677]

Bullshit. Hyenas is a great project with great income. Diablo Immortal for example earned 300 million USD.

[@roham2806]

​@@ardex9677found the CA shill.

[@fluffyisyermom7631]

youre a smart man

[@ninsanity8184]

Fair and balanced review. So many signs CA will abandon this soon, but are trying to squeeze out a few bucks like its a fire sale. Sad.

[@arasandthevolodkas]

With you 100 % Nathan, I’ve bought every expansion, literally every single one. This is the first time where I’m considering not purchasing it until mgmt / sega addresses the issue properly. The price of this game should dictate that it should get the same level of support as BG3 gets

[@lordfingolfin6932]

You´ve done it CA, you even made Nathan mad. Took some real dedication to make that happen. ;-)

[@LordMacKaber]

This one is going in the great book😂

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

I haven't seen a Brit this angry since I tossed out a bunch of tea.

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

​@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Tbf that's criminal

[@Defsnot_Momskowerkor]

To be honest he loves Warhammer more than any other creator and is a thoughtful laid back guy. The mod community does more for this game than the company that made it, and they do for love not for profit. I have been on this train since day 1 and would go on a tirade that make most content creators blush. Nathan has to make a video that won't get banned by youtube

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

@@PenguinWithInternetAccess Perhaps, but the taxes were worse.

[@CaptainCrackSparrow]

Ironic for a DLC called 'Shadows of Change' to change so little at such a high price.

[@zoidySVK]

Well they "changed" the price.

[@khornesblessed4145]

Lol love this comment

[@BrBetim]

Let's just hope Thrones of Decay isn't representative of what's going to happen

[@ziutek1688]

They also changed the quality. For worse, but still - it's a change. Though I think if they will keep going this way, next Dwarves or Orcs DLC may be called "Rock Bottom".

[@tunencio7288]

that´s why is a shadow

[@boeschner3835]

I‘ve bought every dlc so far, but this is where I draw the line. The price is crazy for what you get. Gonna play Starfield or Baldurs Gate instead.

[@Mjjabgr]

Yeah, same here. I've been slightly disappointed before, but this was bad enough for me to stop buying for a few years.

[@robertc8425]

Baldur gate is amazing. Game of the year vibe

[@kolpere1625]

Or skyrim. U know, old shit never die lol.

[@SilentSpringz]

@@robertc8425to bad act 3 sucks. 1 is the best 2 very close but I noticed like some things are cut etc. Also everybody like want to F me pretty quick sec i say or do : iii! Agree! XD

[@godycs]

Cream api man.

[@m1steruniverse]

Hey man, if you ever do get around to reading this I just want to say that as much as I’m worried about the coming years with Total war warhammer, your videos have inspired me and have been an amazing listen during my nearly 2k hours sunk into this game. I hope you keep up with making the amazing content you do and have a wonderful week!

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Much love ❤️

[@storytsunami]

Feels like their old DLC model should have been used here. "Changeling vs. Yuan Bo" paid DLC for $15. With Mother Ostankya as your FLC.

[@mykolastrunce5457]

And still, it would be crap if you compare it to for example throt and the thots. For 10€ you got more units, two legendary heroes, woodelf rework, and the community managed to win some better looking unit cards. Drycha as flc got another legendary lord and even more additional units, with unique landmarks and slightly different playstyle (even if almost everything was reskins). Wh2 at the end was almost perfect and with wh3 they keep screwing up.

[@zacharyjackson1829]

@@mykolastrunce5457 facts. The DLC value from WH2 compared to this game is staggering. It is hilarious that this game is CA's flagship title because their actions really don't show it. imagine spending millions of dollars on Hyenas and Pharoah, two games that are absolutely going to flop, while also destroying your main source of income. At least the modding community has been amazing for WH3

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

Mother O - stank - ya has that pay to win bomb she throws from her chariot, that's why she can't be free. The funny thing is the normal hags have the same thing, but it's broken.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@mykolastrunce5457 Oh man, I'm gonna love coming home from work today to find the Tier V settlements giving you only 1 extra agent (And not 2 like in WH2) isn't fixed in the new patch.

[@SpicyMediaReal]

@@zacharyjackson1829 I'm just backdating to the 3.1 release for TW3 until the mods I play are usable with 4 and SoC. I will not play the Chaos Dwarves without my skill sinks and more skill points per level up. Or without my Cathayan heroes that aren't spellcasters.

[@arigoshi9770]

The fact that they presented Nakai in the trailer with Kroxigors presenting the bug fix like content was hilarious

[@seanwikman6185]

😂

[@lummix9240]

Wait, what trailer and at what point? Haha I didn't see it in the SoC trailer, but now I must.

[@eve9792]

Man, I was so excited for mother ostankya. it's a real shame that they barely got anything.

[@136iti]

It’s crazy that we got an Ungol faction and zero Ungol units…

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

It’s really baffling how it just seems like CA has no idea what they’re doing with kislev unless it’s Flanderizing it into some kinda Bear-dom.

[@thehonestaspy102]

I know, Kislevs section of the Patch Notes was smaller than some Game 2 factions 😂

[@khornesblessed4145]

Don't worry my friend modders will see that she gets more content.

[@handpan4695]

@@khornesblessed4145 But why fix it with mods? You'll be paying for a dlc made by someone and hoping that someone else will fix it with mods.

[@josephkush1032]

I remember CA would release entirely new campaigns and map with half the price they do now for a few lords

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

I guess making a map is not as hard as they claim it to be lol

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

Yep, the wood elves DLC, people joked about it at the time of release, but look at the horrendous state of the Warhammer "trilogy" nowadays, lol One base game released in 2016 (7 years already, damn... time flies), then 2 expansions disguised as "sequels", full priced. I have sympathy for this series, it presented Warhammer to me... but damn, since day 1 this damn thing is overpriced. I remember when Warhammer "2" was released, I talked about how the Skaven needed a map of their own, the under empire, eternal civil war among the skaven (or you can unite the Skaven and bring doom-destruction to the surface)... but the ever loyal CA consumers stated that would be too demanding, CA don't have enough resources, etc.. meanwhile Warhammer "2" alone sold 10+ million copies, lol If CA don't have "resources", imagine ourselves?

[@AleXoEx0]

@@RRRRRRRRR33 Those things would be nice but I still have to push back and say that I do see it as a technical marvel that we have the grand size of the campaign map that we have now in immortal empires. It really just seems like this is the kind of game you have to wait a few years for the map to be actually whole (Ind Kuresh Nippon) and then you can get all the since released DLCs for a cut down price of release value.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

@@AleXoEx0 I don't know mate, looking at the market, how the tech is evolving ever since 2016 (I mean, Red Dead 2 happened, Baldur's Gate 3 just happened, etc), the world map in TW Warhammer is impressive to some extent (for a double A), but it's not a technical marvel by any means. We're talking about a engine that don't have access to super sampling, lol there's no FSR, DLSS, XeSS (by the way, Intel sponsored this game, but XeSS is nowhere to be seen), it takes a full minute (even more depending on how many mods you use) for a turn to complete it's cycle on the world map. In Warhammer "2", the engine was even worse, a turn could take 2+ minutes. The turn cycle works pretty well in the Chaos Realms campaign tho, not much going on, so things load faster. Warhammer is being handicapped by this 6+ years old engine, CA is tweaking things, but it remains a struggle. I guess they could ease up the transition (and increase sales) if they ported the maps and scripts from previous Warhammer games into the tweaked engine of Warhammer "3", to play the Vortex campaign in this engine, that would be great fanservice and maybe it can even open the way for CA to sell Araby as DLC. There is potential, to offer the whole package... but it seems they are desperate, trying to milk Warhammer as much as they can, maybe the licensing with Games Workshop is about to expire

[@robovinefilms1811]

Hyenas has LawBreakers ghost town tumbleweed playerbase written all over.

[@JWSoul]

All over it. Insane that they think it will work. Meanwhile, they charge us more for content.

[@memedaddy6932]

"This game is too small for the both of us" -Hyenas playerbase

[@M0DIDDLY]

@@memedaddy6932 I laughed

[@necasperaterent29386]

"Hey, what if we did LawBreakers, but with the style and humor of the Saints Row reboot. People liked that one, right?" Stonks.

[@seanzibonanzi64]

Thanks for the review and honest takes. I'm a huge CA fan and want their games to be a success, personally I've never missed a TWW3 DLC but this shameful display of price gouging for lesser content is too egregious. I hope they offer better value moving forward, this game is too expensive for what you get as it is, this could really put a nail in the coffin for the fanbase.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

This game means the world to me and I'm worried for it's future if this becomes the trend

[@williamgunter4268]

​@TheGreatBookofGrudges I love the game and have bought all dlcs as well. I'm not getting this one until a sale happens. If this was a lord I was waiting for I may have bought it at these prices but as it stands I can wait.

[@jacquesdube6294]

Legend of Total War kinda nailing it with his business theory. First target the whale early. Then the casual with small price adjustments and finally way down the line, the base who will still be there in the futur (seasonal and bulk DLC discount).

[@newnamesameperson397]

SHA-SHAMEFUL DISPLAY

[@seanzibonanzi64]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges thanks for the comment! Me too but I get the feeling we're being 3 Kingdoms'ed, everything about this screams lack of care. In the past when fans rebelled like Queen & Crone, we got a War Hydra, has anything changed this time? They've literally done nothing to address the backlash beyond corpo speak back at the fans. That's what really has me worried, they're not even attempting to meet fans half way this time, it's buy this and future DLC as they stand at this price or we pull support.

[@oktavist5105]

CA once again fumbles the biggest strategy game bag in the last 10 years. Bravo.

[@Supercohboy]

People need to stop supporting them and GW, all the Britbong IPs have gone to hell and 3D printing makes it easier than ever to give the lazy bastards the finger. First there was ROME II, then 3 Kingdoms, now TW:WH3. GW is anti-consumer and anti-community and has been for over a year now iirc, with that "no community animations allowed" BS that went through, so I'd rather see their products in a landfill than in my local geek store. If CA doesn't turn their shit around, I'll just keep an eye out for the inevitable legally-grey super-community-modding-project that comes along to make a final "community-approved" version of the game in 5-10 years.

[@sheepfly]

​@@Supercohboyexactly. I have a huge krieg army, only made with 3d printing, and it's leagues better than GW. F them and CA. Didn't even got total Warhammer 3.

[@clementineshetheyfae8312]

It’s probably SEGA and CA execs doing this there’s not way SEGA isn’t trying to take in this cash but the only good exec is a fantasy so CA is also to blame

[@thehamman210]

It sucks looking back to when the chaos drawfs released or when the roadmap was shown and seeing how hopeful we were.

[@Supercohboy]

It was a bait and switch, I honestly am hoping that something litigious comes out of this if CA continues to drop the ball. After all, what are their stakeholders going to say when the reports coming in over the next 3+ quarters showing losses hand-over-fist? Losses that were VERY easily avoided by the company, given their available resources, their experience, their working relationship with one of the biggest names in fiction in the world, etc. Hopefully the CA suits are able to convince the SEGA suits that this is a series of terrible business decisions leading to nothing but losses in the future. Or maybe the GW reps need to convince the CA suits that they're being idiots with an IP that isn't theirs to wreck? Whatever the case may be, these uncreative business types need to get their shit together and form some PowerPoint Synergy or whatever in order to Appreciate their Assets and not find themselves jobless in the next 5-10 years. I'm sick of everything decent and fun being taken for a ride and then fed through a meat grinder by every business in the world for a couple extra bucks, the 21st century has been an era of IP milking/destruction and I've had enough of it.

[@G1ingy]

eh....meh...the Chaos Dwarf Race pack sucked and to me it was an omen for the shitshow this DLC brought. It came a full LL short replaced by a shitty LH and it was WAY more expensive than Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast which had 4 LL's. In short, Chaos Dwarf embodied the "cost more for less" trend Shadows of Change simply continued.

[@Dragonage2ftw]

@Supercohboy The DLC is already selling well.

[@Dragonage2ftw]

@G1ingy Chaos Dwarves had way more in depth mechanics than VCoast and Tomb Kings. Also the Legendary Hero is insanely cool and changes how you build your armies.

[@Supercohboy]

​@@Dragonage2ftw And you're trolling in the comments. The universal backlash is going to make it fall short nonetheless, I'm not worried about it selling less than CA expected after taking a look around YT.

[@LightningBoltah]

This is the first DLC I don't pre-order or purchase. It is honestly a much harder decision than I anticipated because I LOVE Warhammer. For me it is not just about Total War and CA anymore, its about gaming in general. It seems that we are constantly being exploited and its getting worse. I'm grateful for games like Baldur's Gate 3 and Battlebit that have shown me how fun gaming can be when the player is prioritized. When this dlc goes on sale, then I'll buy it, until then, bugger off CA.

[@desfefe]

Same for me here. I will admit WH 3 has basically caused me to stop playing warhammer altogether. I remember playing WH2 before the launch of WH almost daily. But then once WH3 released, I started playing, and realised campaign was awful so waited for IE.... Been way too long finally get it, but it is a mess.... Waiting for each mess to be fixed.... Never happens. Waiting for DLC to make it less boring... Waiting... Champions of chaose released but it is basically a reskin of current assets, so waiting for new dlc.... Oh chaos dwarfs! Nice one, bit expensive, but finally new content! Waiting for new dlc.... And this shadows of nonsense drops. I think I am truly done with WH3. I am back to enjoy the superior AI and much more interesting campaign of ME. This game has really left a bitter taste in my mouth and I think I will never be bothered with further DLC releases nor the future WH/ Total war games.

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

Why didn't Ostankya get Frost Fiends, or access to all the other animal units Drycha and Rakarth also get? You could also give her "feral" Arachnaroks without the howdas and access to the landmarks in the Black Pit and Mount Arachnos.

[@AnArtisticToad]

I think you're right, but we should distinguish between stuff they do for practically free and new things we could've had.

[@leakyboat224]

24:40 Oh ok. So we are definitely going to see Lime Flavored vortex beasts for the Nurgle dlc and Starberry Lemonade Flavored ones for Slaanesh. Those are going to be some of the "new" units.

[@ho8ojoe8]

nah nurgle will get the toad dragon, and slaanesh just won't get anything

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

It's about the colors my friend. Don't forget the numbers, the Nurgle vortex beast will have 7777 hp, 27 charge bonus, 57 attack, etc.. That requires a lot of effort and resources from the devs, of course, they are right to charge $25 for this kind of "content"

[@ek3177]

Ummm, strawberries 🍓

[@olympusgolemoflight7198]

Something I was disappointed in was that the characters don't seem to do anything to each other in campaign.

[@senti5468]

And the leader of the secret police vs the Changeling would have been such a perfectly obvious setup too. Not to mention they got Eshin operating in Cathay, you'd realyl think he has other stuff to do than head over to Lustria.

[@olympusgolemoflight7198]

@@senti5468 Exactly!

[@billbadson7598]

@@senti5468 _"And the leader of the secret police vs the Changeling would have been such a perfectly obvious setup too."_ Especially given how Cathay in general seems to be in the most danger from Tzeentch, of all the Chaos gods. Even the new Crowmen units are something I'm a little suspicious of...

[@elegantoddity8609]

I believe it was Yahtzee Croshaw who said "I don't like the feeling that the game is fighting with me to stop me getting what I want out of it." And as fair as I try to be, giving as much benefit of the doubt, I can't help but feel that this is what's been happening. From Ostyanka's nonsense unit picks/absences to the general feeling of Kislev and Tzeentch not being *quiite* finished to the overall lacking feeling behind all of this, it feels like CA is dripfeeding new content while sitting on their hands regarding fixing the old. And I don't like the feeling that I'm being nickeled and dimed, nor the feeling that they're letting their most popular franchise rot to fuel newer ones and hiding behind inflation and the veil of production to do it.

[@Supercohboy]

Starbreeze Studios did some similar shady shit, and now several of their members are going to jail for white-collar crime while PAYDAY 2 was left to sit there and lose gamers' interest. PAYDAY 3 is now coming out in the near future, and it looks like a Unity asset flip it's so generic. It's amazing what happens when inexperienced folks are steering the ship. The fact that I can compare these 2 companies is absolutely egregious though, when one of these companies has over a decade of experience more than the other and can presumably hire higher-quality management with their greater capital alone.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

Things like CA making the chaos dwarf before fixing immortal empires achivements and Tier 5 agent buildings only giving 1 hero capacity instead of 2, is a big red flag.

[@HansAlRachid]

I already really enjoy your channel quite a bit, but I also have a lot of direct respect for you as a KZbinr at this point - it's rare to see a promotional partner of any given company take an honest stance on this sort of thing when it may well displease the company they're working with. Kudos to you, genuinely much appreciated. A line absolutely needs to exist for this sort of thing.

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

My late Grand Father taught me that I need to be honest with my feelings be it good or bad. I would be shitting on his memory if i didn't take the lessons learnt and put them to good use.

[@alexanerose4820]

@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I would argue that being honest with your feelings and what leaves your mouth are two different things. It's like your honest feelings are raw ore and the polished gem is the outcome despite both being nothing more then rock. Having the skill to identify and polish are very useful to have. Still ,wise advice from your grandpa. Hope he had a good run and thanks for the review

[@CarlosDiaz-je1bg]

The Changeling would have really benefited by having multiple start positions. 1 start location per grand scheme area would be perfect

[@DPD1]

I wouldn't worry about this game. Even if CA abandons it the modding community has already shown how much love and care can be given to this game. SFO Grimhammer made up the majority of playtime of WH2 and was absolutely incredible. Just like when GW killed Fantasy Battles and we kept on playing we'll make it work! And Nathan, you're a freaking gem. Love you to bits mate and even if WH3 falls off I'll still be watching every vid you put out!

[@basinox]

Everything aside: why does Yuan-Bu start with a alchemist? Doesn't he see those as unauthorized and borderline heretical?

[@nobey1kanobey]

The same reason why Mother Ostyanka starts in Naggaroth obviously

[@emilvennerberg4927]

I like to think of Mother Ostankya as her own unique faction seperate from Kislev. Would make more sense.

[@oscarandreas1431]

sub faction perhaps, half ungol, half forest beasts and a sprinkle of kislevite royal units, that would justify the price if not even higher it to give us what is basically a new race pluss the two other lords, but sadly thats not the case

[@G1ingy]

She's still recruiting Kislev Boyars instead of something that made more goddamn sense

[@carsonnesbit1178]

To bad she doesn’t feel like a separate faction, since her roster is jam packed with gospodars.

[@senti5468]

Or at least a subfaction on the level of Draycha.

[@zerg0s]

I can see why they didn’t do it. Because there just isn’t until stuff. Her entire faction would be low tier units, aside from maybe Treemen and feral arachnaroks? I’m sure mods will eventually make a really cool Baba Yaga faction, but the DLC just released too early into Warhammer 3 to really be a proper Baba Yaga faction out of the bag.

[@reiteration6273]

The only thing I can disagree with here is hoping that the Khorne DLC (when it eventually arrives) isn’t Skulltaker. Why would you not want Skulltaker? He’s the coolest Khorne daemon there is. ... though maybe I should be saying "if" the Khorne DLC arrives, rather than "when", because if CA keep screwing up as badly as they have with this DLC, it’s possible TWW3 could go the way of Three Kingdoms before long.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Should be Skulltaker +

[@BearPawSwipe]

@@jamesespinosa690 Skulltaker + Karanak all the way.

[@StarshadowMelody]

I was introduced to this setting by this game, and What The Fuck Is A Skulltaker

[@BearPawSwipe]

@@StarshadowMelody One of the heralds of Khorne....name is self explanatory.

[@reiteration6273]

@@StarshadowMelody He's a Herald of Khorne who once fought Sigmar for three days straight, amongst other achievements. He's all the more badass because unlike Skarbrand, he wasn’t created strong. He started out as a lowly bloodletter (or possibly even a human - his origin is vague), and worked his way up.

[@fiveforbiting]

This series already has a crazy amount of content and replayability. I don't need more content, as much as I need the existing things to work properly. I've learned that if a problem isn't fixed inside a couple years, it probably never will be. So, I'm not going to bother with any more DLC.

[@mauroferrari5518]

"The straw that broke the camel's back", you got that right. I bought every DLC blindly since warhammer 1. Not going to touch this one with a 6 foot pole.

[@Tiberium10332]

They really have to get a team working on regular updates. Every siege battle is a pain, because the path finding is so horrible. I recently played a bit Tehenhauin and I already had bugs during the first turn. Stuff that happens since release. My skinks refused to use the broken down gate and instead slowly climbed the walls, even trough I ordered them to move directly to the gates capture point. The skaven meanwhile got stuck on a bridge. And how easily units sometimes forget their order is so incredible frustrating too.

[@Dman9982]

Thank you for your hard work in giving us consistent content. Cheers 🎉

[@alharron2145]

24:24 I wasn't sure I could listen to a 45 minute review of a DLC like this, but that made my day! The heartfelt appeal in the final thoughts made the 45 minutes worth it.

[@Kasaaz]

Ostankya feels like she would be the FLC lord in previous patches/updates/whatever. Least work went into etc.

[@BearPawSwipe]

I have a feeling they fleshed her out completely but are going to drip it to us. My conspiracy of course.

[@Kasaaz]

@@BearPawSwipe She just reminds me of Alith Anar, basically.

[@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm]

​@@KasaazTHIS. "Hey, you know this murder hobo who is basically a wraith, followed by a bunch of other weirdos who are only a straw away from becoming the things they hunt? Yeah, so he plays like any other HElf faction". Also, Arkhan, where I think the design was limited to "just give him a bunch of weaker Vamp units and lets go play some Counter Strike"

[@Kasaaz]

@@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm From just a mechanics standpoint, I like playing Alith Anar campaigns, but yah, just like with Mother Ostankya, they feel less like additions and more like concessions to the game as it, renaming a few things, etc. as FLCs, I'm fine with that. But like... as part of something equivalent in price to a whole new race/army being added to the game? Less so.

[@AltaHawksMinecraft]

Love the videos man, thank you for all of the work you put into your craft 💙

[@RealEvilLordExdeath]

The biggest slap in my face is no New lore of magic, not for the jade guy and not for the hag.... 😡

[@zacharyjackson1829]

the absence of the lores sucks but that is something I can overlook because they've been doing magic dirty since they didn't give wood elves theirs for years. what's truly horrendous is the fact that they literally already have the assets for the hags and celestrial generals so why no make the lord/hero options for them? cathay needed a melee hero and hag lords were just a given. it's stupid how easy it would have been for CA to include more in this DLC that would justify the price with little work required for them

[@therasco400]

Biggest slap in the face for me was the lack of normal hag lords. Why are snow witchers leading animal armys?

[@RealEvilLordExdeath]

@@therasco400 Also true, the lack of units in all 3 rosters is just sad

[@therasco400]

@@RealEvilLordExdeath A TON OF NEW UNITS!!!!. What 3 per faction?

[@maskdanger]

Yes I am dying for some new cool lore of magic and animations

[@lucgerretsen7688]

To hear the pain in your voice in the final minutes breaks my heart Nathan. Excellent conclusion on the DLC and where ever you go we will follow ❤

[@seranonable]

Listen, here's the deal. I don't care if you charge $100 for DLC, but that DLC better be WORTH $100. If you're gonna charge $25 for a lord pack it had better be completely stuffed with content and there can't be ANY gaps in it. Chaos Dwarfs was easily worth $25 and damn near everyone bought it. The price isn't the issue, it's the fact that this feels like a $15 DLC and it's being sold for $25. If it felt like a $25 DLC there wouldn't be backlash.

[@ChaosXeronix]

100% true. Most of the ppl here are not starved by money. It just feels fucked up if the prices go up AND content goes down. Its like now these days with food. you get 180g instead of 200g and prices go from 2,29€ to 2,89€....

[@manfredthegreat]

Plus the not kept promised supoort… bug fixes and Reworks

[@Skyguy22]

Hey, so if I remember correctly, some time ago they actually said, that Mother Ostankya and Baba Yaga are the same character. Baba Yaga got a lore revamp to differentiate her a bit more from the real life folklore. They stated that in some lore stream quite some time ago, when the loading screen lore bits about her started appearing. But maybe they changed their stance on that since then.

[@palosh4456]

I really wonder by how much the sales will drop for this DLC. It's gonna be the first one I'm not getting and I see a lot of other people doing the same. Hope it's gonna be a big enough drop to instill some changes.

[@thehonestaspy102]

It's the first DLC I've ever missed in this franchise since game 1. It honestly feels like the love and passion they had in Games 1 and 2 have just been replaced by corporate greed. Game 3 could have 5 years of solid content or more left in it but they seem like they're doing the bare minimum.

[@liofalba]

Since I’m not an expert in the lore, the idea of “neutral” chaotic stuff for Kislev is cool and contrasts well with the core Kislev faction. Had she gotten more Lords/units to fill out her faction it would have been cool.

[@killSeal]

Remember 'Ogres, my lord'? Fun times...plus it was free!

[@ComfortingColourlessLight]

tbh I wasn't planning on buying it anyway this year, but I did very much enjoy your videos on it this month

[@Dinovart]

Just recently warhammer 40000: battlesector got demons of Khorne dlc. Yes, it is very small, just 8 units with most of them and their animations already seen in december, 2022 as enemies in survival mode. But the price is very low. While I usually don`t like turn-based startegies (just personal preference to real-time ones), Age of wonders 4 deluxe edition (dragon dawn allowed to rule the fantasy world as western dragon ruler for the first time since Divinity: Dragon Commander in 2013) and battlesector dlcs have fair price for amount of content. These game are on smaller scale, than TWWH 3, but some passion feels in each new dlc and there were no too big price hikes. I hope TWWH3 will follow this trend sooner or later, because, despite all flaws, this game series (TWWH) and verminitde 1-2 are one of the best games ever made in warhammer: fatasy setitng.

[@Skyguy22]

Watching TGBG talk about beeing unsure about the upcoming Hyenas and Pharaoh makes me feel like beeing time traveler from after the apocalypse.

[@Zettern96]

Baba Yaga is a real myth and I think I have seen something about GW wanting to distance themselves more from real world things.

[@robhamilton1655]

Everything is a reference for sth of the real world. That unique take is what gives the flavor. GW really knows about their own frigging property it seems....

[@Storm130000]

I’m gutted the direction this game has taken. At the height that TWW2 was I couldn’t wait to see the rest of the races in this game and see chaos fully fleshed out. This will be the first DLC I don’t buy, this game in its entirety has felt like a step back in quality

[@Kraniumbrud]

I want to play the changeling a lot... but I am not paying that price for it, maybe when it goes on sale

[@amateur_shut_in]

You can get it 20% off currently

[@Ravenzadow]

Not touching it for less than a 40 or 50% sale personally.

[@amateur_shut_in]

@@Ravenzadow thanks for letting me know

[@ironlegion8214]

Personally the only reason I got this dlc was just because I love the changeling so much

[@carsonnesbit1178]

@@amateur_shut_inhe didn’t @ you lol

[@crabgamer3671]

Remember that Rakarth was free, If they released him now it would be $15

[@TyrantofChaos]

The fact that this dlc almost is half the price of a fully developed game is insane. Couple things to mention is that even if CA were to “kill” the franchise, they would burn so many bridges. GW would never work with them again, customers would be hesitant to purchase future games and finally; the modders will fix the game and give us the factions that we want (Ind, Nippon, Khuresh).

[@ninetailedfox579121]

Or the more likely scenario, the games will no longer be available for purchase given that CA lost the license, and GW will send C&Ds to anyone trying to make further modifications to the game.

[@linussyren9221]

Kislev really feels like the time ran out for release and they cut 70% of content for them. Jade dragon and Changeling feels like they had the biggest focus for sure.

[@DI-ki4hr]

I was so hype for yuan Bo , i love Cathay and I love this game. This is heartbreaking 💔

[@CulinVlau]

I think this is going to be a winter sale purchase for me. Currently playing Baldur's Gate 3 and Starfield is around the corner.

[@pb3662]

Costs wouldn't be a real issue if they had included the same level of content as previous DLC as well as actually showing some SUPPORT to fixing underlying bugs/issues in the game vs treating it as their cash cow (more like killing goose with golden egg). There is a massive lack of QA and this is probably an underlying resources assigned issue (not the devs themselves).

[@EvansdiAl]

They charged us the same as a new race pack, but did they really add 25 units?

[@AleXoEx0]

Looks like about 5 per faction lol, 15? That's if you include the lords and heroes too -.-

[@thehonestaspy102]

It's the same cost as CHORFS but with so much less content, and no attempt to justify it.

[@jonasfull]

took them like 4 months to make this so i understand why it's a lord pack, so i assume spending a year or so could mean ind/khuresh. Sadly tho I have no clue as to why they would do any of that if for a mere lord pack they expect 25 pounds

[@memedaddy6932]

Who else hyped to play the iconic Budget Yaga?

[@patchesgaming9139]

I miss the WH2 DLC format. If CA rush to drop support for this game to release a 40K total war I would never give them money again even though I prefer 40K , either they treat these properties and the fans right or they get no money.

[@thetruevoncarstein]

I hope you and the other content creators have the ability to make your voices heard.... hopefully CA will listen to us and get back in the right direction

[@chadroy16]

thanks for your integrity. I held hope that the patch and thought the dlc was going to be packed since the price increased so I preordered without delay. then more videos came out and legend showed a guy fixing nakai in 5 minutes, so I cancelled my preorder and am really not sure when or if I will be buying this.

[@minze202]

Just bought BG3 instead. I feel like this was not the best time for them to increase the price like that XD.

[@alexs_toy_barn]

i think the monogod dlcs will have daemon LL's and heros, so charecters like Egrim Van Horstman and potentially Tamurkhan (less likely tho) will be tzeentch and nurgle aligned chaos warriors ll's

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

Ambatukham? Oh my God...

[@Gravord85]

Community deserves a lot better. If CA is so strongly inclined to ruin their best selling product, they can go for it. Modders are doing better job than CA from a while now anyway.

[@peterrehm490]

I think I am done with WH3 unless CA gets this turned around. I have no idea what they were thinking with the Kislev DLC this round. Most of the times there is some rhyme or reason, but I feel like they are just adding units that look cool and flashy. I have about given up on WH3 which is sad!

[@tincano-beans2114]

So don't buy the dlc or just move on? There are plenty of other games or things to do.

[@christopherboye5498]

@@tincano-beans2114 That's what he said he'll do...

[@LordMacKaber]

As for me. Ill buy the DLC anyway... For 10€ when dlc Quality and price finaly meet

[@Johnny_Isometric]

Right there with you.

[@Shagrat65]

Agreed as well on the FLC or lack thereof. I really hope CA go back to Free LL instead of LH. They offer so much more game play wise.

[@cheesysealAnon]

CA needs to get their act together, despite the massive amount of space it takes in my storage and lack of bug fixing I still enjoy this game, seeing CA putting game support in a hostage situation rather than admitting they screwed up and focusing more on Hyenas with no actual gameplay with only showing pre-rendered footage show me the game could bomb while also hurting Warhammer total war 3 even more, It was my first total war game I ever bought and I enjoy it and with the added workshop I could make the game more fun for my play style by adding new units and research, improved economy, and much more but the lack of bug fixes makes it difficult to work with like I would start back from a load and select a settlement/Capital then the game would just freeze and crash soon after and it wasn't the mods I checked. This game still has much potential with a dev team that is trying everything they can but like you said there are many people working behind shadows hindering them and putting their employees on the firing line. A boycott is happening but they are giving up too soon, change for the better takes a lot of time and hard work and I don't want this game to die out due to some higher ups deflecting which us for money.

[@BlueSatoshi]

GW's making a new Warhammer Fantasy line, so the Cathay units and the Baba Yaga knockoff are probably tabletop units CA were mandated to include, as GW's stated bread and butter are selling plastic model kits.

[@Doombot221]

On the topic of the changeling, I would like to see a video talking about how the player deals with the ai version. With the way that the faction is shown in the game as the player I'm not sure how an ai version could ever be stopped

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

probably the same way people deal with Skaven undercities. the AI is terrible at keeping their discoverability low (and other AI factions are pretty good at removing discovered undercities), so you discover them easily due to their terrible building choices, pay to have them removed, and then the Changeling will have no settlements. failing that, every hero you have in the region (including ones embedded in armies) lowers the requirement to discover them by 10 (though I think every hero they have in the region raises the discovery requirement by 10). base discoverability requirement is 100 so get 10 of your heros into the area and you'll discover them even if they've got 0 discoverability (pretty sure they can get their discoverability down to -50 (and at that point they're helping far more than they're harming, keep them around and they'll be buffing you with no cost to yourself) at minimum so at most (absolute worst case scenario that you'll never realisticly encounter) you'll need 15 heros+however many the Changeling themself has in that region) frankly, I'd consider the Changeling in the same way I consider respawning horde factions and Skaven undercities. take them out if they're being inconvenient, let them do their thing if they're bothering your neighbours more than you, and since those hordes (not sure if this'll apply to the Changeling or not) respawn infinitely they'll be back on the map somewhere eventually.

[@patrickperkins3]

If I had been the PR guy I could have way better explanation that would have kicked the can down the road: they need to pay for development on Immortal Empires, which is (technically) FreeLC so that continuing support has been factored into the DLC pricing going forward to pay for a IE focus team (even if they were lying it would have calmed me down just to think there was a reason beyond greed)

[@manfredthegreat]

I really hope CA management listens to those videos and DO SOMETHING about it. Very well said in this video. As in the 1 Hour long talk about the statement with other content creators, you manage to express very well what I think about the state of the franchise (Warhammer and Total War)

[@ZESTdabest]

Each and every word is spot on, brother. You voiced the whole community there

[@TheRetifox]

I really like this format for DLC review, keep it up with the next one too! :D

[@Lord_of_the_Taiping]

Appreciate your thoughts on this, Nathan. I sincerely hope they (CA/Sega) are listening to the fanbase on this...

[@ValoRuss]

Off topic but does anyone know why the ogres never actually use their unit roster? Only infantry ? At least it's that way for me.

[@richardbourn5896]

Ogre AI doesnt understand how camps work so they never recruit higher tier units

[@ValoRuss]

@@richardbourn5896 what a shame. it renders them useless really.thanks for the answer man.

[@Kasaaz]

I wonder how much of their marketing is affected by SEGA. It's never an excuse, I'm just fascinated by Japanese companies managing western ones. I think of Square Enix selling off all their western studios for a bargain price in recent years. Is there tension? Probably not, but I always wonder.

[@richardkneller7887]

If you read this Nathan, thank you for the content you put out. as an ex fantasy player you're a gateway drug to refresh my interest since end times

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

honestly... I never questioned the unit count. game 2 seemingly set the standard contents of a lord pack as each race getting 1 LL, a generic Lord **or** a generic Hero (never both), 3 units, and 3 RoRs. sometimes a faction would get more (Lizardmen got 6 units from Prophet and Warlock), sometimes a faction got less (Allarielle only got 2 in Queen and the Crone (Hellebron also only got 2 when the DLC launched but the Kharibdyss was retroactively added to the DLC a few weeks later)), sometimes there would be an accompanying FLC with an extra unit or generic Lord/Hero to me, "tons of units" meant we were getting more than 6 in the DLC... so... sticking to 3 per faction instead of 6 per DLC (2 per faction) compared to these standards and expectations Tzeentch 1 LL (the Changeling) 1 LH (the Blue Scribes) no generic lord or hero (disappointing, but since they got a LH I'll overlook it) 3 units (Tzaangors, Cockatrice and Mutalith) 3 RoRs (Pink Horrors, Screamers, and Mutalith) so... sad that there's no generic lord but they did get a Legendary Hero Cathay 1 LL (Yuan Bo) 1 generic lord (Celestial General) 4 units (Onyx Crowmen, Zhangu War Drum, Jade Lion, Jet Lion) 3 RoRs (Onyx Crowmen, Zhangu War Drum, Celestial Dragon Crossbowmen) one more unit than expected. good. Kislev 1 LL (Mother Ostankya) 1 generic hero (Hag Witch) 3 units (Akshina Ambushers, Incarnate Elemental of Beasts, Things in the Woods) 3 RoRs (Akshina Ambushers, Things in the Woods, Streltsi) exactly as expected as for price... I'd say £1 should get me 1 hour of entertainment. it costs £20, so if I get 20 hours of entertainment from it I'll consider it money well spent. the moment CA fails to do that, I'll start hesitating on DLC pre-orders, but in general they've consistantly managed to deliver what I considered to be more than double the DLC's value (Chaos Dwarfs got almost 10 times value before I even tried playing another race again...)

[@schizoaffective8592]

The price increase for chaos dwarfs DLC was largely ignored? That’s not my recollection

[@lordnazar6382]

Right. But it was certainly not as big as it is now.

[@Sarcasmses]

I still haven't decided whether to buy the DLC on launch day. I may do it. What I have noticed however is the last few weeks of reading and hearing so much grief has taken away my enthusiasm. I'm not plannign to take an entire weekend to just play WH3, I'm not waking up my friends who have been sleeping on WH3 for months so we can do coop and FFA again, I'm not looking forward to the DLC or counting the days until I play again. I love Kislev and Cathay but none of their content in this DLC appeals to me either. I feel like the love and enthusiasm for warhammer 3 is not there anymore. I used to love Fallout, but after 4 was released it looked so underwhelming that I forgot about it and never bought it. It wasn't till 3 years later in 2018 that I remembered Fallout 4 existed and bought it + all its DLCs on sale to try it out. What used to be a series I purchased on launch day and looked forward to became just another game that I barely cared about and would play when I got to it, even years later. I feel like TW Warhammer may now be in that boat for me. I don't know if I care enough anymore to get the DLCs on launch, and I may just forget about WH3 and come back a few years from now when I hear that it won't get anymore content, pick up all its DLC on sale, and play the "finished" product. Just another game I barely care about.

[@arthurpalha4605]

I once tought you were too easy on CA. I'm very proud being a fan of the channel knowing you got our backs against the ghoulish behavior of this company

[@angusreid10]

Appreciate your honesty and giving the community voice for their concerns

[@adriankay8410]

I value your opinion very highly, Nathan. Thank you.

[@lanceconte2231]

Hey Nathan, always following you. To me, detailed videos and Honesty are your trademarks. I think we all disappointed and I think CA is realizing that. You did amazing stuff for these 7 past years And I think This series did improve thanks to content creators like you so thank you a lot for that. Get rest, love from France.

[@channingeastman2863]

I can hear the sadness in your voice especially at the end. I am sad too that the game has gone down hill this bad. I share your plead to CA. CA, please learn, put your better foot forward on this game, make it your focus and passion and the money will come. Probably not at your current price point, but it will come with better consideration.

[@CacneaMain]

Just remember everyone, we currently have the Steam strategy fest going on with so many great strategy games on sale (apart from any Total War titles for some odd reason). So I´m certain every one of us strategy fans can find something nice during these poor times for Total War.

[@olekjaer86]

I have 4 mods for Cathay... CA don't get near the content they deliver.

[@inductivegrunt94]

Thanks for the review. It's good to have honest reviews here on the DLC. As much as I want this, I'm not paying full price for it.

[@tincano-beans2114]

The right attitude. If it ain't doing it for you, just don't buy it or wait on a sale. Idk why people are acting like CA is selling bottled air, and they must have it.

[@lijileung]

I was mainly disappointed that not enough units were given to each faction for this price. Cathay and kislev desperately need more units especially to increase their fire power. Cathay still needs a stronger front line missile infantry and Calvary. Kislev needs artillery and a stronger missile Calvary and more elemental units. Tzeench needs more tzangors and stronger missile infantry and Calvary units

[@miloradlukic9277]

How do Cathay needs stronger missile infantry ? they got almost the best in the game

[@lijileung]

@@miloradlukic9277 what I mean is a an armoured gunpowder unit that can defend itself better.

[@miloradlukic9277]

@@lijileung celestial crossbowmen are pretty much that with better shooting arc

[@lijileung]

@@miloradlukic9277 I love them but they don’t have AP damage and you have to get them at tier5. Also all cathay gunpowder units die too easy to furies and light cav

[@jorgenava2021]

Weirdly. This expansion is the cheapest in mexico. The last one costed 20 dolara=400 pesos. This one costs 16 dollars for us. 330 pesos

[@nathanstruble2177]

Really!??! Is it time to do a little VPN based travel??

[@ninetailedfox579121]

@@nathanstruble2177 If you really want to risk your Steam account just to save a few dollars, knock yourself out.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

How many mexicans does it take to buy a DLC? Just Huan.... Bo 😂

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@ninetailedfox579121 That's not how it works chief, unless you use a free vpn, which is like what kids do 😂

[@qwertpoo1]

Can't say it enough this is all frustrating hopefully they listen and next dlc is more worth the increase in price.

[@federicofranceschini1553]

Mother Ostankya is a lost opportunity to implement the ungol/gospodar dualism in the Kislev Faction imho.

[@Czzor]

It's crazy how it has come to this point. I was hesistant when chaos dwarfs came out due to it's price but it's probably the best faction/dlc ive come to purchase and i sunk so many hours to them.

[@GreatWolfGrimnar]

Here’s what else the DLC SHOULD have had in addition to what was present to be even close to being worth that price: Tzeentch: -Tzangor bray shaman hero -either Tzeentch Chaos Lord or Tzangor great bray shaman for generic lord -proper mutated tzangors, not just reskinned gors -Tzangor Disc riders Kislev: - Descent campaign to start off - Generic hag lord -lore of hags magic -Elk riders -Ungol units (how this got over looked baffles me Cathay: ( less familiar with Cathay lore) - generic melee hero - Terracotta Soldiers (perhaps multiple variants

[@albinobigfoot1]

My complaint here is this: CA thinks RoR have the same value as other new units. They're nice but everyone would rather more new units in place of RoR if that's what it takes.

[@xristosdago]

My men at the end sound like about to cry i feel your pain but please don't cry 😢

[@darthnihilus6211]

"Poor family company, please understand!" -LegendofTotalWar

[@I2dios8]

You know things are really bad when people stop being upset, and just get tired and depressed. That's how interest in a game truly dies.

[@Celldwellerz]

what annoys me is with mother OST. you have kislev tech tree, like useing them snow blizzard and the other things (cant remmeber their name.) but she cant use it. (or atleast i cant) so why the F are they in the tech tree

[@Azhalan]

CA need to rethink their approach to monetization and communication. Apart from that, the people responsible for this fiasco have to go.

[@hugosaurus]

Wish they would add some more infantry and ordinary units. It's great to have more flashy stuff like the mutalith, the lions and the elemental, but the only infantry this DLC adds are akshina ambushers and tzaangors - for most of the campaigns we rely on infantry and we should be getting a bit more variety alongside the fun monsters.

[@bzilla8566]

I don’t agree on the creature of chaos being out of place argument. It’s simplistic and looks past the nuances of the lore. There is a distinction between chaos with a big c (sentient beings aligned with chaos gods, the faction) and chaos with a little c (beasts who have been touched by chaos, as an unnatural energy). The latter includes trolls, manticores and other beasts that are widely used by non-chaos factions such as green skins and dark elves, and controlled through binding spells by wizards who are otherwise order aligned. This is all well established in the canon. Storm of magic and monstrous arcanum provide plenty of examples of this. I don’t think that it is much of a stretch for what are essentially witches to dabble in grey areas, as dealing with the forbidden kind of goes with the territory. She is out in the forest, so she doesn’t have to abide by the strictures of Kislev society. If radical inquisitors in 40k use chaos to fight chaos, I don’t see why hags can’t do the same. They may risk your soul, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

[@Warpanda98]

I have just discovered something If you okay as Changeling and have a cult in an empire or whatever settlement you can recruit saved Lords via download saved characters button for the money of the faction and in the faction.

[@MapleMcIntyre]

Love to see the community come together to tell it how it is!