Introduction to the Divine Liturgy

A brief look at what happens in the ancient Orthodox Divine Liturgy, as well as a few things to expect when you visit. The Liturgy might be the biggest subject this channel has covered, and it is an impossible topic to cover properly in a video. The absolute best (and only) way to learn about it is to COME AND SEE. Visit an Orthodox Church.
LINKS:
"12 things I wish I'd known before visiting an Orthodox Church" by Matushka Frederica Mathewes-Green: www.frederica.com/12-things/
An overview of the Liturgy by Matushka Frederica Mathewes-Green: • An Overview of the Ort...
An intro to the Liturgy by Fr Theophan Mackey by @RootsofOrthodoxy : • How Orthodox Christian...
What is the Liturgy by Fr Conan Gill: • Journey To Orthodox Ch...
How to become Orthodox by @BibleIllustrated: • How to Become an Ortho...
Our video about John Chrysostom, author of the Divine Liturgy used by Orthodox most Sundays: • Video
If you're far away from Orthodox Churches, the Fellowship of Saint Theophan, run by Fr Andrew Jarmus, holds regular online meetings: www.bdoca.org/fostr.html
Fr Andrew has an excellent and understandable channel of Orthodox material here: / @fr.ajarmus
Intro to Orthodoxy by @JonathanPageau : • Orthodox Christianity ...
A site to help you find more about Orthodoxy and an Orthodox Church (mainly USA, but if you're in another country they can help too): www.orthodoxintro.org/
A list of English-language Orthodox Churches in Australia: orthodoxyinaustralia.com/chur...
If you're after a book, consider 'The Orthodox Church' by Timothy (Bishop Kallistos) Ware, an excellent introduction to Orthodoxy.
Please consider a monthly donation towards the continuation of this channel: ko-fi.com/patristix
You can also help us by getting Patristix graphic designs on ALL SORTS of merch at our Redbubble shop: www.redbubble.com/people/patr...
Also follow us on social media for cool graphics, pictures and info:
Facebook - / patristix
Instagram - / patristixgram
Twitter - / patristix

[@Patristix]

If you're enjoying the videos on this channel, consider supporting their continuation with a monthly 'cup of tea' here: ko-fi.com/patristix

[@GGME7777]

Thank you so much for the video, and I have a question, why Catholic use unleavened bread in the "mass" which I don't even know what it means but anyway, were the early church fathers using unleavened bread in the Divine Liturgy ? Thank you,

[@Roma_901]

I recent left Protestantism for Orthodoxy and I remember the first Divine Liturgy I attended. It knocked my socks off and left me speechless. My only regret was that I hadn’t experienced it much sooner than I did!

[@somerandomguyonyt8766]

As is often the case for Protestants I hear. They want to debate over all these doctrines and dogmas. If only they attended a liturgy and felt the true grace of God. 😢

[@andys3035]

I had the same experience. I attend a Greek Orthodox Church and I love how the Liturgy is done half in Greek. Its beautiful. I was baptized and crismated last April.

[@nlspowers]

Agreed! I first watched my local parish's liturgy online, which was wonderful. The next week I attended in person and it blew my mind. I nearly cried. Psalms has always been one of my favorite books of the Bible and to hear it used so thoroughly throughout the service was positively beyond words for me. There is still a degree of wonder and amazement for me even after having attended regularly for several months.

[@RealLeFishe]

I came from an evangelical background and recently attended my first Saturday Vesper a few months ago. I was astounded by its beauty and reverence and truly felt like I was in the presence of Christ.

[@BookofAkathists]

It’s time to come home. Let’s do this. You will be welcomed with love. Come see.

[@appalachianorthodox]

Dude, as an Orthodox catechumen, this is my new favorite channel on all the internet. God bless you for what you’re doing. ☦️

[@mrsnkg7904]

Became Orthodox 20+ years ago. Still learning at every Divine Liturgy. Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner 💖🙏

[@paulmelonas7263]

The value of this video is beyond measure. I am a 77 yr. old man who was born into a Greek Orthodox family who never wanted me to learn the Greek language for fear it might hamper me from becoming a successful American. As a result I left the church because I couldn't understand what was being said during the liturgy. I didn't know what the liturgy was about, so I left the Church. I am seeking to reconnenct with Orthodoxy hoping I can find an English speaking Church. This video has been a great help in understanding what the liturgy is. THANK YOU..

[@Patristix]

The liturgy is a true treasure! God bless!

[@Jtryan123]

Most of our churches are all English! Even the Greek and Russian churches are mostly English and will welcome you home! I am an American convert and all of our parishes have always welcomed me and my family! Many blessings on your journey! 😊☦️

[@huntz0r]

There is a great little book written in the 14th century, Commentary on the Divine Liturgy by Nicholas Cabasilas. It will open your eyes to so much that is going on in the service. God bless you and your journey home!

[@ValidityJ]

Your family did you a favor. By not teaching you Greek, they put you in a position of humility as well as compassion for non-language speakers. Trust me when I tell you, as an American convert, I have dealt with wonderful Greek speaking people at Church but I have dealt with a fair share of terrible so called "Christians" who speak Greek. Literally, one made me, a grown woman cry, with how privileged and exclusionary this woman was towards me because I'm not Greek & I don't speak the Greek language. Thank God for your family. Go to Church. It doesn't matter Greek, Russian, OCA, ..... JUST GET TO CHURCH. That is your "reconnection". God is waiting on you.

[@paulmelonas7263]

@@ValidityJ I respectfully disagree. Imposing humility on a child isn't the right of a parent. Humility is suppose to be a choice. In addition and in honesty compassion for non language speakers is a moot point. It's not compassion I have for non speakers but a conviction that clinging to a foreign language in an American church is as silly as an English speaking church moving to Greece or Russia and clinging to only speaking English. Again I respectfully offer that to "connect" to Orthodoxy simply to connect while not understanding a word is rediculous. I don't want to one day stand before God and say, "regardless of not understanding anything that was said, I was at least in the right location.

[@AntokuMoruzi]

The Liturgy in Orthodoxy is like us who are invited at God's House to talk with Him no matter what. His invitation is free, is unlimited and it brings an awesome vibe into our souls each tine when it happens! Gid bless you guys, from an Romanian-Japanese Orthodox Christian!☦️❤️🥰

[@szudy76]

I was made a Catechumen last Sunday ❤ pray for me

[@lindaphillips4646]

☦💝☦THAT IS WONDERFUL! SO HAPPY FOR YOU..☦💝📿💝☦

[@catherinezurmuehl4498]

In 2007 was my first time in the Orthodox Church and never left it. In 2008 my son and I became Orthodox. My background was the church of Christ never felt God there. I was born and raised in that church but the Orthodox Church it was a WOW i never ever thank God before until I walked into the Orthodox Church.

[@lindaphillips4646]

Hi. My husband and i were received into the Orthodox Church about 20 years ago. I understand about the church you were in. Know it/knew it very well. As much as i loved the people, something was missing. It took a long time.. (starts and stops) to find the Orthodox Church. Long story.. but one day i came home after being at an Orthodox Church for a month or so, and when my husband greeted me (he had to be another place) and asked me how it had been that day, i found that i broke down in tears, and said, "I've found it. I've finally found it!". ☦💝📿💝☦

[@cozzwozzle]

For anyone that attends a liturgy that is not in English, with a book you can follow along as it’s always the same structure, and over time you will begin to be able to participate more and more as you become familiar with it. Often I enjoy when the liturgy at my Church is in Greek, because it allows me to just be with Christ without being distracted by the particular words that are being spoken at the time. Your attendance over time might be a part of the reason why the priest ends up using bits of English here and there to help people stay on track. Have patience and trust in the Lord.

[@NaturesEyesAndMouth]

I arrived on my church's door step last Wednesday. Little did I know it was holy week. I went the next six days finishing bright Tuesday today. Father allowed us to come up but cannot take from the communion cup but he allowed us to kiss the cup and he blessed us and gave us some of the bread.

[@MariMari-no3zy]

you cannot get communion without confessing your sins to the priest. When you feel ready, go talk to the priest about it. I promise, once you confess, your soul will feel lighter. Aftre you get communion, you will feel different. God's grace is good. Good luck!

[@NaturesEyesAndMouth]

@@MariMari-no3zy I have been messaging my priest about everything. I mentioned confession yesterday before I seen your message. Truly a miracle you said this because I feel you are correct. I feel a burden on my body and mind and spirit that I want to let go of.

[@SomePeopleCallMeWulfman]

This video makes me want to attend Divine Liturgy right now.

[@lindaphillips4646]

I hope you have had a chance to go to one since you left this note.☦💝☦

[@basilmakedon]

I like going to a parish without seats. Made it so I never had to guess when it was ok to sit

[@1988bogdana]

I was born in Orthodoxy and i appreciate this video. My husband who is a Reader in Orthodox Church now felt very strongly against the Divine Liturgy The very first time he visited with my family . He was a Southern Baptist . It took him almost 5 years, but he came to the true church eventually.I still remember his shocked face after his first liturgy at Antioch church. I wish I had this video back then to prepare him.

[@huntz0r]

For anyone wanting to know more about the liturgy - first, start attending. Then while you attend, read through Commentary on the Divine Liturgy by Nicholas Cabasilas. This book is an absolute treasure. Written in the 14th century, it’s an easy read and describes almost exactly what you’ll see in any Orthodox parish today.

[@HomoEucharistica]

There are times when I'm not so deeply involved in prayers (Lord have mercy), but I have never once been bored in the divine liturgy, but every time my spirit is renewed and uplifted, at least a bit.

[@michaellam9819]

When I attended my first church service ever, it was the Divine Liturgy at a monetary. I had no idea how the service would go or how worship work. As soon as the Nun started singing, golden light came through the windows and I wept like a baby. I stopped half way through but then I saw the same gold light shine from the Bible when the priest carried it around! Blessed are you Lord, our God !!!

[@JoelFuhrmann]

Very timely ! I'm taking a class in Byzantine Chant at my church, and tonight we took a break from chanting to learn about the Divine Liturgy, it's structure and history. And when coming home, seeing this! One of the culture clashes I dealt with when first attending a liturgy was the priest praying while other things are going on, censing, chanting. At first it was a distraction, but after I had attended a few times (it was three visits over the course of one year before I decided to start attending full-time and becoming a catechumen five years ago), it's now very meaningful

[@Max_Pilgrim]

Looking very dapper today Mr. Patristix

[@dimitritriantafyllides682]

He had to put on his Sunday's best.

[@kosmokramer5420]

The doors the doors

[@peter5530]

With wisdom, let us attend

[@peter5530]

With wisdom, let us attend

[@peter5530]

With wisdom, let us attend

[@peter5530]

With wisdom, let us attend

[@peter5530]

With wisdom, let us attend

[@lou894]

This was a spectacular video, thank you sir! I am attending my first ever Divine Liturgy in a few hours, I cannot wait 🥰 I've been torn between converting to Orthodoxy or Catholicism for the past few months, but theologically speaking, Orthodoxy seems to hit the mark the most. I wonder how the service will feel like. !!

[@carolemaguire644]

I love your videos ! Thank you so much for all you share. I am learning so much and want to find out more. I am planning to visit my small, local Orthodox church. I thought I should start with Vespers and work my way up to The Divine Liturgy. At 63 years old, I only hope that I'm not too old to embrace all that The Orthodox Church offers.

[@Patristix]

Absolutely never too old for Orthodoxy! Vespers is an excellent service to start with. God bless!

[@travis5134]

Thank you so much I will be attending an Orthodox Church for the first time this week.

[@roberthilsdon3900]

Thank you again. It explained a lot that is going on in the service.

[@johanvandersandt8904]

This is still something I wish to do someday.

[@TheBlinky81]

Go ahead and do it then!!

[@stephanzander1087]

Hello there, just taking the time to tell you that I really enjoy watching your videos, and that is instead of just listening to them, as I often do with other videos. I love the graphics for their air of antiquity, the cosy atmosphere you create in the place where you film, and the tea bits. Also, your videos seem serious and authentic, but never stern or judgemental, always with a grain of humour. As a German Lutheran, I do learn a lot from them, because they give some very important and interesting insights into Orthodox Christianity in a nutshell. In September 2023 I attended a Russian Orthodox Saturday Evening Service and in summer 2022 a Coptic Divine Liturgy where the bishop asked me to read out the story of St. Marina/Marinus, the only monk depicted holding a baby, and where my wife and I had an in-depth talk with a man about his faith. Therefore, it was a treat for me to see and recognise parts of the Liturgy and church building in your video, reminding me of these experiences. I have a few questions that have interested me for quite a while now, if I may: How do you think is it that after the Great Schism, Orthodoxy does not seem to have seen any more major schisms? Are most of the Orthodox Christians just content, do they just not voice their discontent, or are they more able to do so without being disciplined, thus giving them the possibility of “letting off steam” if need be, before discontent “erupts” into some sort of reformation? You do not have a pope, so how is such a great amount of unity achieved, although there do seem to be conflicts? I’m especially thinking of the recent conflict concerning a new council planned to take place in Cyprus, as far as I remember, or the conflict between the Patriarchate of Kyiv and that of Moscow. Or can it just be that the principle of universality, antiquity, and consent leads to a dogma being established only after it has been widely discussed, checked, and accepted before it even becomes a dogma? That way, a reformation after establishing said dogma would not be necessary, because everything would have been said before establishing said dogma. Thanks a lot if I you allow me to stay in contact and could find an answer to the questions mentioned above and thanks again for your videos. Be blessed! Stephan Zander (who enjoys the one or other cup of East Frisian tea)

[@user-ti8qv5xg8t]

I love your podcasts and get excited when a new one is ready. Its a family affair.

[@heidicherry4001]

I have been going to orthodox services for awhile.. I knew some of the basics, but this helped my understanding of the service. I will attend my first Catechumen class tonight. I had been attending a megachurch for the past 17 years. The rock concert/motivational speaker vibe was pushing me away from my faith. I missed liturgical services. Though I was raised Catholic, I didn’t want to go back to the Catholic Church. (For various reasons). I am looking forward to learning more. Thanks for this video.

[@danielstepus9519]

Excellent work guys!!! Don’t stop!! you’re doing a great job of showing the wonder, depth and mystery of the living church that Christ established. And God bless you for always pointing people away from internet orthodoxy and into the church. Thank you and Glory to God for all things.

[@HonkeyHero18]

I have a pretty good idea for a series of videos you guys can do for the future. What if you guys did a video for each of the different liturgies that are/used to be performed in the church? Like one video on the liturgy of St. James, one of the St. Mark litirgy, the St. Gregory one, a video on the St. Basil one, St. Chrysostom one, St. Tikhon liturgy, etc etc. I think thatd be really cool to see. The differences of each explained, the history behind them, what makes them unique, what woukd make one specirc liturgy performed under what circumstances, thatd be really awesome.

[@marcustulliuscicero9512]

Would love to see that as well, maybe as just one video though comparing them and giving a run down of the history.

[@Patristix]

Will bear that idea in mind! Though honestly just making this single one was a real challenge!

[@ValidityJ]

​@@Patristix I SECOND HIS MOTION!!!!

[@acekoala457]

Matins does have a lot happening for those who have put it together. Liturgics are fun for the whole family. Also Matins/Vigil is a reflection of the Burial of Christ as the Priest reads the Gospel on the Altar in the same way he reads it on the tomb during Holy Week.

[@Patristix]

"Liturgics are fun for the whole family" is a great line

[@useyournous]

Excellent !! thank you.

[@KatWomanHikes]

Very well done! ❤

[@WhoCaresHistory]

It’s so hard to explain how the liturgy transcends space and time…until to you go to one. The Lord is King and hath clothed himself with majesty!

[@jessicadadashov7366]

I appreciate this channel. Thank you!

[@d.aletadrawdy7584]

Thank You 🙏

[@kimberlyrichardson2848]

This was incredibly helpful! Thank you so much!

[@gustavoruiz6030]

This video came out in a perfect timing for me. God bless you.

[@charleshogg5459]

This was excellent. Thank you!

[@thegoldenthread]

Thank you. So well done, a great resource. God bless you.

[@siddharthabanerjee6155]

This was absolutely fascinating. The Divine Liturgy is what fascinates me the most about Orthodoxy. There are no Eastern Orthodox churches where I live, but I've been planning on visiting a Malankara Orthodox Syrian liturgy. I assume it will be at least somewhat similar. Great video as always.

[@kyledawson4535]

It will be similar but also very different. The Syrian church is Oriental Orthodox, they broke off from the rest of the church in AD 431. So they have developed there own customs in kind of a bubble from the rest of the orthdox, same with the Coptic Church and the Ethiopian Church. The Roman cathlic church used to practice the same liturgy as the east. Eastern Catholics still do for the most part. But the Roman catholic church as a whole developed into a very western affair.

[@siddharthabanerjee6155]

@@kyledawson4535 Oh yes, I'm aware of that. I have also visited a Catholic liturgy once or twice.

[@robintropper660]

Don’t be nervous: very well presented!

[@guyparker1749]

Thank you..

[@specialcombatdefensivetact1784]

Excellent very helpful.

[@serenasztein5065]

Thank you

[@ellykakuk3885]

Well done 👌

[@lancefreeman5757]

This sounds Amazing 🤩 would love to go one day!

[@Patristix]

Please do!

[@FatherAndTeacherTV]

Again, this is great!

[@Patristix]

Thank you, friend!

[@cpucilowski]

I don’t even drink tea and yet … I love this podcast so much, I may have to begin. Do I need to get a spoiled cat too, to sit on my lap while I listen??

[@Patristix]

Cats are entirely optional, but definitely try some tea

[@Terri7665]

🙏☦️❤️

[@LagspikeTVOnTwitch]

Love your videos!! Have you done one on the Harrowing of Hades?

[@Patristix]

Thank you! We have one on the Resurrection Icon which touches on it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4DOfWRnfbqkqMk

[@WilliamDusing]

❤

[@JM-in4jn]

Just a reminder - we Eastern Rite Catholics exist and we celebrate the Divine Liturgy also!

[@blahblah4129]

Thank you, God, for being born into Orthodox Christianity. 🙏 ☦

[@littlefishbigmountain]

A very, very small note-and I don’t mean to nitpick, I’m merely curious-at 8:18, although those doors are sometimes referred to as the Royal Doors, more specifically they are the Holy Doors while the Royal Doors are those between the Narthex and the Nave. This is what I’ve read in my research following up this video, anyways. (rewatching) My question is, is that correct or not really? Again, I’m not trying to make a big deal or anything. I’m just learning, and as a result am getting questions-as this video teaches is exactly normal

[@philliponfri7938]

I have a question. So I'm about to attend an Orthodox church for the first time. I was baptized in the catholic church as a kid. Does this mean I can't take the eucharist and or that I'm not considered baptized and need to do it again?

[@Patristix]

Communion in Orthodoxy is only for Orthodox Christians who have made preparation for receiving the Eucharist. So don't take communion, but at the end of the service you're welcome to come to the cross for a blessing. Chat with the priest for more information about becoming Orthodox etc. God bless!

[@philliponfri7938]

@@Patristix Hmm, ok thanks

[@Caleb.S.Spangenberg]

Sounds good. But, the early Church included a bit more in their worship services, such as tongues and prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:26-10). Furthermore, they would read any new epistles written to them (I assume your Apostolic Successors write epistles to their churches to keep them holy and in order). Where are these in the service? (I would consider myself Orthodox, although I'm physically unable to join the Church as of yet, being in high school and my family being unorthodox.)

[@Patristix]

When the priest receives an epistle from his bishop it will most often be read at the end of the service. Nowadays it arrives by email, but the process continues

[@Caleb.S.Spangenberg]

@@Patristix Thank you, brother, sir!

[@MrBJYates]

Another question-sorry! Near the end of the video, it’s mentioned that when you kiss the cross, you are kissing Christ. I’m a Protestant, so I have little understanding of these concepts. Is this kind of like venerating an icon, but it’s a cross? Or is it like the Catholic idea of transubstantiation, where the cross becomes Jesus? I mean no disrespect; I just wanted more info on that! Thanks!

[@acekoala457]

Symbols are reflective of the Spiritual Reality. So the honor we give Symbols, Icons, Crosses and even the Scriptures, is Honor given to He who gave us these things. In the same way we give dishonor to another is dishonor given to God.

[@MrBJYates]

Thank you so much for clearing that up for me! I didn’t know that there was an observation of symbols & the scriptures that respect was showed for-I had only heard about icons.

[@dimitritriantafyllides682]

@@MrBJYates Imagine if you held on to a piece of clothing of a lost loved one. You'd hug it and even kiss it, not because it is the person, but because through it you remember and honor/love that person. God bless!

[@MrBJYates]

Thanks so much for the beautiful description! All these responses help me understand things a bit more

[@AshOzer]

What if there are no Orthodox churches near me? There is only one church in my area and it's protestant. 😬 I just came back to God after 20 years and I'm just falling in love with orthodoxy. I just don't know how to do this without a church.

[@Patristix]

You might want to check out Fr Andrew Jarmus' online ministry "The Fellowship of Saint Theophan the Recluse", which regularly sends out emails and has monthly zoom meetings about the faith: fostrorthodoxy.podia.com He can also address these types of questions. God bless!

[@AshOzer]

@@Patristix Thank you so much! I just emailed Father Andrew! God Bless you my friend!

[@AshOzer]

@@Patristix can I just say thank you again!? I joined an online meeting and it was incredible. Already so much better than I expected. And Father Andrew is rather friendly and I can feel his wisdom when he speaks. You didn't have to help me and you did, I thank God for you and pray he pours upon you his blessings! As well as Fr. Andrew! God bless you 🙏

[@Patristix]

@@AshOzer So glad to hear! We love Fr Andrew a lot. God bless you on your journey!

[@carlosbatiz1002]

I used to see a priest celebrate the Divine Liturgy by himself every day. No congregation… I did some research and it seems like that is allowed but having a congregation is encouraged.

[@robyngrieve5495]

As I understand it, a priest never celebrates Divine Liturgy alone, since he is surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, the angels, and the Lord Jesus Christ is also present.

[@phoenixoliviacopy2727]

So it always happens on Sundays?

[@Patristix]

Every single Sunday of every single year, for centuries now. Plus on other special days during the week and in some places even more often than that!

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

Can you do a video on hagiography? I know many secular historians and even many Christians might assume they are pure myth due to the unlikely symbolism and miracles. Before I was Christian I would have thought the same. My journey to Christ, while not as grand as a saint's life, was and continues to be a very profound experience where symbolism became real experience and signs and small miracles really happened, which leaves me very willing to take hagiography at face value. Then the other day I read about a first century Irish saint - Muirgen. She was said to be a 300 year old mermaid... This seems unlikely to me. So I am keen to better understand just how to interpret Orthodox hagiography. Is this a reason to dismiss this entry in St Oengus' martyrology, or is she a real saint being explained according to symbolic language, or do mermaids actually exist?

[@HomoEucharistica]

Perhaps the most important detail to remember is that people who has written these hagiographies lived in the symbolic world (Jonathan Pageau would probably have much to say on this) and there are always legendary aspects and narratives among factual events and different accounts - and there's no need to differentiate them because they all are true in spiritual sense. For instance, we believe and teach that Holy Theotokos went to the holy of holies in the temple, even though that likely didn't happen historically. But this detail is true because Mary became the new "holy of holies" because she bore God in her womb, and thus the old temple and "new temple" faced each other. And because Mary became God-bearer, she did go to the holy of holies in a certain sense - not historically but symbolically. Similarly, the earliest accounts about St Muirgen don't mention she was (or became) a mermaid, so it's likely a later legend... But that story is true and it DID HAPPEN in spiritual sense, and it has important things to say. Mermaids and monsters are a central part of periphery and edges of the world (and Britain was at the edge of the world at that time), and being/becoming a monstrous human expresses one's inner features and fallen state (cf. cannibalism and Wendigo). Similarly, deep waters are symbol of darkness and death. But then the light of Christ arrives and lifts people from the dark pit and heals them and makes them "living humans again".

[@HomoEucharistica]

...But it's always possible, of course, that Muirgen did actually become a mermaid (she meant to become a fish, though) and lived for centuries etc. If the wizards of Pharaoh were able to make their staffs to become snakes, I guess it's theoretically plausible to make a woman to become a mermaid... Whether it's true or not and on what level, only God knows. But that's irrelevant.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@HomoEucharistica Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. That's very helpful to consider. As a matter of interest, do you have a source for St. Muirgen not being a mermaid earlier on? I ask only because I'm trying to collect all the Orthodox saints of Ireland, not because I want to just dodge the question lol.

[@HomoEucharistica]

@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 My information about St Muirgen is second hand knowledge because I have not read any original sources by myself (and therefore it's possible to be mistaken). But according to my sources, the earliest accounts of St Muirgen would be *_The Annals of the Four Masters_* (AD 558) and *_The Annals of Ulster_* (AD 571).

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@HomoEucharistica Oh thanks. I thought they were much younger but I realise now I was looking at compilation date so this explains a few questions I had about other people using them. Thanks!

[@AustinHannah-yd7fr]

I wish I could join the Orthodox Church, but I fear I would never be accepted. I have a girlfriend, who I do intend to marry one day, who lives with me and takes care of our home while I work. But from all I’ve read, us living together is totally forbidden. There really isn’t an alternative as far as a living situation for her. This house has always been our home. And if I were to marry her, I kinda wouldn’t really want it done outside the orthodoxy

[@Patristix]

All I can say is: come and see. Find an Orthodox community and arrange a direct chat with the priest about where you are at. That's a good first step!

[@ishiftfocus1769]

Err.

[@mrscream2028]

I'm an inquirer from Sydney and I've found it quite difficult to be honest. The Church feels like an ethnic in-group with no real care for making non-ethnics feel welcome, including a severe lack of English liturgies which just makes Church difficult because you're listening to something you don't understand at all. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it hurts so much to find the truth, only to feel like you don't belong.

[@Patristix]

I hear and feel you. It's not easy in Australia, and while things are changing it can be discouraging. You are not alone in this feeling by any means. But I promise you, you are more than welcome in the Orthodox Church. I do know of the following Sydney Churches doing things in English, though have no personal experiences. Saints Michael and Gabriel in Ryde: smg.org.au Saint Gregory the Theologian in Mona Vale: facebook.com/sgtmission/ Saint Michael in Homebush: www.stmichaelshomebush.org.au Also to mention is the Greek Orthodox church of the Archangel Michael in Crows Nest. The service is a mix of Greek with English, and mostly serves the Greek community, but Fr Timothy there is a friend of ours and a good man to talk to about the journey into Orthodoxy. greekorthodox.org.au/churches/st-michael/ May God be with you, fellow Aussie.

[@mrscream2028]

@@Patristix thank you so much for the reply. I will consider it providential that you have recommended Father Timothy, since he is my current hope. I’ve met him and attended his Church regularly, it seems like he is the best fit for my wife and I so far. He and a few of the younger men at the Parish have been very welcoming. I will check out the other Churches you mentioned. I hope my wife and I can be a part of the next step for Orthodoxy in Australia. Thank you again, God bless you and the work you do. Blessed Pascha.

[@famvids9627]

One thing I will say is be prepared to experience prejudism based on nationalism... Many of the orthodox churches, if not, most have a problem with nationalism. When I first entered a Coptic orthodox church. I tried to ask the priest questions and strike up a conversation. But he completely ignored me because I wasn't Egyptian. I have a good friend who's a sub Deacon. In the Armenian orthodox church and again, he'll never be allowed to be a priest, even that he would make a great priest because he is not Armenian, and There are many more roadblocks for people that fall outside of these nationalist guidelines... They might be unwritten rules, but they're definitely social ones. I'm not saying that this should hinder anybody, but I'm saying that it is one of the things that the devil puts in our path to hinder us. In fact, it's such a problem that several of the patriarchs of the various orthodox churches have addressed the problem publicly. However, there are many holy priests that see that problem, and they do address it.

[@ruspesca8443]

That's a human problem. Mundane, not the church.

[@christianbaxter_yt]

“Ancient Christianity - est 2022” 😅