IP over AC: Mmmmmm Ppppfffftttt SssshhhhhhhWOOOSH

I needed better home internet, so I used a plastic bag and a long string.
Please DON'T try this at home. It works here, but there are a lot of ways you can screw up your house doing this.
Be sure to check out the subreddit: / trytryagain
Music in this video:
I Dunno by grapes is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...) ccmixter.org/files/grapes/16626

[@AlphaPhoenixChannel]

FAQs and Corrections: 1) Don't try this at home! 2) ...

[@c0rr4nh0rn]

Thanks for the demo!

[@professortrog7742]

Nah, did this 14 years ago, works fine.

[@palleppalsson]

Already on 4) Profit.

[@PlayerXIII]

Why not powerline Ethernet, aka internet over power outlet? Do you have any insight over how lossy those signals get?

[@sleepib]

Should probably mention plenum rated cable is what you're supposed to use inside air ducts.

[@MacGuffin1]

I was expecting an April Fools Day joke about modulating AirCon fan to TX and RX data.....

Same 😅

[@AlphaPhoenixChannel]

Considered this…

[@lbgstzockt8493]

Or about using the AC duct as an RF waveguide

[@RagaarAshnod]

Missed opportunity

[@SebastianGrans]

RFC 1149

[@finjcam]

Fun fact: IPoAC stands for something else too! It also means IP over Avian Carriers, a (obviously not serious) protocol that takes advantage of the flight speed of birds like carrier pigeons, combined with the storage density of things like 1tb microsd cards. In certain circumstances, it would be faster in theory than most modern IP implementations.

[@rykehuss3435]

Dont they already do this in some cases? just not with pigeons, but airplanes. Faster to pack up all hard drives and air ship them than move the data over the internet

[@EmbSys]

Nice one!

[@OneHappyCrazyPerson]

Thats intentional referense to and older april Fools joke.

[@TWDragonflyTommy]

"This image is an example of packet loss."

[@zeronezerone3659]

HTTP-D involves Donkeys carrying your packets.

[@insanecreeper9000]

I fully expect an investigation of seriously implementing IPoAC using pressure sensors and modulating fan speed in the future. Maybe we should call Tom7?

[@AlphaPhoenixChannel]

Is that the harder drives guy? I love that channel

[@insanecreeper9000]

@@AlphaPhoenixChannel That is the harder drives guy! A very entertaining channel indeed.

[@asj3419]

Its the first of april after all, which is usually around when he uploads, so that's nice.

[@noneuklid]

If only we could tag @suckerpinch

[@gloverelaxis]

the absolute GOAT of harebrained yet devilishly clever computational shenanigans

[@dmytrochaika7570]

In the current world where every channel is expected to have fancy professional lighting, cameras, set design, etc., I absolutely love how this channel keeps the spirit of the good old KZbin alive.

[@zaneworldslayer]

My favorite part about back of the napkin equations is making up the variables you don't know!

[@AlphaPhoenixChannel]

PHYSICS

[@EggBastion]

didn't someone sensible do a video on making educated assumptions about variables? maybe I'm getting confused with a post on a blog somewhere... wait, it might be a chapter or just a paragraph from Randall Munroe's 'What if?'

[@maxwell-lt]

@@EggBastion What if? uses Fermi Estimation frequently.

[@nohbudinose]

@@AlphaPhoenixChannel Just turned in a Thermo midterm with a bunch of scratch about order of magnitude estimates to generate some graph shapes for S over U..... I have no shame.

[@kindlin]

@@EggBastion Kyle did a video on Fermi Estimation when he went over to his own channel after Because Science.

[@KalebSmart]

I actually did this with a telephone cable for my uncle in 2020. I ended up using plenum cable so I wouldn't be inhaling toxic fumes if the cable ever caught on fire. It worked surprisingly well, though!

[@gwc1410]

I just learned about plenum cable.👍

[@Beef4Dinner22]

Yeah, I was curious if he was going to use a plenum (CMP) rated cable, but it looked like it was just an off the shelf (admittedly long) Ethernet patch cable that likely is only rated as a riser cable (CMR), if it is rated at all. To anyone not aware, CMP cables are for areas with forced airflow, like air ducts or the areas above a drop ceiling on commercial spaces. CMR cables are for areas without forced air flow, like inside 2x4 framed walls. CMR cables are cheaper, but CMP cables do not combust and will not cause fires themselves. In an environment like an air duct with lots of air, and this lots of oxygen, using CMP cables is much better (and is actually required by most building codes).

[@magingace5199]

HVAC Design Engineer here! I typically see supply fans push between 1 to 4 "in w.c." (inch water column) which is between 0.036 and 0.144 psi, so your assumption of 0.1 psi is perfectly valid! Might be a little high for residential applications but I doubt there is a significant difference between 2 and 5 lbs :D

[@AlphaPhoenixChannel]

Whooooo napkin math!

[@klikkolee]

make sure you use a plenum-rated cable! otherwise it's a fire hazard. Air handling spaces can stoke fires and move combustion products around, so cables in air handling spaces need special insulation that is extra fire resistant and which doesn't off-gas as much when exposed to fire.

[@gorak9000]

That's really only appicable to office buildings, where the whole area above the dropped ceiling is the air return plenum, and there's TONS of ethernet cables up there. In a house, it really doesn't make much difference. Your furnace isn't running all the time like the HVAC is in a commercial building, and secondly, if the house is on fire, outside is very close (as opposed to possibly many flights of stairs down in an office building), there's very few peple in a house, and there's already tons of other plastic burning (because almost everything in a house is plastic), so what difference is one ethernet cable going to make.

[@gorak9000]

@@klikkolee I bet your fun at parties too - do you literally follow the instructions on the side of the shampoo bottle exactly too? Wet hair, apply soap. lather, rinse, repeat? Do whatever you want, but I maintain that one or 2 ethernet cables in a duct in a house will make absolutely zero meaningful difference if your house is on fire anyway. Enjoy paying 2x the cost for your cables!

[@Nelo390]

@@gorak9000 What else would you do with shampoo???!!??!?!?

[@Andrew_Fernie]

@@Nelo390 It's actually great on toast.

[@pseudonymity0000]

​@@klikkolee Question. In what scenario have you ever heard of an Ethernet cable catching on fire? Because the only scenario I can think of is if you're running POE through the cable, or there is already a fire elsewhere that is raging enough to catch the cable in the ductwork. Other than that, it is just a simple data cable running at low current and voltage, just enough to send a signal, and is considered a low fire risk even if broken. This regulation makes sense should a cable be delivering power to a device or appliance within the ductwork, because you never know if a rodent would get in there and chew it, or it may flap about when air is flowing on a corner and cause a small break. This can lead to an arc fault, and the extra air flow could stoke the burning plastic where the arcing is occurring. But the power potential in a data only cable is so small, an arc would be unlikely and the fire risk is low. If the concern is temperature. Well, Ethernet cables are rated for a temperature of 167°F or 60°C. So, unless the run is started literally right next to the furnace, I think the cable will be fine. Even then, the outlet of a furnace is typically 140°F-170°F for older furnaces. But it is more likely most furnaces nowadays would be higher efficiency units that operate at 110°F-140°F right at the outlet. Finally, if the concern is if the cable catches fire because of an already existing fire. Plenum rated Ethernet cables are specifically coated in polyvinyl chloride or PVC, because it's considered low smoke and low in halogens. However, you'll be hard to find an Ethernet cable that isn't coated in PVC anyway, even if it is not gone through the expense to be certified as plenum rated. So, using plenum rated cable is a bit of an overreaction to this. However, I would say that if you're planning to run PoE cable, then yes. Running your Ethernet setup through ductwork would be ill-advised.

[@sam-ur7rz]

As a last resort not a bad idea, but definitely use plenum cable if you can just to reduce the risk of fire and to withstand the humidity/temperature deviations.

[@zyeborm]

Plenum cable isn't lower fire risk. It just makes less toxic smoke if it's in a fire. If you have a fire in the ac ducting of your average house there's going to be way way more toxic stuff going on than one cable to worry about. The actual use case for that stuff is where smoke from a fire in a shared air space (plenum) will be able to get to occupied parts of a building before people are able to evacuate. Like yes you could use plenum cable, but the actual gain in any sort of safety in this specific case is infinitesimal.

[@zyeborm]

@@nasonguy so it will be harder to fish out through the ducting?

[@zyeborm]

@@nasonguy how does it bunch when it's being dragged through?

[@zyeborm]

@@nasonguy and if you have a pre terminated cable for the one single run your doing in your house?

[@zyeborm]

@@nasonguy your right, slavish adherence to the rules does when when an individual risk assessment says it doesn't matter

[@eeee69]

First reading the title I was expecting AC to be alternating current (send data via AM/FM?), and then for this to turn into an electroboom-esque video I like that instead of putting "don't try this at home" you put "IF you try this at home" it's much more inviting

[@gorak9000]

They do have ethernet over powerline (AC) adapters - you can buy them off the shelf in the store. I think they even go to gigabit now. Nothing beats real ethernet though...

[@eeee69]

@@gorak9000 cool, the more you know

[@dananskidolf]

@@gorak9000 Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that wasn't everyone's assumption given the ubiquity of such devices. I actually clicked because I thought it sounded too mundane he was just using a powerline and there must be something special going on. I was not disappointed!

[@VcSaJen]

@@gorak9000 Yeah, I thought the title meant that.

thing about April fools videos, is that you just pretend to do the bizarre thing... you know that, right?

[@bengineer8]

I thought this was going to be IP over the power lines based on the 1st words of the title but was pleasantly surprised to see something even better.

[@dietbr00ksy]

Love the project! Look into plenum rating for cables. May want to replace that one if it's not plenum rated. We use this technique in electrical for conduit runs utilizing a shopvac usually. So fun to see it done with A/C ducts. We call the bag on the sting a "mouse".

[@cheater00]

that's a nice idea. but also, I have to tell you, it's easier to catch the cable in the scenario you provided at the beginning, than you think it is. You basically use a hook made out of coat hanger wire... and/or magnets... that's all. You put a metal (magnetic steel) plate on the end of whatever pilot you're feeding through, and use a strong magnet to locate it. It's not hard at all! And you get to play with strong magnets!

[@rpenm]

Insulation makes it much harder to fish. It's also two floors, so he'd have had to find an existing chase or open up the wall to make holes through the bottom plate and any fire blocking.

[@landspide]

A good sparky can do this with yellow tongue.

[@suppermike777]

Making holes in the wall is a life skill. fixing holes in the wall is an even more important life skill

[@variouselite]

And in this scenario are we using 30 foot long drillbits? or whats the plan there?

[@X4Alpha4X]

@@variouselite you would just follow the air gap between the studs, buuut he did say external wall so there would be insulation. you could fish the cable down between the paper and drywall but ideally you would use a non insulated internal wall. then where you want the cable cut a hole for a outlet box and grab the cable and use a ethernet plate.

[@HotClown]

do you ever feel / like a plastic bag flying through a vent / wanting to route some net I was expecting this to be about how those little IP over power adaptors work (or in my case, don't work), but this is great too

[@DaimyoD0]

I thought this was a common practice, because my dad (a network engineer) routed ethernet into my childhood bedroom through the return duct. Not the grocery bag parachute part, obviously. Lol Also, I was today years old when I realized AlphaPhoenix's logo was a phoenix's flight path in the shape of the character alpha (α).

[@eDoc2020]

I thought the grocery bag was a common trick. I've seen it used seriously to pull a string through conduit using a vacuum cleaner.

[@107thFruit]

@AlphaPhoenix Network Engineer here; running copper, or even fiber cable this way is actually not as uncommon as you might think. When ducts are used as paths for cables that pass through plenum, you want to use plenum grade cable which have a flame retardant sheathing. This is especially important in commercial jobs for building codes. I used to work at a college that had steam tunnels that conveniently connected all of the buildings on campus. We had insulated conduit run through the tunnels with plenum grade fiber. As an alternative, for a residential job like this it's possible to leverage EoP (Ethernet Over Power) adapters given the right conditions. However, given how far away your run is the likelihood that you're on the same phase and circuit are pretty much zilch. Another option is point to point wireless bridges. If you can have the two antennas in direct LoS of each other you can traverse the entire length of your house easily, and with a newer 5Ghz high gain antenna you could achieve near 1Gbps (likely the same speed as your internet anyways, and sufficient for LAN transfers).

[@Bllinker]

I thought you were going to pipe RF through the metal ducts

[@custos3249]

Same. Using the ducts as an antenna would've been much more interesting and much more difficult

[@mjouwbuis]

@@custos3249 not really as an antenna, but as a wave duct.

[@acorgiwithacrown467]

Ohhhh I thought you were talking about IP over powerline AC which is a real thing

[@erictheepic5019]

As a complete aside to how goofy this video was (I actually forgot it was the first of April until I checked the comments), that attic ladder location scares me. I have trouble enough getting myself to go up the wobbly ladder in my house, let alone the added fear of falling down a flight of stairs if I do fall! least getting the Christmas decoration downstairs is easy, so long as you don't mind a few broken ornaments each year. A quick edit to append something that's substantially more relevant, but still very tangential; about the pressure the HVAC in your house creates, I once heard a story from someone who did HVAC for large buildings. I forget how it exactly played out, but a building ended up with either exclusively air intakes fans or air outtake fans, I forget which; either way, the fans were creating a significant pressure difference inside the building. So much so that after the HVAC system was turned on, you couldn't leave the building because the door was stuck shut. If you figure it's a door about 2 square meters in area and the pressure is 1 kilopascal, that's like 200 kg of weight being set on the door. The force at the handle is going to be less than that, but I can't bother with doing the integral right now to find whatever it might be.

[@areadenial2343]

Aren't exit doors on buildings supposed to open outwards? That way it's easier to exit during emergency, just by pushing on the door.

[@JayOhm]

​@@areadenial2343 If they were, then all the fans had to be blowing the air out for this to happen. And pushing with even 100kg force (half the total estimated above, if you push at the very edge of the door) would be pretty hard.

[@JayOhm]

Actually, I just remembered, I experienced something just like that in the past. The dorm building I lived in while at Uni is pretty tall, and its shape makes it a very good wind trap. Combined with old windows that are far from sealed, that creates quite some drafts even when the windows are closed. And on one especially windy day, I had to put my leg on the wall and push pretty damn hard against it to pull the door open and leave the room, and I was kinda afraid the door handle might detach in the process. And once the door opened like 2cm wide, enough air just left the room and I almost fell on my back. As a bonus, glass shattered due to wind smashing windows/doors closed/open was lowkey-common there. And I've seen at least one doorframe noticably damaged by wind repeatedly slamming the door really hard. And one time, when the wind was blowing into my room from the corridor, the door force-opened on me when I pushed the handle down, and I heard glass shatter somewhere on the other end of the corridor a few moments later, couldn't help but think that "I did that".

[@markbrown585]

In minneapolis the old metrodome had an inflatable roof that was held up by air pressure. If you left before a game was over, the revolving doors were locked and it was a bear to pull the exit doors open. You were then ejected out with an audible swoosh of fast moving air. Loads of fun for youngsters but a real danger for elderly fans

[@gideon7212]

I actually tried doing this via the intake of my hvac instead a few years ago (I was a kid who was mad at my parents for not letting me drill ethernet through the walls) but my bag kept getting snagged on something before it hit the filter... Also, any good system puts the filter BEFORE the fan, so actually it wouldn't jam the system fan with a grocery bag and gives you a convenient way to get the cable out

[@ThaSPAWN]

As someone who's been working in networking: Those flat LAN cables are shit. There is a reason cable pairs inside regular LANs are twisted, so that their magnetic fields cancel out, and do not influence other pairs. Flat LAN cables do not do that, so they are HEAVILY limited in maximum length. If you notice random ping spikes or packet drops, I would suggest running higher quality cable the other way around. Still, very creative solution, love your videos! :)

[@tad2021]

To run cables down thru walls there are magnet cable pull lines. The floor transitions would require cutting some holes.

[@Arkios64]

Honestly, I expected you to show a LAN to Wall Socket plug system, which we use in our house to cover for the spotty WiFi coverage. And some even weirder stuff, like doing the same thing over the coolant tubes of your AC. The last thing I expected with "IP over AC" was a normal, sensible thing, that anybody could think of.

[@MLeoDaalder]

You know, if you don't have too many HAM radio operators nearby, then you could also use those IP over AC boxes (AC as in Alternating Current). Perhaps better known as Powerline Ethernet. You just plugin your router into one of these boxes at the nearest power outlet, and another of of these boxes at an outlet where you want to use it and plugin in the ethernet cable there.

[@gorak9000]

Or, if you want to find out how many HAM operators live nearby, you run ALL of the IP over powerline you can!

[@Muonium1]

Is this still really a thing? I remember reading about it over 20 years ago before wifi really existed and the transfer speeds were awful.

[@hololightful]

Yes it is still a thing, just less common I'm sure. Plenty of cases where it's better than wifi though.

[@ecospider5]

@Muonium1 They make gigabit over powerline. It works well.

[@zovisapphire]

how exactly does it affect HAM operators?

[@suppermike777]

That cable looks sketchy (flat cable often doesn't have internal pairing twists), on a long throw that passes through and near who knows what i would recommend the highest quality shielded cable you can manage. Additionally, this is a fire code violation, air ducts are for air and secret societies of rats only.

[@suruadamable]

reminds me of my system at home. The Internet comes in through the attic, runs the length of the entire house, and then goes down three floors through an unused chimney into the garage.

[@NC_-ew5ck]

thank u so much for uploading again, missed the content

[@Nobe_Oddy]

That was INGENIOUS!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!! I just explained what you did to my Dad (he's a Grumpy Old Man, so nothing seems to impress or please him lol) and he jaw dropped and he loudly exclaimed "WOW!!! THAT IS INGENIOUS!!!" So I had toto repeat is perfect exclamation!!! This really was AWESOME!

[@JudgeDrD]

saw your new IP over AC video, couple observations: 1. you used a flat cable, and a rather long flat cable, you should change that for a conventional cable to get the EMI protection that is inherent with twisted pair ethernet. 2. You ran the cable inside an air plenum, you should make sure to use Plenum rated cabling. If for whatever reason that insulation ever burns, you’re going to have nasty fumes all over your house And I know said only a couple, but #3 it may have just been easier for you to run a conduit down the side of your house and in through the outside wall on the first floor. Other than that, great video, and be careful next time you close all your air ducts, you could end up blowing an air HVAC duct or damaging your air handler. And for your storage needs, get a Synology Plus series NAS, thank me layer. Ps: posted this on Twitter first but then realized I could just comment on KZbin, lol

[@mrfoodarama]

I Love this! Always creative and fun, love your videos

[@Thomas_Lemmey]

Great idea... I just need to get AC ducting installed so I can follow it with my ethernet 🤔

[@_TheMentor]

What I thought was an April Fools joke ended up being a super useful wiring technique. Huh. I will absolutely be doing this instead of randomly drilling holes.

[@MuradBeybalaev]

Yeah, I expected you to invent a modem that would modulate the Ethernet signal onto the carrier wave of the alternating current in your power grid.

[@steffenvongrabau7260]

This type of modem has been around for years. No need to reinvent the wheel

[@gorak9000]

@@steffenvongrabau7260 Maybe by "invent" he meant "drive to the store and buy one", the same way most people say "cook" when they mean "warmed something up in the microwave for 3 minutes"

[@MuradBeybalaev]

I know, but don't tell him. 😃 Don't you wanna see him reinvent it? You've seen them on the market, but you haven't seen a guy go through the necessary mistakes of trying to design one himself.

[@gorak9000]

@@MuradBeybalaev That would be quite the project indeed. It's not nearly as straightforward as you'd expect. It could be a 30 part video series starting with DSP and RF basics, and if you watch all 30 parts, and take the test at the end, you could get an honorary EE degree from KZbin University. Having actually graduated with a bunch of EE's, I don't think 99% of them could design a powerline modem and actually end up with something that works in the end. I'm pretty sure he's an MECE or CHEME or something - it would probably be a nearly impossible task for him to do!

[@MuradBeybalaev]

@@gorak9000 🙉Sign me up!

[@MrDanielmahaniel]

😂😂😂 the fact you had to tell us why this is on-brand, brother this is 100000000% on brand for this channel. You’re the goat❤

[@ColonelStraker]

Plot Twist: He may have figured out how to run Air Conditioning over IP. Goodbye water-cooled CPU !

[@wilswildworkshop7817]

As a handyman I say that's genius dude not sure if it's up code but the vents don't get hot enough to cause any fire risk so awesome man you did good way easier than the Conventional way for sure .

[@matthewyoung2554]

I hope you used plenum-grade ethernet cable for this. Regular riser-grade cable can function like a fuse in house fire conditions. Riser rated cable is acceptable when running ethernet through walls, since the framing (properly drilled and sealed) will act as a fire stop if the cable starts burning, preventing the fire from rapidly propagating from one part of the home to the rest. However when running through ductwork there are no natural fire stops. Worse, there may even be forced air oxygenating a burning line. To be fire code compliant, any cables run through air ducts need to be plenum rated. The plenum rating requires the wire sleeve to be made of more exotic material that does not burn like a fuse in typical house fire conditions. It's more expensive, but a lot better than dying because a small fire in the attic got an express ride through the ductwork to the main living space.

[@snozzmcberry2366]

That Rift tracking camera setup with that tv in that position... the only word that comes to mind is "brave."

[@MatteBlackSilhouette]

We use this technique all the time in telecommunications. Vacuum and an expensive bag to pull string through pipe. There are jet operations similar to what you did to blow cable into pipe over thousands of feet.

[@MalacaIce]

Nice video. There is also a similar technique to use a vacuum cleaner on one end and tie some plastic on a fishing line to thread it through smaller pipes i.e. vacant antenna pipes and such.

[@Shermanbay]

Another way of feeding Ethernet data thru AC is to use the AC power line. No kidding, no wires, no plastic bags. Ethernet over AC power just requires the appropriate transmitter/receiver pair. Speed is dependent upon several factors. That's what I thought you were talking about. I use that from my second floor to the basement. Look, Ma, no wires!

[@JustOneAsbesto]

I worked condo security for several years, and I did a lot of work with guys installing fibre optic cable in high-rises. They use a similar concept, but they do go through the walls vertically. They have a long spool of semi-stiff wire they call a "fish", and one guy will feed the fish up or downstairs, and the other guy who has the fibre optic cable will tape the cable to the fish, and the first guy retracts the fish, pulling the cable with it. Otherwise, it's just a bit of drywall work, and if you know how to splice the cable, you can get physical connections basically anywhere.

[@jonathandill3557]

Air blowing or jetting are used professionally for running optical fiber I've seen it done in 4 inch conduits between buildings. The coolest stuff is bundles of microducts where they only blow the needed fibers through the microducts. The cost savings makes sense when you're running kilometers of fiber.

[@samlaki4051]

insane. i love it mr materials science man

[@samlaki4051]

*dr forgive me

[@birdiesnbritts1391]

Loved when the bag popped out. Hilarious!

[@lettersnstuff]

make sure you use cable rated for those temperatures and for use in plenum spaces. I do low voltage electrical work, a lot of what we do is pull blue cable, we actually do this somewhat commonly for specific circumstances, well, the bag part, not the ac part, though I’ve joked about it before

[@MegaDoug1979]

I worked on critical systems at a large data center and when they'd run the big cabling under the building from the power switchgear to the generators, they'd employ the same technique. I asked one time and they showed me a shopvac and a plastic bag and that's all they needed. Then, they'd work their way up in string/rope size until they could winch the large power lines.

[@TrabberShir]

I never used the air pressure to do the routing, but a house I lived in back in the 90s had the main AC return vent in the server closet and at least three long cable runs went through the ducts.

[@gannas42]

I was completely expecting an April fool's joke video then I see this masterpiece. I did this 16 years ago in a rental house because I wasn't allowed to run through the walls. I showed them!

[@cogspace]

I thought this was going to be IP over AC power, which was compelling enough, but this is so much funnier.

[@mvadu]

I was amazed that your duct didn't have nails poking through it every few feet's (like mine) thus rupturing the bag..

[@Scott00]

Old video but I always considered this an option if i ever needed to run ethernet without cutting holes, the parachute bag idea is genius. Another solution is to use MOCA if you have coax already ran in house, they are capable of gigabit and only introduce about 1ms of latency.

[@NikiDaDude]

Speaking of catching cables behind walls/furniture and routing them through a small hole, I've used a method that works quite well. Tie a nut to the end of the cable and drag it with a strong magnet from the other end and through the hole then pull the cable out.

[@silkdragon47]

huh I totaly thought this was an april fools video, but that is all just correct! lol. I saw this technique used in a home improvement show where they used the same thing to run wires to baffles that they installed after the fact in a home that was already built so they could control airflow to individual rooms. Cool video dude!

[@geoff5623]

I used the air return vent for part of a cable run at my parents house in ~2003, dropping from the second floor down to the crawl space, where it could run back up to a utility closet on the first floor where the router was.

[@Sir_Uncle_Ned]

Aw man, I was hoping to see IP over Avian Carrier.

[@FiltyIncognito]

Threading cables through tiny holes in walls: For dropping down, use a small weight tied to a string as your pilot line. Far more predictable trajectories. You can then later tie the end of that line to your cable to pull the cable through. If the end hole isn't straight down, you can use one of those metal wire clothing hangers with a loop bent into one end to act like a fishing line to extend your reach by 2-5 feet depending your particular situation. For catching the pilot, use another hanger or two with a string tied from one end to another to create a 'net'. When you separate the ends of the hanger and stretch the string taught, the area between the hangers and string is now your 'net' and when you pull it out of the hole, the string between the hangers will pull your pilot line in with it. Tip: There are wall fixtures similar to those around a light switch or electric socket shaped specifically for cables, so instead of trying to struggle with a cable-sized hole because you don't want it to look awful when you're done, make a bigger hole and just cover it up with the wall fixture.

[@grenin1010]

I'm genuinely baffled as to why he didn't run this through the walls and use wall plates. I've done it a few times, although not for years. I remember it being surprisingly easy and looks infinitely better.

[@loser-nobody]

@@grenin1010 He briefly mentions the wall behind the TV is an exterior wall - which should be packed with insulation and ideally left intact regardless of difficulty. I'd be surprised if there isn't an interior wall elsewhere that runs through both stories, but that should also be fireblocked at the floor level anyway. It's pretty difficult to safely/legally remodel a pathway through separate stories in modern buildings with the average DIY tools.

[@zyeborm]

How are you getting that through 2 stories of noggins?

[@Android480]

I thought this was a SuckerPinch style video at first. Like you were going to encode TCP packets using air pressure or something wild like that ! Tom has spoiled me

[@AlphaPhoenixChannel]

I want to do this now but I feel like it would just end up using ultrasonic

[@DavidSommer-pw7fv]

That (the bag through the duct) is similar to a technique I saw years ago on Home Time where they used a wad of something on a string and a vacuum to "pull" thru some pipe / conduit. Then the string was used to pull wire through it.

[@michaelwilkes0]

An electrician would never do that. He would cut tons of holes in the wall and add hundreds of dollars of wall patch repair costs. That's the proper way to do it :) Although, you are actually allowed to run wires through duct work if you get plenum rated cables. There is a more accurate name for it but I cant remember it at the moment. Your way will work fine for a long time though and its just low voltage so its fairly safe. Never do that with power wires though. The heat from the heater plus the heat from current can exceed the power wire rating and make a house fire. I must say this was quite clever and well executed. I love it.

[@bgnmpc9122]

This is great idea! I'm gonna pass this to electrician on one of my projects, poor guy have to pull some extra wires for home automatics after everything is finished

[@skippy9214]

The level of bodging here is legendary, I commend your cleverness and willingness to try bird-brained schemes.

[@Decodeish1]

There's a thing called powerline internet and it's also IP over AC power, that's what I expected at first. this is way better though ;)

[@Extra_Mental]

This was a pretty good idea, but there was another option that is also IP over AC, as in AC power outlets by using a powerlan adapter

[@DanKaschel]

That would have much worse performance characteristics.

[@Extra_Mental]

@@DanKaschel i use them, they are 600Mbps, definitely good enough to stream

[@tissuepaper9962]

@@Extra_Mental your two endpoints need to be on the same circuit. Highly unlikely in this case.

[@captaindragon8179]

Fun fact: some aircraft and other things which require moving a lot of computing power in a mobile thing used to use metal ducts and radiowaves to transmit between modules. I forget what they are called but they are neat.I've seen them in old American fighter jets like the F15 and F16.

[@seanb6636]

1:05 My heart sank when I saw you had drilled down through the ceiling instead of installing a wall plate.

[@stevepoling]

Some crown molding would nicely hide the Ethernet cable running along the top of the wall. And you'd get some fun 3D trig figuring out the angles to cut the crown molding.

[@rtyuik7]

reminds me of how they suggested using Ferrets to clean out the dust from the Large Hadron Collider...just send them in with little dusters attached to them and let them worm through all the narrow crevices, before luring them back out with some sort of treat...

[@TheFarmacySeedsNetwork]

Dude! That's a brilliant takeoff on the balloon trick for conduit!

[@TimothyWhiteheadzm]

Always worth hard wiring if you can. I hope that aircon only does cooling. If it does heating, be careful.

[@rickharriss]

In the Uk I feed my Ethernet connection to my Tv via the mains cabling. I gat approx 100Mb/s with no trouble at all. If you have LED lights you can modulate them to carry data.

[@brittanylyles8285]

Electricians use a fisher cable. Its kind of like a roto Rooter in how it "snakes" through the walls and the holes you've drilled and you shouldn't have but maybe two 2x4s to drill through, if that even depending on how the house was wired, and then you just tape to the end of the fisher and do exactly what you just done that was WAY simpler than I would have went about it. Work harder, not smarter, thats my motto

[@AsymptoteInverse]

This is ridiculous and I absolutely love it.

[@dougcox835]

Sounds like something I might do. This just makes me think though about using the circular ducting as a waveguide and send a signal that way through the ducting and it would come out at every duct at once. Some experimentation would be required to see what frequencies transmit well through 8" waveguide. Each duct could have a feed probe with a repeater antenna if the signal doesn't just come out at a high enough level. This would not be a regullar WiFi but maybe with some frequency conversion it could be fed into a WiFi switch. WiFi repeaters are tricky because they both transmit and receive so it would probably need to be homemade. Your solution is the quickest and simplest. Your only issue might be condensation on the cable but I don't think even that should be an issue actually. And you have shielded cable as a side benefit. I've seen your trick done by electricians but with a vacuum cleaner. Might as well take advantage of the fan that's already there though.

[@emptyfield5250]

As a residential HVAC technician, I laughed out loud when he cut a giant hole in the supply duct. I don't know how he tried to seal it, but it's important to keep all that air pressure in the ducts to make sure it flows through and exits the registers at a velocity high enough to mix with the air in the room. Ducting systems are designed with specific diameters so that the velocity of the air remains constant as it flows through the whole system (~700ft/min), and each register should have the same velocity of air coming out. Leaky ducts cause lower (supply) static pressure and lower velocity air (and therefore less "treated" air) getting into the home, meaning less efficient heating/cooling. In addition, the fan is still trying to pull the same amount of air from the house through the return duct, but now the house is under a negative pressure (since some of the air is escaping in the attic) so the return side static pressure raises. The data plate on the furnace will say what the Max External Static Pressure is rated for, but most residential units are rated between 0.5 - 1.0" WC (or ~0.018 - 0.036 psi). Best case if the hole is sealed well he won't experience any noticeable difference, but worst case it's years of higher electric/gas bills due to longer run times, and a premature blower failure due to increased return side static pressure (and don't expect it to be covered under warranty). Edit: Just to add a better way that won't damage the system, I would remove the faceplate/cover/door for the evaporator coil (the metal box before the supply plenum that has the copper or aluminum lineset feeding into it from the outdoor condenser) and feed the balloon through the door. You could then drill a much smaller hole into the door with some kind of a wire grommet (and I'd still put mastic tape over it).

[@bastelwastel8551]

RFC1149 called, it want its acronym back 😅

[@Jeremyak]

I did a little satellite tv tech work years back and they would have had us go through an exterior wall, down the side of the house, and then come back through into a plate. Or for extra points fish the thing through the walls and the studs and all the insulation which is a lot neater but 50 times the work. I can only imagine what the home owners would have thought if I tried sailing a bag through their AC ducts LOL.

[@bodugok]

My first thought from your title was somehow somehow using the ductwork as a waveguide, your solution was way more practical.

[@caffeineau]

In early 2020, during covid I suddenly needed to cater for my work from home needs, plus my wife working from home and our son zooming into his school. So I ran an ethernet patch cable to a spare bedroom by running in to the wall through an attachment for a PIR sensor for a defunct alarm system, up into the roof space, and then into my new WFH spare bedroom through the hole in the ceiling that also supplies power to the light fixture. No AC shenanigans, but I did use a pool noodle to poke the cable into some hard to reach spots... 3 years later, that cable is still coming out of behind the light fixture, but i have since run fibre properly for the 10GBe goodness. One of these days I'll need to get back up there and pull the old ethernet cable out.

[@sstorholm]

That’s quite clever actually, the reverse of the classic vacuum cleaner trick used for pulling cable in conduits. However, that flat Ethernet cable is horrible, I’ve never seen one that has managed to actually pass standard tests.

[@anthonydavidson6139]

This is essentially the same method we use as electricians to get wire through pipes. Way to think out of the box. It’s not quite as hard to get that wire down your wall though as you might think. Let me explain. Drill a hole through your header in the attic. Cut a small square hole in the Sheetrock in the room below your header hole by the floor. Drill a small hole through your flooring and into the lower floor wall and boom you’re where you need to be. The only repair you need to do is replace the square sheet rock you cut out. If you’re having trouble fishing the wire down the wall the method I prefer is similar to the method you used except I use a nut on a string and a very powerful magnet.

[@birdiesnbritts1391]

Wouldn’t the insulation get in the way?

[@anthonydavidson6139]

@@birdiesnbritts1391 normally insulation is only on external walls. Typically you would choose an internal wall to do this. If you had to do an external wall with insulation then yeah it’s harder, but still not impossible you need to try to fish your line between the paper back and the sheet rock though

[@the_craft_gamer268]

Now you can say you have actively cooled ethernet

[@snowkracker]

Freakin brilliant. Nice job.

[@StealthTheUnknown]

Congratulations, you understand some of what makes a home electrician’s job hard. Now run that wire 12 times to 12 different circuits around the home, through the walls, with no exposed wires 😬

[@DancingRain]

I first saw IPoAC, and thought "Internet Protocol over Alternating Current", and thought you'd be sending IP packets over your 120V house wiring :P For the folks who insist that everyone has to give them metric units... They can use a unit converter, just like we have to do here in the US, when European science content gives us ONLY metric and no conversion. It's nice to have things presented once in a while in units that I grew up with, and intuitively grasp.

[@baganatube]

When I saw the title (and the first minute), I thought you modulated the power line to get an IP network. :D

[@Kinkajou1015]

I clicked this expecting IPoAC (Internet Protocol over Avian Carriers) not IPoCCS (Internet Protocol over Climate Control Systems). Also, nice Harris Teeter bag. From 5 dollar sushi Friday? :P

[@Anodoin]

Love the idea. I have a split system, so... I'd only get so far but hey, if someone already ran "chases" for you why not?

[@familyguy0398]

Powerline Networking is also a worthy upgrade vs WiFi for hard to reach spaces. It's not as reliable as a straight ethernet connection but is extremely easy to set up and will work between any areas of the house as long as they are all on the same panel.

[@johndeaux8815]

Awesome upgrade, I’ve been stuck using IPoAC V1.0 (Internet Protocol over Avian Carriers) and they’ve been getting rabies.

[@wazzup105]

Published on just in time for April first... excellent !!

[@Flojer0]

Former duct cleaner here to say that cables in ducts mean no beater brushes can ever clean them again. Not a big deal for most, but anyone who needs duct cleaning will have options limited

[@cho4d]

they do internet over power lines you know. little adapter doohikey plugs in to the mains electric circuit and throws some 1s and 0s around. it works surprisingly well! very stable in my experience, and fast enough for most things

[@redlancer7263]

It's crazy how similar you and Engineering Explained sound and speak

[@laranjajefessor]

I was deceived into thinking it was going to be a video creating a protocol for communication

[@vedritmathias9193]

I thought you were going to use one of those horrific contraptions that try to feed internet over your home Alternating Current

[@Kinnikinnick]

Same here! Imagine my confusion when he starts talking about ductwork and conditioning.

[@maxritter7868]

I know the saying goes "It's not stupid if it works" but I simply love things that are *really* stupid but work surprisingly well.

[@isaiahhiggins]

I thought it was going to be one of those ethernet over mains voltage devices, but this is even even whackier!