Irish button accordion - what instrument should a beginner choose?

[@emmanuelpariselle8316]

nice, usefull and very clear, bravo!

[@redwolf7929]

I think it's interesting how in Australia Alot of our traditional music derives from irish or celtic music but 95% of the old 2nd hand boxes you find are d-g or g-c etc.Irish tuned boxes are overall very few and are priced likewise.

[@Stiamh]

I hear you. Believe or not, the situation is pretty similar in Québec where I live - semitone-tuned boxes are very hard to find. But admittedly dealers in the US and in Europe are a little closer to us than they are to you. 40 years ago I played in an Irish band in Melbourne (I was a fiddler at the time) with a great box player, Simon Melia (RIP). The only instruments he could find to buy in the country were D/G. But he developed a cracking Irish style on that system.

[@RAHilliard]

Thank you very much for your series of tutorials. I am a beginner box player (having played fiddle for years) and love the simple, straight forward approach focused on the C#/D box. In particular, I love your video about bass notes on box. For those of us who have no background in music theory, can you either do some videos about bass notes/chords or point us to some online resources that would educate us about accompaniment chord choices for traditional Irish tunes?

[@Stiamh]

Hi Robert! Glad you find the videos useful. The subject of bass accompaniment and harmony generally is a big one, but I will try to make at least an introductory video to give you a few ideas for how to find the right chords in one or two keys at least. A good idea, thank you! There must be lots of resources available on the web, but I think the first place to start is to learn the notes on your keyboard - i.e. where to find every note in the scale of D as a starter. And in all octaves! Maybe you know this already. In that case, the next step is to learn what notes make up the main chords we will use, e.g. the chord of D major (major triad) consists of D, F#, and A, and so on. Once you have that under your belt, finding the right chords becomes much easier. If that is too much theory, I'll try to show how you can find the right chords without knowing all that stuff. You can get a good start without any theory, but it will only take you so far... :)

[@Stiamh]

Hi Robert - let me know if this helps. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJeTl2WYpclqjLc

[@SuperDuperJo]

This is incredibly helpful! Thank you!

[@dewsbury89]

Just to add to what you said about the lack of a C major chord on the C#D box- I find the lack of a Cmajor chord to be a bit restrictive but also make regular use of the B/F#... So the solution I went for with my old hohner was to keep the B/F# bass notes, and change just the chord bass button - I had this changed to a C on the pull, and a Bminor chord on the push (which is also quite useful). It's a shame to lose the Bm chord, but I'd say that on the whole I found it to be an improvement as I made much more regular use of the C chord that I did the Bm. Not a solution for everyone I'm sure! But I found it worked well. Thanks for the informative vids too, btw Stiamh!

[@Stiamh]

An interesting and very creative solution, Robin, I like it. On one of my Double-Rays I had an extra bass button added (by the resourceful Mike Rowbotham), so I have a 9-bass box, with F/C bass notes down at the bottom. What we really need are 10 basses!

[@dewsbury89]

@@Stiamh I imagine it's useful to have an F note on the bass side as well. Having more basses can definitely make what you're able to play more interesting. Having said that, I tend to prefer listening to players with a 'limited' bass system, rather than those with say a 12 bass button box- I like hearing the creative ways people make use of their basses to make nice music- particularly with players like Tony Hall, Jackie Daly (although there's plenty more...)

[@jimsmithbikes]

Hi, greetings from Australia. Which is the second part video on your thoughts on one row button accordions? I'm very new to this and there are plenty of Hohner one row accordions for sale here in Australia, to tempt me as my first purchase, as they seem easier to use to try my hand at basic Irish jigs.

[@Stiamh]

Hi Dimitri. I did make a second video (it's here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZXOk2elbLdmY7M) but I didn't end up talking about one-row boxes in it. Yes, they would be a good place to start with basic Irish tunes. The best key would be D. You can play a lot of the repertoire on them. Quite a few of the tunes in my tutorial videos are playable on a one-row. Look for videos on KZbin of players like Johnny Connolly, or Bobby Gardiner playing with Emma Corbett, to get an idea of what can be done with them. Hope this helps!

[@jimsmithbikes]

@@Stiamh Thanks for your reply, very informative, and Ill check out the players you mentioned, cheers mate. One quick question, are the boxes marked with the key or do you have to work that out yourself when you actually play it.

[@jeffhildreth9244]

@@jimsmithbikes The third button down on the push will give you the key. Or look on the bottom of the keyboard ( turn it upside down) and the key will be stamped with a letter on the bottom of the key board. Or tjhe key may be stamped on the bass strap at the bottom. Get a 1950s or 1960s Hohner HA114 in D.

[@pauwerwoman1247]

Hello, thanks for the info, but I have a 23 button Serenellini in CF, which is a Dutch thing 🤔is it possible to change this to DG ? And, do you know of an easy way to translate DG music into CF with numbers for finger placing? 😊

[@Stiamh]

You could change your CF accordion to DG but I would advise against it. It is not a good idea to tune reeds up by a whole tone. A semitone is about the limit, I am told. More and the reeds will be weakened or ruined. Fitting a set of DG reeds would be possible but expensive. I think you would do better just to buy a DG box and possibly sell your CF. You will get good answers to this question, and your other question about music tablature, in the forums at melodeon.net. Mind you few British players seem to use tablature. It's more of a thing in France.

[@AdeebaZamaan]

I always swore I'd never try to play accordion or melodeon or concertina because I can't make out their logics. I'm happy with a whistle or recorder, I understand piano even though I can't play it, I play a few chords on guitar and have a vague sense of the relation of notes to layout, but on in-out instruments I'm completely lost. Then someone dumps an ancient Hohner Corona del Sol into my lap. Some of the bass buttons stick and I "repaired" some holes in corners of the bellows with bra tape, but here I am with this instrument. I bought a book, I plastered foil stars on the Gs--I'm still confused. There's something about the three-row structure my fingers really like if I can turn off my mind, but Tex-Mex music is not my favorite. I have a long love of Irish music and if I were shopping for a box, I'd get the smallest B/C box I could find (I have an app for one, but can't FEEL the push-pull as I would on a real box). What would you advise? Try to learn to play Irish music on it, and if I can, get it repaired? Sell it on eBay? Take it to recycling? I'm intimidated, but intrigued.

[@Stiamh]

Hello. Uh.... Hmm. [scratches head]. First off, I would say that as far as logic is concerned, a B/C has its own, and if you've learned any other system, it's pretty confusing. If you start with a B/C, perhaps less so. I have to tell you I have seen a lot of people take up the B/C and not last very long. You really have to make a commitment to the instrument and put some serious practice time in, otherwise frustration is guaranteed. As for what you should do with your Hohner... it all depends what the tuning is, and what state of repair it is in. Getting an ancient box repaired professionally can be expensive, sometimes very expensive, especially if the wax and valves are shot, it's out of tune, and the bellows are buggered. So don't take it to a professional unless you know you want to keep it. If the tuning is in ADG, you could use for Irish music. If it's GCF or anything else, it might be worth starting to look for that B/C of your dreams. Another possibility is that you just toy around with what you have it to discover whether your brain can in fact deal with the push-pull business. If not, then you could save yourself a lot of money by not repairing this one and not buying another! If you want more opinions, and possibly dozens of opinions, ask your question on the forums at melodeon.net.

[@AdeebaZamaan]

​@@Stiamh The Corona del Sol is always, I think, a GCF, and mine couldn't get worth much less $$$, unless it has some value as an antique. It's also very heavy, and I'm small. Even a new GCF costs less than a B/C box, whose logic is also incomprehensible to me, but at least KZbin contains some lessons on how to play Irish on a B/C--I've found only ONE Irish tune on a GCF, and it's played by a French gentleman. Thanks to your advice, I think for now I'll just play with the Hohner as is to see if I can figure it out. Maybe I can rent a B/C at some point and see what it can do. I'm pretty invested in the whistle and the guitar right now anyway, and getting better at THEM makes more sense, as I'm hardly going to follow in Joe Burke's footsteps at my age. But I'm really obsessed by the theory of it, the math of it maybe, because I hate to hold a tool and not understand it.

[@uhoh007]

In the states right now the Hohner Panther is very popular. How would that be for playing Irish music?

[@Stiamh]

Well, you can play Irish music on any system of diatonic accordion, and play it well. But if you want to play it with other people, other melody players that is, you need to be able to play it in the usual keys. If the Panther is available in ADG, you'd be fine. GCF, not fine. See my reply to MISTELEO above.

[@e.miller8943]

I think the Hohner Panther only comes in GCF. It works well for Tex-Mex music and is made in great quantity so that the price is relatively low for the quality.

[@jeffhildreth9244]

Unsuitable.

[@uhoh007]

@@jeffhildreth9244 My Panther has a Nuage now, a complimentary pair. Not that I can do them justice.

[@Myfiddles]

I just pick up a Hohner Erica 2 row G C.I'm learning to play a few tunes that I play on my harmonica and find the harmonica experience helps a lot. I do however still run into the same problem with sharps and flats. I find a lot of tunes I can't play without changing the tune to suit the available notes. I find I can sometimes pick up the missing notes on the other row, and that helps for some tunes.I am wondering if I had a 3 row box would it help even more? Leigh

[@Stiamh]

Hi Leigh. You have a few choices... a 2-row box in D/G would be a much better option than G/C, and would allow you to play a big chunk of the Irish traditional repertoire. If you wanted a 3-row, then ADG would give you a few more options still. Or you could get a C#/D/G or a 2½ row D/G with a half-row of accidentals. But the great majority of Irish box players prefer the B/C system, and nearly all of the rest choose C#/D, so those are what I recommend here. With those systems you can go small and compact - and never be stuck for an accidental.

[@Myfiddles]

Thanks for the information.I spent a lot of time searching and didn't get nearly as much information as you just provided in a few lines.Now I need to go shopping! Leigh

[@allisonowens8516]

thank you!!

[@Stiamh]

You are most welcome, Allison. There is a lot more I could have said about other tunings or other options, but I think people should keep things simple when they are starting out!

[@zekehutchison5672]

I am enjoying the videos. Can you tell me what the notes are in the half row on your Serenellini C#/D ? Is there a standard layout for the half row on C#/D? Thank you!

[@Stiamh]

Hi Zeke. Glad you like the clips. I don't know if there is a standard layout - when I ordered that accordion from the makers I specified a layout copied from a B/C, just moved up a tone. So I have (starting from the chin end, push/pull) E/F, G/G#, B/A, E/D. I practically never use them because I want to stick to standard C#/D fingerings and I wouldn't get another 2½-row box. I just wanted 12 basses! Nice for the r-h chords though.

[@zekehutchison5672]

Thank you so much!!

[@mandosandradios]

excellent, orgaized presentation

[@jeanrheaume6483]

Bonjour, Je débute et pratique sur un petit hohner D, mais viens juste d’acheter le hohner morgn D/G, le seul que j’ai pu trouver u québec et meme au Canada. Éventuellement j’aimerais bien me procurer un C#/D 23 boutons. Suis correct de penser que la seule solution est de faire venir de UK ou USA ou Allemagne?

[@jeanrheaume6483]

J’ai oublié de préciser, je suis à Montréal... et excusez les fautes de frappes :=(

[@Stiamh]

Bonjour Jean, effectivement, comme il n'y a pratiquement pas de demande pour les système do#/ré au Québec, vous n'en trouverez pas dans les magasins. Oui vous pouvez en commander un au R-U, aux É-U ou en Europe (n'oubliez pas la France), mais je crois que ça vaudrait la peine de placer une annonce "recherche" à quelques endroits stratégiques. Communiquez avec moi en laissant un message privé sur mon canal KZbin et je vous donnerai des pistes.

[@jmmorin3746]

Français SVP

[@Stiamh]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/noe0iaxvnZt4qZY

[@jeffhildreth9244]

Click on settings then follow the instructions to the language of your choice on CC Then clic on setting and follow the instructions.