Into the Backing Ep. 11: To Single or Double Hand Cast, That is the Question

[@ddt1352]

Both styles are awesome and learning them will make you better overall, for me 2h Rods lend better to more passive sweeping presentations and distance, 1h rods are better for ease and accuracy of presentation when targeting smaller specific zones and implementing movement with the rod tip. When fishing for Sea run Cutthroat or Coho it can be the difference between casting practice and catching fish. People like to make streamer fishing sound easy or simple but to really do it consistently and successfully there's a ton of finesse and calculation in the approach. These discussion based podcasts show how important discussion without agreement is critical for people thanks for doing this!

[@rangerwhite5165]

Guys, I'll chip in with a pointer for the older/aging anglers. My late father was ready to give up fly fishing due to arthritis in his hands, making single handed casting very difficult, but started using a single line rated switch rod. Twinned with a short head fly line, it kept him on the river. Stick with what you enjoy, but you can adapt to any limitations.👍

[@academicmailbox7798]

I've had to learn how to fish using a bait caster, braid and some leaded jigs, in order that I can train my Dad how to use one. He's caught more salmon than most I've known, with single and two handed rods, but 'age is undefeated'. He's not interested in anything that takes work any more.

[@SamRocha]

April's remarks on Lani Waller at the end were really moving to me because of how respectful they were made -- the humanity and tone of those words -- and, also, because of the elements of pride and shame that they introduced. For me, these are the biggest obstacles and, oddly enough, promises of casting double-handed rods for steelhead and salmon.

[@academicmailbox7798]

Can't wait to hear it, as I've leaned much too much on the single-handed side (in my defense however, I will suggest that 'within' single-handed, as with two-handed there is diversity, as in Tenkara, Czech nymph, streamer, dry fly, Pike single-handed, saltwater single-handed, and all superbly different ways to fish single handed). On the two-handed there has been an explosion of diversity which has arrived afterwards in recent decades. But by then I was too far down that single handed track, to branch out from it. April started with the wind cutters in early 2000's and that was right at the start of that, when two-handed started to transform itself. I missed the entirety of it. But I did get to experience fishing way back in eighties when many more rivers were still something more like their former greatness (back when you could make it still work, even without having ideal tools to work with).

[@academicmailbox7798]

What I've discovered (when Jeff talked about the heat shrink at connections), I've created a lot of single handed line prototypes. To have a line prototype and cast it on grass, one can use connections that won't even be strong enough to really hold a fish under strain. But prototype or invented lines with connections that are strong enough for simple test casting on grass, and doing overhead casts can be use. I like to use wide open grass spaces, and pretend that some hedgerow or edge, or tree line is my river bank that I'm fishing towards (when shooting some of these prototype lines, you endeavor to test them in tight quarters for shorter distance casts as well as distance casts). And that's where running line selections, running line diameters do matter. With the shorter distance cast, the cast part of it is over quickly, the line lands on the water and you're fishing. So in my case I was trying to invent or design my ideal 'active retrieve' line for a given single handed fly rod. Where you're running line becomes to thin, and head length too short, fior smaller casts (where by definition line handling is important, because with short distance casts you are 'fishing' super quick after that shorter cast, you need a running line that can handle well in your fingers). Equate 'running line' in that circumstance to how bait casting anglers think of reel 'gear ratio'. Gear anglers want reels with different gear ratios, to suit different baits and presentations.

[@academicmailbox7798]

My point is, is that a weird thing happened in test casting prototype fly lines (and on purpose you'd not bother at all to build the prototype lines to have permanently built connections between compinent parts of one's prototype line). The connections needed to be strong enough only to test cast with, on water or on grass. I could physically break my line connections with my hands. As long as the prototype line held together long enough and well enough to test cast with, you could weigh your components separately and together, and 'log' this data. And then test a selection of prototype lines using different single handed rods. Make no mistake, this is not a fast activity, be preparedfor a lot of boring, laborious and scientific or engineering math type of work. It's time consuming. But what it did was to enable me for once not just to imagine different types of line for my single handed rods, but to 'experience' them on a limited trial or test basis. What was shocking to me about this research, is that line, rod and individual caster are three set variables. And if you altered any one of those variables, a balance that had functioned a minute ago, could be lost a minute later.

[@academicmailbox7798]

For example, I had an eight foot rod, and an eight foot six inch rod. Both of these rods were marked 'eight weight'. Both rods were from the same maker of rod, same rod product line. Yet, the eight foot rod was softer action and 'worked' with certain lines, . . which the eight foot six inch fly rod, in the same product line from the same rod maker, could not cast (the 8 ft 6 inch rod could almost throw ten weight RIO outbound saltwater lines, not quite but almost). My eight foot softer action rod could throw a seven weight full floating line with ease. Single handed fly rods are like tuning forks, . . there's a specific line 'build' (and I only discovered it, or finally believed this by building prototype lines), . . that can make that single handed fly rod work perfectly. And if you can away from that magic balance of things, a bit to the left or to the right, you lose this balance completely. It's like tuning a radio to pick up a radio station. One minute you're hearing static noise, the next second you can hear a radio broadcast. You turn the dial too far and you get noise again. This really shocked me. Because I've developed a very personal 'casting technique' from fly fishing for Atlantic salmon over decades with single handed fly rods. If I give a single handed rod and line to another person, who doesn't cast like I do. Chances are, the right balance of things for another person could be different to me. This kind of gob-smacked me. Unless I'd built those line prototypes, and undertaking grass field and plenty laborious water based testing hours of casting, I would nkt have believed this was so. I would have been far less selective about rod, line or casting technique. Than what I know now is possible. The other variable is 'the fly' as mentioned, as we also have big flies, and small. All of it matters.

[@academicmailbox7798]

The 'push' for me, which influenced me to go through this torture, as opposed to just 'going fishing' and being contented, was pro competitive bass anglers. Who often are like golfers on a golf course. Pro bass anglers bring fifty rods and reels, and narrow selection of rod and reel down to a dozen rod and reels for competition. The first obvious thing I learned was river bank wading anglers can't carry a lot of rods. It's not possible to carry that amount of weight more than a few hundred yards (as far as a pond or river pool to do test casting, but no further). So, the other variable is size of river, and water conditions (if water is high, shorter rods and shorter casting may be advantageous). So what I learned having multiple lines and multiple rods, is you cannot carry them all. But you can select one or maybe two rods at the vehicle parking area. Simply leave the rest behind, and having arrived at a river to fish. One is not limited to only selecting a fly lure to tie on. One can choose between different rods and lines, as well as between flies. What it made me realize though, is why Czech nymph systems of fly fishing were invented. Why? Because using small portable boxes of Czech nymph flies, you can change fly weights and target different depth ranges in fishing. The Czech nymph system gives one maximum variability of presentation, and maximum portability combined. The Czech nymph equivalent for streamers does not exist. Except in 'boat' or kayak angling, or some platform to fish from where one can physically accommodate multiple rod, line and bait combinations laid out on a boat deck.

[@academicmailbox7798]

Ironically, a platform which seems restrictive. That is saltwater fly fishing from a pier or jetty platform. Is not that bad. I watch coastal saltwater anglers, and then throw heavy spoons to reach out to fish when the tide is out far. They drop that tackle as the tide approaches and throw one ounce and half ounce jerkbait lures. To target fish as tide nears. And for high tide they may change to soft plastic or top water thrown a short distance, when the fish are almost at one's feet on the shorelines. That in fly fishing terms from a shoreline jetty or such platform. It equates to two handed fly fishing, which is dropped to partake in heavy single handed fly fishing. And you finish using short range fly fishing near the shoreline and breaking surf edge. The advantage of the saltwater jetty as a platform, is you don't have to move position and carry rods. The water and fish move towards you, and you need different tackle anyhow to cater for different distance and depth ranges. Ditto for beaches in saltwater (you'd simply put three rods into three rod stands on the beach and wait for tide to creep towards one). This us where 'Switch' rods would fit in too (the Switch is a lot like that middle distance, ounce down to half an ounce jerkbait lure throwing). The skagit for the longer distance spoon throwing, where fish are out there. And single handed for when fish are literally under your rod tip, and you need to work baits are close quarters better.

[@jasonpullan488]

Totally agree with April about line noise scaring fish, New Zealand browns can be so aware of their surroundings that if the last 2 foot of fly line slaps the water, GAME OVER!!! Even a nymph dropping in to hard can scare of a fish, especially on pressure driven fisheries. On smooth clear pools and runs going to a scandi type touch and go cast where only the fly and leader touches the surface. On riffles and noisey water, you can get away with a lot more. If you're wondering how cagey NZ browns can be, I once when stalking a shallow run, I stood on soft sandy gravel that made an audible crunch noise, a 4lb brown 30mtrs upstream heard that noise and came down stream to look for me! Yes I got busted 😖

[@FlyGuy420-l1j]

What a great way to spend an hour when not on the water!!

[@losratitos8277]

"Neon Rob" here...just got back from Northern BC and absolutely smashed 'em with my 15' 10/11 SAGE IIIe Brownie fishing an old RIO Mid-Spey line...I felt bad for the guys having to strip so much line all the time when all I had to do was pick up the line and blast it out there...don't be scared of longer belly lines...like anything worth while, it just takes a little practice...Cheers...

[@academicmailbox7798]

House of Fly had Ed Ward at Spey Casting demonstration in 2024, around 45 mins into 'Into the Backing' episode here, the dividing line between 'Switch' and larger two-handed rods was examined by April. Ed Ward in 2024, he fills in some crucial details in how things evolved. And Ed explains that actually a fourteen to fifteen foot two-handed fly rod would have made their lives easier. Why the thirteen, or thirteen and a half foot rods for skagit casting really became a thing he said. Swollen rivers and chest wading down narrow margins of winter steelhead rivers, the Cedar tree limbs were overhead too often. Thus ruling out the fourteen and fifteen foot rods they'd have preferred to have worked with (easier to work with big flies and big lines with a longer rod). The thing was, steelhead hugged along river banks from 'sixty foot' out, and right back into the river bank. A cast longer than sixty foot was of no benefit. Ed did mention, that yes twelve foot fly rods then became useful (again because of same tree branches etc overhanging these rivers), on the smaller tributary waters of the winter steelhead rivers, Ed explained going down to twelve foot rods was desireable then. And of course, as mentioned here, twelve foot and down is the kind of Switch rod region. What Ed Ward explained, twelve to thirteen foot 'and change', the skagit tactics lived. And if the rivers as he said had autumn run fishing, shallower water and space of 'gravel bars' etc to walk across, . . Ed would have no problem carrying a fourteen foot. If tree branches weren't a thing. Switch rods get one down to even 'ten foot' and change nowadays, and I hate to break the news. Atlantic salmon for instance live and migrate to some very small rivers. I fish rivers were ten foot rods are desireable, even though the fish I may encounter could be twenty pounds weight, but swim only yards away from where you stand. It gets up close and personal, especially with sea-run brown trout too, the Atlantic and sea-run brown's almost co-exist together in a lot of European systems with wild populations of both.

[@academicmailbox7798]

The analogue by the way in stillwater 'gear' fishing for species such as large mouth bass in north American, is what those chaps call fishing 'flooded bushes'. As the bait fish shoal and gather inland as the reservoir water level rises and pushes across what is normally 'dry land'. The bait shoals go in search of food as well as cover and protection in the flooded vegetation. And baitcasting anglers perfected something called 'flipping bushes'. Winter steelhead fishing is on moving water, but as Ed points out winter steelhead has everything to do with adaptation by an angler, to what happens when water levels rise. To the point at which the fish occupy these margins. What skagit anglers are doing (as a gear angler would see it), is they are flipping and pitching in the bushes. And similarly (where one can bring 'the Kelly Galloup' of it all into this woven narrative), essential to 'flipping and pitching', and to skagit line casting to winter steelhead is the weighted drop of the lure, in close proximity to fish where the are positioned. Flipping and pitching bushes, pioneered years ago by Dave Gliebe from California, is a reactionary bite strategy. Like 'streamer' fly angling is, which is what Kelly often talks of in his seminars. So actually, active retrieve and skagit tactics for winter steelhead are connected in ways that are less than obvious.

[@АлексейКук-т3ж]

👍👍👍✌️

[@springteen3743]

To me people whom are so obsessed with double hauling and blind casting and casting far is cause those people don’t have the ability to stalking the fish. Stalking is the only valuable skill to me. Myself I only cast once to a fish and my ratio is one to one or one to miss the bite. I only cast the head of the line no running line at all.. you must become the fish to understand them and then make a presentation.🤔