Interview with Rev. Robert Barnes (Complainant Against Bishop Karen Oliveto)

In 2018, Rev. Robert Barnes filed a complaint against the newly-elected bishop, Karen Oliveto, not for being an openly avowed and practicing lesbian, but for preaching doctrines against Jesus. For a write-up at that time, consult: juicyecumenism.com/2018/12/07...
This conversation covers the handling of the complaint process by the bishops responsible for oversight. Rev. Barnes is able to share some details that are at once illuminating and concerning about the state of disciplinary adherence among our denomination's leadership.

[@sharonforbes7174]

Thank you both for this discussion. I have wondered why this hasn’t been discussed before. I feel that this situation has caused the split and division in the UMC and is nearly breaking our denomination. If the Bishops had handled this correctly we would not be where we are today. I pray for justice to be done in both our church as well as our Nation. What a mess!!!

[@JamesAllmond]

Amen

[@deanwheeler4304]

If a Bishop says that she or he doesn’t care about matters of Christology you should RUN for the exit.

[@lynnmcclure812]

I don’t think any Bishop said they don’t care about Christology. I may be wrong because I’ve not read everything any Bishop has said. I think others have said certain Bishops don’t care about Christology.

[@stevesafety6743]

Heresy plain and simple

[@wfmontgomery]

You need to name all the Bishops involved, so they are called into accountability!

[@plainspokenpod]

I hope you feel like I put the pressure on. I always get frustrated with interviewers who don't push, but then I really don't like pushing on my own interviewees. But yeah, I believe in accountability. I hope there's a future when Bob feels like he can tell the full truth of what has transpired.

[@paulaldridge3212]

After listen to this it has become very clear that Satan has gain a foothold and all out war on spiritual level is occuring I pray that that our heavenly father will grant the church deferment

[@paulaldridge3212]

Discernment

[@Keycity60]

It seems Bishop Oliveto thinks Jesus should go for sensitivity training. I think Paul would disagree… “Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!” “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?” Romans 11:33-34

[@Mutasis_Mutandis]

Glad I’m not a Methodist. Wow. Too bad that these wolves that have crept in.

[@bonniekarenmullenholtz1877]

Wonderful discussion. I have seen this as well. Who is Jesus. Is he Buddha? A philosophical construct. Certainly not capital God. I am not dismayed. "To be warned is to be forearmed" Pray.

[@jeffdollar1646]

Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear. - 1 Timothy 5:20 - this passage is directed specifically at church leadership and appears to be completely disregarded by those dealing with Oliveto.

[@plainspokenpod]

Yeah I think they would say something like "Our context is just culturally different from the context of the original biblical audience, so it is no longer practical or loving to apply those instructions literally in an procedural sense." But those of us who believe the Word of God is eternally true just can't really accept that...

[@lynnmcclure812]

Does not God change his mind ? When he punished the people with the flood? And promised to never punish people in that way again. God also changed his mind in the story of Jonah. God decided not to destroy Nineveh.

[@plainspokenpod]

Lynn, a god that changes his mind would be a terror. While I understand someone getting the impression that God changed his mind from those passages, a traditional interpretation of those passages would require that God's plan never changed, but that the people in relationship with him had to be able to see when humanity had entered into a different stage in the plan of salvation. The covenant of Jesus Christ is different from the covenant at Mt. Sinai. The same God made them. There wasn't anything wrong with the former that required the latter. There were ways in which we had to see reality as God sees it, and that could only happen by zigging and then zagging. Historically, our ways of expressing that indicate a change on God's part, but that isn't the reality. You're, of course, entitled to interpret things however you want. But folks like me are pretty clear that God is the same today, yesterday, and forever.

[@lynnmcclure812]

@@plainspokenpod I supposed we both need to do a little more study with this. Best wishes

[@jeffdollar1646]

How many homosexual bishops are there now, and what actions are being taken to remove them?

[@JamesAllmond]

Not sure and absolutely nothing, there won't be, not with the UMC.

[@plainspokenpod]

There are now two, both of them in the Western Jurisdiction. There was almost a third in another jurisdiction, but it didn't happen. We also have a bishop (I think she's retired now) whose husband identifies as a transsexual. Postmodern gender theory has made a happy home in the UMC. I believe conservatives have given up on the process to exercise purity within the body. Very few engage in the complaint process. We don't really circulate information about people filing complaints. We probably should, but there are a lot of institutional forces asserting pressure for confidentiality, for reasons that become obvious when one watches for a bit...

[@jeffdollar1646]

@@plainspokenpod they really don't want the info getting out - Stay UMC filed a ""copyright claim" on my last video and had it taken down.

[@JamesAllmond]

@@plainspokenpod Guilty...your interview kinda sheds light as to why.

[@stevewalker1021]

@@plainspokenpod It's ironic that the "Just Resolution" process is neither just or resolves anything.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

Jeff, you’ve probably figured out that I am no fan of UMC bishops , and I’m very much a fan holding bishops responsible. Thus, I started watching this video thinking whatever this bishop did was probably deserved. That said, I think that this is a lot about not much . I think I’m seeing an old persistent errant Christology from you two , a Christology I call “ God driving around Palestine for 33 years in a human vehicle .” A lot of people do this and there are different varieties of this. This Christology is basically summed up as “ Jesus was fully God and he was only human in the sense that he had a physical human body and temptations all humans have that he he did not succumb to.” REAL incarnation , if I continue with this vehicle analogy, would by a creature that is half God and half automobile . Fully God, yes, but also fully Cadillac with all the foibles that Cadillacs have inherent in them. I consider myself orthodox theologically yet I reject this God-heavy theology . If Jesus was truly half - God , half-human then guess which half usually gets short-changed in Christian theology ?. Being FULLY human then ,Jesus had to have had doubts. He had to have had the need and ability to change his mind. He had to have not known everything that was going to happen in his life. To be fully human he HAD to have experienced these things. If he did not experience those things then he essentially was “ God grabbing a human taxi for and using it for 33 years. “ And then there was no real incarnation. I think one can believe in a very human Jesus and the transcending Christ . In fact, I would argue that one can’t happen without the other . Yes, this bishop obviously used her orientation to inform the scripture , rightly or wrongly. In your words, she turned Jesus into a” modern day social warrior.” Still, I think she also raised an interesting point or two. I just look at this situation like this : Are there not deeper reasons to get worked up about bishops than this blog article ? And I say, you bet there are! And you two touched on that when you discussed how the bishops handled everything afterwards. THAT is where the issues are imho. Those Discipline paragraphs about bishops being held accountable for ANYTHING aren’t worth a cup of warm spit. I have to wonder if the people who put those paragraphs in the Discipline weren’t chuckling when they wrote them.Every AC episcopacy committee that was supposed to hold the bishop accountable that I’ve ever seen was stacked with episcopal boot lickers . So why would it be any different the higher you go? I liken UMC bishops to “ made men” in the mafia- once you’re in, you’re in , and there will be heck to pay if anyone “ outside the privileged circle “ever tries to hold any of them accountable . Lastly, unlike you I think the Wesleyan Quadrilateral is a fantastic tool . REASON rightly is a part of that quadrilateral. That’s a problem I have with too many conservatives : it’s like too many of them engage in magical thinking in that they put Scripture above reason. That is highly illogical. How about this syllogism : If God IS wisdom itself then he is the creator of the wisdom and logic which he has graciously given humans access to . Therefore is something is illogical then it is not of God. Period. There are a fair amount of illogical things in the Bible . You can conclude for yourself whether they are “ of the wise God of Reason and Logic itself.” Further , too many conservatives are inconsistent with their beliefs. They will cite passages in Leviticus that do not speak well of homosexuality then will summarily discount what it says about not shellfish or pork or mixing clothing just a few passages over. What gives the average conservative , if they think the Bible is inerrant , the right to include one and not the other ? I mean, if someone is going to use the OT to justify homophobia then I better not see any pork at the Methodist Men’s breakfast .

[@ericrathburn5475]

Wow. Your argument was rather solid then you had to use the very tired talking point of throwing out the fallacious notion of equating moral law with Levitical dietary law.