iRacing Has a Problem (and I'm part of it)

[@NeverEvenRaced]

I really appreciate the constructive conversation in the comments. That was really the goal to encourage the type of conversations people should have to improve the sim racing community. Lessons learned!

[@es14hellothere]

I think defo your reaction to the incidents, as you said yourself, defo wasn't great, however the shameless "defending" that occurs often when a faster car tries to pass has become way to common. I started up iRacing 9 days ago, and have since completed roughly 15 races. In one Formula Vee race at Lime Rock Park, I had an amazing fight with someone, passing each lap, and when the final lap arrived, I sat behind in order to set up a slipstream pass on the last lap. They (naturally) pulled off the racing line to try and let me through, so they would have the tow across the line. I kept position, and coming round the final corner, they full lifted off, forcing me to back off and ruining what was a fun battle with a bit of a block at the end. My experience in multiclass at Oulton Park was surprisingly clean for the most part, however GT4s at Sebring have been a bit of a nightmare. Full send into people in T1 happens almost every race (SOF has been roughly 1800), leaving multiple people out of contention (oh and this is sends from front running cars too). I am certainly not completely innocent from indicent - in an attempt to look down the inside of another car at T7 hairpin, I cut across a car which was trying to pass me, and spun myself out as a result. While the incident impacted me much more, I had caused it. Depsite a bit of rage to myself, I watched the replay and saw I was at fault, so apologised to the driver. Yet many others in that race were driving others onto the grass, on the straights, and I also got spun up front due to another car drifting over into my car, despite the fact that I was ahead. Unfortunately, I have to admit I don't see this changing much - while, as you say, it is just a video game at the end of the day, in order to have fun respect must be in place, which seems to be missing a lot in society. Even at my local kart track, some regulars load others into corners and are happy to use others to get round corners. I value the clean battles which are respectful, but this is happening less and less. I will definitely continue with iRacing, but I agree that respect and accountability are two traits which, to many, are not important. So to anyone reading this (and sorry its a long comment, keep being respectful to others - it can make someone's day.

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@es14hellothere you have the right idea and attitude!

[@LukeVesty]

Can I say, respectfully, that while I agree his initial block was dirty you were almost entirely to blame for everything that followed. I kinda liked your late move down the inside of T5 but it was high risk, aggressive and very late for a low strength of field - there's a chance the guy didn't even know you were as close as you were or had little time to react. At the apex you rubbed doors because you were so late with the move and then on the exit you under steered into him quite severely. This would have lit a fire under him and it's where things really started to go sour. At the next turn your move was again very late - too late I would argue - and from too far back resulting in contact as no part of your car had any overlap. You were then too close at the cork screw which resulted in more light (possible netcode) contact, and then at the final turn you point blank murdered him with a wild lunge and then left him no room to rejoin. I don't think it's fair to assume he deliberately wrecked you. I think he was simply desperate to rejoin the track and was given nowhere to go. So to answer the question - "how do you overtake someone who won't let you pass?" The answer is you don't. If you think they're too dirty and too dangerous to race with you should just tuck in behind and either wait for a mistake, or settle with finishing behind them. The result of this is you'll gain more iRating and SR which, over time, will mean you race in higher splits with cleaner drivers. You've recognised that you were part of the problem so credit to you for having the self awareness and honesty to say it. But if you want to progress, keep it cool and clean. Spinning out from contact just left you with little to show for your clear pace advantage.

[@Real28]

Absolutely correct. And this happens IRL when a faster driver cannot get past a slower driver and you just have to take your medicine and finish behind them. Some people are just "on it" defending, even if that means they are being dirty. It isn't worth a ton of contact.

[@epultimast]

100% agree. Aside from his first dirty last second block, it looked like really tough but still kinda fair racing to me - up until you Verstappen’ed him into the last corner. I know how it can be frustrating being held up by the car in front, when you’re obviously faster but at the same time, that is what racing is about. Usually it pays off more to be cool, calm, cunning and collected than letting raging emotions take over. In the end, we’re all human, though. So props to you for your transparency and this analysis.

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@LukeVesty honestly really appreciate your perspective and ultimately we ended up on the same page after I looked over it all!

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@epultimast thanks! and yes, I felt for the most part really frustrated he just took me out because I thought we could have a really aggressive but mostly clean fight to the finish.

[@LukeVesty]

You have speed. If you can stay out of trouble you'll leave guys like that behind and never have to bother with them again! 😁 ​@@NeverEvenRaced

[@smacmcarthur]

Regardless of any opinions on the incident this a worthy conversation to have.

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@smacmcarthur glad we agree!

[@NWA_1919]

Best thing to do for racing is take your ego out of it and focus up. You are going to face people who push over the limit, and there's ways to deal with it that don't involve rear ending the other guy. Racecraft takes time to master. And sometimes should stop to think if it's worth it to risk a 99% certain crash for 1 position in a sprint race.

[@Benjamin-rs3mg]

This is something we all deal with. Its really hard to be patient on track as we all know, we keep on learning, see you on track!

[@Nutcracker33]

the first block was iffy, but i dont think he door slammed you on the exit of the left hander, of course i cant see his input, but from the video, it looks like he was going straight, and its just iracing contact physics that you 2 got "glued" together. Also, the kink was never a smart place to pass, and you placed yourself at his rear quarter, what was he supposed to do? lol

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@Nutcracker33 definitely some netcode going on I’m in America and he was in Europe.

[@TheAdamFormula]

Without getting into whos fault it, what I am impressed with is that your holding your hands up to being part of the problem. We all make mistakes and its important we can own them and learn from it. Also great save early on in the corkscrew

[@Niki_R188]

Rule number one...never give in and retaliate on a dirty driver...find a clean way..elbows out is fine and yes he was blocking you in a not cool way..just remember to keep your cool and work the problem..at the end you only lost positions,think of it this way..

[@NeverEvenRaced]

If I only uploaded stuff that made me look good, I'd be telling quite the lie.

[@Ash-um8er]

1:45 also im gonna guess you dont have triple monitors or else you would have seen this coming. would definitely recommend having triples

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@Ash-um8er you are correct! I have debated triples. I currently play on a single curved on an arm I can pull down right behind my wheelbase.

[@jimgrimes8342]

I am a rookie. I was raised on a short track oval and tempers flare quick. Good observations.

[@vangeeson]

Use their behavior for your overtake. You did the right thing to do fake overtakes to unsettle them. All that blocking and swerving has its cost after 2 laps max. You will either get the better line sooner or later, or they will mess up their next straight/corner. And sometimes, they will block a little too late and pit themselves.. you can take that into your calculations as well.

[@tru-fab5023]

it is a simple fix. when we raced in real life if you got your nose to the door on the inside you had position, and the other car was beat. if you wrecked the car that had position a caution would be called field frozen and he had to go to rear as a penalty.

[@STT_SimRacing]

I know @SuellioAlmeida has a few good videos on making moves. I noticed a couple of times where you stuck your nose out a bit prematurely, then on the "door slam" one, you actually turn in too sharp, too soon. If you stay a bit closer to his door in the braking zone and delay turn in a little, you could carry more speed and completely close the door on exit, then use the pace to run away with it. That said, I do applaud your ability to look back on what you did wrong in regards to emotions. It can be hard to critique yourself sometimes, but I think if we all spent more time on self-crit, we'd all be better drivers.

[@E92Harold]

I'll be honest this just looks like a typical race with inexperienced field, I remember similar things happening to me in rookies several months ago. I don't see stuff like this happening at all anymore. 90% of my IMSA races are clean but hard these days at around ~3k iR. Maybe iRacing/sim racing has a problem, but I think it's just way more prevalent in the more inexperienced lobbies. And to be frank, I think this entire specific situation is on you... which we've all been guilty of once or twice I'm sure. His first block was "rude" but not really wrong, and to be honest doesn't even benefit him in the long run. The second incident seemed like door bashing netcode after an optimistic lunge. Then it seems ego got the best of you (like all of us sometimes) and you decided to send it everywhere for no reason.

[@lukefisher328]

You let this guy control you. Keep a cool head and wait for him to make a mistake, no need to make silly moves. At these lower irating races people are some what incompetent sometimes it’s intentional sometimes its just lack of awareness. Just because you’re faster than somebody does not mean you will place higher than them. Sometimes you either have to wait for them to f up an and if that doesn’t happen well that’s just how it goes, do a better job of putting them under pressure / getting better exits to get along side

[@Brooker0013]

Sim racing in general has a problem with people wrecking other drivers then reporting them, and dishonest or knowledgeable stewards. Also people who treat sims like an arcade game and tell those that treat it as a sim that they take it to seriously. They don't understand how much time some people put in.✌🏼

[@rarewhiteape]

First rule of everything: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. But let's be generous here and replace 'stupidity' for inexperience. I say this because almost everyone you encounter on iRacing is an amateur who does this for fun or whatever, and you might only end up in a split with a professional real-life racer once in 100 races. So please be more accepting of other's mistakes, even if it is blocking. iRacing's protest system is more designed to help educate people like Mr Mercedes than it is for punishment, so if you sent a report in, the guys in the protest review team would have sent him an email letting him know that was wrong and to be more fair next time. If the driver repeats the behaviour then the next time it is reported, it would escalate. If you feel the result is too lenient then maybe it was their first time, who knows? Next, I think you had about 50 chances to pass the guy cleanly but never took advantage of them. A lot of drivers pay too much attention in getting into the corners as hard as possible, but not enough attention to getting out of the corner as smoothly and quickly as possible. It feels like you're driving it in really deeply and trying to hit the apex however you can, and this kills your exit speed. It's evident in the clips from before the nasty block, so it's not something related to driving with a bad temper. I think if you worked on smoothing out your corner entry and finding a better line to increase corner exit speed, that there would be no way that Mr Mercedes (or many other drivers) would have a chance against you if you were able to haul past them on a lot of the straight bits multiple times per lap. I would not even think about attempting a pass on someone unless I am right up alongside them, and doing that pretty much removes any potential arguments about who's corner it was. Good exit speed might be your best weapon in this regard. Maybe dial the aggression back a bit and pretend you're driving Miss Daisy for good lap times or don't want to spill your beer out of the can in the cup holder. Even if you disregard this post, I'd say that if you keep racing for a year and come back to re-watch this video you'd see where your own mistakes were being made. Best of luck :)

[@Ash-um8er]

95% of crashes/incidents in low SOF lobbies on iRacing stem from someones ego either being too large or hurt, once you get to 2k+ the racing standards are better

[@karlallen6055]

He was definitely blocking, the white car clearly had the same problem. Unless they make a big mistake it's almost impossible to get past these guys, you just need to move on to the next race. Also he didn't wreck you at the end, you basically rotated him into yourself.

[@atoysruskid79]

fwiw, i have also had issues with that guy.

[@DilynHorton]

At 10:50 you literally doxxed the guy. Shows clear as day that car number #23 was Filip Schon from CZ.

[@omegadraq2039]

Just wondering. What is your FOV settings?

[@CruzinWCruz81]

that's why I have not been on iracing for quite some time it has changed since 2017 which was the last time I raced lol

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@CruzinWCruz81 when it’s good, it’s some of the best. When it’s stuff like this it’s really discouraging.

[@AndrewGeierMelons]

It doesn't help that GT4s are some of the easiest to drive cars, so, everyone thinks that they are really doing good even when maybe they're not. They lull you into a false sense of security.

[@bebussound7991]

I will never purchase anything iRacing for this reason lmao

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@bebussound7991 it’s a money pit bad behavior aside.

[@Django45]

how you pass a dirty driver is to feign him out so hard into a reactive mistake, that you just sail on by when he blows the corner. Most important is to keep cool in this situation despite him being dirty a$$hole. Hard to do, I admit, but it can be learned. Driving in emotionally active way is a road to disaster. you compromise your lines, your decision making and your outcomes. You quite simply just lose while driving triggered. Work the dirty driver as a problem to work around, not an enemy to exterminate.

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@Django45 I really thought I had him on the inside of turn 5 after setting it up with a fake look inside there earlier. Lessons learned. I am still a very noob road racer compared to oval.

[@SpellracecarBackwards]

can't u just report bad behavior on iracing and get him a warning?

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@SpellracecarBackwards I did, but the protest system is very easily abused. Actually this was the first time I felt inclined to protest somebody.

[@aCoolHHChannel]

They do nothing, they just max disqualified him from the race and end of the story..

[@justinwitt6364]

shoulda just pushed him wide after the first block would have put him on the marbles and really slow for the next hairpin where you can just watch the mirror for his baby rage punt attempt to dodge it and continue with your race, but also this is why i quit iracing and acc and moved to le mans ultimate as the community is significantly better and races respectfully and i dont have to deal with client bs i can load the game and just hop into a lobby i hate iracing's split client setup and acc's community is worse than iracing

[@allyhaze8300]

I will come to you aid bud. Laguna is a hard track to pass. 0.1 doesnt mean the slipstream will help. Straights not long enough. If we are big boys then we know that a wee dive bomb is needed. You were on his rear for laps. Room was only given to you when you got the pit crew call. Mr merc was playing those rules. So yield or we crash logic. So YOU need to get better. Use these moments to add to skill level. It's like poker. This guy has put you in a pass or crash situation. Race the driver not the track. Accept this is the reality. (So fkn hard) this is your finishing position. Now battle that bitch. Let me pass or we CRASH. Now you have the his mindset. Most important sr ir must b forgotten at these moments. Just go for it and have fun about it. See how far you can push mr merc. That's the game. It's a shame. Especially when you know you can catch the cars ahead and your watchin them disappear. It's not a iracing thing I would say. It's a this ain't real we ain't gona die so theres no fear. Sim racing can only sim so much. We must do our part. Sad some dont get it. But I didnt. It's some thing you learn. Driver etiquette . Fair battles till the end is what it's about. Way more fun than a.lonely race at the front.

[@Dave062YT]

Apart from the very end when you both lost the plot it was all him being a tool .Shame on him .

[@jeromemartin2380]

so first i dont want to be mean, not my goal but i think you are a big part of the problem, did he block you ? yes but after that 8:18 he did closed a bit too much but remember you are at average ir and i think it was a just mistake from him 8:22 you are pushing him on the edge of the track so i dont see what the guys could do beside pushing you left and let be honest : i think deep down you kinda enjoyed in the moment the dirty fight 9:00 you are pushing him off the track, mistake happen thats fine but 9:05 you dont let enough space to the guys you pushed off track to rejoin, not very nice after that you pit maneuver yourself on him and let be honest he probably was like "well too bad for you", and if you look at his input hes mostly straight 10:40 im sorry but beside your first attempts there i didnt see a clean attempts 13:17 sure there is man, stay behind him, build pressure, they are focused on the mirror they will miss a braking point, you go inside and voila also there is a lot of improvement on your lap time just by just doing some theorical : not using all the track, missing braking point, missing the apex, not using brake to rotate the car. do more theoric, practice your lap time, get better and youll be over them bully dont make it to university ;) ill put some video for you bellow kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZjQmHmZnqmners kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXrPZpVulJWblZo driver61.com/uni/braking/ and last remember who you are, do you get tilted for every small shit that happen irl ? ;) happy racing

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@jeromemartin2380 this comment section has been constructive I appreciate you keeping it that way! Ultimately, I am an inexperienced road racer. I should have let him back on the track in the final corner and continued the fight to keep it brief. Too hot headed in this one!

[@GandLRacing]

Unfortunately, this is what tends to happen at his level in iRacing. I mean, it exists everywhere but at the iRating that the silver car is sitting at, they clearly aren't looking to act in a professional manner. As you stated during your video, "It's a video game" and drivers at this level play as if that's all it is. I know you said you weren't going to dox this guy but it's not hard to find info on iRacing especially when your info is on display, sorry for that. Take my advice for what it is, a novice giving advice to another aspiring novice. Give people room for now and build iRating. Work on your times in order to Qual ahead of people like this and get away from the 1000 iRating drivers. The closer I get to the 2000+ the more seriously drivers take the competition.

[@NeverEvenRaced]

not much you can do to stop someone from finding public information if they want to especially with knowledge of the sim.

[@GandLRacing]

@@NeverEvenRaced hard to help my curiosity. Every time I see something like this, I wonder if it lines up with my, "Inexperience == @sshole" theory.

[@Lucavon33]

If I may give you a tip, it's best to stay with the Rookie MX5 Cup for now.

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@Lucavon33 this is one of those “if the shoe fits wear it” insults, and I think I’m gonna take your advice. You might have just helped me make my next video.

[@m4stru]

RACING CRASH! he is defending himself, he can block your path, he can change direction once and choose a trajectory given that he is in front and has to defend himself... you have to lead him to a mistake, the movement you made to make him close the outside was the right move , 11:30 your problem is that you locked him out, you came out better, you have the inside, avoid running into him! because it was you he was practically on the curb... the entry you made at the last corner doesn't make any sense! totally unsportsmanlike... did he turn you around to get back on track? unlucky for sure but on the other hand almost right, it's you who sent him out and he must be able to get back in, you who pushed him out didn't want to leave him the space to get back in, it's clear that you continued on the curb even if you could have let him space

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@m4stru I did leave him no space to get back on track after the last corner dive, not on purpose. but still the same thing. You could be right, cause I said it myself “do you expect me to lift” after racing how we were. i know he felt the exact same way. Lessons learned.

[@37jamiedee]

Ye it sucks U were the faster car,should of let u past

[@braveman4665]

not saying what he did is alright but you passed because you crashed into him. you should've give the place back. you are the one abusing report system because what you did is not protestable

[@iamwision]

Dude intentionally blocked him meaning he reacted to him when he wanted to pass, which is not allowed. You are allowed to do one defensive move and that is it, not a reaction move, defensive move, once you choose your line that is it. Going into the left hander he was alongside the merc and dude left him no space. You have to leave minimum a cars width and he did not do that, he rode the red curb and lost time where merc gained advantage and stayed in front. As for the last lunge, dude has a car behind him that he blocked and won't let pass cleanly, in that corner he goes wide as possible and leaving hugee amount of space open leading to the lunge. Not defending the green car, that was not a move to be done but the merc fully deserved what he got and he should have let the green car take the place. Be able to take what you f*****g serve. Dude in the merc is obviously an idiot and his ego can't handle faster drivers and being overtaken. That wasn't even a contest, even with proper defending green car would have passed easily. These kind of guys do not belong in a lobby and on a virtual race track. You trying to defend this idiot and not getting the point is also part of the problem why these people can do whatever the f**k they want in the simracing community. This was absolutely protestable and I would do anything to get this f*****g idiot banned. These kind of idiots ruin peoples races and fun and we have to do better and try to make the simraicng community a better place which means judging this kind of driving an not allowing these idiots to get away with it. Tomorrow he is going to do it to someone else. Why should clean racers have their races ruined by these kinda drivers and get away with it? Please..

[@NeverEvenRaced]

@@braveman4665 you are right and I would have expected him to report me as well. Honestly, I’m a bit of a noob road racer, and at times have done just that - just given the position back after a mistake. I honestly hit him way harder than it seemed like I was going to. So lesson learned, I could have just given him the position and picked back up the fight. (Misunderstood your reply initially)

[@iPuls3]

Lead car caused that by forcing him into contact with dirty blocking, 100% on the lead car there.