Into The Lair #56 - Tracking Drums with Greg Wells and Ian MacGregor [FULL]

[@xanderlegetter5018]

Thanks so much Ian and Greg. Since watching this I now use the mono mic over the kick and the underheads ALL THE TIME, and can hardly believe how much better my recordings have gotten. This is the best ITL ever! REALLY APPRECIATE you guys!

[@TheColebyArnett]

Man...How did I not know Greg was a monster drummer? Groovy. No doubt.

[@yobhsiFehT]

Probably my favorite drum recording tutorial I've ever seen =| Very cool!

[@jonlevymusic]

Very cool. Love the vibe and setup of the studio. Also a big fan of the mono OH mic (over the kick,) and positioning the stereo room mic to be in-line with both the kick and snare (really a no brainer when you think about it.) I've never thought of or tried ribbons as underheads. Next session I can experiment with that, it's happening!!

[@jonlevymusic]

Very cool tip! Thanks for sharing, it's always great to nab some ideas and inspiration from videos like this. Can't wait to experiment with the null of the figure-8 and see what sounds I can come up with.

[@WhenProphecyFails]

This is the most incredible video for so many reasons. Thanks to Greg and Ian for broadcasting your knowledge. I've just downloaded the stems to have a crack at mixing for practice. Would love to see some more 'start to finish' ITL's in the future especially for tracking. Thanks again.

[@Richard_P_James]

Brilliant video - there is always something new and interesting to learn about drum mic and production techniques. Love the mic over the kick idea - definitely going to try that next time! What a rack of outboard he has too!

[@BarstowDesert]

I was going to say I can't really hear the sounds that are being commented on, I'd like to hear a desk out of the phase comparisons and what not, but then I realise I can get stems! Will have to load them up when I've got some spare studio time, very interested in the ribbon underheads. Thanks again Pensado's Place!

[@buhlir]

It would have been really really great if we could have heard each mic coming off the comp. It also would be awesome to see this at Greg’s new studio! Time for a new one ha!

[@TheRevWillNotBeTelevised]

Great stuff, it is really informative to get to watch professionals at work and see some of the tricks of the trade. Bravo.

[@ObscurePunkXX]

droom mic, love that word XD

[@JamieDrumz]

Fantastic video! Greg was hilarious at the end!

[@durik5295]

Love it! Great vid, lot's of amazing info. Thank you for posting. Excited to see more and follow more vids. I'm 100% into the production, Editing & mixing aspects as well as performing live. Subscribed-

[@ISREHL]

Me trying to follow along 🥴

[@Studio201]

Fantastic!

[@xluisle]

amazing !!!!!! thanks for sharing those tracks,,,

[@PistaKralovic]

I wish I saw this video earlier, great job people!

[@paulgallant8825]

Great Ian thanks... makes sense. I usually take allot of top off the omni in the mix.

[@kyleranney]

What is the polar pattern of the room placed in the middle of that kit?

[@ThomasLebeaumorley]

It's funny that he talks about room mic position to get the snare and the kick in the centre because after downloading the files, the snare is off to one side on the room mics. LOL To end on something positive though, this has been very informative! The drums sound is great! Since watching i've been trying the mid mic (over the kick) position and getting amazing results (I used a AKG c 414 ULS in omni). It's a nice quick way of finally being able to capture more of the shell resonance.

[@josephpatterson9993]

Cool video thanks Rich!

[@MrHapaProductions]

Great insight...

[@schance1666]

love these vids, dave and greg, but dang, all these audio geniuses and we still have to hear the camera's mic for the audio?!?! JEEEESUS. nonetheless, a great educational vid in some respects.

[@SteveStockmalMusic]

Best PensPlace EVER !!

[@Czyszy]

Holy fuck! This sounds incredible.

[@jmpsthrufyre]

Producers and mixers and mastering engineers are usually guarded and tight lipped. Seeing videos like these are great. Imagine if you could pull up video of the setup, recording, mixing and mastering on every album ever recorded? There are so many sessions I wish I knew the what and how of the arranging,tweaking, experimenting,and recording.

[@RichBischoff]

So is this guy EQ and adding all this stuff before hitting the hard drive, or after?...

[@warlordzephyr]

Need a separate video for tracking un-muffled drums.

[@paulgallant8825]

I must be missing something? The Kel above the Kick on the beater side is a Supercardioid pointing directly down to the floor is it not? at it's placement it would not be getting much of the direct snare correct? mostly reflection of the floor? I have been using this method for years almost in the same location but with a omni mic. Would not an OMNI be better in all cases for this method?

[@ianmacgregor1377]

The Kel is cardioid and I find its pattern to be quite wide. Pointing at the floor. Aiming to get as much kick and snare as possible. Omni might be cool, but probably too much cymbals to be useful (drummer/song dependent)

[@Andreas_Ko_]

upload #55 please

[@TheLabWeMakeRecords]

the KEL 47ish mic over kick and snare is that set to OMNI?

[@tomasshannon6537]

it's a KEL hm7u, which is only cardioid

[@DeanMccormick]

No. MONO, like Greg says toward end.

[@RigorMortisBR]

and only through the ears, it is impossible to know if this one canceling the other tracks and how often this minimum cancellation ocorrendo.Este this is the main reason for the fact that even with the latest generation machines still can not get a great capture

[@UMmus1c]

Is that Kel Audio Kick/Snare mic just cardiod?

[@tomasshannon6537]

yup

[@natebarnesstudiodrummerrem8423]

Kick drum sounds amazing! What batter head and muffling are you using? Thanks for the vid

[@davestanley357]

+Ian MacGregor It looks like an ambassador Ps3 on batter head. What about other heads around the drum kit like reso kick or toms. Awesome vide thanks!

[@ianmacgregor1377]

Probably coated ambassadors on toms/snare. Don't know about reso.

[@blazemonger1]

How do you figure out if something is out of phase? Short answer is you mono it and when something disappears from the signal something is out of phase. For so many things mono is your friend.. and cheapest tool..

[@ElectricRingpdx]

Man, nice set up with your studio! I am interested in compression applied to the individual drums. I looked up the optograph, but it is one of those hardware compressors where many settings appear to be fixed. Could you discuss the philosophy of individual drum compression while tracking? All the drums or just some of them? What sort of ratio, attack, release, target compression amount to you shoot for or is all dialing by ear? What about those distressor settings on the snare?

[@ianmacgregor1377]

I like high ratio (slow attack, fast release) on kick drums. That's usually a common thing with optical compressors. Medium ratio (2-6) on snares. Adjust attack and release for proper crack, punch, etc.

[@bryanrafie7239]

Any chance the Under head ribbons could be replaced with small dia. Omni condensers. Might create some phase issues but interested in your thoughts.

[@Wraithbound1]

bryan rafie The point of the underheads is that they have a figure 8 pattern which he uses to reject all the drum kit elements that are to their left and right. The pattern is really essential to the setup.

[@ianmacgregor1377]

Never done it but it might be awesome!

[@antoni7515]

How did he tell that the overheads were out of phase? how can I check this when I record drums?

[@summael]

why do you prefer that over full control afterwards ?

[@hkonmoen]

facing where? up? down? at the floor tom?

[@RigorMortisBR]

excuse me but you checked whether the tracks were on stage just by ear? the biggest problem that exists in a catchment with several microphones is knowing exactly "see" if the recording strategic phase or not.

[@noreaction1]

cool! thanks, very informative

[@pappycross]

Where is the mic over the kick drum pointed?

[@mirkomarkovic3438]

floor

[@thisiswhereiwatch]

Hi Ian, Thanks for the reply. I was also wondering.. are all these tweaks that you do to the mics (eq, compression, etc.) being committed to tape? Or this is just processing you do for the tracking process? Thanks.

[@cattmampbellvideo]

Which Kel Audio mic is it that he has on the kick out?

[@hollifiel18]

Pensado's Place is my Playground !! :D

[@bobybayo]

Is the Kel Audio mic above the kick pointing up?

[@bryanrafie7239]

Down towards the kick

[@thelunarcrush]

Magic! thx

[@joedell71]

How do you figure out if the mics are out of phase?? I usually look at the waveform on protools to see if both wave forms are the same. Ian talks about the mics being in and out of phase but never says how he determines this??

[@HollerAtcherBoi]

Did you ever get your answer?

[@scotthalliday2000]

Hey Ian. Can you tell me about the room the drums were recorded in? The room mic sounds like the room is huge but it doesn't seem that big or live.

[@scotthalliday2000]

***** Thanks a mill for all of your comments Ian. This video has really inspired me. The mic over the kick drum has changed so much for me. I've ordered a pair of Level-or's so heres to better sounding drums!!!! thanks again!!! Scott

[@DreamMakerBeats]

What is the piece of gear you are using to reverse the phase?

[@ianmacgregor1377]

polarity switch on mic pre 95% of the time

[@thisiswhereiwatch]

what converters does he use? anyone?

[@DeanMccormick]

Antelope 32 x2

[@TheAlexHJrShow]

why under and not over heads?

[@ianmacgregor1377]

It's hard to explain, but in certain situations, it can give a punchier midrange to a drum sound. Works better the less cluttered a kit is. If you want to hear the difference, check out Lost Alone's songs "Creatures" (traditional overheads) and "Orchestra of Breathing" (underheads). Same drummer in the same room for both songs.

[@unclestepa]

#56????? mb 55?

[@DubsMood]

that snare is godlike! would you mind telling me what brand and type it is? ;) thx!

[@joeybaronstudio]

are you tracking with those processors?

[@ianmacgregor1377]

Analog, yes. Digital (plugins, no)

[@KaiMusicProductions]

@@ianmacgregor1377 what hihats are on the Kit it sounds like Istanbul Mehmet turk to me but maybe just sound alikes?

[@ianmacgregor1377]

@@KaiMusicProductions I don't remember, sorry!

[@DECIFERTHIS09]

I would keep those mics and settings up, all the time and I would call this the drum room.

[@SonicologyRecords]

I thought he was Pualy Shore Great Video guys.

[@dallasjohnson1213]

Fun video! Thanks for sharing the "mic over the kick" trick. I'm a little disappointed though at how often pro engineers talk about dealing with phase and polarity incorrectly/interchangeably. Phase is a time-dependent property (same sound arrives at two mics at different times) and changing polarity inverts the waveform (like you'd want to do for top/bottom snare mics). Does Ian time-align / phase-align in Pro Tools editing, or just rely on the preamp polarity switch to do the job? I guess it doesn't help that manufacturers often call it a phase switch... Not hating! Just can't hold it in any longer :]

[@ianmacgregor1377]

You are 100% correct. As a classically trained electrical engineer I do know the difference. When I'm wearing my record engineering pants, it becomes interchangeable.. I have almost never "time aligned" drum tracks. If I did/do, I'd consider it a fuck up on my part not getting it right live.

[@HandsUpDK]

This guy moves REALLY fast.

[@RigorMortisBR]

these minimal cancellations are called comb filter and ruin the sound of a recording because they can completely eliminate certain frequencies of our recording

[@aSpeaker2BlocksAway]

Yeah the underheads are missing... one of the most interesting things I wanna hear.. But thanks anyway that´s a great thing...

[@cornbobrimlove7892]

didn't know Pauly Shore was a mixing engineer……….learn something new everyday.

[@davidtrig]

Or use UAD plug ins done hahaha

[@Tomatofury]

Why are you flipping the snare top ? It makes no sense, cool video but I won't under mic under the cymbals, phase issues being the obvious reasons, just a mono mic & an omni overheads

[@gonzomuse]

You nearly always have to flip the top snare so it doesn't cancel with the OHS. Your Overheads are always the big picture so you flip polarity on whatever you need to to get everything working with them.

[@Tomatofury]

+Mark Bowyer ohh, I didn't know, gonna try it - thanks mate

[@gonzomuse]

You're welcome!

[@ChristianIce]

+Mark I don't agree. You nearly always have to flip one of the snare mics, because they are at a very similar distance from the snare and with an opposite direction, but the Overheads may be placed at 80 cm from the snare or 2 meters, depends the sound you want, and with so much distance difference the signal will have a physical delay, so what you'll get in terms of phases is to be checked case by case.

[@cameronmurphy5850]

Maybe because the over heads are under the cymbals. There for making more sense to reverse the top and keep the bottom the same as the underhead polarity.

[@oneandonlyescaton9927]

you have to determine phase by ear. not just flip the bottom mic because you think you have to... also, they have underheads... not overheads

[@ianmacgregor1377]

ALL decisions made by ear. ALWAYS. Experience helps when you've got an expensive studio/musician/band on the floor ready to go.

[@SteveStockmalMusic]

Most people don’t... Phase is the issue, polarity is how to fix it... Correct?

[@GeoffBosco]

At about 2:14 he said, "...droom..." Imma take a stab in the dark that that slip was caused by the fact that he names his drum room track's in Protools droom. lol I have these kind of brain farts all the time.

[@CRE8TION2INFINITY]

God's kick drum..lol

[@LukeJF89]

Flip the snare top? This makes no sense, its the snare bottom that needs to be flipped otherwise the whole snare will be out of phase with the rest of the kit, same goes with toms.

[@gonzomuse]

Nahh mate, you need to focus on your Overheads to base your phase on. The top snare will need to be flipped to fit with the overheads. Although not always, but more often than not.

[@James-Chapman-Drums]

I used to think this. But when i started getting most of my drum sounds from the overheads, flipping the top mic keeps the phase correct with them. It completely depends on the situation.

[@panic7615]

All that gear, and he's still eq'ing the crap out of everything. :(

[@danlosd]

which is the microphone over the kickdrum and beside the tom?